Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 12 May 2014, 19:54:17
For information about this project, see the thread over here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58138.0
It was pointed out to me in the main project thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58138.0)for these controllers that the `Making Stuff Together' forum isn't for anything commercial. So we'll use this thread for any orders of fully-assembled/tested controllers.
It's worth reiterating this is an open-source project; there are completely open schematics/PCBs/firmware available here (http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb). Precompiled hex files, along with ready-to-order PCBs on OSHPark (http://oshpark.com/profiles/xwhatsit) mean that if you're OK with surface-mount soldering you can build these yourself—you don't need some Kiwi with a toaster oven to make these for you.
However, if you are interested in having something fully assembled and tested, this is the thread for you. Hopefully by batching a few orders together I can reduce lead times, and in theory may even be able to effect a small price reduction if there's enough of them.
Pricing/Availability
As mentioned above, these are open-source. If you have a soldering iron and flux, consider building your own! Don't be put off the surface mount soldering, several people (some with no previous surface-mount experience) have now built their own.
However if you're not into picking up resistors with tweezers, I can build one for you and pre-program and test it first. I have a toaster reflow oven that makes this straightforward for me, and at any given point I'm likely to have a large number of the components on hand. Just bear in mind I'm in New Zealand; if I'm out of PCBs, an order from OSHPark takes a few weeks to get to me, even before I mail the finished controller to you.
Here's my spreadsheet of bill-of-materials with pricing in NZ$:
Code: [Select]
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Sheet 1: Beamspring-USB
Id Designator Package Quantity Designation Price Total
1 CON1 USB_MINI_B 1 USB-MINI-B $1.42 $1.42
2 U2 tsot-6 1 DAC101S101 $3.16 $3.16
3 U1 TQFP32 1 ATMEGA32U2 $7.00 $7.00
6 U6 so-14 1 LM339A $0.48 $0.48
7 C3,C4 SM0805 2 22pF $0.01 $0.02
8 C10,C9,C8,C11,C6,C7,C2,C12 SM0805 8 0.1uF $0.01 $0.08
9 R4 SM0805 1 4.7K $0.01 $0.01
10 R3,R17 SM0805 2 20K $0.01 $0.02
11 R1,R16,R2 SM0805 3 10K $0.01 $0.03
12 C1 SM0805 1 1uF $0.02 $0.02
13 R15 SM0805 1 47K $0.01 $0.01
14 C5 SM0805 1 4.7uF $0.02 $0.02
15 R6,R5 SM0805 2 22R $0.01 $0.03
16 RP2 RPACK_1206 1 100K 1% $0.08 $0.08
17 RP1 RPACK_1206 1 10K 5% $0.01 $0.01
18 X1 HC49US 1 16MHz $0.60 $0.60
19 U3,U5,U4 DHVQFN16 3 74AHC595 $0.60 $1.80
20 P1 805_396_30x2_SM 1 EDGE_30X2 $3.00 $3.00
21 P2 pin_array_3x2 1 CONN_3X2 $0.45 $0.45
Ground wire + crimp 1 $0.25 $0.25
PCB 1 $10.04 $10.04
Total $28.52
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Sheet 2: Beamspring-Displaywriter-USB
Id Designator Package Quantity Designation Price Total
2 CON1 USB_MINI_B 1 USB-MINI-B $1.42 $1.42
3 U2 tsot-6 1 DAC101S101 $3.16 $3.16
4 U1 TQFP32 1 ATMEGA32U2 $7.00 $7.00
6 U3,U4 so-14 2 LM339A $0.48 $0.96
7 R3,R6 SM0805 2 20K $0.01 $0.02
8 C9,C10,C7,C12,C11,C8,C6,C4 SM0805 8 0.1uF $0.01 $0.08
9 R4,R7 SM0805 2 4.7K $0.01 $0.03
10 C5 SM0805 1 1uF $0.02 $0.02
11 C1,C2 SM0805 2 22pF $0.01 $0.02
12 R5,R9 SM0805 2 10K $0.01 $0.02
13 R1,R2 SM0805 2 22R $0.01 $0.03
14 C3 SM0805 1 4.7uF $0.02 $0.02
15 R8 SM0805 1 1K $0.01 $0.01
16 RP1,RP2 RPACK_1206 2 10K 5% $0.01 $0.02
17 RP3,RP4 RPACK_1206 2 100K 5% $0.08 $0.15
18 P2 pin_array_3x2 1 CONN_3X2 $0.45 $0.45
19 X1 HC49US 1 16MHz $0.60 $0.60
20 U5,U6 DHVQFN16 2 74AHC595 $0.60 $1.20
21 Ground wire + crimp 1 Chassis GND $0.25 $0.25
22 PDW1 805_396_30x2_pins 1 EDGE_30X2 $3.00 $3.00
PCB 1 $12.60 $12.60
Total $31.06
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Sheet 3: Model-F-USB
Id Designator Package Quantity Designation Price Total
2 U2 tsot-6 1 DAC101S101 $3.16 $3.16
3 U1 TQFP32 1 ATMEGA32U2 $7.00 $7.00
5 U3,U4 so-14 2 LM339A $0.48 $0.96
6 R6,R3 SM0805 2 20K $0.01 $0.02
7 C9,C10,C7,C12,C11,C4,C8,C6 SM0805 8 0.1uF $0.01 $0.08
8 R4,R7 SM0805 2 4.7K $0.01 $0.03
9 C5 SM0805 1 1uF $0.02 $0.02
10 C1,C2 SM0805 2 22pF $0.01 $0.02
11 R8 SM0805 1 1K $0.01 $0.01
12 R5,R9 SM0805 2 10K $0.01 $0.02
13 C3 SM0805 1 4.7uF $0.02 $0.02
14 R2,R1 SM0805 2 22R $0.01 $0.03
15 RP3,RP4 RPACK_1206 2 100K 1% $0.08 $0.15
16 RP2,RP1 RPACK_1206 2 10K 5% $0.01 $0.02
17 P2 pin_array_3x2 1 CONN_3X2 $0.60 $0.60
right angle
19 X1 HC49US 1 16MHz $0.60 $0.60
20 U5,U6 DHVQFN16 2 74AHC595 $0.60 $1.20
21 P1 USB-Micro-B 1 USB $1.60 $1.60
PCB 1 $12.95 $12.95
Total $28.78
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Sheet 4: Solenoid-Driver
Id Designator Package Quantity Designation Price Total
1 U1 SOT23_6 1 MIC2009A-1 $1.70 $1.70
2 U3 SOT23-5 1 MIC2250-2 $2.45 $2.45
3 U2 so-16 1 ULN2003 $0.96 $0.96
4 C5,C3 SM1210 2 22uF $0.36 $0.72
5 D2 SM1206POL 1 LED $0.17 $0.17
6 R2,R4,R6 SM0805 3 100K $0.01 $0.03
7 R5 SM0805 1 16K $0.01 $0.01
8 C1 SM0805 1 1uF $0.02 $0.02
9 R1,R3 SM0805 2 470R $0.01 $0.02
10 C4,C2 SM0805 2 0.1uF $0.01 $0.02
11 P1 pin_array_3x2 1 CONN_3X2 $0.45 $0.45
12 P3 PIN_ARRAY_2X1 1 CONN_2 $0.10 $0.10
13 D1 DO-41 1 1N5819 $0.30 $0.30
14 C6 c_elec_6.3x7.7 1 220uF $0.70 $0.70
15 L1 INDUCTOR_12.8x12.8 1 22uH $1.80 $1.80
6-pin ribbon cable 1 $4.22 $4.22
+ connectors
PCB 1 $3.13 $3.13
Total $16.79
The pricing for the three controllers is close enough that I will set US$50 for each controller for me to build and test each one. I think this is a fair margin over my raw costs for an hour or so soldering, assembling, testing and packaging (and heatshrinking USB cables for the Model Fs). I certainly won't get rich charging that :)
The solenoid driver I will set at US$25 for me to build/assemble/test.
Shipping in the past has been US$11.50 to pretty much anywhere with untracked airmail. It has usually taken about 2 weeks to arrive. For tracked airmail, NZ Post puts the price up to approx. US$40.50 which is reasonably steep, but may be worth it if you've had packages go missing in your part of the world before.
Current orders
Round 1/June 1st batch closed, fully shipped
Final tally:
- 24x Model-F-USB-Rev2
- 9x Beamspring-USB-Rev4
- 6x Beamspring-Displaywriter-USB-Rev1
- 8x Solenoid-Driver-Rev2
- 4x 3178-Adaptor-Rev1
Last round almost squeezed in a month from close of order to end of shipping everything out (apart from the leftovers—which are all gone now); I'm reasonably confident we can aim to hit a month this time.
Final tally:
- 18x Model-F-USB-Rev2
- 11x Beamspring-USB-Rev4
- 2x Beamspring-Displaywriter-USB-Rev1
- 13x Solenoid-Driver-Rev3
- 1x 3178-Adaptor-Rev1
Current tally:
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 12 May 2014, 20:31:38
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 12 May 2014, 21:26:22
Post by: Techno Trousers on Tue, 13 May 2014, 00:05:06
Thanks!
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 14 May 2014, 16:00:12
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 18 May 2014, 14:57:32
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 18 May 2014, 20:54:10
One of the Rev1 boards is now installed and working in Murium's Kishsaver. We're going over some modifications over at the DT thread to give it a better fit/mounting and make the installation easier for the Rev2 boards (the mounting points don't quite line up on the Rev1 boards in the Kishsaver). It is successfully working though which is good news.
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 20 May 2014, 11:46:44
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 20 May 2014, 11:52:47
Should this be in Artisan Services for now or even Interest Checks (most likely A.S.)? The project does not seem to be in a true group buy state yet.
His last edit says he is taking orders until June 1st to get prices down.....isn't that what group buys are for?
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 20 May 2014, 11:56:49
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 20 May 2014, 19:15:00
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:46:37
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 02 June 2014, 18:14:56
Quote
June 1st order has closed, order confirmations have been sent out and I'm now waiting to get confirmations back from everybody before I place the orders for PCBs and parts.
Once I place the order, the PCBs will probably take the longest to get back, even with expedited shipping. I am allowing 2–3 weeks before everything arrives, although hopefully will be sooner.
Once I start assembling I will keep this thread up-to-date with progress photos etc.
If you were interested, there are a total of 39 different boards that have been ordered (including Solenoid Drivers and 3178 adaptors etc.). Looks like my tweezers and solder-paste-syringe muscles are going to get a workout :D
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:46:28
Post by: xwhatsit on Thu, 05 June 2014, 20:32:19
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 05 June 2014, 20:34:57
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 05 June 2014, 20:49:29
If so, I'll take an extra or two!
Post by: xwhatsit on Thu, 05 June 2014, 20:54:02
Unfortunately I'm all out of extras from this batch; I had one spare, but that's already been assigned to a Geekhack member contacting me via email :(
After I've assembled this batch and finished up, I will be happy to do more orders, even if they're one-offs, which is how I did the Beamspring orders in the past.
Post by: Selectric on Sun, 08 June 2014, 06:50:02
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 08 June 2014, 16:24:52
I would like to order an assembled controller for the IBM Displaywriter Keyboard. Please get back to me with further details. Thanks! Luke
Unfortunately I closed the order on June 1st, so I have already ordered the parts. However, I think you might be in luck with the Beamspring Displaywriter controller, I do have a couple of spares of those (maybe!). I'll double check to make sure I have ordered enough parts, and let you know.
Post by: xwhatsit on Thu, 12 June 2014, 16:42:26
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 12 June 2014, 17:56:39
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 17 June 2014, 02:33:52
[attach=1]
I've spotted a problem with the 3178 adaptor boards; the holes for the pin headers are waaaay too small for the 3.96mm-pitch right-angle pin headers I was going to use to connect it to the Model F controller. It seems you can barely get 3.96mm-pitch pin headers any more, and the few that are out there are all this massive size (1.14mm square, or 1.6mm diagonal!) that doesn't stand a chance of fitting. It might squeeze into the controller side but definitely not the adaptor side. Either I can get some new boards fabbed up and wait for weeks again, or what I'll probably do is solder on 30 individual broken-off standard right-angle pin headers, holding them in place with a jig of some sort. Will mean a fair bit of time with soldering iron in hand but preferrable to waiting I'm sure people will agree.
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 17 June 2014, 19:09:38
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 17 June 2014, 19:42:31
Woohoo! Put together the first Rev2 Model F controller in a spare moment, and it all works :D As always, found something to worry about, I was concerned I'd ordered 24 PCBs with a crook micro-USB connector. All works nicely and seems very robust and easier to reflow than the mini-USB on the other boards (and should be rated for way more connect-disconnect cycles than the mini-USB despite its flimsy-looking appearance).
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Thanks for all the updates! I can't wait :). Will you be shipping them out as they're made?
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 17 June 2014, 19:53:41
I have multiple beam spring keyboards, a Displaywriter, a "space saver" Beam spring and many other terminal boards.
I'd love three of them - a Beamspring to USB, Displaywriter to USB and a Model F controller.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 17 June 2014, 20:44:53
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 17 June 2014, 21:01:13
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 17 June 2014, 21:29:40
I'm beyond excited to see these PCBs being built up. Thanks for all the updates xwhatsit!Cheers! I might have to do a video of a controller being reflowed... that is a cool thing to watch :D
Thanks for all the updates! I can't wait :). Will you be shipping them out as they're made?Once I start assembling in earnest (might have to wait until this weekend unfortunately) I think I'll knock most of them off pretty quick, apart from the 3178 adaptors which will need a lot of hand-soldering. I might just hit the post office in one hit Santa-style with a sack of controller parcels.
I missed this group buy due to my own ignorance, so I really hope you run a second round. :thumb: That said, this project looks amazing and I can't wait to see these out in the wild and in action. :)I'll keep both threads up to date with details of future orders. Providing everything goes well on these orders, I'll do a new batch relatively soon, as there have been a number of inquiries after leftover boards etc.
This is incredible. I honestly thought this site had become mostly about key caps and fights over group buys... but I come back and find an amazing thread like this? You sir are awesome.Thanks! There's some cool stuff on GH and DT; the other capsense project based on HaaTa's controller is looking very promising for the Model Fs too. The more `doing' and less `keycapping' the better I say :D I sent you a PM as you probably saw; as above, hopefully will be able to run a new batch in the next couple of months.
I have multiple beam spring keyboards, a Displaywriter, a "space saver" Beam spring and many other terminal boards.
I'd love three of them - a Beamspring to USB, Displaywriter to USB and a Model F controller.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 17 June 2014, 21:32:01
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 17 June 2014, 21:44:14
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 17 June 2014, 22:43:34
O_o
Post by: bcg on Fri, 20 June 2014, 20:45:18
I've spotted a problem with the 3178 adaptor boards; the holes for the pin headers are waaaay too small for the 3.96mm-pitch right-angle pin headers I was going to use to connect it to the Model F controller. It seems you can barely get 3.96mm-pitch pin headers any more, and the few that are out there are all this massive size (1.14mm square, or 1.6mm diagonal!) that doesn't stand a chance of fitting. It might squeeze into the controller side but definitely not the adaptor side. Either I can get some new boards fabbed up and wait for weeks again, or what I'll probably do is solder on 30 individual broken-off standard right-angle pin headers, holding them in place with a jig of some sort. Will mean a fair bit of time with soldering iron in hand but preferrable to waiting I'm sure people will agree.
I forgot what the adapter board did again... IIRC there was a way to attach the 3178 without the adapter, right? If so I'm cool with doing that so that you don't have to go to the extra trouble or order any extra boards for me
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 21 June 2014, 16:44:02
I've spotted a problem with the 3178 adaptor boards; the holes for the pin headers are waaaay too small for the 3.96mm-pitch right-angle pin headers I was going to use to connect it to the Model F controller. It seems you can barely get 3.96mm-pitch pin headers any more, and the few that are out there are all this massive size (1.14mm square, or 1.6mm diagonal!) that doesn't stand a chance of fitting. It might squeeze into the controller side but definitely not the adaptor side. Either I can get some new boards fabbed up and wait for weeks again, or what I'll probably do is solder on 30 individual broken-off standard right-angle pin headers, holding them in place with a jig of some sort. Will mean a fair bit of time with soldering iron in hand but preferrable to waiting I'm sure people will agree.
I forgot what the adapter board did again... IIRC there was a way to attach the 3178 without the adapter, right? If so I'm cool with doing that so that you don't have to go to the extra trouble or order any extra boards for me
If I am not mistaken, hasu figured out a way to do it with a Teensy, but ut does not give the full functionality of replacing the controller. And you really have to do a lot of DIY for hasu's controller.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54706.0
Post by: Pacifist on Sat, 21 June 2014, 17:08:02
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 22 June 2014, 02:48:07
All right... long day. Didn't have any time to work on these yesterday (why is June/July always the busiest two months in the year?!), so put in as much time as I could today.
Have assembled all 24 Model F controllers; took a lot longer than I expected, but got there in the end. Most of them still need the pin headers soldered on, and all of them still need to be properly tested.
I quickly plugged all of them into USB (whatever micro-USB sockets I selected are damned tight—you won't need to worry about the cables falling out!); all but two showed up as the Atmel DFU bootloader, so that's promising. The remaining two I hope just need some simple rework, maybe clean up a short I missed or whatever.
Apologies for the crap photo, I was in a bit of a rush to get out the door!
[attach=1]
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 22 June 2014, 02:49:52
D'oh!
Hope you two weren't eagerly waiting with soldering irons :( Sorry if I've taken the fun out of it...
Post by: snoopy on Sun, 22 June 2014, 03:26:01
That's OK, there's more than one person who has a 3178, I think I know how to solder all of the pins individually without going mad. The only way you'd be able to attach the Model-F-USB Rev2 to the 3178 would be by desoldering the ribbon cable and soldering a bunch of single wires in its place; the pinout is different enough that I don't think the ribbon would be able to be modified.
All right... long day. Didn't have any time to work on these yesterday (why is June/July always the busiest two months in the year?!), so put in as much time as I could today.
Have assembled all 24 Model F controllers; took a lot longer than I expected, but got there in the end. Most of them still need the pin headers soldered on, and all of them still need to be properly tested.
I quickly plugged all of them into USB (whatever micro-USB sockets I selected are damned tight—you won't need to worry about the cables falling out!); all but two showed up as the Atmel DFU bootloader, so that's promising. The remaining two I hope just need some simple rework, maybe clean up a short I missed or whatever.
Apologies for the crap photo, I was in a bit of a rush to get out the door!
(Attachment Link)
That are great news. Can't wait...
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 22 June 2014, 08:30:51
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 22 June 2014, 16:47:13
Still to go:
4x 3178 adaptors
6x Beamsprings
5x Beamspring-Displaywriters
7x Solenoid Drivers
I'm also still waiting for the 6-pin ribbon cables from element14, which have to be the single worst supplier I have ever used.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 22 June 2014, 16:56:10
It's looking like I might be able to start shipping the Model-F-only orders soon.
YES! Now to hunt down a beamspring board...
Post by: Frenir on Sun, 22 June 2014, 17:12:39
EDIT: Nevermind.
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 22 June 2014, 17:15:45
On a Model F, in nearly all cases you could get by with Soarer's converter (or if you have a PC-AT, just with an adaptor). However, there are weird Model Fs like 3178s, Kishsavers and other strange terminal boards where you don't have a choice. On some of the more esoteric terminal boards I believe that even with a converter you may not get full functionality (full make/break key events, NKRO, use of the solenoid if you're lucky enough to have one etc.).
If you're me... you'd change the controller just for Science :D
Post by: Frenir on Sun, 22 June 2014, 17:18:51
On a Beamspring or Beamspring-Displaywriter, you'd replace it so you could use it with a modern computer at all.Ahh, thank you for answering my somewhat ignorant question. I just saw another thread earlier with replacement controllers for various boards and thought "why?"
On a Model F, in nearly all cases you could get by with Soarer's converter (or if you have a PC-AT, just with an adaptor). However, there are weird Model Fs like 3178s, Kishsavers and other strange terminal boards where you don't have a choice. On some of the more esoteric terminal boards I believe that even with a converter you may not get full functionality (full make/break key events, NKRO, use of the solenoid if you're lucky enough to have one etc.).
If you're me... you'd change the controller just for Science :D
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 23 June 2014, 21:07:33
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 23 June 2014, 21:11:09
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 25 June 2014, 04:12:33
Tonight I put together the solenoid driver boards. I've tested one but the others will need testing tomorrow.
You'll see during the reflow photos below (first one is early in the oven at about 150°C, you can see the paste pooling between the pins and going all mushy—this is when I normally start freaking out, second one is when the solder has melted and is cooking off the flux) that I have missed off one of the ULN2003s (the board at the top right). Solder fumes must be getting to me. Wondered why I had one leftover ULN2003 still in the box :roll:
Tonight I will send out `ready to ship, please pay' emails to everybody who has ordered just a Model F board. I can then start shipping those once the payment comes through.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 25 June 2014, 21:28:12
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 25 June 2014, 22:55:07
The rest of the Model Fs (13 left) are part of multiple-controller orders, or also need solenoid drivers and 3178 adaptors.
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 25 June 2014, 23:04:54
Cables assembled. You'll note four have extra wires; these are destined for 3178s, which have the cool blue switch on the top. This is for that; I'm going to add a mode to the firmware allowing it to be used for locks (Caps Lock to start with; Num Lock would be good too, and I think Fn locks are something nice to have anyway).
On the solenoid drivers, I left an (unused) pin missing for the 6-pin connector, and filled the spot with a blanking plug. This was on Dorkvader's suggestion, to avoid plugging it in backwards—anyone heard from him lately? He sent me a PM with some queries about his Displaywriter controller (not scanning so good) and I haven't heard back after I replied with some more questions. Maybe he's still moving house.
Post by: xwhatsit on Thu, 26 June 2014, 00:59:28
Yes they will really mount upside down like that. The extra cable is for grounding, as these will not mount to any existing bracketry inside the case, unfortunately.
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 29 June 2014, 03:04:48
So here are 4 Displaywriter controllers and 5 standard Beamspring controllers. Quantalume's controller is the one missing the connector (he has kindly offered to solder his own connector on, as he has way too many—or perhaps he has seen photos of my soldering?).
All of them are posting over USB fine, but need proper testing of the capsense circuitry and then maybe a wash. Will hopefully be able to do that tomorrow.
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 30 June 2014, 00:48:17
On the solenoid drivers, I left an (unused) pin missing for the 6-pin connector, and filled the spot with a blanking plug. This was on Dorkvader's suggestion, to avoid plugging it in backwards—anyone heard from him lately? He sent me a PM with some queries about his Displaywriter controller (not scanning so good) and I haven't heard back after I replied with some more questions. Maybe he's still moving house.Just to follow up on this, I simply missed his PM response to my inquiry. The good news is that I can confirm the Displaywriter board to be working 100%
Also, the solenoid driver will work on the displaywriter's speaker, should you want to try it (but it doesn't sound as good, maybe I should put a spare solenoid from a different keyboard in its place.)
To anyone on the fence about these, they are great, well made, and the fact that they arrive *tested* is huge. Huge! Xwhatsit is a great guy and a valuable member of the communities.
I love how Geekhack is becoming more about the "hack" for a lot of people. It's great to see all the projects come to life.
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 30 June 2014, 01:44:54
Finished and tested the Displaywriters and (standard) Beamsprings; all tested OK with a bit of rework (upside-down DAC on one, ouch!).
Unfortunately I'm going to delay shipping these until I get delivery of some flux cleaner—the huckory old solder I `borrowed' to solder the connectors has some horrible flux on it that won't clean off with my standard methods, and I doubt it's `No-Clean' like the normal stuff I use. D'oh. Flux cleaner should be here tomorrow or on Wednesday; unfortunately I have to travel on Thursday so it may be as late as Friday before these are shipped. I apologise; I just don't want boards to start failing in 6 months or so because of super-aggressive flux that wasn't cleaned off. Plus they've got to look tumeke.
[attach=1]
On a more positive note, software v0.7.0 is coming along nicely; the Caps/Num/Shift/FnX lock switch using an external input (i.e. the blue switch on the 3178s) works very nicely, and the new function-key behaviour seems to be pretty useful (at the expense of a few more precious bytes of RAM—it's getting pretty tight on the Model Fs with their 128-node matrix—might have to do some refactoring!).
See below for the world's most badass Caps Lock switch (words can't describe how satisfying this is):
[attach=2]
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 02 July 2014, 04:00:50
Here they are, the last of them, ready to be packed:
[attach=1]
I'll send out messages tonight for the final people have haven't paid yet. I won't be around during the day tomorrow but will be able to post these on Friday as planned earlier.
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 04 July 2014, 00:12:32
Job this weekend: writing installation and setup instructions so that people know what to do with the things when they get them :)
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 07 July 2014, 00:52:59
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 07 July 2014, 00:55:06
Post by: sleepy916 on Mon, 07 July 2014, 01:12:09
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 08 July 2014, 00:28:16
I've done the Beamspring and Beamspring-Displaywriter installation manuals; download them at the usual place: http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb
I'm cracking on with the Model-F manuals; a bit hampered because of a lack of photographs, but trawling bitsavers for old Model F service manuals.
Version 0.7.0 of the software/firmware is also up on the website. I haven't done a Mac OS X binary for this yet—hopefully will do tomorrow when I can borrow a Mac laptop. Bear in mind 0.7.0 has reasonably major changes to the way Fn keys and layers work; the gist of it is that Fn keys are now evaluated on subsequent layers, and there's now Select keys. You can see details if you download one of the installation manuals.
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 08 July 2014, 05:07:53
Also to come is a manual for the solenoid driver.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 08 July 2014, 11:05:00
Your work on this has been greatly appreciated, especially by us less computer savvy people.
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 09 July 2014, 04:05:52
Also uploaded is a Mac OS X binary for the 0.7.0 version of the util.
http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 09 July 2014, 05:34:00
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 09 July 2014, 14:15:11
Just updated the Model F USB one with an appendix showing installation in a 3178. It's a bit sparse right now because it hasn't been done yet so I have no photos :) Let me know if it is too vague prdlm2009—maybe I can do some kind of child-like drawing with a ballpoint showing it a bit clearer.
Also uploaded is a Mac OS X binary for the 0.7.0 version of the util.
http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/
I will not have to do an installation on a 3178 controller. Just the Kishsaver, which is for the 4704 system, if I am not mistaken. But I will let you know if things are not clear. So far, those guides are some of the best things that I have seen floating around for installing keyboard controllers.
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 09 July 2014, 16:55:24
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 09 July 2014, 18:35:05
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 09 July 2014, 18:38:47
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 09 July 2014, 18:39:43
Hm...I wonder if mine will arrive before Keycon. Imagine I bring my 6019284 and got it working there o.O
Imagine I take it home with me... O.o
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 09 July 2014, 22:42:48
Hm...I wonder if mine will arrive before Keycon. Imagine I bring my 6019284 and got it working there o.O
Imagine I take it home with me... O.o
Yoink!!
Post by: riotonthebay on Sat, 12 July 2014, 10:24:02
Thanks xwhatsit for making this possible. The controller was very easy to install and program, and everything Just Worked the first time.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 12 July 2014, 10:34:06
I'll have everyone know that I'm currently typing this on a Kishsaver. So good. So clicky.
Thanks xwhatsit for making this possible. The controller was very easy to install and program, and everything Just Worked the first time.
needs more video of the typing in action! ;)
Post by: xwhatsit on Sat, 12 July 2014, 18:16:43
Did you have the chance to take any photos of the controller being installed? Not dramas if you didn't, I'm sure somebody will have a pic of one in a Kishsaver at some point, but I have a dearth of Model-F-USB photos (particularly of Rev2—Murium's installation of the prototype was necessarily unusual).
If you have a nice layout, you might like to export it and attach it somewhere, as it would give a good starting point for others with Kishsavers.
Post by: riotonthebay on Sat, 12 July 2014, 20:03:25
Yay! Well done riotonthebay :D
Did you have the chance to take any photos of the controller being installed? Not dramas if you didn't, I'm sure somebody will have a pic of one in a Kishsaver at some point, but I have a dearth of Model-F-USB photos (particularly of Rev2—Murium's installation of the prototype was necessarily unusual).
If you have a nice layout, you might like to export it and attach it somewhere, as it would give a good starting point for others with Kishsavers.
No pictures at the moment, but I need to replace a couple flippers -- I'll take a few pictures when I crack it open to do that. I'll share the layout as well.
Thanks again!
Post by: Daspartic on Wed, 16 July 2014, 01:45:57
Hope to see a round 2!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 16 July 2014, 06:45:53
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 16 July 2014, 16:39:18
Post by: Daspartic on Mon, 21 July 2014, 16:18:35
I would like to order an assembled controller for the IBM Displaywriter Keyboard. Please get back to me with further details. Thanks! Luke
Unfortunately I closed the order on June 1st, so I have already ordered the parts. However, I think you might be in luck with the Beamspring Displaywriter controller, I do have a couple of spares of those (maybe!). I'll double check to make sure I have ordered enough parts, and let you know.
Would you happen to have another one of those controllers for the beamspring displaywriter lying around? Please say yes. :D
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 22 July 2014, 04:49:24
For everybody else, that will be the last leftover from Round 1... I had exactly one spare PCB, and it was a Displaywriter.
Round 2 will hopefully open soon. I need to square some things away in `real life' so I can commit to certain deadlines with this, but will most likely post something up this week.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 22 July 2014, 13:38:52
See PM!
For everybody else, that will be the last leftover from Round 1... I had exactly one spare PCB, and it was a Displaywriter.
Round 2 will hopefully open soon. I need to square some things away in `real life' so I can commit to certain deadlines with this, but will most likely post something up this week.
Great to hear!! :thumb:
Post by: Wildcard on Tue, 22 July 2014, 14:11:18
Yay! Well done riotonthebay :D
Did you have the chance to take any photos of the controller being installed? Not dramas if you didn't, I'm sure somebody will have a pic of one in a Kishsaver at some point, but I have a dearth of Model-F-USB photos (particularly of Rev2—Murium's installation of the prototype was necessarily unusual).
If you have a nice layout, you might like to export it and attach it somewhere, as it would give a good starting point for others with Kishsavers.
No pictures at the moment, but I need to replace a couple flippers -- I'll take a few pictures when I crack it open to do that. I'll share the layout as well.
Thanks again!
Just caught up on this. Awesome news. So now I guess I should order a few and finally get my Kishsaver built proper.
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 28 July 2014, 05:41:45
Is anybody still waiting to receive their controller(s) from Round 1? You GH guys are awfully quiet (at least when you're not vomiting unicorn rainbows and RGB LEDs all over your Cherry MX keycaps ;D).
Post by: poxeclipse on Mon, 28 July 2014, 05:57:27
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 28 July 2014, 08:05:55
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 28 July 2014, 17:35:35
The_Beast: Which one is the unsaver? If it's the 104-key terminal (like a 122-key without a numpad) then yes; if you're talking about the `Bigfoot' – http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_misc/bigfoot/1.jpg – I'm not so sure, I think these have a built-in controller that can't be removed except by cutting and hacking.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 28 July 2014, 17:36:59
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 28 July 2014, 18:01:14
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 05 August 2014, 00:04:57
Excuse potato photo, I haven't got the hang of not blowing the highlights through the roof when I use these newfangled digital cameras yet:
[attach=1]
White + black + blue tripleshots!!!
[attach=2]
The weird thing on this keyboard is the key indentation; normally beamsprings have extra-deep dishing on the F and J keys as normal. This one has extra-deep dishing on J, K and L, presumably to help you centre on the numpad. Feels very strange, especially not having anything for F. I'm getting used to it though.
Another strange thing is the left and right shifts, which are significantly recessed. And yes, the Right Shift (or whatever key it's supposed to be) really does go that way up.
The little trapdoor thing on the bottom where the manual folds out is a bit of a let-down; it's the only bit of plastic (other than the keycaps) on the keyboard, and is a bit rattly. mr_a500 isn't missing anything by not having one on his 3278. Other than that it's very solid—more solid than the old 3727 even. Must be because it's Canadian-made.
Unfortunately I had no Rev4 controllers left—I all of them but one, and then swapped the one I was actually using myself with the cool Dutch chap who built a 3278 converter for his PCB (he had a 3278 with a dud controller). I am left with two Rev1 controllers (my prototypes). To my great suprise—after all of that hooha earlier in the development of the controllers—the Rev1 controller fits perfectly into the case of a 3278, despite being upright. Granted, there's not a lot of room to spare, and there may be tolerances between different keyboards, but I had to laugh...
Up and running now, put the 3727 back on the shelf for now. I'm still trying to figure out the final details of how to map the embedded numpad. My right thumb does actually hit the spacebar itself comfortably; nonetheless on the base layer I have the big numpad 0 as a spacebar too. I then to a hop-skip Fn1->Fn2 jump to numpad layer. My only issue is where to place the numpad +/-/÷/* keys, as a numpad without those is pretty useless. Will have to have a play.
All in all a nice little keyboard. It really is pretty compact. Looking forward to getting Round 2 of the controller orders underway, so I can order myself a Rev4 beamspring controller and a solenoid driver. The solenoid on these is nicely rubber mounted in a little cradle, so should sound quite different. I'm sure mr_a500 can chime in here.
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 05 August 2014, 09:49:08
poxeclipse: wonderful! Let me know if you need any help with the installation.
The_Beast: Which one is the unsaver? If it's the 104-key terminal (like a 122-key without a numpad) then yes; if you're talking about the `Bigfoot' – http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_misc/bigfoot/1.jpg – I'm not so sure, I think these have a built-in controller that can't be removed except by cutting and hacking.
Yup, the 122 key without the numberpad
Since this will work with both (unsaver and kishsaver), I'll take 3 (just encase I ever need another one).
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 05 August 2014, 09:52:28
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 05 August 2014, 16:50:36
CPTBadAss: Don't lose hope, there still seem to be a few hidden away in warehouses and surplus shops judging by the three that appeared on eBay recently within a few days.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:07:40
Terrific! Good luck with the install :)
Here's a question I had about the installation. I had a bear of a time trying to detach the ribbon cable from the old controller. In the process, I pulled some of the wiring out of the ribbon cable insulation. Nothing too bad and I noticed you did the same in your how-to pdf. You used Kapton tape to repair your cable. I don't have that available to me at the moment but I can get the standard electrical tape. Is there a reason you went with Kapton or am I just reading into it too much? I'm probably just going to use the normal electrical tape but I was curious.
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 12 August 2014, 15:41:23
No problem with using that.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 16:03:16
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 18:27:46
Only issue I'm having is that I'm having trouble getting my "1" being picked up. It seems to be picked up by the utility intermittently and I'm not sure how to fix it. Can you direct me to the portion in your manual that has some details about troubleshooting this problem?
I thought I found the section on page 9, under 6.2.2, but it's still not working correctly like the other switches.
Also, thank you for setting this whole project up. I'm beyond happy that this keyboard is working over USB :D.
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 12 August 2014, 18:41:10
The_Beast: Awesome, I'll send you a confirmation PM on the 15th when this batch closes just to make sure I got your order right and you're OK with the total.
huehuehue, that's my birthday!
Thanks again for all the hard work!
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 12 August 2014, 18:42:30
For your 1 key, if you start changing the voltage threshold manually (ignoring all the other keys), is there any threshold where the key works reliably? Given that it's only one key and not an entire row or column I wonder if there may be some fluff or something on the sense pads underneath it or some other physical issue with that key which is causing it to be flaky.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 18:56:25
Nice job!
For your 1 key, if you start changing the voltage threshold manually (ignoring all the other keys), is there any threshold where the key works reliably? Given that it's only one key and not an entire row or column I wonder if there may be some fluff or something on the sense pads underneath it or some other physical issue with that key which is causing it to be flaky.
Hm, it seems to work ok between 124 and 125. It's not "perfect" like the other switches though. It's not repeating like the other switches. So if I press down, on the 2 next to it, it repeats. With the 1, it doesn't repeat but it works fine if I tap the 1.It feels like it's seated right and I used a Datavac to try and clean it up.
Anywho, if you think it's a physical thing and not a software thing, I can work on it when I take it apart next. Or just live with it. It's not that big a deal to me.
Oh one more thing, I thought I got the layers setup correctly but it seems that the mute/vol up/vol down commands don't work. Perhaps I don't have my function layers setup correctly?
(http://i.imgur.com/0iIpgfz.png)
Layer 1 works fine for me but layer 2 I put things like "Media play/pause" and "Volume Down" which don't seem to be working. I have the FN1 and FN2 mapped the same across the layers.
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 12 August 2014, 19:21:41
With your volume keys, Windows sometimes isn't that keen on the media keys; I see in Soarer's documentation he mentions a similar issue. I don't know if you need a separate program to map those to actions. On Linux and Mac OS X it seems to work out of the box, but under Windows you may need to use AutoHotkey or something to change the volume when the key is pressed. The keyboard emits the USB scancode for `Volume Up' but it doesn't necessary mean the operating system is listening for it. There are actually two sets of volume stuff; Volume Up/Down/Mute and Media Volume Up/Down/Mute; the first set is purely `keyboard' scancodes, whereas the Media scancodes are for USB `media devices' according to the HID spec (the controller pretends to be multiple USB devices). You can maybe try both sets.
It sounds like you've got the layers sorted; you could always check they're working by mapping some other key you can easily spot (like Z or something) to that key on the layer and see if it works.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 19:50:49
Hmm bugger. There should be way more `sweet spot' than just one or two pulses. The only other thing I can think to check other than cleaning the pad card from any flaky foam etc. is to check you have the Column Skips thing set up right. The Kishsaver has some columns tied to GND and that might mess up sensing unless you have those programmed right. Then again, that should mess up other keys on the same column (I take it the 1 key isn't the only key on that column on the matrix?).
I set the columns up properly and it still has the same issue. I'll have to open it up sometime and clean it. But yes, there is only a two pulse sweet spot. 123 starts to interfere with the escape key. And 126 doesn't register at all.
And I noticed it's not only repeating but it's a little laggy. When I was typing out 123 and 126, it would register as 213 and 216.
With your volume keys, Windows sometimes isn't that keen on the media keys; I see in Soarer's documentation he mentions a similar issue. I don't know if you need a separate program to map those to actions. On Linux and Mac OS X it seems to work out of the box, but under Windows you may need to use AutoHotkey or something to change the volume when the key is pressed. The keyboard emits the USB scancode for `Volume Up' but it doesn't necessary mean the operating system is listening for it. There are actually two sets of volume stuff; Volume Up/Down/Mute and Media Volume Up/Down/Mute; the first set is purely `keyboard' scancodes, whereas the Media scancodes are for USB `media devices' according to the HID spec (the controller pretends to be multiple USB devices). You can maybe try both sets.
It sounds like you've got the layers sorted; you could always check they're working by mapping some other key you can easily spot (like Z or something) to that key on the layer and see if it works.
I actually have both Volume Up/Down and Media Volume Up/Down programmed in my Layer 2. Neither work. I'll have to try the AHK another night. I'm just going to enjoy this board for now since I consider it 95% working. :D
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 12 August 2014, 19:57:10
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:21:56
HPE1000: Neat—I'll send you a PM on Friday with confirmation details etc. Cheers!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:28:26
CPTBadAss: You should do what Murium did over at Deskthority—he mapped his `s' key to where the right-control key would be on a `normal' keyboard until he got around to opening his Kishsaver and fixing the broken foot or whatever was troubling that key. The problem is he got way too used to pressing `s' with his right pinky :))
LOL that's hilarious. It's not that big of an issue for me to take such a drastic measure but thanks for the laugh :P
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 15 August 2014, 05:19:16
The final totals:
10x Beamspring-USB-Rev4
2x Beamspring-Displaywriter-USB-Rev1
16x Model-F-USB-Rev2
12x Solenoid-Driver-Rev3
1x 3178-Adaptor
You might notice from the above list that there is a new version of the solenoid driver board; I have updated and improved it a bit. I now have the boost-converter flyback diode surface mounted, which I reckon must save $5 of swearing while bending leads and hand-soldering :) , so I have reduced the price to $20. LED is also an 0603 now; I don't know why 90% of LEDs are either 1206 or 0603, hardly any 0805s. Pic below:
(https://644db4de3505c40a0444-327723bce298e3ff5813fb42baeefbaa.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/uploads/project/top_image/hHHeAmGj/i.png)
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 17 August 2014, 18:43:49
Now need to order all the components.
There were a few extra orders after Friday, which I added to the batch (it's definitely finalised now though!), bringing the totals to:
11x Beamspring
2x Displaywriter
18x Model F
13x Solenoid Driver
2x 3178 Adaptor
Post by: JaccoW on Sun, 24 August 2014, 17:04:12
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 24 August 2014, 17:16:50
I myself have no plans to start building non-capacitive controllers; I'm only doing the capacitive ones because I needed some for my crusty old beamsprings and nobody else was really getting on with developing a capacitive controller at the time (now there's the DPH controller underway for the Model Fs); I've had to keep making them as people keep wanting them. There's already a bunch of DIY Model M controllers out there, and I wouldn't have thought adding support for the trackpoint would be particularly complex.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 24 August 2014, 20:26:55
I have Base Layer set at QWERTY.
I have Layer 1 set at the navigation keys and F keys and such.
I have Layer 2 set at an alternative layout.
I want to access Layer 2 by pressing FN1 plus a key on Layer 1 set to "Select 2". But no matter how I fiddle with the Layer Conditions tab, I can't seem to get it to work.
Any advice to get Layer 2 to show up? I really would like to use my alternative layout. QWERTY sucks.
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 24 August 2014, 20:36:52
To get Layer 2 to come up when you press Fn1, do the following (probably best to clear what's on the layer conditions tab currently):
- On the layer conditions tab, check the `Fn1' checkbox on the first row
- On the same layer condition row, select Layer 2 in the combobox
- Assign Fn1 to a key on base layer
- Make sure the same key is also assigned to Fn1 on Layer 2
To hit any Fn keys or Select keys on Layer 1, you'll need to be able to get into Layer 1 first... so either another Fn key that goes to layer 1, or place Select 1 somewhere on base layer.
The keyboard only looks at one layer at a time for all scancodes including Fn/Select keys; normally this will be the base layer, until you push a Fn key or Select key on base layer to take it to a different layer (at which point it starts looking on the new layer for Fn/Select keys).
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 24 August 2014, 21:10:02
The method you described seemed to get the keyboard to only type the letters on Layer 2 when I was holding down the FN1 key on the base layer. Then I lost access to Layer 1.
I am having some trouble following your instructions, but I think it is a problem with my comprehension of your instructions.
Even when I put Select 1 or Select 2 on a key in the base layer, the keyboard does not affix to Layer 1 or Layer 2. For some reason, I cannot get the keyboard to stick to any other layer except the base layer. Basically, I cannot get the keyboard to switch permanently to any other layer besides the base layer, regardless of what I do.
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 24 August 2014, 21:51:07
So it sounds like you want Select more than Fn. The layer conditions stuff doesn't concern the Select keys, so let's not worry about that for the moment.
It's interesting it's not working though, even on the base layer. I have an idea though... what version does the utility say the firmware is? Obviously you'll be running the v0.7.0 util, as otherwise you wouldn't be able to set Select keys at all. However with the first batch I did ship a number of Model F controllers with the old v0.6.2 firmware (I hadn't written v0.7.0 yet); 0.6.2 doesn't have any knowledge of Select scancodes.
If you have out-of-date firmware, it's reasonably straightforward to update (you'll need to download Atmel FLIP though; there's a link in the installation manual). Just make sure you pick the right firmware (http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/0.7.0/ibm_capsense_usb_model-f_rev1-2_0.7.0.hex) otherwise you'll be having all sorts of fun :D
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 24 August 2014, 22:32:42
Yes the Fn key just momentarily chooses the layer, it won't stick, as soon as you release the Fn key (or the Fn key causes it to switch to a layer where that key is no longer the same Fn scancode), then it will drop back to the `default' layer (which is normally the base layer, unless Select has selected a new layer).
So it sounds like you want Select more than Fn. The layer conditions stuff doesn't concern the Select keys, so let's not worry about that for the moment.
It's interesting it's not working though, even on the base layer. I have an idea though... what version does the utility say the firmware is? Obviously you'll be running the v0.7.0 util, as otherwise you wouldn't be able to set Select keys at all. However with the first batch I did ship a number of Model F controllers with the old v0.6.2 firmware (I hadn't written v0.7.0 yet); 0.6.2 doesn't have any knowledge of Select scancodes.
If you have out-of-date firmware, it's reasonably straightforward to update (you'll need to download Atmel FLIP though; there's a link in the installation manual). Just make sure you pick the right firmware (http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/0.7.0/ibm_capsense_usb_model-f_rev1-2_0.7.0.hex) otherwise you'll be having all sorts of fun :D
Ok, the firmware does seem to be the problem. Now I just have to figure out how to flash the firmware
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 24 August 2014, 22:38:55
Don't worry about the pushbutton stuff, you just use `Enter bootloader' in the util software instead. Make sure to choose ATmega32U2 in FLIP instead of what they show.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 24 August 2014, 23:10:05
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 24 August 2014, 23:14:54
Glad you have it all set up nicely; interesting to see someone using the layers for a QWERTY and non-QWERTY pairing!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 25 August 2014, 06:13:09
Ahhh nice one. Sorry, didn't realise you were on UNIX too.
Glad you have it all set up nicely; interesting to see someone using the layers for a QWERTY and non-QWERTY pairing!
What, there are not more people doing this? QWERTY is awful and should be avoided like a Craigslist personals ad.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 25 August 2014, 07:06:58
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 25 August 2014, 08:02:47
I was also considering using layers on this board to teach myself a new layout like colemak.
Do it! The only downside in the break-in period, but once you have it mastered, there is no downside.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 25 August 2014, 08:15:16
I was also considering using layers on this board to teach myself a new layout like colemak.
Do it! The only downside in the break-in period, but once you have it mastered, there is not downside.
I will more than likely try this as well. :thumb: Why not! :cool:
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 26 August 2014, 17:30:46
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 26 August 2014, 17:45:38
Yes fixable, but not without some swearing.
There's nothing special about the ribbon cable itself, and the capacitive “pad card” (IBM's term—or the membrane as you called it) is just another PCB. I broke the ribbon cable in my 122-key when I was doing a lot of mucking around during the first tests; I “fixed” it like this and believe it or not it works perfectly:
[attach=1]
To get to the holes to actually solder new wires onto it I had to open the top plate/pad card/bottom plate sandwich up though, which is the point where you'll do at least 50% of the swearing. There should be a bunch of walkthroughs floating around (I know I've seen some on DT) on how to open up a Model F.
You may get lucky and find you can solder a single new wire on as a patch, which would be much simpler but maybe not as reliable long-term.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 August 2014, 18:03:25
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 26 August 2014, 18:16:05
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 26 August 2014, 21:50:28
Oh damn!
Yes fixable, but not without some swearing.
There's nothing special about the ribbon cable itself, and the capacitive “pad card” (IBM's term—or the membrane as you called it) is just another PCB. I broke the ribbon cable in my 122-key when I was doing a lot of mucking around during the first tests; I “fixed” it like this and believe it or not it works perfectly:
(Attachment Link)
To get to the holes to actually solder new wires onto it I had to open the top plate/pad card/bottom plate sandwich up though, which is the point where you'll do at least 50% of the swearing. There should be a bunch of walkthroughs floating around (I know I've seen some on DT) on how to open up a Model F.
You may get lucky and find you can solder a single new wire on as a patch, which would be much simpler but maybe not as reliable long-term.
Thanks for the advice. I have opened up and put back together a few Model F's, so i know what I am doing there. Kishsavers are not too frustrating.
I was wondering if I could just attempt to resolder the broken connections with the setup as it is, but I know that may not be a reliable long term solution.
I am a little worried that I may have damaged a few other connections to the capacitive pad card, so it might be in my best interest to replace the whole ribbon cable. I do not like the inflexibility of that ribbon cable, anyways.
Oddly enough, everything seems to working ok at the moment.
EDIT: Oh yea, I definitely need to resolder the whole thing. A few of those ribbon cable connections are looking a little weak.
Note to others: Don't fiddle with the ribbon cable too much. You will weaken the connections.
Any recommendations some good, durable wires to reconnect the capacitive pad card and controller?
Post by: xwhatsit on Thu, 28 August 2014, 00:45:28
The boards have arrived...
[attach=1]
Also included for your potatophoto viewing pleasure is the new Rev3 solenoid driver board (now with sexy routed corners! OK, and some new stuff that make it cheaper and faster to assemble):
[attach=2]
Post by: snoopy on Thu, 28 August 2014, 15:22:47
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 29 August 2014, 17:20:41
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 29 August 2014, 21:32:45
Does anyone know if these work with the 50 key Fs?
There is only one to find out...
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 29 August 2014, 21:38:44
I would if only I wasn't paying for shipping from hong kong :pDoes anyone know if these work with the 50 key Fs?
There is only one to find out...
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 29 August 2014, 22:09:02
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 29 August 2014, 22:15:22
I would if only I wasn't paying for shipping from hong kong :pDoes anyone know if these work with the 50 key Fs?
There is only one to find out...
We should have gotten together and had them all shipped to someone
Post by: xwhatsit on Sat, 30 August 2014, 02:26:29
First assembly day today! Managed to do all the surface-mount stuff—everything bar the edge connector, expansion header and grounding wire—on all 12 Beamspring controllers and both of the Displaywriter controllers.
I used a solder paste stencil for the first time, which was novel; even with all the aborted “prints” it was much easier than doing it by hand with the syringe, and produced much more consistent results, even with crappy paste “prints” on my behalf. I didn't bother purchasing a stencil just for the two Displaywriter controllers I had to do, and the contrast was marked. Well worth the money!
All of the above controllers are up and running over USB, apart from one Beamspring controller which needs some rework (one shift register inexplicably twisted 30°, fixable with a hot air gun); no drama, as that Beamspring controller is for me anyway :)
Hopefully I will be able to carry on tomorrow; will either finish off the Beamspring and Displaywriter controllers fully (need connectors soldered, some rework, testing, cleaning, then final testing) or will carry on with the reflow stuff by doing the Model F controllers.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 30 August 2014, 19:43:10
The 50-key Model F does in fact work with this controller; the Model M won't of course. Maybe Soarer's converter is an option for that?
There is only one way to find out...
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 31 August 2014, 02:41:32
The only remaining baking stuff I need to do now is the solenoid drivers, 14x of them. Of course I still have a bunch of work to do on the controllers; manual soldering of connectors, any rework, cleaning and testing. But making better progress than the first batch!
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 07 September 2014, 05:06:57
[attach=1]
I did all the final soldering yesterday and the first round of testing today. For those boards that don't need cleaning (the Model F controllers), that's all they need. I've sent out PMs to all those who just ordered Model F controllers to say I'm ready to ship.
All that remains for the other controllers and the solenoid drivers is secondary post-cleaning testing. Looks like we're well ahead of schedule this time :D
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 08 September 2014, 06:04:35
Off to cause a traffic jam at the post office tomorrow!
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 09 September 2014, 02:24:18
Sorry about the delay. I will head there first thing tomorrow morning!
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 09 September 2014, 17:14:34
All controllers shipped are flashed with 0.7.1 firmware; it's basically the same as 0.7.0 but with a minor tweak to the autocalibration which was setting threshold a bit high. The 0.7.0 utility is still compatible with that firmware, so download that. I plan to start work on 0.8.0 (with macro support) in earnest soon.
Same as last time, there's installation manuals and pre-compiled binaries for the utilities over here: http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/
Thanks everyone!
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 09 September 2014, 17:19:16
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 10 September 2014, 14:54:13
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 17 September 2014, 15:46:44
(http://i.imgur.com/XAGQsKn.jpg)
Thank you xwhatsit :thumb:
Post by: snoopy on Wed, 17 September 2014, 16:11:16
Got it today, if everything goes as planned I will have a working kishsaver by the end of the day :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XAGQsKn.jpg)
Thank you xwhatsit :thumb:
Have fun! That controller is just awesome. :D
Programming it and see how your kish finally reacts on keystrokes is totally awesome.
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 17 September 2014, 16:13:50
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 17 September 2014, 17:01:53
Got it today, if everything goes as planned I will have a working kishsaver by the end of the day :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XAGQsKn.jpg)
Thank you xwhatsit :thumb:
Have fun! That controller is just awesome. :D
Programming it and see how your kish finally reacts on keystrokes is totally awesome.
Man there's some ugly soldering on that purple turd. I'd ask for my money back if I were you.Didnt know you could see my soldering already :-[
:P
Typing this post on the kishsaver right now, I cant believe I am actually typing on it XD
Post by: snoopy on Wed, 17 September 2014, 17:11:30
Typing this post on the kishsaver right now, I cant believe I am actually typing on it XD
I thought exactly the same :D
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 17 September 2014, 17:12:51
Post by: Halvar on Wed, 17 September 2014, 17:27:30
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 17 September 2014, 18:10:52
Post by: sleepy916 on Wed, 17 September 2014, 20:32:24
Post by: Daspartic on Wed, 17 September 2014, 22:07:19
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 18 September 2014, 19:39:16
Only issue I'm having is that I'm having trouble getting my "1" being picked up. It seems to be picked up by the utility intermittently and I'm not sure how to fix it.
So I finally had the chance to open the board up and look at the flippy. Turns out the flippy on 1 was chipped so when I opened the case, a little metal bit fell out. I swapped in a new flippy and it works like a charm now!
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 21 September 2014, 20:41:42
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 21 September 2014, 21:04:09
Can anyone confirm this works on the 107 key 4704? Thanks.
I'm also wondering this. I'm also interested in buying another if it does. xwhatsit, you should just open a storefront. :))
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 22 September 2014, 09:41:13
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 22 September 2014, 10:19:45
Anybody take these for a spin on the 50-key matrix boards? Has this topic been covered before?
I'll test that once it comes in the mail
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 22 September 2014, 10:25:19
Anybody take these for a spin on the 50-key matrix boards? Has this topic been covered before?
I'll test that once it comes in the mail
I should have ordered more than 1 F controller... :-[
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 22 September 2014, 10:40:25
Anybody take these for a spin on the 50-key matrix boards? Has this topic been covered before?
I'll test that once it comes in the mail
I should have ordered more than 1 F controller... :-[
I ordered 3, but I still need more
Unsaver, tinsaver, 50 key and now that 107 key.....
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 22 September 2014, 15:18:34
Edit, totally didn't realize that I had already posted this question :( my bad.
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 22 September 2014, 19:20:36
The 50-key and the 107-key should both work. I'm down to buy a 107-key (not here on GH, but somebody on DT has also discovered a big stash, including piles of 50-keys and beamsprings as well).
I've ordered PILES of controller PCBs through a somewhat lower-quality (but very cheap) Chinese fab. Once I've finished off the Amkey-USB capsense controller (hopefully just a matter of assembling it) and I've put together a couple of these Model-F-USB and Beamspring-USB controllers from this new fab to test they're up to scratch, I'll open up Batch 3. I might do these a bit more ad-hoc... maybe buy a big stock of components and just build them as they arrive. I'm going to be flat out with “other stuff” towards the end of the year so I may have to do these in smaller groups just to retain some sanity.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 23 September 2014, 07:47:48
house broken into and laptop stolen amongst other things
Sorry to hear that :(. I'm sure people won't mind if you get your personal stuff in order before continuing building and making your controllers.
Post by: Halvar on Tue, 23 September 2014, 08:13:55
house broken into and laptop stolen amongst other things
That sucks. Hope the insurance covers the material damage at least.
Post by: Touch_It on Tue, 23 September 2014, 10:44:09
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 23 September 2014, 10:45:00
Sorry late reply, not such a good day yesterday (house broken into and laptop stolen amongst other things).
The 50-key and the 107-key should both work. I'm down to buy a 107-key (not here on GH, but somebody on DT has also discovered a big stash, including piles of 50-keys and beamsprings as well).
I've ordered PILES of controller PCBs through a somewhat lower-quality (but very cheap) Chinese fab. Once I've finished off the Amkey-USB capsense controller (hopefully just a matter of assembling it) and I've put together a couple of these Model-F-USB and Beamspring-USB controllers from this new fab to test they're up to scratch, I'll open up Batch 3. I might do these a bit more ad-hoc... maybe buy a big stock of components and just build them as they arrive. I'm going to be flat out with “other stuff” towards the end of the year so I may have to do these in smaller groups just to retain some sanity.
That REALLY sucks. I hope the police recover your items or insurance pays out to buy new.
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 28 September 2014, 05:26:50
I feel like I should write a little update w.r.t. the work I'm doing on the firmware.
I've started a fairly major reorganisation, spurred on by the discovery Windows chokes on the media keys and that there might be some easy performance gains on the road to macros.
I've now split out the capsense scanning stuff so it runs on a very regular interrupt (hard coded at 100us for each column for now; this works out to 435Hz, 625Hz and 833Hz for the Beamspring, Model-F and 12-column Displaywriter respectively; I may make the scanrate tweakable if necessary, but I don't think it really is...). This is nice, because: a) the capsense stuff has a big sleep in the middle of it, which sucks up valuable time we could be assembling HID reports or fiddling with macros etc., and b) it keeps things very regular with no jitter, which the capsense stuff really likes (if the capacitors never drain fully sometimes normally—possible if the scan rate is a bit fast—then it's bad if you have a big delay. Possibly the cause of first-column trickiness I saw with the early beamspring stuff).
Splitting it out into a dedicated interrupt—kind of like old-school multitasking/threading—means I have the liberty to assemble a big unified scancode image (saving a previous copy of it for later macro goodies) and then generate the appropriate HID reports as I please. This makes adding the new "Extrakey" report (name pinched from Hasu :) ) for the media keys much easier. This is the new report that I now learn is required to make Windows use the media keys (no other OS has a problem with them the way they were). There will now be four USB reports; boot-mode keyboard, NKRO keyboard, diagnostic/util interface and extrakey/media keys report.
Oddly enough Windows always requests all the reports, even when it doesn't really need them. It doesn't ever do anything with the boot-mode report (as it's all nulled out, Soarer style), but it still wants it sent. This isn't really ideal as it wastes time within the controller, although much less than it used to with the new scanning style. One option is to do what the TMK firmware does, which leaves only the NKRO interface enabled, unless the BIOS sends SetProtocol to turn on the boot-mode interface. This has the drawback of if you have the keyboard plugged in when it boots, it will stay in boot-mode (non-NKRO), as OSes don't send SetProtocol. TMK has a magic key combination (LeftShift + RightShift + N) which enables NKRO but this seems a bit manual... Maybe I'll just let Windows waste trillions of cycles by needlessly asking for the boot-mode report (and diagnostic report even when the util isn't running).
This version is already going to be incompatible with 0.7 as it no longer keeps all scancodes in memory, instead loading the current layer from EEPROM when required. This obviates the need for "Store scancodes in EEPROM", because as soon as you change the scancode it writes it. This will be v0.8; I'll release it before the macro stuff (which will now be 0.9); macros isare partially completed but still need a fair amount of polishing (and a GUI written).
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 29 September 2014, 21:27:01
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 29 September 2014, 23:15:03
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 30 September 2014, 05:48:38
Was that column working before? This was the controller/keyboard that you had the ribbon cable fail on? The controller should be OK... if it was working before it still should be. Most likely a bad solder connection on the keyboard-side of the wiring; I'd just check that the solder has wetted the joint nicely and you didn't lift a trace when you desoldered the ribbon cable. With those old 1980s PCBs they will be a bit tarnished and the copper foil isn't as tightly stuck to the fibreglass compared to newer PCBs. If you've got a multimeter use the continuity function to check between the controller and the pad on the board (try not to touch the wire itself if you can help it).
It's the Kishsaver. The column was working before I replaced the ribbon cable with individual wires. The copper foil on the capacitive pad card seems to be alright, but I will add solder to connection on both ends and see what that does.
I've got a multimeter, but I don't exactly understand how to use it.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 30 September 2014, 07:07:08
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 30 September 2014, 16:36:52
It's possible there is a controller issue now with one of the shift registers' outputs, if there was a dry joint before that was working during my testing and while you initially set it up, but with all of the desoldering etc. may have flexed loose.
Maybe check if the controller is actually still firing on that column. If you have a multimeter, setting it to voltage mode and measuing between 0V (any of the gold mounting points) and the column—on the controller itself—you should see an averaged voltage. It will likely be very low as each column is pulsed only very briefly (I just tried it with a beamspring controller and got 56mV) but it will be more than 0V. Try the columns that are working and see if you see a difference. My multimeter is cheap and crappy but it also has a frequency mode (Hz); it also responds to columns by outputting the scan rate (~430 Hz in this case).
If you have a hard time trying to measure that I'll see if I can do some new firmware which will raise each column high and low for seconds at a time so you get a chance to measure it better.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 30 September 2014, 17:55:53
Hmmm... I don't think reloading the firmware will help. Silly question but you don't have a column skip set on that column by mistake?
It's possible there is a controller issue now with one of the shift registers' outputs, if there was a dry joint before that was working during my testing and while you initially set it up, but with all of the desoldering etc. may have flexed loose.
Maybe check if the controller is actually still firing on that column. If you have a multimeter, setting it to voltage mode and measuing between 0V (any of the gold mounting points) and the column—on the controller itself—you should see an averaged voltage. It will likely be very low as each column is pulsed only very briefly (I just tried it with a beamspring controller and got 56mV) but it will be more than 0V. Try the columns that are working and see if you see a difference. My multimeter is cheap and crappy but it also has a frequency mode (Hz); it also responds to columns by outputting the scan rate (~430 Hz in this case).
If you have a hard time trying to measure that I'll see if I can do some new firmware which will raise each column high and low for seconds at a time so you get a chance to measure it better.
Thanks for the help. No, the column skip is not on. I thought about that bonehead move as well.
I can't seem to get the multimeter to read anything, but then again, I have no clue how to use a multimeter. Like I'm plugging it into electrical sockets and stuff trying to get a reading. I think I will get back to you once I figure out how to use a multimeter.
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 30 September 2014, 19:25:27
I don't mind sending you a new controller and you can send the one you've got back; I don't have any bits to put one together right now, but will be receiving new PCBs in the next couple of days hopefully. If I'm not flying overseas for work over the next couple of days or this weekend that may be a possibility. At least that will rule one thing out of the equation.
BTW: do you have the pinout for the rows/columns? If you check the installation manual it's there in the first section I think.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 30 September 2014, 20:09:08
Bugger!
I don't mind sending you a new controller and you can send the one you've got back; I don't have any bits to put one together right now, but will be receiving new PCBs in the next couple of days hopefully. If I'm not flying overseas for work over the next couple of days or this weekend that may be a possibility. At least that will rule one thing out of the equation.
BTW: do you have the pinout for the rows/columns? If you check the installation manual it's there in the first section I think.
We should discuss this more over PM. I'll get to you when I have the chance.
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 01 October 2014, 03:49:30
The tricky one remains (as always!) the boot-mode vs NKRO mode reports. Windows still demands the boot-mode, but I'm not so keen on sending it needlessly. Kuato also mentioned that his BIOS was getting doubled key-presses, which may imply his BIOS is smart enough to understand the NKRO report too, but it's stlil getting both. Long and short of it is now I've got the firmware listening to SetProtocol, which the BIOS will use to set boot-mode, and I'll then refuse to send the NKRO report. Of course the firmware has to switch over to the NKRO report after the OS has booted. It seems (at least from my testing on Linux and Win 7 x64) that the OS should do a USB interface reset; I listen out for this and set the keyboard back to NKRO. I may need to implement a magic keycode to force this à la TMK controller, but I'll see if we can get away with it first. This may need some volunteers for testing :))
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 01 October 2014, 19:23:54
Also, is it not supposed to follow what you think a column/row keyboard would look like? I have 1# in row 2, and #2 in row 1.... stuff like that
Also forgot where I put all my tinsaver hardware (screws to put the case together as well as those black plastic spacers)...
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 01 October 2014, 19:35:54
The position of the keys within the matrix are basically what IBM decided to do when they designed the keyboard decades ago... there are a lot of variations, especially with the beamsprings but even in the Model Fs. They don't always put the keys on the row/column where you'd think they'd be. It seems quite common with the Model Fs to follow the strange pattern you see, where keys on the same row will be side-by-side, then up-and-down, then side-by-side again etc. Even two very similar 3278 beamsprings—one with numpad and one without—might have an almost unrecognisable matrix layout compared to each other. I'm assuming IBM didn't do things on a whim but it certainly looks like it sometimes :D
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 01 October 2014, 19:37:58
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 01 October 2014, 19:41:18
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 01 October 2014, 19:49:52
Do you think that could have been because it flexed the controller closer to the case and caused a short? The USB cable being wrapped around something shouldn't affect anything really unless it was a really crap unshielded cable emitting tonnes of EMI but I wouldn't have thought that was likely.I guess it's possible, I am really not sure what happened but it did. There was no tension on the controller or the usb plug on the controller so it shouldn't have moved it at all.
This thing is awesome though, I got it all setup and programmed and it works like a charm.
Here is a video I posted on OCN around a week ago of this controller in action (With the buzzer)
I have a new keycap set on order from unicomp, only thing left is new powdercoat :P
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 01 October 2014, 20:01:44
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 01 October 2014, 20:05:35
Hahah that's pretty awesome. I didn't know the buzzer was so high-pitched. Very cool!It is REALLY loud, although I have it turned all the way up lol
This keyboard was meant to be used every now and then as something fun and once I figured out how to setup the buzzer it just made it 10 times more fun :D
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 01 October 2014, 20:23:29
We've seen this with a couple of Kishsavers so far, where they work out of the case but when are installed stop working. The reason (in all situations so far at least) is that the Kishsaver case is metal and quite cramped. It's possible to have shorts etc. to the case, which will screw with the sensing obviously. People have fixed it either by putting some insulation tape across it to stop the shorts, or trimming stuff a bit closer.
The position of the keys within the matrix are basically what IBM decided to do when they designed the keyboard decades ago... there are a lot of variations, especially with the beamsprings but even in the Model Fs. They don't always put the keys on the row/column where you'd think they'd be. It seems quite common with the Model Fs to follow the strange pattern you see, where keys on the same row will be side-by-side, then up-and-down, then side-by-side again etc. Even two very similar 3278 beamsprings—one with numpad and one without—might have an almost unrecognisable matrix layout compared to each other. I'm assuming IBM didn't do things on a whim but it certainly looks like it sometimes :D
Alright, I'll have to play around with some kapton tape once I get the case done.
The layout thing makes reprogramming a bit harder since the matrix isn't what you would expect it to be. But whatever, I don't plan on doing that too many times :D
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 01 October 2014, 20:29:09
Yeah... a couple of people have asked about putting in a fancy picture of the keyboard itself and just have click on the keys to change the scancode. The only problem with that is the sheer number and variety of keyboards that use the controllers; even I don't know half of what some of the matrices look like. I don't think I've seen a Kishsaver layout yet (I'd appreciate it if once you've got it mapped nice you could export the layout and send it to me :D ). It's possible though... but I think further down the wishlist than some of the other important things I need to do with the firmware/software.
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 01 October 2014, 20:35:42
You needn't be flash and use kapton tape; I think in a couple of the photos I posted I've used it, but only because I didn't have any electrical tape at hand and I was impatient :D
Yeah... a couple of people have asked about putting in a fancy picture of the keyboard itself and just have click on the keys to change the scancode. The only problem with that is the sheer number and variety of keyboards that use the controllers; even I don't know half of what some of the matrices look like. I don't think I've seen a Kishsaver layout yet (I'd appreciate it if once you've got it mapped nice you could export the layout and send it to me :D ). It's possible though... but I think further down the wishlist than some of the other important things I need to do with the firmware/software.
I have a ton of it on hand from another project, so I might as well use it
At this point, I'm more worried about shorts than a custom GUI for the different martixs ;D
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 01 October 2014, 22:29:01
Thanks for the amazing work! Now I just need to decide on what model F to convert next. The unsaver, the 50 key to match this tinsaver or my 107 battle ship.
Edit: Is there anyway to do a locking FN key? I'd really like to be able to lock in the arrow keys or just have a normal non-locking FN key
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 04:55:30
I'm working on compiling binaries for the utilities in Windows and Mac OS X now. As we have now ticked over from 0.7.x to 0.8.x, you will want to use a v0.8.x GUI util.
v0.8.0 has some reasonably major changes that could trip you up, so read the following and take care before flashing the new firmware:
- Move to interrupt-based scanning, leaving more time for keyboard logic during the sleep periods in the capsense stuff—this has the effect of lowering the threshold somewhat, so if you have a threshold override be careful to raise/lower it to the minimum/maximum first or load a blank layout (!!!) or you may have spammy keys all over the place
- Separate USB HID reports for media keys (volume etc.) and system keys (power off/suspend etc.); this is required for them to work in Windows
- All scancodes no longer held in RAM; only the current layer is loaded from EEPROM when needed. This means when you change a scancode with the GUI, it is updated immediately and there are no longer Store/Load Layout from EEPROM buttons
- Much better autocalibration; the code certainly makes much more sense, and now produces much more reliable results, especially when column skips are in use
- Rationalisation of USB HID reports; tries to send them only when required (even on Windows, which is very insistent)
- Related to previous item, NKRO report is now exclusive of boot-mode report; only one will be used, even if the OS demands both. SetProtocol in BIOS will select boot-mode report, and when OS does a USB protocol reset the NKRO report will be selected. The current mode is displayed in the GUI for debugging.
- Changed logic in expansion-header Caps/Num lock physical switch stuff, hopefully will now be reliable on Windows
- Key debouncing is now done with proper hysteresis instead of my what-was-I-smoking previous implementation
- Scanning is now disabled during solenoid click, so you will want to minimise your solenoid click times to retain decent keypress latency. This was a tough decision that I hope to revisit. Now that scanning takes place on an interrupt and more or less constantly, it was getting inteference from the solenoid click, so it was a choice between massively increasing the debounce cycles while the solenoid mode was used, or temporarily disabling scanning. The latter seems more snappy and leads to cleaner and faster code when the solenoid isn't used.
- Emergency Halt button in GUI to stop crazy-spammy keys in a hurry
- GUI keyboard lock/unlock button to allow keyboard usage in GUI if you like living on the edge
- GUI now handles USB comms delays and errors much more reliably and won't just crash. I hope.
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 04:56:26
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 05:40:11
Now we wait for the “my keyboard died in a fire" posts to roll in.
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 05:53:09
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 03 October 2014, 06:32:35
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 03 October 2014, 11:57:31
Oh sorry The_Beast I didn't see your edit. By locking Fn you may mean the Select keys? For example, you press Select 1 and Layer 1 is now the new default layer, until you press Select Base.
Cool! I'll give that a try
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 03 October 2014, 12:04:49
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 18:30:30
I've uploaded new Windows and Mac OS X binaries now, along with the modified source. It's still called v0.8.0 though.
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 03 October 2014, 19:21:52
Here's my base layer:
(http://i.imgur.com/A5427wV.png)
Layer 1
(http://i.imgur.com/2JCb664.png)
Layer 2
(http://i.imgur.com/O2IsVoL.png)
So, it's to my understanding that hitting Fn1 = layer one (which it's set to in layer condition) but it's quite hit or miss when entering F keys. I should be holding the FN1 key and then the 5 key to get F5, right?
Also, I have the vertical bar set to select layer two, which is basically the base layer, but with arrow keys for the right shift, alt, Fn1 and control. However, switching between the layer is also quite inconsistent. I have it set that hitting the vertical bar key in the base layer switches to layer two, and hitting the same key in layer two switches back to the base layout. Is this right?
Thanks for all the help!
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 20:22:55
Basically, you need to have Fn1 on both Base Layer and Layer 1, in the same place. I kind of (poorly) explain it Section 11.2.2 of the installation manual. The long and short of it is that Fn keys are looked at every scan on the current layer. So what it means currently is you press Fn1, it goes to Layer 1, then the next scan the same key you're holding down now is assigned (Ignored), so it will then drop back to Base Layer, where of course on the next scan you'll be back on Layer 1 again :)) The effect is it will alternate between Base Layer and Layer 1 every scan. The answer is just to put Fn1 in the same place on Layer 1 as it is on Base Layer.
I did it like this because if you think inventively you can get some cool recursive layer stuff working with limited Fn keys, getting to a fourth layer by pressing Fn keys in a certain order. But it does lead to a bit of confusion unfortunately in the simple cases when you're first setting stuff up.
EDIT: I see you also have the same problem with the Select keys. Basically the same thing is going on; you press Select 1, it immediately shifts to the next layer, the next scan, the same key is still pressed and is now Select Base, so it drops back to base layer. The easiest solution unfortunately is to put the Select key on a different key. I understand how this isn't really ideal. I will have a think about how to fix this nicely; perhaps it should work where upon releasing the Select key will move to the next layer instead of just as soon as it's pressed?
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 03 October 2014, 20:30:51
Ah yup I think I know what's happening here. Quite a few people have been stung by this and fair enough too; it was a modification I made to increase flexibility at the expense of clarity :)
Basically, you need to have Fn1 on both Base Layer and Layer 1, in the same place. I kind of (poorly) explain it Section 11.2.2 of the installation manual. The long and short of it is that Fn keys are looked at every scan on the current layer. So what it means currently is you press Fn1, it goes to Layer 1, then the next scan the same key you're holding down now is assigned (Ignored), so it will then drop back to Base Layer, where of course on the next scan you'll be back on Layer 1 again :)) The effect is it will alternate between Base Layer and Layer 1 every scan. The answer is just to put Fn1 in the same place on Layer 1 as it is on Base Layer.
I did it like this because if you think inventively you can get some cool recursive layer stuff working with limited Fn keys, getting to a fourth layer by pressing Fn keys in a certain order. But it does lead to a bit of confusion unfortunately in the simple cases when you're first setting stuff up.
That seemed to fix it. Anything for the layer lock for layer 2? It's more of an annoyance compared to the layer 1 issue since sometimes, I really need F keys (ie games)
Thanks again!
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 20:32:56
I'll have a play with making the release of a Select key trigger the layer shift...
Post by: xwhatsit on Fri, 03 October 2014, 22:04:42
http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm_capsense_usb_model-f_rev1-2_0.8.a.hex
It only pays attention to the Select keys on key-up. I tested it out on my PC-AT and I can quite happily use the same physical key for Select 1 and Select Base.
Post by: xwhatsit on Sat, 18 October 2014, 06:07:41
The GUI should be reasonably straightforward to figure out. v0.9.0 is incompatible with previous versions of the firmware (it'll probably just hang I expect). The import/export of macros is a bit rubbish at the moment; it's just dumping the raw bytes as hex, no pretty-printed syntax. I think most people will want to use the GUI though, so it's not such a priority I think.
In most cases you won't need to use the push/pop mods stuff; a simple Clear or Assign at the beginning should be enough.
Post by: 0100010 on Sat, 18 October 2014, 19:20:06
Post by: xwhatsit on Sat, 18 October 2014, 23:00:53
Yes Batch 3 has been kicked off. I've actually preordered a bunch of PCBs and components and will put these together in a more relaxed manner as orders come, rather than trying to do everything in one big hit. The components are a touch more expensive this way, but I saved cost by using a different PCB supplier. As well at the moment I'm flat out at work and home and simply can't dedicated a couple of full weekends to these suckers. Hopefully that means yours will be in the post some time next week 0100010!
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 19 October 2014, 14:56:09
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 19 October 2014, 16:24:37
Post by: tokkystyle on Sun, 19 October 2014, 17:01:15
Already closed?? I need one for my IBM F-5170
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 19 October 2014, 17:11:13
What's a F-5170 exactly? I haven't heard of one of those. Has it got a detachable controller?
I took a quick look on Google and it seems it might be like a normal PC-AT Model F, is that right?
EDIT: Ah I see, the 5170 was the model code for the IBM PC AT. So it is just a standard PC-AT. The controller will definitely work well with that. I'll put you down for one on my spreadsheet; I'll be in contact over the next day or two with an invoice. Cheers!
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 19 October 2014, 17:16:51
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 19 October 2014, 17:25:31
Post by: tokkystyle on Sun, 19 October 2014, 17:35:44
when you ready, please tell me detail how to purchase .
See u soon
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 19 October 2014, 17:58:18
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 19 October 2014, 21:19:44
Any idea on pricing for this round? I think I saw you say that you had tried a cheaper manufacturer, so I'm not sure if pricing has changed. :)
Post by: tokkystyle on Mon, 20 October 2014, 03:07:14
Thank you for useful information. I will try tensy first.
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 20 October 2014, 04:45:28
I'm interested in ordering 3 Model F controllers if you're still accepting orders for round 3. :thumb:Yeah I was kind of tossing up about that... I am saving a few dollars on each board now, but my wife keeps telling me I'm selling them too cheap :D I think you're right though, I'll reprice the controllers at $45 each. I'd better get back to 0100010 to refund some of his super-speedy payment!
Any idea on pricing for this round? I think I saw you say that you had tried a cheaper manufacturer, so I'm not sure if pricing has changed. :)
3x controllers, blimey! What have you picked up?
I thought replace original controller is only way to remapping AT keyboard.Good luck! In some ways it might be easier than my controller, you only have to solder a couple of wires instead of 30 :D
Thank you for useful information. I will try tensy first.
Here is tonight's haul... I'm really liking the white soldermask, it goes well with the black and silver of the components (although really shows up any leftover flux and solderballs if the solder printing wasn't accurate!):
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 20 October 2014, 08:38:10
I'm interested in ordering 3 Model F controllers if you're still accepting orders for round 3. :thumb:Yeah I was kind of tossing up about that... I am saving a few dollars on each board now, but my wife keeps telling me I'm selling them too cheap :D I think you're right though, I'll reprice the controllers at $45 each. I'd better get back to 0100010 to refund some of his super-speedy payment!
Any idea on pricing for this round? I think I saw you say that you had tried a cheaper manufacturer, so I'm not sure if pricing has changed. :)
3x controllers, blimey! What have you picked up?
Excellent, great to hear! Thank you for selling these at a reasonable price, despite your wife's advice. :D My wallet thanks you. :))
I picked up two more 4704 boards (107-key and 50-key), and I figure I'll keep the third as a spare / backup in case I get another board. :thumb:
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 23 October 2014, 12:30:32
Post by: xwhatsit on Thu, 23 October 2014, 15:43:14
When you get the controller (I'll have to post them on Tuesday now, I had forgot Monday is a public holiday in NZ damnit!) I'd still just check the keys are corresponding to the row/columns you think they are in the status view before mapping the keys, as there have been a couple of surprises before (e.g. Displaywriter with the interleaved rows). Things can get very confusing if you've already set up all the keys :D
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 23 October 2014, 17:10:38
G, G, R1-8, G, G, C1-15, Skip, G, G
Post by: Vizir on Thu, 23 October 2014, 21:10:06
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 23 October 2014, 21:37:31
But - it is nice to have options. :)
Post by: Vizir on Thu, 23 October 2014, 22:34:18
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 27 October 2014, 21:01:04
[attach=1]
Everybody who ordered and confirmed now has parcels in the post (apart from terrpn, who is still waiting for delivery of his keyboard). I've got a handful of bits left and can build a couple more controllers of different types, but will be travelling for a week, leaving in a couple of days, so they may have to wait until after then.
Thanks everybody!
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:06:54
Post by: 0100010 on Mon, 03 November 2014, 19:58:41
Post by: ComradeSniper on Mon, 03 November 2014, 20:48:25
Post by: 0100010 on Mon, 03 November 2014, 21:02:36
Anyone know if the duration values matter for the 4704 buzzer?
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 03 November 2014, 22:24:19
Post by: 0100010 on Wed, 05 November 2014, 08:15:58
My 107 is what I am working on now // I think I have determined that the windows key is LeftGUI (just manually edited the hex value for that key position in the layout file).
Anyone know if the duration values matter for the 4704 buzzer?
Quoting myself, just to add that I learned from xwhatsit that you need to have different values in the expansion header tab for the 4704 buzzer to work properly. Defaults are 255/255 - and doesn't work. He suggested 20/40ms - and that works perfectly.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:41:08
Post by: Vizir on Sat, 15 November 2014, 16:07:09
Post by: Touch_It on Sat, 15 November 2014, 18:20:38
Post by: xwhatsit on Sun, 16 November 2014, 01:45:58
I do still have solenoid drivers and Beamspring controllers, however.
Post by: Vizir on Sun, 16 November 2014, 10:00:09
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 16 November 2014, 10:02:00
Post by: geniekid on Sat, 22 November 2014, 11:46:15
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 18 January 2015, 13:37:32
Post by: Parak on Sun, 18 January 2015, 13:53:01
Having a hell of a time soldering in my new controller. Any suggestions for getting all 30 wires into the new controller?
Hm, I didn't have any particular issues especially as the holes are oversized and the cable is sufficiently stiff. When I did the xwhatsit for a friend, the original controller came off, then the new one just simply fit immediately. But basically, use some tweezers to line up the wires as horizontally as possible, with even spacing. Try your best not to stress the connection at the matrix pcb while you do this. Put the controller on the first few wires, and pinch them off using something like a binder clip perhaps. Then stuff the others in using tweezers as needed. Solder one or two pins as close as possible to the ribbon (again to reduce stress), then repeat on the other side. Solder middle pins, etc.
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 18 January 2015, 16:16:29
Having a hell of a time soldering in my new controller. Any suggestions for getting all 30 wires into the new controller?
Hm, I didn't have any particular issues especially as the holes are oversized and the cable is sufficiently stiff. When I did the xwhatsit for a friend, the original controller came off, then the new one just simply fit immediately. But basically, use some tweezers to line up the wires as horizontally as possible, with even spacing. Try your best not to stress the connection at the matrix pcb while you do this. Put the controller on the first few wires, and pinch them off using something like a binder clip perhaps. Then stuff the others in using tweezers as needed. Solder one or two pins as close as possible to the ribbon (again to reduce stress), then repeat on the other side. Solder middle pins, etc.
If I would (could) have done a good desoldering job I'm sure it would have been easy. However I realize I really suck at this and did a very poor job of de-soldering so the wires were all mangled. However with some persistence I prevailed. I would line up 4-5 wires in the holes at a time (using tweezers when needed) and solder. Rinse and repeat. Its not pretty but I think I got it properly soldered in. Your advice definitely Helped Parak. I just wish I had more experience soldering. Also wish my hands didn't get shaky whenever I start soldering lol.
Post by: echo0 on Sat, 24 January 2015, 15:40:58
Thanks...
Post by: blueSmoke on Fri, 30 January 2015, 12:33:04
http://www.ebay.com/sch/bitsasd/m.html?rmvSB=true&item=221676634827&afsrc=1&_from=R40|R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=displaywriter+keyboard&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/sch/bitsasd/m.html?rmvSB=true&item=221676634827&afsrc=1&_from=R40|R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=displaywriter+keyboard&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc)
There is also a chance that the other sellers who are hoarding displaywriters are going to sell looking at the hefty prices these are going in EBay.
xwhatsit: Is the batch3 still open or are you planning to make another batch?
I can make my own from the PCB, but would rather get it made by the creator.
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:03:08
Post by: xwhatsit on Sat, 31 January 2015, 17:39:08
I'm personally out of Model F PCBs and don't really intend to order any more; between this (http://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/around-50-xwhatsit-model-f-usb-controllers-30-each-shipping-t9093.html) guy and another guy who will have plenty more ready there's no need for me to build those. In fact for that price, if I need any more myself I'll just get one of those :)
Post by: blueSmoke on Sat, 31 January 2015, 19:24:58
Post by: xwhatsit on Mon, 02 February 2015, 00:20:50
I've got a reasonable amount of solenoid drivers left. You only need them for the solenoids or the Displaywriter's speaker (not that the speaker will be that exciting, it'll be like the original IBM unit in that it'll just click).
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 02 February 2015, 00:23:27
Post by: xwhatsit on Wed, 04 February 2015, 14:30:34
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 04 February 2015, 14:36:27
Yep, I use a Model-F-USB prototype in my PC-AT. That said, it would probably be cheaper and easier to use Soarer's converter, especially with those nifty inline converters I see popping up. I only use one in my PC-AT because it's handy for debugging (LEDs!) and "when all you have is a hammer..."
Thanks xwhatsit. I actually already have my xwhatsit controller installed and am testing/setting up right now. I did the ANSI mod but kept the long space bar and I converted the numpad area into a 4x5 matrix so for me with my very limited knowledge on coding, using stuff between CMD and windows stuffs, the GUI tool seemed well worth the extra cost.
This is my layout. (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@=Esc&=Delete&_x:0.5%3B&=~%0A%60&_t=%23fb0006%3B&=F1%0A1&=F2%0A2&=F3%0A3&=F4%0A4&=F5%0A5&=F6%0A6&=F7%0A7&=F8%0A8&=F9%0A9&=F10%0A0&=F11%0A-&=F12%0A%2F=&_t=%23000000&w:2%3B&=Backspace&_x:0.5%3B&=7%0AHome&=8%0A%E2%86%91&=9%0APgUp&_t=%23fb0006%3B&=Enter%0A+&_x:3&t=%23000000%3B&=Insert%3B&@=Home&=End&_x:0.5&w:1.5%3B&=Tab&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&=%7B%0A%5B&=%7D%0A%5D&_w:1.5%3B&=%7C%0A%5C&_x:0.5%3B&=4%0A%E2%86%90&=5&=6%0A%E2%86%92&=*%3B&@=PgUp&=Vol%20+&_x:0.5&w:1.75%3B&=Ctrl&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%2F:%0A%2F%3B&=%22%0A'&_w:2.25%3B&=Enter&_x:0.5%3B&=1%0AEnd&=2%0A%E2%86%93&=3%0APgDn&=-%3B&@=PgDn&=Vol%20-&_x:0.5&w:2.25%3B&=Shift&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M&=%3C%0A,&=%3E%0A.&=%3F%0A%2F%2F&_w:2.75%3B&=Shift&_x:0.5%3B&=0%0AIns&=%E2%86%91&=.%0ADel&=%2F%2F%3B&@_t=%23ff151c%3B&=CpLck%0APrtSc&_t=%23000000%3B&=Fn&_x:0.5&w:1.5%3B&=Alt&_x:1&w:10%3B&=&_x:1&w:1.5%3B&=Win&_x:0.5%3B&=%E2%86%90&=%E2%86%93&=%E2%86%92&=Num%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0ALock) The legends in red indicate function layer of the top legend.
Post by: blueSmoke on Mon, 16 February 2015, 16:32:02
I ordered 10 Displaywriter PCBs just in case.
I've got a reasonable amount of solenoid drivers left. You only need them for the solenoids or the Displaywriter's speaker (not that the speaker will be that exciting, it'll be like the original IBM unit in that it'll just click).
Thanks xwhatsit. Keeping fingers crossed and my displaywriter is waiting for the transplant. Scared to even open it to clean, and will do so after I get the controller.