Author Topic: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard  (Read 147215 times)

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Offline mivanov

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #350 on: Tue, 24 November 2015, 16:39:19 »
You heard correctly! A new Freestyle is coming out very soon. I will have more details to post in a couple of weeks.
Will the new Freestyle have contoured keywells?
No pressure, I can wait few weeks for the answer :)
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/kinesis-planning-split-ergo-gaming-board-t10662.html
Reds are a no-go. Will wait for a split Advantage. Even if keyboards become obsolete by then and we all become cyborgs :D

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #351 on: Tue, 24 November 2015, 17:49:28 »
You heard correctly! A new Freestyle is coming out very soon. I will have more details to post in a couple of weeks.
Will the new Freestyle have contoured keywells?
No pressure, I can wait few weeks for the answer :)
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/kinesis-planning-split-ergo-gaming-board-t10662.html
Reds are a no-go. Will wait for a split Advantage. Even if keyboards become obsolete by then and we all become cyborgs :D

Whoever posted that Freestyle gaming keyboard brochure did so without our permission and was never meant to be seen by anyone outside of a select few.  I personally don't mind but it's not official by any means and could be a little misleading to viewers. There will be other features/options not listed in that draft brochure (likely the key switches as well).

Offline hoggy

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #352 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 01:55:27 »
I think it ticks a lot of boxes, mechanical, split, tenting options, easy to adapt to...  I'm sure if it was around the past few years, it would have been a credible suggestion to questions on this sub forum.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #353 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 19:19:27 »
If the Freestyle does come out with MX reds, I'm definitely interested.  I'd probably get a custom case made so I can have it as a single-case dedicated split/tent keyboard.

Offline BlueByLiquid

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #354 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 18:06:27 »
Oh wow I have always hoped you would get rid of the tiny rubber keys on the advantage but really you didn't make them any bigger? They are impossible to use without looking directly at them and focusing I can't believe you didn't make them bigger.

I am glad that you are going to have an Advantage pro with a log more features (maybe with backlighting so I don't have to mode it like I did with one of my other classics :). i have been ready to buy one for ages. My PS2 classis version is so screwed up I'm on my second one. It repeats keys all the time. The usb adapter you guys gave me  that actually works seems to have issues with windows 10 (or is just going out) and repeats/misses keys all the time.

I really hope you can put at least slightly larger (at least taller, as in how far they stick out, for sure as they are a huge ergonomic issue with how short they are. I love Advantage but I really need a new keyboard that doesn't make me repeat code all day long.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 December 2015, 10:31:30 by BlueByLiquid »

Offline petreza

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #355 on: Wed, 06 January 2016, 14:26:26 »
Happy New Year!

(just saying)
:rolleyes:
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 January 2016, 04:38:35 by petreza »

Offline goflo

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #356 on: Sun, 31 January 2016, 06:55:37 »
Should we make a monthly bump for this vaporware?
Anyone taking bets if it tops Duke Nukem?  :))
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #357 on: Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:32:27 »
Should we make a monthly bump for this vaporware?
Anyone taking bets if it tops Duke Nukem?  :))

Are we talking time to release, level if happiness upon release, or both? :D

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #358 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 15:28:48 »
Should we make a monthly bump for this vaporware?
Anyone taking bets if it tops Duke Nukem?  :))

Haha we're actually releasing a special Duke Nukem Advantage as well as a Half Life 3 Advantage Pro!

Seriously though the Advantage2 will come out this year! I'm typing on one right now!

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #359 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:21:51 »
Should we make a monthly bump for this vaporware?
Anyone taking bets if it tops Duke Nukem?  :))

Haha we're actually releasing a special Duke Nukem Advantage as well as a Half Life 3 Advantage Pro!

Seriously though the Advantage2 will come out this year! I'm typing on one right now!

You tease!  >.<

Offline glax

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #360 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 04:57:41 »
...
Seriously though the Advantage2 will come out this year! I'm typing on one right now!

This year? Like in prior-to-December-31-2016-23:59-o'clock-but-not-much?
I somehow hoped for first q. of this year.
OK, I once even hoped for end of 2013 when this thread started in 2012. Wouldn't believe devellopment of a keyboard may take four years, my fault, sorry.
No offense, natas, I believe it when I see it. Last three years were a bit frustrating concerning this.

Offline vvp

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #361 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:17:44 »
I made my own keyboard in my free time over about 20 months instead of waiting for the new Kinesis Advantage. But there is a big difference between one prototype and a ready to sell product.  I'm not surprised it takes about 4 years to get it out. That is the reason I started my project in December 2013. I was reasonably confident I'll have it done long before I could buy the new Kinesis Advantage :)

You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #362 on: Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:11:34 »
...
Seriously though the Advantage2 will come out this year! I'm typing on one right now!

This year? Like in prior-to-December-31-2016-23:59-o'clock-but-not-much?
I somehow hoped for first q. of this year.
OK, I once even hoped for end of 2013 when this thread started in 2012. Wouldn't believe devellopment of a keyboard may take four years, my fault, sorry.
No offense, natas, I believe it when I see it. Last three years were a bit frustrating concerning this.

None taken glax, I completely understand. Unfortunately we had several hiccups on the way that delayed our project or forced us to start over from scratch, which as you can imagine was very frustrating on our end! That is behind us now thankfully. A couple people in this thread have tried beta Adv2 keyboards so hopefully that can provide an indication we're on the right path.


Offline flog

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #363 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 15:44:14 »
I know it is a bit late to ask for features but would it be possible to have more options on the cherry switches? I know that you already made the Advantage LF which is great for those who like linear.

I modded my advantage to get cherry mx blues. Not a difficult mod, especially since you guys where nice enough to let me buy the required spare parts. Still, if I where to buy an advantage 2 I'd like get more options on switches, frankly because it would be much cheaper than having to mod it.

Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #364 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:39:42 »
I have to say, I am curious what the changes will be.  Then again, I have a white Kinesis split keyboard (s/n 12067), and a silver Kinesis Advantage (s/n 81649PU). Well, that and three Maltrons. :)

But if the new one is awesomeness incarnate, out will come my credit card again.  :))

Offline glitchathon

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #365 on: Sun, 14 February 2016, 01:28:24 »
The improved function keys will be nice, but I am curious if there are any other major physical changes? Will the long keys have stabilizers? I actually use the keyboard nearly as it came. I only switched the tab and capslock. So the programming improvements will not be as big a deal for me.

Offline vivalarevoluciůn

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #366 on: Sun, 14 February 2016, 18:22:11 »

You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.

Yea, there is basically one competitor to this, the Maltron.  And if you consider the price differences, there are no competitors, because the Maltron costs twice as much.

We have Ergodox and the Keyboardio, but those still are not exactly contoured keyboards, more of the split variety with thumbs keys.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline incrediblemath

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #367 on: Sun, 14 February 2016, 19:46:12 »
The refurb Advantage I've been using for the last 10 years (!) is starting to skip keypresses I think, so hopefully a successor isn't too far off!

Will the new Advantage have the same RJ-11 jack for the footswitch? I'd like to keep using my homemade switch if at all possible.

Offline figit090

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #368 on: Tue, 16 February 2016, 01:00:12 »
I made my own keyboard in my free time over about 20 months instead of waiting for the new Kinesis Advantage. But there is a big difference between one prototype and a ready to sell product.  I'm not surprised it takes about 4 years to get it out. That is the reason I started my project in December 2013. I was reasonably confident I'll have it done long before I could buy the new Kinesis Advantage :)

You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.
Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool. 

I have to disagree with no rush when competition isn't around.  The fact there is no competition is scary because that means opportunity.  Imagine if Microsoft took a leap into the true ergo market with a contoured board?  They could easily do it and they'd have their split 'ergo' board fans already interested.

I think small companies need to sweat to stay on top and be REALLY proactive.  Imagine if Kinesis had a bigger presence online and such?  Pander to gamers a bit or at least get up every corporate nose possible to sell contoured boards? 

Maybe they do, and I actually think they do, but I just hope things are going well.  Instagram is a good avenue they could pursue. Their products and customer service are top notch, I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"

Someday!
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 February 2016, 01:02:07 by figit090 »

Offline vvp

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #369 on: Tue, 16 February 2016, 05:26:38 »
Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool.
Thanks. As for as the colors, well, I used whatever was in the printer at the time I printed the part. So it is a consequence of me being lazy to change the filament :)

I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"
I think this is the biggest problem. It looks too differently, some keys are at different positions (number keys shifted to the right, arrows keys completely different). The new layout is better but people do not know it. And people are afraid they would forget how to type on a standard keyboard when Kinesis Advantage is used most of the time. Every Kinesis user knows it is not an issue. Which is not helping much since these are the people who already converted to the right keyboard. And frankly, most people type very little and the keyboard just does not bother them.

And to be honest, Kinesis Advantage pinkie keys are not that good. Mine keyboard has them much better  ;D

Look at a simple thing like keyboard layout. We have many layouts better than QWERTY and there is no cost to change to them. And almost nobody does it anyway.

Therefore I think there is no need to be afraid somebody would try to enter contoured keyboard market in a big way. Instead they put one half of keys a bit more far away from the other half. Screw up arrow cluster even a more than it already is on a standard keyboard and call it Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard. But the ergonomics is only in the name and not in the shape or layout.

Vivalarevoluciůn is right. There is no competition. At least now. And I doubt it ever changes. Which is a pity.

Offline figit090

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #370 on: Tue, 16 February 2016, 19:02:09 »
Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool.
Thanks. As for as the colors, well, I used whatever was in the printer at the time I printed the part. So it is a consequence of me being lazy to change the filament :)

I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"
I think this is the biggest problem. It looks too differently, some keys are at different positions (number keys shifted to the right, arrows keys completely different). The new layout is better but people do not know it. And people are afraid they would forget how to type on a standard keyboard when Kinesis Advantage is used most of the time. Every Kinesis user knows it is not an issue. Which is not helping much since these are the people who already converted to the right keyboard. And frankly, most people type very little and the keyboard just does not bother them.

And to be honest, Kinesis Advantage pinkie keys are not that good. Mine keyboard has them much better  ;D

Look at a simple thing like keyboard layout. We have many layouts better than QWERTY and there is no cost to change to them. And almost nobody does it anyway.

Therefore I think there is no need to be afraid somebody would try to enter contoured keyboard market in a big way. Instead they put one half of keys a bit more far away from the other half. Screw up arrow cluster even a more than it already is on a standard keyboard and call it Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard. But the ergonomics is only in the name and not in the shape or layout.

Vivalarevoluciůn is right. There is no competition. At least now. And I doubt it ever changes. Which is a pity.
Haha, that's a good excuse, I don't really mind the colors I just don't have anything that would match! 

You're right, going more public might not help as much as i thought because people type less. 

I do think there could be some benefits by getting the gaming crowd on board though.  Difficult to say if they'd like straight column keys though.


Offline incrediblemath

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #371 on: Tue, 16 February 2016, 23:20:51 »
I do think there could be some benefits by getting the gaming crowd on board though.  Difficult to say if they'd like straight column keys though.

My guess is the major issue with the gaming industry is sponsorship. The top-level/high-visibility players are sponsored, and using equipment from a competitor is likely a no-go. At least that's what I've seen with other sports. With so many big-name companies putting up big money, it'd be hard for an independent vendor to compete.

For the handful of FPS games I pay, I don't mind using the Advantage at all. I just map my movement to SDFC instead of WASD or ESDF... more comfortable for me that way.

Offline figit090

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #372 on: Tue, 16 February 2016, 23:50:20 »
I do think there could be some benefits by getting the gaming crowd on board though.  Difficult to say if they'd like straight column keys though.

My guess is the major issue with the gaming industry is sponsorship. The top-level/high-visibility players are sponsored, and using equipment from a competitor is likely a no-go. At least that's what I've seen with other sports. With so many big-name companies putting up big money, it'd be hard for an independent vendor to compete.

For the handful of FPS games I pay, I don't mind using the Advantage at all. I just map my movement to SDFC instead of WASD or ESDF... more comfortable for me that way.
Oh I mean casual gamers not crazy sponsorships.  Those people would probably start nitpicking n-key rollover and stuff like that but for long time players, I bet ergonomics could be used as a "winners ADVANTAGE."  (Couldn't help it sorry lol.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #373 on: Wed, 17 February 2016, 01:03:40 »
I donít think a Kinesis Advantage makes sense for game players. Itís too big and bulky.

Half a freestyle with MX (or similar) switches might be okay, but I doubt thereís much advantage compared to a standard 60% or TKL keyboard, since one hand is going to stay on the mouse, and therefore itís easy to reorient the keyboard whatever way is most comfortable even if itís one piece. In some cases might be a regression, as some game players probably reach their left hand across to use 7 Y H N and maybe U J.

Half a more ergonomic column-staggered keyboard, but maybe not as bulky or sculptured as the Advantage is, could be effective for them, but I donít see Kinesis making such a thing.

Offline figit090

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #374 on: Wed, 17 February 2016, 01:14:30 »
I donít think a Kinesis Advantage makes sense for game players. Itís too big and bulky.

Half a freestyle with MX (or similar) switches might be okay, but I doubt thereís much advantage compared to a standard 60% or TKL keyboard, since one hand is going to stay on the mouse, and therefore itís easy to reorient the keyboard whatever way is most comfortable even if itís one piece. In some cases might be a regression, as some game players probably reach their left hand across to use 7 Y H N and maybe U J.

Half a more ergonomic column-staggered keyboard, but maybe not as bulky or sculptured as the Advantage is, could be effective for them, but I donít see Kinesis making such a thing.
Very good points!  I agree.  Thanks for posting that I don't game much

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #375 on: Wed, 17 February 2016, 01:30:38 »
I donít play games much at all, especially not of the sort where keyboarding performance matters. I just have thought a lot about keyboard ergonomics, and watched other people playing games at a high level.

Offline vvp

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #376 on: Wed, 17 February 2016, 04:51:31 »
I play FPS games occasionally. I liked using Kinesis Advantage for playing. But I agree it is not much better than a standard keyboard. I would say the biggest advantage of Kinesis is the thumb cluster. More keys are easily available. Well the same is true for keywell too. But the point is that so many keys are not typically needed for gaming and the few keys needed can be placed around the home position. So Kinesis Advantage does not improve it much. I doubt I would buy it just for gaming. It is about $300 which sounds much for a game pad like thing. But I do not play much.

In my opinion, Kinesis Advantage is very good for typing. They should just improve the pinkie keys. And thumb cluster: put it nearer to the keywell (especially the Alt key), and of course make it 8 key cluster instead of 6. Uff, and split the keyboard!

When you already have Kinesis Advantage for typing then it is very nice for gaming too. But buying it for gaming only ... I do not know. It would require some very skill full marketing. And probably backlight LEDs, skull stickers and whatever the few wealthy young gamers may be attracted by  ;D

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #377 on: Thu, 18 February 2016, 13:03:52 »
I made my own keyboard in my free time over about 20 months instead of waiting for the new Kinesis Advantage. But there is a big difference between one prototype and a ready to sell product.  I'm not surprised it takes about 4 years to get it out. That is the reason I started my project in December 2013. I was reasonably confident I'll have it done long before I could buy the new Kinesis Advantage :)

You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.
Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool. 

I have to disagree with no rush when competition isn't around.  The fact there is no competition is scary because that means opportunity.  Imagine if Microsoft took a leap into the true ergo market with a contoured board?  They could easily do it and they'd have their split 'ergo' board fans already interested.

I think small companies need to sweat to stay on top and be REALLY proactive.  Imagine if Kinesis had a bigger presence online and such?  Pander to gamers a bit or at least get up every corporate nose possible to sell contoured boards? 

Maybe they do, and I actually think they do, but I just hope things are going well.  Instagram is a good avenue they could pursue. Their products and customer service are top notch, I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"

Someday!


We've also had a number of other projects being worked on at the same time, and we are a very small company (~12 employees) so resources/time is a factor (Bluetooth Freestyle2, mechanical Freestyle/gaming keyboard, our foot switches went through a major overhaul (which are a big seller for us), etc.). With that said, I agree with your points. We are going to launch a couple new products this year and we'll see how people respond to the mechanical Freestyle (hopefully really well since we sell much more Freestyle keyboards than our Contoured keyboards).
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 February 2016, 13:05:54 by natas206 »

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #378 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 00:30:25 »
I'm anticipating cutting the new and improved Advantage into 2 halves...I hope it will be possible with the changes that are being made.


I may need Kinesis to assist in the project :)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline jorpz

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #379 on: Tue, 23 February 2016, 13:37:00 »
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop  :-[

I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #380 on: Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:00:52 »
As a follow up:

I'm looking forward to the Advantage 2, and based on what I've heard I'm guessing I'll be getting one or more.

I'm also going to split it...but this time I'll do it differently. I may enlist the help of Kinesis, Input Club, other GH members and whomever else needed to make the split clean, professional, not an endless project, and possibly upgrade from even what improvements Kinesis is making. The split will be caseless, which is the final mod I was going to do on mine. I'm not investing any more time/effort into my mod since the new model is being released.

The big items will be splitting into 2 halves, integrated pointing device (I hope to find better than the TrackPoint I now use, PBT keycaps (I hope someone has been working on this), and caseless.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #381 on: Wed, 24 February 2016, 15:48:28 »
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop  :-[

I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.

Is the win7 USB 3.0 driver issue? If so, you know we can send you a work-around for that right? Just email tech@kinesis.com and we'll send you out a kit (assuming the BIOS options aren't available on your work computer). 

No date on the new Adv2.

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #382 on: Wed, 24 February 2016, 15:51:29 »
As a follow up:

I'm looking forward to the Advantage 2, and based on what I've heard I'm guessing I'll be getting one or more.

I'm also going to split it...but this time I'll do it differently. I may enlist the help of Kinesis, Input Club, other GH members and whomever else needed to make the split clean, professional, not an endless project, and possibly upgrade from even what improvements Kinesis is making. The split will be caseless, which is the final mod I was going to do on mine. I'm not investing any more time/effort into my mod since the new model is being released.

The big items will be splitting into 2 halves, integrated pointing device (I hope to find better than the TrackPoint I now use, PBT keycaps (I hope someone has been working on this), and caseless.


Cool, can't wait to see the end result. After we get out the new model/electronics, we can focus more on potential options of the Advantage, perhaps even a split version. 

Offline jorpz

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #383 on: Wed, 24 February 2016, 15:59:12 »
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop  :-[

I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.

Is the win7 USB 3.0 driver issue? If so, you know we can send you a work-around for that right? Just email tech@kinesis.com and we'll send you out a kit (assuming the BIOS options aren't available on your work computer). 

No date on the new Adv2.

Thanks for the prompt response! And yes, it is the Win 7 USB 3.0 issue. The work laptop I use doesn't have a PS/2 port if that's the solution  :( Also a side note - we use a docking station with multiple USB 3.0 connections. I spoke with IT and they were not in favor of messing with the BIOS.
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 February 2016, 16:06:52 by jorpz »

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #384 on: Wed, 24 February 2016, 18:16:06 »
As a follow up:

I'm looking forward to the Advantage 2, and based on what I've heard I'm guessing I'll be getting one or more.

I'm also going to split it...but this time I'll do it differently. I may enlist the help of Kinesis, Input Club, other GH members and whomever else needed to make the split clean, professional, not an endless project, and possibly upgrade from even what improvements Kinesis is making. The split will be caseless, which is the final mod I was going to do on mine. I'm not investing any more time/effort into my mod since the new model is being released.

The big items will be splitting into 2 halves, integrated pointing device (I hope to find better than the TrackPoint I now use, PBT keycaps (I hope someone has been working on this), and caseless.


Cool, can't wait to see the end result. After we get out the new model/electronics, we can focus more on potential options of the Advantage, perhaps even a split version. 

My motivation to go 'over the top' and invest more into splitting the Advantage 2 and involve others is fueled by what I consider the tremendous success I have had with the original split Advantage, the integrated TrackPoint, and the real keys in place of the 'rubber-nubby F keys. Also, since I did split the Advantage in 2009-10, there has been a progressive and impressive degree of enthusiast technical development and innovation. In 2009 I didn't have many options for various mods, now in 2016 the question is "Who do I choose to involve and for which mods?".

Exciting times in the keyboard enthusiast world!
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
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Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #385 on: Thu, 25 February 2016, 11:57:00 »
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop  :-[

I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.

Is the win7 USB 3.0 driver issue? If so, you know we can send you a work-around for that right? Just email tech@kinesis.com and we'll send you out a kit (assuming the BIOS options aren't available on your work computer). 

No date on the new Adv2.

Thanks for the prompt response! And yes, it is the Win 7 USB 3.0 issue. The work laptop I use doesn't have a PS/2 port if that's the solution  :( Also a side note - we use a docking station with multiple USB 3.0 connections. I spoke with IT and they were not in favor of messing with the BIOS.

That's fine, you won't need a PS/2 port. The "cable conversion kit" includes a main PS/2 cable and a PS/2 to USB adaptor, so the end result you'll still be connecting to a USB port on your laptop. By installing the PS/2 cable directly to the main circuit board (which is native PS/2 anyway), you will be bypassing our USB daughterboard/USB hub, which is really out-dated and is what the USB 3.0 driver on win7 has a compatibility issue with. By taking this component out of the equation, your keyboard will work perfectly fine with the USB adaptor we provide (the 2-port USB hub in the back of the keyboard will be disabled though) and you can connect either to your docking station or directly to the laptop. Just PM me your name/address and I'll put in today's mail for you, or send an email to tech@kinesis.com
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 February 2016, 11:58:48 by natas206 »

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #386 on: Thu, 25 February 2016, 12:01:07 »
As a follow up:

I'm looking forward to the Advantage 2, and based on what I've heard I'm guessing I'll be getting one or more.

I'm also going to split it...but this time I'll do it differently. I may enlist the help of Kinesis, Input Club, other GH members and whomever else needed to make the split clean, professional, not an endless project, and possibly upgrade from even what improvements Kinesis is making. The split will be caseless, which is the final mod I was going to do on mine. I'm not investing any more time/effort into my mod since the new model is being released.

The big items will be splitting into 2 halves, integrated pointing device (I hope to find better than the TrackPoint I now use, PBT keycaps (I hope someone has been working on this), and caseless.


Cool, can't wait to see the end result. After we get out the new model/electronics, we can focus more on potential options of the Advantage, perhaps even a split version. 

My motivation to go 'over the top' and invest more into splitting the Advantage 2 and involve others is fueled by what I consider the tremendous success I have had with the original split Advantage, the integrated TrackPoint, and the real keys in place of the 'rubber-nubby F keys. Also, since I did split the Advantage in 2009-10, there has been a progressive and impressive degree of enthusiast technical development and innovation. In 2009 I didn't have many options for various mods, now in 2016 the question is "Who do I choose to involve and for which mods?".

Exciting times in the keyboard enthusiast world!


It really is amazing how much the keyboard modding community has grown over the past 3-5 years isn't it?!

Offline jorpz

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #387 on: Thu, 25 February 2016, 17:44:23 »
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop  :-[

I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.

Is the win7 USB 3.0 driver issue? If so, you know we can send you a work-around for that right? Just email tech@kinesis.com and we'll send you out a kit (assuming the BIOS options aren't available on your work computer). 

No date on the new Adv2.

Thanks for the prompt response! And yes, it is the Win 7 USB 3.0 issue. The work laptop I use doesn't have a PS/2 port if that's the solution  :( Also a side note - we use a docking station with multiple USB 3.0 connections. I spoke with IT and they were not in favor of messing with the BIOS.

That's fine, you won't need a PS/2 port. The "cable conversion kit" includes a main PS/2 cable and a PS/2 to USB adaptor, so the end result you'll still be connecting to a USB port on your laptop. By installing the PS/2 cable directly to the main circuit board (which is native PS/2 anyway), you will be bypassing our USB daughterboard/USB hub, which is really out-dated and is what the USB 3.0 driver on win7 has a compatibility issue with. By taking this component out of the equation, your keyboard will work perfectly fine with the USB adaptor we provide (the 2-port USB hub in the back of the keyboard will be disabled though) and you can connect either to your docking station or directly to the laptop. Just PM me your name/address and I'll put in today's mail for you, or send an email to tech@kinesis.com

That's awesome news! Thanks so much for the clarification.

Offline jorpz

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #388 on: Wed, 09 March 2016, 13:08:47 »
Hey all, I just got my Advantage up and running at work and it's great. However, being an accountant,  I use excel pretty heavily almost every day. I'm wondering how some of you have adapted to using the control keys in excel (or whatever you're working in). I'm having a very hard time adapting to the position of the control key and my productivity in excel is plummeting. Also the position of the arrow keys is really throwing me off. Any suggestions? Maybe I need to remap the keys to something else? I'm also considering trying out the Freestyle 2 to see if that's a bit more accommodating. 

Thanks for any suggestions.

Offline Lanx

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #389 on: Fri, 11 March 2016, 10:23:38 »
In short, you'll get used to it, especially the stupid arrow keys, you really should think about a numpad since you're an accountant tho. And if you have any issues, just remap, always common to remap ctrl to caps lock.

Offline dusanx

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #390 on: Mon, 14 March 2016, 04:06:35 »
Also the position of the arrow keys is really throwing me off. Any suggestions?

Stock advantage, looking at bottom two rows (left and right) look like this:
` \ Left Right     Up Down [ ]

Use key puller to replace keys and redefine them to:
` \ [ ]       Left Down Up Right

This way you have all the arrow keys on one hand. Does all the difference.

Offline hoggy

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #391 on: Mon, 14 March 2016, 08:55:09 »
Hey all, I just got my Advantage up and running at work and it's great. However, being an accountant,  I use excel pretty heavily almost every day. I'm wondering how some of you have adapted to using the control keys in excel (or whatever you're working in). I'm having a very hard time adapting to the position of the control key and my productivity in excel is plummeting. Also the position of the arrow keys is really throwing me off. Any suggestions? Maybe I need to remap the keys to something else? I'm also considering trying out the Freestyle 2 to see if that's a bit more accommodating. 

Thanks for any suggestions.

It took me a while to get used to the position of the cursor keys, but now I'm used to them, I love where they are.  They are very much worth the effort.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline sordna

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #392 on: Tue, 15 March 2016, 14:22:12 »
I swap Up/Down only, to match the VI editor's j/k (index finger for down, middle for up).
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #393 on: Fri, 18 March 2016, 15:45:27 »
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 March 2016, 18:19:10 by natas206 »

Offline sordna

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #394 on: Sat, 19 March 2016, 11:56:57 »
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.

I am interested but use Linux and OSX. And an Avocent USB KVM. Can I participate?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline natas206

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #395 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 14:52:04 »
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.

I am interested but use Linux and OSX. And an Avocent USB KVM. Can I participate?

We can probably get you in on the next round of beta testers (assuming there is a next round) since right now we're trying to focus on Windows (the last wave of beta testers were all Linux/Mac users). Send me a a new email so I can get you on the new list. 

Offline DvorakDachshund

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #396 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 19:02:14 »
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.

I'm on Windows Server 2012 R2 if you happen to need a tester for that (basically Windows 2008) :D
Current keyboard Kinesis Advantage Pro Metallic.

Offline hoggy

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #397 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 02:06:37 »
I'd love to help, but I'm not in the US (sad face). 

Hope the beta testing goes well.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline coniurare

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #398 on: Sun, 27 March 2016, 11:25:13 »
I'd love to help, but I'm not in the US (sad face). 

Hope the beta testing goes well.

Yeah, would have been cool if people outside the US could have participated too. But the shipping is probably too expensive. Although I mainly use Windows 7 and Linux, I also have Windows 10 for testing purposes around. But it's awesome that after 4 years (ok, 3 years and some months) of following this thread the release of the Advantage 2 is near. Love my beat up Advantage that I bought from a co worker a few years back.
« Last Edit: Sun, 27 March 2016, 11:56:30 by coniurare »

Offline ergomech

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Re: Suggestions for Advantage keyboard
« Reply #399 on: Fri, 01 April 2016, 11:28:42 »
Without a doubt: option of between 20g to 30g activation force keys. The datahand used 18g and it is the most ergo keyboard ever. Making fingers strain more with extra force required is crazy.