[IC] Alps Party 3-60(%)

[BlueNalgene]

EDIT: GB is now open.  Go there.  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75491.0

The world is a sad place. 
The Middle East is a mess,
Cold War tensions are rising again,
and Alps switches just get no love. 
Our community is complacent with cruciform artisans and glorified rubber domes. 

We need to get back to the glory days. 



And only another round of DIY glory can correct this. 


So follow me to the:

ALPS Party 3-60(%)

To prepare for expansion of our Liberte Egalite Fraternite, please indicate which and what quantity of the provisions you will need:


1. PCB

I've spoken with the very talented Hasu about when he wants to run round 3 of his 60% PCB print.  He told me that he wanted to have a guaranteed number of [REDACTED] before running the buy.  This is a very low risk option, since this is a very established board with quite a few successful builds.  The firmware can be customized to do just about anything but julienne fries.  Hasu has a long history of supporting his work to make sure you know how to make the thing go. 

Here is the thread for his round 2 GB of the pcb.

He also has an IC for the next round of PCBs which I encourage you to fill out if you want to get a robo-email from the man himself *swoon* for updates about the next PCB printing.

Last time, the assembled pcb was $35.


2. Plate

JDCarpe's AEK II 60% happens to match up like a dream with the PCB.  What a coincidence! It's almost as if they planned it like that.  I sent a message to Nubbinator, who was in charge of the group buy, about setting up round 2 of his GB and he was receptive.  He noted that he wanted to get a minimum number of commits totaling [REDACTED] before running the print so we get a good price point.  What's that you ask?  Why yes that is the same number as Hasu wanted.  These two puppies, plate and pcb, pair up like peas in pod and you people would please me if we perchance purchased the perfect set at the same time.  While talking with the handsome Mr. Nubbs, he intimated that if we get a high enough interest, we could look into powder coated stainless finishes for the plates.

Here is the thread for his GB of the plate.

Last time, a plate cost $29 to waterjet.


3. Switches

I don't know about you lot, but I have a few ALPS boards laying around just waiting to be cannibalized for their switches.  There may be some interest in doing a bulk deal on some Matias switches.  What would you folk like, clicky? quiet?  I don't have a price check for this, but if there is enough interest (*cough* at least 60x[REDACTED] *cough*) I will get some quotes.


4. 

If there is interest in this party, maybe I will put some extra effort in and add a little incentive to join the buy.  I have some experiments going right now that would be relevant to the project.  Without saying too much, let's just say it would be taking a leaf from Booper's book for running a popular GB.  Maybe.  We'll see.  No promises here, only tantalizing hints.


5. Caps

Nope.  I'm not doing caps as part of this IC/GB.  Getting a full run from a company like PMK would require a much bigger commit size.  There are also no perfect sets ready to buy.  There was a cool massdrop the other day for full alps sets.  There might be some leftovers around soon.  Or there are plenty of used boards out there to scavenge from. 





FAQ

q) What if I want/need something that you didn't include on the OP?
a) Tell me, I'm riding by the seat of my pants here.

q) Will you be offering assembly?
a) Nope, and you probably wouldn't want it if I was.  Hasu might be persuaded into doing it though.

q) You have no GB experience, how do I know you aren't some skeezeball who will abscond with my hard earned liquid capital?
a) I can't prove I'm reliable.  I can only promise that I will try my dammedest to not knowingly screw you over.  I'm a long time forum denizen which may not be apparent from my low post count.  I lurked for a while before joining almost a year ago.  I have a few successful trades/purchases on here, and they might be able to provide a good reference if you require it. 

q) Why are you doing this instead of waiting on the original creators?
a) Because I want one dammit, and you can't get anything done around here without a committee.  grumblegrumblegrumble

q)else?
a)goto 10

q) I don't get the Napoleon thing.
a) That isn't a question.

q) What's the deal with the Napoleon thing?
a) Crossing the ALPS, get it? GET IT? Look, did you people learn your history at all? It was pretty much this or Hannibal puns - jokes about Charlemagne don't play well in this city.

Edit: 8/15/2015 ~7:45pm - fixed some mistakes with the plate.
 

[Lurch]

Well hot damn, you did it.

I am very interested.

[jbondeson]

Yes! Alps shall rise again!

Very interested.

[njbair]

As someone who already has two Alps 60% boards, I am so totally in on this for at least one more.

Will you be offering the plates and PCBs as separate items? I'll probably want an extra PCB but I might hold off for a different plate (the PCB supports other layouts).

You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.

Finally, I'd be down with the idea of paying a bit extra for a powder-coated plate. And maybe some Matias quiets if they're offered (if not, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells them for a reasonable price).

[CPTBadAss]

Confirmed BlueNalgene is the homie and reliable. Makes me ill artwork for my zine. 10/10 Would trust. Plus alps <3

[dante]

Some ideas:

I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now.  Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%?  If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.

Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?

Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding?  Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new.  I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.

[njbair]

Some ideas:

I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now.  Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%?  If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.

Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?

Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding?  Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new.  I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.

Hmm, this is a good point. Sprit's GB still hasn't happened, maybe this would be a good chance to get that going again. I really like the idea of Matias Quiets with heavier springs.

[zenless]

I know I'm interested in an AEK 60% pcb/plate.

[manofinterests]

I am extremely interested!

[CommonCurt]

You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.

+1  Would really like to get a Dell layout plate. Preferably the winkeyless AT101, but I could live with the AT101W layout also.

[JaccoW]

Ack! I vowed to cut back on the keyboard spending this year but I don't have Alps keycap sets coming in for nothing. And I should finally try some functional Alps boards.

[vivalarevolución]

Iiiiinnnn!!!!!!  I don't care, I'll load up on newish, innovative Alps stuff until Kingdom come.

[Spaceman1200]

Depends on the start date for me, But otherwise i'm in

[blcksqrrl]

I'm definitely in

[trustinkiss]

Any chance of adding a case into the mix for the complete experience? 

[njbair]

Any chance of adding a case into the mix for the complete experience? 

Ooo, maybe a nice wooden deal with an embossed Alps on the bottom:

[primered6]

Sign me up! Am very interested..

 

[BlueNalgene]

As someone who already has two Alps 60% boards, I am so totally in on this for at least one more.

Will you be offering the plates and PCBs as separate items? I'll probably want an extra PCB but I might hold off for a different plate (the PCB supports other layouts).

You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.

Finally, I'd be down with the idea of paying a bit extra for a powder-coated plate. And maybe some Matias quiets if they're offered (if not, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells them for a reasonable price).

Plates and PCBs will be separate. 

I've sent a PM to JD about plates, so I will let you lot know when I have an update.  I would prefer to do a plate which would work for as many layouts as possible.  A group buy is probably most successful when the variety of items offered is low but the capability is high.

Some ideas:

I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now.  Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%?  If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.

Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?

Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding?  Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new.  I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.

I could contact Matias about 60% sets if there is sufficient interest.  However, I'm not sure it would get us any good discount unless they produced a special round of caps with less modifiers.  Then we run into a more complicated problem.  If we start changing over to a universal plate, more variety in mods would be needed.  I think the GB would be most successful if we don't bother with caps.  This lets the user have more choice in the matter of which set to use.  ....but this isn't about my opinions alone.  If there is sufficient interest in caps, I will look into our options.

A combo GB with Sprits would be brilliant.  I'll work on that.

I think finding out Sprit's plan before contacting Matias about disassembled switches would be wise.  But I will make a note of this.

[njbair]

As someone who already has two Alps 60% boards, I am so totally in on this for at least one more.

Will you be offering the plates and PCBs as separate items? I'll probably want an extra PCB but I might hold off for a different plate (the PCB supports other layouts).

You may also want to check with JD because I think there was some talk about a Dell-layout plate buy. Maybe it's possible to offer both as part of the same order? I'm not an expert at laser/water jet cutting but since the plates would be almost identical save for a few bottom row cutouts, I'd have to think a shop would be willing to count both towards the same MOQ.

Finally, I'd be down with the idea of paying a bit extra for a powder-coated plate. And maybe some Matias quiets if they're offered (if not, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells them for a reasonable price).

Plates and PCBs will be separate. 

I've sent a PM to JD about plates, so I will let you lot know when I have an update.  I would prefer to do a plate which would work for as many layouts as possible.  A group buy is probably most successful when the variety of items offered is low but the capability is high.

Some ideas:

I know you said you weren't doing keycaps but Matias is selling them now.  Maybe you could get a deal just for 60%?  If the stabilizer matches Matias that simply means it will be ready to go once the thick dyesubs are ready.

Have you thought about Sprits custom Alps spring thread?

Or getting unassembled switches from Matias for modding?  Black Alps are probably my favorite due to weight but they don't age well and are hard to find brand new.  I'd probably experiment with Matias switches with 80g+ springs.

I could contact Matias about 60% sets if there is sufficient interest.  However, I'm not sure it would get us any good discount unless they produced a special round of caps with less modifiers.  Then we run into a more complicated problem.  If we start changing over to a universal plate, more variety in mods would be needed.  I think the GB would be most successful if we don't bother with caps.  This lets the user have more choice in the matter of which set to use.  ....but this isn't about my opinions alone.  If there is sufficient interest in caps, I will look into our options.

A combo GB with Sprits would be brilliant.  I'll work on that.

I think finding out Sprit's plan before contacting Matias about disassembled switches would be wise.  But I will make a note of this.

Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.

[BlueNalgene]

Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.

Check out the plate JDCarpe designed for the LeandreN GB.

[njbair]

Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.

Check out the plate JDCarpe designed for the LeandreN GB.

Interesting. I would think those wide-open bottom holes wouldn't work with Alps switches, since the retainer clip wings are on the sides of the switches.

[BlueNalgene]

Can you make a plate with support for multiple layouts? I'm not sure how that would work.

Check out the plate JDCarpe designed for the LeandreN GB.

Interesting. I would think those wide-open bottom holes wouldn't work with Alps switches, since the retainer clip wings are on the sides of the switches.

I have consulted the oracle for information.

[BlueNalgene]

So I spoke with the illustrious JDCarpe, and he informed me about something which I was not aware of.  The nature of alps prevents universal plates.  There are no options for PCB mount Alps, and those are required to do fancy things with the plate.  The stabilizers need to be locked into the plate as well.

So there goes that amazing idea.  Now we move on.  A certain tall, handsome moderator was kind enough to add a poll to the OP at my request.  I ask you to take it.  What kind of plate should this prospective GB focus on?  Dell, AEK, or other?

[jbondeson]

I would say V60 since we have the new alps cap drop.

[dante]

I voted other - I only want Matias setup.  Thick dyesub of the future!

[njbair]

I voted for Dell ANSI, somewhat selfishly since I already have an R2 AEKII plate.

But I still think there's no reason why the waterjet or laser cutting shop couldn't make both as part of the same MOQ. It would take 5 seconds to switch programs in between runs and that's it. Can we look into this option?

[CommonCurt]

Another vote for Dell ANSI (preferably winkeyless).

[BlueNalgene]

I voted other - I only want Matias setup.  Thick dyesub of the future!

Just to make sure we're on the same page, do you mean the layout Matias uses for their 60%?

I voted for Dell ANSI, somewhat selfishly since I already have an R2 AEKII plate.

But I still think there's no reason why the waterjet or laser cutting shop couldn't make both as part of the same MOQ. It would take 5 seconds to switch programs in between runs and that's it. Can we look into this option?

We can look into it, but I want to know what has the highest priority, should there be a low MOQ.

[dante]

I voted other - I only want Matias setup.  Thick dyesub of the future!

Just to make sure we're on the same page, do you mean the layout Matias uses for their 60%?

I was referring to a 60% of their fullsize.

[njbair]

I voted other - I only want Matias setup.  Thick dyesub of the future!

Just to make sure we're on the same page, do you mean the layout Matias uses for their 60%?

I was referring to a 60% of their fullsize.

Matias has stated here on GH that once their PBT tooling is ready, they'll be producing keycaps for other layouts as well.

[Applet]

I'd probably be in for a PCB and a plate, preferably DELL, but it's no big deal for me

[BlueNalgene]

I did a quick version of a Dell plate with Swill's generator.  I haven't compared it to the PCB yet.  I'm looking for obvious errors that others might notice.

Is anyone considering using Cherry stabs?  I think it might be cleaner with Costar only, but I want people to have the ability to work with what they want.
I'm not confident about the hole in the center.  It looks like that was present on the original AEKII 60% run.  Did anyone notice any weakness on the switch edges near that hole?

[Applet]

I have no experience in plate design, but, I thought this looked kinda neat. Then you could choose between Cherry and Alps-style stabilizers?
EDIT:
Or, is that just for the cherry and alps-switch compatibility on the same plate? I am confused...

[njbair]

I did a quick version of a Dell plate with Swill's generator.  I haven't compared it to the PCB yet.  I'm looking for obvious errors that others might notice.

Is anyone considering using Cherry stabs?  I think it might be cleaner with Costar only, but I want people to have the ability to work with what they want.
I'm not confident about the hole in the center.  It looks like that was present on the original AEKII 60% run.  Did anyone notice any weakness on the switch edges near that hole?

Show Image

We can leave Cherry stabs off of the plate in favor of the dual Costar/Alps stab design Applet linked to above.

As far as the center hole, it does break into the switch pockets but it doesn't significantly affect the strength of the plate. It's fine.

I have no experience in plate design, but, I thought this looked kinda neat. Then you could choose between Cherry and Alps-style stabilizers?
EDIT:
Or, is that just for the cherry and alps-switch compatibility on the same plate? I am confused...

This is indeed the ideal way to do stabs on an Alps plate. It will work with Matias and older Alps caps which have true Alps rectangular stab slots, as well as SP Alps caps which have Cherry-style cruciform stab slots.

[gogusrl]

I'd kill for a split spacebar option. something like this : http://lzlife.tistory.com/entry/Finger-L3-PCB-assembly-guide

[HoffmanMyster]

I put in a vote for Dell ANSI. 

Super interested in this.  I need to impress SenpaiBadAss.

[JaccoW]

What are the differences between the various layouts?

[njbair]

What are the differences between the various layouts?

The difference is the bottom row.

Dell ANSI has a standard bottom row: 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 6.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25. You can use caps from a Dell AT101W, which are quite common.

AEKII refers to the Apple Extended Keyboard II, which has a unique bottom row: 1.5, 1.25, 1.5, 6.5, 1.5, 1.25, 1.5.

So really your preference would be whichever board you have and are willing to steal caps from.

[JaccoW]

What are the differences between the various layouts?

The difference is the bottom row.

Dell ANSI has a standard bottom row: 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 6.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25. You can use caps from a Dell AT101W, which are quite common.

AEKII refers to the Apple Extended Keyboard II, which has a unique bottom row: 1.5, 1.25, 1.5, 6.5, 1.5, 1.25, 1.5.

So really your preference would be whichever board you have and are willing to steal caps from.

That is a clear answer.
I was planning to use it with the Alps DCS Infinity mods anyway so I'm probably good either way. Well, except for the spacebar.

[fishcola]

hi,
I'm new to diy-ing keyboards, but I need to start somewhere; I'm interested in harvesting an old AEK for salmon switches... are *all* alps switches compatible with the hasu pcb? I know at least internally, they're very different but I'm not sure about pin layouts across all the switches.

EDIT: oops, question answered, should have paid more attention to OP links.

[BlueNalgene]

Update: I'm still alive and so is this IC.

It has been a busy few weeks for me with GF staying over, taking a class, volunteer work, writing a dissertation, etc.  But I want to drop an update so people know where we are at.


1. PCB - If the number of people who responded to the survey is any clue, then I think we will easily reach the minimum order for some Hasu PCBs.  I haven't done anything on this because I'm pretty confident with where it stands right now.

2. Plate - Aaaand survey says.... we are pretty split on the AEK/Dell issue.  I say we offer both.  I posted a Dell mockup earlier in the thread, and I want to change a few things like the stabilizer holes on it, then it should be good to go.  Unless anyone has any requests for plate features, I will probably just use the same AEKII by JDCarpe from the Nubbinator GB.

3. Switches - There wasn't a huge outcry for a Matias buy.  So that probably won't happen.  I'm still holding out hope that we can time things with Sprit, if he is even still among us.

4.

More

[cooldiscretion]

I'd be down for two PCBs & Dell plates.  Thanks for setting this up BlueNalgene.

[HoffmanMyster]

Oops, I didn't realize I was supposed to express interest in switches. 

I'm interested in acquiring some switches somehow.  Any idea what quantities we'd need to achieve some price break?  If need be, I can just place an order straight from Matias.

[BlueNalgene]

Oops, I didn't realize I was supposed to express interest in switches. 

I'm interested in acquiring some switches somehow.  Any idea what quantities we'd need to achieve some price break?  If need be, I can just place an order straight from Matias.

I remember reading a post where someone had contacted Matias about GB price points with a mention of custom quotes for some larger orders.  I can't find it now, my GH-search-fu is not bringing up the post.

The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10.  You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity.  He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price. 

So unless we can work out a deal with Matias, the minimum order would be 4800 switches, aka enough for 80 of these boards.  And that is only for one style of switch.  It seems like a big hurdle.

[HoffmanMyster]

The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10.  You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity.  He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.

A reseller?  O.o  I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches.  Any help on where to find them?   

Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion.  )

[Lurch]

FWIW, I was able to purchase two Apple M0116 keyboards from ebay for about $30 shipped, each. One has very clean salmon ALPS, an the other has dirty orange ALPS. From my understanding cleaning ALPS switches is kind of a PITA, but you might get lucky and get a clean board. 

A bit extra work to get some complicated ALPS, but I'm not crazy about newer Matias switches. They don't feel as good as complicated ALPS, IMO.

I will be working on hunting down some SKCM Blue ALPS for this build.

[BlueNalgene]

The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10.  You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity.  He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.

A reseller?  O.o  I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches.  Any help on where to find them?   

Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion.  )

The reseller link for the US is here, and the link for Europe is here.

I went ahead and requested a quote for the bulk prices.  It doesn't hurt to ask, they might be able to hook us up with a mix and match carton of switches.

[HoffmanMyster]

The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10.  You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity.  He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.

A reseller?  O.o  I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches.  Any help on where to find them?   

Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion.  )

The reseller link for the US is here, and the link for Europe is here.

I went ahead and requested a quote for the bulk prices.  It doesn't hurt to ask, they might be able to hook us up with a mix and match carton of switches.

Thanks for the links.    Looks like the resellers are actually more expensive though?  O.o  33 cents per switch at reseller vs 25 cents per switch straight from Matias.

FWIW, I was able to purchase two Apple M0116 keyboards from ebay for about $30 shipped, each. One has very clean salmon ALPS, an the other has dirty orange ALPS. From my understanding cleaning ALPS switches is kind of a PITA, but you might get lucky and get a clean board. 

A bit extra work to get some complicated ALPS, but I'm not crazy about newer Matias switches. They don't feel as good as complicated ALPS, IMO.

I will be working on hunting down some SKCM Blue ALPS for this build.

Hmm, may consider this.  I really should have paid attention when CPTBadAss smothered me with Alps info...      No clue what switches I would want...

[BlueNalgene]

The 200 count box is the baseline price at $50+$10.  You can get a better deal at a reseller for that quantity.  He also offers a 4800 count carton with a more reasonable unit price.

A reseller?  O.o  I poked around a few of the reseller links on Matias' site, but only found keyboards for sale, not switches.  Any help on where to find them?   

Thanks for the info on bulk prices, that basically puts an end to that discussion.  )

The reseller link for the US is here, and the link for Europe is here.

I went ahead and requested a quote for the bulk prices.  It doesn't hurt to ask, they might be able to hook us up with a mix and match carton of switches.

Thanks for the links.    Looks like the resellers are actually more expensive though?  O.o  33 cents per switch at reseller vs 25 cents per switch straight from Matias.

More like $0.30 from Matias when you factor in the shipping cost.  The resellers will be more expensive (they want to make a profit), but if you are buying 200 switches for a 60 switch board, you might benefit from a smaller purchase.

Someone might still have an Alps switch tester if you plan on scavenging.  I can't wait to put my Linear Greens on something though.

[CPTBadAss]

FWIW, I was able to purchase two Apple M0116 keyboards from ebay for about $30 shipped, each. One has very clean salmon ALPS, an the other has dirty orange ALPS. From my understanding cleaning ALPS switches is kind of a PITA, but you might get lucky and get a clean board. 

A bit extra work to get some complicated ALPS, but I'm not crazy about newer Matias switches. They don't feel as good as complicated ALPS, IMO.

I will be working on hunting down some SKCM Blue ALPS for this build.

Shouldn't be too hard to clean them honestly. You don't have to desolder Alps switches to open them up, which makes things easier if you're lazy.

Hmm, may consider this.  I really should have paid attention when CPTBadAss smothered me with Alps info...      No clue what switches I would want...

This is why we can't have nice things. I try to help you out but pfft