Post by: Arhipio on Sun, 01 April 2018, 14:22:44
Hey everyone we've been doing our homework and we're happy to finally announce our biggest project ever. We call it HuB. A profile that brings the aesthetic of classical spherical top keycaps with the comfortable profiling of the ever iconic cherry sculpt. The keycaps will be double-shot, injection molded, ABS plastic and feature high quality molds with thick walls. We are partnering with industry veterans in plastic engineering who have backgrounds in Mattel, Apple and the aerospace industry.
This is where we need your help we need to raise 500k for tooling, molds, storage and materials. Our cheapest pledge lets you choose 1 colorway out of the 12 sets we offer at only $50. The basekit offers 156 key coverage. We have many more options including one that offers you all 12 keycap sets for only $300.
If you have any interest in this project please read through the kickstarter page as we go into much more detail there.
We want to revolutionize the keycap game and offer enthusiast grade keycaps for cheap. We hope you believe in us as much as we do in this project.
80s KID, one of the 12 sets offered:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1369/4793/files/NEW-GALLERY13.png?v=1522885907)
The Hub Profile:
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/670/400/64f9849a2ac84d6174c16ea7bc6bd37c_original.png?w=680&fit=max&v=1522040735&auto=format&lossless=true&s=3f4a906291d9f114e367e6cc8f415c9e)
Side Profile View:
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/798/287/6867f52d6b8d5e6e94a7695a65332980_original.png?w=680&fit=max&v=1523020720&auto=format&lossless=true&s=c1f4ce53326173605f5909aa640fb3e7)
156 Key Coverage:
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/745/366/93d7f7f605a6b2af82abdaa80287d2a0_original.png?w=680&fit=max&v=1522633000&auto=format&lossless=true&s=937b7f3bfbc24cbaf5a748ba4067daa2)
Link to Kickstarter page:
Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps?ref=3nyt34)
Link to more detailed info:
HuB info (https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub)
Render Gallery (https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub_gallery)
Show your support by using our banners!
Standard
(https://i.imgur.com/FnQdagS.png)
80s KID
(https://i.imgur.com/8XHf3Uh.png)
Royal
(https://i.imgur.com/EvKft0x.png)
Heart
(https://i.imgur.com/RJ9Dwfs.png)
Go to:
Profile -> Forum Profile -> Signature
Under signature copy and paste one of these of your choice:
Standard:
Code: [Select]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps?ref=3nyt34][img]https://i.imgur.com/FnQdagS.png[/img][/url]80s KID:
Code: [Select]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps?ref=3nyt34][img]https://i.imgur.com/8XHf3Uh.png[/img][/url]Royal:
Code: [Select]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps?ref=3nyt34][img]https://i.imgur.com/EvKft0x.png[/img][/url]Heart:
Code: [Select]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps?ref=3nyt34][img]https://i.imgur.com/RJ9Dwfs.png[/img][/url]And then to finish it hit the "Change Profile" button on the bottom
Post by: Arhipio on Sun, 01 April 2018, 22:08:16
(https://i.imgur.com/Be1K6sb.png)
Post by: Signature on Tue, 03 April 2018, 05:59:46
Post by: phorx on Tue, 03 April 2018, 12:06:12
Post by: AMongoose on Tue, 03 April 2018, 12:09:51
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 03 April 2018, 12:48:03
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: xondat on Tue, 03 April 2018, 13:11:37
I'm interested in supporting, but I don't want to feel like I'm throwing money at a few people and hoping for the best.
Post by: evangs on Tue, 03 April 2018, 13:28:00
Is there an approximate breakdown of where the $500,000 goes?
I'm interested in supporting, but I don't want to feel like I'm throwing money at a few people and hoping for the best.
Most of it is going to the molds and then the rest will go to the keycap production for the 12 sets. The molds we are planning to make are very expensive, primarily because of the sculpted nature. we have a total of 30 unique models that comprise this keycap set.
Post by: PRkeys on Tue, 03 April 2018, 13:29:23
Post by: Out_of_diplomacy on Tue, 03 April 2018, 13:50:37
Post by: evangs on Tue, 03 April 2018, 13:52:48
Just wanted to note my support. I am in for 6 sets. :thumb:
Pledged for 1 keycap set. They look amazing. Good luck
thank you so much!
Post by: xondat on Tue, 03 April 2018, 13:56:42
Is there an approximate breakdown of where the $500,000 goes?
I'm interested in supporting, but I don't want to feel like I'm throwing money at a few people and hoping for the best.
Most of it is going to the molds and then the rest will go to the keycap production for the 12 sets. The molds we are planning to make are very expensive, primarily because of the sculpted nature. we have a total of 30 unique models that comprise this keycap set.
So around 80% for molds/tooling, and 20% for production/storage?
I must be wrong, but if there are 156 different keys, is that 156 different molds? Just 30 different molds if the keys were blank?
Post by: ChitownM2 on Tue, 03 April 2018, 16:14:05
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 03 April 2018, 16:23:27
In the top down view drawing (similar style to GMK illustration to show which keys you are getting) the modifiers have teal text color. But if you scroll down in the page then you see the 3D drawing the modifiers have white text color.
Just wondering which is it? Personally I like teal text color (more consistent).
Thanks!
Post by: evangs on Tue, 03 April 2018, 16:31:35
There are some confusion with the Midnight colorway.
In the top down view drawing (similar style to GMK illustration to show which keys you are getting) the modifiers have teal text color. But if you scroll down in the page then you see the 3D drawing the modifiers have white text color.
Just wondering which is it? Personally I like teal text color (more consistent).
Thanks!
the color map top down image will be most accurate. we are working on updated renders that more accurately reflect these details.
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 03 April 2018, 16:53:31
There are some confusion with the Midnight colorway.
In the top down view drawing (similar style to GMK illustration to show which keys you are getting) the modifiers have teal text color. But if you scroll down in the page then you see the 3D drawing the modifiers have white text color.
Just wondering which is it? Personally I like teal text color (more consistent).
Thanks!
the color map top down image will be most accurate. we are working on updated renders that more accurately reflect these details.
lol sweet that's my preferred color choice too, thanks evan!
EDIT: Sorry another question, I notice there are 2 "Pit Stop" ($50 or more), is there any difference aside from the 2nd one seems like a better choice?
Post by: Parva Ovis on Tue, 03 April 2018, 16:57:51
Darn, I preferred the white legends. Teal feels redundant to me since 80s Kid already has that look.There are some confusion with the Midnight colorway.
In the top down view drawing (similar style to GMK illustration to show which keys you are getting) the modifiers have teal text color. But if you scroll down in the page then you see the 3D drawing the modifiers have white text color.
Just wondering which is it? Personally I like teal text color (more consistent).
Thanks!
the color map top down image will be most accurate. we are working on updated renders that more accurately reflect these details.
Post by: PRkeys on Tue, 03 April 2018, 17:41:38
Darn, I preferred the white legends. Teal feels redundant to me since 80s Kid already has that look.I was thinking the same. The whiter legends would help with matching the modifiers with other sets and them already being available in 80's kid.
Post by: phorx on Tue, 03 April 2018, 18:09:50
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 03 April 2018, 18:19:01
We added top down renders for all the keysets.
Check out the album here:
https://imgur.com/a/P9yUz
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 03 April 2018, 18:24:18
I wish the legends were text rather than icons. It’s makes it tougher for my kids to use these caps, which makes it tougher for my wife to accept me buying them :rolleyes:
If the kickstarter goes through we will have the base molds. With a future groupbuy we can then create text icon molds at a much cheaper price since the majority of the molds have been made. This applies to everything, centered legends, blanks, novelties... the list goes on.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Tue, 03 April 2018, 18:31:18
I wish the legends were text rather than icons. It’s makes it tougher for my kids to use these caps, which makes it tougher for my wife to accept me buying them :rolleyes:
If the kickstarter goes through we will have the base molds. With a future groupbuy we can then create text icon molds at a much cheaper price since the majority of the molds have been made. This applies to everything, centered legends, blanks, novelties... the list goes on.
Icon mods FTW!!
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Tue, 03 April 2018, 18:32:39
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 03 April 2018, 18:38:19
We need a HuB banner so we can promote the Kickstarter in our sigs
I just hit up our art director, we'll get one up soon. I'll make an update with instructions on how to set it up.
Post by: Parva Ovis on Tue, 03 April 2018, 19:06:44
HuBdate #2 (4.3.18)Is there an album for the rest of the 1080p versions like the ones at https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub_gallery (https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub_gallery)?
We added top down renders for all the keysets.
Check out the album here:
https://imgur.com/a/P9yUz
Post by: dsaf on Tue, 03 April 2018, 19:10:50
Also the concept art for Laguna is not consistent with the top-down render - red key seems not to be included.
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 03 April 2018, 21:00:39
HuBdate #2 (4.3.18)Is there an album for the rest of the 1080p versions like the ones at https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub_gallery (https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub_gallery)?
We added top down renders for all the keysets.
Check out the album here:
https://imgur.com/a/P9yUz
I believe it is being worked on :D
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Tue, 03 April 2018, 21:05:31
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 03 April 2018, 21:09:54
Why does Skidata not look like Skidata? Why did you make the modifiers gray and alphas black?
Just to mix it up a bit, we just thought the reverse/anti dolch looked nice.
Post by: xondat on Tue, 03 April 2018, 21:26:06
Is there an approximate breakdown of where the $500,000 goes?
I'm interested in supporting, but I don't want to feel like I'm throwing money at a few people and hoping for the best.
Most of it is going to the molds and then the rest will go to the keycap production for the 12 sets. The molds we are planning to make are very expensive, primarily because of the sculpted nature. we have a total of 30 unique models that comprise this keycap set.
So around 80% for molds/tooling, and 20% for production/storage?
I must be wrong, but if there are 156 different keys, is that 156 different molds? Just 30 different molds if the keys were blank?
I think my comment got drowned out, any words on it?
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Tue, 03 April 2018, 21:32:46
Why does Skidata not look like Skidata? Why did you make the modifiers gray and alphas black?
Just to mix it up a bit, we just thought the reverse/anti dolch looked nice.
Reverse dolch is not Skidata though...
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 01:56:55
Hey everyone just got the banner made from our art director 2zq :D.
(https://i.imgur.com/FnQdagS.png)
If you want to apply the banner and help support us...
Go to:
Profile -> Forum Profile -> Signature
Under signature copy and paste this
Code: [Select]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps?ref=3nyt34][img]https://i.imgur.com/FnQdagS.png[/img][/url]And then to finish it hit the "Change Profile" button on the bottom
Post by: PRkeys on Wed, 04 April 2018, 02:27:13
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 02:42:09
Nice. Mine is set
Amazing!
Post by: KaosJ on Wed, 04 April 2018, 04:39:41
Post by: ptiede on Wed, 04 April 2018, 08:53:17
Post by: dsaf on Wed, 04 April 2018, 09:21:40
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 11:42:06
Will wait for more info / feedback before backing a specific tier. Cool banner though.
What info are you looking for?
Post by: MaNiFeX on Wed, 04 April 2018, 11:49:28
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Wed, 04 April 2018, 11:54:59
Post by: phorx on Wed, 04 April 2018, 12:04:08
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 12:17:19
Maybe I missed it somewhere... how will these packaged? Just in bags? Some kind of tray or box?I believe we are doing bags, but in the future we may produce vacuformed trays similar to gmk.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 12:18:07
Awesome sculpts. At $500k, that's about 10,000 sets. A monumental group buy. :eek: Good luck, I hope you get there! :thumb:Thanks a ton, spread the word. I believe once we get to higher numbers the rate at which people will join will start ramping up.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 12:18:49
I'm just glad that it runs for two months. Makes it easier to get the money together for a bunch of setsHehe that was the intent. Kickstarter also doesn't collect until the end, so joining as soon as possible helps us a ton.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: evangs on Wed, 04 April 2018, 14:16:52
Maybe I missed it somewhere... how will these packaged? Just in bags? Some kind of tray or box?
plastic bag inside a box. each set in it's own box
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 14:57:16
Post by: dsaf on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:18:27
Will wait for more info / feedback before backing a specific tier. Cool banner though.
What info are you looking for?
Sorry, as asked above:
1) Can Paperwork get colour keys for the right-side ctrl-alt-win cluster for TKLs? Unless buying two sets the only way there will be to get this?
2) Also the concept art for Laguna is not consistent with the top-down render - red key seems not to be included?
[attach=1]
Post by: dsaf on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:23:28
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:24:49
Will wait for more info / feedback before backing a specific tier. Cool banner though.
What info are you looking for?
Sorry, as asked above:
1) Can Paperwork get colour keys for the right-side ctrl-alt-win cluster for TKLs? Unless buying two sets the only way there will be to get this?
2) Also the concept art for Laguna is not consistent with the top-down render - red key seems not to be included?
(Attachment Link)
The top-down renders are the accurate ones, we're working on producing renders that match those sets correctly.
We are actually removing the pastel mods but here is what evan had to say on the matter on reddit:
(https://i.imgur.com/StySHvg.png)
Post by: funderburker on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:25:59
Went for the 3 pack. Getting Skidata for sure and then I just can't decide yet... :'(
Post by: MatchstickMan on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:31:55
Post by: evangs on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:35:40
Good luck with Kickstarter! It's a bold goal to reach but hopefully community as whole will come together and make this a reality.
Went for the 3 pack. Getting Skidata for sure and then I just can't decide yet... :'(
I will be releasing a tool very soon that should be able to help you decide :D
Post by: dsaf on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:40:12
We are actually removing the pastel mods but here is what evan had to say on the matter on reddit:
Thanks for answering. Isn't this kind of dangerous when the campaign is already running? Anyway, will probably go for a 3-pack once it stabilises a bit.
Post by: KaosJ on Wed, 04 April 2018, 15:54:40
Good luck with Kickstarter! It's a bold goal to reach but hopefully community as whole will come together and make this a reality.
Went for the 3 pack. Getting Skidata for sure and then I just can't decide yet... :'(
I will be releasing a tool very soon that should be able to help you decide :D
It is also possible to have the color code or pantone near each color of each set? e.g. on Cyan it's hard to tell which one is the same of the cyan of another set. That would be useful for me for mixing the sets later (so also for picking now)
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 17:01:28
Good luck with Kickstarter! It's a bold goal to reach but hopefully community as whole will come together and make this a reality.
Went for the 3 pack. Getting Skidata for sure and then I just can't decide yet... :'(
Thanks for the support man :D
Post by: PRkeys on Wed, 04 April 2018, 17:07:10
The top-down renders are the accurate ones, we're working on producing renders that match those sets correctly.Guys, we are all in for the ride with you but be careful with all these changes as the message is getting very blurred out. I know you are trying to incorporate a lot of feedback but at some very near point you need to lock things down.
We are actually removing the pastel mods but here is what evan had to say on the matter on reddit:
You are saying the top renders are now the accurate ones yet in the next line adding that the PW color mods will be also removed. Paperwork is one of the flagship sets here and the pastel mods are what make it unique. People may expect a good reason for that big of a change vs other smaller changes (e.g. bringing the overall goal down or compatibility added) or they will start to question why this wasn't factored already in the original release.
Those who have pledged may not be seeing any of the changes and get mad at the end or stop taking you seriously.
My humble suggestion is to:
1. Lock things down. Make sure you update KS and your own site materials with the accurate color ways.
2. Ensure you punched your number$ correctly in your calculator so there are no surprises down the road on the cost given what changed.
3. Update all the current backers on what was decided.
4. Forget about future possible colorways and ideas and move on to full marketing mode on this campaign. This is an enormous goal and you can't expect the current rate to be maintained for the full 60 days. There needs to be a plan with activity almost daily to reach those of us who are less active around these forums. If it wasn't because I am on Evan's email DL I would have no idea this is going on.
+Use us the backers to spread the message out by providing materials like the banners and other avenues. Make people feel this is a team effort to accomplish like what you are doing in the Instagram stories.
+Get on all the MK shows an blogs. Some very targeted ads on platforms like Facebook where you know you can reach MK enthusiasts.
+Reach those gaming kids that own Razr keyboards and show them a way they can cheaply customize their keyboard. You will need to extend beyond this smaller community to reach your numbers.
Get your interested supporters organized with Discord, slack channels or some other single point of contact to get things moving faster and take some weight off your shoulders. People should not be just wishing this tips over but working to make it happen. :thumb:
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 17:10:19
Love it! Are touch faces smooth like SA or textured?
They will be smooth like SA
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 17:18:52
The top-down renders are the accurate ones, we're working on producing renders that match those sets correctly.Guys, we are all in for the ride with you but be careful with all these changes as the message is getting very blurred out. I know you are trying to incorporate a lot of feedback but at some very near point you need to lock things down.
We are actually removing the pastel mods but here is what evan had to say on the matter on reddit:
You are saying the top renders are now the accurate ones yet in the next line adding that the PW color mods will be also removed. Paperwork is one of the flagship sets here and the pastel mods are what make it unique. People may expect a good reason for that big of a change vs other smaller changes (e.g. bringing the overall goal down or compatibility added) or they will start to question why this wasn't factored already in the original release.
Those who have pledged may not be seeing any of the changes and get mad at the end or stop taking you seriously.
My humble suggestion is to:
1. Lock things down. Make sure you update KS and your own site materials with the accurate color ways.
2. Ensure you punched your number$ correctly in your calculator so there are no surprises down the road on the cost given what changed.
3. Update all the current backers on what was decided.
4. Forget about future possible colorways and ideas and move on to full marketing mode on this campaign. This is an enormous goal and you can't expect the current rate to be maintained for the full 60 days. There needs to be a plan with activity almost daily to reach those of us who are less active around these forums. If it wasn't because I am on Evan's email DL I would have no idea this is going on.
+Use us the backers to spread the message out by providing materials like the banners and other avenues. Make people feel this is a team effort to accomplish like what you are doing in the Instagram stories.
+Get on all the MK shows an blogs. Some very targeted ads on platforms like Facebook where you know you can reach MK enthusiasts.
+Reach those gaming kids that own Razr keyboards and show them a way they can cheaply customize their keyboard. You will need to extend beyond this smaller community to reach your numbers.
Get your interested supporters organized with Discord, slack channels or some other single point of contact to get things moving faster and take some weight off your shoulders. People should not be just wishing this tips over but working to make it happen. :thumb:
We are aware, we're currently trying to lock down everything and then go into full advertising mode. Once everything is finalized about our changes we will make an official update on kickstarter and reddit. We are currently planning to release daily reddit posts with updates, renders and what not to get people's attention. GH will be constantly updated simultaneously. We're hoping the banners on GH will also spread the news. We are currently in contact with multiple popular tech articles to try and get posts up there. We have also reached out to Input Club and OLKB to spread the news to their customers. All the while maintaining GH, reddit and massdrop threads. I'm personally in the back of my head trying to figure out new ways of spreading info, we are possibly going to host a contest to try and get everyone involved.
You are right this is a community effort and we want to make it feel that way. Thank you all so much, we are working our butts off to try and spread the news. Please spread the news to anyone you know, word of mouth is extremely powerful. Meanwhile we will search for new creative avenues to inform people on the project.
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 17:20:13
Good luck with Kickstarter! It's a bold goal to reach but hopefully community as whole will come together and make this a reality.
Went for the 3 pack. Getting Skidata for sure and then I just can't decide yet... :'(
I will be releasing a tool very soon that should be able to help you decide :D
It is also possible to have the color code or pantone near each color of each set? e.g. on Cyan it's hard to tell which one is the same of the cyan of another set. That would be useful for me for mixing the sets later (so also for picking now)
We are releasing an interactive tool for mix and matching of sets. Hopefully that will help this :)
Post by: MatchstickMan on Wed, 04 April 2018, 18:15:53
They will be smooth like SA
YESSSSSS, I'm in!
Post by: Visionaire on Wed, 04 April 2018, 18:21:02
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 18:32:50
They will be smooth like SA
YESSSSSS, I'm in!
I'm in for all 12 sets. Let's do this.
Let's do this!
Post by: PRkeys on Wed, 04 April 2018, 18:54:23
Great to see that! We see you guys are working non stop. Get some rest too.
We are aware, we're currently trying to lock down everything and then go into full advertising mode. Once everything is finalized about our changes we will make an official update on kickstarter and reddit. We are currently planning to release daily reddit posts with updates, renders and what not to get people's attention. GH will be constantly updated simultaneously. We're hoping the banners on GH will also spread the news. We are currently in contact with multiple popular tech articles to try and get posts up there. We have also reached out to Input Club and OLKB to spread the news to their customers. All the while maintaining GH, reddit and massdrop threads. I'm personally in the back of my head trying to figure out new ways of spreading info, we are possibly going to host a contest to try and get everyone involved.
You are right this is a community effort and we want to make it feel that way. Thank you all so much, we are working our butts off to try and spread the news. Please spread the news to anyone you know, word of mouth is extremely powerful. Meanwhile we will search for new creative avenues to inform people on the project.
Post by: KaosJ on Wed, 04 April 2018, 19:02:30
Good luck with Kickstarter! It's a bold goal to reach but hopefully community as whole will come together and make this a reality.
Went for the 3 pack. Getting Skidata for sure and then I just can't decide yet... :'(
I will be releasing a tool very soon that should be able to help you decide :D
It is also possible to have the color code or pantone near each color of each set? e.g. on Cyan it's hard to tell which one is the same of the cyan of another set. That would be useful for me for mixing the sets later (so also for picking now)
We are releasing an interactive tool for mix and matching of sets. Hopefully that will help this :)
Well that would be perfect! :D
Post by: Visionaire on Wed, 04 April 2018, 20:38:44
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 04 April 2018, 20:51:33
Hopefully you guys can find some love from some other publications like the I:C kira did too... do you have some leads out to the press?
The prototypes are on their way to a writer from tested.com hopefully we see some coverage from them soon :)
Post by: howj on Thu, 05 April 2018, 00:04:44
In any case, it looks like it's a long way to the intended goal, given that it's all or nothing!
Post by: PotatoTM on Thu, 05 April 2018, 00:30:56
Post by: Arhipio on Thu, 05 April 2018, 00:46:09
I wish I could buy more key-sets but right now I can really only afford one. Might upgrade my pledge in a month or so if my situation changes.
In any case, it looks like it's a long way to the intended goal, given that it's all or nothing!
I appreciate any support, it all helps our goal. :thumb:
Post by: Arhipio on Thu, 05 April 2018, 00:47:02
I'm in for 3 sets, maybe later on il join for more! More competition in the keycap market is always a good thing. GL with funding.
Appreciate it my man, we think more competition is good too :)
Post by: hgoel89 on Thu, 05 April 2018, 07:13:05
Post by: evangs on Thu, 05 April 2018, 08:23:53
Is ergodox support available in current set? If not, would there be option for future release?
That question has been answered in the faq https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps/faqs (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thevankeyboards/hub-mechanical-keyboard-key-caps/faqs)
Post by: Data on Thu, 05 April 2018, 08:25:36
Post by: ptiede on Thu, 05 April 2018, 08:52:16
Hi guys. I don't completely understand what you're going for with this sculpt. Could you lay it out in a little more detail? Maybe include the sculpt angle for each row? Still trying to wrap my head around it...I'm pretty sure the sculpt is identical to cherry profile but with spherical tops.
Post by: Data on Thu, 05 April 2018, 09:07:46
Hi guys. I don't completely understand what you're going for with this sculpt. Could you lay it out in a little more detail? Maybe include the sculpt angle for each row? Still trying to wrap my head around it...I'm pretty sure the sculpt is identical to cherry profile but with spherical tops.
I dunno, man. I'm not seeing Cherry profile in this drawing.
(https://i.imgur.com/gXbKizw.png)
It even kinda looks like Row 1 is inverted away from the user slightly. Just looking for a little clarification.
Post by: ptiede on Thu, 05 April 2018, 09:26:09
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69133.0;attach=91703;image)
Also of you look at the comments thread in the Kickstarter, I asked Evan that question and he said it was developed to mimic cherry.
[edit typos]
Post by: ptiede on Thu, 05 April 2018, 09:31:26
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 05 April 2018, 09:35:10
Post by: evangs on Thu, 05 April 2018, 09:41:33
There are five rows on a profile, changing one of them is not exactly a minor change.
Hi! I had modelled the bottom row similar to cherry but during my testing I found that a flat bottom row fit the set much better. The other rows are similar to cherry, but of course have spherical tops. I'll try and pull some number data from the models tonight.
Post by: evangs on Thu, 05 April 2018, 09:42:28
https://hub.thevankeyboards.com/ (https://hub.thevankeyboards.com/)
I put this little webapp together last night to let people experiment with the different HuB sets mix and matchability.
By simply adjusting the drop downs you can come up with all sorts of neat combinations.
I can't wait to see what you come up with!
To share your creations you can do a screen capture (mac: shift + ctrl + cmd + 4 or windows: shift + win + s). Be sure to include the drop downs so others can see your recipe.
Sincerely,
Evan
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 05 April 2018, 10:28:18
Hello!Ugh, my work firewall is blocking it due to some security reason. Will try it at home.
https://hub.thevankeyboards.com/ (https://hub.thevankeyboards.com/)
...
Evan
Post by: Unforgivable on Thu, 05 April 2018, 10:36:04
Post by: evangs on Thu, 05 April 2018, 11:14:02
Not sure if it was mentioned, but are the keycaps 1.5mm thick?
It’s in the kickstart faq section
Post by: runsamok on Thu, 05 April 2018, 11:23:00
Post by: Arhipio on Thu, 05 April 2018, 11:29:32
Just made a reddit post if you guys want to show your love there :thumb:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8a0zlz/news_hub_is_15_funded_thank_you_for_all_the/
Post by: Parva Ovis on Thu, 05 April 2018, 11:39:28
Post by: evangs on Thu, 05 April 2018, 12:08:06
Here's an album I made of 19 possible colorway combinations. https://imgur.com/gallery/9h7nL
oh man you came up with some that I hadn't! thanks for sharing
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 05 April 2018, 13:13:15
Here's an album I made of 19 possible colorway combinations. https://imgur.com/gallery/9h7nL
Love your names too!
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 05 April 2018, 13:18:38
Thanks for posting the reddit thread. That will be a key platform for visibility. You guys could literally be posting a different user submitted combination render every day!Here's an album I made of 19 possible colorway combinations. https://imgur.com/gallery/9h7nL
oh man you came up with some that I hadn't! thanks for sharing
My coworkers will think I am buying new keycaps every week once this is produced! :cool:
Post by: Arhipio on Thu, 05 April 2018, 14:08:13
Thanks for posting the reddit thread. That will be a key platform for visibility. You guys could literally be posting a different user submitted combination render every day!Here's an album I made of 19 possible colorway combinations. https://imgur.com/gallery/9h7nL
oh man you came up with some that I hadn't! thanks for sharing
My coworkers will think I am buying new keycaps every week once this is produced! :cool:
That's the plan, even more combinations than the original 12!
Post by: xondat on Thu, 05 April 2018, 14:36:18
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 05 April 2018, 14:51:24
That's the plan, even more combinations than the original 12!Your new tool truly opens the mind to all the different options possible!
When you think about it, just the combination of the Alphas, Mods, Accent, Enter and Space from the 12 different sets render 248,832 combinations possible. Not that all would look pretty but still mind-blowing. If you get into the individual keys you get into the billions of options.
Another idea is to do one of those videos you create where you start with the 12 and start combining them until the screen fills up with so many options. Like your instagram vid from a couple days but explaining more the idea.
I envision a cross between these two concepts. No idea how hard it would be to make.
Post by: evangs on Thu, 05 April 2018, 15:05:24
That's the plan, even more combinations than the original 12!Your new tool truly opens the mind to all the different options possible!
When you think about it, just the combination of the Alphas, Mods, Accent, Enter and Space from the 12 different sets render 248,832 combinations possible. Not that all would look pretty but still mind-blowing. If you get into the individual keys you get into the billions of options.
Another idea is to do one of those videos you create where you start with the 12 and start combining them until the screen fills up with so many options. Like your instagram vid from a couple days but explaining more the idea.
I envision a cross between these two concepts. No idea how hard it would be to make.
oh cool ideas :D I will have to play with this some
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Thu, 05 April 2018, 17:36:58
Post by: Arhipio on Thu, 05 April 2018, 17:46:35
I'm fully prepared to be told this is a dumb question but which model of Minivan comes with the 250 dollar tier? Is it the one with arrow key support or the original model?
Our newest model which is hot swappable and supports both layouts including some other ones.
Post by: keyboardbelle on Fri, 06 April 2018, 09:54:54
Post by: elcubismo on Fri, 06 April 2018, 10:44:46
Post by: Arhipio on Fri, 06 April 2018, 11:27:10
Updated kickstarter and op with new side profile comparison chart. Shows the comparisons between HuB, cherry and DSA.
Post by: MaNiFeX on Fri, 06 April 2018, 11:31:41
Love the profile, love the colours but the legends aren't my bag at all. Hopefully this round succeeds & you can progress to some legends that are a little more conventional & less polarizing.
I really want to support this as well, but am in the same boat. I really like traditional legends for some reason, despite being born in the 80s. I might jump in just to show support despite not liking the icons. :thumb:
Post by: emenelopee on Fri, 06 April 2018, 11:44:29
Hello!
https://hub.thevankeyboards.com/ (https://hub.thevankeyboards.com/)
I put this little webapp together last night to let people experiment with the different HuB sets mix and matchability.
By simply adjusting the drop downs you can come up with all sorts of neat combinations.
I can't wait to see what you come up with!
To share your creations you can do a screen capture (mac: shift + ctrl + cmd + 4 or windows: shift + win + s). Be sure to include the drop downs so others can see your recipe.
Sincerely,
Evan
Neat.
Whenever I see a tool like this I always want to see a [RANDOM] button which selects a random choice from each dropdown. It's not useful for design per se but it's simple thing to implement and really plays to the anything-you-want feel to customisation.
Just like Google still has their "I'm feeling lucky" button.
Post by: Acereconkeys on Fri, 06 April 2018, 12:33:45
Post by: evangs on Fri, 06 April 2018, 13:16:36
I like the profile I hope this works out so we can see more competition in the future!
thank you. I believe it can happen. We just need to keep spreading awareness and get folks in for at least a set. With how large the mech keys community has become there is really no reason this shouldn't get funded.
Post by: Arhipio on Fri, 06 April 2018, 13:18:55
(https://i.imgur.com/8XHf3Uh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EvKft0x.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/RJ9Dwfs.png)
Post by: Arhipio on Fri, 06 April 2018, 13:41:43
Love the profile, love the colours but the legends aren't my bag at all. Hopefully this round succeeds & you can progress to some legends that are a little more conventional & less polarizing.
I really want to support this as well, but am in the same boat. I really like traditional legends for some reason, despite being born in the 80s. I might jump in just to show support despite not liking the icons. :thumb:
Thank you so much, down the line this is more than doable. This is bigger than just the current sets, we are kickstarting us becoming a manufacturer from the ground up. And through this we are hoping to bring competition in the keycap market. So you supporting us even though you don't like the current state of the legends means so much. We hope more people see it this way.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 06 April 2018, 14:46:22
Hi guys. I don't completely understand what you're going for with this sculpt. Could you lay it out in a little more detail? Maybe include the sculpt angle for each row? Still trying to wrap my head around it...I'm pretty sure the sculpt is identical to cherry profile but with spherical tops.
I dunno, man. I'm not seeing Cherry profile in this drawing.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/gXbKizw.png)
It even kinda looks like Row 1 is inverted away from the user slightly. Just looking for a little clarification.
I think this image is a little more representative:
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/020/798/287/6867f52d6b8d5e6e94a7695a65332980_original.png?w=680&fit=max&v=1523020720&auto=format&lossless=true&s=c1f4ce53326173605f5909aa640fb3e7)
Post by: evangs on Fri, 06 April 2018, 14:59:57
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/414707158794502145/431327018194436097/unknown.png)
Post by: PRkeys on Fri, 06 April 2018, 18:34:19
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/8abr68/gb_hub_a_new_keycap_profile/
Post by: Arhipio on Fri, 06 April 2018, 21:04:47
Saw a new post on reddit. Give it some love!
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/8abr68/gb_hub_a_new_keycap_profile/
Thank you :D I'll be making mechmarket and reddit posts as often as possible.
Post by: a_ak57 on Fri, 06 April 2018, 21:30:10
One question I have though: I'm tempted to make a hyperfuse knockoff (dreamweaver alphas + 80s kid mods) but I don't like accent spacebars and dreamweaver appears to have a whiter white than other sets, would it be possible to make a spacebar to match its alphas?
Post by: Arhipio on Fri, 06 April 2018, 21:50:12
TBH I'm not really a fan of the mod legends even though I understand the reasoning behind the choice and most of the colorways aren't to my taste, but I'm considering joining this simply because it'd be nice to see a DSA/Cherry hybrid and $50 is a great price for a set.
One question I have though: I'm tempted to make a hyperfuse knockoff (dreamweaver alphas + 80s kid mods) but I don't like accent spacebars and dreamweaver appears to have a whiter white than other sets, would it be possible to make a spacebar to match its alphas?
The colors are locked in, sorry :(.
Post by: Parva Ovis on Sat, 07 April 2018, 00:45:36
Post by: evangs on Sat, 07 April 2018, 01:02:59
You guys should make a post about this project on r/kickstarter!
oh that's an excellent idea! we have another subreddit we were thinking about as well.
Post by: 69420swag on Sat, 07 April 2018, 03:00:28
Just wanna clarify, are the whites for miami and dreamweaver different, I can't tell too easily from the top-down renders.TBH I'm not really a fan of the mod legends even though I understand the reasoning behind the choice and most of the colorways aren't to my taste, but I'm considering joining this simply because it'd be nice to see a DSA/Cherry hybrid and $50 is a great price for a set.
One question I have though: I'm tempted to make a hyperfuse knockoff (dreamweaver alphas + 80s kid mods) but I don't like accent spacebars and dreamweaver appears to have a whiter white than other sets, would it be possible to make a spacebar to match its alphas?
The colors are locked in, sorry :(.
Nevermind I see that they are different.
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 07 April 2018, 03:24:09
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 07 April 2018, 04:51:12
Spherical profiles are not comfortable. They add one annoying restraint to the position of the finger in the N-S direction. By definition, the movement of the finger happens mostly in the N-S direction, much more than in the W-E direction, so precise positioning is much more difficult.
Ok
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 07 April 2018, 06:43:54
Spherical profiles are not comfortable. They add one annoying restraint to the position of the finger in the N-S direction. By definition, the movement of the finger happens mostly in the N-S direction, much more than in the W-E direction, so precise positioning is much more difficult.
Ok
YES
Post by: PRkeys on Sat, 07 April 2018, 09:21:40
Go for the gamer/pc enthusiast ones.You guys should make a post about this project on r/kickstarter!oh that's an excellent idea! we have another subreddit we were thinking about as well.
Post by: Arhipio on Sat, 07 April 2018, 12:05:00
https://www.strawpoll.me/15453891
That's all I have to say, let's keep pumping those numbers up!
Post by: Parva Ovis on Sat, 07 April 2018, 13:30:02
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 07 April 2018, 13:38:54
You should definitely do a Kira render. Kira's also coming out in October, so Kira and HuB are a natural pairing. We just need to convince the 1k of Kira backers of that. :D
this :thumb:
Post by: evangs on Sat, 07 April 2018, 13:39:38
You should definitely do a Kira render. Kira's also coming out in October, so Kira and HuB are a natural pairing. We just need to convince the 1k of Kira backers of that. :D
we are working on a cross promotion with IC :D
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 07 April 2018, 16:00:43
Post by: PRkeys on Sat, 07 April 2018, 18:15:06
Post by: Arhipio on Sun, 08 April 2018, 12:32:58
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: Arhipio on Sun, 08 April 2018, 12:34:31
FYI, you may already be aware but the 60% renders in your hub gallery need the spacebar color corrected for Miami and MidnightI'll let our artist know but I believe it was done on purpose just to throw in a sneaky mix and match here and there.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: Arhipio on Sun, 08 April 2018, 15:45:56
New mechmarket post: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/8asv84/gb_hub_has_almost_reached_100k/
New render up on rmk: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8aqs0k/i_need_this_in_my_life/
We're almost at 100k let's hit that goal today! :thumb:
Post by: dsaf on Sun, 08 April 2018, 17:12:53
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Post by: evangs on Sun, 08 April 2018, 18:05:33
Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
Post by: dsaf on Sun, 08 April 2018, 18:37:09
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
Well, that sucks!
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 08 April 2018, 18:45:11
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
Well, that sucks!
It is because people were using renders to mis-represent products as closer to completed than they were.
Post by: PRkeys on Sun, 08 April 2018, 18:55:50
Post by: evangs on Sun, 08 April 2018, 19:06:53
Yeah that sucks. Maybe update the older ones you had that were clear renders but still allowed people to visualize the sets on a keyboard.
Yeah we are thinking of doing a render where the keyboard is like 8x so that it’s clear it’s a render or maybe put in a dinosaur
Post by: PRkeys on Sun, 08 April 2018, 19:44:46
Are you able to send them for their approval first just in case? Or maybe adding an note on the images. My understanding is they are against photorealistic renders that people may think are real.Yeah that sucks. Maybe update the older ones you had that were clear renders but still allowed people to visualize the sets on a keyboard.
Yeah we are thinking of doing a render where the keyboard is like 8x so that it’s clear it’s a render or maybe put in a dinosaur
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 08 April 2018, 20:03:31
Yeah that sucks. Maybe update the older ones you had that were clear renders but still allowed people to visualize the sets on a keyboard.
Yeah we are thinking of doing a render where the keyboard is like 8x so that it’s clear it’s a render or maybe put in a dinosaur
+1 for the dinosaur :thumb:
Post by: Parva Ovis on Sun, 08 April 2018, 20:17:53
How about a render where the keycaps are just floating in midair, like on a propped-up keyboard but minus the keyboard itself?Yeah that sucks. Maybe update the older ones you had that were clear renders but still allowed people to visualize the sets on a keyboard.
Yeah we are thinking of doing a render where the keyboard is like 8x so that it’s clear it’s a render or maybe put in a dinosaur
Post by: evangs on Sun, 08 April 2018, 20:59:33
How about a render where the keycaps are just floating in midair, like on a propped-up keyboard but minus the keyboard itself?Yeah that sucks. Maybe update the older ones you had that were clear renders but still allowed people to visualize the sets on a keyboard.
Yeah we are thinking of doing a render where the keyboard is like 8x so that it’s clear it’s a render or maybe put in a dinosaur
yeah I think that's what we are going to end up doing. with an obvious not real life background.
Post by: ricyuyc on Sun, 08 April 2018, 21:51:44
Post by: Arhipio on Sun, 08 April 2018, 22:19:31
Which option should I back if I want each full set of skidata and paperwork?You could either back the three pack and get an extra set or back the 50 dollar one and manually set your pledge to 100.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: PRkeys on Sun, 08 April 2018, 23:26:08
(https://i.imgur.com/DuyYkZF.png)
Post by: ricyuyc on Mon, 09 April 2018, 00:16:14
Thanks for your advise. I think I just save $125 that since either one pack or three three pack have gone.Which option should I back if I want each full set of skidata and paperwork?You could either back the three pack and get an extra set or back the 50 dollar one and manually set your pledge to 100.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: evangs on Mon, 09 April 2018, 00:41:06
Thanks for your advise. I think I just save $125 that since either one pack or three three pack have gone.Which option should I back if I want each full set of skidata and paperwork?You could either back the three pack and get an extra set or back the 50 dollar one and manually set your pledge to 100.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
They haven’t gone. There are two of each pledge and the ones that are gone/sold out are the old ones that were restrictive on color choices. We disabled them and added the new ones for clarity but it seems to still be confusing
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 09 April 2018, 05:56:04
At $50 roughly per set and a $500k goal, based on the Kickstarter page and this thread it sounds like you're planning to purchase and set up an injection molding manufacuring space, manufacture molds, create around 9,000-10,000 sets of 150+ caps each in 12 different colorways and QC them in 5 months.
- Keeping manufacturing in the US, does that mean you're using an existing manufacturer or creating your own? I've heard you might be purchasing injection molding machines?
- If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
- If not, wow so many questions.
- What experince running logistics on such a massive quantity of parts do you have? Running GBs for keyboards is quite different, we're literally talking multiple orders of magnitude difference in numbers of parts. It would be good to know how many people you have staffed to help with this stuff, or if a manufacturer will be doing all of the sorting, QC'ing, replacing parts, and shipping.
- Have the molds been designed and/or tested already? Past projects here that have included designing injection molds have taken a significant amount of time troubleshooting minutae related to the molds themselves, is iterating on them in your timeline?
You're undertaking quite a lot, just curious how deep you're going. Look at other people who have manufactured stuff here both with and without the help of existing manufacturers, it's not trivial. Yet there's tons of discussion about mixing and matching colorways and not much about where $500,000 is going.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 09 April 2018, 07:16:11
If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
It's very possible that they cannot reveal who this is at this point.
Post by: evangs on Mon, 09 April 2018, 07:29:38
I don't fully understand why so few questions are being asked in this thread, it's a little worrying to me:
At $50 roughly per set and a $500k goal, based on the Kickstarter page and this thread it sounds like you're planning to purchase and set up an injection molding manufacuring space, manufacture molds, create around 9,000-10,000 sets of 150+ caps each in 12 different colorways and QC them in 5 months.
- Keeping manufacturing in the US, does that mean you're using an existing manufacturer or creating your own? I've heard you might be purchasing injection molding machines?
- If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
- If not, wow so many questions.
- What experince running logistics on such a massive quantity of parts do you have? Running GBs for keyboards is quite different, we're literally talking multiple orders of magnitude difference in numbers of parts. It would be good to know how many people you have staffed to help with this stuff, or if a manufacturer will be doing all of the sorting, QC'ing, replacing parts, and shipping.
- Have the molds been designed and/or tested already? Past projects here that have included designing injection molds have taken a significant amount of time troubleshooting minutae related to the molds themselves, is iterating on them in your timeline?
You're undertaking quite a lot, just curious how deep you're going. Look at other people who have manufactured stuff here both with and without the help of existing manufacturers, it's not trivial. Yet there's tons of discussion about mixing and matching colorways and not much about where $500,000 is going.
Hi,
Thanks for your questions. The company we are working with has done injection molding through the years but at present primarily focuses on tooling molds for injection molding. For this project machinery will be purchased along with molds.
The way they are tooling this project will remove nearly all manual labor. This is a big reason why we can produce in the states. There is an automated qc process that they have developed combined with manual checks.
There has been a specification process to ensure the models will be molded accurately as we expect. I have another meeting in this regard just to discuss the legends. All of this before the Kickstarter is even over. I’ve been discussing this project with them for at least 6 months already.
I have a number of people on standby to help with fulfillment, some of which have factory experience production and packing thousands of parts per shift. Because of our manufacturing process there will be almost no sorting.
I’m on my phone and your post was lengthy so I hope I haven’t left anything out.
TLDR I’m working with expert tooling company that will run molding for me. New machine, new molds. I’ve been working directly with this company for over 6 months already.
Post by: PRkeys on Mon, 09 April 2018, 08:55:20
With the excitement of making things happen and signing documents away you don't want to end up tied up for any future use in a way that you don't intend. :eek: It may be obvious, but if this tips over don't skimp on getting your own legal team to go over everything.
Sorry to sound like your moms with all this unsolicited advice. I am sure you have some great experience under your belt already but me now ingrained in the world of startups, marketing, and the like, I am just trying to give pointers to ensure you guys succeed.
Post by: evangs on Mon, 09 April 2018, 09:19:27
Van team, Be very careful on how your legal agreements and contracts are worded with your manufacturing partners and anybody helping you guys in this process. Pay very careful attention to any clauses on ownership of the intellectual property of the new profile and the tooling, exclusivity agreements, royalties and other items Beyond this specific first round.
With the excitement of making things happen and signing documents away you don't want to end up tied up for any future use in a way that you don't intend. :eek: It may be obvious, but if this tips over don't skimp on getting your own legal team to go over everything.
Sorry to sound like your moms with all this unsolicited advice. I am sure you have some great experience under your belt already but me now ingrained in the world of startups, marketing, and the like, I am just trying to give pointers to ensure you guys succeed.
Thank you for the advice. I already have a lawyer on the team, but it’s always good to be reminded to be vigilant.
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 09 April 2018, 09:53:26
I don't fully understand why so few questions are being asked in this thread, it's a little worrying to me:
At $50 roughly per set and a $500k goal, based on the Kickstarter page and this thread it sounds like you're planning to purchase and set up an injection molding manufacuring space, manufacture molds, create around 9,000-10,000 sets of 150+ caps each in 12 different colorways and QC them in 5 months.
- Keeping manufacturing in the US, does that mean you're using an existing manufacturer or creating your own? I've heard you might be purchasing injection molding machines?
- If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
- If not, wow so many questions.
- What experince running logistics on such a massive quantity of parts do you have? Running GBs for keyboards is quite different, we're literally talking multiple orders of magnitude difference in numbers of parts. It would be good to know how many people you have staffed to help with this stuff, or if a manufacturer will be doing all of the sorting, QC'ing, replacing parts, and shipping.
- Have the molds been designed and/or tested already? Past projects here that have included designing injection molds have taken a significant amount of time troubleshooting minutae related to the molds themselves, is iterating on them in your timeline?
You're undertaking quite a lot, just curious how deep you're going. Look at other people who have manufactured stuff here both with and without the help of existing manufacturers, it's not trivial. Yet there's tons of discussion about mixing and matching colorways and not much about where $500,000 is going.
Hi,
Thanks for your questions. The company we are working with has done injection molding through the years but at present primarily focuses on tooling molds for injection molding. For this project machinery will be purchased along with molds.
The way they are tooling this project will remove nearly all manual labor. This is a big reason why we can produce in the states. There is an automated qc process that they have developed combined with manual checks.
There has been a specification process to ensure the models will be molded accurately as we expect. I have another meeting in this regard just to discuss the legends. All of this before the Kickstarter is even over. I’ve been discussing this project with them for at least 6 months already.
I have a number of people on standby to help with fulfillment, some of which have factory experience production and packing thousands of parts per shift. Because of our manufacturing process there will be almost no sorting.
I’m on my phone and your post was lengthy so I hope I haven’t left anything out.
TLDR I’m working with expert tooling company that will run molding for me. New machine, new molds. I’ve been working directly with this company for over 6 months already.
Awesome, thanks for all the details :) That kind of info goes a long way (in my mind) to legitimize this whole venture, or at least inform people what they are funding.
Questions beyond that are beyond my knowledge of plastic manufacturing, but this does sound quite interesting. I'd be very interested to see behind-the-scenes details of the process, how this automated QC process works, etc. Do you know what kind of transparency you'll be giving backers to see behind the curtain? Will you eventually be able to reveal who these companies you're working with are?
Post by: evangs on Mon, 09 April 2018, 10:11:41
I don't fully understand why so few questions are being asked in this thread, it's a little worrying to me:
At $50 roughly per set and a $500k goal, based on the Kickstarter page and this thread it sounds like you're planning to purchase and set up an injection molding manufacuring space, manufacture molds, create around 9,000-10,000 sets of 150+ caps each in 12 different colorways and QC them in 5 months.
- Keeping manufacturing in the US, does that mean you're using an existing manufacturer or creating your own? I've heard you might be purchasing injection molding machines?
- If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
- If not, wow so many questions.
- What experince running logistics on such a massive quantity of parts do you have? Running GBs for keyboards is quite different, we're literally talking multiple orders of magnitude difference in numbers of parts. It would be good to know how many people you have staffed to help with this stuff, or if a manufacturer will be doing all of the sorting, QC'ing, replacing parts, and shipping.
- Have the molds been designed and/or tested already? Past projects here that have included designing injection molds have taken a significant amount of time troubleshooting minutae related to the molds themselves, is iterating on them in your timeline?
You're undertaking quite a lot, just curious how deep you're going. Look at other people who have manufactured stuff here both with and without the help of existing manufacturers, it's not trivial. Yet there's tons of discussion about mixing and matching colorways and not much about where $500,000 is going.
Hi,
Thanks for your questions. The company we are working with has done injection molding through the years but at present primarily focuses on tooling molds for injection molding. For this project machinery will be purchased along with molds.
The way they are tooling this project will remove nearly all manual labor. This is a big reason why we can produce in the states. There is an automated qc process that they have developed combined with manual checks.
There has been a specification process to ensure the models will be molded accurately as we expect. I have another meeting in this regard just to discuss the legends. All of this before the Kickstarter is even over. I’ve been discussing this project with them for at least 6 months already.
I have a number of people on standby to help with fulfillment, some of which have factory experience production and packing thousands of parts per shift. Because of our manufacturing process there will be almost no sorting.
I’m on my phone and your post was lengthy so I hope I haven’t left anything out.
TLDR I’m working with expert tooling company that will run molding for me. New machine, new molds. I’ve been working directly with this company for over 6 months already.
Awesome, thanks for all the details :) That kind of info goes a long way (in my mind) to legitimize this whole venture, or at least inform people what they are funding.
Questions beyond that are beyond my knowledge of plastic manufacturing, but this does sound quite interesting. I'd be very interested to see behind-the-scenes details of the process, how this automated QC process works, etc. Do you know what kind of transparency you'll be giving backers to see behind the curtain? Will you eventually be able to reveal who these companies you're working with are?
I've added a couple FAQ's to the kickstarter with this info.
I've got some footage of the machines running that I want to upload, need to remove audio first. I would like to document as much of the process as possible, but obviously some stuff can't be shared. Once we are further along I can share who we are working with.
Post by: Visionaire on Mon, 09 April 2018, 10:19:57
I don't fully understand why so few questions are being asked in this thread, it's a little worrying to me:
At $50 roughly per set and a $500k goal, based on the Kickstarter page and this thread it sounds like you're planning to purchase and set up an injection molding manufacuring space, manufacture molds, create around 9,000-10,000 sets of 150+ caps each in 12 different colorways and QC them in 5 months.
- Keeping manufacturing in the US, does that mean you're using an existing manufacturer or creating your own? I've heard you might be purchasing injection molding machines?
- If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
- If not, wow so many questions.
- What experince running logistics on such a massive quantity of parts do you have? Running GBs for keyboards is quite different, we're literally talking multiple orders of magnitude difference in numbers of parts. It would be good to know how many people you have staffed to help with this stuff, or if a manufacturer will be doing all of the sorting, QC'ing, replacing parts, and shipping.
- Have the molds been designed and/or tested already? Past projects here that have included designing injection molds have taken a significant amount of time troubleshooting minutae related to the molds themselves, is iterating on them in your timeline?
You're undertaking quite a lot, just curious how deep you're going. Look at other people who have manufactured stuff here both with and without the help of existing manufacturers, it's not trivial. Yet there's tons of discussion about mixing and matching colorways and not much about where $500,000 is going.
Hi,
Thanks for your questions. The company we are working with has done injection molding through the years but at present primarily focuses on tooling molds for injection molding. For this project machinery will be purchased along with molds.
The way they are tooling this project will remove nearly all manual labor. This is a big reason why we can produce in the states. There is an automated qc process that they have developed combined with manual checks.
There has been a specification process to ensure the models will be molded accurately as we expect. I have another meeting in this regard just to discuss the legends. All of this before the Kickstarter is even over. I’ve been discussing this project with them for at least 6 months already.
I have a number of people on standby to help with fulfillment, some of which have factory experience production and packing thousands of parts per shift. Because of our manufacturing process there will be almost no sorting.
I’m on my phone and your post was lengthy so I hope I haven’t left anything out.
TLDR I’m working with expert tooling company that will run molding for me. New machine, new molds. I’ve been working directly with this company for over 6 months already.
Awesome, thanks for all the details :) That kind of info goes a long way (in my mind) to legitimize this whole venture, or at least inform people what they are funding.
Questions beyond that are beyond my knowledge of plastic manufacturing, but this does sound quite interesting. I'd be very interested to see behind-the-scenes details of the process, how this automated QC process works, etc. Do you know what kind of transparency you'll be giving backers to see behind the curtain? Will you eventually be able to reveal who these companies you're working with are?
I've added a couple FAQ's to the kickstarter with this info.
I've got some footage of the machines running that I want to upload, need to remove audio first. I would like to document as much of the process as possible, but obviously some stuff can't be shared. Once we are further along I can share who we are working with.
So you'll be leveraging a manufacturing facility with new molds, not hiring your own employees to do this, yea?
Post by: evangs on Mon, 09 April 2018, 10:40:11
I don't fully understand why so few questions are being asked in this thread, it's a little worrying to me:
At $50 roughly per set and a $500k goal, based on the Kickstarter page and this thread it sounds like you're planning to purchase and set up an injection molding manufacuring space, manufacture molds, create around 9,000-10,000 sets of 150+ caps each in 12 different colorways and QC them in 5 months.
- Keeping manufacturing in the US, does that mean you're using an existing manufacturer or creating your own? I've heard you might be purchasing injection molding machines?
- If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
- If not, wow so many questions.
- What experince running logistics on such a massive quantity of parts do you have? Running GBs for keyboards is quite different, we're literally talking multiple orders of magnitude difference in numbers of parts. It would be good to know how many people you have staffed to help with this stuff, or if a manufacturer will be doing all of the sorting, QC'ing, replacing parts, and shipping.
- Have the molds been designed and/or tested already? Past projects here that have included designing injection molds have taken a significant amount of time troubleshooting minutae related to the molds themselves, is iterating on them in your timeline?
You're undertaking quite a lot, just curious how deep you're going. Look at other people who have manufactured stuff here both with and without the help of existing manufacturers, it's not trivial. Yet there's tons of discussion about mixing and matching colorways and not much about where $500,000 is going.
Hi,
Thanks for your questions. The company we are working with has done injection molding through the years but at present primarily focuses on tooling molds for injection molding. For this project machinery will be purchased along with molds.
The way they are tooling this project will remove nearly all manual labor. This is a big reason why we can produce in the states. There is an automated qc process that they have developed combined with manual checks.
There has been a specification process to ensure the models will be molded accurately as we expect. I have another meeting in this regard just to discuss the legends. All of this before the Kickstarter is even over. I’ve been discussing this project with them for at least 6 months already.
I have a number of people on standby to help with fulfillment, some of which have factory experience production and packing thousands of parts per shift. Because of our manufacturing process there will be almost no sorting.
I’m on my phone and your post was lengthy so I hope I haven’t left anything out.
TLDR I’m working with expert tooling company that will run molding for me. New machine, new molds. I’ve been working directly with this company for over 6 months already.
Awesome, thanks for all the details :) That kind of info goes a long way (in my mind) to legitimize this whole venture, or at least inform people what they are funding.
Questions beyond that are beyond my knowledge of plastic manufacturing, but this does sound quite interesting. I'd be very interested to see behind-the-scenes details of the process, how this automated QC process works, etc. Do you know what kind of transparency you'll be giving backers to see behind the curtain? Will you eventually be able to reveal who these companies you're working with are?
I've added a couple FAQ's to the kickstarter with this info.
I've got some footage of the machines running that I want to upload, need to remove audio first. I would like to document as much of the process as possible, but obviously some stuff can't be shared. Once we are further along I can share who we are working with.
So you'll be leveraging a manufacturing facility with new molds, not hiring your own employees to do this, yea?
for the production and sorting of the caps, yes. I will be hiring employees to package the packs of caps into boxes and fulfilling orders.
Post by: dsaf on Mon, 09 April 2018, 11:21:58
Post by: evangs on Mon, 09 April 2018, 11:26:10
Would you be able to act as mini-kickstarter in future? E.g. someone creates a nuclear data novelty pack of 20 keys and gets 50 people to sign up. So that community just creates the designs and secures interest and you handle the manufacturing, payments AND shipping? Or would it be completely unfeasible?
we should definitely be able to do something like that. we are already discussing internally what that would look like and how it would work.
Post by: etatauri on Mon, 09 April 2018, 11:28:26
I'm using Colemak at the moment, but I'm sure others would be looking for Dvorak, international and non-standard modifiers as well.
This being the first run I doubt they will be offered, but I'd definitely be interested in buying if this was available.
Post by: evangs on Mon, 09 April 2018, 11:33:59
Interesting profile. I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but will there be any chance any of these will be offered in alternate layouts?
I'm using Colemak at the moment, but I'm sure others would be looking for Dvorak, international and non-standard modifiers as well.
This being the first run I doubt they will be offered, but I'd definitely be interested in buying if this was available.
Not for initial run but should be doable later on.
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 10 April 2018, 16:16:21
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/8bbh6a/gb_hub_is_112k500k_we_passed_100k/
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 10 April 2018, 16:17:47
(https://i.redditmedia.com/5F5EJjHibNbZB4rwdRJm7cxSzZ6cgAykxhWbddkZJlo.png?w=1024&s=1dae07cda0cf46a5a7fd4ed10c17307e)
Post by: elfick on Tue, 10 April 2018, 18:10:42
Check out our Laguna (Modifiers) x Midnight (Alphas) render. Langelandia on reddit convinced our art director 2zq to render this up. Looks awfully familiar...Hmm... maybe I don't need another SA set after all...Show Image(https://i.redditmedia.com/5F5EJjHibNbZB4rwdRJm7cxSzZ6cgAykxhWbddkZJlo.png?w=1024&s=1dae07cda0cf46a5a7fd4ed10c17307e)
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 11 April 2018, 13:25:15
Render created with Nuke Alphas and Royal Modifiers!
(https://i.imgur.com/3bZ93Gj.png)
Post by: phorx on Wed, 11 April 2018, 15:10:17
Wise man say: "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Is that a quote from the original live-action TMNT movie?
Post by: clasicks on Wed, 11 April 2018, 15:12:38
Post by: jimirolln on Wed, 11 April 2018, 15:57:15
is this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
maybe the necro cw would make a nice hub set
Post by: KaosJ on Wed, 11 April 2018, 16:23:44
is this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
wat
Post by: Arhipio on Wed, 11 April 2018, 16:24:29
Wise man say: "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Is that a quote from the original live-action TMNT movie?
Haha yes it is
Post by: megaforce on Wed, 11 April 2018, 16:28:54
LMAOis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
maybe the necro cw would make a nice hub set
I love jimi
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
Post by: kiwi99 on Wed, 11 April 2018, 22:44:15
Post by: evangs on Wed, 11 April 2018, 22:54:02
Any reason for the hieroglyphics mods? Can't really understand the reason behind it, it says one line in the kickstarters about being able to move keys around but whats that matter when you have such a big base set? Also odd that the arrow key legends are centered while rest of the set isn't.
We wanted to do something different then just the same old legends/icons. The arrows are centered because it looks better.
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Thu, 12 April 2018, 00:29:37
is this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
Post by: superdoedoe on Thu, 12 April 2018, 00:32:15
is this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
all the best? wuh? i see like a couple of good colourways the rest are just a mash of bright-ass colours.
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 00:35:26
Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
Post by: Parva Ovis on Thu, 12 April 2018, 00:39:01
Pinning one groupbuy and not any others would just smack of favoritism.Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Thu, 12 April 2018, 00:41:29
Pinning one groupbuy and not any others would just smack of favoritism.Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
it's okay, just complain about it on instagram
Post by: evangs on Thu, 12 April 2018, 06:35:04
Pinning one groupbuy and not any others would just smack of favoritism.Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
it's okay, just complain about it on instagram
Who complained on instagram???? Do you have a link?
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 06:36:49
Pinning one groupbuy and not any others would just smack of favoritism.Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
it's okay, just complain about it on instagram
Who complained on instagram???? Do you have a link?
I gotchu
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/393396388282761219/433834773165768752/image.png)
Post by: mbsurfer on Thu, 12 April 2018, 07:59:36
Pinning one groupbuy and not any others would just smack of favoritism.Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
it's okay, just complain about it on instagram
Who complained on instagram???? Do you have a link?
I gotchuShow Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/393396388282761219/433834773165768752/image.png)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/5NMby7ZZo1jFK/giphy.gif)
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 08:50:21
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:06:27
Pinning one groupbuy and not any others would just smack of favoritism.Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
it's okay, just complain about it on instagram
Who complained on instagram???? Do you have a link?
I gotchuShow Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/393396388282761219/433834773165768752/image.png)Show Image(https://media.giphy.com/media/5NMby7ZZo1jFK/giphy.gif)
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/whid1.gif)
Whoopsies... just was startled by the amount of "inspired" renders.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:07:24
Pinning one groupbuy and not any others would just smack of favoritism.Smh I bet this would have double the amount if some r/mk mod would pin itis this new profile just ripping all the best colorways?
idk if ripped off but they're worse than their inspirations. ahemskidataahem
So much for being inclusive in the community smh. Someone should make an IG story about it too.
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
it's okay, just complain about it on instagram
Who complained on instagram???? Do you have a link?
I gotchuShow Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/393396388282761219/433834773165768752/image.png)Show Image(https://media.giphy.com/media/5NMby7ZZo1jFK/giphy.gif)Show Image(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/whid1.gif)
Whoopsies... just was startled by the amount of "inspired" renders.
Which is funny anyway because...
(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:17:09
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
They don't have photorealistic renders. Someone complained about that above, and Evan even quoted that as a reason they don't have it, i.e.
Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:20:56
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
They don't have photorealistic renders. Someone complained about that above, and Evan even quoted that as a reason they don't have it, i.e.Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
lol, just saw that comment chain on necro.
and no that was not related to my op
Post by: HardcoreDesk on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:21:01
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:21:57
More
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
They don't have photorealistic renders. Someone complained about that above, and Evan even quoted that as a reason they don't have it, i.e.Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
Ay.
I think the main focus here is who complained on Instagram, whether it was an employee of thevankeyboards, or someone hacked their account.
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:23:08
More
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
They don't have photorealistic renders. Someone complained about that above, and Evan even quoted that as a reason they don't have it, i.e.Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
Ay.
I think the main focus here is who complained on Instagram, whether it was an employee of thevankeyboards, or someone hacked their account.
do something embarrassing..... FAKE NEWS I GOT HACKERED
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:23:15
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
They don't have photorealistic renders. Someone complained about that above, and Evan even quoted that as a reason they don't have it, i.e.Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
lol, just saw that comment chain on necro.
and no that was not related to my op
If you look at my post, you see that I quoted someone in particular. This was not directed at you.
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:24:03
Must be Facebook and the Kremlin.More
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
They don't have photorealistic renders. Someone complained about that above, and Evan even quoted that as a reason they don't have it, i.e.Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
Ay.
I think the main focus here is who complained on Instagram, whether it was an employee of thevankeyboards, or someone hacked their account.
do something embarrassing..... FAKE NEWS I GOT HACKERED
Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:25:10
The HUB is already not a simple project with that goal, creating drama out of literally nothing would just make this even harder.
Please Xondat / others, step apart, be the good guys understanding the nature of this GB, just don't join if you don't like the project or the makers.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:25:41
More
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
They don't have photorealistic renders. Someone complained about that above, and Evan even quoted that as a reason they don't have it, i.e.Backed for a three-pack.
Why is Kickstarter promo image a close up of a weird anime dude, instead of one of those sexy vivid 3D renders that showcase the actual product?
Realistic renders aren’t allowed. We could get our Kickstarter pulled if we did that :(
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
Ay.
I think the main focus here is who complained on Instagram, whether it was an employee of thevankeyboards, or someone hacked their account.
Considering that the last post (the one I quoted) was not even related to the conversation in question, I find that convenient. So as not to derail this thread, I'll bow out now, with an apology if I misread the intent.
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:25:58
Everyone just stop to **** on other people GBs.
The HUB is already not a simple project with that goal, ****ting and creating drama out of literally nothing would just make this even harder.
Please Xondat / Others, step apart, please understand the nature of this GB, just don't join if you don't like the project or the makers.
yo i dont care about anything except the blatant "inspired" colorways.
chill out bro, you look bad.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:28:42
Everyone just stop to **** on other people GBs.
The HUB is already not a simple project with that goal, ****ting and creating drama out of literally nothing would just make this even harder.
Please Xondat / Others, step apart, please understand the nature of this GB, just don't join if you don't like the project or the makers.
yo i dont care about anything except the blatant "inspired" colorways.
chill out bro, you look bad.
I just asked nicely (except the auto-censure of gh that was just "s h i t t i n g") to stop hating and just don't join if you don't like guys.
There are already 677 people who joined and creating drama on this GB is not only going against the makers, it is more like going against these 677 people who hopes HUB happens.
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:29:29
Everyone just stop to **** on other people GBs.
The HUB is already not a simple project with that goal, ****ting and creating drama out of literally nothing would just make this even harder.
Please Xondat / Others, step apart, please understand the nature of this GB, just don't join if you don't like the project or the makers.
yo i dont care about anything except the blatant "inspired" colorways.
chill out bro, you look bad.
I just asked nicely (except the auto-censure of gh that was just "s h i t t i n g") to stop hating and just don't join if you don't like guys.
There are already 677 people who joined and creating drama aka making the life hard for this GB like you are all doing rn is not going against the makers, is also going against these 677 people.
wat
Post by: nmur on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:29:46
Which is funny anyway because...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/czo53Ic.png)
They're going against the ToS on Kickstarter :))
from what i can see, the photo-realistic renderings are not on the actual kickstarter page
however, i would suggest supporters to be aware of why such a rule would be in place there
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:30:12
Everyone just stop to **** on other people GBs.
The HUB is already not a simple project with that goal, ****ting and creating drama out of literally nothing would just make this even harder.
Please Xondat / Others, step apart, please understand the nature of this GB, just don't join if you don't like the project or the makers.
yo i dont care about anything except the blatant "inspired" colorways.
chill out bro, you look bad.
I just asked nicely (except the auto-censure of gh that was just "s h i t t i n g") to stop hating and just don't join if you don't like guys.
There are already 677 people who joined and creating drama aka making the life hard for this GB like you are all doing rn is not going against the makers, is also going against these 677 people.
Pretty rich coming from you and your posts on ICs.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:31:41
Why have requests for price breakdown been ignored?
I've asked twice since I was considering supporting, but the fact it's been ignored makes it obvious a large chunk is not going to be used as understood.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:34:28
wat
edited
Pretty rich coming from you and your posts on ICs.
Funny.
1) Be positive on most of the GBs / ICs
2) Supporting many GBs / ICs
3) Be negative on few GBs / ICs
turns out that people only notice point 3. Cool, I'm Giorgio now :))
I'm also negative usually when something is exagerated, e.g. CU at $400, which was a joke for multiple people.
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:36:09
Pretty rich coming from you and your posts on ICs.
Funny.
1) Be positive on most of the GBs / ICs
2) Supporting many GBs / ICs
3) Be negative on few GBs / ICs
turns out that people only notice point 3. Cool, I'm Giorgio now :))
I'm also negative usually when something is exagerated, e.g. CU at $400, which was a joke for multiple people.
dw my guy, no one can top Giorgio the Terrible, but you can be his right-hand man/woman.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:39:00
dw my guy, no one can top Giorgio the Terrible, but you can be his right-hand man/woman.
Oh god you are a monster. You just compared me to Giorgio where 10% or less of my posts are criticism against something and the rest are just questions or support toward the ic/gb.
weeeew
Post by: Kafka on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:39:45
Fine, I'll keep it on topic:
Why have requests for price breakdown been ignored?
I've asked twice since I was considering supporting, but the fact it's been ignored makes it obvious a large chunk is not going to be used as understood.
Is this true? I haven't kept up with the thread in a while but thats kinda spooky....
Post by: frostbyte-gaming on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:40:00
Fine, I'll keep it on topic:
Why have requests for price breakdown been ignored?
I've asked twice since I was considering supporting, but the fact it's been ignored makes it obvious a large chunk is not going to be used as understood.
I too would be interested in a price breakdown this is a lot of money were talking about here and it would be nice to know where our money is going.
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:41:56
dw my guy, no one can top Giorgio the Terrible, but you can be his right-hand man/woman.
Oh god you are a monster. You just compared me to Giorgio where 10% or less of my posts are criticism against something and the rest are just questions or support toward the ic/gb.
weeeew
damn now you made me feel bad :C
I take back my comparisons between you and Giorgio c:
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:43:58
damn now you made me feel bad :C
I take back my comparisons between you and Giorgio c:
<3
Post by: zekkin on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:44:37
Fine, I'll keep it on topic:
Why have requests for price breakdown been ignored?
I've asked twice since I was considering supporting, but the fact it's been ignored makes it obvious a large chunk is not going to be used as understood.
I too would be interested in a price breakdown this is a lot of money were talking about here and it would be nice to know where our money is going.
I'll third this -- $500,000 is no small amount of money and there have been much more promising Kickstarters, the best example being Diaspora, which raised similar amounts of money ($500,000 - $1,000,000) and then promptly disappeared and fizzled into nothing.
I'd like to see a comprehensive breakdown (not to the dollar, maybe to the nearest $1000) of what amount of money is going to what part of creating this profile. I'd be much more keen provided we have that.
Post by: Oblotzky on Thu, 12 April 2018, 09:51:58
Fine, I'll keep it on topic:
Why have requests for price breakdown been ignored?
I've asked twice since I was considering supporting, but the fact it's been ignored makes it obvious a large chunk is not going to be used as understood.
I am also genuinely curious about this. What makes me wonder the most is, you can get 12 sets for 300$, that's 25$ per set. I can't imagine how this money is able to fund brand new tooling, which as far as I know costs upwards of thousands of dollars per new key mold (and evan said there are 30 of those to be made), the ~140+ legend plates, and at the same time be enough to also produce the actual keyset, including sorting (and shipping?). Are GMK and SP overpriced? Maybe, they surely don't work for the bare minimum seeing they have no real competition. But even JTK charges double of that, and they already have the tooling set up, a company based in China which we know is often connected with cheap labor, while HuB is made in America if I got that right.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:01:15
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:03:14
He could possibly come up with a general breakdown of percentages, but I think that expecting him to reveal actual numbers is a little bit unrealistic.
Percentages would be acceptable in my eyes.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:07:58
Post by: joey on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:14:13
Post by: Oblotzky on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:19:05
Also why try buy machines (along with room / expertise etc..) right away? Why not make the tooling/molds first and go to a company that can help produce them?
I believe that is what they are doing. https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/85gtba/hub_update_visit_to_the_factory_3152018/
Using the machines and workers of a existing company, but have to pay for the new key molds and stuff.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:21:30
Also why try buy machines (along with room / expertise etc..) right away? Why not make the tooling/molds first and go to a company that can help produce them?
They are working with a company. From an answer earlier in the thread:
I don't fully understand why so few questions are being asked in this thread, it's a little worrying to me:
At $50 roughly per set and a $500k goal, based on the Kickstarter page and this thread it sounds like you're planning to purchase and set up an injection molding manufacuring space, manufacture molds, create around 9,000-10,000 sets of 150+ caps each in 12 different colorways and QC them in 5 months.
- Keeping manufacturing in the US, does that mean you're using an existing manufacturer or creating your own? I've heard you might be purchasing injection molding machines?
- If you're working with an existing manufacturer, who? How will you oversee their QC process?
- If not, wow so many questions.
- What experince running logistics on such a massive quantity of parts do you have? Running GBs for keyboards is quite different, we're literally talking multiple orders of magnitude difference in numbers of parts. It would be good to know how many people you have staffed to help with this stuff, or if a manufacturer will be doing all of the sorting, QC'ing, replacing parts, and shipping.
- Have the molds been designed and/or tested already? Past projects here that have included designing injection molds have taken a significant amount of time troubleshooting minutae related to the molds themselves, is iterating on them in your timeline?
You're undertaking quite a lot, just curious how deep you're going. Look at other people who have manufactured stuff here both with and without the help of existing manufacturers, it's not trivial. Yet there's tons of discussion about mixing and matching colorways and not much about where $500,000 is going.
Hi,
Thanks for your questions. The company we are working with has done injection molding through the years but at present primarily focuses on tooling molds for injection molding. For this project machinery will be purchased along with molds.
The way they are tooling this project will remove nearly all manual labor. This is a big reason why we can produce in the states. There is an automated qc process that they have developed combined with manual checks.
There has been a specification process to ensure the models will be molded accurately as we expect. I have another meeting in this regard just to discuss the legends. All of this before the Kickstarter is even over. I’ve been discussing this project with them for at least 6 months already.
I have a number of people on standby to help with fulfillment, some of which have factory experience production and packing thousands of parts per shift. Because of our manufacturing process there will be almost no sorting.
I’m on my phone and your post was lengthy so I hope I haven’t left anything out.
TLDR I’m working with expert tooling company that will run molding for me. New machine, new molds. I’ve been working directly with this company for over 6 months already.
It seems that they are doing something similar as to what MassDrop did with MT3, i.e. bootstrapping a company with the experience to be able to expand into this market.
Post by: joey on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:23:37
They are working with a company. From an answer earlier in the thread:
Thanks for the links (and Oblotzky), seems to be some confusion about that point!
Post by: amnesia0287 on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:25:39
Fine, I'll keep it on topic:
Why have requests for price breakdown been ignored?
I've asked twice since I was considering supporting, but the fact it's been ignored makes it obvious a large chunk is not going to be used as understood.
Would definitely make it less sketchy if we had one.
Post by: superdoedoe on Thu, 12 April 2018, 10:30:40
Fine, I'll keep it on topic:
Why have requests for price breakdown been ignored?
I've asked twice since I was considering supporting, but the fact it's been ignored makes it obvious a large chunk is not going to be used as understood.
Pls no forgetti about this.
Post by: azachhh on Thu, 12 April 2018, 11:59:29
I mean, this might not be the intent, but it seems like drama is coming here because Evan expressed an opinion in the GMK Necro GB. It was just an opinion, based on the support, which I think is totally valid. But people there seemed not to think so, and thought he was crapping all over the group buy, including you. Maybe take the higher road?
I was involved in the Necro thread - simply thought the comment was wrong place/wrong time.
I still plan to support both Necro & HUB.
I want to see everyone win!! :thumb: :D
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:04:46
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Post by: frostbyte-gaming on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:20:18
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
Post by: evangs on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:24:50
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:32:27
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:38:50
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
The I:C guys have already proven that they can deliver a kickstarter on time and on budget.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:40:19
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
I think what people are wanting to see is what percentage is going to that, what percentage to distribution/shipping/other logistics, what percentage to the company doing the actual work, what percentage of extra do you have to account for unknowns. Not necessarily exact numbers, but enough to alleviate the fear that the number presented was planned and is indeed enough to cover all eventualities.
I've seen too many projects like this fail because of underestimation, so I can understand concerns. I just received the product from a kickstarter I backed 4 years ago, and it was delayed partially due to manufacturing (the first run wasn't good, so they had to commission a second), but also due to the increase in postage in the time it took to produce. What mitigation strategies do you have monetarily. It would give people a better feeling that they would receive a return on their money.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:41:09
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
The I:C guys have already proven that they can deliver a kickstarter on time and on budget.
They hadn't before this second round of Whitefox, and ran into problems because of their inexperience in many areas that Massdrop covered for them before. It's therefore a valid comparison.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:53:52
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
Christ.
Who owns the tooling, molds, and injection machines?
Post by: evangs on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:01:53
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
Christ.
Who owns the tooling, molds, and injection machines?
we will.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:02:53
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
Christ.
Who owns the tooling, molds, and injection machines?
we will.
So the community is paying for you to own the molds, and only you have control over them?
Why not get a loan from a bank?
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:06:45
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
Christ.
Who owns the tooling, molds, and injection machines?
They are buying them? With the money?
From the kickstarter:
Quote
Kickstarter funding will allow us to assert the cost of tooling the molds for a keyset
And again:
Quote
The funding from this campaign addresses tooling, materials, production, packaging, storage, and shipping.
So one would assume that they own them, sort of like MT3. A lot of that is based on the legalese being right, though...
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:07:23
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is all about perspective. People are seeing that large sum from the start and wondering why they are trying to raise that much.
Take as an example the latest GMK Laser drop from MiTO. If you calculate using their last update on orders it adds up to over $310,000 to produce 1,500+ sets and the related options. Their final amount was probably much higher and they are only going to GMK to produce their set with the existing tooling.
HuB will not only have to create the new tooling plus whatever cut the manufacturing partners are taking, but at a minimum will have to produce 10,000 sets if everyone were buying just one. Don't forget they are also offering Minivan keyboards in the options. With the current pledge so far they already have to produce 2,300 sets and 121 Minivan keyboards.
The new tooling and approach is the reason they can produce them that cheap in such high quantities.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:09:19
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Yes that is also true however they aren't asking for 500, 000$ that is quite a bit of money and seeing as he can sell sets ranging from 25$ per set to 50$ per set where is all this money going.
It is going to the tooling. Molds and injection machines
Christ.
Who owns the tooling, molds, and injection machines?
we will.
So the community is paying for you to own the molds, and only you have control over them?
Why not get a loan from a bank?
Couldn't this be said of any Kickstarter?
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:11:08
So the community is paying for you to own the molds, and only you have control over them?
Why not get a loan from a bank?
"Hey Bank can you give me half a million dollars, thx appreciated"
I don't remember anyone bringing up all this with MT3 /dev/tty
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:14:14
So the community is paying for you to own the molds, and only you have control over them?That is what kickstarter is about. It is an alternative funding model to banks and VCs. You help fund new businesses and ideas in exchange for their product.
Why not get a loan from a bank?
Banks don't just give money to anyone that comes asking. You need to already have money or assets before they give you more.
Post by: Koobaczech on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:15:12
The hard facts are that Evan has been a long standing community member selling products and running GB's way before a lot of us, including yourself. There are way more Minivans, roadkits, caravans, keysets, wrist rests and proxied products from him out there than your X60's and 268's and my Pearls combined. He's partnered with many people to make a lot of other stuff as well, and has always delivered on time and without any scandals. He has the experience and knowledge to sell stuff.
We can only hope that his excellent track record accompanies him with HUB. And If he has set a limit of 500k, its come from planning, number crunching and careful consideration. You don't have to support him if you are scared of his commitment or use of your money, and you are hurting this projects process by instilling doubt and worry into everyone who wants to see it be made a reality.
Give Evan some time to breakdown the pricing of it all and stop acting like a child please. We would all love more than anything to know where our money is going, but the world doesn't work that way.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:20:27
Yo Xondat, relax lol. You aren't supporting him, you are just trying to expose him. The sad truth of the matter is that if a large amount of money gets misused, its none of your business. If he doesn't answer you back, oh well. He doesn't have to.
The hard facts are that Evan has been a long standing community member selling products and running GB's way before a lot of us, including yourself. There are way more Minivans, roadkits, caravans, keysets, wrist rests and proxied products from him out there than your X60's and 268's and my Pearls combined. He's partnered with many people to make a lot of other stuff as well, and has always delivered on time and without any scandals. He has the experience and knowledge to sell stuff.
We can only hope that his excellent track record accompanies him with HUB. And If he has set a limit of 500k, its come from planning, number crunching and careful consideration. You don't have to support him if you are scared of his commitment or use of your money, and you are hurting this projects process by instilling doubt and worry into everyone who wants to see it be made a reality.
Give Evan some time to breakdown the pricing of it all and stop acting like a child please. We would all love more than anything to know where our money is going, but the world doesn't work that way.
Finally 🔥
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:21:17
Yo Xondat, relax lol. You aren't supporting him, you are just trying to expose him. The sad truth of the matter is that if a large amount of money gets misused, its none of your business. If he doesn't answer you back, oh well. He doesn't have to.
...stop acting like a child please.
Removed parts that I agree with.
I'm as chill as you Koob! But no need to say I'm acting like a child. You know better than that mate.
Unfortunately, I'm not trying to "expose" him, I want to support this, but it's incredibly shady.
I think as people are giving him money, they're investing in him. I would debate that investors are owed information on where their money goes.
That's my whole point, but he simply doesn't care.
GL for the further 48 days.
Post by: Koobaczech on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:28:40
Post by: amnesia0287 on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:32:56
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Pretty much any other kickstarter would be about just making molds and contracting someone to produce the product being sold. This is different because it is funding not just the molds but the actual manufacturing equipment as well. This brings increased costs and increased liability and so many people, myself included, think this should also bring increased transparency.
It's great to imagine that for $400k evan is just buying an easy bake oven for keycaps, but what I know of plastic manufacturing, it's not quite that simple. It's also not as if it's just 1 machine.
What's the plan if setting up the manufacturing costs MORE than $500k? What is the amount of funds set aside for unplanned issues? How much for test batches? how much on new shop space to store everything? etc.
I for one like the idea of more kep manufacturers, but I'm not really sure why we should just fund evan without more info.
Post by: Acereconkeys on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:39:06
I don't understand why they have to provide a detailed break down of their costs. Can't find any other kickstarter that has that. Don't see anyone asking the I:C guys how they are producing their kira boards at $180 each or Matt3o how much he is making from his new sets. Is not like they are running some non-for-profit organization that we can all audit.
I am signing up to receive x number of sets at y number of dollars each and that is what I expect in the end. At least this is coming from someone who has an established reputation in this space rather that the usual unknown teams behind kickstarters, so the risk is much lower.
Pretty much any other kickstarter would be about just making molds and contracting someone to produce the product being sold. This is different because it is funding not just the molds but the actual manufacturing equipment as well. This brings increased costs and increased liability and so many people, myself included, think this should also bring increased transparency.
It's great to imagine that for $400k evan is just buying an easy bake oven for keycaps, but what I know of plastic manufacturing, it's not quite that simple. It's also not as if it's just 1 machine.
What's the plan if setting up the manufacturing costs MORE than $500k? What is the amount of funds set aside for unplanned issues? How much for test batches? how much on new shop space to store everything? etc.
I for one like the idea of more kep manufacturers, but I'm not really sure why we should just fund evan without more info.
Couldn't have said it better. I appreciate you keeping it civil.
Post by: frostbyte-gaming on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:40:35
So the community is paying for you to own the molds, and only you have control over them?
Why not get a loan from a bank?
"Hey Bank can you give me half a million dollars, thx appreciated"
I don't remember anyone bringing up all this with MT3 /dev/tty
The issue with comparing it to MT3 is that no offense but Massdrop is a much larger company then evan and so there is a much higher chance that if anything didn't go according to plan we would be able to cancel our orders and get refunds.
And if you do wish to compare them the initial run of MT3 did not have an initial investment of 500, 000$ but instead was run like your typical keycap group buy with a much much smaller moq and investment needed.
Now I don't doubt evan will do everything in his power to make this a reality I am just saying that with such a large investment, that we don't normally even see from bigger companies that have the financials to back up any mishaps that may occur, that it would be nice to have some transparency to put some peoples minds at ease.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:51:27
The issue with comparing it to MT3 is that no offense but Massdrop is a much larger company then evan and so there is a much higher chance that if anything didn't go according to plan we would be able to cancel our orders and get refunds.
There is more risk than Massdrop of course, but most of the people are not criticizing the risk but their profit and breakdown and who owns the molds/machines (lol)
And if you do wish to compare them the initial run of MT3 did not have an initial investment of 500, 000$ but instead was run like your typical keycap group buy with a much much smaller moq and investment needed.
Right but DEV is a set made in China with a (really bad) Dye-sub made always in China. That's doubleshot which brings up the cost a lot and is made in US afaik.
If you do some math, that kit should have made at least $100k and they also own all the molds. Also they probably didn't had to buy some base tools/machines for making these caps, excepts making the molds.
Post by: elfick on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:55:38
The issue with comparing it to MT3 is that no offense but Massdrop is a much larger company then evan and so there is a much higher chance that if anything didn't go according to plan we would be able to cancel our orders and get refunds.
And if you do wish to compare them the initial run of MT3 did not have an initial investment of 500, 000$ but instead was run like your typical keycap group buy with a much much smaller moq and investment needed.
Now I don't doubt evan will do everything in his power to make this a reality I am just saying that with such a large investment, that we don't normally even see from bigger companies that have the financials to back up any mishaps that may occur, that it would be nice to have some transparency to put some peoples minds at ease.
No flame, but I'm curious what makes you think Massdrop is a much larger company? (or the implication that Evan is working alone)
I get the impression that Massdrop is a dozen to a score of peeps. I'm fairly certain they farm out their logistics (warehouse/packing/shipping).
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:56:52
I think as people are giving him money, they're investing in him. I would debate that investors are owed information on where their money goes.
You might think that, but the SEC wouldn't agree with you. You're purchasing a product, and paying for it to be made, which is defined as consumption. There's no investment involved in the classic sense, other than an emotional investment in receiving your product.
If you are really interested in relevant info, I can PM it to you as I was quite interested in how the SEC viewed this for another reason, and did research into it, but the short of it is summed up in this statement from the document sourced: https://www.sec.gov/info/smallbus/acsec/bradford_crowdfunding.pdf
Quote
Crowdfunding offerings of the donation, reward, and pre-purchase type clearly do not involve securities for purposes of federal law.
Quote
The Supreme Court has' drawn a clear distinction between investment and consumption.
No flame, but I'm curious what makes you think Massdrop is a much larger company? (or the implication that Evan is working alone)
I get the impression that Massdrop is a dozen to a score of peeps. I'm fairly certain they farm out their logistics (warehouse/packing/shipping).
Their senior leadership is 8 people. They also have 6 locations listed in their company profile, and the CEO has a salary in excess of 200k. They have outstanding investments in the range of $48 million, and revenues in the range of $15 million. While I have found no direct information to be released in regards to number of employees, this publicly available information implies the size of the organization.
Post by: Parva Ovis on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:00:15
Massdrop ... employs approximately 70 people at this single location. (http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Massdrop-Inc.-415-340-2999)The issue with comparing it to MT3 is that no offense but Massdrop is a much larger company then evan and so there is a much higher chance that if anything didn't go according to plan we would be able to cancel our orders and get refunds.
And if you do wish to compare them the initial run of MT3 did not have an initial investment of 500, 000$ but instead was run like your typical keycap group buy with a much much smaller moq and investment needed.
Now I don't doubt evan will do everything in his power to make this a reality I am just saying that with such a large investment, that we don't normally even see from bigger companies that have the financials to back up any mishaps that may occur, that it would be nice to have some transparency to put some peoples minds at ease.
No flame, but I'm curious what makes you think Massdrop is a much larger company? (or the implication that Evan is working alone)
I get the impression that Massdrop is a dozen to a score of peeps. I'm fairly certain they farm out their logistics (warehouse/packing/shipping).
Post by: afrokobe on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:11:43
Evan does care a lot. Hes been a long standing member, and the amount of work hes put into this through setting up a kickstarter, marketing, talks with people and all that makes it his baby. Money matters are very personal things. Everyone's now calling him shady and all this stuff, and its sad and hurtful to see the community attack one of its old members with an ambitious project over lack of monetary details. And investments are risky. But we are investing not just in Evan, we are investing in products for this community, for ourselves. Lets just try to be supportive and patient. I'll pm Evan and ask him to ease some of the tensions over this. I definitely don't like the idea of someone taking everyone's money as personal gain, but that's not what I think is happening here. No hard feelings towards anyone please!
you argue the point that we are investing in Evan, yet who in their right minds would enter into an investment without any background information or without any due diligence.
We're not asking for the most in depth business plan that outlines every single dollar spent, but it would be nice to give people a generalized plan of where the money is going.
You don't go to banks, you don't go to vcs, or you don't other investors and ask them to loan you money without sufficient explanation. You go through a public forum asking for money, I would hope you have sufficient information to back up what you are going to do with the money.
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:19:14
But have the OG designers for these keysets... sorry "inspirations" been contacted in an way?
Thats all I cared about, seems like it took one comment to topple the wall of complaints.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:25:32
I know this has taken a different path...
But have the OG designers for these keysets... sorry "inspirations" been contacted in an way?
Thats all I cared about, seems like it took one comment to topple the wall of complaints.
They didn't made novelties of these sets, neither the same exact combinations of colors and no one owns colors my dude.
Also, yeah would be cool to design sets nowdays without making similar colors, it would be:
- Yellow on Yellow
- Diarrhea brown on Purple
- Cyan on red
- Orange on Trasparent
IC for these colors asap, stay tuned.
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:26:47
I know this has taken a different path...
But have the OG designers for these keysets... sorry "inspirations" been contacted in an way?
Thats all I cared about, seems like it took one comment to topple the wall of complaints.
They didn't made novelties of these sets, neither the same exact combinations of colors and no one owns colors my dude.
Also, yeah would be cool to design sets nowdays without making similar colors, it would be:
- Yellow on Yellow
- Diarrhea brown on Purple
- Cyan on red
- Orange on Trasparent
.....
Post by: frostbyte-gaming on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:31:18
I know this has taken a different path...
But have the OG designers for these keysets... sorry "inspirations" been contacted in an way?
Thats all I cared about, seems like it took one comment to topple the wall of complaints.
They didn't made novelties of these sets, neither the same exact combinations of colors and no one owns colors my dude.
Also, yeah would be cool to design sets nowdays without making similar colors, it would be:
- Yellow on Yellow
- Diarrhea brown on Purple
- Cyan on red
- Orange on Trasparent
IC for these colors asap, stay tuned.
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:35:59
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:41:12
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:44:26
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:45:54
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut for Royal since is the only set with the same name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
Are we looking at the same gallery?
https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub_gallery
Donut didnt create RA ffs.
im out of this garbage.
Post by: elfick on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:48:26
Their senior leadership is 8 people. They also have 6 locations listed in their company profile, and the CEO has a salary in excess of 200k. They have outstanding investments in the range of $48 million, and revenues in the range of $15 million. While I have found no direct information to be released in regards to number of employees, this publicly available information implies the size of the organization.Heh... That makes me respect them even less as they have absolutely no excuse for that horrible checkout system. :D
Post by: T0mb3ry on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:49:11
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
And then he promotes hub like this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8b4oay/buying_the_pulse_of_hub_keycaps/
and this?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pulse-sa-keycap-set/talk/2033645
This kind of promotion during a drop. I dont know how to call it.
there were also other posts where he promoted hub with a hyperfuse combination.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:50:03
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut for Royal since is the only set with the same name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
Are we looking at the same gallery?
https://thevankeyboards.com/pages/hub_gallery
Donut didnt create RA ffs.
im out of this garbage.
whoever designed it lol (
Yes we are looking at the same gallery, i don't see on any the same exact set (reversed legends, reversed colors, etc..)
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:52:39
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:54:23
That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.
You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:00:48
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.
That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.
You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)? You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:04:05
And then he promotes hub like this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8b4oay/buying_the_pulse_of_hub_keycaps/
Is that OP evan? Or anyone involved with the project?
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:05:19
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.
That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.
You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)? You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
I answered that above. It's consumption. And the funds from the consumption are buying the means to produce.
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:08:35
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.
That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.
You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)? You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
I answered that above. It's consumption. And the funds from the consumption are buying the means to produce.
So it's both... we're paying for tooling, machines, and keycaps...
Post by: elfick on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:11:34
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)? You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...I'll take a slightly different perspective from Chuckdee...
There is an investment, but you (generically... that is the kickstarter supporter) aren't the investor. Evan is the investor.
Evan is raising money for the investment by selling a product.
The product that the kickstarter supporter is buying just happens to be produced on the product of Evan's investment.
Post by: ptiede on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:12:31
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.
That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.
You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)? You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
This definitely isn't an investment on our parts. If it was we would be putting up capital not to expect a product at the end, but expecting a return on investment such as a stake in the company or a share of profits.
Post by: hansichen on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:13:06
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
And then he promotes hub like this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8b4oay/buying_the_pulse_of_hub_keycaps/
and this?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pulse-sa-keycap-set/talk/2033645
This kind of promotion during a drop. I dont know how to call it.
there were also other posts where he promoted hub with a hyperfuse combination.
And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:17:55
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)? You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...I'll take a slightly different perspective from Chuckdee...
There is an investment, but you (generically... that is the kickstarter supporter) aren't the investor. Evan is the investor.
Evan is raising money for the investment by selling a product.
The product that the kickstarter supporter is buying just happens to be produced on the product of Evan's investment.
ah, I understand. You're right. We're not investors but we're still paying for tooling and molds.
Post by: PRkeys on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:19:31
And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.
He is not a king but he is a trusted member of the community. They also shouldn't be pinned to the top of reddit for obvious reasons, but I think the problem there was more the way the admin responded more than the reason for not doing such a thing.
They can just keep posting daily updates and people keep upvoting them as has happened so far.
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:19:46
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:20:46
And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.
He is not a king but he is a trusted member of the community. They also shouldn't be pinned to the top of reddit for obvious reasons, but I think the problem there was more the way the admin responded more than the reason for not doing such a thing.
They can just keep posting daily updates and people keep upvoting them as has happened so far.
You're right. I could have been more polite.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:25:23
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name
I had no idea, green is all **** to me sry
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:27:13
And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.
He is not a king but he is a trusted member of the community. They also shouldn't be pinned to the top of reddit for obvious reasons, but I think the problem there was more the way the admin responded more than the reason for not doing such a thing.
They can just keep posting daily updates and people keep upvoting them as has happened so far.
You're right. I could have been more polite.
Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the reply. Simple and succinct. nope.
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:33:48
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name
I had no idea, green is all **** to me sry
ur forgiven, my son.
Post by: ptiede on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:36:18
I think so far the biggest problem with this kickstarter has been communication and pr. Evan and Van have made some poor decisions. However, they have also shown willingness to be adaptable and listen to us, such as when they changed the layout to include hhkb and wkl support. I think that's encouraging. I am also in the camp that would like to see a little more of a pricing breakdown just to know why they need 500k. It just helps calm nerves for where our money is going. I don't think Evan is going to take the money and pull an Ivan, but some more communication would be a good thing.
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:36:45
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.
Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.
I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.
Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this. I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).
Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name
I had no idea, green is all **** to me sry
ur forgiven, my son.
Thanks dad ;)
Post by: aznreaper on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:41:22
As for the colourways, while yes no one owns the colours, you would think that someone who has been around the community for quite some time would have asked around and got the blessing from the original designers to run their colourways in his new project as a show of respect.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:59:53
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)? You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...I'll take a slightly different perspective from Chuckdee...
There is an investment, but you (generically... that is the kickstarter supporter) aren't the investor. Evan is the investor.
Evan is raising money for the investment by selling a product.
The product that the kickstarter supporter is buying just happens to be produced on the product of Evan's investment.
I think it's pretty much the same as what I stated, just in a different way. And I'm on board with that.
Post by: Parva Ovis on Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:09:58
And then he promotes hub like this?I would call it you misattributing posts to Evan. Langelandia is the OP of the first link and is not Evan, Arhipio, or anyone associated with TheVanKeyboards. They're literally just a backer who is interested in supporting the project.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8b4oay/buying_the_pulse_of_hub_keycaps/
and this?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pulse-sa-keycap-set/talk/2033645
This kind of promotion during a drop. I dont know how to call it.
there were also other posts where he promoted hub with a hyperfuse combination.
As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:27:56
I would call it you misattributing posts to Evan. Langelandia is the OP of the first link and is not Evan, Arhipio, or anyone associated with TheVanKeyboards. They're literally just a backer who is interested in supporting the project.https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94974.msg2591287#msg2591287
I see the render was done on the request.
As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.
Good, i will promote my sets too in others GB threads as soon someone complains about compability.
Anyway i guess evan does not care to work with other community designers in the future if we consider these promotion acts. So basicaly this kickstarter is for funding evan to do knockoffs in the future, because i doubt any designer want to work with him because of this agressive advertising.
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:30:26
As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.
Etiquette goes a long way when you're a vendor/business in an ultra-niche hobby/area such as this one.
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:47:46
Even though I am doing my own profile, I very much want this to succeed.
Post by: Acereconkeys on Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:00:44
As someone who actually has quotes for just the tooling costs - just the molds - I have to say that Evan's numbers are spot on. I dont think people truly understand the costs that it takes to have proper tooling made. The cost of the tooling quoted to me is well over half of what Evan is asking for. On top of that you need to take into account the actual cost of production and labor for the sets that are actually sold during this Kickstarter.
Even though I am doing my own profile, I very much want this to succeed.
Due to your experience I believe you why does it have to be you that responds to these comments? What is so hard about Evan adding a quick blurb to the FAQ on kickstarter about the heightened price and referencing people to it when they ask in this thread.
Post by: kmba on Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:08:58
Post by: Parva Ovis on Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:29:46
True. At the same time, a single reply is not equivalent to a promotional thread/top-level post on a thread, which is what T0mb3ry appeared to me to be talking about/linking to in the post I quoted. I'm inclined to say the comment was unwise at best, but it's in a different league than if the Langelandia post had been by Evan.As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.
Etiquette goes a long way when you're a vendor/business in an ultra-niche hobby/area such as this one.
Your point being what, exactly? It still wasn't Evan who requested the render, who made the render, who posted the render in the Geekhack thread, or who posted the render to Reddit, and it wasn't anyone on the team who requested the render or posted it to Reddit. You were still in the wrong to represent the reddit post as being promotion by Evan.I would call it you misattributing posts to Evan. Langelandia is the OP of the first link and is not Evan, Arhipio, or anyone associated with TheVanKeyboards. They're literally just a backer who is interested in supporting the project.https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94974.msg2591287#msg2591287
I see the render was done on the request.
The sudden disparagement seems very out of place for what we're talking about.As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.
Good, i will promote my sets too in others GB threads as soon someone complains about compability.;
Anyway i guess evan does not care to work with other community designers in the future if we consider these promotion acts. So basicaly this kickstarter is for funding evan to do knockoffs in the future, because i doubt any designer want to work with him because of this agressive advertising.
Post by: Kevadu on Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:57:56
Kickstarting is not investing. Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful. In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards. You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right. But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been. Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.
Post by: emenelopee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:06:38
I'm really confused by this thread. It's as if people have only just discovered how Kickstarter works...
Kickstarting is not investing. Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful. In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards. You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right. But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been. Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.
I would also add: the investors take all the risk with zero effort, the managers take all the reward but put in all the effort.
It's not not out of whack in this crowd-sourcing/gig/winner takes all era, but I would also argue it's a ****ty model as the fall-out from failure is not pretty.
That is my tuppence - as you were.
Post by: kiwi99 on Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:22:04
Wouldn't mind getting a set to try it out.
Would be cool to see a new profile/manu.
Even a graph with no hard numbers would be nice to see, the secrecy behind all of this seems quite shady...
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:27:50
I'm really confused by this thread. It's as if people have only just discovered how Kickstarter works...
Kickstarting is not investing. Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful. In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards. You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right. But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been. Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.
you're late to the party.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:45:34
I'm really confused by this thread. It's as if people have only just discovered how Kickstarter works...
Kickstarting is not investing. Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful. In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards. You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right. But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been. Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.
I would also add: the investors take all the risk with zero effort, the managers take all the reward but put in all the effort.
It's not not out of whack in this crowd-sourcing/gig/winner takes all era, but I would also argue it's a ****ty model as the fall-out from failure is not pretty.
That is my tuppence - as you were.
That's why you have to do your due diligence. Crowdfunding is not IMO a bad model. It just has downsides, just like any other venture, and misconceptions that go along with the funding model. I only fund what I can afford to lose, and fund those people that I want to succeed. But sometimes success doesn't come, though as long as they put in the appropriate effort, I'm not mad at them. And if they succeed, I'm happy for them.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Thu, 12 April 2018, 20:26:15
Post by: MxBlue on Thu, 12 April 2018, 21:02:20
I dunno about the people going on about profit, it's a bit silly to point fingers at that when the sets are so damn cheap, but the main issue I see it the opposite, whether they have more than enough margin to pay for anything unexpected that arises. Massdrop gets away with little criticism with sets like MT3 because they have a very large amount of capital, such that in the event issues occur, production can still continue or refunds can be paid out. I highly doubt the 500k that's been raised here will even begin to account for that.
So all in all, I would hope they talk a bit more about their plans and what measures they have in place for possible risks, which is my main concern. If they really aren't willing, can't really blame them, it is not something you'd usually share, but people will obviously have their doubts about investing in a company that requires a significant amount of money to actually proceed with their order.
So I will conclude copying someone elses opinion, with a slight correction:
I only fund what I can afford to lose, and fund those people that I want to succeed. But sometimes success doesn't come,:pthough as long aseven if they put in the appropriate effort, I'mnotmad at them. And if they succeed, I'm happy for them.
Post by: Tom_Kazansky on Thu, 12 April 2018, 21:18:06
if it's about the price, $50/set <- pretty good price for a set with this many keys
or get 12 sets ($300 pledge) so that's $25/set, yes?
am I missing anything here?
---
I do have plan to get 6 sets, I will join in a later date. :D
Post by: PotatoTM on Fri, 13 April 2018, 01:05:59
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 13 April 2018, 06:30:05
Finally got around to catching up on this thread, I'm pretty happy to see another keycap manufacturer come around, would sure help make your keyboards prettier for cheaper. The main issue I see with this GB is that as others have said, the buyers are taking a really big risk, even compared to normal group buys on GH.
I dunno about the people going on about profit, it's a bit silly to point fingers at that when the sets are so damn cheap, but the main issue I see it the opposite, whether they have more than enough margin to pay for anything unexpected that arises. Massdrop gets away with little criticism with sets like MT3 because they have a very large amount of capital, such that in the event issues occur, production can still continue or refunds can be paid out. I highly doubt the 500k that's been raised here will even begin to account for that.
The point that a few others of the vehement supporters of the project in here seem to be missing is that this is 100% not a group-buy for just keycaps. That is why people are bringing up the angle of investment, but I'm not sure why people haven't been direct about it.
This Kickstarter is to fund buying tooling, manufacturing space, and other unknown costs (because of the lack of transparency). Not renting or borrowing, purchasing. In a normal keycap group-buy, the organizer is left with (sometimes) some payment for their effort, and the participants take home the products they all bought together. In this Kickstarter, participants are buying keycaps at some unknown markup, and also purchasing the means for this organization to continue producing keycaps afterwards. You're essentially giving out a free business loan, or so it would seem, which is why people are rightly skeptical.
Additionally, any promises made about the frequency of runs, cost of caps in the future, quality of caps, legend availablity, etc. are totally speculation, and you should consider that when promoting projects and GBs. The organizater is I'm sure acting in good faith, but things happen, complications arise, etc.
One last note: Being critical of things like this isn't being a threadcrapper, it's being honest and trying to help the community of people who are often young and inexperienced to not be taken advantage of.
No disrespect to the organizers, it's not difficult for them to clear this kind of stuff up.
Post by: Wetherbee on Fri, 13 April 2018, 06:40:19
Why are people wasting their time arguing about a campaign that has no chance of being funded?
Post by: evangs on Fri, 13 April 2018, 10:55:41
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:02:06
Greetings all!
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Well said. I hope this helps clear up any skepticism. Let's get this funded!!
Post by: ptiede on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:06:51
Greetings all!
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Great to have the breakdown! Hopefully this eases everyone's mind.
Post by: frostbyte-gaming on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:08:52
Greetings all!
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up, I know lots of people were really looking for answers and I think this clears up a lot of things for them. Hopefully the transparency giving here encourages more people to join as I definitely think creating new and exciting things is always good thing.
Post by: azachhh on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:11:05
Greetings all!
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Thank you!
Post by: Harms on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:16:28
Greetings all!The real MVP.
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Post by: xondat on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:16:55
MoreGreetings all!
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
That's all it takes -- thank you & good luck.
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:39:05
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:55:19
The Van Man delivers
I always loved this!! :p :p :p
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:14:19
Greetings all!
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.
Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"
Post by: azachhh on Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:44:24
MoreGreetings all!
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.
Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"
Holy macaroni, give it a rest.
If the colorway OG designers aren't verbally/outwardly upset about it - why are you taking the time to be?
If they are....show me so I can retract this statement & issue an apology - LOL.
It just seems like you're taking it personally that there are somewhat similar colorways & similar naming conventions being used.
While I do understand the aspect of 'respecting your elders' ... I think someone did already make a good point that they are just colors.
Not trying to create bad blood - just think this thread has seen enough negativity.
Let's either support the Kickstarter & have positive conversation... or ...don't support the Kickstarter & stop following/posting on this thread.
Peace on
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:45:55
thats a shame.
Post by: Parva Ovis on Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:49:17
Let's see, 80s Kid, Laguna, Dreamweaver, Paperwork, Hive, Heart, and Midnite are all, to my knowledge, non-derivative colorways. That leaves Skidata, Royal, Nuke, Miami, and Joker. Everyone and their mother has made a Miami variant, neither Matt3o nor thisiscamper have complained about Evan's variant on their colorways, and Royal, which coincidentally is the only one "identical" to it's inspiration, is based on an already derivative colorway. That just leaves Skidata, which I'm not familiar enough with to comment on.*Snip*
Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.
Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"
EDIT: Posted early on accident. So, what I want to know is, what are these questions of yours that Evan isn't answering? What specifically are you asking?
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:51:46
Let's see, 80s Kid, Laguna, Dreamweaver, Paperwork, Hive, Heart, and Midnite are all, to my knowledge, non-derivative colorways. That leaves Skidata, Royal, Nuke, Miami, and Joker. Everyone and their mother has made a Miami variant. Neither Matt3o nor thisiscamper have complained about Evan's variant on their colorways, and Royal, which coincidentally is the only one "identical" to it's inspiration, is based on an already derivative colorway. That just leaves Skidata, which I'm not familiar enough with to comment on.*Snip*
Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.
Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"
Its clear none of you care about the colorways. Ill stop asking about it.
Post by: evangs on Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:52:37
Let's see, 80s Kid, Laguna, Dreamweaver, Paperwork, Hive, Heart, and Midnite are all, to my knowledge, non-derivative colorways. That leaves Skidata, Royal, Nuke, Miami, and Joker. Everyone and their mother has made a Miami variant. Neither Matt3o nor thisiscamper have complained about Evan's variant on their colorways, and Royal, which coincidentally is the only one "identical" to it's inspiration, is based on an already derivative colorway. That just leaves Skidata, which I'm not familiar enough with to comment on.*Snip*
Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.
Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"
skidata, royal, and nuke are all inspired by old keyboards/typewriters! Do a google search and you can find the old keebs and writers and see how they correlate.
Post by: Zuology on Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:58:52
Let's see, 80s Kid, Laguna, Dreamweaver, Paperwork, Hive, Heart, and Midnite are all, to my knowledge, non-derivative colorways. That leaves Skidata, Royal, Nuke, Miami, and Joker. Everyone and their mother has made a Miami variant. Neither Matt3o nor thisiscamper have complained about Evan's variant on their colorways, and Royal, which coincidentally is the only one "identical" to it's inspiration, is based on an already derivative colorway. [/more]*Snip*MoreNice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.
Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"
That just leaves Skidata, which I'm not familiar enough with to comment on.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/SkiData so it's as derivative as Royal (Alpha).
As far Joker goes, that is being rerun, and aside from the base colors it is most notable for the original novelties which HuB does not even touch. Also, Filco is selling base SA sets with
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:34:52
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:35:34
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:37:43
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:40:25
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:41:04
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:42:10
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
you asked me a question so i answered. i wont make you happy no matter what i say.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:46:17
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
you asked me a question so i answered. i wont make you happy no matter what i say.
Tell you what. I think I'll make a pledge to the Kickstarter on your behalf. Let's say...the $500 tier...so you can get all the keysets, a quality 40% board and support an awesome project. When you simmer down after everything gets made, I'll send it to you. What do you say? ;)
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:48:31
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
you asked me a question so i answered. i wont make you happy no matter what i say.
Tell you what. I think I'll make a pledge to the Kickstarter on your behalf. Let's say...the $500 tier...so you can get all the keysets, a quality 40% board and support an awesome project. When you simmer down after everything gets made, I'll send it to you. What do you say? ;)
No thank you
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:49:25
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
you asked me a question so i answered. i wont make you happy no matter what i say.
Tell you what. I think I'll make a pledge to the Kickstarter on your behalf. Let's say...the $500 tier...so you can get all the keysets, a quality 40% board and support an awesome project. When you simmer down after everything gets made, I'll send it to you. What do you say? ;)
No thank you
Lol. The offer stands. Hope you reconsider. :thumb:
Post by: azachhh on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:19:13
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
you asked me a question so i answered. i wont make you happy no matter what i say.
Tell you what. I think I'll make a pledge to the Kickstarter on your behalf. Let's say...the $500 tier...so you can get all the keysets, a quality 40% board and support an awesome project. When you simmer down after everything gets made, I'll send it to you. What do you say? ;)
No thank you
Lol. The offer stands. Hope you reconsider. :thumb:
Dibs if they don't take you up on it!!! :p :p
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:20:55
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
you asked me a question so i answered. i wont make you happy no matter what i say.
Tell you what. I think I'll make a pledge to the Kickstarter on your behalf. Let's say...the $500 tier...so you can get all the keysets, a quality 40% board and support an awesome project. When you simmer down after everything gets made, I'll send it to you. What do you say? ;)
No thank you
Lol. The offer stands. Hope you reconsider. :thumb:
Dibs if they don't take you up on it!!! :p :p
I will not take him up on that, I will shut up, enjoy your caps.
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:29:32
Its clear none of you care about the colorways. Ill stop asking about it.We do care. I think a reasonable thing to do is send Evan a pm and voice your concern on the matter. I find contacting people directly is a great way to discuss things. Then you can use all your charm and maybe make a positive change in something you see as negative in this project.
Who knows, maybe he's already contacted the makers, maybe he hasn't. At least it might add closure to your discord! GL
Post by: TyrionLannister on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:43:54
How about the beige keycaps sold on basically every stock board? Or, black keycaps? Better give credit to whoever thought of white on black!
IBM must be rolling in royalties from Honeywell.
In fact, from here on out, anytime someone makes a white keycap with gray lettering, I'm sending a screenshot to Apple's legal team. Doubly so if they use the same font.
I've already contacted Dell/Lenovo to inform them that the "white on black keycaps" on the respective company's keyboards are the same.
Don't you hate it when a brand of shirt 'steal' colors combos from a different brand? The red/black plaid flannel shirt that is being sold by no less than 400 stores any given fall?
Novelties would be considered in poor taste. Brands and logos would be protected. Other than that, go pound sand.
Keycap colorway "designers" aren't artists (sorry) - they picked some good color combos from a pantone wheel and asked a manufacturer to throw them into an already existing mold.
Novelties, yeah. Artisans, yep. Colors? Nope.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:47:23
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.
thats a shame.
Are you even pledging on the Kickstarter? Or are you only here to crap on this project? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm curious. If not, then maybe use that negative energy and turn it into positive support on another project. I mean who owns colors anyway? Maybe Mother Nature should weigh in on this.
why the hell would i support clone keysets.
Just proved my point. Thanks.
I know, im the bad guy.
Nobody said that. You just can't let it go?
you asked me a question so i answered. i wont make you happy no matter what i say.
Tell you what. I think I'll make a pledge to the Kickstarter on your behalf. Let's say...the $500 tier...so you can get all the keysets, a quality 40% board and support an awesome project. When you simmer down after everything gets made, I'll send it to you. What do you say? ;)
No thank you
Lol. The offer stands. Hope you reconsider. :thumb:
Dibs if they don't take you up on it!!! :p :p
I'll let you know. :p :p :p :p
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:48:44
I just joined at the $300 tier to try and help prove that colors/colorways/keycap combos aren't owned by anyone. Jesus dude.
How about the beige keycaps sold on basically every stock board? Or, black keycaps? Better give credit to whoever thought of white on black!
IBM must be rolling in royalties from Honeywell.
In fact, from here on out, anytime someone makes a white keycap with gray lettering, I'm sending a screenshot to Apple's legal team. Doubly so if they use the same font.
I've already contacted Dell/Lenovo to inform them that the "white on black keycaps" on the respective company's keyboards are the same.
Don't you hate it when a brand of shirt 'steal' colors combos from a different brand? The red/black plaid flannel shirt that is being sold by no less than 400 stores any given fall?
Novelties would be considered in poor taste. Brands and logos would be protected. Other than that, go pound sand.
Keycap colorway "designers" aren't artists (sorry) - they picked some good color combos from a pantone wheel and asked a manufacturer to throw them into an already existing mold.
Novelties, yeah. Artisans, yep. Colors? Nope.
yall talk about community then **** on the people who actually made it.
Sorry i brought this up [*snip* Mod edit]
Post by: PRkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:53:25
Novelties, yeah. Artisans, yep. Colors? Nope.
Tyrion Lannister always dropping the deep thoughts! :thumb:
We can finally get back on track. Here is one I made playing with the editor tool using 4 different sets.
(https://i.imgur.com/M417V3P.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dbiJCv8.jpg)
I name it "80's Wet Dreams". See, we are all 'designers' now!
Post by: PRkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:55:03
Sounds like time to get this guy banned from here.
yall talk about community then **** on the people who actually made it.
Sorry i brought this up [*snip* Mod edit]
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:59:18
The designers and GB runners, like Mito for example, at least deserve to be notified, that's all clasicks is trying to say. When someone dumps time and money into making a colorway successful via promotion, marketing, giveaways and GB's, it might be a bit hurtful to see others just jump on board with the same color without showing them respect first. Yall need to cheel and take it up with Evan
Post by: emenelopee on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:03:27
Novelties, yeah. Artisans, yep. Colors? Nope.
Tyrion Lannister always dropping the deep thoughts! :thumb:
We can finally get back on track. Here is one I made playing with the editor tool using 4 different sets.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/M417V3P.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dbiJCv8.jpg)
I name it "80's Wet Dreams". See, we are all 'designers' now!
I'd still like to see a "random" button. Might take some heat off the, how should I say, "inspiration?", of established colourways.
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:08:07
If they are upset, oh well. Evan is making his own keycaps literally. That's the beauty of it
Post by: evangs on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:08:19
Clasicks has a very valid point that you are all missing. When they advertise things like "The Pulse of Hub" and similar colorways, its piggy backing of the established work of members within the community. It's not just "you stole a colorway".
The designers and GB runners, like Mito for example, at least deserve to be notified, that's all clasicks is trying to say. When someone dumps time and money into making a colorway successful via promotion, marketing, giveaways and GB's, it might be a bit hurtful to see others just jump on board with the same color without showing them respect first. Yall need to cheel and take it up with Evan
that pulse of hub post was unfortunate. That was not posted by anyone from TheVan Keyboards. Someone in a slack requested the render and steven delivered and then it was promptly posted to reddit.
I'd like to also mention that is not a flagship colorway we are offering just the product of mixing and matching of our other sets.
Big props to Mito and all the work he has done and I wish his group buys the best of luck. I mean I've gotten in on many of his buys, most recent would be godspeed and laser.
Post by: jimirolln on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:09:45
what is the issue is appropriate etiquette in forums vary...and not joining a gb and replying to the thread is well outside the line...i would go a step further and point out that interest by definition would imply a positive nature...and feel community sentiment towards other members should be uplifting...in any forum...negative and 'non' interested replies are harmful to the com and anything but encouraging
as far as all of that goes...a clear line has been drawn in the sand on this color way nazism...and i can't help but shake my head at it...being hateful about n e thing and not wanting the community to grow or evolve is not productive
these sets could be a one to one identical clone...and if you don't like you miss the point of the project...has less to do with cw than would like to be made to appear
one love gh fam
Post by: afrokobe on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:15:34
Greetings all![/spoiler]
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
so based on your new production approach of producing keys in "sets", what if one key out of the "set" doesnt meet QC. Do you have to remake the entire set?
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:19:13
Post by: evangs on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:20:02
Greetings all![/spoiler]
There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.
What is the goal of this project?
The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.
Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.
How can you make the keycaps so cheap?
Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.
How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?
The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.
Are new legends and novelties a possibility?
Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.
Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.
Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.
Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?
That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.
We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.
Sincerely,
Evan
TheVan Keyboards
so based on your new production approach of producing keys in "sets", what if one key out of the "set" doesnt meet QC. Do you have to remake the entire set?
That's not really going to be an issue. Everything is automated in our molding process and machines are very good at not messing up.
Post by: megaforce on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:27:23
it would appear as tho this convo took a left turn and got out of hand...i don't think it is that n e one is a bad guy...for being of the opinion that colorways are sacred or inspiring
what is the issue is appropriate etiquette in forums vary...and not joining a gb and replying to the thread is well outside the line...i would go a step further and point out that interest by definition would imply a positive nature...and feel community sentiment towards other members should be uplifting...in any forum...negative and 'non' interested replies are harmful to the com and anything but encouraging
as far as all of that goes...a clear line has been drawn in the sand on this color way nazism...and i can't help but shake my head at it...being hateful about n e thing and not wanting the community to grow or evolve is not productive
these sets could be a one to one identical clone...and if you don't like you miss the point of the project...has less to do with cw than would like to be made to appear
one love gh fam
love me some jimi-ism
Post by: dsaf on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:31:34
Quote
Eric - Totally agree with you (I use FN there instead of ctrl).
We can sit down about it, I think its a valid option to have as CAPS is outdated, and this is all about moving forward. Will update! Possible poll for the backers? Let us know.
Just wanted to check - there will still be every standard TKL (+ISO) key including the Caps Lock, right?
Post by: evangs on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:32:42
QuoteEric - Totally agree with you (I use FN there instead of ctrl).
We can sit down about it, I think its a valid option to have as CAPS is outdated, and this is all about moving forward. Will update! Possible poll for the backers? Let us know.
Just wanted to check - there will still be every standard TKL (+ISO) key including the Caps Lock, right?
that is correct.
Post by: Arhipio on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:33:28
I know its unnecessary to add, but when I designed a 40%, even though I was competing with Evans Minivan, he wished me goodluck on my reddit post and such. Evan respects and loves the community and everyone in it, which is what we all want in a vendor. The same cannot be said for someone like say jchan. Id freak at the thought of him running HUB lol. Lets wish the project well and hope for the best! Ill pledge tonight, thanks for the work and for addressing all these troubling questions Evan!
Evan has only good things to say about the Pearl during our random convo's about keyboards. We both really love the aesthetic of it only wish the best for you. Thank you for showing your support :). I might have to grab a Pearl in the future!
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 13 April 2018, 15:51:52
Clasicks has a very valid point that you are all missing. When they advertise things like "The Pulse of Hub" and similar colorways, its piggy backing of the established work of members within the community. It's not just "you stole a colorway".
The designers and GB runners, like Mito for example, at least deserve to be notified, that's all clasicks is trying to say. When someone dumps time and money into making a colorway successful via promotion, marketing, giveaways and GB's, it might be a bit hurtful to see others just jump on board with the same color without showing them respect first. Yall need to cheel and take it up with Evan
Koob...does PuLSE really need promotion? It's like a sentient being that sells itself. :p I love ya Koob!! ;D 40's for life!!
Post by: PRkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 16:01:56
Koob...does PuLSE really need promotion? It's like a sentient being that sells itself. :p I love ya Koob!! ;D 40's for life!!
Exactly. Is not like suddenly GMK and SP will go out of business and the sets loose their value.
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 13 April 2018, 16:39:27
Post by: PRkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 16:43:11
More
Here is one I made playing with the editor tool using 4 different sets.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/M417V3P.jpg)
I name it "80's Wet Dreams". See, we are all 'designers' now!
So the color police informed me I accidentally landed into an established colorset from another designer and I need to try harder. I am still a noob here. But hey, this is like music, all the notes have already been used. :'(
Here is my next attempt mixing 3 color sets. I name this one "HuB Guayaba"
(https://i.imgur.com/Q379VTB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QQNvUgD.jpg)
Here is my inspiration:
(https://i.imgur.com/6GRmvI7.jpg)
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 13 April 2018, 17:08:41
The point that a few others of the vehement supporters of the project in here seem to be missing is that this is 100% not a group-buy for just keycaps. That is why people are bringing up the angle of investment, but I'm not sure why people haven't been direct about it.
This Kickstarter is to fund buying tooling, manufacturing space, and other unknown costs (because of the lack of transparency). Not renting or borrowing, purchasing. In a normal keycap group-buy, the organizer is left with (sometimes) some payment for their effort, and the participants take home the products they all bought together. In this Kickstarter, participants are buying keycaps at some unknown markup, and also purchasing the means for this organization to continue producing keycaps afterwards. You're essentially giving out a free business loan, or so it would seem, which is why people are rightly skeptical.
This is actually how many kickstarters operate. It's an alternative path of funding to do things that people do with traditional sources. I do a lot of projects- many of them woodworking or metal working. In many cases, the money is used to upgrade their equipment (CNCs, etc) in order to create the rewards. The same thing is going on here. I can point you to the projects where that is clearly stated (just as clearly as Evan has stated) if you wish. That's really not a consideration, IMO. You're paying money for keycaps sets. Those sets require tooling, but you are not directly paying for that; it's an investment of the capital provided by the sales.
Post by: TyrionLannister on Fri, 13 April 2018, 17:50:12
Kickstarter is known for being a place where products thrive but also where creators have gone broke, had issues happen, gone belly-up, and more.
No, you're not an investor. No, you're not entitled to anything beyond what the creater of the kickstarter has placed in the project.
Just like anything else, you vote with your wallet on the project/product. What's strange to me is how entitled some people have acted regarding this particular project. "Before I contribute $100, I want to know a detailed breakdown of your plastic molding costs to make sure you aren't paying yourself with my money!!!!!!"
Huh?
It's a strange mindset. A kickstarter is similar, but not the same, as a group buy. If a group buy is ran, do you ask where each dollar goes? Do you ask why GMK Olivia is $160 (or whatever) and demand a detailed breakdown of the costs? Whos to say it's not $100 cost (for this particular set, for whatever reason), and the runner is pocketing $60 per set? And if they were, would you care?
At the end of the day, you are paying a price for a product. It's an exchange of goods and/or services. You put money down, you expect a product in return. Same as a GB.
You don't think it's worth it? You don't buy it. You think a Mercedes isn't worth it, you don't buy it. Someone else does, so they do. Value isn't always intrinsic.
I feel like people see $500k and their eyes bug out. "Whoa, half a million? This guy must be getting rich off this! Hey, that's not fair! Give me a breakdown of your costs because I don't want you to run away with half a million!!!!!!"
Let's take a keycap group buy, with an (admittedly high) MOQ. A MOQ of 500 keycaps, with payment at $160 each, means $80,000. If each keycap group buy had a slider slowly inching towards $80,000, I bet more people would be freaking out about it, wanting more details, a breakdown, etc. It's a weird psychological thing.
Point is, chill out people. Vote with your wallet. You want the caps? You want a chance for keycaps to ACTUALLY be a reasonable cost again? You want a new profile to succeed? You want some innovation instead of GMK churning the same crap out over and over with different pantone swabs? This is your chance.
Or, if you're nervous, wait. Wait and see what happens. Wait and hope that it hits the goal and that you can buy "traditionally" from Evan's storefront in a year. The core concept of a kickstarter is to help inventors get their ideas to reality without relying on traditional loans. So, don't be dense and say "get a loan" or "why should I support this?"
Like, come on. You can't possibly be this dense. Or maybe you can, idk. I'm surprised how some people get dressed in the mornings, so who knows.
It's all so weird.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 13 April 2018, 18:04:39
Post by: KaosJ on Fri, 13 April 2018, 18:15:04
It seems weird that crowdfunding / Kickstarter is foreign to people in this community, of all places.
Kickstarter is known for being a place where products thrive but also where creators have gone broke, had issues happen, gone belly-up, and more.
No, you're not an investor. No, you're not entitled to anything beyond what the creater of the kickstarter has placed in the project.
Just like anything else, you vote with your wallet on the project/product. What's strange to me is how entitled some people have acted regarding this particular project. "Before I contribute $100, I want to know a detailed breakdown of your plastic molding costs to make sure you aren't paying yourself with my money!!!!!!"
Huh?
It's a strange mindset. A kickstarter is similar, but not the same, as a group buy. If a group buy is ran, do you ask where each dollar goes? Do you ask why GMK Olivia is $160 (or whatever) and demand a detailed breakdown of the costs? Whos to say it's not $100 cost (for this particular set, for whatever reason), and the runner is pocketing $60 per set? And if they were, would you care?
At the end of the day, you are paying a price for a product. It's an exchange of goods and/or services. You put money down, you expect a product in return. Same as a GB.
You don't think it's worth it? You don't buy it. You think a Mercedes isn't worth it, you don't buy it. Someone else does, so they do. Value isn't always intrinsic.
I feel like people see $500k and their eyes bug out. "Whoa, half a million? This guy must be getting rich off this! Hey, that's not fair! Give me a breakdown of your costs because I don't want you to run away with half a million!!!!!!"
Let's take a keycap group buy, with an (admittedly high) MOQ. A MOQ of 500 keycaps, with payment at $160 each, means $80,000. If each keycap group buy had a slider slowly inching towards $80,000, I bet more people would be freaking out about it, wanting more details, a breakdown, etc. It's a weird psychological thing.
Point is, chill out people. Vote with your wallet. You want the caps? You want a chance for keycaps to ACTUALLY be a reasonable cost again? You want a new profile to succeed? You want some innovation instead of GMK churning the same crap out over and over with different pantone swabs? This is your chance.
Or, if you're nervous, wait. Wait and see what happens. Wait and hope that it hits the goal and that you can buy "traditionally" from Evan's storefront in a year. The core concept of a kickstarter is to help inventors get their ideas to reality without relying on traditional loans. So, don't be dense and say "get a loan" or "why should I support this?"
Like, come on. You can't possibly be this dense. Or maybe you can, idk. I'm surprised how some people get dressed in the mornings, so who knows.
It's all so weird.
where is the gold button here?
Post by: TyrionLannister on Fri, 13 April 2018, 18:22:49
More
(http://i.giphy.com/ZFJYcVE5lYvWE.gif)
Post by: Signature on Fri, 13 April 2018, 18:24:17
quoteKickstarter is funded by the users and of course, the project doesn't have to disclose where the money is going, but it would probably be in their interest. By not disclosing something that's requested they lose potential customers/backers.
If I were to take 1000$ for a keyset, many members would probably ask for me to disclose where the money is going.
However evangs has left an estimate, and personally I think it looks fair.
Post by: ptiede on Fri, 13 April 2018, 18:54:28
It seems weird that crowdfunding / Kickstarter is foreign to people in this community, of all places.Best answer I've seen in this thread so far.
Kickstarter is known for being a place where products thrive but also where creators have gone broke, had issues happen, gone belly-up, and more.
No, you're not an investor. No, you're not entitled to anything beyond what the creater of the kickstarter has placed in the project.
Just like anything else, you vote with your wallet on the project/product. What's strange to me is how entitled some people have acted regarding this particular project. "Before I contribute $100, I want to know a detailed breakdown of your plastic molding costs to make sure you aren't paying yourself with my money!!!!!!"
Huh?
It's a strange mindset. A kickstarter is similar, but not the same, as a group buy. If a group buy is ran, do you ask where each dollar goes? Do you ask why GMK Olivia is $160 (or whatever) and demand a detailed breakdown of the costs? Whos to say it's not $100 cost (for this particular set, for whatever reason), and the runner is pocketing $60 per set? And if they were, would you care?
At the end of the day, you are paying a price for a product. It's an exchange of goods and/or services. You put money down, you expect a product in return. Same as a GB.
You don't think it's worth it? You don't buy it. You think a Mercedes isn't worth it, you don't buy it. Someone else does, so they do. Value isn't always intrinsic.
I feel like people see $500k and their eyes bug out. "Whoa, half a million? This guy must be getting rich off this! Hey, that's not fair! Give me a breakdown of your costs because I don't want you to run away with half a million!!!!!!"
Let's take a keycap group buy, with an (admittedly high) MOQ. A MOQ of 500 keycaps, with payment at $160 each, means $80,000. If each keycap group buy had a slider slowly inching towards $80,000, I bet more people would be freaking out about it, wanting more details, a breakdown, etc. It's a weird psychological thing.
Point is, chill out people. Vote with your wallet. You want the caps? You want a chance for keycaps to ACTUALLY be a reasonable cost again? You want a new profile to succeed? You want some innovation instead of GMK churning the same crap out over and over with different pantone swabs? This is your chance.
Or, if you're nervous, wait. Wait and see what happens. Wait and hope that it hits the goal and that you can buy "traditionally" from Evan's storefront in a year. The core concept of a kickstarter is to help inventors get their ideas to reality without relying on traditional loans. So, don't be dense and say "get a loan" or "why should I support this?"
Like, come on. You can't possibly be this dense. Or maybe you can, idk. I'm surprised how some people get dressed in the mornings, so who knows.
It's all so weird.
Post by: amnesia0287 on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:13:19
It seems weird that crowdfunding / Kickstarter is foreign to people in this community, of all places.
Kickstarter is known for being a place where products thrive but also where creators have gone broke, had issues happen, gone belly-up, and more.
No, you're not an investor. No, you're not entitled to anything beyond what the creater of the kickstarter has placed in the project.
Just like anything else, you vote with your wallet on the project/product. What's strange to me is how entitled some people have acted regarding this particular project. "Before I contribute $100, I want to know a detailed breakdown of your plastic molding costs to make sure you aren't paying yourself with my money!!!!!!"
Huh?
It's a strange mindset. A kickstarter is similar, but not the same, as a group buy. If a group buy is ran, do you ask where each dollar goes? Do you ask why GMK Olivia is $160 (or whatever) and demand a detailed breakdown of the costs? Whos to say it's not $100 cost (for this particular set, for whatever reason), and the runner is pocketing $60 per set? And if they were, would you care?
At the end of the day, you are paying a price for a product. It's an exchange of goods and/or services. You put money down, you expect a product in return. Same as a GB.
You don't think it's worth it? You don't buy it. You think a Mercedes isn't worth it, you don't buy it. Someone else does, so they do. Value isn't always intrinsic.
I feel like people see $500k and their eyes bug out. "Whoa, half a million? This guy must be getting rich off this! Hey, that's not fair! Give me a breakdown of your costs because I don't want you to run away with half a million!!!!!!"
Let's take a keycap group buy, with an (admittedly high) MOQ. A MOQ of 500 keycaps, with payment at $160 each, means $80,000. If each keycap group buy had a slider slowly inching towards $80,000, I bet more people would be freaking out about it, wanting more details, a breakdown, etc. It's a weird psychological thing.
Point is, chill out people. Vote with your wallet. You want the caps? You want a chance for keycaps to ACTUALLY be a reasonable cost again? You want a new profile to succeed? You want some innovation instead of GMK churning the same crap out over and over with different pantone swabs? This is your chance.
Or, if you're nervous, wait. Wait and see what happens. Wait and hope that it hits the goal and that you can buy "traditionally" from Evan's storefront in a year. The core concept of a kickstarter is to help inventors get their ideas to reality without relying on traditional loans. So, don't be dense and say "get a loan" or "why should I support this?"
Like, come on. You can't possibly be this dense. Or maybe you can, idk. I'm surprised how some people get dressed in the mornings, so who knows.
It's all so weird.
There are two things you are completely choosing to ignore. The first is that on the kickstarter, it is NOT clear that the buy is all about funding equipment used to generate profit later (i legitimately am curious if there is a cheaper way to do this using an established manufacturer like pretty much any other kickstarter would do). The second is the increased liability involved because of it. Since this is not a GB and not using an established keycap vendor, there is NO guarantee at all, that ANY of these keycaps are ever produced. It's not as if kickstarters have some amazing track record where nothing missed fulfillment. Kickstarters fail ALL THE TIME.
If Evan sets up and finds out it actually costs $800k to produce the sets as described, the entire kickstarter could simply fail, every purchaser gets nothing and evan gets a nice new injection molding machine. I AM NOT saying this is likely only that it is possible and while you might think that warrants extra discussion, I certainly do. That said, based on the numbers Evan listed, I am a bit concerned that 500k isn't actually enough. I'm curious what sort of plan there is in place for THAT scenario?
I also personally think it's at least worth considering, is this the BEST profile/vendor to try this with? Evan does a good job and his boards seem nice enough, but you can't really argue that the minivan represents one of the tiniest of niche's in the community.
The things I'd like to know are what are Evan's plans for letting OTHER PEOPLE run sets:
- Will it just be a submit design and evan sells it type thing?
- Will people be running GB like SP/GMK?
- Will anyone be able to run sets?
- If so will people have to worry about being blacklisted from running sets for ANY other reason aside from non-payment?
- You mention that the molds do keys in sets, what if we want to run DIFFERENT sets?
- What are the sets being used? (what keys are grouped together)
- What is a standard kit?
- Is the tooling being built with a focus first on minivans and then everything else? Or is TKL/60% still a first class citizen?
- What is the target cost for a retail set?
Also, PLEASE stop telling people who disagree with you to chill out. No one is upset, and I don't really see anyone complaining that there should be no new profiles or lower prices. People are asking legitimate questions. I understand you want this project to succeed, but I'm not really sure what you are advocating for.
You do understand that many people are asking questions BECAUSE they are considering buying but are not comfortable with the current amount of information. You might not agree with that, but what do you propose they do if there is no more information provided? Do you want all those people to simply not support because asking questions is just too annoying? Is that REALLY what's best for the KS? Do you want those people to do something they are not comfortable with and support the buy just to appease you? Why do you get to decide when questions are and are not reasonable?
The simplest way I can see explaining this, with any normal GB you are spending money to buy keycaps, so a runner takes your money and uses it to directly purchase said keycaps, then you just wait for them to fulfill the order. With this you are spending money so that Evan can start a business, get the equipment to TRY and make keycaps, get space to store/use the equipment, get raw materials, do calibration/testing/validation, hire employees, train employees, etc. Yes, in a good outcome, the result SHOULD be the same, but there are no guarantees of that, and there are SUBSTANTIALLY more places where **** can go wrong. You shouldn't ignore this just cause the prices are good, they are good for a reason.
A good article to read: https://www.fastcompany.com/3004024/why-your-kickstarter-project-late & https://medium.com/three-pipe-vc/how-a-half-million-dollar-kickstarter-project-can-crash-and-burn-5482d7d33ee1
Quote
Dragon Innovation’s Miller says he often gets panicked calls from Kickstarter project creators who can’t feasibly complete their projects. Their creators did not understand the manufacturing costs when they set their goal. Their timeline is unreasonable, or their design isn’t actually manufacturable.
“They’ve also spent the money, and Amazon and Kickstarter have taken their cut,” Miller says. “They can’t even give back the money. It’s kind of a really unfortunate position to be in.”
Also, while you might not like people asking questions about the investment simply because there is no equity involved, but you are essentially saying "use it like a store", but Kickstarter makes it very clear THEY ARE NOT A STORE: https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store
As far as I'm concerned the risks section of the Hub Kickstarter is a joke "we have experience and stuff" is not a realistic depiction of the risks involved here. Delays, low quality product, non-delivery, etc are all possibilities. I'd much prefer a more realistic response there with details on how much money is being set aside for issues, and timelines and such.
Oh and you mention KS where people bought their own machining equipment, could you please provide links to some of those? I am aware of MANY that have purchased tooling for injection molds, but none that I am aware of have actually invested in their own injection molding machines.
Regardless, Evan's update goes a long way to appeasing some of my concerns, though I do hope he continues to follow up and address the others. I am still not sold on hub and am waiting to see how it's doing in around a month from now, but I may still get a few sets just for kicks even if I don't think I'd ever use them.
Post by: evangs on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:36:23
It seems weird that crowdfunding / Kickstarter is foreign to people in this community, of all places.
Kickstarter is known for being a place where products thrive but also where creators have gone broke, had issues happen, gone belly-up, and more.
No, you're not an investor. No, you're not entitled to anything beyond what the creater of the kickstarter has placed in the project.
Just like anything else, you vote with your wallet on the project/product. What's strange to me is how entitled some people have acted regarding this particular project. "Before I contribute $100, I want to know a detailed breakdown of your plastic molding costs to make sure you aren't paying yourself with my money!!!!!!"
Huh?
It's a strange mindset. A kickstarter is similar, but not the same, as a group buy. If a group buy is ran, do you ask where each dollar goes? Do you ask why GMK Olivia is $160 (or whatever) and demand a detailed breakdown of the costs? Whos to say it's not $100 cost (for this particular set, for whatever reason), and the runner is pocketing $60 per set? And if they were, would you care?
At the end of the day, you are paying a price for a product. It's an exchange of goods and/or services. You put money down, you expect a product in return. Same as a GB.
You don't think it's worth it? You don't buy it. You think a Mercedes isn't worth it, you don't buy it. Someone else does, so they do. Value isn't always intrinsic.
I feel like people see $500k and their eyes bug out. "Whoa, half a million? This guy must be getting rich off this! Hey, that's not fair! Give me a breakdown of your costs because I don't want you to run away with half a million!!!!!!"
Let's take a keycap group buy, with an (admittedly high) MOQ. A MOQ of 500 keycaps, with payment at $160 each, means $80,000. If each keycap group buy had a slider slowly inching towards $80,000, I bet more people would be freaking out about it, wanting more details, a breakdown, etc. It's a weird psychological thing.
Point is, chill out people. Vote with your wallet. You want the caps? You want a chance for keycaps to ACTUALLY be a reasonable cost again? You want a new profile to succeed? You want some innovation instead of GMK churning the same crap out over and over with different pantone swabs? This is your chance.
Or, if you're nervous, wait. Wait and see what happens. Wait and hope that it hits the goal and that you can buy "traditionally" from Evan's storefront in a year. The core concept of a kickstarter is to help inventors get their ideas to reality without relying on traditional loans. So, don't be dense and say "get a loan" or "why should I support this?"
Like, come on. You can't possibly be this dense. Or maybe you can, idk. I'm surprised how some people get dressed in the mornings, so who knows.
It's all so weird.
There are two things you are completely choosing to ignore. The first is that on the kickstarter, it is NOT clear that the buy is all about funding equipment used to generate profit later (i legitimately am curious if there is a cheaper way to do this using an established manufacturer like pretty much any other kickstarter would do). The second is the increased liability involved because of it. Since this is not a GB and not using an established keycap vendor, there is NO guarantee at all, that ANY of these keycaps are ever produced. It's not as if kickstarters have some amazing track record where nothing missed fulfillment. Kickstarters fail ALL THE TIME.
If Evan sets up and finds out it actually costs $800k to produce the sets as described, the entire kickstarter could simply fail, every purchaser gets nothing and evan gets a nice new injection molding machine. I AM NOT saying this is likely only that it is possible and while you might think that warrants extra discussion, I certainly do. That said, based on the numbers Evan listed, I am a bit concerned that 500k isn't actually enough. I'm curious what sort of plan there is in place for THAT scenario?
I also personally think it's at least worth considering, is this the BEST profile/vendor to try this with? Evan does a good job and his boards seem nice enough, but you can't really argue that the minivan represents one of the tiniest of niche's in the community.
The things I'd like to know are what are Evan's plans for letting OTHER PEOPLE run sets:
- Will it just be a submit design and evan sells it type thing?
- Will people be running GB like SP/GMK?
- Will anyone be able to run sets?
- If so will people have to worry about being blacklisted from running sets for ANY other reason aside from non-payment?
- You mention that the molds do keys in sets, what if we want to run DIFFERENT sets?
- What are the sets being used? (what keys are grouped together)
- What is a standard kit?
- Is the tooling being built with a focus first on minivans and then everything else? Or is TKL/60% still a first class citizen?
- What is the target cost for a retail set?
Also, PLEASE stop telling people who disagree with you to chill out. No one is upset, and I don't really see anyone complaining that there should be no new profiles or lower prices. People are asking legitimate questions. I understand you want this project to succeed, but I'm not really sure what you are advocating for.
You do understand that many people are asking questions BECAUSE they are considering buying but are not comfortable with the current amount of information. You might not agree with that, but what do you propose they do if there is no more information provided? Do you want all those people to simply not support because asking questions is just too annoying? Is that REALLY what's best for the KS? Do you want those people to do something they are not comfortable with and support the buy just to appease you? Why do you get to decide when questions are and are not reasonable?
The simplest way I can see explaining this, with any normal GB you are spending money to buy keycaps, so a runner takes your money and uses it to directly purchase said keycaps, then you just wait for them to fulfill the order. With this you are spending money so that Evan can start a business, get the equipment to TRY and make keycaps, get space to store/use the equipment, get raw materials, do calibration/testing/validation, hire employees, train employees, etc. Yes, in a good outcome, the result SHOULD be the same, but there are no guarantees of that, and there are SUBSTANTIALLY more places where **** can go wrong. You shouldn't ignore this just cause the prices are good, they are good for a reason.
A good article to read: https://www.fastcompany.com/3004024/why-your-kickstarter-project-late & https://medium.com/three-pipe-vc/how-a-half-million-dollar-kickstarter-project-can-crash-and-burn-5482d7d33ee1QuoteDragon Innovation’s Miller says he often gets panicked calls from Kickstarter project creators who can’t feasibly complete their projects. Their creators did not understand the manufacturing costs when they set their goal. Their timeline is unreasonable, or their design isn’t actually manufacturable.
“They’ve also spent the money, and Amazon and Kickstarter have taken their cut,” Miller says. “They can’t even give back the money. It’s kind of a really unfortunate position to be in.”
Also, while you might not like people asking questions about the investment simply because there is no equity involved, but you are essentially saying "use it like a store", but Kickstarter makes it very clear THEY ARE NOT A STORE: https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store
As far as I'm concerned the risks section of the Hub Kickstarter is a joke "we have experience and stuff" is not a realistic depiction of the risks involved here. Delays, low quality product, non-delivery, etc are all possibilities. I'd much prefer a more realistic response there with details on how much money is being set aside for issues, and timelines and such.
Oh and you mention KS where people bought their own machining equipment, could you please provide links to some of those? I am aware of MANY that have purchased tooling for injection molds, but none that I am aware of have actually invested in their own injection molding machines.
Regardless, Evan's update goes a long way to appeasing some of my concerns, though I do hope he continues to follow up and address the others. I am still not sold on hub and am waiting to see how it's doing in around a month from now, but I may still get a few sets just for kicks even if I don't think I'd ever use them.
So if I was producing tooling to use with SP or GMK then you would have no issues?
I’d like to point out that a lot of the kickstarters that fail don’t have any manufacturing experience prior. They don’t have any factories lined up, they haven’t worked through the manufacturability of their product etc.
I have done all of those things. I’ve got a factory that I’m working with, we’ve discussed the project at length and how to manufacture it and I’ve manufactured products for a couple of years now. Yes this will be my largest project to date but I’m not some noob with a dream and no idea how to achieve it.
I answer question after question, I give out all sorts of info and it’s never enough. You always want more.
You are upset that I will be setting up to run this as a business. If the money was going to SP who doesn’t care about the community you would be on board, but because a community member wants to enter the game you’re opposed? How does that even make sense?
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:40:06
Oh and you mention KS where people bought their own machining equipment, could you please provide links to some of those? I am aware of MANY that have purchased tooling for injection molds, but none that I am aware of have actually invested in their own injection molding machines.
Not for molds, but here are a few that were run for capital investment, in return for product.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/520589318/ti-slice-titanium-edc-knife
Quote
The only way to bring the cost down is to manufacture parts in large batches, and we hope your support on Kickstarter will enable us to ramp up for our first production run.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/690647277/stick-magnets-by-strong-like-bull-magnets
Quote
While I've done several Kickstarter projects, I don't Kickstart everything I do. Initially, I thought I would just add stick magnets to the Strong Like Bull line-up (SLBmagnets.com) by starting with a few manually machined parts to see what the interest would be. But, I decided to Kickstart it in an attempt to get enough volume to help fund the purchase of an impact press machine. The stamp press would provide a more consistent stamp impression... I typically have a good amount of variation with this stamping by hand with a hammer. Plus, it gets pretty tiring with a hammer;)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zucati/zucati-spectrumtm-board-game-and-rpg-dice
Quote
We're the first company to produce or even prototype double anodized dice and we're very excited about it.
We need your help. These dice precision aluminum dice are something that we cannot produce without your help.
We need funds to support us and our ongoing research into the processes necessary to make these dice.
Those are just a few from among those that I have or am currently backing. There are several others out there, but I think I've made my point.
Post by: Vigrith on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:54:58
You want some innovation instead of GMK churning the same crap out over and over with different pantone swabs? This is your chance.
I understand the idea you're attempting to convey and I sympathise with the sentiment, however I'm not sure this is the best way to go about convincing or converting anyone. :))
Post by: PRkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 22:02:53
some of the old stuf....
Repeating the same stuff over and over. We already established that kickstarters can fail and that the risk is minimized here. Other reputable vendors have validated the amounts needed.
We are all clear these will be The Van's tooling machines and they will do with them as they please. Their reputation also gives indication that the community will continue to benefit as a whole.
It will be stupid of them to continue giving details of how they are achieving the prices and manufacturing to then have some company in china to copy it. It is in their best interest to leave it at that.
Those are silly questions. Why would Evan have to guarantee us that he will run any set that comes his way. Just like GMK and SP he will work with whoever he pleases on his terms.
Evan already addressed what he is willing to. You come as an interested backer yet with very unreasonable requests. If that is not enough for you please step aside. This is not the project for you to back.
You clarified you are not interested if the details you ask are not provided. They will not be provided therefore that removes your interest in backing and the continued poking is in violation of the rules of this site:
Quote
2) Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.
Post by: amnesia0287 on Fri, 13 April 2018, 23:17:28
some of the old stuf....
Repeating the same stuff over and over. We already established that kickstarters can fail and that the risk is minimized here. Other reputable vendors have validated the amounts needed.
We are all clear these will be The Van's tooling machines and they will do with them as they please. Their reputation also gives indication that the community will continue to benefit as a whole.
It will be stupid of them to continue giving details of how they are achieving the prices and manufacturing to then have some company in china to copy it. It is in their best interest to leave it at that.
Those are silly questions. Why would Evan have to guarantee us that he will run any set that comes his way. Just like GMK and SP he will work with whoever he pleases on his terms.
Evan already addressed what he is willing to. You come as an interested backer yet with very unreasonable requests. If that is not enough for you please step aside. This is not the project for you to back.
You clarified you are not interested unless the details you ask are not provided. They will not be provided therefore that removes your interest in backing and the continued poking is in violation of the rules of this site:Quote2) Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.
Did you even read my post?
The last sentence was literally:
Regardless, Evan's update goes a long way to appeasing some of my concerns, though I do hope he continues to follow up and address the others. I am still not sold on hub and am waiting to see how it's doing in around a month from now, but I may still get a few sets just for kicks even if I don't think I'd ever use them.
You guys are so quick to defend **** you ignore that I'm not attacking. I'm asking questions that deserve to be asked, if Evan wants to ignore those questions that is totally his prerogative. I never once said him not answering my questions would stop me from buying, I said I'll wait and see how the buy is looking. Why should the expectation be "shut up and take my money" or say nothing? This is a discussion forum, the word discussion isn't there by accident. Asking questions, especially completely legitimate ones is NOT threadcrapping.
So if I was producing tooling to use with SP or GMK then you would have no issues?
If you were asking 500k for GMK/SP I would have different issues, but I would also have less of them, because GMK and SP have lots of experience with injection molding abs keycaps, and you don't. There are way less unknowns involved with such a buy AND if GMK/SP said they could accomplish your task for x money, I'm fairly confident, even if their estimate was off and they had to spend more they actually have the budget to do that and the risk would lie with them, not us.
I’d like to point out that a lot of the kickstarters that fail don’t have any manufacturing experience prior. They don’t have any factories lined up, they haven’t worked through the manufacturability of their product etc.
And I'd like to point out none of the manufacturing you have done is really relevant to injection molding plastic.
I have done all of those things. I’ve got a factory that I’m working with, we’ve discussed the project at length and how to manufacture it and I’ve manufactured products for a couple of years now. Yes this will be my largest project to date but I’m not some noob with a dream and no idea how to achieve it.
And in all those years of experience EVERYTHING has gone right? Never an issue? Never something didn't go exactly as planned? Never had costs bloom or projects fail? Cause that's certainly not my experience in the world in general.
I answer question after question, I give out all sorts of info and it’s never enough. You always want more.
No, you refused to answer questions for a week or two, got tired of it and posted 1 response that doesn't address my primary concerns (which is you say you are doing this for the community, what are your plans for allowing the community to use them) and then attack anyone for daring to ask more questions because who the heck are they? There was a bulleted list of questions in my previous post:
The things I'd like to know are what are Evan's plans for letting OTHER PEOPLE run sets:
- Will it just be a submit design and evan sells it type thing?
- Will people be running GB like SP/GMK?
- Will anyone be able to run sets?
- If so will people have to worry about being blacklisted from running sets for ANY other reason aside from non-payment?
- You mention that the molds do keys in sets, what if we want to run DIFFERENT sets?
- What are the sets being used? (what keys are grouped together)
- What is a standard kit?
- Is the tooling being built with a focus first on minivans and then everything else? Or is TKL/60% still a first class citizen?
- What is the target cost for a retail set?
I'd very much appreciate an answer to these questions, and I'm not really sure how you can argue that they are not relevant or that you have answered them all. To be honest, you being evasive and complaining about how difficult it is for you to deal with all the questions is part of my problem. What is the benefit of complaining about people asking questions rather than simply answering them? No one asked you to run this and no one is forcing you to take peoples money, you made that choice. Should I expect the same level of customer service if I wanted to run a gb through you for a set of hub caps? Why should anyone just assume they know what you are planning? Have you ever considered people keep asking questions because you are withholding information?
You are upset that I will be setting up to run this as a business. If the money was going to SP who doesn’t care about the community you would be on board, but because a community member wants to enter the game you’re opposed? How does that even make sense?
I'm not upset at all, and certainly not about you running a business, I am concerned that you are being misleading and not upfront about what you are doing. I have NO PROBLEMS AT ALL with what you are trying to do. I just think you should be more upfront and clear with what that is. There is nothing in your kickstarter or anything else you posted until your open letter that would indicate your plan was to buy injection molding machines. The fact that you are being evasive makes me far more concerned than whatever your answers actually are. If anything my other concern is you are still underestimating what it will actually cost to deliver.
Post by: Arhipio on Fri, 13 April 2018, 23:29:59
(https://i.imgur.com/UzCZ5SW.png)
With a minivan render
(https://i.imgur.com/R703Jde.png)
Post by: PRkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 23:46:42
Here another one. Was thinking of calling it "Purple Heart" but is looking too much like Laser
(https://i.imgur.com/wZiMOwY.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/re5HbPs.png)
Post by: PRkeys on Sat, 14 April 2018, 13:56:15
(https://i.imgur.com/8OxO3Q3.png)
Post by: G1LL3Y on Sat, 14 April 2018, 14:03:58
Post by: mkozlows on Sat, 14 April 2018, 15:29:56
guess i'm the only one who cares.
Here's a blog post (https://matt3o.com/about-ownership-of-keycap-sets/) where a keycap designer (Matt3o) gives his opinion about "knockoffs":
Quote
I know for a fact that colors can be actually copyrighted, but if you design a keycap set picking a bunch of colors from SP color-ring I don’t think you should claim any right on it.
So I don’t really care if you use the same Granite colors. Actually I encourage it! If people like them, by all means use them! ...
I’m actually honored if you find Granite a source of inspiration and you wish to make something similar.
You should read the post, because it talks about the things beyond just color choice that go into design a truly original set of keycaps, and I think the Hub people -- who are creating their own profile and iconography -- are pretty clearly doing original work here, even if the color schemes are sometimes reminiscent of other keycaps.
Post by: Parva Ovis on Sun, 15 April 2018, 23:47:35
Post by: evangs on Mon, 16 April 2018, 00:15:32
I hope there are some concrete plans for how to inject more momentum and hype into this project, as well as reach a broader audience, because the current trend on Kicktraq shows HuB not getting full funding, and the projections are even worse. It needs roughly 8k per day but barely reached that over the last four days. I have hope for this project, but I'm worried that if it doesn't look successful enough, there will be people who decide not to back it because they think it will fail. :(
we've got stuff working, but we shall see. There was a lot of hate from minute one so don't know what to say really
Post by: Kevadu on Mon, 16 April 2018, 00:44:12
I hope there are some concrete plans for how to inject more momentum and hype into this project, as well as reach a broader audience, because the current trend on Kicktraq shows HuB not getting full funding, and the projections are even worse. It needs roughly 8k per day but barely reached that over the last four days. I have hope for this project, but I'm worried that if it doesn't look successful enough, there will be people who decide not to back it because they think it will fail. :(
Kicktraq's 'projections' are pretty meaningless. They're just trying to fit the curve of funding over time but at least every single Kickstarter I've ever participated in has seen a spike in activity at the beginning, then a big slump in the middle, followed by a rush of activity towards the end as people previously on the fence hop onboard. Kicktraq's approach is not sophisticated enough to really say anything about that last part and they've always been way off in the end. For literally every single project I've actually cared enough about to check. And I don't mean like a few percent off, I mean by a factor of 2 or 3.
Post by: evangs on Mon, 16 April 2018, 01:18:59
I hope there are some concrete plans for how to inject more momentum and hype into this project, as well as reach a broader audience, because the current trend on Kicktraq shows HuB not getting full funding, and the projections are even worse. It needs roughly 8k per day but barely reached that over the last four days. I have hope for this project, but I'm worried that if it doesn't look successful enough, there will be people who decide not to back it because they think it will fail. :(
Kicktraq's 'projections' are pretty meaningless. They're just trying to fit the curve of funding over time but at least every single Kickstarter I've ever participated in has seen a spike in activity at the beginning, then a big slump in the middle, followed by a rush of activity towards the end as people previously on the fence hop onboard. Kicktraq's approach is not sophisticated enough to really say anything about that last part and they've always been way off in the end. For literally every single project I've actually cared enough about to check. And I don't mean like a few percent off, I mean by a factor of 2 or 3.
I bet there are tons of folks waiting, sitting on the fence, that'll jump on in the last couple weeks. unfortunately the middle is the most boring part of the whole thing and for a two month kickstarter we have a much longer middle. It just means we have more time to share and spread the word and hope we can get that final push to be huge.
We can do this but we need everyone's help. We've got big things we are pushing with some big players, but everyone needs to share and like and push. We got this.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 16 April 2018, 07:23:46
I hope there are some concrete plans for how to inject more momentum and hype into this project, as well as reach a broader audience, because the current trend on Kicktraq shows HuB not getting full funding, and the projections are even worse. It needs roughly 8k per day but barely reached that over the last four days. I have hope for this project, but I'm worried that if it doesn't look successful enough, there will be people who decide not to back it because they think it will fail. :(
That's current trends. They said they trended it towards 617k last week. As someone said, though kicktraq is a valuable tool in running a kickstarter, it's merely trends (not projections) based on some model, and is definitely not always correct. A lot depends on what is being done on the ground, especially with a large funding goal.
There are also experimental trends and projections tabs, with different methods of modeling. Those are not 100% either, however. What I've always wanted is for them to include historical trends also, so you can see how their model adapts with time, but they don't show that unfortunately. It's all very interesting, especially as currently I'm working with Data Science professionally (though for a very different goal), and would love to see the algorithms that they have chosen to use, and talk to them about why, though the linked article does give some clues.
http://blog.kicktraq.com/why-you-should-take-kicktraq-trends-with-a-grain-of-salt/
Post by: Khers on Mon, 16 April 2018, 07:47:15
I hope there are some concrete plans for how to inject more momentum and hype into this project, as well as reach a broader audience, because the current trend on Kicktraq shows HuB not getting full funding, and the projections are even worse. It needs roughly 8k per day but barely reached that over the last four days. I have hope for this project, but I'm worried that if it doesn't look successful enough, there will be people who decide not to back it because they think it will fail. :(
That's current trends. They said they trended it towards 617k last week. As someone said, though kicktraq is a valuable tool in running a kickstarter, it's merely trends (not projections) based on some model, and is definitely not always correct. A lot depends on what is being done on the ground, especially with a large funding goal.
There are also experimental trends and projections tabs, with different methods of modeling. Those are not 100% either, however. What I've always wanted is for them to include historical trends also, so you can see how their model adapts with time, but they don't show that unfortunately. It's all very interesting, especially as currently I'm working with Data Science professionally (though for a very different goal), and would love to see the algorithms that they have chosen to use, and talk to them about why, though the linked article does give some clues.
http://blog.kicktraq.com/why-you-should-take-kicktraq-trends-with-a-grain-of-salt/
To my eyes, after just a quick glance, it looks like the trend is simply approximating the kickstarter with a linear function with the slope set equal to the current average income per day. To be quite honest, that sounds like a terrible projection. Something like ln(x) be more true to life, at least until the project is funded, at which point a project often seems to get some extra boost.
The projections look significantly better, but, one would know what they base them on. Having said that, I don't think the lower end of the projection is far from the truth.
Post by: evangs on Mon, 16 April 2018, 08:42:43
Post by: Arhipio on Mon, 16 April 2018, 11:52:18
Post by: MaNiFeX on Mon, 16 April 2018, 13:50:45
Post by: evangs on Mon, 16 April 2018, 14:03:21
Great to hear! I'm hoping to get a group buy running in the small part of the community I'm active in to pledge at the group/vendor rate. I hope to get a commitment to you all by next week. :thumb:
that would be amazing! thanks so much for the support
Post by: evangs on Mon, 16 April 2018, 16:09:49
Post by: PRkeys on Mon, 16 April 2018, 19:33:21
http://www.tested.com/tech/826501-custom-keyboard-spotlight-hub-keycap-profile/ (http://www.tested.com/tech/826501-custom-keyboard-spotlight-hub-keycap-profile/)
Nice! :thumb:
Post by: Arhipio on Tue, 17 April 2018, 21:17:08
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Post by: TyrionLannister on Thu, 19 April 2018, 18:36:07
See here: https://pimpmykeyboard.com/template/images/DSAFamily.pdf
I'm referring to the right of the PDF, under the section "Standard 1x1"
Post by: Arhipio on Mon, 23 April 2018, 11:41:24
After reading and adjusting to a ton of feedback that everyone has given us in regards to HUB, we have made the decision to postpone the project and cancel the current funding campaign. After so many wonderful suggestions and changes, we are confident that we can organize and present the project with more clarity upon relaunching.
We visited our manufacturer this past week to see what would be possible. In doing so, we figured out a way to extend board compatibility, and have a more flexible color production per set.
We hope to have your support and additional feedback as we move forward.
We feel that it would be beneficial for the project to have the community share directly with us via our Slack channel at http://bit.ly/tvkslack, Instagram @thevankeyboards, or as always at support@thevankeyboards.com.
Thank you so much for all of your support! Everyone who has put in anything, we are super grateful to have you supporting us. We will re-launch with more support, and with a clearer description with the feedback and suggestions from everyone who has contributed their voice and been involved.
We thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
Lets change the way we type, and shape the future of keycaps together.
I will be closing the gh discussion thread. If you have more feedback or ideas hit us up on our community slack channel.
http://bit.ly/tvkslack
-TheVan Keyboards
Post by: mbsurfer on Mon, 23 April 2018, 11:46:00
This is just the beginning.
After reading and adjusting to a ton of feedback that everyone has given us in regards to HUB, we have made the decision to postpone the project and cancel the current funding campaign. After so many wonderful suggestions and changes, we are confident that we can organize and present the project with more clarity upon relaunching.
We visited our manufacturer this past week to see what would be possible. In doing so, we figured out a way to extend board compatibility, and have a more flexible color production per set.
We hope to have your support and additional feedback as we move forward.
We feel that it would be beneficial for the project to have the community share directly with us via our Slack channel at http://bit.ly/tvkslack, Instagram @thevankeyboards, or as always at support@thevankeyboards.com.
Thank you so much for all of your support! Everyone who has put in anything, we are super grateful to have you supporting us. We will re-launch with more support, and with a clearer description with the feedback and suggestions from everyone who has contributed their voice and been involved.
We thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
Lets change the way we type, and shape the future of keycaps together.
I will be closing the gh discussion thread. If you have more feedback or ideas hit us up on our community slack channel.
http://bit.ly/tvkslack
-TheVan Keyboards
You guys have a bright future with this, and glad to see you both turn around and take it positively as constructive criticism. Looking forward to what you guys come up with
Post by: AuthenticDanger on Mon, 23 April 2018, 12:01:04
I will be closing the gh discussion thread. If you have more feedback or ideas hit us up on our community slack channel.
Keeping the discussion less public by making people jump through the hoop of joining a slack channel might be counterproductive to planning and gathering feedback.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 23 April 2018, 12:14:36
I personally think partnering with some really great keyset creators such as Jessica, chaps behind Hyperfuse, Matt3o, thesiscamper, and Samwisekoi will bring in a lot of experience on those colorways and make it more exciting.
Hopefully those costs can come down too, that's probably the main reason it failed imo.
:thumb:
Post by: Parva Ovis on Mon, 23 April 2018, 14:04:34
I agree. I have no idea what Slack even is, let alone an account for it. r/TheVanKeyboards seems like a better option.I will be closing the gh discussion thread. If you have more feedback or ideas hit us up on our community slack channel.
Keeping the discussion less public by making people jump through the hoop of joining a slack channel might be counterproductive to planning and gathering feedback.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 April 2018, 14:18:58
Better luck next time!
I personally think partnering with some really great keyset creators such as Jessica, chaps behind Hyperfuse, Matt3o, thesiscamper, and Samwisekoi will bring in a lot of experience on those colorways and make it more exciting.
Hopefully those costs can come down too, that's probably the main reason it failed imo.
:thumb:
Personally, I wouldn't qualify this as a failure. It was too early in the campaign to call it that. But, they might have made their goal, and still not had the community's support. It takes considerable bravery to retrench even when failure isn't certain, but I think it was the right choice to make. :thumb:
Post by: xondat on Mon, 23 April 2018, 14:21:31
Better luck next time!
I personally think partnering with some really great keyset creators such as Jessica, chaps behind Hyperfuse, Matt3o, thesiscamper, and Samwisekoi will bring in a lot of experience on those colorways and make it more exciting.
Hopefully those costs can come down too, that's probably the main reason it failed imo.
:thumb:
Personally, I wouldn't qualify this as a failure. It was too early in the campaign to call it that. But, they might have made their goal, and still not had the community's support. It takes considerable bravery to retrench even when failure isn't certain, but I think it was the right choice to make. :thumb:
Well I only went by definition :))
Yes, definitely the right choice.
It would be great to see attempt #2 work.
Post by: Signature on Mon, 23 April 2018, 14:40:24