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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Hyde on Fri, 07 September 2012, 19:27:55

Title: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 07 September 2012, 19:27:55
UPDATE:

So a Das Keyboard representative stepped up and clarify that it's NOT iOne.  We still don't know which the new OEM is.

But based on member reviews, it appears that the quality has indeed went DOWN compare to their Costar counterpart.



====================  ORIGINAL POST  ====================

So I've heard rumour flying around that Das switched manufacture, so I e-mailed Das and got this reply:
Quote

Thanks for your interest in Das Keyboard. I can't disclose the names of our vendors, but I can say that the new media keyboards are made in China. The Ultimate and Professional for Mac keyboards are made in Taiwan.

If you have any other questions please let me know.

Kind regards,

Das Keyboard Support


Made in China eh, I wonder if they joined iOne :confused:

Oh I heard another rumour that Das Keyboard Professional S and Professional S Silent is discontinued.  So there will only be Media Edition from here on.  I guess the Mac Edition is still ok, otherwise this sounds like the end of Das Keyboard.  At least for the high end users like us anyway...  Sighhhhh I was hoping they'd jump on the backlit Costar bandwagon, I guess I'll to wait for Filco

P.S:  Good thing I have the original Costar made one ;D
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Carter on Fri, 07 September 2012, 19:52:04
No body believed me
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 07 September 2012, 20:07:31
LOL I saw your post on overclock.net that's why I e-mailed them to confirm.  I believed you but I just like to see hard evidence lolllllll :P

Sorry this is off topic but it's hard to catch you so I figure I'll ask you here.  Is there a release date and pricing on CM Storm Recon yet?  I made a post on the mice forum but it seems like you don't hang in the mice forum much :(
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Carter on Fri, 07 September 2012, 20:15:40
it will launch this month: price point: $39.99
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 07 September 2012, 20:30:37
I'm guessing it's probably because mainland prices are significantly lower than even taiwan prices.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Sat, 08 September 2012, 00:08:30
Yeah I think it all comes down to production cost.  Because the general public won't know the difference between a Razer Blackwidow and a Filco.  But I think it will lose out big on sales for the high end users.

It's sad because back then I'd recommend Das right away because it's similar to Filco quality yet a lot cheaper (with student discount) also look very stylish.  But now I'd not recommend because it could have potential quality control issue.  That and the media edition has 4 keys on bottom left corner and a shorter space bar, in general I don't like unconventional layout.  I guess only time will tell.

@Carter
Quote

it will launch this month: price point: $39.99


omg I'm so buying one thanks Carter ! :eek:
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: elef on Sat, 08 September 2012, 05:34:22
Most Apple products are made in mainland China, aren't they? I don't think I've heard of too many quality control problems...
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Carter on Sat, 08 September 2012, 08:36:51
Most Apple products are made in mainland China, aren't they? I don't think I've heard of too many quality control problems...

Foxconn vs most mainland china factories is a whole different ball game. Attention to detail only comes from Taiwan. But you in turn pay for it in pure cost.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 08 September 2012, 09:03:16
Hi guys,

Candid question - Does changing vendor must mean changing product? Or can it be the same product/specs but just built elsewhere?

I'm looking forward to have one of our GH experts to inspect and compare a new Made in China DAS with the previous version.

I too was recommending DAS... I'll wait to see couples of credible reviews before doing so again.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 08 September 2012, 10:20:13
Hi guys,

Candid question - Does changing vendor must mean changing product? Or can it be the same product/specs but just built elsewhere?

I'm looking forward to have one of our GH experts to inspect and compare a new Made in China DAS with the previous version.

I too was recommending DAS... I'll wait to see couples of credible reviews before doing so again.

No, changing oem doesn-t mean changing product

HOWEVER, if the OEM has a bad reputation for sub-par quality and assembly, well then it doesn-t matter what you-re having them make.


IF it turns out that DAS is going with iONE, basically NONE of us here at geekhack will ever buy another one of their keyboards.

We, will also cultivate an unwarrented hatred of all things DAS, and yearn for the good ol- days when things were right with all out Costar

And some of us, not me, but some of us will spread rumors like how Das sacrifice cute baby animals to make their keyboards and the like...
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 08 September 2012, 11:12:05
They should have went back with Cherry. Das II was nicer looking. Oh well you can still get it from Cherry as G80-3000LPCXY-2. So I guess that is 4 oem for them now, Keytronic, Cherry, Costar, ?.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 08 September 2012, 11:20:36
IF it turns out that DAS is going with iONE, basically NONE of us here at geekhack will ever buy another one of their keyboards.

We, will also cultivate an unwarrented hatred of all things DAS, and yearn for the good ol- days when things were right with all out Costar

I do consider myself as "one of us".

The secret of iOne low cost is food deprivation of their under age laborers
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 08 September 2012, 13:00:45
IF it turns out that DAS is going with iONE, basically NONE of us here at geekhack will ever buy another one of their keyboards.

We, will also cultivate an unwarrented hatred of all things DAS, and yearn for the good ol- days when things were right with all out Costar

I do consider myself as "one of us".

The secret of iOne low cost is food deprivation of their under age laborers

Goodness, Gracious, Gasp... :o ... My God!
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Sat, 08 September 2012, 13:37:15
Quote
IF it turns out that DAS is going with iONE, basically NONE of us here at geekhack will ever buy another one of their keyboards.

lol omg what have I done, haha not trying to start a Das bashing thread or something because personally I do own a Das Keyboard (Costar One), was just hoping to educate the masses on their next keyboard purchase.  However I do agree with this statement, if it turns out to be iOne I think no one on this forum would recommend Das anymore (Including Me) :(

This reminds me anyone know what happens when manufacture switches OEM?  Do they just ship over the mold / cast / equipment ... etc to the new factory?  Or do they just use the equipments at the new factory?  Switching OEM sounds like a really costy operation.

Quote
I'm looking forward to have one of our GH experts to inspect and compare a new Made in China DAS with the previous version.

I too was recommending DAS... I'll wait to see couples of credible reviews before doing so again.

I'm curious about this also hopefully someone will do it soon :)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 08 September 2012, 15:35:03
Quote
IF it turns out that DAS is going with iONE, basically NONE of us here at geekhack will ever buy another one of their keyboards.

lol omg what have I done, haha not trying to start a Das bashing thread or something because personally I do own a Das Keyboard (Costar One), was just hoping to educate the masses on their next keyboard purchase.  However I do agree with this statement, if it turns out to be iOne I think no one on this forum would recommend Das anymore (Including Me) :(

This reminds me anyone know what happens when manufacture switches OEM?  Do they just ship over the mold / cast / equipment ... etc to the new factory?  Or do they just use the equipments at the new factory?  Switching OEM sounds like a really costy operation.

Quote
I'm looking forward to have one of our GH experts to inspect and compare a new Made in China DAS with the previous version.

I too was recommending DAS... I'll wait to see couples of credible reviews before doing so again.

I'm curious about this also hopefully someone will do it soon :)

They will probably use whatever iOne has in house, with minor variation to visual styling.

Notice how every one of iOne keyboard has those 2 1x keys on the bottom row.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 08 September 2012, 15:58:42
They should have went back with Cherry. Das II was nicer looking. Oh well you can still get it from Cherry as G80-3000LPCXY-2.

I always considered the Cherry G80-3000 range to be ungainly. That's the main reason I went with FILCO, although I then discovered that I had no choice as Cherry won't put browns into a keyboard anyway.

The Das looks lovely, but anyhing shiny surely just smears – like that glossy HP laptop I saw that was completely covered all over in grease and fingerprints. Really disgusting.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 08 September 2012, 17:28:13
They should have went back with Cherry. Das II was nicer looking. Oh well you can still get it from Cherry as G80-3000LPCXY-2.

I always considered the Cherry G80-3000 range to be ungainly. That's the main reason I went with FILCO, although I then discovered that I had no choice as Cherry won't put browns into a keyboard anyway.

The Das looks lovely, but anyhing shiny surely just smears – like that glossy HP laptop I saw that was completely covered all over in grease and fingerprints. Really disgusting.

Depends on your keyboard habit.

My keyboard is stationary, and I never touch the bezel, I don't avoid it, I just don't do it.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 08 September 2012, 19:06:59
On my work (but not home) FILCOs, I find that the case has worn shiny around the up arrow key. I have no idea what I'm doing to cause that. The level of dust on my home keyboard suggests that I don't touch anything but the keys ;-)

(Both keys have coating wear on just the 'S' key – never figured that out either.)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 09 September 2012, 03:02:27
On my work (but not home) FILCOs, I find that the case has worn shiny around the up arrow key. I have no idea what I'm doing to cause that. The level of dust on my home keyboard suggests that I don't touch anything but the keys ;-)

(Both keys have coating wear on just the 'S' key – never figured that out either.)

I've seem some people rest their fingers there. Some people also have a form of impulse control disorder, similar to trichotillomania, but instead of hair pulling they rub things back and forth with their fingers.

Head up your local college and pretend to be a student and get a free diagnosis.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sun, 09 September 2012, 06:42:48
Diagnosis? If anyone tried diagnosing me their head would asplode.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: anselben on Sun, 09 September 2012, 11:54:21
So from this does that mean their build quality is no longer as good? Because I just noticed my F1 key switch on my Das is becoming sticky for some reason.. I would hate to get a replacement that was a p.o.s.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Sun, 09 September 2012, 17:13:36
Yeah well it's not confirmed that the new vendor is iOne yet, but if it is.  It will means Das will become more hit or miss.  Like it either works or break down in 2 weeks.  So if you're F1 is having issue I'd go get it exchanged for a non-media edition.  Because only the media edition is made by a different company.  Anything that says Model S Professional is made by Costar.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: sth on Sun, 09 September 2012, 17:15:06
Diagnosis? If anyone tried diagnosing me their head would asplode.
i bet you're not as 'special' as you think ;)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Mon, 10 September 2012, 22:53:25

If you look at the window and function keys, they're 1x1 size.  That screams iOne for me >______>
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: nullstring on Mon, 10 September 2012, 23:42:58
alleged $40 price point is interesting though.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: m00nshake on Wed, 19 September 2012, 11:23:05
Just noticed that the Das Professional Standard and Professional are sold out on newegg. On the Das website, they only have the new ones listed on their main page. Looks like they are phasing it out. Judging by the layout, I think it must be an Ione board as well.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 19 September 2012, 12:54:47
Yeah the non-media edition models start to go on sale now.  At least at Canada Computers it's -$20 and NCIX has -$15.

If you want to get any quality Das Keyboard now is the last chance lol.  After the Costar ones sold out then Das is no more :P
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: m00nshake on Wed, 19 September 2012, 14:44:19
I was thinking about returning my Das as I'm within the 30 day window and just paying the extra to get another Filco but I might keep it now. I actually kind of like the glossy finish. :)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 19 September 2012, 19:14:26
I was thinking about returning my Das as I'm within the 30 day window and just paying the extra to get another Filco but I might keep it now. I actually kind of like the glossy finish. :)

;D that's what they all say until it scratches....
Title: Re: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: m00nshake on Wed, 19 September 2012, 19:18:45
I was thinking about returning my Das as I'm within the 30 day window and just paying the extra to get another Filco but I might keep it now. I actually kind of like the glossy finish. :)

;D that's what they all say until it scratches....

Grrr... I just noticed a scratch on mine.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 20 September 2012, 00:14:42
I was thinking about returning my Das as I'm within the 30 day window and just paying the extra to get another Filco but I might keep it now. I actually kind of like the glossy finish. :)

;D that's what they all say until it scratches....

I kind of like my Das' gloss finish too.  Also the hidden LED light is a nice touch.  I think overall Das feels more "modern" while Filco feels more "classic".  Though I do like Filco's thinner boarder better.  It's sorta a different feel I think I like both :P

As for the scratches I think I've learn to accept it now, plus overall it's not too noticeable and most of the time it can look good as new after some quick wiping lol.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: i488 on Thu, 20 September 2012, 02:58:32
leopolds are made in china. iphones are made in china. but ione sux
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: stingrae on Thu, 20 September 2012, 05:05:35
leopolds are made in china. iphones are made in china. but ione sux

Are you sure about leopolds I thought they were made in Korea(http://www.keyboardlover.com/popularkeyboards.php) or Japan? (given: https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/215431_10101273694956923_2106634783_n.jpg)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: perragnar on Thu, 20 September 2012, 08:00:08
My Leopold says 'Made in Taiwan'.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 20 September 2012, 08:12:06
My Leopold says 'Made in Taiwan'.

taiwan is a good but small part of China.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 20 September 2012, 08:13:17
I was thinking about returning my Das as I'm within the 30 day window and just paying the extra to get another Filco but I might keep it now. I actually kind of like the glossy finish. :)

;D that's what they all say until it scratches....

I kind of like my Das' gloss finish too.  Also the hidden LED light is a nice touch.  I think overall Das feels more "modern" while Filco feels more "classic".  Though I do like Filco's thinner boarder better.  It's sorta a different feel I think I like both :P

As for the scratches I think I've learn to accept it now, plus overall it's not too noticeable and most of the time it can look good as new after some quick wiping lol.

You're just rationalizing the imperfections of your keyboard... This is akin to "Stockholm syndrome lite-edition"
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 20 September 2012, 12:01:47
My Leopold says 'Made in Taiwan'.

taiwan is a good but small part of China.

Uhhhh Taiwan is not part of China, otherwise it would say made in China and not made in Taiwan.  They also have different government system while China is communist, Taiwan is democratic.

But anyway ignore all the politics just keyboard productions quality wise Taiwan > China.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: m00nshake on Thu, 20 September 2012, 19:33:00
Either way, the Das (I guess version 2 is the one before the media keys), is still a nice keyboard, IMHO, and at least it's different than the other ones out there. I got this one at $90, I think I'll keep it, scratches or not. Not to mention my only options for a full deck Costar-made keyboard right now with blue cherry mx are limited to Filco (not available on Amazon right now), Rosewill (no thanks, I don't want to take the gamble on a faulty USB connection), and WASD (nice board, but still more expensive than what I paid for the Das).
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 20 September 2012, 20:50:08
Yeah it's pretty much why I bought my Das, it's the cheapest full size Costar board out there.  Also one of the better looking ones too (in my opinion).  I was close to buying CM Storm QuickFire Rapid but in the end I think I use my number pad too much to give that up :P

Oh as for Das:

Das I = Rubberdome
Das II = Cherry Board
Das III = Costar Board (Professional S)
Das IV = iOne Board (Media Edition, probably iOne but not confirmed yet)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: m00nshake on Fri, 21 September 2012, 04:57:42
Ok thanks for the clarification on the versions. I like tenkeyless as well but my full decks take precedence because I too have become used to the number pad after years of data entry. If the new Das with media keys has a smaller space bar and 1x keys on the bottom row around the space bar, it's probably an Ione board.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: exousia7 on Wed, 31 October 2012, 02:42:23
So right now the only Das made by Costar are the Ultimate and Mac editions? Or have they been changed to iOne also.......
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: wetto on Wed, 31 October 2012, 09:41:52
So right now the only Das made by Costar are the Ultimate and Mac editions? Or have they been changed to iOne also.......

I suppose not YET, but sooner or later it will happen.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: pitashen on Wed, 31 October 2012, 10:33:53
Das and geekhackers don't mix together well anyway. ppl would be more OMG!!! if Filco turns to cheapo OEMs.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 31 October 2012, 11:42:14
Das was overhyped. That is why I got mine. After using cmstorm I find Das to not feel as nice.

My das had some sticky switches, and just yesterday the H key went out so I lubed it up! And yes the scratches make it that less elegant.

Costar das.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 31 October 2012, 13:06:54
I find I actually like my Das a lot, I mean yeah the scratches is a bit annoying but overall it still look quite nice.

That and it's the cheapest Costar full size keyboard you can get, which was why I got it originally.  (Rosewill didn't count because their mini B connector sucks)

I guess the easiest way to check is if you flip over the keyboard:

Made In Taiwan = Costar
Made In China = iOne

Or like people said, look for the bottom modifiers, if you see 1x1 then it's probably iOne.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: wetto on Wed, 31 October 2012, 13:16:08
I find I actually like my Das a lot, I mean yeah the scratches is a bit annoying but overall it still look quite nice.

That and it's the cheapest Costar full size keyboard you can get, which was why I got it originally.  (Rosewill didn't count because their mini B connector sucks)

I guess the easiest way to check is if you flip over the keyboard:

Made In Taiwan = Costar
Made In China = iOne

Or like people said, look for the bottom modifiers, if you see 1x1 then it's probably iOne.

Don't forget, while the exterior isn't one of the best, the interior quality is top-grade. I mean, I saw comparison between FILCO vs Das on inside components and man, I got quite surprised.

Then again, even on Quickfire Rapids maaaaany people always end up changing keycaps... Why not do that on a Das if you don't like them?
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Aimee-DasKeyboard on Tue, 27 November 2012, 15:17:08
Hey guys, there appear to be some rumors that we are working with iONE on our keyboards, and this has created some confusion among our customers. Please note that iONE is not currently one of our manufacturing partners.

Quality is at the forefront of everything we do at Das Keyboard. Our goal is to create the best keyboard and the only way to do that is to put quality first. In 2012, we made a significant investment in additional factories to meet expanding demand and have carefully chosen additional manufacturers who reflect the same level of quality we have always stood for. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to send us a message over at Das Keyboard and we’d be happy to address them.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 27 November 2012, 16:39:17
Welcome to geekhack !!!

So we forced a Das Keyboard employee to sign up to geekhack LOLLLLL !!!!!

I'm sorry about that but I guess like I said we're not trying to bash Das or anything.  Personally me and my g/f both own one and we both love it.  I guess at geekhack we're just picky about... well everything and we want to know the truth.

But thanks for showing up and clarify things, it shows that you guys really care about your customers  :)

On a side note I wonder if this is the secret factory that makes CM Storm TK that Carter won't tell us about.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: vun on Tue, 27 November 2012, 16:55:56
Please note that iONE is not currently one of our manufacturing partners.
The part in bold is really the only thing worrying me.
Also, I understand that there might be contract fluff preventing you from saying who does make them, but the fact that iOne doesn't make them doesn't mean the secret company is any better. Or it could be way better.
Just pointing it out, I can't really comment on Das in general as I've never owned one.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 27 November 2012, 17:13:01
Welcome to Geekhack!

Thank you for joining to clarify that.  It is great when vendors interact with the enthusiast community like that.

Hopefully you will stay around for a while :)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Tue, 27 November 2012, 17:18:43
I'm not a brand guy myself.  I'll buy from whichever manufacturer gets the job done reliably.  I review for a website and would happily tear-down a new das for science provided I didn't have to buy one of the new models.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: davkol on Tue, 27 November 2012, 17:20:59
So Das are moving from Costar (apparently the best big OEM at the moment) to some unknown manufacturer in mainland China, and we're supposed to believe that quality will stay untouched. I won't believe until someone can actually prove it. If the OEM isn't iOne, it's not so bad, but again: until someone can confirm quality stays untouched, I will stay away from Das Keyboard. Oh wait... I stay away from Das Keyboard anyway because of hype/marketing BS.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 27 November 2012, 18:45:12
Quote
Oh wait... I stay away from Das Keyboard anyway because of hype/marketing BS.

I wonder if Filco is consider low key because we don't understand Japanese LOL.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Vintage on Tue, 27 November 2012, 18:58:10
Quote
Oh wait... I stay away from Das Keyboard anyway because of hype/marketing BS.

I wonder if Filco is consider low key because we don't understand Japanese LOL.
Well, that, and the fact that the keyboards themselves are very "no frills" by design.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 27 November 2012, 21:26:49
I love how everyone's freaking out about "oh it's no more Costar who is good but at least it's not iOne who is bad."
Believe me, iOne is far from the worst OEM in China. And there are a lot who overpromise to customers and cheerfully underdeliver because they can get away with it. (Nevermind that Costar actually isn't even close to good.)
Besides, take it with a grain of salt - I've seen their marketing deny that Costar is the OEM and then admit it in the same day.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Harlequin on Tue, 27 November 2012, 21:41:25
i was never a fan of Das. Really dislike the shiny body that gets finger prints easily.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 28 November 2012, 00:25:24
i was never a fan of Das. Really dislike the shiny body that gets finger prints easily.

It used to not bother me until I tried a Filco, then I realize yeah Filco is a lot easier to maintain LOL.  Especially since I have the beige Filco which is actually harder to see dust compare to the black Filco.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Wed, 28 November 2012, 14:28:04
well my UK layout model S just arrived....says made in Taiwan on the bottom of it
big improvement from the playdoh HP came with a job lot of PC's thing I have at work
seems nicer on my fingers than the mac chicklet board thats currently attached to my home machine to

...what do i know though...not used a proper mechanical board since the SGI boards on the machines at uni 13 years ago
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2012, 00:10:02
lol if it says made in Taiwan then you're safe.

Though I guess since we don't know what's the new vendor yet, has anyone rip open a new Das yet in the name of keyboard science?  I wonder if they used the same vendor as CM Storm TK or Logitech G710+ since there is no solid proof on which vendor they are yet.

Mmmmmm really curious which mystery place this is lol.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: davkol on Thu, 29 November 2012, 03:43:32
Do they already sell the Das with multimedia keys. That one was supposed to be made by someone else. However, I haven't seen it at their website.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2012, 11:17:55
It's already in their regular lineup.  If you buy any normal Das Keybard with labels it will have the media key come with it.  I don't think they fixed the pictures yet but if you go to store and buy them then you'll see it's different.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: davkol on Thu, 29 November 2012, 12:35:31
Well, reviews at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Das-Keyboard-Professional-Mechanical-DASK3MKPROSIL/product-reviews/B008PFDUW2/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending) appear to be quite negative. The keyboard is supposedly lighter, has sticky spacebar and stabilized keys in general... There're also mentioned redesigned keys on the first row.

New Das Keyboard seems inferior to the older generation, after all.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Thu, 29 November 2012, 12:57:42
I should be having a review sample coming in the next month.  Expect internals and a comparison to the last costar gen model.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2012, 13:47:23
I should be having a review sample coming in the next month.  Expect internals and a comparison to the last costar gen model.

Sweet then we'll actually have proof instead of speculation  :D
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Playtrumpet on Thu, 29 November 2012, 15:22:14
Will the time come when we have to start putting "Das Keyboard - Pre-iOne" in our signatures?
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 29 November 2012, 16:51:04
From This Amazon Review (http://www.amazon.com/review/R28YBRK46TVIX1/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R28YBRK46TVIX1):
Quote
Now for my biggest problem with it is that the lettering of the keys darkens/discolors way too easily. I wonder if anyone at Das Keyboard actually tested playing FPS games with this keyboard

Uh, yeah. Do you know which ODM's been having that specific issue across their entire line? Here's a hint. Begins with "C" and ends in "ostar." Or begins with "iOne" and ends in misery. So my skepticism toward claims it's "not Costar" and "not iOne" would appear to be justified. I have a suspicion when Binge takes his apart, he's going to find Costar, but we'll see. I do especially love how they used a pre-production render of a Mk2 instead of an actual photograph of the keyboard though. That's always a positive sign, right?

As for the rest? Remember, the ODM builds to the OEM's requirements. Costar is an ODM (Original DESIGN Manufacturer) and Das is an OEM (Original "Equipment" Manufacturer.) The only way the quality declines this much is if the OEM, in this case Das, either specifies lower QC/QA threshold or the ODM is taking the OEM for a ride.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: davkol on Thu, 29 November 2012, 18:37:38
As for the rest? Remember, the ODM builds to the OEM's requirements. Costar is an ODM (Original DESIGN Manufacturer) and Das is an OEM (Original "Equipment" Manufacturer.) The only way the quality declines this much is if the OEM, in this case Das, either specifies lower QC/QA threshold or the ODM is taking the OEM for a ride.
Well, that would mean their PR department is lying. Much better. Not surprising though, from their website:
Quote
German-engineered mechanical key switches: Das Keyboard compares to the legendary IBM Model M. Its best-in-class mechanical gold-plated key switches provide a tactile click that makes typing a pure joy.
Unless they use less-mainstream definition of "compares" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_theory#Partially_ordered_sets).
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 29 November 2012, 20:56:58
Well, that would mean their PR department is lying. Much better. Not surprising though, from their website:
Quote
German-engineered mechanical key switches: Das Keyboard compares to the legendary IBM Model M. Its best-in-class mechanical gold-plated key switches provide a tactile click that makes typing a pure joy.
Unless they use less-mainstream definition of "compares" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_theory#Partially_ordered_sets).

I don't know that I'd go that far yet; mostly I've seen a lot of "have no clue what's correct or accurate" resulting in a lot of conflicting answers. It certainly would NOT be the first PR/marketing department doing that by any stretch of the imagination, and it's especially rife with design houses because their product involvement is usually limited to aesthetics. Though frankly this looks like they're moving the same way Razer and OCZ did - get people hooked with an initial release that's solid, ramp the marketing hype to 11 so anyone pointing out flaws will get shouted down, then slash quality knowing there's an army of people who'd buy a literal dog turd from them just because of the name.

But hmm.. maybe they're basing that comparison on the fact that both are in a keyboard and both have springs.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2012, 21:05:20
I wonder if Das Keyboard uses the same manufactures as CM Storm TK and Logitech G710+ if it's not Costar and not iOne.

Refer to this post that I made as to why:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37861.0

Though I really hope not, because based on the user reviews I've read on amazon, the new Das definitely don't compare up to the old Das  :(
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Thu, 29 November 2012, 23:24:59
Uh, yeah. Do you know which ODM's been having that specific issue across their entire line? Here's a hint. Begins with "C" and ends in "ostar." Or begins with "iOne" and ends in misery. So my skepticism toward claims it's "not Costar" and "not iOne" would appear to be justified. I have a suspicion when Binge takes his apart, he's going to find Costar, but we'll see. I do especially love how they used a pre-production render of a Mk2 instead of an actual photograph of the keyboard though. That's always a positive sign, right?

As for the rest? Remember, the ODM builds to the OEM's requirements. Costar is an ODM (Original DESIGN Manufacturer) and Das is an OEM (Original "Equipment" Manufacturer.) The only way the quality declines this much is if the OEM, in this case Das, either specifies lower QC/QA threshold or the ODM is taking the OEM for a ride.
Every single white on black board that is not clear coated has this issue. They range from Cherry lasered POMs to lasered Filcos, to whatever iOne conjures up. I think this is the squeaky wheel QC. OEM just use whatever looks acceptable when new, then deal with the problems as it comes. Most people just admit defeat. The people inquiring about it will just get a no. They just have to grease the squeaky wheel when they make a racket. It is the cheapest way.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2012, 23:42:11
Yupe sorta why I got a beige ninja (side printed) board and also purchasing dye sub PBT keycaps  :P

Though this is probably over compensating LOLLLL
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 30 November 2012, 03:55:17
The symptoms are rather specific, and line up 100% with problems reported on well, honestly, damn near every CST-104 variant on the market right now. It's not just "dirt build up" - it's actual wearing of the material, which is so poorly made, it almost immediately turns gray. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've talked to OEMs who are furious with Costar because of it. The problem is much, much worse than the reviews would indicate, it's a known defect, and Costar knows its been going on for a long time now.
And I mean really, do you honestly think people here would not be up in arms if Filco keycaps looked completely trashed in a matter of weeks? Or any white on blacks? Frankly, I've dealt with plenty - never seen it before. Slight discoloration, sure, but I have damn fine color vision so I notice the slightest shift. Certainly not gray though - and definitely not in a matter of weeks with light to moderate use.

And doesn't mean it's Costar. Doesn't mean it's iOne. Could be they switched plastics suppliers and they're getting screwed. Could be they cut corners to meet demand. Could be someone else entirely. I'm genuinely curious to see the problematic keycaps as well as what Binge finds when he takes his apart.

I've got a Costar OEM'd set showing the full range of the excessive wear badness around here somewhere. If we can get some shots of the problematic Das, would be good to compare.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: cooklaw2 on Thu, 06 December 2012, 10:59:46
I should be having a review sample coming in the next month.  Expect internals and a comparison to the last costar gen model.

Sweet then we'll actually have proof instead of speculation  :D
Looking forward to the comparison.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 06 December 2012, 12:48:52
I think this is probably why Filco keyboards are pad printed.  So they can avoid the whole "greying" issue.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Tue, 11 December 2012, 07:13:13
well my replacement das came back, this one from kustompc's December 6th batch
its still a Taiwan model, so it seems like theres still a reasonable stock in the supply chain

has to be said that when i tweeted that i had a duff number 4, das did contact me and offer to help resolve the issue which was pretty nice....doubt you'd get many more manufactures doing that when you buy from a third party
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Tue, 11 December 2012, 08:46:36
I think this is probably why Filco keyboards are pad printed.  So they can avoid the whole "greying" issue.
They're lasered now. Lasering getting discolored is less of a problem if they use coating on the caps. Since the coat will soak into the porous parts of the legend, preventing hand gunk soaking into the legend.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Tue, 11 December 2012, 13:27:46
KBtalking Pro uses coated, laser etched, caps.  They are by far my favorite OEM caps.

UPDATE on the review:  Received the Das board, taking tear-down pictures tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 11 December 2012, 13:45:52
KBtalking Pro uses coated, laser etched, caps.  They are by far my favorite OEM caps.

UPDATE on the review:  Received the Das board, taking tear-down pictures tomorrow evening.

Ohhhhhhhh can't wait to see it  :D
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Tue, 11 December 2012, 14:52:17
KBtalking Pro uses coated, laser etched, caps.  They are by far my favorite OEM caps.
Not necessarily. There were a batch of lower cost ones with just uncoated laser foamed keys. The regular visible legend ones are UV coated laser foamed caps. Then of course, there are those laser engraved caps like yours.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Wed, 12 December 2012, 22:08:25
Alright kids this is about all I can reveal before the entire review of the keyboard.  Anyone know where I can get a replacement Das case??

New Das
[attach=1]

Old Das
[attach=2]
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Lu_e on Thu, 13 December 2012, 13:13:59
  Anyone know where I can get a replacement Das case??

uh oh, spaghetti o's :/

A moment of silence for Binge's sacrifices for the community...
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 13 December 2012, 13:37:55
Wow, sloppy as hell on the soldering on the new Das.. the part number doesn't match to anything I'm familiar with. Part number indicates it's an off the shelf part though - one from 2010, likely 2nd revision. Can you get us some photos of the controller, Binge?
That particular soldering style though... almost nobody out there who still practices pin-bend. Narrows it down tremendously.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 13 December 2012, 16:40:43
Is that RoHS compliant? The solder looks too shiny to be lead-free solder.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Thu, 13 December 2012, 16:48:36
last one.  The rest have to be saved for the review.

[attach=1]

Is that RoHS compliant? The solder looks too shiny to be lead-free solder.

There is most definitely a RoHS sticker on the board.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Thu, 13 December 2012, 16:52:35
The only thing I can find that could point to the manufacturer is http://www.tradezz.com/buy_2651537_beautiful-garden-speaker.htm (http://www.tradezz.com/buy_2651537_beautiful-garden-speaker.htm) that having the HY-D4 on it.
Either there are lots of Huayuan companies in china or they are just very cagey about what they make....so far I've seen them called specialist electrical tape, RFID and office equipment manufacturers

they other possibility is that HY-D is identifying it as made in Huayuan and the 4 is the plant number

...still probably grasping at straws


...the controller board seems to have been printed quite a while ago too...wonder if they've been using them for a while and shipping parts made by them to taiwan to be assembled....
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 13 December 2012, 17:30:58
Actually, we can get some partial ID from that photo. Thanks Binge! (And I totally hear you on keeping photos in reserve.)

That NEC part there is the USB hub and microcontroller likely. And it's a damn OLD part - or a forgery. Because the NEC Electronics division was rolled into Renesas. NEC Electronics no longer produces microcontrollers of any flavor. I can't make out the markings on it, but it's definitely not a SuperH. Too low a pincount - 48 pin + USB in Renesas livery would definitely fit RX200 family. Which should be in Renesas livery somewhat like this meh quality photo (http://www.msc-toolguide.com/renesas/microcontroller-series/rx200/renesas-prototyping-board-for-rx210.html). But as I said, it could also be an old part - especially given the indicated age of 2010 - that they're still working through stock on.

EDIT: Oh hells, look at the new PCB... look at all the ripples and ridges on the material. Holy crap. That looks straight out of the 1970's.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 13 December 2012, 19:42:30
lol I'm not too pro on the whole PCB stuff.

Though today I went by my local Canada Computers and they had the new Das on shelf for my to play with.  Out of the ~5 minutes that I was playing with.  I didn't notice anything physically wrong with it except that some key are stiffer than others.  It happens in quite a few region and it's pretty noticeable.  Another obvious difference I guess it's that the function, window, and option keys are 1x1.

It's not really bad but it's like you can tell something's off about it I can't explain.

lol can't wait for your full side by side review  :)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 13 December 2012, 23:06:44
So taking a closer look at that PCB we can determine two facts:
1) It is a much lower quality PCB overall than the Costar manufactured PCBs. The material quality is visibly lower as indicated by the significant ripples in the material and marring evident at the lower edge. This is, no surprise, common on low quality Chinese manufactured PCBs.
2) The overall component quality is significantly lower than the CST-104 re-case based on numerous independent reviews so far, and the other indications - specifically the visibly low-quality PCB, which is obviously just like the CST-104, a re-case based on the production date of 2010.

So what keyboard do we know that has 1x1 Windows keys, uses Cherry MX switches, and comes from China with a well established reputation as a low quality part? And also is advertised as being available for private labeling and contract manufacturing the same as the CST-104? (Oh, and would warrant using engineering mockups from a 2nd Generation Costar rather than actual product photos.)

Well, here's my number one contender: the one that Das Keyboard insists it isn't. (http://www.ione-usa.com/ione-scorpius-m10plus-professional-mechanical-keyboard.html) It's not like all Windows keys being 1x1 is even remotely common. I mean seriously - do you know how few there are? Here's one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823166109) and another (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823330017) and I guess kinda this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823700027). And wouldn't you know it, they're all iOne.
EDIT: Mind, that's my opinion as to who's making it. Not stating it as fact, just what seems apparent. Not sure if these Newegg photos are accurate (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823830007&Tpk=DASK3MKPROCLI) but that layout is really distinct and uncommon.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: wetto on Fri, 14 December 2012, 00:00:48
Can someone get the photos of the stabilizers? This could help a lot, I think..
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 14 December 2012, 00:30:31
Can someone get the photos of the stabilizers? This could help a lot, I think..

If that's a photo of the spacebar area, there's no stabilizer. But no idea. Presumably Binge will have photos of the stabilizers in his review, so we'll have to be a bit patient there.
Though... ohai Chinese board with that exact 1x1 + 1x1 layout I haven't found anywhere else at all yet. (http://www.johndiew.com/2012/04/plum-mx104m/) Specifications only barely match, but given the controller's cabled, that's rather easy to fix...
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Fri, 14 December 2012, 07:06:28
The interesting thing about the controller is not that it has an NEC chip on it, they could have been mass produced and stored, they're probably a generic part.
The thing that caught my eye was the printed date of January 11th 2011.
PCB's are very application specific, having such an old one seems to indicate that either, das are buying in job lots used by a load of other people too or the manufacturer has been used by das for quite a while.

as for the ripples on the board....its a bit perplexing...it could be that the lacquer they put on it was blown dry not baked, as its not visible in the traces on the PCB, it seems to be more of a finishing issue
I'm not saying that its ok though, if its not been finished well, you do have to wonder what else was done to the same standard

...I do like all this scooby gang stuff though :D
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Fri, 14 December 2012, 07:34:02
EDIT: Mind, that's my opinion as to who's making it. Not stating it as fact, just what seems apparent. Not sure if these Newegg photos are accurate (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823830007&Tpk=DASK3MKPROCLI) but that layout is really distinct and uncommon.
I think it is a Solidyear. Using Taiwanese romanization rule, their name could be written as HY.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: linuxid10t on Fri, 14 December 2012, 07:54:05
EDIT: Mind, that's my opinion as to who's making it. Not stating it as fact, just what seems apparent. Not sure if these Newegg photos are accurate (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823830007&Tpk=DASK3MKPROCLI) but that layout is really distinct and uncommon.
I think it is a Solidyear. Using Taiwanese romanization rule, their name could be written as HY.

Just looked at some of their other keyboards and I think you are right.  Anyway, definitely NOT iOne :D
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: wetto on Fri, 14 December 2012, 09:16:59
LOL, this SolidYear keyboard looks a damn lot like the Thermaltake Meka:

(http://www.solidyear.com.tw/dbase/upload-img/ACK2310-catalogue.jpg)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: linuxid10t on Fri, 14 December 2012, 10:37:24
LOL, this SolidYear keyboard looks a damn lot like the Thermaltake Meka:

Show Image
(http://www.solidyear.com.tw/dbase/upload-img/ACK2310-catalogue.jpg)


That is one ugly ass keyboard...
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Fri, 14 December 2012, 10:44:55
I know a few folks have been knocking the soldering, but TBH the shine and convex curves to a number of these solder joints mean that the one worker who soldered this board spent enough time to make sure the solder flowed well.  An impressive list of components shows denotes only quality components, but to have enough time spent to make a proper solder joint is an indicator of decent assembly.   It would be discouraging to have a talented assembly staff while skimping on materials.  Details about the PCB are odd like the frayed edges and ripples, but the traces are large which means there's more visible copper on these boards than the original.  Taking off the switches and plate is not outside of the realm of possibility, but then I would have undone most of the work I would want to inspect.

This is a tough egg, but so far their keyboard is fine.  My original Das keyboard space-bar squeeked and this one has none of that mess.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Fri, 14 December 2012, 11:04:06
I wasn't really paying attention at the PCB pix showing the switches when I looked at them before. PCB mount switches on a plate mount. That's interesting.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Fri, 14 December 2012, 11:10:43
I wonder if the solder is done by hand or robot
I do agree that it doesn't look teribad though

I can confirm that my new das has no squeaky keys either...the left shift went manky really fast though...and i can't seem to scrub it clean lol
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Human on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:08:42
I wasn't really paying attention at the PCB pix showing the switches when I looked at them before. PCB mount switches on a plate mount. That's interesting.
Actually, if you ever notice. Corsair K60/90 is also PCB mounted keyboard. They are using the PCB mount switches with 5pins/legs. But they are both mounted at the aluminum case at the same time.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 14 December 2012, 14:41:15
EDIT: Mind, that's my opinion as to who's making it. Not stating it as fact, just what seems apparent. Not sure if these Newegg photos are accurate (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823830007&Tpk=DASK3MKPROCLI) but that layout is really distinct and uncommon.
I think it is a Solidyear. Using Taiwanese romanization rule, their name could be written as HY.

Just looked at some of their other keyboards and I think you are right.  Anyway, definitely NOT iOne :D

As I mentioned, it's possible it's old NEC stock, yes.. but that would also rule out RX200. So it's extremely confusing to me. Renesas' website sucks though, so it may be a lower end QFP48 part. Any RX200 is guaranteed to be Renesas badged though, as the part was introduced after the split was completed. I'll do some digging around and see what the other possible parts are.
I also would agree the solder work is not bad. I wouldn't call it 'good' much less 'excellent,' but it's definitely not bad. It will hold up just fine, but that pin bend bothers me, and there's some solder slag on the PCB - which should never happen. All the quality soldering in the world won't help with a shoddy PCB though. The ripples I saw there I've only seen on low quality PCBs with poor bonding between layers. That's a serious problem for obvious reasons.

I disagree that Solidyear is more likely - the part numbers do not match their scheme. All Solidyear PNs are 3+4 Letter+Number scheme. e.g. it should be 'HYx-6004' not 'HY-6004.' Doesn't fit the numbering scheme either. They also do not have a stock PCB that maps even remotely near it. I would rate them very unlikely. So I wouldn't rule out iOne entirely yet. Again, iOne can modify existing designs to meet customer requirements. So that means that it could be a modified Scorpius. But again; I don't see any evidence saying explicitly that it's iOne. Just a collection of circumstantial that it's an iOne design.

Also, remember that Thermaltake Meka covers multiple keyboards. The G1 is literally a badged CST-104 "Sydney" reference. IIRC there's 5 different ODMs.

The cabled controller isn't entirely red herring, either. The CST104 can be cabled instead of push-mount, but that would be a new PN. But it's also uncommon as hell these days - so who do we know that uses cabled controllers? I can't say I know anyone these days.

EDIT:
Digging into things a bit, it hit me that being 48TQFP, it could be a part I'm very familiar with - the NEC uPD72010 USB 2.0 Controller. Every uPD72nnn is NEC badged or no mfg badge, even current. This is acurrent uPD72010 photo (http://media.digikey.com/Photos/NEC%20Photos/UPD720114GA-YEU-A.JPG) and here's the datasheet (http://documentation.renesas.com/doc/DocumentServer/S17462EJ6V0DS00.pdf) (Warning: PDF). However, that would mean it's not the microcontroller itself - the D72nnn's strictly a hub.
The other possibility might be that it's a M66291GP which is a complete microcontroller. No photo for this one, but it's actually a blended NEC/Renesas/Hitachi part which is currently made (http://am.renesas.com/products/soc/usb_assp/product/m66291/index.jsp) and has a datasheet here (http://documentation.renesas.com/doc/products/assp/rej03f0125_m66291ds.pdf). (Warning: PDF)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Sat, 15 December 2012, 16:43:54
This is a tough egg, but so far their keyboard is fine.  My original Das keyboard space-bar squeeked and this one has none of that mess.

So would you say quality is comparable to the original Das?  Also are you in the process of making a full review?
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: macguy80 on Sat, 22 December 2012, 13:40:10
Quote
So would you say quality is comparable to the original Das?  Also are you in the process of making a full review?

Count me as interested, too. I need a Cherry Brown in my collection, and had been strongly considering the Das Silent, until I saw this thread. I'd just like to know if the new model with media keys is as good as its predecessor. :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Sat, 22 December 2012, 20:25:01
Quote
So would you say quality is comparable to the original Das?  Also are you in the process of making a full review?

Count me as interested, too. I need a Cherry Brown in my collection, and had been strongly considering the Das Silent, until I saw this thread. I'd just like to know if the new model with media keys is as good as its predecessor. :)

Thanks!

For the time being I'd just get a Das Keyboard Ultimate Silent.  It is still Costar at the moment.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: macguy80 on Sat, 22 December 2012, 21:20:17
I would in a heartbeat if I considered myself that great a typist. If I get one, I want to be able to type on it.  ;D For now, I still need printed keycaps. I'll either wait for the consensus. to come in, or get another brand. If I could spare the $$$, I'd get a Filco, though I can't really tell which of their models HAVE browns in them. I think my next choice will either be a CoolerMaster or a Leopold. I just need a standard 104-key layout, whichever one I get. I was hoping it'd be a Das though.

Quote
For the time being I'd just get a Das Keyboard Ultimate Silent.  It is still Costar at the moment.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Sat, 22 December 2012, 23:07:19
I would in a heartbeat if I considered myself that great a typist. If I get one, I want to be able to type on it.  ;D For now, I still need printed keycaps. I'll either wait for the consensus. to come in, or get another brand. If I could spare the $$$, I'd get a Filco, though I can't really tell which of their models HAVE browns in them. I think my next choice will either be a CoolerMaster or a Leopold. I just need a standard 104-key layout, whichever one I get. I was hoping it'd be a Das though.

I'd say if you can afford it, definitely get a Filco.

Click Action = MX Blue
Tactile Action = MX Brown
Soft Linear Action = MX Red
Linear Action = MX Black

As for CM Storm, Quick Fire Rapid is your best bet but it's not 104 key.  But if you were to get Quick Fire Pro (which is 104 key) I'd actually suggest you get Rosewill instead.

I don't recommend Leopold because their 104 key model is too ugly and their spacebar stem doesn't fit any other spacebars.  So it's pain in the butt if you want to replace keycap set one day.

So I say go Filco or Rosewill or Das Ultimate.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: macguy80 on Sun, 23 December 2012, 02:05:31
Quote
I'd say if you can afford it, definitely get a Filco.

Click Action = MX Blue
Tactile Action = MX Brown
Soft Linear Action = MX Red
Linear Action = MX Black

As for CM Storm, Quick Fire Rapid is your best bet but it's not 104 key.  But if you were to get Quick Fire Pro (which is 104 key) I'd actually suggest you get Rosewill instead.

I don't recommend Leopold because their 104 key model is too ugly and their spacebar stem doesn't fit any other spacebars.  So it's pain in the butt if you want to replace keycap set one day.

So I say go Filco or Rosewill or Das Ultimate.

Thanks for deciphering the Filco code! I'll definitely keep your advice in mind when it comes time to buy a Cherry board. I'm going to get the QuietPro first though :)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: HarryPalms on Sun, 23 December 2012, 11:35:03
I would in a heartbeat if I considered myself that great a typist. If I get one, I want to be able to type on it.  ;D For now, I still need printed keycaps. I'll either wait for the consensus. to come in, or get another brand. If I could spare the $$$, I'd get a Filco, though I can't really tell which of their models HAVE browns in them. I think my next choice will either be a CoolerMaster or a Leopold. I just need a standard 104-key layout, whichever one I get. I was hoping it'd be a Das though.

I'd say if you can afford it, definitely get a Filco.

Click Action = MX Blue
Tactile Action = MX Brown
Soft Linear Action = MX Red
Linear Action = MX Black

As for CM Storm, Quick Fire Rapid is your best bet but it's not 104 key.  But if you were to get Quick Fire Pro (which is 104 key) I'd actually suggest you get Rosewill instead.

I don't recommend Leopold because their 104 key model is too ugly and their spacebar stem doesn't fit any other spacebars.  So it's pain in the butt if you want to replace keycap set one day.

So I say go Filco or Rosewill or Das Ultimate.

Filco is best.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: linuxid10t on Tue, 25 December 2012, 10:10:53
Well, got a new Das Keyboard this morning for Christmas and I can say it is pretty solidly built.  I think this manufacturer change is WAYYYYYYY overhyped.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: macguy80 on Tue, 25 December 2012, 13:47:52
Well, got a new Das Keyboard this morning for Christmas and I can say it is pretty solidly built.  I think this manufacturer change is WAYYYYYYY overhyped.

Thanks! I appreciate the feedback :) Please keep us posted as you get to know it! :) Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: linuxid10t on Tue, 25 December 2012, 16:37:21
Well, got a new Das Keyboard this morning for Christmas and I can say it is pretty solidly built.  I think this manufacturer change is WAYYYYYYY overhyped.

Thanks! I appreciate the feedback :) Please keep us posted as you get to know it! :) Merry Christmas!

Thanks.  Anyway, the worst I could say about the build quality is that it has a LITTLE bit of flex, but it is also a hell of a long thin keyboard.  That being said, the keycaps feel great and feel of better quality than those of my QFR by a smidge.  Everything is also centered very well.  On long keys (shift) they are less wobbly than the QFR.  Lastly the workmanship on the plastic body is good.  There are no ugly seams (looks at Unicomp intently.)  Personally, I don't give half a **** what the PCB LOOKS like as long as it functions the way it should and won't fail.  Anyway, I am very happy with my present and would recommend this keyboard for anyone in the market looking for a more understated keyboard.

PS:  This thing is CRAZY shiny, you can see your face in it.  Pictures do it no justice.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Vintage on Tue, 25 December 2012, 17:05:43
LOL, this SolidYear keyboard looks a damn lot like the Thermaltake Meka:

Show Image
(http://www.solidyear.com.tw/dbase/upload-img/ACK2310-catalogue.jpg)


That is one ugly ass keyboard...

Ughhh that layout makes me cry :eek:

That's one of the dumbest compact layouts i've see ISO enter key there is.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: wetto on Tue, 25 December 2012, 19:04:41
LOL, this SolidYear keyboard looks a damn lot like the Thermaltake Meka:

Show Image
(http://www.solidyear.com.tw/dbase/upload-img/ACK2310-catalogue.jpg)


That is one ugly ass keyboard...

Ughhh that layout makes me cry :eek:

That's one of the dumbest compact layouts i've see ISO enter key there is.

Jeez guys, you all do know that ISO Enter Key is diffent from that, aye? Also, the worst thing afterall isn't the damn Enter key, but how small the Backspace key actually is! Also, try to find the / and ? key.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: davkol on Wed, 26 December 2012, 15:41:41
Backspace actually isn't much of an issue (ummm, well... I use Colemak), but the "slash" key placement is horrible. The rest of the layout isn't that bad — it's not as good as on QF TK though.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 26 December 2012, 16:43:38
Who uses forward slash?
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Wed, 26 December 2012, 16:44:25
If you ever work with printer servers... you've used forward slash.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: davkol on Wed, 26 December 2012, 16:46:56
Who uses forward slash?
Real men. You know... those, who use UNIX. ^_~
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 26 December 2012, 16:50:58
haha, okay.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: daerid on Thu, 27 December 2012, 04:08:31
Pretty much anybody on the internet uses a forward slash. So... ya know... like, everybody.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Thu, 27 December 2012, 08:55:25
Who uses forward slash?

....yeh and for that matter who uses its shifted value ?  :p
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 27 December 2012, 21:41:41
Everyone in this thread uses /.

And ? for that matter.

Maybe/maybe not?
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 28 December 2012, 22:10:05
http://blah.blah.blah/~fred/
Totally unimportant key.
/opt/p4r/siberia/9/2/1/r
Completely useless.
net time /DOMAIN:contoso.com
Nobody would ever bother using that key. Not ever.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 13:25:39
I just got a das pro for work, made in china. It feels incredibly cheap compared to my das ultimate at home (made in taiwan). I don't know if the keycaps are thinner or what, but I must say I am quite disappointed with it.

So disappointed. :(
Enough so that I've written a product review on amazon. This keyboard is just not worth the price. The Ultimate was.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Fri, 04 January 2013, 13:51:59
I just got a das pro for work, made in china. It feels incredibly cheap compared to my das ultimate at home (made in taiwan). I don't know if the keycaps are thinner or what, but I must say I am quite disappointed with it.

So disappointed. :(
Enough so that I've written a product review on amazon. This keyboard is just not worth the price. The Ultimate was.

I have to call bullsh!t on this... I have a 2008 pro and a new pro.  I'm doing a comparative review.  They have identical crappy OEM keycaps.
Take the caps off and compare them.  They are the same sh!t ABS plastic with the same thickness and the same OEM profile.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:19:26
Maybe I just got a dud. I feel like with this one the keys are more rattly or i can press them down further before the actuation point. I don't have the two next to each other, but this definitely does not feel the same. It feels a lot more mushy. Like the switches have been broken in already or something. It could just be placebo. I'll have to bring my Ultimate to work and do a side-by-side comparison.

Also to note, I'm comparing a new Pro to a new Ultimate. Are you comparing a well used 2008 pro to a new pro? Is there any difference between the pro keys and the ultimate keys other than the lettering?

Also I'm using the ones with the cherry browns. Are you comparing blues or browns?

Are the keys profiles different as well? Or the shape of the case? The up arrow key is practically flush with the case. I don't remember it feeling this way with the Ultimate (but again, i'll need to check when I get home).
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:30:16
I have a cherry brown 2008 pro (costar) and a cherry blue pro 2012 (noname OEM).  The only difference is the sourced controller, feet, and the PCB.  Plastics are the same... keycaps are the same... switches feel like the switches they are.  PCB looks noticeably lower quality, more like the PCB you'd find in a television, and the feet are rounded.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:13:36
One of the things I'm responding to is that if I tap lightly on either side of the backspace or enter keys, it rattles. I don't believe my Ultimate does that, but again, I'll have to bring this keyboard home tonight and test them side-by-side.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:17:48
One of the things I'm responding to is that if I tap lightly on either side of the backspace or enter keys, it rattles. I don't believe my Ultimate does that, but again, I'll have to bring this keyboard home tonight and test them side-by-side.

Take a look at the stabilizers to make sure they're installed correctly.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 16:25:52
One of the things I'm responding to is that if I tap lightly on either side of the backspace or enter keys, it rattles. I don't believe my Ultimate does that, but again, I'll have to bring this keyboard home tonight and test them side-by-side.

Take a look at the stabilizers to make sure they're installed correctly.
Ah, good call. I took a look and the stabilizer clips are not actually stably affixed to the plate / keyboard. So I guess that's where the rattling is coming from. Any idea how to fix that?
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Fri, 04 January 2013, 17:46:00
they should just press in.  If they don't then they are broken and you need new ones.  WASD sells replacements and plenty of people will sell/send you some from round the forums.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 04 January 2013, 19:02:03
One of the things I'm responding to is that if I tap lightly on either side of the backspace or enter keys, it rattles. I don't believe my Ultimate does that, but again, I'll have to bring this keyboard home tonight and test them side-by-side.

Take a look at the stabilizers to make sure they're installed correctly.
Ah, good call. I took a look and the stabilizer clips are not actually stably affixed to the plate / keyboard. So I guess that's where the rattling is coming from. Any idea how to fix that?

Demand RMA, since there's no excuse whatsoever for a $130+ keyboard having improperly installed or broken stabilizers. That kind of thing should never make it past QC ever.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: ValerieV on Fri, 04 January 2013, 19:12:03
I am an idiot was does RMA stand for? Thanks.  :confused:
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 04 January 2013, 19:42:57
Return Materials Authorization.  Acquiring one from the vendor or manufacturer is typically the first step in getting a faulty piece of equipment replaced under warranty.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 19:53:34
Yeah I just don't want to be stuck with my rubber dome keyboard in the meantime...
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 20:28:28
Got home and tested them side by side. I think me feeling like the switches under the letters felt more mushy was placebo caused by all the other issues. The stabilizer clips (the part that the stabilizer bar hinges in to, not the part on the key cap) is lose on basically every key (most noticeably on the backspace). The scroll lock key has a chip in it. The case is bubbled up directly in front of the forward arrow key (I tried switching the key caps to ensure the profile was in fact the same which made me realize the case was flawed) which makes it feel very shallow. Plus, I hate the layout of the modifiers. I keep missing when I try to hit the Alt key.

So all in all, with my sample size of 1, I'd say the build quality is much worse. I'm going to have to return this.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 04 January 2013, 20:46:52
lol so we're at 1:1 right now.  Need a third sampler to settle this  :P
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Sat, 05 January 2013, 02:31:23
Got home and tested them side by side. I think me feeling like the switches under the letters felt more mushy was placebo caused by all the other issues. The stabilizer clips (the part that the stabilizer bar hinges in to, not the part on the key cap) is lose on basically every key (most noticeably on the backspace). The scroll lock key has a chip in it. The case is bubbled up directly in front of the forward arrow key (I tried switching the key caps to ensure the profile was in fact the same which made me realize the case was flawed) which makes it feel very shallow. Plus, I hate the layout of the modifiers. I keep missing when I try to hit the Alt key.

So all in all, with my sample size of 1, I'd say the build quality is much worse. I'm going to have to return this.


That's a good idea.  sounds like this one was used and abused before you got it.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Sun, 06 January 2013, 09:45:05
i have to say that the keys go off colour very quickly though
my left control and shift keys are now grey not white

i've been fairly hammering this thing at work, can't say i've notice any rattling with it
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Sun, 06 January 2013, 12:40:50
i have to say that the keys go off colour very quickly though
my left control and shift keys are now grey not white

i've been fairly hammering this thing at work, can't say i've notice any rattling with it
I must have got a lemon then. Not going to try my luck again with it though since I don't actually like the shifted spacebar/alt keys in the layout. Really throws off my ability to hit shortcut keys while coding. I'm sure I could get used to it, but keeping the layout of my home and work keyboards the same seems worthwhile.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: corm on Mon, 07 January 2013, 12:52:38
I recently got the media key version (made in china) and was able to compare it to a friends costar (made in taiwan). Both were Profession Model S with brown switches.

There is definitely significant difference between the 2 keyboards. The quality of the new version is unsatisfactory.

I'll refer to the newer media key version as "china" and previous model "costar"

The differences noticed while comparing the two were:
-china model has a resonating sound when keys are pressed. Very noticeable and annoying.
-costar larger keys (such as shift, bs, enter) are more fluid/smooth than china version.
-in general the costar keyboard just felt better to type on.



Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: macguy80 on Mon, 07 January 2013, 13:05:28
I recently got the media key version (made in china) and was able to compare it to a friends costar (made in taiwan). Both were Profession Model S with brown switches.

There is definitely significant difference between the 2 keyboards. The quality of the new version is unsatisfactory.

I'll refer to the newer media key version as "china" and previous model "costar"

The differences noticed while comparing the two were:
-china model has a resonating sound when keys are pressed. Very noticeable and annoying.
-costar larger keys (such as shift, bs, enter) are more fluid/smooth than china version.
-in general the costar keyboard just felt better to type on.

For me, anyway, that settles it. Das is off my list. What a shame.

If I am one day in the market for a used Das, is it safe to say that I would get a Costar board as long as I get one that lacks a Fn key? Or were there earlier revs that were also subpar? (that might be harder to distinguish from a 2008 Costar board?)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Mon, 07 January 2013, 13:08:55
Resonating denotes a reverberation in the plate, and "stiff keys" can occur with any keyboard.

Definitely looks like these MIC keyboards have terrible quality control.  I wonder if they sent me a nice one.  I took mine apart before typing on it, so I may have put it back together better than the factory worker.  Taking these issues people are having into account with my review which will go live next week.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: macguy80 on Mon, 07 January 2013, 13:20:25
Resonating denotes a reverberation in the plate, and "stiff keys" can occur with any keyboard.

Definitely looks like these MIC keyboards have terrible quality control.  I wonder if they sent me a nice one.  I took mine apart before typing on it, so I may have put it back together better than the factory worker.  Taking these issues people are having into account with my review which will go live next week.

Fair points. I am physically disabled, and lack the dexterity to take apart and reassemble a keyboard (let alone be sure it is reassembled equal to or better than factory)

Whichever board I choose is going to have to be at its very best as soon as it leaves the factory. ;)

WASD is looking better and better.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Mon, 07 January 2013, 13:28:08
For me, anyway, that settles it. Das is off my list. What a shame.

If I am one day in the market for a used Das, is it safe to say that I would get a Costar board as long as I get one that lacks a Fn key? Or were there earlier revs that were also subpar? (that might be harder to distinguish from a 2008 Costar board?)
From what I've heard, that is true. The ones with the media keys are the first ones that sucked. :P
In fact, the Das Ultimate are still being built by Costar, and I am very happy with mine, so you could even get a new one if you don't need letters ony our keys (or if you intend to buy some new colored keycaps).
I'll be receiving my second one tomorrow so I'll let you know if the quality is up to par with my first, but I expect it will be.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Mon, 07 January 2013, 13:36:19
Resonating denotes a reverberation in the plate, and "stiff keys" can occur with any keyboard.

Definitely looks like these MIC keyboards have terrible quality control.  I wonder if they sent me a nice one.  I took mine apart before typing on it, so I may have put it back together better than the factory worker.  Taking these issues people are having into account with my review which will go live next week.

Fair points. I am physically disabled, and lack the dexterity to take apart and reassemble a keyboard (let alone be sure it is reassembled equal to or better than factory)

Whichever board I choose is going to have to be at its very best as soon as it leaves the factory. ;)

WASD is looking better and better.

I didn't mean to seem argumentative, and WASD is a very wise choice.  Das had their time in the sun.  My review is reflecting on their company negatively overall.

With your needs I would go with WASD or Coolermaster!  Both are reasonable prices and have exceptional build quality.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: macguy80 on Mon, 07 January 2013, 15:57:44

I didn't mean to seem argumentative, and WASD is a very wise choice.  Das had their time in the sun.  My review is reflecting on their company negatively overall.

With your needs I would go with WASD or Coolermaster!  Both are reasonable prices and have exceptional build quality.

I didn't take your reply as argumentative in the slightest. I just didn't think of the points that you raised :)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Mon, 07 January 2013, 16:08:50
I didn't mean to seem argumentative, and WASD is a very wise choice.  Das had their time in the sun.  My review is reflecting on their company negatively overall.

With your needs I would go with WASD or Coolermaster!  Both are reasonable prices and have exceptional build quality.

Totally agree with you, which is why I had a Das too.  They had their moment when it was the cheapest full size Costar board.  But with the whole new batch it just doesn't feel like it has the edge anymore.

WASD will be a bit expensive consider that you'll be forced to pay shipping, where cooler master can get picked up locally easily.

BUT at the same time I haven't heard anyone complain about their WASD keyboard at all.  So you'll be safe either way :)

Oh and thanks for the review guys, I have updated the original post for future members that are reading this.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Mon, 07 January 2013, 19:16:34
From what I've heard, that is true. The ones with the media keys are the first ones that sucked. :P
In fact, the Das Ultimate are still being built by Costar, and I am very happy with mine, so you could even get a new one if you don't need letters ony our keys (or if you intend to buy some new colored keycaps).
I'll be receiving my second one tomorrow so I'll let you know if the quality is up to par with my first, but I expect it will be.
I just got my second das ultimate and I am pleased. Feels just as solid as my first. I need to install some o-rings into the backspace, enter, and spacebar... but other than that... all good. This one doesn't even seem to be squeaking!
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: wetto on Tue, 08 January 2013, 19:26:52
From what I've heard, that is true. The ones with the media keys are the first ones that sucked. :P
In fact, the Das Ultimate are still being built by Costar, and I am very happy with mine, so you could even get a new one if you don't need letters ony our keys (or if you intend to buy some new colored keycaps).
I'll be receiving my second one tomorrow so I'll let you know if the quality is up to par with my first, but I expect it will be.
I just got my second das ultimate and I am pleased. Feels just as solid as my first. I need to install some o-rings into the backspace, enter, and spacebar... but other than that... all good. This one doesn't even seem to be squeaking!

The Das Ultimate seems to still be Costar made, so no changes there.

Only the Professional Model with Media Keys comes from a different OEM.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rek55 on Tue, 08 January 2013, 20:27:33
The Das Ultimate seems to still be Costar made, so no changes there.

Only the Professional Model with Media Keys comes from a different OEM.
Yup, exactly. I was just pointing out that it was just as awesome as my first to provide contrast with my experiences with the other OEM's keyboard and their (lack of) build quality.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Mon, 14 January 2013, 11:12:00
Review is up.  It basically praises what Das -was- able to accomplish in the past while criticizing the direction they took with their multimedia keyboard version.

http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?cat=&id=766&pagenumber=1

Quote
...In the past year a rising demand for mechanical keyboards has brought a fair bit of enticing competition to the United States, so as of this very fresh 2013 I feel Das could stand to take time focusing their efforts in providing their customers a solution which is as well-built as it is feature rich.

Gutshots and pictures a-plenty.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Lu_e on Mon, 14 January 2013, 12:45:46
Nice review, but no mention of the changed layout as well? The box even shows the more standardized 1.25x mod keys xD
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Mon, 14 January 2013, 14:40:20
Nice review, but no mention of the changed layout as well? The box even shows the more standardized 1.25x mod keys xD

*facepalm*  of all of the things... thanks for the kind words, and especially for that observation.  In the future I won't miss something that ridiculously obvious >.<  Shows just how much I pay attention to the modifiers.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Mon, 14 January 2013, 21:14:03
Nice review, but no mention of the changed layout as well? The box even shows the more standardized 1.25x mod keys xD

*facepalm*  of all of the things... thanks for the kind words, and especially for that observation.  In the future I won't miss something that ridiculously obvious >.<  Shows just how much I pay attention to the modifiers.

lol it's ok it's still a very nice detailed review though.  Lots and lots of pictures  :D  Though I wish you took pictures of the new stabilizers they used lol  :(
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: InAComaDial999 on Wed, 13 February 2013, 06:06:50
Kind of an old thread, I realize, but I happened to take some pics of the space bar stabilizers on my brand new Model S Professional with the media keys.  Pics here (http://imgur.com/a/itF61).

As you can see, they are Cherry stabilizers.  Long story short, my old Model S Professional that I bought in 2010 died on me, and DAS sent me a replacement.  I didn't like the feel of the space bar and decided to have a look to see if something was wrong.  Imagine my surprise when I saw what lurked under there.  From what I gather, the less crisp feel of the spacebar is normal with Cherry stabilizers.  Not really a fan of it, but other than that the keybord is OK, though I definitely preferred the original.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 13 February 2013, 09:44:42
Ahhhhhh this explains a lot.  I originally thought that they'd use the costar-like stabilizers found on the blackwidow.  But this makes more sense that it feels mushy because it's cherry stabilizer.

lol should ask them if they can send you a Das Ultimate instead (Costar).  Or sell it and buy a CM Storm XT when it comes out  :P
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: InAComaDial999 on Wed, 13 February 2013, 13:19:51
I bought a Rosewill RK-9000 right after the original Das died, because I couldn't go back to the generic rubber dome spare I had in the closet.  I was going to keep the RK as a spare, but I figure if I don't get used to this in the next few days I'll switch back and keep the Das as a spare.  The space bar thing is not as jarring as I previously thought, and it isn't interfering with my typing, so I may stick with it after all.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 13 February 2013, 14:40:50
I like Cherry Stabilizers, like on my Poker. Maybe you could switch out the stabilizers from your old Das.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:45:25
Ugh. They're unlinked stabilizers. NOBODY likes unlinked Cherrys on the spacebar. Not even me. There's two different types of Cherry stabilizers that I've encountered. The "A" type are unlinked; you know, where you're stabilizing a small key like backspace, where the X axis anchoring keeps it from walking. The "B" type are linked or what I usually call 'plate mount' or 'hybrid' stabilizers. There's a metal rod usually mounted to the plate which links the stabilizer action so they move in sync. (Not surprisingly, Wyse PCET is a great example of the "B" type.) On lighter keys especially, the linking rod is pretty damn critical to ensuring the feel is right. Instead Das has pretty blatantly cheaped out hardcore by using no link rod.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: Binge on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:13:33
the inside of my review Das did not look like that.... seriously worried for this company.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:17:35
I am seriously LOLing at rootwyrm now. That is on par with TP4's claim that you have to unsolder all the switches on the board to replace 1 switch.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:24:03
I am seriously LOLing at rootwyrm now. That is on par with TP4's claim that you have to unsolder all the switches on the board to replace 1 switch.

Oh, because you're a complete and utter moron?
See attachment. You can shut your mouth now, monosyllabic simpleton. And kindly don't open it again.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:32:43
That's a PCB mounted stabilizer. It is still linked.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:33:43
Lovely board chow there.

I have never seen this sort before. Where does that stabilizer go, and/or come up topside again?
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 13 February 2013, 17:26:17
Lovely board chow there.

I have never seen this sort before. Where does that stabilizer go, and/or come up topside again?

Innit though? Also love the yellowing. That's one of my Wyse PCET's - a 1986. The stabilizer is mounted to the PCB using through-hole, and the rod itself is anchored to the plate below the spacebar switch itself - I believe this one is front-lip anchor style.
Edit: oh yeah, probably should note part of that chow is rust, too. Give you an idea of how rough that board is. Switches are just fine though, not surprisingly. Heavy MX Blacks.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: laffindude on Wed, 13 February 2013, 17:52:05
Dear rootwyrm, look closer at your supposedly "unlinked" stabilizers, and you'll find a stabilizer wire in there too.

I doubt that PCB mount stabilizer you pictured is mounted to the plate. It looks like it is just a PCB mount stabilizer mounted under a plate.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: cooklaw2 on Tue, 19 February 2013, 13:35:04
[quote author=macguy80 link=topic=35375.msg758403#msg758403 date=1357585528]
I recently got the media key version (made in china) and was able to compare it to a friends costar (made in taiwan). Both were Profession Model S with brown switches.

There is definitely significant difference between the 2 keyboards. The quality of the new version is unsatisfactory.

I'll refer to the newer media key version as "china" and previous model "costar"

The differences noticed while comparing the two were:
-china model has a resonating sound when keys are pressed. Very noticeable and annoying.
-costar larger keys (such as shift, bs, enter) are more fluid/smooth than china version.
-in general the costar keyboard just felt better to type on.
[/size][/size]

For me, anyway, that settles it. Das is off my list. What a shame.

If I am one day in the market for a used Das, is it safe to say that I would get a Costar board as long as I get one that lacks a Fn key? Or were there earlier revs that were also subpar? (that might be harder to distinguish from a 2008 Costar board?)
[/quote]

Canada Computers and Amazon.ca both still have the Co-star Professional.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: HybridCore on Tue, 19 February 2013, 20:24:42
No body believed me

Sounded pretty legit to me when I saw the post over at OCN.

It's sad to see them go. I would have been even more sad if they were making TKL boards. I love my TKL Filco.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Tue, 07 May 2013, 09:04:34
i've had to have my taiwanese das replaced for the 2nd time as another key died in under 3 months
i've now got one of the dreaded chinese models

the key clicks seem much hollower than the old one and i'm not a fan of the symmetrical bottom row
i keep hitting the fn key when i'm going for the windows / ctrl key but thats just something i'll get used to i suppose

what i'm really hoping for is a > 3 month usage without keys dieing on this one
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true *NEW UPDATE*
Post by: berserkfan on Tue, 07 May 2013, 13:23:49
One thing I never understand is how come people have such bad luck with keys dying on them.

I use keyboards for years (and I use them everyday as part of work and life) without any problems. In three decades, never had something die on me under two years.

Does this have anything to do with the usage pattern/ eg gamers hammer a lot on a few keys?

i've had to have my taiwanese das replaced for the 2nd time as another key died in under 3 months
i've now got one of the dreaded chinese models

the key clicks seem much hollower than the old one and i'm not a fan of the symmetrical bottom row
i keep hitting the fn key when i'm going for the windows / ctrl key but thats just something i'll get used to i suppose

what i'm really hoping for is a > 3 month usage without keys dieing on this one
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Wed, 08 May 2013, 10:09:21
i noticed the dead 4 on my first one because i use it a lot in starcraft
f8 died because i use it a lot at work for stepping through code

afaik, a cherry cap has ~50 million key press life, to get to that you would have to hit it 95 times a minute, 24 hours a day for a full year
admittedly you could get less or more than 50 mill, but you wouldn't expect < 3 months life out of any keyboard
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: TreeSc2 on Thu, 09 May 2013, 15:51:42
I have the das ultimate anyhow, so im set :D
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: littlenoises on Tue, 04 June 2013, 15:17:09
I've just signed up here after reading this thread because my Das seems to be a somewhat odd model.
I've got the media keys, but, interestingly no Windows-key on the left side, also the label clearly says "made in Taiwan"
Could it be that my keyboard was made shortly before the manufacturer switch or something like that? Maybe someone here with better knowledge can help me out?

Also, please excuse the scratches, it's been used quite a bit by now :)
(http://i.imgur.com/iX2C2vnl.jpg)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: chewyfruitloop on Wed, 05 June 2013, 07:06:24
well you seem to have a weird one there
afaik the media keys only came out in the last year
it looks like you have an old board with retro fitted keycaps...which seems to be the plausible reason for those keys
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: littlenoises on Wed, 05 June 2013, 11:56:53
That could probably be it, thanks for the input.
That's certainly weird, the Das was purchased in August 2010 from an authorized German reseller... but hey, having non-standard equipment always is nice :)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 05 June 2013, 16:29:28
If my memory served me right, I think they had a Costar made ones with volume control.....etc originally, then later on switch to without any secondary function, then finally when they switched OEM we get media edition (current one).

So I think you had the original batch one but good thing is that it's made by Costar I believe.


EDIT:  According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Keyboard it seems like you have the Professional edition.  Which had some minor hardware issue but then later on they fixed it and came out with Professional S edition.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: wetto on Wed, 05 June 2013, 22:27:22
Ughhhh... I threw up when I saw the new space bar and keycaps quality...

New:

(http://i.imgur.com/oJhQLo0h.jpg)

Old:

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5079/dsc02304tl.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8053/dsc02269sb.jpg)

Why Das Keyboard, why? I used to love you guys and now you've proved to me that your keyboards are now just as bad if now worse than a bloody Razer Blackwidow! WHY?!?!

I love my Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent soo much and I even fixed its biggest problem and even made it look badass... Why can't Metadot do things right?  :(

(http://imageshack.us/a/img515/7361/dsc03702uu.jpg)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 05 June 2013, 22:31:05
lol what the extra stem for?  Also I guess it's a bit more curved because of lens distortion from camera.


EDIT:  As for the gloss surface, I kind of like what Razer did with their 2013 edition.  The matte black finish feels quite nice actually, Das should've done that too  :P

[attach=1]

Source:  Custom PC Review
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: hrombaba on Sat, 14 September 2013, 13:17:13
Hi, I'm new here.

I'm going to order my first mechanical keyboard and I decided to order Das Keyboard. I was decided for Profesional S. I can type without looking to my keyboard, but sometimes I'm looking for some special character and don't know where exactly is. But after reading this I'm pretty sure that I'll order Ultimate version rather than Proffesional.

I'm interested if the Ultimate version is still made in Taiwan or not? It's been a while since last post in this thread and I don't know if there is anything new?

Thanx
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Mon, 16 September 2013, 21:30:52
Yeah I'm not too sure if they ran out of old stock on the Ultimate yet.  Overall geekhack people aren't too big on Das Keyboard in general so we don't get much update on it.

What switch are you looking for?  Because at the current moment it sounds like QuickFire Rapid/QuickFire XT or WASD V2 would be better options.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: davkol on Tue, 17 September 2013, 04:46:08
What switch are you looking for?  Because at the current moment it sounds like QuickFire Rapid/QuickFire XT or WASD V2 would be better options.

Yeah, but they are exactly available in Central Europe. In fact, only QFR is... with only linear switches though.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: hrombaba on Wed, 18 September 2013, 10:05:14
DK Ultimate came today. Confirmed! It's still made in Taiwan. It feels so nice in my hands. I fell in love with it just in minute of using it!

Purchased in German shop http://www.getdigital.de/

Just now I'm waiting for my ordered red o-rings from wasd and some color key caps.

Thanx davkol for his help in czech forum :-)
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: davkol on Wed, 18 September 2013, 10:30:54
Enjoy.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: jangozo on Tue, 24 December 2013, 18:42:41
DK Ultimate came today. Confirmed! It's still made in Taiwan. It feels so nice in my hands. I fell in love with it just in minute of using it!

Purchased in German shop http://www.getdigital.de/

Just now I'm waiting for my ordered red o-rings from wasd and some color key caps.

Thanx davkol for his help in czech forum :-)

Sure it's made in Taiwan but until somebody opens theirs to check the circuit board, nothing's for sure I'm afraid. I've got an Ultimate directly from Das Keyboards early this month also made in Taiwan and the space bar feel is uneven. Pressing the left side of the space bar feels much sturdier than when I press the right side which makes me think I'll find the same thing wetto found underneath.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 24 December 2013, 20:54:03
I think if it says it's made in Taiwan then for the most part you're safe.  As for the uneven spacebar, maybe check to see if the stabilizer wire is straight and sits properly.

I think even Costar make defects from time to time.  But yeah pop open your spacebar and check.

Follow this guide:

Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: terran5992 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 21:23:14
DK Ultimate came today. Confirmed! It's still made in Taiwan. It feels so nice in my hands. I fell in love with it just in minute of using it!

Purchased in German shop http://www.getdigital.de/

Just now I'm waiting for my ordered red o-rings from wasd and some color key caps.

Thanx davkol for his help in czech forum :-)

Sure it's made in Taiwan but until somebody opens theirs to check the circuit board, nothing's for sure I'm afraid. I've got an Ultimate directly from Das Keyboards early this month also made in Taiwan and the space bar feel is uneven. Pressing the left side of the space bar feels much sturdier than when I press the right side which makes me think I'll find the same thing wetto found underneath.



You should take a picture of the spacebar
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: jangozo on Wed, 25 December 2013, 03:34:51
I guess the Ultimates are still fine. :)

However, I couldn't find what was wrong with the stabilizers. I inspected them and everything seemed normal but when I put the space bar back it was just like before (left side stable, right side noisy and wobbly).
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: terran5992 on Wed, 25 December 2013, 03:58:20
The stabalizers look thinner on the left side
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: jangozo on Wed, 25 December 2013, 04:12:33
The stabalizers look thinner on the left side

Maybe it's the bad quality but I checked and they look equally thin to me. I even swapped them and it had no effect. I noticed something else, the metal piece isn't even. See how on the left side, the metal bar is touching the plastic and resting nicely but the right side isn't touching anything. I tried bending it to align them but it just wouldn't align.
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: Xrayz0r on Mon, 31 March 2014, 04:13:40
Check this out. Is it robots running the Das Keyboard helpdesk?

Quality is at the forefront of everything we do at Das Keyboard. Our goal is to create the best keyboard and the only way to do that is to put quality first. In 2012, we made a significant investment in additional factories to meet expanding demand and have carefully chosen additional manufacturers who reflect the same level of quality we have always stood for. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to send us a message over at Das Keyboard and we’d be happy to address them.

Quote from: March 2014 response from Das Keyboard helpdesk
Thank you for contacting us. Quality is at the forefront of everything we do at Das Keyboard. Our goal is to create the best keyboard and the only way to do that is to put quality first. In 2012, we made a significant investment in additional factories to meet expanding demand. Although we cannot disclose our manufacturing partners, we have carefully chosen additional manufacturers who reflect the same level of quality we have always stood for. Our Ultimate models are manufactured in Taiwan and our Professional models are manufactured in China.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have further questions.

Either a big coincidence, or they've been using the same standard response for 2 years now.

Or robots..
Title: Re: So the rumour with Das Keyboard is true
Post by: davkol on Mon, 31 March 2014, 04:59:38
Maybe they just run a patched version of the Corporate Bull**** Generator (http://sourceforge.net/projects/cbsg/).