[IC] GMK Space Cadet, launches August 3rd 2018 on Massdrop

[xondat]

Which GMK caps had centered legends?

That Rebirth set that JChan ran through Keyclack is Cherry profile with center legends, as is the WhiteFox set that I:C runs their boards with. Just to name two.

Neither are GMK.

[hineybush]

Which GMK caps had centered legends?

That Rebirth set that JChan ran through Keyclack is Cherry profile with center legends, as is the WhiteFox set that I:C runs their boards with. Just to name two.

Neither are GMK.

Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS. Also, imo, they look weird with the centered legends

[Captainbuttmonkey]

Which GMK caps had centered legends?

That Rebirth set that JChan ran through Keyclack is Cherry profile with center legends, as is the WhiteFox set that I:C runs their boards with. Just to name two.

As one of the people unfortunate to have bought the 'rebirth set'. None of us that bought it even knows if it exists or not lol.

[zslane]

I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?

I'd rephrase the "logic" as this: tribute sets should, whenever possible, seek to emulate the aesthetics of the original as much as technically and economically feasible, particularly when said aesthetic is especially distinctive and/or historically significant. It is merely a design approach which makes the most sense to me. In addition, if you aren't going to do a tribute set, then don't name it as if it was one, as it is misleading at best and disrespectful (to the memory of the original) at worst.

The centered legends work better on the spherical profiles of SA or DSA imo, since the text is finer and sometimes smaller.

I would bet that 99% of computer users--nearly all of whom type on cylindrical keycaps with corner legends--don't have this bias and would not identify anything "wrong" or "ugly" about cylindrical keycaps with centered legends. They have not acquired any sort of bias one way or the other, proving that there is no intrinsically "natural" legend style for any keycap shape. I'd argue that you feel that a certain type of legend only goes with a certain shape of keycap because repeated exposure to these differences has calcified your preferences into two distinct, mutually exclusive, camps. I'm trying to break down those artificial aesthetic barriers and get the "typical GMK buyer" to consider a different perspective. While I don't expect to change anyone's mind about what they like, it would be nice to know they at least acknowledge that something other than what they are used to is nevertheless valid.

[zslane]

Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.

I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.

[Captainbuttmonkey]

Also as much as I really don't want to bring it up, (this thread is already fairly cancerous in my opinion =S) I don't really feel as if I got a definitive answer as to my earlier question of whether an iso layout with two backslash/pipe keys in could be avoided? Sorry I just think it's a bit of a no brainer, I'm assuming this is no and I'll just have to suck it up.

Surely a poll makes sense at this point so that everyone can feel they have given their opinion and had their say? Regardless of whether Oblotzsky actually wants to use the data or not? I feel like it would help to alleviate the fairly constant, and mostly meaningless at this point, bickering in this thread. People like different styles of legends and people like to state their opinion/preference as fact, next topic perhaps... 

[hineybush]

Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.

I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.

The intial question was "Which GMK caps had centered legends?"

[elfick]

Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.

I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.

The intial question was "Which GMK caps had centered legends?"

Yah, I was primarily referring to novelties but there are some other GMK keys that are effectively centered due to the legend length... 1.5u Control for instance. I'm sure there are others.

[sncbraxsc2]

Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.

I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.

The intial question was "Which GMK caps had centered legends?"

I think puddsy gave the answer to that - thanks!

I very much agree with your first two points. Which GMK caps had centered legends?

Maybe novelties but can't think of any so wanting to be proven wrong

some keys on the bottom row, windows logos, menu, "control," and i think there's one other

arguably full caps lock

pause, prtsc, scroll lock (but it's left aligned)

but that's it, nothing super notable, nothing that requires readability

 although zslane's response was, in essence, what I was looking for. Despite not really liking either of those sets, I think Space Cadet would look much better.. The fact that neither of those sets were GMK, though, brings the question about the affordability of any new molds

[zslane]

Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.

I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.

The intial question was "Which GMK caps had centered legends?"

Ah, I interpreted that question as, "Which cylindrical caps had centered legends?" because the debate is over legend style vs. keycap shape, not legend style vs. keycap manufacturer. Consequently, I thought he used "GMK" as a synonym for "cylindrical".

If he really did mean to ask about GMK keycaps specifically, then I don't know of any that have centered legends. But that doesn't mean they can't have them. It just means nobody has designed a GMK set with centered legends...yet.

[Puddsy]

i am not opposed to single legends on cylindrical caps a la round 2/3 dolch sets

i think it would look awkward with sublegends, and be too expensive to do it with GMK

[kmba]

This legend discussion has run its course.  Every possible argument and retort has been laid down, both sides have written their thesis, and now it's up to Oblotzky to decide and tell us he's going with the original mock up .  I'd implore you all to move on to other topics. 

[sncbraxsc2]

This legend discussion has run its course.  Every possible argument and retort has been laid down, both sides have written their thesis, and now it's up to Oblotzky to decide and tell us he's going with the original mock up .  I'd implore you all to move on to other topics.

 -1
I encourage any further discussion  Oblotzky said he's a little busy, don't rush him!

[blighty]

We could always try for GMK R4 SPH?   

[Geek Maker]

INTERESTED IN

[amnesia0287]

I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?

I'd rephrase the "logic" as this: tribute sets should, whenever possible, seek to emulate the aesthetics of the original as much as technically and economically feasible, particularly when said aesthetic is especially distinctive and/or historically significant. It is merely a design approach which makes the most sense to me. In addition, if you aren't going to do a tribute set, then don't name it as if it was one, as it is misleading at best and disrespectful (to the memory of the original) at worst.

Space Cadet is a name. Have you ever actually looked at any of the sets "tribute" sets are based on?

GMK Triumph Adler:


Actual Triumph Adler:


GMK Royal Alpha:


Actual Royal Alpha:


Heck, even 9009 isn't actually a true reproduction:





You mention economic feasibility, but seem to ignore all the people telling you doing so likely IS NOT. How is calling it miss leading or disrespectful? By that logic you could also say it's misleading to sell a set as a GMK set when it's not consistent with the GMK product and you could say its disrespectful to the original designers of the cherry layout.

Looking at the renders, to ME it's extremely obvious what the basis of the set is, and I'd imagine the original designers are more likely to be flattered than offended "how dare you change our functional design for an old massive keyboard and adapt it to suit your normal design which no longer uses all our extra legends for anything functional, that is so offensive" Does this sound like something someone would say?

I totally get that you want centered legends, but you are ignoring all the reasons they dont make sense just because you really like them.

[hansichen]

I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?

I'd rephrase the "logic" as this: tribute sets should, whenever possible, seek to emulate the aesthetics of the original as much as technically and economically feasible, particularly when said aesthetic is especially distinctive and/or historically significant. It is merely a design approach which makes the most sense to me. In addition, if you aren't going to do a tribute set, then don't name it as if it was one, as it is misleading at best and disrespectful (to the memory of the original) at worst.

Space Cadet is a name. Have you ever actually looked at any of the sets "tribute" sets are based on?

GMK Triumph Adler:

Show Image

Actual Triumph Adler:

Show Image

GMK Royal Alpha:

Show Image

Actual Royal Alpha:

Show Image

Heck, even 9009 isn't actually a true reproduction:

Show Image

You mention economic feasibility, but seem to ignore all the people telling you doing so likely IS NOT. How is calling it miss leading or disrespectful? By that logic you could also say it's misleading to sell a set as a GMK set when it's not consistent with the GMK product and you could say its disrespectful to the original designers of the cherry layout.

Looking at the renders, to ME it's extremely obvious what the basis of the set is, and I'd imagine the original designers are more likely to be flattered than offended "how dare you change our functional design for an old massive keyboard and adapt it to suit your normal design which no longer uses all our extra legends for anything functional, that is so offensive" Does this sound like something someone would say?

I totally get that you want centered legends, but you are ignoring all the reasons they dont make sense just because you really like them.

First of all you got the wrong triumph Adler picture, gmk triumph Adler is a remake of the TA Dario boards which looked roughly like that (but with darker alphas). And the gmk royal alpha keyset ran in the base kit with white mods, the green mods were an add on. This comparison went really wrong.

[amnesia0287]

I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?

I'd rephrase the "logic" as this: tribute sets should, whenever possible, seek to emulate the aesthetics of the original as much as technically and economically feasible, particularly when said aesthetic is especially distinctive and/or historically significant. It is merely a design approach which makes the most sense to me. In addition, if you aren't going to do a tribute set, then don't name it as if it was one, as it is misleading at best and disrespectful (to the memory of the original) at worst.

Space Cadet is a name. Have you ever actually looked at any of the sets "tribute" sets are based on?

GMK Triumph Adler:

Show Image

Actual Triumph Adler:

Show Image

GMK Royal Alpha:

Show Image

Actual Royal Alpha:

Show Image

Heck, even 9009 isn't actually a true reproduction:

Show Image

You mention economic feasibility, but seem to ignore all the people telling you doing so likely IS NOT. How is calling it miss leading or disrespectful? By that logic you could also say it's misleading to sell a set as a GMK set when it's not consistent with the GMK product and you could say its disrespectful to the original designers of the cherry layout.

Looking at the renders, to ME it's extremely obvious what the basis of the set is, and I'd imagine the original designers are more likely to be flattered than offended "how dare you change our functional design for an old massive keyboard and adapt it to suit your normal design which no longer uses all our extra legends for anything functional, that is so offensive" Does this sound like something someone would say?

I totally get that you want centered legends, but you are ignoring all the reasons they dont make sense just because you really like them.

First of all you got the wrong triumph Adler picture, gmk triumph Adler is a remake of the TA Dario boards which looked roughly like that (but with darker alphas). And the gmk royal alpha keyset ran in the base kit with white mods, the green mods were an add on. This comparison went really wrong.

I'm sorry I'm not a classic board nerd, I defer to you on that. Regardless, none of them, exactly resemble the sets the copy, they are INSPIRED by them, not carbon copies. My only point was that he is acting like what he wants is the norm, and it is not.

Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.

[blighty]

Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.

Please stop stating your options as fact. Not all doubleshot SA caps have centered legends...

[Puddsy]

Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.

Please stop stating your options as fact. Not all doubleshot SA caps have centered legends...

(Attachment Link)

also chronicler

[xondat]

Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.

Please stop stating your options as fact. Not all doubleshot SA caps have centered legends...

(Attachment Link)

also chronicler

By mistake too

Is it common to have SA caps non-doubleshot?

[zslane]

Regardless, none of them, exactly resemble the sets the copy, they are INSPIRED by them, not carbon copies.

Well, most of those "inspired by" sets aren't really tribute sets by my definition, by virtue of the fact that the designers could have made them much closer in appearance (at little or no extra cost) but chose not to, primarily because they weren't really interested in doing a tribute, but merely making keycaps that sorta, kinda reminded you of the original. I happen to feel that the Space Cadet keyboard deserves better than keysets that are merely "inspired by" it.

As for the cost of a full set of new legends (over and above the cost already incurred by the new alpha legends), do we have a formal quote from GMK for such a set? Or are you just guestimating?

Is it common to have SA caps non-doubleshot?

No, it is not common. Until fairly recently, double-shot ABS was the only option because Signature Plastics did not have dye-sub assembly boards for their SA keycaps. But beyond that, the constraints of dye-sublimated legends makes that process unattractive for many keyset designs, and especially so for sets that are tributes of classic vintage boards that themselves used double-shot legends (typically because they feature legends that are lighter in color than the keycap shells).

[Canceaux]

Just my two cents, but with the announcement of SA Symbiosis R2, I don't understand why people are still pushing for centered legends on this set. If you're dead set on authenticity, SA profile is always going to be more faithful than GMK, since like OG Space Cadet and other Micro Switch caps, it's hi-pro spherical not mid-pro cylindrical. Why torture centred legends out of GMK at some ridiculous unspecified cost when SA will always be a closer copy at a cheaper price?

IMO this set is meant to be an interpretation of Space Cadet as Cherry might have made it, the best of both OG Cadet and Cherry aesthetics. Cherry profile's quirks (left alignment, corner legends, different typing feel) are the feature for this set, not a bug. Even though I'll probably pick up Symbiosis R2, I'll definitely buy GMK Space Cadet as well because I think it has something unique to add. But if this set is just going to slavishly copy the OG rather than rolling with GMK, now that Symbiosis R2 is out there'd be no reason for GMK Space Cadet to exist at all.

[schoolbus]

this whole thread is hilarious and helps explain why we can't have nice things.

[crtexcnndrm99]

I thought this was GMK, not SA.. :joy:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Puddsy]

Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.

Please stop stating your options as fact. Not all doubleshot SA caps have centered legends...

(Attachment Link)

also chronicler

By mistake too

Is it common to have SA caps non-doubleshot?

i mean there have been dyesub SA sets before, ice cap comes to mind

but it's more common to see SA with the big centered legends rather than the top-left aligned ones

[zslane]

I don't understand why people are still pushing for centered legends on this set.

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

I thought this was GMK, not SA.. :joy:

It is, but that is not really germain to the legend styles available to the designer.

[donutcat]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

[xondat]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

[Puddsy]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legends

[xondat]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legends

Oh for sure, but being snarky about the logic not fitting with his opinion isn't fair )

[donutcat]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

The sarcasm, it's too stronk!

Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.

[xondat]

Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.

What if someone wants the original aesthetic but prefers Cherry profile? The closest compromise is to keep everything exactly the same, but change the profile. The next closest compromise is change profile & change alignment.

[donutcat]

Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.

What if someone wants the original aesthetic but prefers Cherry profile? The closest compromise is to keep everything exactly the same, but change the profile. The next closest compromise is change profile & change alignment.

I think one of the most important things you can learn in this hobby is how much you can want something unique before it's too much to expect others to support. Weird layouts is particularly applicable to this as far as super niche layouts wanting support from sets that come out. For a set that's meant to be sold to hundreds or sometimes a thousand or more different people, it's unrealistic to expect the set creator to add stuff to the set that's gonna increase the cost for many and benefit only a small portion. This is one of those instances. There may be some people that value the original styling over cherry styling but still want cherry profile, but they are almost certainly a sever minority. Anyone on MD that is willing to spend the amount of money we do on plastic for their keyboards is most likely not going to want this set to match some old keyboard from wherever, they're going to expect an experience consistent with other GMK sets and cherry styling. Centered legends would be akin to making the base kit ISO-DE with no child kits to make it ansi again and also costing more money for some reason, but overall catering to a clear minority.

[ideus]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

The sarcasm, it's too stronk!

Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.

That would be the way to go when you run your Lisp version. 


Seriously, in recent buys, the norm has been an eclectic mix of newness and classic trends that cannot be more far from proper etiquette in regards of respecting classyness of the classics, so who may say that some line should be over everything else.

[Oblotzky]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legends

I very much appreciate all the discussion going on regarding legends, but I have to put an end to the constant back and forth.

I will keep the legends as they are depicted in the renders right now. This set is supposed to be inspired by the Space Cadet, not be a replication of it. I'm taking colors and APL symbols from the original, and merging it with the design rules made by Cherry to bring it to their cylindrical profile. Meaning we remain having the primary alpha legend in the top left corner, while secondary legends go in the bottom right, not the other way around as it is done on the OG Cadet, and certainly not centered. And naturally, this means modifier text is aligned to the left side of caps.

There are currently two things on my todo list: I will be adding a 40% kit, and a Text+Icons kit that brings back the caps some of you so dearly miss in the current base kit (not a second base kit, but the 11 keys that have those legends as a addon pack)

[Captainbuttmonkey]

half this thread right now...



The other half...

[donutcat]

Thank ****. I would have saved a bit of money had the legends been centered, but I would have been sad to miss it. Looking forward to my all blue set with proper legends now 

[chuckdee]

Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.

What if someone wants the original aesthetic but prefers Cherry profile? The closest compromise is to keep everything exactly the same, but change the profile. The next closest compromise is change profile & change alignment.

I think one of the most important things you can learn in this hobby is how much you can want something unique before it's too much to expect others to support. Weird layouts is particularly applicable to this as far as super niche layouts wanting support from sets that come out. For a set that's meant to be sold to hundreds or sometimes a thousand or more different people, it's unrealistic to expect the set creator to add stuff to the set that's gonna increase the cost for many and benefit only a small portion. This is one of those instances. There may be some people that value the original styling over cherry styling but still want cherry profile, but they are almost certainly a sever minority. Anyone on MD that is willing to spend the amount of money we do on plastic for their keyboards is most likely not going to want this set to match some old keyboard from wherever, they're going to expect an experience consistent with other GMK sets and cherry styling. Centered legends would be akin to making the base kit ISO-DE with no child kits to make it ansi again and also costing more money for some reason, but overall catering to a clear minority.

This is the only logic that applies.

[Puddsy]

we've been played boys

[crtexcnndrm99]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legends

Show Image

I very much appreciate all the discussion going on regarding legends, but I have to put an end to the constant back and forth.

I will keep the legends as they are depicted in the renders right now. This set is supposed to be inspired by the Space Cadet, not be a replication of it. I'm taking colors and APL symbols from the original, and merging it with the design rules made by Cherry to bring it to their cylindrical profile. Meaning we remain having the primary alpha legend in the top left corner, while secondary legends go in the bottom right, not the other way around as it is done on the OG Cadet, and certainly not centered. And naturally, this means modifier text is aligned to the left side of caps.

There are currently two things on my todo list: I will be adding a 40% kit, and a Text+Icons kit that brings back the caps some of you so dearly miss in the current base kit (not a second base kit, but the 11 keys that have those legends as a addon pack)

My man. Let’s do this!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sncbraxsc2]

Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.

There is logic for both sides though?

The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.

knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legends

Show Image

I very much appreciate all the discussion going on regarding legends, but I have to put an end to the constant back and forth.

I will keep the legends as they are depicted in the renders right now. This set is supposed to be inspired by the Space Cadet, not be a replication of it. I'm taking colors and APL symbols from the original, and merging it with the design rules made by Cherry to bring it to their cylindrical profile. Meaning we remain having the primary alpha legend in the top left corner, while secondary legends go in the bottom right, not the other way around as it is done on the OG Cadet, and certainly not centered. And naturally, this means modifier text is aligned to the left side of caps.

There are currently two things on my todo list: I will be adding a 40% kit, and a Text+Icons kit that brings back the caps some of you so dearly miss in the current base kit (not a second base kit, but the 11 keys that have those legends as a addon pack)

Thank you for listening and deciding Oblotzky!! <3 I hope many join in on the kits you are adding!

[BobCarltheThird]

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we've been played boys

To be fair the legends were going to be the flashpoint of the set no matter what. As we've all learned people are REALLY passionate about how their lettering looks. Never mind the fact that 90 percent of us are touch typists and we're going to be paying attention to it maybe a few times a day.

[Puddsy]

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we've been played boys

To be fair the legends were going to be the flashpoint of the set no matter what. As we've all learned people are REALLY passionate about how their lettering looks. Never mind the fact that 90 percent of us are touch typists and we're going to be paying attention to it maybe a few times a day.

i know but it's funny

[zslane]

I didn't really expect Oblotzky to change from corner legends. I liked the idea of floating the possibility of centered legends, but I didn't think it had much of a chance. That wasn't really the point of (my part of) the debate.

The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."

Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.

[Kevadu]

I didn't even want to participate in this thread because there's so much cancer in it...but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."

Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.

This.  So much this.

Saying that they should stick to corner legends because it would cost too much to make new molds for centered legends is perfectly reasonable and I don't think anyone even disputed that point.  But saying that they should stick to corner legends because it somehow wouldn't be Cherry profile if the legends were moved is completely insane.

Learn to think outside the box a little people.

[Oblotzky]

I didn't even want to participate in this thread because there's so much cancer in it...but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."

Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.

This.  So much this.

Saying that they should stick to corner legends because it would cost too much to make new molds for centered legends is perfectly reasonable and I don't think anyone even disputed that point.  But saying that they should stick to corner legends because it somehow wouldn't be Cherry profile if the legends were moved is completely insane.

Learn to think outside the box a little people.

And I made a render, and it looked like arse. Cherry made the right call. There are plenty of things where I stopped and asked "why is this done like that?" and if I disagreed, I changed it. E.g. Prt Sc legend and SysReq/Break sideprints are aweful, first thing I threw out when I made a GMK set. And now the same for Pg Dn turned Page Down etc. But alpha legend alignment was not one of those things.

[Puddsy]

I didn't even want to participate in this thread because there's so much cancer in it...but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."

Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.

This.  So much this.

Saying that they should stick to corner legends because it would cost too much to make new molds for centered legends is perfectly reasonable and I don't think anyone even disputed that point.  But saying that they should stick to corner legends because it somehow wouldn't be Cherry profile if the legends were moved is completely insane.

Learn to think outside the box a little people.

And I made a render, and it looked like arse. Cherry made the right call. There are plenty of things where I stopped and asked "why is this done like that?" and if I disagreed, I changed it. E.g. Prt Sc legend and SysReq/Break sideprints are aweful, first thing I threw out when I made a GMK set. And now the same for Pg Dn turned Page Down etc. But alpha legend alignment was not one of those things.

pretty much

we've looked, it's ****

let's move on

[Khers]

.

[vewy_nice]

We need a link in the OP something like

"TL;DR: Legends are in the corner. Skip to page 9 for further updates and discussion."