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Author Topic: Ibm Model M, holding keys?  (Read 4049 times)

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Offline martinikei

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  • Location: Aberdeen, UK
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Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« on: Tue, 15 May 2018, 05:14:26 »
Hello,
I got my Model M last week and I noticed, when you hold one key and then press another one, the key being held stops its continuity. Is that a common thing with Ms or is it just my crappy ps2-usb converter it came with?
Cheers!
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Offline AMongoose

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Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 15 May 2018, 08:13:55 »
It should do at least 2 keys, model-m's have 2kro. does it do it with all keys or just some?

I take it you are not able to use control shortcuts.
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Offline martinikei

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Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 15 May 2018, 10:52:32 »
No no, rollover works fine. I am able to do CTRL + ESC or SHIFT + ESC or other combinations just fine. What I mean is when I keep my finger down on e.g. "W" it types "WWWWWWWWWW" as expected, but upon pressing another button, e.g. "D" it then stops doing "WWWWWW" continuity. It is most visible while gaming, when I walk forward using "W" and when I want to go diagonal and I add "D", character stops moving forward, thus "W" continuity is stopped if that makes sense.
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Offline enrique.aliaga

  • Posts: 250
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 16 May 2018, 06:28:54 »
Well, Model M’s are not appropriate for gaming anyway. Shouldn’t have got one if you planned to use it for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Offline Kevadu

  • Posts: 382
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 16 May 2018, 09:51:10 »
I gamed on Model Ms for most of my gaming life and never once experienced the issue martinikei described.

Honestly I think the whole "Model Ms are bad for gaming" line is massively overhyped.  They may not be ideal but they generally work just fine for it.
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Offline ag36

  • Posts: 179
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 17 May 2018, 14:00:32 »
2kro's fine with slower paced game but although rare I've had issue with 6kro on some FPS/action games and of course you can't play fighting games with 2kro because throw/grab/release gauge or play scroll shooting at all because direction + shooting + bomb need least least 4kro minimum or hold throttle and break and steering in racing games. So yeah, don't play games on model m if you can.
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Model M*5, SSK*4, M13 black*1, Model F XT*1, AT*1 F107*1, Unicomp*1, 3278 *1, Leopold FC750R*2, 980M*2 FC980C*1 Filco majestouch 2 TKL*1, Cooler Master MasterKeys S PBT*1, Uniqey Q100*2, Ducky pocket*1, KBD75*2, KBD19X*2, HHKB pro 2*1, Type-S*1 Topre Realforce RGB*1, 108 all 30g*1, numpad*1, 87U*1 Dell AT101W*2, Alps64*2, V80 matias quiet click*2, Quiet liner *1, WYSE ASCII *1

Offline Kevadu

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Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 17 May 2018, 15:34:42 »
2 key rollover doesn't mean that no combination of 3 keys will work.  It just means that some combinations of 3 keys won't work.  Actually there can be quite a lot of variation even within the category of '2 key rollover' and I've generally found the Model M's matrix to be quite decent for gaming.  I've seen it correctly register as many as 8 simultaneous key presses.  Obviously I'm not claiming it will do that all the time, and of course given the age of the keyboard it doesn't have a 'gaming optimized' matrix or anything.  But it does have a typing optimized matrix, meaning that keys that are normally hit by different fingers will generally not conflict.  Also modifiers and the like are pretty safe.  Which tends to overlap decently well for what you need for gaming.

I'm not going to claim that it's the perfect gaming keyboard or anything, but it's really not that bad.
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Offline ag36

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  • Location: London, UK
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 17 May 2018, 15:44:33 »
Yes, model m works with games just not reliably and you need to know what combo don't work(not often but still enough to cause issue). No one want's to lose an life or restart the stage by accident aren't they? I'll happily play RTS or non action RPG on it through, recently I use xbox controller to play most games so I don't have to swap keyboard often buckling spring master race!
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Model M*5, SSK*4, M13 black*1, Model F XT*1, AT*1 F107*1, Unicomp*1, 3278 *1, Leopold FC750R*2, 980M*2 FC980C*1 Filco majestouch 2 TKL*1, Cooler Master MasterKeys S PBT*1, Uniqey Q100*2, Ducky pocket*1, KBD75*2, KBD19X*2, HHKB pro 2*1, Type-S*1 Topre Realforce RGB*1, 108 all 30g*1, numpad*1, 87U*1 Dell AT101W*2, Alps64*2, V80 matias quiet click*2, Quiet liner *1, WYSE ASCII *1

Offline Tactile

  • Posts: 1433
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 17 May 2018, 15:53:58 »
Allright... I had to try it.

I'm working with a 2 key rollover keyboard right now, but not a Model M. In Notepad (and right here in a web browser and this forum editor) if I hold W and momentarily press D, the W stops. so the line looks like this:

wwwwwwwwwwwd

...but in a game (which is why I had to try this 'cause I've been gaming with this keyboard for a week or more) this doesn't happen. If I'm holding W and tap D the forward motion continues after the quick jog to the right.

I don't think this is a rollover thing, I think it's something else.
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 May 2018, 10:38:07 by Tactile »
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Offline ag36

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  • Location: London, UK
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 17 May 2018, 17:08:32 »
Could be the game compasenting rollover?
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Model M*5, SSK*4, M13 black*1, Model F XT*1, AT*1 F107*1, Unicomp*1, 3278 *1, Leopold FC750R*2, 980M*2 FC980C*1 Filco majestouch 2 TKL*1, Cooler Master MasterKeys S PBT*1, Uniqey Q100*2, Ducky pocket*1, KBD75*2, KBD19X*2, HHKB pro 2*1, Type-S*1 Topre Realforce RGB*1, 108 all 30g*1, numpad*1, 87U*1 Dell AT101W*2, Alps64*2, V80 matias quiet click*2, Quiet liner *1, WYSE ASCII *1

Offline Tactile

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  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 17 May 2018, 20:04:06 »
I don't think it's rollover. Think about it: 2 key rollover means 2 keys minimum will register simultaneously. Well... W and D are only two keys - rollover isn't what's happening here.
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Offline Tactile

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  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 18 May 2018, 07:33:50 »
I just tried this in a keyboard testing tool. That shows W being constantly held as D is pressed. W never "breaks" until I release it. So, according to this tool, it's not the keyboard doing this.
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Offline Blaise170

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Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 18 May 2018, 07:55:57 »
I've experienced this on almost* every keyboard, ever. I just tested it on both of my keyboards at work and both do this (Matias Laptop Pro and Avid KB-654).

* The only one that comes to mind where this didn't happen was my Gamdias with NKRO.
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Offline Tactile

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Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 18 May 2018, 10:18:27 »
Plugged in my Filco. This is a Majestouch 2 fullsized with MX black switches and about 3 months old. It's plugged into the PS/2 port and so is N-key rollover right now. Here we go...

wwwwwwwwwwwwwd

Nope - Holding W and tapping D makes the W stop - both here and in Notepad. But gaming works fine and the keyboard testing tool shows the W being held down all the way.

So: it's not a Model M thing nor rollover. I don't know what causes this but it seems to be related to the way some programs read the keyboard. Or it might be even deeper and somehow connected to how the operating system reports the keyboard. Is anyone here running Linux and can try this?
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Offline ebonarm

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Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 25 May 2018, 11:53:09 »
Anyone ever found out a fix for this? Some hack maybe, another adapter?

I am going crazy, recently been replaying Resident Evil games and this is killing me.

If anyone is still unfamiliar with the issue I might be able to explain it further.

If holding "W", w is registered and is held indefinitely*.
If holding "W" and then activating any other key, for example "D", the "D" is registered but the "W" stops registering after a few seconds.

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Offline AMongoose

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Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 25 May 2018, 13:11:08 »
it's most likely the adapter.

what are you using?
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Offline ebonarm

  • Posts: 3
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 25 May 2018, 13:24:43 »
Quote from: AMongoose on Fri, 25 May 2018, 13:11:08
it's most likely the adapter.

what are you using?

I am using a supposedly active adapter https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B008DFVQFW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Also, I created a ghetto table (see attachments) to explain the situation further
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Offline ebonarm

  • Posts: 3
Re: Ibm Model M, holding keys?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 25 May 2018, 13:32:04 »
Quote from: ebonarm on Fri, 25 May 2018, 13:24:43
Quote from: AMongoose on Fri, 25 May 2018, 13:11:08
it's most likely the adapter.

what are you using?

I am using a supposedly active adapter https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B008DFVQFW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Also, I created a ghetto table (see attachments) to explain the situation further


Let it be known from this day forward, that it indeed is an adapter issue. I just checked with another adapter which I never even knew was active and it works absolutely.

Problem present - https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B008DFVQFW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Problem NOT present - https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000M0461M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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