[IC] SA Symbiosis R2 - Group Buy Coming Soon

[ruhe]

I'm definitely interested in buying this -- especially that ErgoDox kit! I love that it has non-specific legends that are based on the theme of the set and not just blank keys.

[salasource]

Looks good! I would very much like to see R3 1.25U Light font FN and R2 1U Light font DEL to be added in 40% kit.

If the font color is same for all mods then R3 1.25U FN is not needed because you can fill this spot out with some other keys from bottom row, if you don't like to use R3 1.25U TAB.

[cfiggis]

About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?

With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!

Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was confused reading that part of the thread, but I'm relatively new to this sort of thing. Could someone explain this? The Hyper7 seems like the perfect board to match these keys, and it already seems like several people in this thread would be interested in a keyset for it. So why wouldn't it be worth investigating this option?

[Jae-3soteric]

About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?

With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!

Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was confused reading that part of the thread, but I'm relatively new to this sort of thing. Could someone explain this? The Hyper7 seems like the perfect board to match these keys, and it already seems like several people in this thread would be interested in a keyset for it. So why wouldn't it be worth investigating this option?

I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UsualSuspectXXX]

About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?

With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!

Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's unfortunate.

[ArdentHandsaw]

Given SP's lead time and 7bit's track record, this set should slot in nicely about a year after GMK Space Cadet and four years before R7 starts to ship.

[Puddsy]

Given SP's lead time and 7bit's track record, this set should slot in nicely about a year after GMK Space Cadet and four years before R7 starts to ship.

SP's lead time is under 6 months now for SA

and what are you on about 7bit? he's not even in this one

[unmuscular_michael]

Two please.

[Techno Trousers]

I'm interested. Love that symbolics color scheme, especially with sphericals, centered legends, and vertical placement of alternates (not a jab at the GMK project).

[xondat]

I'm interested. Love that symbolics color scheme, especially with sphericals, centered legends, and vertical placement of alternates (not a jab at the GMK project).

We should have offset on SA and centered on GMK honestly. That'll confuse some future enthusiasts.

[nuclear_wizard]

Set looks great! This would definitely be my choice for way to order this set. GMK just doesn't have that early terminal look and feel and 7bit's GB system is impossible to figure out. But what is going on with the "up" pointing hand in the hands kit? Not a fan of it being a separate color.

I'm another vote to reconsider Hyper7 support.

[Lepidus]

So, are you making the legends smaller, like symbiosis, or bigger like 7bit SC? Personally, I prefer the bigger font.

[cfiggis]

I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, I understood that he said no. I was trying to understand his reason why he said no. It sounded like it was because he didn't want to step on the toes of someone involved with the Hyper7, but it sounds like that's you, and you weren't opposed. Anyway, that's all. Hopefully we can convince him to change his mind. I think this could be a pretty popular combo.

[xondat]

I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, I understood that he said no. I was trying to understand his reason why he said no. It sounded like it was because he didn't want to step on the toes of someone involved with the Hyper7, but it sounds like that's you, and you weren't opposed. Anyway, that's all. Hopefully we can convince him to change his mind. I think this could be a pretty popular combo.

7bit made the Hyper7 extension based off the original boards, so it's 7bit's creation. Jon simply made a build around 7bit's Hyper7.

I think OP wants to do stuff based off the original boards solely.

[Puddsy]

I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, I understood that he said no. I was trying to understand his reason why he said no. It sounded like it was because he didn't want to step on the toes of someone involved with the Hyper7, but it sounds like that's you, and you weren't opposed. Anyway, that's all. Hopefully we can convince him to change his mind. I think this could be a pretty popular combo.

7bit made the Hyper7 extension based off the original boards, so it's 7bit's creation. Jon simply made a build around 7bit's Hyper7.

I think OP wants to do stuff based off the original boards solely.

i got the same vibe

[Techno Trousers]

So, are you making the legends smaller, like symbiosis, or bigger like 7bit SC? Personally, I prefer the bigger font.

Show Image

I prefer the bigger and bolder font as well--it looks more like the original Space Cadet keyboard. Are we limited to whatever molds SP has leftover from the first run, or are new molds being produced for this run?

[zslane]

You'd have to get 7bit's permission to use 7bit's legend molds.

[Puddsy]

You'd have to get 7bit's permission to use 7bit's legend molds.

he's been pretty generous with them in the past, calm depths uses them

[zslane]

That's very encouraging.

However, given his open disdain for Symbiosis, this project might face a bit of resistance. But I hope he says yes.

[Puddsy]

That's very encouraging.

However, given his open disdain for Symbiosis, this project might face a bit of resistance. But I hope he says yes.

we'll see

[Techno Trousers]

Fingers and toes crossed!

[hhkbp2]

@beekey @online

The spacebars kit and spacekeys kit are added. Please let me know if you guys have any further idea on them.

[hhkbp2]

About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?

With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!

Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was confused reading that part of the thread, but I'm relatively new to this sort of thing. Could someone explain this? The Hyper7 seems like the perfect board to match these keys, and it already seems like several people in this thread would be interested in a keyset for it. So why wouldn't it be worth investigating this option?

I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hyper7 is an impressed setup which is in old-school style, with so many keys. And it's easy to tell you guys have so much love and passion for it. Thank you for telling me so much infos so that I got to know it. As I talked to Jon_Flynn about it before, the reason that I said no for adding it to the Symbiosis R2 was because it's a layout created by 7bit in R6. It's not from the original space-cadet keyboard, which is off the design of Symbiosis R2. It would cross the line if Symbiosis R2 tries to replace 7bit by providing what's particular in R6. It just "feel awfully redundant" (quoting zslane) if Symbiosis R2 is just a complementary way to get what's provided by 7bit already. It's odd to imagine that there is a "7bit" key in the Symbiosis R2 if Hyper7 kit is added.

Regarding to asking permission from 7bit, I think it's much easier to ask 7bit to provide Hyper7 layout directly to guys, rather than to ask him to give the permission to the seem-to-be competitive Symbiosis GB. Does this sound reasonable?

On the other hand, if there is enough interest to replicate the original space-cadet keyboard, like zslane mentioned before, it would be a new area that Symbiosis R2 might kick in. I'm not sure how you Hyper7 fans would like that. It would not cover the whole Hyper7 layout if a space-cadet layout kit is added.

[Techno Trousers]

What about the idea of just asking 7bit for permission to use his superior molds for this run? I think if you use the 7bit molds but keep the flavor of symbiosis and the proposed novelties, this would be a perfect homage to space cadet.

[Oblotzky]

I spoke with 7bit once about borrowing molds. The only condition was that it's a private group buy, via forum or other means. No vendor, especially not Massdrop. Doubt his mind has changed on that.

AFAIK he allowed a re-run of R6 novelties (lotus, runner, hashbang etc) in China.

[cijanzen]

Would go for Symbolic modifiers. It's what makes this set worthwhile!

[Techno Trousers]

I spoke with 7bit once about borrowing molds. The only condition was that it's a private group buy, via forum or other means. No vendor, especially not Massdrop. Doubt his mind has changed on that.

AFAIK he allowed a re-run of R6 novelties (lotus, runner, hashbang etc) in China.

That's fantastic news. I'd dub such a "best of both worlds" set 7biosis!

[Oblotzky]

I spoke with 7bit once about borrowing molds. The only condition was that it's a private group buy, via forum or other means. No vendor, especially not Massdrop. Doubt his mind has changed on that.

AFAIK he allowed a re-run of R6 novelties (lotus, runner, hashbang etc) in China.

That's fantastic news. I'd dub such a "best of both worlds" set 7biosis!

Well with the amount of kits OP has going on, I don't see a buy without a vendor happening...

[Techno Trousers]

Well with the amount of kits OP has going on, I don't see a buy without a vendor happening...

Darn. I guess we'll have to wait for him to answer this one.

[zslane]

Regarding to asking permission from 7bit, I think it's much easier to ask 7bit to provide Hyper7 layout directly to guys, rather than to ask him to give the permission to the seem-to-be competitive Symbiosis GB. Does this sound reasonable?

7bit only had a handful of Hyper7 keycap sets made, and they are pretty much gone. Running all new keycaps is really the only option.

[redsoap2]

I am very interested, thank you for running an interest check.

[nightdriver]

think i'm in.  i've got the original run, but i kinda prefer it sculpted.

[schmoktopus]

7bit only had a handful of Hyper7 keycap sets made, and they are pretty much gone. Running all new keycaps is really the only option.

From what I have heard, there are only 4 to 5 Hyper7 sets in existence. So yeah, it really is impossible to obtain them.

[bun]

Any chance of another 4 mod keys to take it from M1-M16 ?

This could be good for those with a roadkit or any other macro pad looking for a set of 16 macro keys to match their full keyboard layout (like me  ).

Also, definitely interested (nice to see those vim keys in there).

[hhkbp2]

nice

suggestion: option for all mods to be white on blue or a white on blue lower mods pack

imo the black on blue doesn't look great, i know that's how it is on the orig but i think all white on blue might be cool.

maybe some other novelties like the triangle, circle, and square you see on other symbolics keyboards in various size keys.

Black on blue first  2 rows mods is the only way it should be done.

Black on blue looks nice in the original space-cadet keyboard and Symbiosis R1. It should be the default config on the Modifiers kit, considering we would try to emulate the space-cadet keyboard. About adding a white on blue kit for those modifiers key, is it enough to just add them just for Modifiers kit? How about Extension kit, 40s kit and the other kits then? Its concerns me that if too many kits are added to the existing so many kits, it would explode.

Thereminz: Regarding to some other novelties that you mentioned, do you have any specific idea about what novelties you would like to get, with what shapes for icons and what sizes and profiles? Some Symbolics keyboards have 2u triangle, circle, and square on the top, but 2u R1 doesn't seem to be a good combination for novelties. Let us know if you have any further idea.

[hhkbp2]

So, are you making the legends smaller, like symbiosis, or bigger like 7bit SC? Personally, I prefer the bigger font.

Show Image

Good observation. I did not ever notice this. Are you sure it's not caused by the angle and distance taking these photos? Could anyone who have both sets in hands confirm this font size difference?

[ihalatch]

nice

suggestion: option for all mods to be white on blue or a white on blue lower mods pack

imo the black on blue doesn't look great, i know that's how it is on the orig but i think all white on blue might be cool.

maybe some other novelties like the triangle, circle, and square you see on other symbolics keyboards in various size keys.

Black on blue first  2 rows mods is the only way it should be done.

Black on blue looks nice in the original space-cadet keyboard and Symbiosis R1. It should be the default config on the Modifiers kit, considering we would try to emulate the space-cadet keyboard. About adding a white on blue kit for those modifiers key, is it enough to just add them just for Modifiers kit? How about Extension kit, 40s kit and the other kits then? Its concerns me that if too many kits are added to the existing so many kits, it would explode.

Thereminz: Regarding to some other novelties that you mentioned, do you have any specific idea about what novelties you would like to get, with what shapes for icons and what sizes and profiles? Some Symbolics keyboards have 2u triangle, circle, and square on the top, but 2u R1 doesn't seem to be a good combination for novelties. Let us know if you have any further idea.

If I were you I'd add them only for the basic modifiers. Too many of them it will drive the price through the roof.

[hhkbp2]

7bit only had a handful of Hyper7 keycap sets made, and they are pretty much gone. Running all new keycaps is really the only option.

From what I have heard, there are only 4 to 5 Hyper7 sets in existence. So yeah, it really is impossible to obtain them.

That doesn't mean Symbiosis R2 is the right place or best chance to run the Hyper7 keycaps. I'm not familiar with 7bit's GB. If you guys want to get 7bit's creation, and what's already provided in his GB, is it the easiest and simplest way just ask 7bit to run that?

IMO It's not wise to make Symbiosis R2 become a redundant way to get 7bit's creation. It just doesn't feel right even if 7bit bountifully says "Yes, you get my permission to produce everything without any condition".

[pomk]

So, are you making the legends smaller, like symbiosis, or bigger like 7bit SC? Personally, I prefer the bigger font.

Show Image

Good observation. I did not ever notice this. Are you sure it's not caused by the angle and distance taking these photos? Could anyone who have both sets in hands confirm this font size difference?

7bit did make a completely new set of molds for r6. The symbiosis molds that you currently have access to are r3 only. So unless you get permission from 7bit, you will have to somehow finance 20 or so new molds for this, or be faithful to the original and go with r3 only.

[zslane]

That's correct. 7bit's Round 6 legends are larger than Symbiosis legends. And not just for the alphas.

[hhkbp2]

That's correct. 7bit's Round 6 legends are larger than Symbiosis legends. And not just for the alphas.

Does this mean that the font size of R6 keycaps(e.g. Modifiers keys) is different than any other keyset? If you mix a Dasher "Tab" keycap on other R6 modifiers keys, is there an issue with the font size difference?

[equalunique]

Really tempting. Kind of wish we had these designs available for PBT keys, but may go for this in the interim.

[hhkbp2]

But what is going on with the "up" pointing hand in the hands kit? Not a fan of it being a separate color.

The photos for Hands kit and Roman kit is updated. The previous photo is just a screenshot of KLE layout, where it used the pointing hand for "up". It should be fine now since it uses a vectorized icon.

Do you mean you prefer the white color for all keycaps in arrow cluster?

[hhkbp2]

If I were you I'd add them only for the basic modifiers. Too many of them it will drive the price through the roof.

Not sure how they would like it with only basic modifiers. Need more feedbacks for this issue before actually adding them. I guess we could delay adding them, and see whether more requests will come up.

[nuclear_wizard]

But what is going on with the "up" pointing hand in the hands kit? Not a fan of it being a separate color.

The photos for Hands kit and Roman kit is updated. The previous photo is just a screenshot of KLE layout, where it used the pointing hand for "up". It should be fine now since it uses a vectorized icon.

Do you mean you prefer the white color for all keycaps in arrow cluster?

Yes, it doesn't make sense to me why the up hand is yellow instead of white like the others

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[hhkbp2]

But what is going on with the "up" pointing hand in the hands kit? Not a fan of it being a separate color.

The photos for Hands kit and Roman kit is updated. The previous photo is just a screenshot of KLE layout, where it used the pointing hand for "up". It should be fine now since it uses a vectorized icon.

Do you mean you prefer the white color for all keycaps in arrow cluster?

Yes, it doesn't make sense to me why the up hand is yellow instead of white like the others

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Aha, Got it. It should be fine now. Please tell us if you have any further idea for them.

[hhkbp2]

I'm definitely interested in buying this -- especially that ErgoDox kit! I love that it has non-specific legends that are based on the theme of the set and not just blank keys.

Me too. I prefer to an Ergodox kit with legends, even though I do touch typing all the time. Those legends on this Ergodox kits are sforms and functions commonly used by Lisp Programmers, which make it one of my favorite kits in this IC.

[hhkbp2]

Still need help to identify those front printing symbols:

Need help to identify the space-cadet keyboard front-printed symbols

[Jae-3soteric]

That's correct. 7bit's Round 6 legends are larger than Symbiosis legends. And not just for the alphas.

Does this mean that the font size of R6 keycaps(e.g. Modifiers keys) is different than any other keyset? If you mix a Dasher "Tab" keycap on other R6 modifiers keys, is there an issue with the font size difference?

I've got both Symbiosis in Row 3 from the original GB and the space cadet set from R6 and the Hyper 7 set. The Symbiosis moulds for R3 do have smaller legends. These are smaller than standard SA legends as well. The R6 and Hyper 7 kits have larger legends - but even here the main letter is still smaller than a standard SA kit like dasher etc. This is due to the moulds being custom.

Additionally - the moulds for Symbiosis are only for Row 3 keys as far as I know, whereas 7bit has the ones for a sculpted set.

Finally, on H7 sets I've PM'd 7bit to ask if it will be in his R7 GB or if he could do another run, or if I could use his moulds to do so.

[hhkbp2]

That's correct. 7bit's Round 6 legends are larger than Symbiosis legends. And not just for the alphas.

Does this mean that the font size of R6 keycaps(e.g. Modifiers keys) is different than any other keyset? If you mix a Dasher "Tab" keycap on other R6 modifiers keys, is there an issue with the font size difference?

I've got both Symbiosis in Row 3 from the original GB and the space cadet set from R6 and the Hyper 7 set. The Symbiosis moulds for R3 do have smaller legends. These are smaller than standard SA legends as well. The R6 and Hyper 7 kits have larger legends - but even here the main letter is still smaller than a standard SA kit like dasher etc. This is due to the moulds being custom.

Additionally - the moulds for Symbiosis are only for Row 3 keys as far as I know, whereas 7bit has the ones for a sculpted set.

Finally, on H7 sets I've PM'd 7bit to ask if it will be in his R7 GB or if he could do another run, or if I could use his moulds to do so.

Thanks for the info. Yes, the Symbiosis R1 is flat in all R3 no doubt. It's the initial thought in my mind to create new molds for Symbiosis R2 alphas if it becomes sculpted. I guess I could try my luck to ask 7bit for permission. I don't have a R6 keyset. It's a mistake I didn't notice there is a font size difference. A friend did do a comparison about the font size of the function area in R6 and Dasher this afternoon, it showed that the font size of F1~F12 in R6 is noticeable bigger than those corresponding ones on Dasher. It concerns me if the superior R6 molds are used for the alphas kit for aesthetics reason, to make font size consistent, then other kits on function areas would need R6 molds.

For the Hyper7, good luck with that shortcut asking, and let us know how it goes. Hope it will work fine without the necessity to take any long road, e.g., blank 2u keycaps.