42 Keys Ergodox Layout

[Zutatensuppe]

Hi people,

it has been a while since I got my ergodox and I'm almost totally happy with it.
One thing I observed after tuning key layout though is that I don't use 34 (almost half!!!) of the keys.
So I thought I'd share the layout that I'm currently using (I removed the ergodox keys that I don't use and adjusted size of keys in the screenshot/link):



http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/95c43498ea1d1ab9c0d055f8b7b57a7c

First of all, the layout is based on workman layout and uses 3 layers basically (in code it is more, because of split layers between hands). I am a programmer so I don't only need letters, but all kind of braces and special chars as well. Because I didn't want to reach up to the numbers row, I set up a second layer for them. Then in the next step I thought I might as well make a layer for numbers and F keys too, so here we are now

1st row on the keys is Layer 1 (mostly letters, active by default)
2nd row is Layer 2 (mostly special chars needed for programming, active for left hand when holding n, active for right hand when holding t)
3rd row is Layer 3 (numbers/F-keys, active for left hand when holding i, active for right hand when holding a)

Shift is active when holding h or e
Alt is active when holding s or o

Sometimes I also need to write Umlauts (ä ö ü ß). I have no layer for them, but can easily write them with alt-codes (holding A and S and enter the numbers). If those letters are written often, another layer would be no problem I think (for example on holding U or R).
Often I need to use hotkeys in the IDE (Alt+Shift+Key, Alt+Ctrl+Key, Alt+Shift+Ctrl+Key), which are all easily accessible in the layout (maybe not visible on first sight, but once you get used to it it really is very convenient). There is almost no hand movement needed anymore.
One example that comes to my mind right now is Alt-Tab to go from IDE to browser and then F5. As you can see by the layout, there is no hand movement needed at all.
The most convenient for me when I started using this were the arrow keys, 'Home' and 'End' on L2.
But there are a lot more such convenient positionings to be found in your daily work.

The keys colored in red I use rarely, but still kind of want to keep (Esc/Del/Lgui for being able to activate them with one hand/finger, the +$ just for esthetics).
Yellow keys are thumb keys.
Blue is deep fish key.

I also want to build it as a real keyboard when I got spare time and patience.

The layout would make it possible to have a much smaller ergodox!!

compare with full ergodox: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/cfd9124a9b86e0d36858211e864f855b
compare with Atreus: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ef981a4824102d659d787ef279f935f1

The Atreus has only 42keys as well but it is not seperate for each hand. This makes it possible for it to be even smaller. But I definately want to keep the two hands separated, because I adjust the hand position from time to time (mostly when I change sitting position).
And also I want 4 thumb keys and the positioning of them seems a bit odd on the Atreus, though I did not have a chance to try it out yet so I might be wrong.

Anyway, for now I just wanted to share the layout, maybe someone finds it useful ^^

Oh, and of course, the firmware that makes it all possible is tmk.

[decker]

Interesting idea to use main layer keys as layer modifiers for the opposite hand...
Would need getting used too, but if this is your main keyboard why not.

[tp4tissue]

What is the advantage to these layers ?

[Zutatensuppe]

@tp4tissue

the advantage is huge reduction of unnatural/unnecessary hand movement overall. especially for shortcuts, numbers, special chars
mostly think of any shift/alt/ctrl combinations, you always have to move your hand on a normal layout.
that is because usually these keys are somewhere at the bottom row or side row, similar to CTRL/SHIFT on a normal keyboard. but in order to reach them, you have to move your pinky (worst case for me) or other fingers far outside/to bottom or even move the whole hand in a sideway direction. not sure how to explain it better  having the layer keys on the home row reduces that problem.
now i only have 2 keys that i have to reach out with pinky ($/ and \ ) and they are reached horizontally, which I find easy to reach without stretching. And because the yellow keys are all thumb keys that can be reached by moving the thumbs arround (again, no hand movement required) there is no struggle to reach any keys.

Concerning the layers L2 and L3: They again mean less hand/finger movement.
F keys, numbers and symbols are usually far away and require hand movement or finger stretch/strong bend. And if I would put the layer keys in a bottom row or side row, I would have to bend/stretch or move hand again. So I put everything in the home row.
A little bonus: The numpad like layout of F keys and number keys makes it very easy to know/remember where each key is. I always found it hard to input numbers without looking on keyboard when i use the numbers row.

Some examples:
- hold N and tap one of T to move cursor to the right INSTEAD of moving my hands to right cursor key somewhere else (and also move them back, possiby look at keyboard to find home row again.. etc). (N and T are both on home row, no hand movement at all)
- hold T and tap F and P to input () INSTEAD of reaching out to SHIFT and tap 9 and 0 (T is on home row, F and P are just 1 key away from home row. shift 9 0 would mean reach to shift and reach to numbers, both is far away from home row)
- hold I and tap H for F5 INSTEAD of reaching to F5 key (I and H both on homerow, so no movement again. instead, F5 is usually far from homerow, at least 2 keys away.)
- hold N and CTRL, tap A / G to go to beginning/end of page/document.. instead of reaching to Home/End key ...
- hold O and tap Tab = alt-tab (i have to only move thumb 1 key maximum.. instead of reaching alt and tab, ok - tab key is easily reachable on good ergodox layout, but alt still is usually not)
many many more examples can show the reduction of movement required to input things.

Obviously the disadvantage is, that the whole thing does not work with just 1 hand, you HAVE to use 2 hands to use this. Sometimes you just want to enter a number or hit an F key when browsing the internet, then it can be troublesome to have to use 2 hands to do that.

Does this explain enough? Or did you mean something else?

[mathieubolla]

That's an interesting mod. What firmware do you use?

With TMK firmware and default tap-action timeout at 200ms, I notice I missed most keys in combination (Was using space as fn1 tap-key to get parenthesis for instance) Do you experience the same problem, or not? I finally replaced one space-fn1 with fn1, and space-fn2 with space (fn2 relocated on more unlikely key R. I now have problems with R...)

[Zutatensuppe]

@mathieubolla

I use this repo:

https://github.com/cub-uanic/tmk_keyboard.git

With a small modification (fixes tap/release stuff that made it impossible to type fast):
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/issues/215 , see last answer by hasu (tmk)

And I have set TAPPING_TERM in /keyboard/ergodox/config.h set to 200 instead of the original 230 from the repo.

Attached is the layout file (it still contains some extra keys, was too lazy to remove them... ).

(Edit: rewritten the answer)
(Edit2: the layer idea was first inspired by this (but i didnt find the overall layout balanced enough in the long run, so created my own version): https://github.com/luisbg/tmk_keyboard/blob/buteck/keyboard/ergodox/keymap_buteck.h )

[tp4tissue]

Hrrrrmm..

I've not found the movement issue to be a speed bottleneck on my ergodox..

But I suppose you're saying this increases efficiency..

Are you sure that a 2 key press can be accomplished much faster than a 2 column lateral movement.

[mathieubolla]

With a small modification (fixes tap/release stuff that made it impossible to type fast):
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/issues/215 , see last answer by hasu (tmk)

You made my day! Great, I'll have to try it with my https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83937.0 SIK keyboard (I think they share some similar design ideas...) Will maybe restore the space-fn tricks...

Are you sure that a 2 key press can be accomplished much faster than a 2 column lateral movement.

As far as I'm concerned, this is not really a speed issue, but a fatigue issue. I got tired of wrecking my pinkies to hold weird modifiers combos, and had to try putting the stress on my much bigger and more agile thumbs... Is it what you attempted here, Zutatensuppe ?

[algernon]

got tired of wrecking my pinkies to hold weird modifiers combos, and had to try putting the stress on my much bigger and more agile thumbs... Is it what you attempted here, Zutatensuppe ?

The easy solution to fatigue from holding modifiers is to not hold them: make them one-shot. That also allows you to put them on the thumbs, without having to twist your fingers while holding them.

[Maave]

make them one-shot. That also allows you to put them on the thumbs, without having to twist your fingers while holding them.

"One-shot", that's the term I've been trying to find for a while. I wrote myself an AHK script to turn Caps into a oneshot shift but I never knew what to call the feature. I'm glad I randomly read this thread.

[Zutatensuppe]

@tp4tissue: Sorry, I was not clear I think This is not primarily about speed, more about comfort / removing strain on hands/fingers. But theoretically a 2 key press should be faster when less movement is required.

@mathieubolla: Glad it helped you ^^ And yes to the 2nd question.

@algeron: did not try that yet, does it mean u hit a mod key and can release it and the next other key will be modified by the previous keypress? sounds interesting 


By the way, yesterday when I searched for information on how to build an own keyboard, I stumbled upon this VERY similar layout: https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hand-wired-54key-full-split-custom-build-t12545.html
This is almost exactly what I want to build ^^

[algernon]

@algernon: did not try that yet, does it mean u hit a mod key and can release it and the next other key will be modified by the previous keypress? sounds interesting 

Yep, that's exactly how it works. In my setup, I have an additional behaviour: if I dobule-tap the modifier, it remains toggled on until I tap it a third time. So I can double tap shift, and TYPE IN ALL CAPS until I tap it off. Handy when you need to shout for one reason or the other, or when you want to combine modifiers: ctrl ctrl alt alt del ctrl alt, and no need to do weird stretches to hold them all down. More taps, but less holds.

[tp4tissue]

As far as I'm concerned, this is not really a speed issue, but a fatigue issue. I got tired of wrecking my pinkies to hold weird modifiers combos, and had to try putting the stress on my much bigger and more agile thumbs... Is it what you attempted here, Zutatensuppe ?

Hahahahaha

Really ... Pinky Rekt from modifier keys ??

Exaggeration.. hahahaha

But yea, don't hold it,  practice touch and release with the 2 keys involved..

But,  still, 45g switch.. you're def too aggressive with your key holds..

[Maave]

As far as I'm concerned, this is not really a speed issue, but a fatigue issue. I got tired of wrecking my pinkies to hold weird modifiers combos, and had to try putting the stress on my much bigger and more agile thumbs... Is it what you attempted here, Zutatensuppe ?

Hahahahaha

Really ... Pinky Rekt from modifier keys ??

Exaggeration.. hahahaha

But yea, don't hold it,  practice touch and release with the 2 keys involved..

But,  still, 45g switch.. you're def too aggressive with your key holds..

"Emacs pinky" is definitely an issue if you perform a ton of Ctrl shortcuts. My job involves a ton of copy paste and I use W, T, A, S, E, Z shortcuts a lot as well. I've taken to hitting the right ctrl with my thumb. I should probably set that to 1-shot.

[tp4tissue]

As far as I'm concerned, this is not really a speed issue, but a fatigue issue. I got tired of wrecking my pinkies to hold weird modifiers combos, and had to try putting the stress on my much bigger and more agile thumbs... Is it what you attempted here, Zutatensuppe ?

Hahahahaha

Really ... Pinky Rekt from modifier keys ??

Exaggeration.. hahahaha

But yea, don't hold it,  practice touch and release with the 2 keys involved..

But,  still, 45g switch.. you're def too aggressive with your key holds..

"Emacs pinky" is definitely an issue if you perform a ton of Ctrl shortcuts. My job involves a ton of copy paste and I use W, T, A, S, E, Z shortcuts a lot as well. I've taken to hitting the right ctrl with my thumb. I should probably set that to 1-shot.

why not switch it to alt then, either autohotkey or edit windows or edit hotkey in your program

[Maave]

why not switch it to alt then, either autohotkey or edit windows or edit hotkey in your program

Left Alt is in a poor position for many of the left-side key combos (my most used ones). Right Alt is a good thumb position though. Left Ctrl is convenient position but just too strenuous when it's done a million times. I think that oneshot and thumb presses are the best for oft-used modifiers.

[mathieubolla]

I think it all depend on usage: A programmer coding will have different needs from an author writing a book or a scientist writing reports in tex...

[tp4tissue]

why not switch it to alt then, either autohotkey or edit windows or edit hotkey in your program

Left Alt is in a poor position for many of the left-side key combos (my most used ones). Right Alt is a good thumb position though. Left Ctrl is convenient position but just too strenuous when it's done a million times. I think that oneshot and thumb presses are the best for oft-used modifiers.

I hit left ctrl with my palm, the spot right before the first knuckle of my pinky.

[jcowgar]

I did something very similar and for the same reasons. I just switched to the Colemak layout and the Atreus keyboard (from an Apple keyboard on QWERTY) so my typing speed is about 40 WPM. I am wondering if I am going to run into problems having home row keys act as layer toggles once I get back up to my 95 WPM speed of Qwerty. Anyway, a bit about my layout: https://github.com/jackhumbert/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/atreus/keymaps/jeremy (including links to keyboard layout) for each layer.

[AMongoose]

That looks extremely comfy.

Great idea of using the home row as modifiers, I wonder if this would make as much sense in on non-split board.

[yellowfour]

Fanning out the thumb too much seems painful. also, bending and contorting the thumb too inward doesn't seem nimble or easy for 1-hand combos. I'd rather do a little reach above the main thumb key.

[Zutatensuppe]

@yellowfour:
yes your right, probably they wouldnt fan out like that in reality. i'd align them so that the farthest is at the place of the the middle 2size key on the normal ergodox thumb block. in my screenshot it would probably be the size of about half a key to either side (hope it can be understood) more far away is a bit hard to reach. ill adjust the layout when i have more time, always so hard to correctly position rotated keys in the tool ^^

and concerning inward bending: i'd align it so that it the most inward thumb key is positioned below home key for index finger. i use this and it is comfortable ^^

[Scoox]

I'm curious about using home row keys as modifiers. My previous experiments taught me that, while there are obvious ergonomic advantages to this approach, there is an unavoidable compromise to be made: it's impossible to send characters on key-down, in other words, you trade responsiveness for ergonomics.

My approach on the Ergodox, which heavily relies on layers (also with the help of AutoHotkey), is to put all modifiers on the number keys:

1 = LWin
2 = LShift
3 = LCtrl
4 = LAlt
7 = RAlt
8 = RCtrl
9 = RShift
0 = RWin

I also duplicate the LShift key on the rightmost thumb key of the right-hand thumbcluster.

I've never seen anyone do it his way. My approach has a number of benefits:
1) You can access all modifiers with the left hand while the right hand is one the mouse
2) You can access any combination of modifiers with one hand!! <<< THIS

The traditional and in my opinion  erroneous approach to put all modifiers on the thumb clusters is inconvenient because one thumb can only push one modifier at a time, two if you do some thumbcrobatics. More complex combinations usually require two thumbs i.e. two hands, which is sucky.

The reason I map both Left and Right modifiers is that some of the applications I use react differently to LCtrl and RCtrl, for example, but only for Modifier + Mouse combinations.

Also note that I've re-ordered my keycaps (I have the contoured ones) to make the numbers row (now the "modifiers row") easier to reach. Basically I've used taller keycaps for the modifiers row, so when I hit them there is no chance of hitting any other keys. Even though this requires an extra row of keys when compared with Zutatensuppe's minimalist design, I find this method is superior because no compromises are made. Using the right keycaps I have absolute no trouble or discomfort reaching the modifiers.

https://keyboard-configurator.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=BMWR7K&hash=dbc4c62a3a63ed8c509aa4ed6cf4f481

[algernon]

it's impossible to send characters on key-down, in other words, you trade responsiveness for ergonomics.

Except, it is possible. You just have to both register and unregister on keydown, and do nothing on keyup. You can even have multiple functions on the same key, and still register/unregister on keydown, though that does impose some delay - but you can make that less noticable the following way:

- If a tap-key is pressed, don't do a thing, just remember it was pressed.
- When released, don't do a thing, either.
- If any other key is pressed after this key has been pressed, then before you register that key, register and unregister the tap key, and then continue.
- If no other key has been pressed, keep counting taps until you reach the last functionality you want.

Or, to give a practical example: if I have a z/ctrl key, if I press z, and wait - it inputs z. If I press z, and follow with a quickly, it registers z first, then a. If I tap the key twice, it registers ctrl on keydown, and keeps it registered until keyup (or a third hit, or make it one-shot, whichever you find most convenient). With this setup, if you type normally, you won't notice any delay, because as soon as you press a, z appears too, and the delay is minimal, and you don't have to wait it out. Getting to the Control functionality is a bit harder, and you have to double tap for that - not such a big deal, especially when combined with one-shot.

This is all doable on the ErgoDox, be that an original, an EZ, or Infinity. QMK supports most of these out of the box, the rest with some coding.

I've never seen anyone do it his way. My approach has a number of benefits:
1) You can access all modifiers with the left hand while the right hand is one the mouse
2) You can access any combination of modifiers with one hand!! <<< THIS

The traditional and in my opinion  erroneous approach to put all modifiers on the thumb clusters is inconvenient because one thumb can only push one modifier at a time, two if you do some thumbcrobatics. More complex combinations usually require two thumbs i.e. two hands, which is sucky.

Sigh. Yet again, people forget that keys can act any way you want them to. One-shot modifiers on the thumb cluster: you have access to all modifiers with one hand, and you can do any combination, because you don't have to hold any of them. You just tap them in whatever sequence you wish, with your thumb. Just roll over all three if you want to. So much more comfortable than using three fingers just to hold CTRL+ALT+SHIFT, and then a fourth to hit whatever other key you wanted.

Embrace the one-shot.

[Zutatensuppe]

@algernon

i love the idea of your double shots, but unfortunately cant/dont want to use qmk on my infinity ergodox, because one of the displays stays lit while the other stays dark and they cant be programmed yet (i know this is probably neglectable and minor issue, but it looks so strange  )

currently i use this firmware fore infinity ergodox: https://github.com/fredizzimo/infinity_ergodox
but it is more tmk, and there are no double shots yet i'll have to wait to try that. maybe oneshot first ^^

[Scoox]

it's impossible to send characters on key-down, in other words, you trade responsiveness for ergonomics.

Except, it is possible. You just have to both register and unregister on keydown, and do nothing on keyup. You can even have multiple functions on the same key, and still register/unregister on keydown, though that does impose some delay - but you can make that less noticable the following way:

- If a tap-key is pressed, don't do a thing, just remember it was pressed.
- When released, don't do a thing, either.
- If any other key is pressed after this key has been pressed, then before you register that key, register and unregister the tap key, and then continue.
- If no other key has been pressed, keep counting taps until you reach the last functionality you want.

Or, to give a practical example: if I have a z/ctrl key, if I press z, and wait - it inputs z. If I press z, and follow with a quickly, it registers z first, then a. If I tap the key twice, it registers ctrl on keydown, and keeps it registered until keyup (or a third hit, or make it one-shot, whichever you find most convenient). With this setup, if you type normally, you won't notice any delay, because as soon as you press a, z appears too, and the delay is minimal, and you don't have to wait it out. Getting to the Control functionality is a bit harder, and you have to double tap for that - not such a big deal, especially when combined with one-shot.

This is all doable on the ErgoDox, be that an original, an EZ, or Infinity. QMK supports most of these out of the box, the rest with some coding.

I've never seen anyone do it his way. My approach has a number of benefits:
1) You can access all modifiers with the left hand while the right hand is one the mouse
2) You can access any combination of modifiers with one hand!! <<< THIS

The traditional and in my opinion  erroneous approach to put all modifiers on the thumb clusters is inconvenient because one thumb can only push one modifier at a time, two if you do some thumbcrobatics. More complex combinations usually require two thumbs i.e. two hands, which is sucky.

Sigh. Yet again, people forget that keys can act any way you want them to. One-shot modifiers on the thumb cluster: you have access to all modifiers with one hand, and you can do any combination, because you don't have to hold any of them. You just tap them in whatever sequence you wish, with your thumb. Just roll over all three if you want to. So much more comfortable than using three fingers just to hold CTRL+ALT+SHIFT, and then a fourth to hit whatever other key you wanted.

Embrace the one-shot.

That's very cool. So basically the catch is that you need to tap-release-tap-hold to access the secondary Ctrl function.

I'm merely speculating as I haven't looked into this, and I'm probably completely wrong, but with one-shot modifiers to use Shift+Alt+Ctrl you need 3 keystrokes just to engage the modifier, and another 3 should you decide you no longer need the modifier you probably would need to press those keys again to disengage.

If you want to do Shift+Left+Left+Left+Left (to select text), is it possible to "hold" one-shot modifiers, or would you need to press Shift+Left, Shift+Left, Shift+Left... ?

Shot in the dark but it seems double-tap modifiers are closer to dedicated modifier keys than one-shot modifiers. The one problem I see is this: I have my arrow keys mapped to a layer (which is shifted into by holding down one of the two big left thumb keys). My arrow keys are J, K, L, I. I would want my double-tap modifier keys mapped to keys J, K, L, ', so they would overlap. The modifiers would also be available on the left hand. Now, wouldn't that mean that there would be a delay when using the arrow keys? What if I want to repeatedly  press one of the arrow keys, which is quite a common thing to do when editing text or navigating around an Excel spreadsheet? I'm not trying to knock the concept, just trying to establish whether it would work for me. I do want my keyboard to be as compact as possible.

[algernon]

That's very cool. So basically the catch is that you need to tap-release-tap-hold to access the secondary Ctrl function.

Yep. If you have Ctrl as the secondary, then press-release-press-hold is the sequence. Unless you also made it one-shot, in which case you can release it too.

I'm merely speculating as I haven't looked into this, and I'm probably completely wrong, but with one-shot modifiers to use Shift+Alt+Ctrl you need 3 keystrokes just to engage the modifier, and another 3 should you decide you no longer need the modifier you probably would need to press those keys again to disengage.

Mmm, no. With one shots, when not combined with tap-dance, you just tap and release all three, and voila, all three are active. Pressing any non-modifier will clear ALL one-shot keys, but if you want a way to cancel them without any key registering, there's a solution for that, too: a macro. For example, on my ESC key, I have a macro that clears all one-shot state if active, and does not register ESC. If no one-shots are active, it registers the normal ESC keycode. This way I can easily cancel any one-shot modifiers or one-shot layers. (And ESC is conveniently located on the thumb cluster on my keyboard, so it's easy to reach while my thumb is already nearby due to the modifiers)

If you want to do Shift+Left+Left+Left+Left (to select text), is it possible to "hold" one-shot modifiers, or would you need to press Shift+Left, Shift+Left, Shift+Left... ?

You can of course hold one-shot modifiers, and they will act as you'd expect: stay active until held, and unregister when released. So it's Shift+Left+Left+..., like on a regular keyboard. Or if you want to avoid holding, then Shift, Shift, Left, Left, Left, Left, Shift. Double-tapping a one-shot modifier makes it sticky, hence the two shifts in the beginning, and the third one at the end turns it off. Easy to get used to, in my opinion, and frees up fingers, because you don't have to hold stuff, thus, less chance for weird gymnastics.

Shot in the dark but it seems double-tap modifiers are closer to dedicated modifier keys than one-shot modifiers.

Yes. But they still have the advantage of you not having to hold them.

The one problem I see is this: I have my arrow keys mapped to a layer (which is shifted into by holding down one of the two big left thumb keys). My arrow keys are J, K, L, I. I would want my double-tap modifier keys mapped to keys J, K, L, ', so they would overlap. The modifiers would also be available on the left hand. Now, wouldn't that mean that there would be a delay when using the arrow keys? What if I want to repeatedly  press one of the arrow keys, which is quite a common thing to do when editing text or navigating around an Excel spreadsheet? I'm not trying to knock the concept, just trying to establish whether it would work for me. I do want my keyboard to be as compact as possible.

If you want your one-shot mods and the arrow keys on the same keys, then yes, that would not work too well. One-shot mods are great when you can dedicate a key to them - which may seem like a waste when you have limited amount of keys, but if you only have one set of modifiers, then you just saved 3-4 keys by not having mods on both sides. There are many other keys you could use as double-tap keys, like layer switch keys, combined with keys you do not usually double-tap. For example, "a" may easily be a suitable layer switcher on double-tap. Or ";", or a number of others.

With an a/layer combo, you'd double-tap it to toggle the layer on, and tap another key there to go back to the base layer. This way you can still hold "a" and have it repeat. If you do competitive gaming, then "a" may be a bad choice, because the repeat will be slightly delayed - something you likely won't notice normally, but in a game, it shows. There are many other keys, however. Or you could have a gaming layer where there are no dual use keys, just a key somewhere to escape back to your default layer.

There are tons and tons of options when your keyboard is fully programmable.

[spindle]

make them one-shot. That also allows you to put them on the thumbs, without having to twist your fingers while holding them.

"One-shot", that's the term I've been trying to find for a while. I wrote myself an AHK script to turn Caps into a oneshot shift but I never knew what to call the feature. I'm glad I randomly read this thread.

On most OS's the oneshot concept is actually called sticky keys (the same one that you enable by hitting shift x 5 on windows). It also has the double tap to toggle that algernon mentionted. The only down side to the OS version is that  sticky keys is enabled for all the modifiers (alt, cltr, shift, meta/win), so tapping does win/meta isn't the same.

[spindle]

By the way, yesterday when I searched for information on how to build an own keyboard, I stumbled upon this VERY similar layout: https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hand-wired-54key-full-split-custom-build-t12545.html
This is almost exactly what I want to build ^^

My physical layout is even closer to yours, the only thing different, the only difference is I have 3 pinky keys in the outer most columns:


If you interested here's the firmware I wrote for the wired version. It's pretty easy to setup, just need 2 pro micros (3.5$ on ebay/aliexpress for the clones) and just need to run 3 wires between them.

[Maave]

On most OS's the oneshot concept is actually called sticky keys (the same one that you enable by hitting shift x 5 on windows). It also has the double tap to toggle that algernon mentionted. The only down side to the OS version is that  sticky keys is enabled for all the modifiers (alt, cltr, shift, meta/win), so tapping does win/meta isn't the same.

Thanks for the info. I've actually never looked into sticky keys. It's always just been "that annoying popup when I'm playing games" to me  )

[Zutatensuppe]

@spindle: wow, that looks awesome!! ill check out your link later. and i guess you have a wireless version, judging from the batteries? that is even more awesome! any tutorial on how to do that ? how is it working, any lag?
is it possible to get the laser cut templates?
how high is your wireless keyb profile?

[spindle]

@spindle: wow, that looks awesome!! ill check out your link later. and i guess you have a wireless version, judging from the batteries? that is even more awesome! any tutorial on how to do that ? how is it working, any lag?
is it possible to get the laser cut templates?
how high is your wireless keyb profile?

I don't have any tutorials on how to make the wireless stuff, you can find most of the info about it here. Recently I got it to work on a unifying receiver, but I haven't released the code for that yet. For the time being it's easier to get everything setup with the wired version (I would have posted a picture of that, but I don't think I have any, since I used it as the bases to make my wireless version).

Sorry, I don't have my case stuff uploaded anywhere atm. I will say though I'm still not 100% happy with the placement of the thumb cluster. I think the sweet spot is somewhere between the two versions I've made.

I think there's about ~7mm between the bottom of the key switches to the bottom of the keyboard.

[krasnovu]

Anyway, for now I just wanted to share the layout, maybe someone finds it useful ^^

Very intresting layout, but how I can press CTRL+F5 or CTRL+0 in your layout?

[ErgoMacros]

Hi,

Very intresting layout, but how I can press CTRL+F5 or CTRL+0 in your layout?

Good question, I'm not the author/designer but it looks to me like holding the right-hand Ctrl (0) key, then holding "|" (right- hand pinky) to switch to Layer 3, then tap F5 to generate CTRL-F5.
Holding down the left-CTRL, then holding "|" for Layer 3, then tap "zero" to generate CTRL-0.

I get some of your issues though... does the above have to be done in that order? Seems like maybe it would. Doing the L3 level change first would mean Ctrl is no longer available. Also requires 2 keys being held until the final key is tapped.

A more flexible choice would be to make the CTRL keys "one-shots" (where they apply to the next non-mode key pressed).
Then, for example you could tap either CTRL, then hold "|" for Layer 3, then tap "zero" to generate CTRL-0. (No holding 2 keys at a the same time.)

Best.

[Kebek]

Just wanna share an ergodox tip, credit to kuporific.
If you have the blank key caps wich are profiled, and the way you use the thumbs ctrl, it definitly worth to make a 180 rotation of the cap.
Try it, love it, credit XD but honestly it felt much more confortable for me.

[Sevetcyo]

Thanks Zutatensuppe and spindle for your ideas: they inspired me. I won't speak a lot, because I'm not fluent in english, and because I'm pretty late now :-/ And because I'm still a newbie.

First I put off some keys out of my massdrop ergodox, to get the feeling of a 40% keyboard.



Second, I kept my layout (qwerty-us-international) but I put it on two layers (there were 5 symbols that can't get in the first layer)...
Third, I needed my thumbs less far...


https://www.massdrop.com/configurator/ergodox?referer=LU3Y4E&hash=de9b5f96c7394ad419f5ac156a679d3c

It works pretty well for me. But I'd like I could code some hardware spaceFn on the space and enter key, respectively for toggle layer 1 and 2.
The massdrop configurator doesn't have the option, and I don't know where to start to learn to program my keyboard.
And I will add a key (far but big) to push/pop the layers.

One day, I'll build my own "bear paw" orthogonal split minimalist mousekeyboard. And it will look a little like that :

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/46212116016a708326c5714b16aa7cf0

[Sevetcyo]

[please delete this second message]

[ErgoMacros]

Sevetcyo,
Very nice work you've got there.
I've been working on a "minimal" Ergodox layout as well. I'm not done yet, but getting there.
    http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/7bbdeafcb218c460dc33075e18d52c15

Our base layers are fairly similar. Qwerty + standard punctuation + layer shift.
My Layer 1 is numeric in keypad arrangement and with the 1..0 (! to )) punctuation as shifts of the numbers. I'd considered putting the numbers on the home row. Still think that's not a bad arrangement.
My Layer 2 is function keys and cursor movement. Function keys match the positions of the numeric keys for F1-F10.

I put my cursor movement keys on the left hand thinking that I might use those with my right-handed mouse.

I really like your "bear claw" custom idea too. Like the short home-row keys. Do you know if there's a place to get 1/2 hight switches? and key caps?

Thanks for the ideas.

[Sevetcyo]

Thanks.
You did good work too!
I don't understand some keys... Do you have a link to the ergodoxEZ configurator page, if you use it ?

I think... You could put all your keys on only two layers. Maybe.
And get the two layers via SpaceFn layer1 and SpaceFn layer2. Maybe.
I wish I could use the ergodoxEZ configurator, but it doesn't have the software Teensy key.
I need to learn how to code for Teensy card!!!

I like the select line and word, like VIM.
I need Shift + ctrl + togglelayer1 to select a word. I use it, but it's not so intuitive.

I have also a problem for gaming. I would need numbers and five letters on the same layer that the arrow layer... Not possible for now, without a third layer, which is too complex for my mind.

Edit : I finally find a way to make a gaming version
https://www.massdrop.com/configurator/ergodox?referer=LU3Y4E&hash=0d4729238b3014c2c472d02d9185f32b
ergodoxeasyqwertyusinternational4gaming

[ErgoMacros]

Hi,

I was using the Ergodox EZ layout editor, but I've been drifting away... this is my last layout in their editor:
  http://configure.ergodox-ez.com/keyboard_layouts/qzjela/edit

They do support a "Reset" function (software Teensy key?), but as I recall I haven't had good luck with it. I just use a paper clip anyway.

I eventually had to move to compiled code, so that this layout is a bit out of date. The whole compiling thing is not too hard, but not easy. Helps a lot if you've programmed anything, especially C, before.

I'm implementing (making) my SpaceFn work by having it switch to another layer. I use SpaceFn on my (non-programable) 103 key keyboard at work. Do you have a different way?

I'm using OS X and they map things like Option+<right arrow> to next word and Option+Shift+<right arrow> to select next word. Command+Arrow for line.

I don't game, so that simplifies things.

Also, you (and certainly I) don't need as many modifier keys if we use "1-shot" keys. Tap and release Shift, then tap and release "a" and get "A".

Good luck!