Author Topic: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)  (Read 137570 times)

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Offline prognostics

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #350 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 10:47:26 »
I've never bought anything from Cannon Keys. Can anyone explain what's the issue with them?

A significant amount of discord drama due to their checkout system which is similar to sneaker drops, a combination of FCFS and raffle.
On a very surface level, the complaints were because of errors in the checkout system delaying the drop then giving people NULL when checking out and for not region locking the drop.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #351 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 11:02:44 »
Mechsondeck made a good stream about it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/792326916

Thanks! I also forgot to ask: will this buy be unlimited? I plan to buy well into December.

A significant amount of discord drama due to their checkout system which is similar to sneaker drops, a combination of FCFS and raffle.
On a very surface level, the complaints were because of errors in the checkout system delaying the drop then giving people NULL when checking out and for not region locking the drop.

I don't much into the sneakers scene, but I assume it has a bad name because of flipping? And regarding the null/delays, I really hope doesn't happen again.

Offline underling

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #352 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 17:45:07 »
I'm pretty much still a newb to this hobby. but I was all excited reading the OP until I reached "cannon keys" part.

So getting one will be similar to the satisfaction75 group buy format?


Most probably yes.

Was planning on picking this up but am hesitant because it's on CK. Beautiful board but I will be passing.

As much as I respect your vote-with-your-wallet decision as a consumer, I will take some time to say this type of comment leaves a weird bitter taste in my mouth.

...[snip]...

So getting back to your comment, and apologizing for venting on you, I want to say this is not personal as I don't even know you. But if you think this keyboard is worth your money, buy it. If it's not your thing, don't. Either way stop the attitude. It does not help anyone, it is not making more keyboards, and it only empowers truly bad people like the wannabe-my-brother-inlaw in the image to harass and disorient designers. If anything it is riving away good designers that could be designing more awesome stuff, and yet they see all the crap and think twice. It also stops our designers from interacting with the community. Some people complain that the designers don't linger around social media much. Why would they?

emphasis mine .. what attitude?

To associate the previous comments about CK's issues and jump to connecting them with incendiary, racist messages received from completely unrelated users, as if to impute the two are related is a deplorable tactic.

anyways, thanks for making my decision easy.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #353 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 18:15:37 »
what attitude?

To associate the previous comments about CK's issues and jump to connecting them with incendiary, racist messages received from completely unrelated users, as if to impute the two are related is a deplorable tactic.


I know that the relation between toxicity (ill criticism) and racism seems extreme. What I wanted to mean is: the fact that you are overplaying CK's fault in this whole issue at the same time as no one does near the same level of criticism and toxicity for designers that literally hurt other people by means of stealing and deceiving means you enable legitimately ill-intended trolls to harass and make a toxic environment to designers and the overall community. I am a prime example of how this mechanic works through people feeling validated to send me those kinds of messages. CK also got death threats. All in all that is what makes designers and vendors stay in their ivory tower and not interact with the community.

what attitude?

anyways, thanks for making my decision easy.

The attitude you are having right now. Playing this like a project has an inherent vice in origin due to CK's participation means you are stablishing a moral judgement to an error that was not at all imoral. As I tried to explain, it is my opinion that CK was put in a lose-lose situation due to their mistakes and they had to make a call. You cannot say that they have bad intentions because the mistakes were made with good intention (making a more efficient and convenient checkout system). If your "easy decision" means not buying this board because of CK then I am sorry you feel like this but also grateful for not having you buy this board.
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 November 2020, 18:30:42 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline datfroyodoe

  • Posts: 58
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #354 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 18:24:09 »
I've never bought anything from Cannon Keys. Can anyone explain what's the issue with them?

A significant amount of discord drama due to their checkout system which is similar to sneaker drops, a combination of FCFS and raffle.
On a very surface level, the complaints were because of errors in the checkout system delaying the drop then giving people NULL when checking out and for not region locking the drop.
curious question: why would they need to region lock?

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #355 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 18:36:06 »
I've never bought anything from Cannon Keys. Can anyone explain what's the issue with them?

A significant amount of discord drama due to their checkout system which is similar to sneaker drops, a combination of FCFS and raffle.
On a very surface level, the complaints were because of errors in the checkout system delaying the drop then giving people NULL when checking out and for not region locking the drop.
curious question: why would they need to region lock?

Beats me -- have to ask them
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #356 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 18:57:42 »
I mean there's no reason to region lock at all. The only designers/vendors who even do so are those who run boards in asian countries using system alike QQ for communication. Even then you can join those with a proxy. I'm not sure why region locking is even being discussed at this point. If someone buys a product and is willing to pay shipping and tax/tariff to wherever they are. So be it.

I think the one exception is when every region has a vendor to supply them, and a proportional supply. Which is kind of tough to determine.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 November 2020, 06:09:40 by Zeelobby »

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #357 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 19:05:44 »
I've never bought anything from Cannon Keys. Can anyone explain what's the issue with them?
CK developed a new system, using sneaker like sales queue, in order to combat the two problems vendor sales have right now, bots beating people at FCFS, and multiple entries in raffle. The system is brand new, and written by store owner who vendors part time (as almost all keyboard vendors do). Because of the volume of sales for Sat75, probably the most popular board of the year, the queue software experienced some issues. One due to a new feature, being able to add extras (something the community really likes), and a null error that was an unforseen interaction between between the software and the point of sales that CK uses. Because of this it was delayed, and some people missed out due to rng (which was going to happen anyway).

Anyway, it wasn't a smooth experience, and while many offered suggestions in a calm manor, many were salty AF and threatening the discord team and owners. Because of this there were many bans etc.

That said, the bugs have been resolved, and CK will continue using the queue system because it removes 2 major problems from the community, and gets boards into actual users hands. If flack is caught for it, so be it, but plenty of happy people get boards. Wish the threats weren't a part of the community, but some people just feel entitled to be tools because of anonimity.

Anyway. This isnt relevant to Sagittarius or anything else. Gondos a great pcb designer, and it's going to be an awesome board. Hopefully as many people as possible get to enjoy it.
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 November 2020, 19:40:53 by Zeelobby »

Offline tngpq

  • Posts: 143
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #358 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 22:53:32 »
I've never bought anything from Cannon Keys. Can anyone explain what's the issue with them?

A significant amount of discord drama due to their checkout system which is similar to sneaker drops, a combination of FCFS and raffle.
On a very surface level, the complaints were because of errors in the checkout system delaying the drop then giving people NULL when checking out and for not region locking the drop.
curious question: why would they need to region lock?

Beats me -- have to ask them

It's because ilumkb who was the Asian proxy for Sat75 drop region locked NA out of the drop for the first 12 hours. ilumkb listened to the non-NA customers and offered that. Of course, it sold out in 5 minutes. But ilumkb also had people complaining about the hiccups in the drop for the Sat75 link not showing up on the GB page but had to be searched.

Offline Zeelobby

  • Posts: 926
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #359 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 23:50:30 »
I've never bought anything from Cannon Keys. Can anyone explain what's the issue with them?

A significant amount of discord drama due to their checkout system which is similar to sneaker drops, a combination of FCFS and raffle.
On a very surface level, the complaints were because of errors in the checkout system delaying the drop then giving people NULL when checking out and for not region locking the drop.
curious question: why would they need to region lock?

Beats me -- have to ask them

It's because ilumkb who was the Asian proxy for Sat75 drop region locked NA out of the drop for the first 12 hours. ilumkb listened to the non-NA customers and offered that. Of course, it sold out in 5 minutes. But ilumkb also had people complaining about the hiccups in the drop for the Sat75 link not showing up on the GB page but had to be searched.
Yup. Turns out we're all just human. Luis a good dude.

Offline ellw

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #360 on: Sat, 07 November 2020, 00:41:05 »
Hi Gondolindrim,

I'm a longtime lurker on GH - visit once in a while to keep track on upcoming group buys, but I've never really bothered to register and post comments and all.

Until now.

I just wanted to say, I'm really really looking forward to this board. My ideal layout is ergo with arrows, which is why Alice and its multitude of clones doesn't really work for me. I'm so pleased to have finally found this board and I am hopeful of successfully being able to order one at group buy!!

I hope the trolls and other naysayers don't affect you too much or get under your skin. The anonymity of the Internet seems to empower people to a level of toxicity far beyond what they would otherwise be at, and I generally ignore them though that might not work for you. Anyway I hope my comments are helpful and keep up the good work!

Offline R3BORN

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #361 on: Sat, 07 November 2020, 00:51:21 »
I've been lurking this board for a long time because of its innovative take on a layout but the toxicity around it and now CK is crazy. I'm fairly new to the hobby, a little over a year, but screw the people going batch **** crazy in these forums and discord. Honestly, the easier it'll be for the rest of us to possibly support the design and get one. 

Offline underling

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #362 on: Sat, 07 November 2020, 00:54:06 »
what attitude?

To associate the previous comments about CK's issues and jump to connecting them with incendiary, racist messages received from completely unrelated users, as if to impute the two are related is a deplorable tactic.


I know that the relation between toxicity (ill criticism) and racism seems extreme. What I wanted to mean is: the fact that you are overplaying CK's fault in this whole issue at the same time as no one does near the same level of criticism and toxicity for designers that literally hurt other people by means of stealing and deceiving means you enable legitimately ill-intended trolls to harass and make a toxic environment to designers and the overall community.

It doesn't seem extreme - it is extreme. Your response was not only outsized relative to any sort of offence, but quite transparently you used it only to grind an axe along with a plaintive, emotional tactic to gaslight anyone who may not like the CK buy system - or any of the other topics you choose to wax on.

But why stop there? Why don't you double down and go ahead and now connect these innocuous comments about how GB at cannon keys may create reluctance for some with freaking DEATH THREATS.

 
Quote
I am a prime example of how this mechanic works through people feeling validated to send me those kinds of messages. CK also got death threats. All in all that is what makes designers and vendors stay in their ivory tower and not interact with the community.

Oh, check. we got that now too.

Quote
what attitude?

anyways, thanks for making my decision easy.

The attitude you are having right now. Playing this like a project has an inherent vice in origin due to CK's participation means you are stablishing a moral judgement to an error that was not at all imoral. As I tried to explain, it is my opinion that CK was put in a lose-lose situation due to their mistakes and they had to make a call. You cannot say that they have bad intentions because the mistakes were made with good intention (making a more efficient and convenient checkout system).

Only in my original message did I ask if the buying experience would be similar to the satisfaction, since it's being run by CK. You could simply have answered "yes" and I never would have responded again. It's your business who/where you run a GB through. I am relatively new to the hobby, as I self-reported in my question.

My second post and loss of interest has nothing to do with CK. It is your attitude that makes the decision easy.

Going off on your personal rant and associating the two classes of behaviors: (1) respectful, relevant questions or comments about the group buy format and (2) racist/misogynist/abusive direct messages.

"How dare they question ...."

Seems like this response to questions/comments in an IC thread is high-grade arrogance, petulant elitism.

So, to be more clear the reason is not CK, or their checkout system. My reason is you. You are the reason I will not buy, or try to buy, this keyboard.

Quote
If your "easy decision" means not buying this board because of CK then I am sorry you feel like this but also grateful for not having you buy this board.

I can assure you that, in at least equal measure, it's my relief to have avoided it as well.


Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #363 on: Sat, 07 November 2020, 12:26:15 »
what attitude?

To associate the previous comments about CK's issues and jump to connecting them with incendiary, racist messages received from completely unrelated users, as if to impute the two are related is a deplorable tactic.


I know that the relation between toxicity (ill criticism) and racism seems extreme. What I wanted to mean is: the fact that you are overplaying CK's fault in this whole issue at the same time as no one does near the same level of criticism and toxicity for designers that literally hurt other people by means of stealing and deceiving means you enable legitimately ill-intended trolls to harass and make a toxic environment to designers and the overall community.

It doesn't seem extreme - it is extreme. Your response was not only outsized relative to any sort of offence, but quite transparently you used it only to grind an axe along with a plaintive, emotional tactic to gaslight anyone who may not like the CK buy system - or any of the other topics you choose to wax on.

But why stop there? Why don't you double down and go ahead and now connect these innocuous comments about how GB at cannon keys may create reluctance for some with freaking DEATH THREATS.

 
Quote
I am a prime example of how this mechanic works through people feeling validated to send me those kinds of messages. CK also got death threats. All in all that is what makes designers and vendors stay in their ivory tower and not interact with the community.

Oh, check. we got that now too.

Quote
what attitude?

anyways, thanks for making my decision easy.

The attitude you are having right now. Playing this like a project has an inherent vice in origin due to CK's participation means you are stablishing a moral judgement to an error that was not at all imoral. As I tried to explain, it is my opinion that CK was put in a lose-lose situation due to their mistakes and they had to make a call. You cannot say that they have bad intentions because the mistakes were made with good intention (making a more efficient and convenient checkout system).

Only in my original message did I ask if the buying experience would be similar to the satisfaction, since it's being run by CK. You could simply have answered "yes" and I never would have responded again. It's your business who/where you run a GB through. I am relatively new to the hobby, as I self-reported in my question.

My second post and loss of interest has nothing to do with CK. It is your attitude that makes the decision easy.

Going off on your personal rant and associating the two classes of behaviors: (1) respectful, relevant questions or comments about the group buy format and (2) racist/misogynist/abusive direct messages.

"How dare they question ...."

Seems like this response to questions/comments in an IC thread is high-grade arrogance, petulant elitism.

So, to be more clear the reason is not CK, or their checkout system. My reason is you. You are the reason I will not buy, or try to buy, this keyboard.

Quote
If your "easy decision" means not buying this board because of CK then I am sorry you feel like this but also grateful for not having you buy this board.

I can assure you that, in at least equal measure, it's my relief to have avoided it as well.

Not only you didn't understand a single argument I made, you also distorted the whole discussion towads "LEL YOU ARE AN ELITIST".

This that you are doing is not "respectful, relevant questions or comments about the group buy format". Did you read the response? The whole point was, this type of comment is not respectful, nor relevant, misdirected towards the wrong issue, serves only your distorted sense of ego, and it enables racism and toxicity. Not only that, I blatantly stated my response was not personified towards a particular person, but towards this general sentiment that drips from your mouth as you spew this load of poopoo. Learn to read.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 November 2020, 12:58:35 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Wamuu

  • Posts: 25
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #364 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 01:15:39 »
Hey so on your gb post you said that one of the colors is red/black. I saw minterly's stream where she build a red prototype but there was no black anywhere on the board. Can you describe what the red/black colorway is supposed to be like please? I recognize I'm being impatient but if you don't feel like answering its all good haha.
Also silly question, I can still use any keycap profile with this board yes? Like I'm not restricted to just cherry profile right?
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2020, 01:45:23 by Wamuu »

Offline FlitzDeelman

  • Posts: 180
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #365 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 03:43:04 »
Gondo, could you please at some point update the original post with pics / renders of the new design? I’d like to have a central, quickly accessible place to admire the curves and ponder what other boards I should abandon for this.

Offline FlitzDeelman

  • Posts: 180
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #366 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 03:56:03 »
The screw holes on the bottom front looked quite close to the edge - what does everyone else think? Are the tolerances still fine for machining? Am I misremembering?

You and Upas knows more about this than I do, I’m just asking.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #367 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 11:31:48 »
Hey so on your gb post you said that one of the colors is red/black. I saw minterly's stream where she build a red prototype but there was no black anywhere on the board. Can you describe what the red/black colorway is supposed to be like please? I recognize I'm being impatient but if you don't feel like answering its all good haha.
Also silly question, I can still use any keycap profile with this board yes? Like I'm not restricted to just cherry profile right?

Hey!

I think that the red/black will be the same as the Chimera65:


I know this doesn't look like the one on minterly's stream, but she said herself that somehow the stream or her camera made the color look more towards orande than it is in real life. I will consult Upas on that one. Let me get back on that

EDIT: Upas confirmed the red and gray colors will not be the same as the Chimera. We will need to wait on the prototype pictures to get a good look at those colors.

EDIT2: again about the colors. The gray and lilac will be similar to the Chimera versions, but the gray will be slighly lighter:


The red shade will be darker than the prototype one Miterly built, but lighter than the Chimera red I liked before.
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2020, 20:35:18 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #368 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 11:35:24 »
The screw holes on the bottom front looked quite close to the edge - what does everyone else think? Are the tolerances still fine for machining? Am I misremembering?

You and Upas knows more about this than I do, I’m just asking.

To be fair I didn't notice that, but since the protos are made I think the tolerances are fine? Also the curved profile makes it a little bit different I guess
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #369 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 11:39:08 »
Gondo, could you please at some point update the original post with pics / renders of the new design? I’d like to have a central, quickly accessible place to admire the curves and ponder what other boards I should abandon for this.

Did it! We unfortunately don't have many pictures, as we are waiting for Minterly to take some eye candy ones. I will update the thread ASAP once we have those!
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2020, 11:44:57 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline FlitzDeelman

  • Posts: 180
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #370 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 12:47:49 »
The screw holes on the bottom front looked quite close to the edge - what does everyone else think? Are the tolerances still fine for machining? Am I misremembering?

You and Upas knows more about this than I do, I’m just asking.

To be fair I didn't notice that, but since the protos are made I think the tolerances are fine? Also the curved profile makes it a little bit different I guess

Good point, the prototype seems fine. :-) Upas does know more than me, it's not a showstopper.

Offline FlitzDeelman

  • Posts: 180
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #371 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 12:48:36 »
Gondo, could you please at some point update the original post with pics / renders of the new design? I’d like to have a central, quickly accessible place to admire the curves and ponder what other boards I should abandon for this.

Did it! We unfortunately don't have many pictures, as we are waiting for Minterly to take some eye candy ones. I will update the thread ASAP once we have those!

Awesome, thanks!

Offline Alejo1707

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #372 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 14:34:38 »
Ohhh nice! Expecting those prices to see if it fits my budget

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Offline peachie

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #373 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 18:32:15 »
I'm sorry to ask something that I'm positive has been answered many many times, but a few quick skims of the thread yielded no answers for me and I'm feeling sick, gross, and positively exhaustive after this weeks round of oncology/cancer treatment. sincerely sorry.

is there a limit on how many Saggittarius will be produced-- and if so, how many??

I've been stalking this project for a while and am completely enamored with the board, so when I came to check today I was somewhat heartbroken to notice you're selling with Cannonkeys. [to clarify, I have no gripes with them as people or a company as a whole], but after the Dissatisfaction75 fiasco last week (in which, despite obsessive compulsive diligence, I never even made it into the back of the QUEUE LMAO) I feel deeply saddened that I probably won't have a chance at getting this awesome keeb, either...

keyboards are one of the few sedentary activities I have left bringing me joy through an extremely tough crisis in my life, is all, so I apologize if I sound a tad dramatic hahah, I just don't want to lose this hobby too to scalpers/bots who jack up prices on mechmarket that I can already barely afford, from a lottery system that never goes my way ; U ;
 
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Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #374 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 19:02:55 »
is there a limit on how many Saggittarius will be produced-- and if so, how many??

Same. I plan to buy this late, hence my concern.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #375 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 19:28:08 »
is there a limit on how many Saggittarius will be produced-- and if so, how many??

Same. I plan to buy this late, hence my concern.

I'm sorry to ask something that I'm positive has been answered many many times, but a few quick skims of the thread yielded no answers for me and I'm feeling sick, gross, and positively exhaustive after this weeks round of oncology/cancer treatment. sincerely sorry.

is there a limit on how many Saggittarius will be produced-- and if so, how many??

I've been stalking this project for a while and am completely enamored with the board, so when I came to check today I was somewhat heartbroken to notice you're selling with Cannonkeys. [to clarify, I have no gripes with them as people or a company as a whole], but after the Dissatisfaction75 fiasco last week (in which, despite obsessive compulsive diligence, I never even made it into the back of the QUEUE LMAO) I feel deeply saddened that I probably won't have a chance at getting this awesome keeb, either...

keyboards are one of the few sedentary activities I have left bringing me joy through an extremely tough crisis in my life, is all, so I apologize if I sound a tad dramatic hahah, I just don't want to lose this hobby too to scalpers/bots who jack up prices on mechmarket that I can already barely afford, from a lottery system that never goes my way ; U ;

Well first of all I wish you a swift and good recovery dude. F cancer.

Upas did confirm to be it is going to be limited numbers, but he didn't confirm how many nor the price -- we are still working with the factory on the quotes so neither of both are available yet.

We are working with proxies to deliver it worldwide.
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline ellw

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #376 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 21:11:22 »

We are working with proxies to deliver it worldwide.

Would be awesome if the Asia proxy could be ilumkb - they've worked with CK on a number of releases already so Upas would be very comfortable working with them, and best of all they're local to me:)

Offline dmatx1

  • Posts: 145
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #377 on: Mon, 09 November 2020, 00:14:27 »
We are working with proxies to deliver it worldwide.

What great news :thumb:

Offline Mistah

  • Posts: 65
Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #378 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 15:50:37 »
I'm optimistic about being able to secure my order . I think the Satisfaction really drew a lot of attention from a lot of people and has been on soooo many keycap renders. Not only is the Sagittarius a more niche layout, but I don't think it's been as widely broadcasted, and hasn't been recommended by everyone yet (because the general public hasn't used it). I think people don't realize how much this hobby has exploded with new members (including me) in the past 1-2 years.

This case was designed by Upas and intended to sell on CK from the start. Are they supposed to disband the company because of a stressful group buy? Not sure what some people are asking for.

It's super normal to be frustrated, but it's important to stay respectful. Not only is this a project Gondo has worked super hard on, his late friend Tom poured his heart into it. It's tough taking criticism like that when something is super close to heart and the issues aren't really under his control, especially when it's coming at the same time as more malicious stuff.

That said, I personally can't wait! I love how this board tuned out. I'm really excited to see where this takes the ergo community. To my knowledge, this is the largest push towards ergo that premium boards have had since the Alice. Congrats Gondo, I'm super excited :).
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 November 2020, 15:54:16 by Mistah »

Offline LONGZILLA

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (GB dates announced!)
« Reply #379 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 16:30:15 »
Just wanted to say that the time and effort on this project is appreciated.  The elevated emotions in this discussion, should be a reflection of how excited & passionate folks are about this board, keep up the amazing work.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and prices announced)
« Reply #380 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 23:37:23 »
Ok people, GB extras, proxies and dates announced. The US prices are also announced, and we are waiting on our proxy partners to give us their pricing. I'll post these as soon as I get them!

Let's goooooooo
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline vaf1en

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and prices announced)
« Reply #381 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 01:24:39 »
Ok people, GB extras, proxies and dates announced. The US prices are also announced, and we are waiting on our proxy partners to give us their pricing. I'll post these as soon as I get them!

Let's goooooooo
Very excited that we are so close to GB. :)

I appreciate Jay (Prototypist) being a big part of the mechanical keyboard scene, but I cannot help feeling a little bothered seeing Prototypist continuously listed as an EU vendor.

The UK voted and as a result brexit happened. A no-deal brexit mind you, meaning those of us actually in the EU (as opposed to the UK that broke out) will have to pay EU taxes when making the purchase in 2020 and then be slapped with import fees on top of taxes all over again when 2021 rolls around with brexit in effect and the keyboard shipping.

Can you or Jay speak to this situation?
Does Jay see himself as a UK or an EU vendor? In the latter case I would assume there has been thoughts on how to avoid mainland EU customers being double taxed (in lag of a better word).

Maybe consider adding an additional EU vendor for future Sag products?

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and prices announced)
« Reply #382 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 02:09:16 »
Ok people, GB extras, proxies and dates announced. The US prices are also announced, and we are waiting on our proxy partners to give us their pricing. I'll post these as soon as I get them!

Let's goooooooo
Very excited that we are so close to GB. :)

I appreciate Jay (Prototypist) being a big part of the mechanical keyboard scene, but I cannot help feeling a little bothered seeing Prototypist continuously listed as an EU vendor.

The UK voted and as a result brexit happened. A no-deal brexit mind you, meaning those of us actually in the EU (as opposed to the UK that broke out) will have to pay EU taxes when making the purchase in 2020 and then be slapped with import fees on top of taxes all over again when 2021 rolls around with brexit in effect and the keyboard shipping.

Can you or Jay speak to this situation?
Does Jay see himself as a UK or an EU vendor? In the latter case I would assume there has been thoughts on how to avoid mainland EU customers being double taxed (in lag of a better word).

Maybe consider adding an additional EU vendor for future Sag products?

Please forgive my ignorance but I'm completely oblivious to that situation and honestly I don't know what to say -- I'll convey your question to him
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Jo_hannes

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #383 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 03:13:31 »
With respect to the Prototypist situation I was about to ask the exact same thing. Mind you, vaf1en, there is still a chance for a trade deal to be struck, and the incoming Biden presidency has made that slightly more likely. However, the window is quickly closing and considering the ticket Boris ran on, remaining in the common market may be unlikely in any case, so that private customers are getting hit with import VAT in any case (trade deals often only affect businesses - there is an EU deal with Canada, for example, but it has zero impact on me directly buying stuff from there). So, the probability of EU27 customers paying 20% UK VAT now and, in my instance, paying a whopping 25% on top of that next year (Swedish VAT) is high - taking the US pricing, this would turn out to be a 728 USD board for me as a result (of course, just with Swedish VAT it would anyhow be a 606 USD board - which I would be fine with - taxes keep society running after all). If Jae can set up a (true) EU dependency somehow, that would be terrific, but otherwise, UK vendors are very likely the same to an EU buyer as Ilum, Cannonkeys or any other from 1/1/2021. In that case, I'm just not willing to risk it in the old year. Thanks for taking a closer look at this with Jae, Gondo.
Best
Johannes
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 November 2020, 03:22:30 by Jo_hannes »

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #384 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 04:21:42 »
Ok guys so the distinction between "EU" and "Europe" went right past me once I was oblivious to the situation, and I'm sorry for that.

Here is Jae's response to the matter:


In this instance EU was meant to represent Europe the continent rather than European Union - a small but very important distinction.

Any sale made in 2020 but shipped in 2021 will have VAT collected at the time of sale (and paid to the respective governments as per VAT rules/procedures that currently exist), and will have the VAT invoice in the box clearly showing the sale date, and be also marked as VAT Paid at the time of shipping on the shipping slip.

As such, even if no trade deal is agreed (which is still to be determined) VAT should not be charged again. On the off chance it is, you will be able to reclaim that with the original purchase order as proof following the rules and process in your country.

Of course for non-European Union countries (whether in Europe the continent or worldwide), sales will still be the same as they are on the store today - with no VAT included.

Sales in 2021 depend on what trade deal (or not) is agreed, and could range from VAT being collected as it always has been, or EU customers no longer paying VAT on UK stores, and potentially paying it on import. There is a wide range of outcomes here that its hard to speculate on.

The same also applies in reverse to UK customers where sales are with EU vendors, which is worth keeping in mind.
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Jo_hannes

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #385 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 04:24:15 »
Terrific, thanks for the clarification. That certainly helps! /Johannes

Offline vaf1en

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #386 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 04:35:03 »
Thank you for addressing this so quickly, Gondo and Jae. Mad probs!
I now have no qualms purchasing through Prototypist in this transitional period. :)

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #387 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 07:43:51 »
Hey Gondo, you may want to update the OP with photos of the new case design, just so it's easier for people to find, and so that it's more conspicuous what the final board will look like :)

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #388 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 18:39:38 »
Here's hoping he doesn't

Offline FlitzDeelman

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #389 on: Fri, 13 November 2020, 07:02:38 »
I see the updated pics in section 11 of the OP shows half a Taeha. Is he (partly) included with the kit?

Offline i luv chuletas

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #390 on: Fri, 13 November 2020, 09:51:35 »
Bit sad about the lower quantity, really wanted to get in on this :(

Good luck to everyone going for one with the ck checkout!

Offline arq1999

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #391 on: Fri, 13 November 2020, 11:23:32 »
im really looking forward to the GB. I'm bit sad about the colors, I was really hoping for top and bottom red or top red with e-white bottom. But Anyways Great work Gondo and Upas!

Offline musdem

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #392 on: Sat, 14 November 2020, 15:36:43 »
I assume Canadians have to use CannonKeys to buy?

Offline gnho

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #393 on: Sat, 14 November 2020, 22:39:08 »
Congratulations!

Very glad to see the GB is announced but feeling quite dismayed by the quantity. I am sure that there are sensible commercial concerns and I respect the vendor's judgements on this.

Knowing that I probably won't be able to get one because of the low supply, I hope the board will run regularly so I don't have to pay flippers for it.

Thank you for this great work!

Offline SirKhamenman

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #394 on: Sun, 15 November 2020, 04:20:37 »
A new member here in GH. I have been eying for an ergo mech and would really, really love this Sagittarius. Before moving to mech, I used Microsoft ergo keeb as my daily, so I am really digging this Sagittarius since I dont see ergo keebs that often. I checked on Prototypist.net since I am in Europe, but could not see this Sagittarius anymore. Is it really impossible for me to get one? TIA.

Offline fitz

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #395 on: Sun, 15 November 2020, 05:47:55 »
The more I browse gh the more keyboard I see in my future.

Offline orpheo

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #396 on: Sun, 15 November 2020, 06:55:39 »
The original design was way more appealing, as it kinda looks like the Alice. This new one is really not my cup of tea. Too round, and too ergo looking. It misses the sharp look of the Alice. GLWGB though!

Offline ellw

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #397 on: Sun, 15 November 2020, 07:20:19 »
Congratulations!

Very glad to see the GB is announced but feeling quite dismayed by the quantity. I am sure that there are sensible commercial concerns and I respect the vendor's judgements on this.

Knowing that I probably won't be able to get one because of the low supply, I hope the board will run regularly so I don't have to pay flippers for it.

Thank you for this great work!

I think if they could, all keyboard makers would want their products to have unlimited quantity so everyone who wanted one could get one, unfortunately the reality for many of them is that they are small part time operations. Imagine having to run a store, deal with customer service, do QC, on hundreds of keyboards all in your spare time! So they only make as many as they feel they can handle.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #398 on: Sun, 15 November 2020, 08:08:57 »
Hey Gondo, you may want to update the OP with photos of the new case design, just so it's easier for people to find, and so that it's more conspicuous what the final board will look like :)

I'm still waiting on those nice pictures unfortunately! But I will update the OP as soon as they arrive
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)
« Reply #399 on: Sun, 15 November 2020, 08:09:58 »
I assume Canadians have to use CannonKeys to buy?

Indeed man, I know it's not ideal but it's what we could make work
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.