Author Topic: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making  (Read 294690 times)

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Offline phetto

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #150 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 01:37:31 »
What will the final decision about the keycaps be? How about a vote Matias, I mean what the big crowd vote for will probably sell more and give more satisfaction for the users - and they will tell their friends about it and vice versa.

I think a poll for the keycaps would be nothing but good for you and the buyers. Nothing to loose, you will only gain respect and you can add 'The keycaps on this keyboard were developed with GeekHack.org - worlds biggest keyboard site, for maximum satisfaction and durability.'

my grammar and spelling are not top-notch, but I think people understand heh   :p

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #151 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 01:42:31 »
We've already started reaching out to other keyboard makers, and the response has been enthusiastic.  We'll be announcing more details as deals are made.

Having said that, the people they really want to hear from are customers.  If customers start asking for it, it'll happen -- so feel free to reach out them yourselves.  Good ideas only get propagated if the fans express their wishes.

Regarding PBT caps, what we've been told so far is that PBT material is not widely available in China, and that PBT caps are all made in Taiwan using some special process.  Will keep you posted as we learn more.

We'll look into Dyesub printing as well, but that's less likely.  We currently use either laser or UV printing, both of which are pretty much impervious to rubbing off.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 September 2012, 01:45:14 by Matias »

Offline therecorder

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #152 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 01:45:59 »
What will the final decision about the keycaps be? How about a vote Matias, I mean what the big crowd vote for will probably sell more and give more satisfaction for the users - and they will tell their friends about it and vice versa.

I think a poll for the keycaps would be nothing but good for you and the buyers. Nothing to loose, you will only gain respect and you can add 'The keycaps on this keyboard were developed with GeekHack.org - worlds biggest keyboard site, for maximum satisfaction and durability.'

my grammar and spelling are not top-notch, but I think people understand heh   :p
Am I missing something?  The keyboards are already finished, and arriving.  I assumed the keycap discussion was relative to separate sets for later purchase.

Offline phetto

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #153 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 01:48:33 »
Now I feel like a donkey. I'm so embarrassed  :-[

Offline therecorder

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #154 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 01:53:46 »
Now I feel like a donkey. I'm so embarrassed  :-[
Don't be...  The conversation hasn't exactly been following a straight line.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #155 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 13:33:39 »
SP has alps molds, and will do PBT dyesub, but their process is relatively inefficient compared to their 2-shot process, and color matching, registration boundaries, etc. are a pretty big issue for them, so they prefer to manufacture 2-shots.

also, they keep 0 alps keys in stock, so everything would have to be molded fresh (the only saving grace of dyesubs for MX for them).

if we start cranking out alps compatible boards here, that could change, but that's how things stand at the moment.
I know they have ABS moulds for ALPS, but I haven't seen any PBT ALPS keycaps from them. They already use different moulds for their ABS and PBT cherry keycaps.

Offline dirge

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #156 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 14:05:10 »
need that datasheet for the switches if your reading matias :)
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Offline Hak Foo

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« Reply #157 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 23:47:54 »
I never found a cherry board that feels as nice as an alps; and that even includes the crummy 'sort of white green alps' on the 1008/1087XM boards.

But cherry boards are super-easy to mod with their galaxy of a million different group orders and sacrificial parts.

I wonder if it's possible to make an ALPS switch with a Cherry-shaped stem end.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 September 2012, 23:49:49 by Hak Foo »
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Offline damorgue

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #158 on: Mon, 10 September 2012, 02:26:46 »
I wonder if it's possible to make an ALPS switch with a Cherry-shaped stem end.

That is what as always been my opinion too. It is close to impossible to break the market and supply more stuff for a new switch than what is already available to cherry stems. Preferably, it should have the same mounting points to which would make widespread adoption much easier.

I have assumed that the only reason why this hasn't been done is copyright issues.

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #159 on: Mon, 10 September 2012, 02:29:37 »
Preferably, it should have the same mounting points to which would make widespread adoption much easier.

So, would you prefer that the new switches came in both ALPS and Cherry MX compatible versions, or would you have Matias drop ALPS PCB and keycap compatibility entirely?
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Offline damorgue

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #160 on: Mon, 10 September 2012, 03:21:25 »
Preferably, it should have the same mounting points to which would make widespread adoption much easier.

So, would you prefer that the new switches came in both ALPS and Cherry MX compatible versions, or would you have Matias drop ALPS PCB and keycap compatibility entirely?

I understood it as if these switches won't be compatible with older alps, but I might have gotten that wrong though. Some compatibility would be great, either to the caps or the location of the pins. Yes, I do believe that compatibility with cherry would be a better choice to get more available caps and boards, as well as a faster adoption, provided it is possible. I guess we will see just how different or compatible these will be soon.

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #161 on: Mon, 10 September 2012, 03:32:33 »
From Matias:

Yes, they are plug compatible with standard ALPS switches.  They can be soldered into any ALPS board.

All ALPS switches are mutually compatible, but Fukka switches seemed to have bounce issues that caused transposition errors as they gave both Matias and Diatec problems.
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Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #162 on: Mon, 10 September 2012, 23:47:44 »
SP has alps molds, and will do PBT dyesub, but their process is relatively inefficient compared to their 2-shot process, and color matching, registration boundaries, etc. are a pretty big issue for them, so they prefer to manufacture 2-shots.

also, they keep 0 alps keys in stock, so everything would have to be molded fresh (the only saving grace of dyesubs for MX for them).

if we start cranking out alps compatible boards here, that could change, but that's how things stand at the moment.
I know they have ABS moulds for ALPS, but I haven't seen any PBT ALPS keycaps from them. They already use different moulds for their ABS and PBT cherry keycaps.


I know that you can't use ABS moulds for PBT.  They have different shrinkage properties.

That said, right now we're focused on gearing up for launch.  We'll look into this more when time is less tight.



Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #163 on: Tue, 11 September 2012, 00:02:06 »
I never found a cherry board that feels as nice as an alps; and that even includes the crummy 'sort of white green alps' on the 1008/1087XM boards.

Agreed.

But cherry boards are super-easy to mod with their galaxy of a million different group orders and sacrificial parts.

I wonder if it's possible to make an ALPS switch with a Cherry-shaped stem end.

I vaguely recall some company in the past having done this, but I'm not sure.  It could be my mind playing tricks.  I'll look into it.

That is what as always been my opinion too. It is close to impossible to break the market and supply more stuff for a new switch than what is already available to cherry stems. Preferably, it should have the same mounting points to which would make widespread adoption much easier.

Having the same mounting points would not be possible.  The mounting points depend on the internal structure of the switch, which is different between ALPS and Cherry.



Offline dorkvader

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 12 September 2012, 01:06:21 »
But cherry boards are super-easy to mod with their galaxy of a million different group orders and sacrificial parts.

I wonder if it's possible to make an ALPS switch with a Cherry-shaped stem end.

I vaguely recall some company in the past having done this, but I'm not sure.  It could be my mind playing tricks.  I'll look into it.
The opposite has been made. Cherry switches with ALPS-compatible stems exist.

I just searched through a ton of DT photos and couldn't find it again, though.

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #165 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 13:45:40 »
Matias, Get the keyboards yet?

Yes, the keyboards are in, and on their way to our US warehouse!

We checked a bunch of 'em and they feel great -- actually better than the pre-production sample I've been using.

We're aiming for launch mid-week.  I'll post another update soon.  Thanks to everyone who's been patiently waiting.



Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #166 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 13:48:57 »

I vaguely recall some company in the past having done this, but I'm not sure.  It could be my mind playing tricks.  I'll look into it.
The opposite has been made. Cherry switches with ALPS-compatible stems exist.

I just searched through a ton of DT photos and couldn't find it again, though.
[/quote]

Well, that just goes to show how much popularity can change...



Offline AKIMbO

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #167 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 17:27:56 »
Matias, Get the keyboards yet?

Yes, the keyboards are in, and on their way to our US warehouse!

We checked a bunch of 'em and they feel great -- actually better than the pre-production sample I've been using.

We're aiming for launch mid-week.  I'll post another update soon.  Thanks to everyone who's been patiently waiting.

Can you update the webpage ahead of time so that I can preorder a PC Quiet Tactile version?  I'm afraid these are going to sell out fast and I'll miss out on the first batch unless you made a ton of them.

^What this guy said....must pre-order.
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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #168 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 17:35:46 »
Can you update the webpage ahead of time so that I can preorder a PC Quiet Tactile version?

You know, I'm torn between a hatred for the redundancy of word "please", and the social conditioning of its requirement that makes its absence irrationally indicate bad manners. I can't escape the brainwashing, and this bothers me. There is much in society that I flagrantly ignore because it's stupid, but some rules cannot be so easily sidestepped.

Besides, I don't get to play with this keyboard for a few more months, as I need the ISO version :) I just need another keyboard for my desk at work ... sigh, I can't even fit another one on my desk, I already have all available space consumed by three back to back.
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Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #169 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 18:03:02 »
Quote from: Daniel Beardsmore[/quote
You know, I'm torn between a hatred for the redundancy of word "please", and the social conditioning of its requirement that makes its absence irrationally indicate bad manners. I can't escape the brainwashing, and this bothers me. There is much in society that I flagrantly ignore because it's stupid, but some rules cannot be so easily sidestepped.

I've been asking nicely for a preorder page for weeks!

I will not be a happy camper if the entire batch is sold in a couple hours while I'm away from the computer...

Don't worry, I'll be posting here first, so you'll get first dibs.

No please necessary...  :)


Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #170 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 18:03:53 »
Besides, I don't get to play with this keyboard for a few more months, as I need the ISO version :) I just need another keyboard for my desk at work ... sigh, I can't even fit another one on my desk, I already have all available space consumed by three back to back.

First world problems...  :)



Offline mkawa

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #171 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 01:47:24 »
Besides, I don't get to play with this keyboard for a few more months, as I need the ISO version :) I just need another keyboard for my desk at work ... sigh, I can't even fit another one on my desk, I already have all available space consumed by three back to back.
First world problems.. :)
i think hashbaz recently coined a more appropriate phrase: "nerd world problems" ;)

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Offline iMav

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Re: Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #172 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 02:48:38 »
Don't worry, I'll be posting here first, so you'll get first dibs.
No please necessary...  :)
Not necessary but, I assume, appreciated.

Definitely have to try one of these out for myself once they officially go on sale.  (Clicky, Mac version)

Offline __red__

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #173 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 02:56:06 »
Congratulations Matias!

So, keyboards are next week...  Any idea on a date for switches?

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #174 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 08:25:44 »
You guys are harrassing him like the world's really going to end in December. I don't doubt that the end of the world is drawing near, but I'm fairly certain that the switches will go on sale well in advance of the termination of human life on earth.
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Offline longweight

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #175 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 08:52:23 »
I love the sense of entitlement of some users in this thread!

Offline AKIMbO

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Re: Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #176 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 09:13:32 »
You guys are harrassing him like the world's really going to end in December. I don't doubt that the end of the world is drawing near, but I'm fairly certain that the switches will go on sale well in advance of the termination of human life on earth.

W are just excited.  Don't get your knickers in a bunch.
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #177 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 09:14:59 »
It's also an attention strategy.  If they don't keep going on about it they may forget altogether.  :)
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Offline __red__

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #178 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 21:37:53 »
I would be amazed if any business was offended by excitement and enthusiasm for their products.

Offline Elrick

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #179 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 21:46:15 »
I don't doubt that the end of the world is drawing near, but I'm fairly certain that the switches will go on sale well in advance of the termination of human life on earth.

Damn, you're starting to think like me.   Scary isn't it........  :o

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #180 on: Sun, 16 September 2012, 00:39:52 »
I sincerely apologize to Matias, iMav, or anyone else I might have offended.

I would be amazed if any business was offended by excitement and enthusiasm for their products.


I must say, this is one of the most polite and civilized discussion boards I've seen on the Internet.

Again, no offence taken and I agree with __red__ above.  We are very grateful for the interest and enthusiasm.

Will have more news for you soon...



Offline perragnar

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #181 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 11:15:29 »
I'm sorry if I have missed this but will there be different layouts? Not US-only.

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #182 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 12:04:08 »
I'm sorry if I have missed this but will there be different layouts? Not US-only.

Yes, we have 3 non-US layouts currently on order...
  • PC - UK
  • PC - German
  • PC - Nordic (Sweden, Finland, Norway)
Feel free to post requests for others.



Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #183 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 12:15:27 »
How about Mac layouts? There's a guy who wants a Cherry MX blue Macintosh keyboard for his parents, in Nordic layout. There is no such keyboard!

I'd forgotten about Unicomp actually (they do Mac keyboards) but the TP3 is a much more devoted product, and it would be nice to have something Nordic for Mac, i.e. not force ISO layout onto ANSI, or ISO characters into ANSI mapping, or Mac operation onto a Windows keyboard (FILCO keyboards come in Nordic, but not Mac).

I guess it's one of those demand issues – too many people are content to learn ANSI to increase their variety.
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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #184 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 12:23:42 »
Purchasing paralysis? Too much choice?
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #185 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 12:31:57 »
I guess it's one of those demand issues – too many people are content to learn ANSI to increase their variety.

I miss the big enter key so much :( but probably ANSI is better for coding...

Offline perragnar

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #186 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 12:32:46 »
I'm sorry if I have missed this but will there be different layouts? Not US-only.

Yes, we have 3 non-US layouts currently on order...
  • PC - UK
  • PC - German
  • PC - Nordic (Sweden, Finland, Norway)
Feel free to post requests for others.



Excellent, thank you.

Offline pasph

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #187 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 12:45:04 »
Italian? i know, it never going to happen...
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Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #188 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 13:19:03 »
How about Mac layouts? There's a guy who wants a Cherry MX blue Macintosh keyboard for his parents, in Nordic layout. There is no such keyboard!

Sorry, we don't do Cherry.  :-)

Italian? i know, it never going to happen...

Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here.  If more expresss interest, you may get your wish.  Are you Mac or PC?


Offline jwaz

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #189 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 13:32:30 »
I'm curious, what makes you so resolute against Cherry?

Offline pasph

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #190 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 13:44:10 »
How about Mac layouts? There's a guy who wants a Cherry MX blue Macintosh keyboard for his parents, in Nordic layout. There is no such keyboard!

Sorry, we don't do Cherry.  :-)

Italian? i know, it never going to happen...

Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here.  If more expresss interest, you may get your wish.  Are you Mac or PC?

PC, thank you for having taken into consideration
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #191 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 13:58:11 »
Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here.  If more expresss interest, you may get your wish.  Are you Mac or PC?

I'm in contact with the coordinator of a very large Italian Mac community (http://www.tevac.com/), how many people do you need to take the italian version into consideration? I bet that if they start talking about mechanical keyboards with Italian layout you'll be flooded pretty quickly

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #192 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 14:04:38 »
I'm curious, what makes you so resolute against Cherry?


Several reasons...
  • There is no shortage of companies doing Cherry boards.  I don't think we'd be adding much if we did one.

  • Cherry switches have linear force curves, which are good for gaming, but not so great for typing.

  • Our switches have tactile force curves, which are much more difficult to design, but feel better.  If you spend most of your time typing / coding, tactile is better.

  • I personally don't find linear switches appealing.  For example, linear rubber dome switches are widely (and rightly) judged as crappy and cheap.  I don't understand why anybody likes them better just because they're mechanical.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose...



Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #193 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 14:09:59 »
Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here.  If more expresss interest, you may get your wish.  Are you Mac or PC?

I'm in contact with the coordinator of a very large Italian Mac community (http://www.tevac.com/), how many people do you need to take the italian version into consideration? I bet that if they start talking about mechanical keyboards with Italian layout you'll be flooded pretty quickly


Normally, we'd need to get an order for 500 pcs., but since we're already doing those other countries, 200 pcs would be enough.

I would encourage them to contact The Keyboard Company, as they are handling our European sales.



Offline pasph

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #194 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 14:56:39 »
I will try to spread the word in another hw forum (http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/) where lately we've started a thread about mechanical keyboards
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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #195 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 15:14:32 »
How about Mac layouts? There's a guy who wants a Cherry MX blue Macintosh keyboard for his parents, in Nordic layout. There is no such keyboard!

Sorry, we don't do Cherry.  :-)

I meant a Tactile Pro with the new clicky ALPS in Nordic Macintosh layout, although I honestly imagine his parents would prefer the dampened ALPS ;-) It's relatively easy for you as it just involves relasering, compared to companies that don't even have Windows ISO PCBs and plates made let alone Macintosh ISO PCBs/plates.

I was just giving the context of what he asked for.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #196 on: Tue, 18 September 2012, 09:31:25 »
Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here.  If more expresss interest, you may get your wish.  Are you Mac or PC?

I'm in contact with the coordinator of a very large Italian Mac community (http://www.tevac.com/), how many people do you need to take the italian version into consideration? I bet that if they start talking about mechanical keyboards with Italian layout you'll be flooded pretty quickly


Normally, we'd need to get an order for 500 pcs., but since we're already doing those other countries, 200 pcs would be enough.

I would encourage them to contact The Keyboard Company, as they are handling our European sales.



I'm sorry if I have missed this but will there be different layouts? Not US-only.

Yes, we have 3 non-US layouts currently on order...
  • PC - UK
  • PC - German
  • PC - Nordic (Sweden, Finland, Norway)
Feel free to post requests for others.



Dvorak. I'm one, can we get 499 others?

Probably not, but if so, I'd certainly get one.

Offline nullstring

  • Posts: 267
Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #197 on: Tue, 18 September 2012, 11:09:39 »
I miss the big enter key so much :( but probably ANSI is better for coding...

Oh how I hate the big enter key.... :)

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #198 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 02:34:33 »
Okay, the pages are up...

http://matias.ca/quietpro

The press release will go out tomorrow, but you heard it hear first.   :-)



Offline dirge

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #199 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 03:00:17 »
Nice :)

bring on the switches :D
Thinking about things isn't the same as doing things. Otherwise everybody would be in jail.