[IC] GMK Oblivion V2 - Launches June 4th 2019 on Drop.com

[OracleKev]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

This might the slippery slope toward Alpha, Modifiers, Extension kits and SA pricing.
I don't think this is an issue to be decided sorely based on short term factors.
We all benefited from broad base set coverage and volume pricing.  Why we risk shooting ourselves in the foot?

With how gmk pricing works, SA style kits arent feasible. All this is doing is reducing the size of the base kit to fit the needs of the majority of people who use more standard layouts tkl and smaller. There is nothing SA stylized about that, not even remotely.

Nope, there have been many instances of alphas, novelties, adapters, etc. on GMK.
I wouldn't jump into conclusion based on historic pricing policies and kitting trends.
If the problem is price inflation, we should look at that holistically rather that going for easy fix of compromising coverage.
Someone earlier blamed price inflation on base set bloat which is unfounded - all the popular base sets have had 140-150+ keys.

Hate to pick on Jamon (design I like), but if I put some essential kits in the Cart, I'm very close to $200. It sure feels like SA shopping experience. I honestly don't know splitting off numpad will hasten us there, but really don't want that to happen.
We collectively buy far more sets each year, but the price keeps going up.  On top of that get less coverage?  I don't think so.

[KaosJ]

I think I’ll let the numbers do the talking.
I chose GMK Calm Depths as the reference since both are GMK, dropped recently and offers similar support
GMK Calm Depths Base Kit: 125USD (250)
GMK Jamōn Base Kit: 115USD (250),100USD (500), 90USD (1000)
GMK Jamōn Numpad: 38 USD (100), 33 (150), 30(250), 28 (500)

At Base MOQ, Calm Depths is cheaper (base case scenario)
GMK Jamōn costs 115+38=153 vs Calm Depths 125. Jamon is $28 more expensive.

GMK Calm Depths included ISO support, so add in the Jamon ISO kit to your math and it will be more accurate.

GMK Jamon ISO : 24 USD (100), 21 USD (150), 19 USD (250)

So, GMK Jamon costs 115+62=177 vs 125.
At lowest moq for all the kits, 90+47=137 vs 125.


No matter how you look at it it costs more for the same amount of coverage


it also means you’re paying more for less coverage

THIS ^

Also calm depths has +2 more keys, two 1.5 "SUPER" R4.
And we are considering a 250 MOQ kit against Jamon who reached 500 on the base, as you said, no matter how you look at it, splitting it will be always more expensive to get the same amount of keycaps.

The problem is not only prices. People are not considering how hard will be to reach MOQs sets outside Massdrop.

• Good luck reaching 100 MoQ on ISO kit, especially outside Massdrop, by splitting you are literally removing every EU purchaser from all the GMK GBs, even if you people don't care about EU, GL reaching some sets MOQs without us (i'm an ansi user in EU, so i shouldn't care, but EU's fellas are important as well for reaching MOQs)
• Good luck reaching 100 MoQ on Numpad outside massdrop on less liked sets. Believe me, if i join for the numpad and the numpad doesn't happen, i would opt-out from the base kit as well, meaning also less people on the base kit.

In a nutshell, if you start to split, every GMK set succeeding will be only on massdrop most likely (unless it is a very hyped set).
Most of the "less popular" sets that now barely reachs the 150/250 MOQ, will basically disappear. 

SA has much lower MOQs compared to GMK, so we can't use the same split-kit thing or none of the new sets will actually go through production.   

Please to all who wants the numpad/other kits splitted, start to re-consider what will happen in the future with this decision and how many keysets will fail only to let you save $15-20 NOW on the base splitted kit, while in a year or so you will be able to just get the 65%-tkl kit for the same amount of money you are paying now for full coverage. 

[otanishock]

Most of the "less popular" sets that now barely reachs the 150/250 MOQ, will basically disappear.

"Less popular" sets are less popular because, well, either their colorways aren't as attractive as other or some other reasons. Increasing coverage (inherently increasing price) would not push the sale. Sure we get less coverage for the same price and everyone knows that, but I'd rather have that, than paying more for the keys I don't need.

[KaosJ]

Most of the "less popular" sets that now barely reachs the 150/250 MOQ, will basically disappear.

"Less popular" sets are less popular because, well, either their colorways aren't as attractive as other or some other reasons. Increasing coverage (inherently increasing price) would not push the sale. Sure we get less coverage for the same price and everyone knows that, but I'd rather have that, than paying more for the keys I don't need.

Most of the keysets are exactly reaching MOQs or barely reaching it and often need an help for that. 
There are very few keysets who can go very popular (e.g. Oblivion, 9009, Carbon, emmm.. not even Carbon apparently lol), especially outside MD, often GB runners or proxies had to buy some of the keysets to reach MOQs and you probably have some of these keysets, is not always easy to reach 250, that's a big MOQ

Sure we get less coverage for the same price and everyone knows that, but I'd rather have that, than paying more for the keys I don't need.

Honestly not sure what you mean...
Here you basically said: "i'd rather have less coverage instead of more coverage for the same price" 

[otanishock]

Honestly not sure what you mean...
Here you basically said: "i'd rather have less coverage instead of more coverage for the same price" 

Sorry if wasn't being clear. I was trying to say that I'd rather buy a base kit for $100 without numpad, than paying $120 for a base kit with numpad which I will never end up using. 

[KaosJ]

Honestly not sure what you mean...
Here you basically said: "i'd rather have less coverage instead of more coverage for the same price" 

Sorry if wasn't being clear. I was trying to say that I'd rather buy a base kit for $100 without numpad, than paying $120 for a base kit with numpad which I will never end up using.

Got it, that's normal if you don't use these kits, but you are not considering that many of the people who uses a numpad or ISO will most likely stop to join your same GBs once their needed kits will not even reach the MOQ, meaning your base kit will also have less sales, meaning everything which is not extremely popular (most of the keysets nowdays) might not happen at all. Well, you will pay $0 in this case. 

Believe me, you shouldn't consider $100 for set, jamon got 500, it's a big amount nowdays. Most of the other GBs will be $120 or so which is near calm depths base kit.

[Poesjuh]

Massdrop is the only platform where split keycap sets can make moq imo. Exceptions maybe for very very hyped sets.


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[oldcat]

Do we really need to wait until June? Can this drop soon pls.

[Oblotzky]

Do we really need to wait until June? Can this drop soon pls.

It may seem like this could go straight into GB next month, but there's some more stuff to prepare, think over and wait for. Be patient my friend!

[RETURNISO]

I have a bunch of ANSI keys, i can sell it to you real cheap... 

tbh the guy you made fun of got a good point

Sorry, i wasn't trying to be rude or making fun of anyone.

What i did not explicate in the sentence furthermore. That its really not possible to please everyone with all the possible layouts given around the world.
We are spending many $$$ On custom keyboards. The nitpicking about the last 20-30 $$$ in a GMK base set. Seems to have hit the collective pretty negative these days. That is a shame.

It would be nice it would be possible to come a little more together and have a little more fun!

• Yes there will be keys in a set you will would not end up using.
• Yes you would be paying less for a base set, but in the end you are paying a higher price for each cap and have less compatibility.
• Yes you dont see ISO users complain about the extra price and not to mention import/customs fees
• Yes ISO users have caps they dont need.
• Yes its nice to have a wider compatibility. Maybe some others would enjoy the set later on. Maybe even one day you wanna try a 1800 layout.
• Yes its possible to run a GB for a 60% GMK set.

For me personally i dont mind spending the "horrible" extra 20-30$ Because i just spent 5-600$ on a keyboard and switches )

I am just hoping that the NorDeUK ISO kit can come to life even if it cost extra money.

[Vigrith]

Do we really need to wait until June? Can this drop soon pls.

Yea who wants to wait, hopefully this drops literally tomorrow along with GMK Minimal, Hammerhead, N9-U9, Wavez, Skidata, PBT Sanctuary and right as Jamón is about to end so that each set's sales are completely split because people have to make rational decisions regarding where their money is going and as such, every set sells about 1/5th of what they otherwise would which in turn drives up not only the price of the kits during GB as well as artificially increasing aftermarket prices due to the scarcity created by the mess prior; all the while clogging up GMK's production line and making wait times shoot up from the current 4 ish months to SP levels of a year's wait for sets to come.

Or maybe designers and runners could continue to pace themselves properly in order to maximise client appeasement and retention by maintaining a sane balance between supply and demand whilst also increasing their own profits by allowing higher numbers to come in at a time.

Not every GB is an ALF GB.

[etong415]

Do we really need to wait until June? Can this drop soon pls.

Yea who wants to wait, hopefully this drops literally tomorrow along with GMK Minimal, Hammerhead, N9-U9, Wavez, Skidata, PBT Sanctuary and right as Jamón is about to end so that each set's sales are completely split because people have to make rational decisions regarding where their money is going and as such, every set sells about 1/5th of what they otherwise would which in turn drives up not only the price of the kits during GB as well as artificially increasing aftermarket prices due to the scarcity created by the mess prior; all the while clogging up GMK's production line and making wait times shoot up from the current 4 ish months to SP levels of a year's wait for sets to come.

Or maybe designers and runners could continue to pace themselves properly in order to maximise client appeasement and retention by maintaining a sane balance between supply and demand whilst also increasing their own profits by allowing higher numbers to come in at a time.

Not every GB is an ALF GB.

You could’ve totally explained that in a non-sarcastic tone, not everyone knows or has seen enough GBs to know what happens when there’s an influx of sets running at the same time.


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[mrkantz]

Super excited for the set and don't mind paying a couple of dollars just to keep the vocal minority quiet in these threads. Or just put all the unique kits in one pack and let them subsidize themselves.

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[Vigrith]

You could’ve totally explained that in a non-sarcastic tone, not everyone knows or has seen enough GBs to know what happens when there’s an influx of sets running at the same time.

Clearly you don't know who I'm responding to.

[oldcat]

Do we really need to wait until June? Can this drop soon pls.

It may seem like this could go straight into GB next month, but there's some more stuff to prepare, think over and wait for. Be patient my friend!

Wow, possibly next month? Amazing!

[etong415]

You could’ve totally explained that in a non-sarcastic tone, not everyone knows or has seen enough GBs to know what happens when there’s an influx of sets running at the same time.

Clearly you don't know who I'm responding to.

Lol, ok friend, you do you.


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[digid3ar]

NOO pls keep the original plan, i need this set, plus canvas is coming next month too. żwait if this is going to run in md and canvas too, something like that has happen before?, i mean 2 big sets at the same time in md?

[Oblotzky]

NOO pls keep the original plan, i need this set, plus canvas is coming next month too. żwait if this is going to run in md and canvas too, something like has happen before?

Please help me out here, what change towards the original plan have I changed?

[Puddsy]

NOO pls keep the original plan, i need this set, plus canvas is coming next month too. żwait if this is going to run in md and canvas too, something like that has happen before?, i mean 2 big sets at the same time in md?

that's never happened and it's not going to?

Do we really need to wait until June? Can this drop soon pls.

It may seem like this could go straight into GB next month, but there's some more stuff to prepare, think over and wait for. Be patient my friend!

Wow, possibly next month? Amazing!

"it may seem like" which means probably not but ok

[Zambumon]

NOO pls keep the original plan, i need this set, plus canvas is coming next month too. żwait if this is going to run in md and canvas too, something like has happen before?

Please help me out here, what change towards the original plan have I changed?

[digid3ar]

NOO pls keep the original plan, i need this set, plus canvas is coming next month too. żwait if this is going to run in md and canvas too, something like has happen before?

Please help me out here, what change towards the original plan have I changed?

sorry, just referring to the original date of late Q2

[Oblotzky]

NOO pls keep the original plan, i need this set, plus canvas is coming next month too. żwait if this is going to run in md and canvas too, something like has happen before?

Please help me out here, what change towards the original plan have I changed?

sorry, just referring to the original date of late Q2

And it's still heading towards that...?

It appears that "it may seem like" was wildly misunderstood as "it is"

[Puddsy]

NOO pls keep the original plan, i need this set, plus canvas is coming next month too. żwait if this is going to run in md and canvas too, something like has happen before?

Please help me out here, what change towards the original plan have I changed?

sorry, just referring to the original date of late Q2

And it's still heading towards that...?

It appears that "it may seem like" was wildly misunderstood as "it is"

this is why people love sensational reporting

[digid3ar]

sorry, i got confused so fast  , but pls dont mind me a just keep the awesome work.

[langstonhuge]

The demand for the original GMK Oblivion is fierce - I've been trying to find a set on mechmarket, but at $250+, they still get sold within 5 min.

I'll echo others on here - please please offer non-git monochrome modifiers.

[oh_chesteroni]

You could’ve totally explained that in a non-sarcastic tone, not everyone knows or has seen enough GBs to know what happens when there’s an influx of sets running at the same time.

Clearly you don't know who I'm responding to.

I just want to kiss you sometimes, Virgrith.

[turbo_tim]

loads of interest in several kits

[AlcoholEnthusiast]

In a nutshell, if you start to split, every GMK set succeeding will be only on massdrop most likely (unless it is a very hyped set).
Most of the "less popular" sets that now barely reachs the 150/250 MOQ, will basically disappear. 

Idk that seems like a pretty dramatic projection to me

Like others have mentioned, this kind of split is really only feasible on hyped MD drops like this will be. Other drops like Calm Depths, Bento, etc could not afford to have this kind of split. But in a big set like this it makes sense to split it off, because the total value saved by 60-75% users not having to buy numpads will absolutely dwarf the savings of the small percentage of numpad users not having to buy an extra kit.

Only a few kits per year are this popular and can afford to make these kind of splits, and it makes more sense to take advantage of these savings imo.

[jani80k]

Hi,

I'm in for a Kit including ISO NOR DE!

Best,
Jani from Hamburg

[_GMK_]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

[Remsky]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

This might the slippery slope toward Alpha, Modifiers, Extension kits and SA pricing.
I don't think this is an issue to be decided sorely based on short term factors.
We all benefited from broad base set coverage and volume pricing.  Why we risk shooting ourselves in the foot?

With how gmk pricing works, SA style kits arent feasible. All this is doing is reducing the size of the base kit to fit the needs of the majority of people who use more standard layouts tkl and smaller. There is nothing SA stylized about that, not even remotely.

Nope, there have been many instances of alphas, novelties, adapters, etc. on GMK.
I wouldn't jump into conclusion based on historic pricing policies and kitting trends.
If the problem is price inflation, we should look at that holistically rather that going for easy fix of compromising coverage.
Someone earlier blamed price inflation on base set bloat which is unfounded - all the popular base sets have had 140-150+ keys.

Hate to pick on Jamon (design I like), but if I put some essential kits in the Cart, I'm very close to $200. It sure feels like SA shopping experience. I honestly don't know splitting off numpad will hasten us there, but really don't want that to happen.
We collectively buy far more sets each year, but the price keeps going up.  On top of that get less coverage?  I don't think so.

What kits are essential? How are they costing 200 USD? Let's say jamon stays at 250 MOQ price (it'll prob make it to 500 due to MD buying up sets, vendors, etc) and that you buy both the split/40s kit and the numpad kit. That is ~202 USD. But who is going to buy both? You might as well buy another base kit at that point as well.

Let's say you consider "essential" to be base + novelties and spacebar kit. Lets say that because you like novelties so much, you buy all the kits. Assume the base kit still has a 250 MOQ price. Thats around 228 USD for base plus 4 other kits. GMK red samurai base with novelties and spacebars costed around 215 USD. Keep in mind that GMK samurai's base kit hit its 500 MOQ price drop point, while jamon has not yet.

Since jamon will probably make it to 500 MOQ, minus all of my jamon price calculations by 15 USD. There is nothing crazy about those numbers considering what you are paying for.

If GMK pricing and kitting was going to become like SP, it would have happened a long time ago with all the additional add-on alpha and mod kits. Except it hasn't.

Another point I want to make that a lot of people seem to miss is that more coverage = better. It's not about the amount of coverage a kit has, it's about how much of it is really used. How many boards does the average enthusiast have that make use of a numpad? Or 40's/split? The vast number of people use standard layouts ranging from 60-tkl. Out of all those standard users, they might have some boards bigger than a tkl like an 1800, but they can only put one numpad on it. So the numpad from one set they bought gets used while the others collect dust or eventually replace the current set on the 1800, which just starts the process over again. That is a lot of wasted keys, and even more so money wise. Same deal with including ISO in base kits, hell, not even Nautilus was able to reach the minimum MOQ for ISO, and it reached 1900 base sets which got it a low price of 100 USD. In the past when the community was smaller and had less crazy layouts, people were arguing over if 65% support should be included in the base kit of sets and now it's a common occurrence. Now I think we are at the point of too much coverage as the norm. Why do people need 6U spacebars in base kits? Why is ISO included? Why are there numpads sitting around being wasted by the majority of users?

Its funny because people said that adding more keys to sets in the past would make their pricing too expensive. Funny where we have ended up now, I guess people just don't like change.

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

There are also 4 people who would ever use ISO.

[Oblotzky]

I appreciate the discussion, but there's a lot of speculation when it comes to pricing and such, so it feels rather pointless to draw it out over another 2 more pages. Personally, I am not a big fan of splitting off the Numpad for this buy. But I will base my final decision on this matter not on feelings, but on data. I intend to do the following:

#1 Analyze sales data of previous drops to determine the average use of Numpads (e.g. SA Oblivion had a ratio of about 1 Numpad per 3 Alphas kit sold, so 33% in this case, I will of course take multiple drops into account for this)
#2 Have pricing calculated for both Base Kit including Numpad, and Base Kit excluding Numpad and a separate Numpad kit

I will then see how much of a difference it actually makes in pricing to remove it, and compare with #1 to see if such a split makes sense.

This will take some time, the drop is still at least a few months off so I wouldn't expect a decision on this in the next week or so, though I do intend to have the first round of pricing done way ahead of the drop so I can adjust things still. Yanbo has to prioritize next months drop of course so this is not something he will jump on immediately.

That is all for now on this matter from me. Thank you for everyone's enthusiasm. 

[duckboi]

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

For naming yourself GMK, you sure you sure don't know much about GMK.

[kolyz]

I appreciate the discussion, but there's a lot of speculation when it comes to pricing and such, so it feels rather pointless to draw it out over another 2 more pages. Personally, I am not a big fan of splitting off the Numpad for this buy. But I will base my final decision on this matter not on feelings, but on data. I intend to do the following:

#1 Analyze sales data of previous drops to determine the average use of Numpads (e.g. SA Oblivion had a ratio of about 1 Numpad per 3 Alphas kit sold, so 33% in this case, I will of course take multiple drops into account for this)
#2 Have pricing calculated for both Base Kit including Numpad, and Base Kit excluding Numpad and a separate Numpad kit

I will then see how much of a difference it actually makes in pricing to remove it, and compare with #1 to see if such a split makes sense.

This will take some time, the drop is still at least a few months off so I wouldn't expect a decision on this in the next week or so, though I do intend to have the first round of pricing done way ahead of the drop so I can adjust things still. Yanbo has to prioritize next months drop of course so this is not something he will jump on immediately.

That is all for now on this matter from me. Thank you for everyone's enthusiasm. 

Thanks for giving us more info on your thought process! Personally, I am super excited for GMK Oblivion v2 and I will be joining this drop no matter what! Keep up the good work. 

[xondat]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

Let's use Jamon as the example.

391 base kits, with only 16 ISO kits.

If we're presuming ISO adds $2.5 to a base kits, that's $977.50. Only 16 people use those, so maybe those should pay the cost of $61.09 each for everyone to have ISO.

I'd say that's fair

[Zacharius]

Can't wait for this!

[Puddsy]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

Let's use Jamon as the example.

391 base kits, with only 16 ISO kits.

If we're presuming ISO adds $2.5 to a base kits, that's $977.50. Only 16 people use those, so maybe those should pay the cost of $61.09 each for everyone to have ISO.

I'd say that's fair

for once i agree with xondat

[megaforce]

ne japanese mods avial? 

[RETURNISO]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

Let's use Jamon as the example.

391 base kits, with only 16 ISO kits.

If we're presuming ISO adds $2.5 to a base kits, that's $977.50. Only 16 people use those, so maybe those should pay the cost of $61.09 each for everyone to have ISO.

I'd say that's fair

ISO n NorDeUK support is already in a separate kit no? No biggie

Comparing to Jamon is a little tough on the rest of the ISO users.. Jamon has a fairly distinguish color scheme and the ISO kit only support 1 country.

I am not sure if the debate is to have UK ISO in the base set. But for me I like the bigger ISO kit with NorDeUK support.

[xondat]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

Let's use Jamon as the example.

391 base kits, with only 16 ISO kits.

If we're presuming ISO adds $2.5 to a base kits, that's $977.50. Only 16 people use those, so maybe those should pay the cost of $61.09 each for everyone to have ISO.

I'd say that's fair

ISO n NorDeUK support is already in a separate kit no? No biggie

Comparing to Jamon is a little tough on the rest of the ISO users.. Jamon has a fairly distinguish color scheme and the ISO kit only support 1 country.

I am not sure if the debate is to have UK ISO in the base set. But for me I like the bigger ISO kit with NorDeUK support.

GMKs point was that ISO compatibility is low cost and should be in the base kit.

Jamon was used only for approximate numbers of non-ISO vs ISO users.

[RETURNISO]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

Let's use Jamon as the example.

391 base kits, with only 16 ISO kits.

If we're presuming ISO adds $2.5 to a base kits, that's $977.50. Only 16 people use those, so maybe those should pay the cost of $61.09 each for everyone to have ISO.

I'd say that's fair

ISO n NorDeUK support is already in a separate kit no? No biggie

Comparing to Jamon is a little tough on the rest of the ISO users.. Jamon has a fairly distinguish color scheme and the ISO kit only support 1 country.

I am not sure if the debate is to have UK ISO in the base set. But for me I like the bigger ISO kit with NorDeUK support.

GMKs point was that ISO compatibility is low cost and should be in the base kit.

Jamon was used only for approximate numbers of non-ISO vs ISO users.

Cool, check
I just look forward to Oblivion! Put more keys in it! More kits! MORE Oblivion! <3

[KaosJ]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

ISO needs 4 keys. That's 2.5 USD.

Let's use Jamon as the example.

391 base kits, with only 16 ISO kits.

If we're presuming ISO adds $2.5 to a base kits, that's $977.50. Only 16 people use those, so maybe those should pay the cost of $61.09 each for everyone to have ISO.

I'd say that's fair

Too tired to understand if it was a sarcastic reply to the nosense commment by ninjacore. 

To you ninjaduder:
I don't use 40% of the keys, so let everyone else pay for it right?
Who needs the 6u anyway?
Who needs 1489 stepped caps lock keys?
Who needs many other keys? 
Let's remove all these minority keys since the majority doesn't use these, let's put all these keys in the same kit which will be called "The Minority Fair Kit", priced $785.

Also Jamon is on Massdrop, ofc ISO kits bought are even less than ISO folks

For people comparing the numpad of the Jamon kit, stop doing it, it's a bad example, Numpad is usually 1/3 of the alphas and x3/x7 of the 40%+plank kit joined, while on jamon "Forties and Split" has the same numbers of the numpad.

[KaosJ]

Not every GB is an ALF GB.

Oucchhh  )
So true...

[ninjacore]

Exactly - the folks who need ISO/numpad support pay for it, rather than everyone in the entire buy subsidizing the additional cost for caps they will never use.

Too tired to understand if it was a sarcastic reply to the nosense commment by ninjacore. 

To you ninjaduder:
I don't use 40% of the keys, so let everyone else pay for it right?
Who needs the 6u anyway?
Who needs 1489 stepped caps lock keys?
Who needs many other keys? 
Let's remove all these minority keys since the majority doesn't use these, let's put all these keys in the same kit which will be called "The Minority Fair Kit", priced $785.

Also Jamon is on Massdrop, ofc ISO kits bought are even less than ISO folks

For people comparing the numpad of the Jamon kit, stop doing it, it's a bad example, Numpad is usually 1/3 of the alphas and x3/x7 of the 40%+plank kit joined, while on jamon "Forties and Split" has the same numbers of the numpad.

Not sure how what I said can be considered nonsense?  I don't need most of the caps in a typical GMK set (including all the ones you mentioned hyperbolically).  A small number of users do.  Because those "minority" caps won't get made without a certain number of them being requested, they are rolled into the base kit and everyone participating in the buy splits the additional cost, even the majority of those who won't be using the caps.  That's ... basically the definition of a subsidy.

That said, I'm honestly fine with it.  I have paid and will continue to pay whatever price is asked for the sets that I want and I don't really care if it's $100 or $200 - at either price point, we're well beyond the point of diminishing returns in this hobby.  To say that we aren't subsidizing the cost of "minority" kits would be disingenuous, though.

[Oblotzky]

Smol update. I'm ignoring the Numpad situation for now, this kit update is with the assumption that I'm keeping it in the base. Regular modifiers are back, Monochrome Base kicked and instead we have Monochrome Modifiers like in V1. Mod kits and Hagoromo alphas can be bought to fill 60%/HHKB, and since someone will be asking: I will not add nav keys&arrows to add 65% to that list. Git Base + 1 Mod Kit + Hagoromo Alphas seem like a great deal to fill a TKL and a 65% for example.

The NorDeUK kit has not been updated yet, regular mods would need to be added to it to stay in its current form, but I'm working out what coverage that kit should end up having first so I don't want to bother updating it right now.

I've updated the first post, but you can check the important kits here:

[oldcat]

Smol update. I'm ignoring the Numpad situation for now, this kit update is with the assumption that I'm keeping it in the base. Regular modifiers are back, Monochrome Base kicked and instead we have Monochrome Modifiers like in V1. Mod kits and Hagoromo alphas can be bought to fill 60%/HHKB, and since someone will be asking: I will not add nav keys&arrows to add 65% to that list. Git Base + 1 Mod Kit + Hagoromo Alphas seem like a great deal to fill a TKL and a 65% for example.

The NorDeUK kit has not been updated yet, regular mods would need to be added to it to stay in its current form, but I'm working out what coverage that kit should end up having first so I don't want to bother updating it right now.

I've updated the first post, but you can check the important kits here:

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Great!

Curious if regular modifiers + Hagoromo Alpha will be much more expensive than a base set. Plan to buy both colorways and both mods

[Gati]

Regular modifiers are back

Definitely in now

[Acereconkeys]

Great kit update! Woooooooooooo can't wait for this GB

[onefivenine]

That is all, now please tell me,

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Yes.

[vicissitude]

Have a feeling that most of kits will be in my cart.
So charming.
Outstanding work. Thank you.