[GB] cw80/60 by cruel world (70% SHIPPED)

[tactilesbad]

Cobertt is not a simp!
He is a  Trust & Safety Admin Team Member of the MK Vendor Trust and Safety System.

LMFAO all the more reason to expect an answer from him then?

[Cobertt]

Cobertt is not a simp!
He is a  Trust & Safety Admin Team Member of the MK Vendor Trust and Safety System.

LMFAO all the more reason to expect an answer from him then?

I don't know what you expect out of me. I vouched for this product based on my FnF unit and experience with prototypes. I provided photos of my friends and family unit and prototype to show that there was a difference between GB units as compared to the FnF unit and Prototype unit. I did not purchase a GB unit. Yes, I said I was friends with CW. We used to chat daily on Discord, but I did not know him in real life. Probably similar to how friends work in the majority of online spaces. I have not seen CW online in months on Discord. I haven't heard from him in longer. For what it's worth, my last message to him was pointing out the Reddit thread where these issues were brought to light. Not that my stance matters, because I've been painted as a simp or bad guy for enjoying a prototype and FnF unit that had zero issues that the GB keyboards experience. I'm personally frustrated that you all have been left hung out to dry. I do not think it's right, and it's left me extremely disappointed in CruelWorld. Seeing this group buy go south, absolutely sucks. The board had a lot of promise that can be seen in FnF units and prototype units and I wish that you had the same experience that I did. I don't know what went wrong with the main run. Obviously something was incorrectly machined or incorrectly modified in the files sent. Everyone in the group buy should be made whole again, and replacement PCBs to address the issue should be provided.

Who would have thought that saying, "Don't sleep on this," would cause such a massive headache? I paid full price for my FnF board ($619) in Feb of 2021 and my prototype was sold to me for $320 in November of 2021, before the open order period of the GB had even completed.  I had a good experience with original prototype units and a FnF board. I still believe that both my units are excellent keyboards. I'm sorry that GB units did not meet the standard set by FnF units. As has been said in this thread before, it really can be said that they are two different boards. It's not like people with FnF units had any idea that this would happen. I've been left in the dark as much as any of you.

As far as comments regarding MK Trust & Safety, yeah absolutely, this would be considered a "failed" group buy. 100%. MK Trust & Safety is a project that I've worked extremely hard on to give buyers as much information regarding a vendor as possible. CW is not a vendor. He has no storefront currently, and he's not selling any products. At this time he would not be allowed to advertise any projects through the platforms subscribed to the MK Trust & Safety Team. Other than that, there's no authority to be had over businesses, except allowing them to promote their projects free of charge.

From what I've been told, a Cannonkey's Bastion PCB will work in the CW60 and stop the interference from the cutout. I'm unsure if this is the case for the TKL. Again, this is not first-hand experience, as I have no group buy unit. It's what I was told in a private chat from someone who has GB board and didn't want to directly solder their JST. Your mileage may vary, but it might be worth a shot.

[incrediblejr]

Yes, I said I was friends with CW. We used to chat daily on Discord, but I did not know him in real life. Probably similar to how friends work in the majority of online spaces. I have not seen CW online in months on Discord. I haven't heard from him in longer. For what it's worth, my last message to him was pointing out the Reddit thread where these issues were brought to light. ... Everyone in the group buy should be made whole again, and replacement PCBs to address the issue should be provided.

So, you haven't seen or heard anything from your, now former, friend in months. Didn't you think that was something worth mentioning? Instead, we, the community, are expected to provide updates to mods that you, a mod, already "knew" months ago. Did you honestly expect that they would still uphold their promise to produce and distribute 800-1000+ PCBs and DB shims, even after they stopped interacting with their friends? Some of us still held out a sliver of hope...

[Cobertt]

Yes, I said I was friends with CW. We used to chat daily on Discord, but I did not know him in real life. Probably similar to how friends work in the majority of online spaces. I have not seen CW online in months on Discord. I haven't heard from him in longer. For what it's worth, my last message to him was pointing out the Reddit thread where these issues were brought to light. ... Everyone in the group buy should be made whole again, and replacement PCBs to address the issue should be provided.

So, you haven't seen or heard anything from your, now former, friend in months. Didn't you think that was something worth mentioning? Instead, we, the community, are expected to provide updates to mods that you, a mod, already "knew" months ago. Did you honestly expect that they would still uphold their promise to produce and distribute 800-1000+ PCBs and DB shims, even after they stopped interacting with their friends? Some of us still held out a sliver of hope...

If you didn't think that I was also holding out hope, you'd be sorely mistaken. I was hoping he would make this right, as I was also hoping for him to continue the projects he was working on. As I said, the board has fantastic potential based on my experience with the FnF/Proto units. Sometimes you hold out hope for people to make things right. We can all attest to that.

Please know that I am of the opinion that CW should fulfill his promise and distribute the pcbs and db shims. But to your point about MK Trust and Safety I have two things that should be worth mentioning overall. The system is put in place, and targets primarily vendors, even more so specifically to target vendors who are overextending their funds. Interrupting designer-led group buys was not what we ever intended to do in the first place. We are not the police, we felt that one area we could help is to try and provide information to the public on vendors. We also feel a responsibility for what is posted on the websites that we moderate, so we put in guidelines to allow for *free* advertisement of group buys. Something nobody is owed.  I would not consider CW a vendor. Second, this group buy was delivered. AFAIK no one is still waiting for their kit to arrive. That being said, there are issues with that kit. It does not perform the way that users expect. There is a difference between not receiving anything at all and receiving a flawed product. The board can be built, and the board can be used. It does not flex and isolate as intended and the JST is misaligned. I get there are other issues such as MDPC-X and shipper choice, but at the end of the day, the GB was delivered in full. That cannot be said of some of the vendors that the MK Trust and Safety team has been dealing with. While this group buy has clear issues, you received your product, and it doesn't live up to what was expected of customers given previous examples of the board in FnF and Prototype units nor CW's description of the board. but you have for all intents and purposes a working keyboard. I would like to repeat, that I don't think what you received is correct, nor do I think that it is acceptable of such a high-dollar board. I believe that all those affected by the aforementioned issues should receive the shims and/or PCBs that were promised by CW. You all were let down by CW. The people who excitedly vouched for this keyboard, based on the FnF and prototype runs are let down by CW. This isn't an exit scam. This isn't unfulfillment. This is a designer who did not meet the high expectations of his customers, nor the expectations he set for himself. This doesn't change that I hold him to his word, and I firmly believe he should make this right for all his customers.

Unfortunately, I'm human and I held out hope that someone I considered a friend was going to do the right thing. I'm sorry that it looks like it's not going to happen.

[tactilesbad]

The system is put in place, and targets primarily vendors

so the specific case of a designer self fulfilling a project and bailing on his minimal duties does not deserve community awareness since he's not technically a vendor?

It does not perform the way that users expect.

of course it's the user's fault for expecting something absolutely minimal and basic for a board this price which was widely advertised and hyped as something "to not sleep on" by many highly regarded creators in the hobby. the board was either badly designed or manufactured using wrong/outdated cad files, it is NOT a matter of expectations. the board is FLAWED however you try to put it. it CANNOT be built the way it was intended to be, factually.

the GB was delivered in full.

this is the absolute bare minimum and I'm appalled we're being told that this is one of the reasons no one is talking about this situation anymore. also "delivered" yes, but how? my board came scuffed and you'd be shocked to read the heap of arrogant and passive aggressive replies I had to endure from this individual before he bothered to do anything about it. and thank god he acted before the jst issue was brought to life, or I'd be stuck with a flawed AND scuffed board to boot.

I'm not targeting you individually let's be clear, cw had many more connection going on in the hobby with people that facilitated the financial success of his GB and went equally radio silent, I'm just honestly shocked at the reasons why everyone is ignoring the situation (or dismissing it as speculation lmao).
I just hope that if he ever takes the unfortunate decision of coming back and trying to sell another $600-700 board, the whole influencer section of the hobby will point out his utter unreliability.

[Cobertt]

so the specific case of a designer self fulfilling a project and bailing on his minimal duties does not deserve community awareness since he's not technically a vendor?

1. Community awareness is established through this thread and the Reddit post. The Reddit thread was done at a relevant time during the fulfillment.
2. MK Trust and Safety is a rating system to determine the trustworthiness for a vendor to complete a group buy fully. It is not a system intended to rate vendors on anything other than that. It's not a system to rate designers on anything other than that. The purpose was clear when it was created that it is not a rating of vendors or designers themselves. The system does not also force rate vendors or designers except in extreme cases. For example there are talks about force rating Rama Works.

of course it's the user's fault for expecting something absolutely minimal and basic for a board this price which was widely advertised and hyped as something "to not sleep on" by many highly regarded creators in the hobby. the board was either badly designed or manufactured using wrong/outdated cad files, it is NOT a matter of expectations. the board is FLAWED however you try to put it. it CANNOT be built the way it was intended to be, factually.

You are quoting out of context for the sake of your argument. You yourself stated, "For all intents and purposes, the FnF board could be considered a distinct board with similar aesthetics." I recommended the board based on my experiences with the FnF board as well as the prototype. I further stated that there was either a mistake in the CNC process or the final design files. I also stated that the board is flawed. I don't know why you are still acting as if this hasn't been stated.

this is the absolute bare minimum and I'm appalled we're being told that this is one of the reasons no one is talking about this situation anymore. also "delivered" yes, but how?

Again, I'm discussing in good faith. I'm not quite sure what you're after here. The PSA was not silenced on any platform and this thread serves as a long term place of discussion. You've stated that you want a PSA about the issue, but you made the PSA. Here and on Reddit.

I'm not targeting you individually let's be clear, cw had many more connection going on in the hobby with people that facilitated the financial success of his GB and went equally radio silent, I'm just honestly shocked at the reasons why everyone is ignoring the situation (or dismissing it as speculation lmao).

You continuously quote that I said, "Don't sleep on this." It comes off as targeted. I'm also the only one still engaging in discussion about the flaws in this board. I'm not some great keyboard influencer. I'm just a guy that's been in this hobby for a very long time, that loves keyboards and the community. I had a good experience with a FnF and proto unit, so I recommended it. Not much more to say there. The connections in the hobby part is a little more of a tinfoil hat theory. Dude had what was perceived as a good product via the FnF/Proto units during the absolute height of the hobby where FOMO reigned supreme. You could spit in a jar call it Krytox69 and someone would have bought it. There isn't some sort of keyboard shadow council or anything lol.

I just hope that if he ever takes the unfortunate decision of coming back and trying to sell another $600-700 board, the whole influencer section of the hobby will point out his utter unreliability.

I can tell you that he wouldn't be able to market it on any official platforms until all issues regarding this group buy were resolved. That is what the goal of the MK Trust and Safety team is. 

[incrediblejr]

...
But to your point about MK Trust and Safety I have two things that should be worth mentioning overall.
...

I have never once mentioned your pet project but don't let that stop you from giving us a one-page brief, you should lookup who's who in this thread and answer accordingly.

As you could see from my link to a /r/MechanicalKeyboards post, a guy asked if no official announcement about CW was in order where he was responded with a link to CWs throwaway account where CW promised to make everything right. Quite the power move to create a throwaway account, as they couldn't use their old ones because "reasons", and make empty promises which then blocks any further actions on the platform. Instead of having an official announcement (it's been 9 months, it aint happening) where then a vendor maybe could offer compatible PCBs at cost/a small markup or the community organically could come together and make a fix/PCB. I don't say that that will happen but guess we will never know and I am expecting too much of /r/MechanicalKeyboards. I don't really expect a response; I just wanted to see if this sounded as stupid written down as it did in my head, and it did.

I'm also the only one still engaging in discussion about the flaws in this board.

You keep saying this but the fact of the matter is that you are only here now because someone, not me, called you out personally (or your pet project) even though you "knew" these replacements wouldn't happen months ago. It is not like you ever volunteered any information, let alone help/broker with your friend CW with this mess of a GB, unless you were called out.

Unfortunately, you seem to be deliberately obtuse, not seeing how bad this looks. But I'm not the only one who publicly holds that belief. Anyway, I'll get out of your hair now as nothing fruitful will ever come out of pointing out the bad optics involved and you going "What do you expect me to do? I was holding out hope as well. Have I told you about my pet project?" back and forths.

Also, a cursory glance shows you are referencing at least four different persons when doing your paperdoll arguments so please do a pass on your posts and attribute your quotes to the right persons. If for nothing else, do it for your own sake, so you know who you're arguing with and about.

Again, CW have been active on Geekhack ever since the PSA: CruelWorld 60 has unexcusable design flaws post and are free to chime in at any time.

[jivex5k]

what a **** show... cw just admit you ****ed up, I sent you hot sauce man

[incrediblejr]

"Replacement PCBs still nowhere to be seen from CruelWorld" is the latest Reddit post about the flawed design of the CW60, where we learn that CW doesn't even answer emails anymore, but surely he will produce and distribute PCBs and DB shims for every GB participant .

I have reached out to them by mail and on Geekhack, where they seem to be most active, and will update with developments, or lack thereof.