HHKBp2 vs Pok3r w/ MX White

[alexmegremis]

For the last decade I've been using an Apple Wireless keyboard. I've loved this thing. I've used it at home, in the office, and on client sites. Hell, I wrote my wedding vows with it connected to an iPad.
But I eventually managed to kill its left Shift, and that gave me the excuse to go nuts for a new keyboard.

I knew I wanted 60% form factor, maybe 65%. Sub-TKL for sure. I did not want a footprint significantly larger than the Apple Wireless I was retiring. I also did not want a DIY solution for my first mechanical kbd.

Tons of reading, tons of YT videos, and a number of samples later, I landed on two options.
- HHKBp2
- Vortex Pok3r w/ MX Whites and thick O rings

I ordered them both, intending to return the one I liked the least.

The HHKB arrived first.


It took some getting used to, to a large degree just because I was finally going to keys with proper travel.

I soon grew very fond of most of the layout. I live in bash and IntelliJ, so I haaated what was done to the tilde, and modifiers for arrows would clearly take a while to adjust to. I also really liked the feel and sound of the keys, although the lower rows seem lighter.
The switches are overall lighter than I would have liked. I often rest my fingers on the keys, and with this one I end up typing a row of A's or spaces.

They are also buttery smooth - a pleasure to type on.

I fully regretted going for the black on black.

A week later the Pok3r arrived.



This was a far more mixed bag.

I had gotten used to the HHKB layout, so I immediately started chasing that.

I hadn't noticed the Escape being merged with tilde. This had me fuming.
I started liking the programmability. I've now got 2 layers I live in.

The biggest fail BY FAR were the switches. They are all over the place. Some click loudly. Some click mildly. Some you can feel a bump, but no sound. The spring is twangy. And they are SO very scratchy, compared to both the sample I based my choice on, and of course the HHKB's Topre.

I've also used 2.5mm O rings on it (except for R1 which I've put 1.5mm behind the 2.5mm).

Occasionally the R Shift and Return keys bind.

My current choice is for the Pok3r. In addition to all the above observations,
- The HHKB offers no programmability, and a Hasu is a significant expense on top of the already high purchase price.
- I am looking forward to putting SA or MT3 profile keycaps on the Pok3r. By comparison there's almost nothing for Topre.

But I am making the choice very half heartedly. The MX Whites turned out so bad that I've emailed the store to see if there's a possibility of a warranty replacement.

I am reading up on lubing them, and I've gotten in on the recent Kaihl BOX Pale Blue massdrop. I would have preferred Jades, based on a sample pack I got, but the Pale Blues will do. And, hey, MX keycap compatibility.

EDIT:
I ended up keeping the HHKB instead.
The Pok3r is currently in the mail, being returned to mechanicalkeyboards.com for a full refund (nice dealings with they customer support) due to the inconsistency of the MX Whites. I made a video for them to illustrate the issue:

To be clear, the issue is also evident in another video I made testing out some naked switches.

[Pewpew]

Thanks for your reviewing! 

[the_marsbar]

I'd suggest returning both and getting a HHKB Type-S instead. I really like the sound and feel of the silenced HHKB. Also, if you need to silence an HHKB Pro 2, it's not straightforward (various different silencing rings to choose from, and the sliders in the Pro 2 are not designed with silencing in mind). Also, it seems like you would prefer a white keyboard (the Type-S is only available in white so far).

[DALExSNAIL]

I'd suggest returning both and getting a HHKB Type-S instead. I really like the sound and feel of the silenced HHKB. Also, if you need to silence an HHKB Pro 2, it's not straightforward (various different silencing rings to choose from, and the sliders in the Pro 2 are not designed with silencing in mind). Also, it seems like you would prefer a white keyboard (the Type-S is only available in white so far).

A type S is a pretty big commitment money wise, and he seems partial to programmability, and from what he said in the write up he wouldnt be too keen on dropping another bit of money on a hasu. If someone is deep into topre and already knows that they want to stick to an HHKB, then absolutely, a Type-S is a great choice, but in this case I would steer him away.

---------------------------------------------

@alexmegremis I personally find O-Rings and clicky switches together to be an odd choice, and could be contributing to the erratic nature of the click. Although I have heard a lot of mixed reviews on MX Whites, some with similar comments to yours. If you're after the clicky feel in MX, wait on your box switches and either swap them or have a user here swap them into the pok3r, as it is a great base for customization.

If you had other plans with those, maybe for a small custom or something, the I would personally return the board for non clicky switches. Most MX clicky stuff is lackluster imho (excluding the recent box switches).

[alexmegremis]

Everyone, thanks for your comments.

I've updated the review with the final outcome, ie that I kept the HHKB.
I was very conflicted about the choice, and I'm quite relieved I found a good reason to stick with it.
My only regret is getting black on black, I've got both USB ports now taken with lights so I can use the thing in the dark.

EDIT:
I'm going to see if I am allowed to post to the UK Facebook group for a straight up trade.

To address your comments:

A type S is a pretty big commitment money wise, and he seems partial to programmability, and from what he said in the write up he wouldnt be too keen on dropping another bit of money on a hasu. If someone is deep into topre and already knows that they want to stick to an HHKB, then absolutely, a Type-S is a great choice, but in this case I would steer him away.

I think I will eventually be doing a Hasu. As time passes, I'll build this board up. A GB spacebar here, some colour keycaps there, I'll make it more to my liking. I took a photo I made of it the other day into photoshop and did a mockup:

@alexmegremis I personally find O-Rings and clicky switches together to be an odd choice, and could be contributing to the erratic nature of the click. Although I have heard a lot of mixed reviews on MX Whites, some with similar comments to yours. If you're after the clicky feel in MX, wait on your box switches and either swap them or have a user here swap them into the pok3r, as it is a great base for customization.

If you had other plans with those, maybe for a small custom or something, the I would personally return the board for non clicky switches. Most MX clicky stuff is lackluster imho (excluding the recent box switches).

Good advice. I'm actually planning to completely BYO a board around the box switches. I expect I'll be repeating the HHKB layout on some winkeyless board, if I can source all the components.

I'd suggest returning both and getting a HHKB Type-S instead. I really like the sound and feel of the silenced HHKB. Also, if you need to silence an HHKB Pro 2, it's not straightforward (various different silencing rings to choose from, and the sliders in the Pro 2 are not designed with silencing in mind). Also, it seems like you would prefer a white keyboard (the Type-S is only available in white so far).

I'll reserve judgement until I play with a Type S IRL, but I actually like the sound of the normal one. It's even a conversation piece on work calls sometimes - loud enough to attract a question, not loud enough to obstruct the call. I do wish the switches were heavier. But, bottom line, all the waiting has meant that I'm now passed the return-by date from Amazon, so I'm keeping this.

[DALExSNAIL]

Nice.

MK.com is great with customer support in my experience, so I'm glad that turned out well.

Topre is a rabbit hole, so don't go too far haha.

2 Biggest improvements imo for an HHKB are HasuBT and lubing the spacebar stabs. I like the stock sounds (thought not as much as the dampened sounds) of the hhkb, but the spacebar click is almost unbearable. Lube them bad boys up if you're feeling froggy

[donut_sauce]

HHKB is a great board. I’d highly recommend the Hasu. You can get the non-BT one which is half the price, I prefer a wired keeb anyway.

 I didn’t really start loving my HHKB till I Hasu-ed/lubed/silenced it. Those mods imo really improve the HHKB experience. The Hasu on my HHKB was what started me into learning QMK.

[yearn]

I do wish that you had gotten a board with Ergo Clear switches instead as I feel that would have been a much more 1:1 duel off.

You can find affordable alternatives in stylizing your HHKB on kbdfans.cn or hidden-lab.com, there are more, just the 2 that popped up immediately in my mind.
There are also many various artisans making all sorts of crazy custom keycaps all the time so you will definitely enjoy it

[jcoffin1981]

EDIT:
I ended up keeping the HHKB instead.
The Pok3r is currently in the mail, being returned to mechanicalkeyboards.com for a full refund (nice dealings with they customer support) due to the inconsistency of the MX Whites. I made a video for them to illustrate the issue:

To be clear, the issue is also evident in another video I made testing out some naked switches.

Were you required to pay for return shipping or a restocking fee to Mechanical Keyboards?

[alexmegremis]

Were you required to pay for return shipping or a restocking fee to Mechanical Keyboards?

I'm in the UK. So I'm paying for international shipping. And I lose the customs tax I paid to import it. All because I was expecting MX Whites to be great, and Amazon doesn't offer the Pok3r with Whites.
However, I am not expecting to be charged a restocking fee. Emails exchanged mentioned full refund.

You can find affordable alternatives in stylizing your HHKB on kbdfans.cn or hidden-lab.com, there are more, just the 2 that popped up immediately in my mind.
There are also many various artisans making all sorts of crazy custom keycaps all the time so you will definitely enjoy it

Any more sites you could point me to for keycaps would be DEEPLY appreciated.

HHKB is a great board. I’d highly recommend the Hasu. You can get the non-BT one which is half the price, I prefer a wired keeb anyway.

I was quite interested in the HasuBT at some point. I've an Apple Wireless for the better part of a decade, after all. But the abysmal battery life has put me off it completely.
So I'm embracing the fun part of getting a custom USB cable done.

[jcoffin1981]

Were you required to pay for return shipping or a restocking fee to Mechanical Keyboards?

I'm in the UK. So I'm paying for international shipping. And I lose the customs tax I paid to import it. All because I was expecting MX Whites to be great, and Amazon doesn't offer the Pok3r with Whites.
However, I am not expecting to be charged a restocking fee. Emails exchanged mentioned full refund.

With Amazon, if you select "return" and you select the reason for the return being the product being defective, you can usually print a pre-paid mailing tag at Amazon's expense. 

This is one of the reasons why I love Amazon is when there is a problem their customer service is outstanding.  There was one time the courier went to the wrong door and listed the business as closed on my delivery update.  They actually called the courier on the phone and he came back ten minutes later and gave me my package. Also anytime I've ever had a problem that required a phone call, they will often give me a credit of 10 dollars or so that I can use on my next purchase just for the hassle.  I don't know if they do this for everyone or just because of the probably 500 things I have purchased from them.  If something is just a little more expensive I will still get it on Amazon just because I know of these things.

[alexmegremis]

With Amazon, if you select "return" and you select the reason for the return being the product being defective, you can usually print a pre-paid mailing tag at Amazon's expense. 

You're correct. That's usually the case. Not for Amazon Marketplace sellers, it seems. The refund needs to be agreed upon by the vendor, and shipping is on you, at least in my case where I'm shipping back to Japan from the UK. When I printed the label, it actually said it could be printed up until 11 (I think) June, I think. I kind of took that as the return-by date.

In the end, I actually don't have any other keyboard to work with. I binned my damaged Apple Wireless, obviously too hastily. If I ship this back while I wait for a replacement, I'd be screwed. It would have to be some monumental turn of luck for the vendor to agree to wait while a white replacement arrives.

I did mess up in one detail. PFU actually started a UK-based Amazon presence ("PFU EMEA", based in the UK). This would have been a lot easier to deal with the black HHKB's order (and yes they only sell the black one currently).

Anyway, I'm not not unhappy. Overall I'm enjoying the HHKB a lot.