Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.

[Bucake]

I was wondering what sensor (or mouse) I should get for 1200/1400dpi and 100% in-game mouse sensitivity.

Edit: I am a user of a laser mouse with accelr. turned off (I can't tell if thats 100% legit) and I am wondering if switching to optical will make a difference.

optical gives you more precise cursor-movement, it's basically that simple.
especially for gaming, optical beats laser.

though, it's sort of impossible to know what you mean with "1200/1400 dpi and 100% sensitivity", because every single game has its own code for sensitivity.
meaning that game X at max. sensitivity will be 100 times faster than game Y at max. sensitivity.

that said; if you really want 1200-1400 dpi then i suggest getting a mouse that has software available for it. (because very few mice have a dpi-step around 1200-1400, without software.)
two companies that come to mind are Logitech and Razer, they have mice and software that are very customizable.
there are probably a bunch of mice out there with the pmw3310 sensor that are also capable of 1200-1400 dpi with software, but none come to mind right now..

[ZFR]

it's 800 and 4000 for the G400S. (it was the G400 that has 800 and 3600.)

i suggest taking your question about interpolation over to overclock.net.
in the mice section, they have a bunch of very knowledgeable people.

Thanks.

[MrRooks]

Does anyone have information on the sensor in the g600? I have that mouse and love it to death. The big downside being the weight. I just learned there are some weights on the inside. I ordered a PTFE sheet so I can replace the feet after I take it apart to remove the weights. I love the button for the ring finger, that's probably my favorite thing about the mouse. I don't even play MMOs(anymore) I just like having that many buttons for everything.

[Bucake]

Avago ADNS-9800 (i think logitech calls their implementation of it the S9808)
it's a laser sensor, thus has the expected "speed-related accuracy variance" (commonly referred to as 'acceleration').
apparently has(had) some input lag, but maybe this has been fixed(?)

i guess it's not bad, but certainly not great :-)

[MrRooks]

Avago ADNS-9800 (i think logitech calls their implementation of it the S9808)
it's a laser sensor, thus has the expected "speed-related accuracy variance" (commonly referred to as 'acceleration').
apparently has(had) some input lag, but maybe this has been fixed(?)

i guess it's not bad, but certainly not great :-)

Thanks for that information. I wish it had a better sensor though.

Though it's probably good enough for the gaming I do. I don't do anything competitive, the most mouse based game I play is Smite.

I did take the weights out of it and wow what a difference. I bought a sheet of PTFE with adhesive back and made my own feet.

[MaximilianKohler]

The FinalMouse and Ninox Aurora should be added to the OP.

[silk186]

I've searched through this thread but haven't found a very clear answer. I currently use a Logitech MX518 and an anywehre MX. My last few mice have all been MX518. I really enjoy the 5 button layout but the mouse is too slow (low DPI) even when mouse sensitivity is turned up in windows. At default it crawls along. The anywhere MX has a great sensor and I use it around the livingroom, soft, pant leg and kitchen table. It surves my need as a mobile mouse. I would like to replace my Logitech MX518 but don't know which models I should consider. The Logitech G400S seems like an obvious (ugly) choice. I want a similar right handed shape with a 5 button layout. I would prefer a better scroll wheel and like the wheel on the anywhere MX. I require a better sensor, preferably one that works on most surfaces. I've seen the Zowie FK1 mentioned in this thread. What are the recommended MX518 upgrades?

[iLLucionist]

I've searched through this thread but haven't found a very clear answer. I currently use a Logitech MX518 and an anywehre MX. My last few mice have all been MX518. I really enjoy the 5 button layout but the mouse is too slow (low DPI) even when mouse sensitivity is turned up in windows. At default it crawls along. The anywhere MX has a great sensor and I use it around the livingroom, soft, pant leg and kitchen table. It surves my need as a mobile mouse. I would like to replace my Logitech MX518 but don't know which models I should consider. The Logitech G400S seems like an obvious (ugly) choice. I want a similar right handed shape with a 5 button layout. I would prefer a better scroll wheel and like the wheel on the anywhere MX. I require a better sensor, preferably one that works on most surfaces. I've seen the Zowie FK1 mentioned in this thread. What are the recommended MX518 upgrades?

Have you looked into the Mionix Naos 7000 (using a Avior 7000 myself)? It features the IMHO best-of-all-time sensor ADNS-3310 sensor.

I've used the G400s for a year and really hated the smoothing in that thing (i.e., the lag when starting to move the mouse). It oftentimes led me to miss click a button just because the mouse just went over the button instead of on it, etc. The smoothing drove me away from that mouse. When I started using the Avior 7000, I felt so relieved because the smoothing wasn't there and the mouse movements are just spot on. I also play some FPS (regularly though, not a hardcore gamer) and it feels just right for me.

[silk186]

I will look into the Mionix Naos 7000 thought it is a bit on the expensive side but sometimes you need to pay for quality.

[iLLucionist]

I will look into the Mionix Naos 7000 thought it is a bit on the expensive side but sometimes you need to pay for quality.

In my experience it is great quality and I have three of them, 2 which I use daily and the other one used by my GF daily. No visible sign of wear even though this thing is rubber coated, mouse feet still awesome, and scroll wheel also great. The only thing that varies with the Naos 7000 is how stiff the scroll wheel is in the beginning, but to my feel they are almost the same across the 3 I have.

[MaximilianKohler]

I've searched through this thread but haven't found a very clear answer. I currently use a Logitech MX518 and an anywehre MX. My last few mice have all been MX518. I really enjoy the 5 button layout but the mouse is too slow (low DPI) even when mouse sensitivity is turned up in windows. At default it crawls along. The anywhere MX has a great sensor and I use it around the livingroom, soft, pant leg and kitchen table. It surves my need as a mobile mouse. I would like to replace my Logitech MX518 but don't know which models I should consider. The Logitech G400S seems like an obvious (ugly) choice. I want a similar right handed shape with a 5 button layout. I would prefer a better scroll wheel and like the wheel on the anywhere MX. I require a better sensor, preferably one that works on most surfaces. I've seen the Zowie FK1 mentioned in this thread. What are the recommended MX518 upgrades?

lol. Put window's slider in the middle, uncheck "enhance pointer precision", then set the 518 to the max dpi setting. That's extremely high.

[whentheclouds]

apparently the earliest batch of 3310 models (Avior/NAOS 7000, Zowie FK1, SS Rival etc.) are still the premier mice on the market. this was one and a half year ago, i was quite surprised to see the mouse landscape remaining the same since i stopped following it

[MaximilianKohler]

That's not really correct.

The FK1 was one of the worst implementations of the 3310. Zowie seems to have improved their 3310 in their newer mice. Rival is also definitely not one of the best.

Of the ones I've tested:

1. MLT04
2. FinalMouse, DA4g
3. KPM, Aurora
4. 3366, Avior/Naos 7k pre-firmware update that is said to have improved the mouse, but I had already returned mine so I couldn't test it.
5. AM, FK, DA 3.5g, Rival, FK1

[Linkh]

Hey! Just a recommendation, you should add the rog gladius to the list. it has the same sensor as the razer deathadder (S3988) and is actually pretty decent!

[SeanyC]

Are we getting any closer to this update? Looking forward to seeing it.

Yes we are . I had never imagined this guide would be visited this many times, and I feel a responsibility to keep it somewhat up to date. It will be a gradual one however, so I will start adding things one by one, and changing some small things in the guide, instead of doing one huge overhaul. I will start with the most popular mice that came out since the last update of the guide.

This guide is awesome. Can't wait to see what you add to the list.
I think peripheral manufacturers have made "perfect" sensors a priority in the last year, so there are quite a few seemingly excellent options that I'm curious about.

[v0idtek]

Not sure what that note about the Avior 7000 having jitters at high DPI means - I've never experienced the mouse jittering or misbehaving in any way.

[SeanyC]

Not sure what that note about the Avior 7000 having jitters at high DPI means - I've never experienced the mouse jittering or misbehaving in any way.

I've not used the Avior 7000 myself, but may be difficult to notice.

The jitter may have been visible in testing but not as noticeable when using the mouse.
It's also possible the jitter only occurs above the DPI setting that you are using.

This is a very minor issue as most users operate at or below 1600 DPI, and the mouse's max setting is 7000 DPI.

Also, not that you would, but don't let a minor note ruin your love of the mouse. It is, after all, still on the list of mice with superior sensors.

[SeanyC]

Not sure what that note about the Avior 7000 having jitters at high DPI means - I've never experienced the mouse jittering or misbehaving in any way.

I forgot to mention that the guide was last updated in August '14, nearly a year ago.

It is entirely possible that a firmware update fixed this jitter. Just a thought.

[SeanyC]

Not sure what that note about the Avior 7000 having jitters at high DPI means - I've never experienced the mouse jittering or misbehaving in any way.

In fact, "Interpolation fix from 5000 to 7000dpi" is listed on the latest firmware for the mouse, which you may already have installed if you recently purchased the mouse!

http://support.mionix.net/entries/66256899-AVIOR-7000-Firmware-Version-3-08

[thegreenlizard]

I would like to supply aditional information on the RAT 3 (the optical black mad catz non-glossy version). It has been bought in August 2015.

An enotus mouse test (without the smoothness part), along with some lines in paint to show you the lack of jittering.

The mouse does NOT have its drivers installed (they don't help with anything), nor the programming software (I can easily remap the buttons with something like autohotkey while the coloured toggle doesn't give me any advantages). Testing has been done at the 3rd tracking speed (1800 DPI) on a white sheet of paper (in a good but not perfect condition). No modding or other things.

P.S. The mouse goes in the PC through a belkin 3-meter usb 2.0 cable (because mouse is far away).

Conclusion:
Precision - ~ about 98.5%
Default Polling speed: 879 Hz
Max speed: 2.39 m/s (I had to artificially try to get that speed, I doubt anyone would ever reach it under any gaming circumstances)

(sorry, no smoothness, I don't have experience testing it properly )

P.S.2. If stuff breaks within it, I have 2 years to send it back to warranty or re-solder things myself. Some people were able to keep it for over 3 years, it depends on your luck (some guys got not-so-well-made units). Most of them seem to be ok though, and it's selling as fast as fresh&hot bread

Thank you for your time, Grim Fandango!!! 

EDIT: It's not july for the picture - it's then when I started looking for a mouse and I have managed to find mine some time later

P.S.3. On the box it says ©2014 Mad Catz

[Grim Fandango]

Planning to start doing some updates this upcoming week. Been a while, but it is coming. Currently my goal is to just get the list up to date.

Edit: added some mice to the list. Not entirely done yet.

[TheO-RingGuys]

Very nice writeup.

I especially liked the section that cleared stuff up on what DPI actually is. Thanks for pointing that out!

[Grim Fandango]

I would like to supply aditional information on the RAT 3 (the optical black mad catz non-glossy version). It has been bought in August 2015.

An enotus mouse test (without the smoothness part), along with some lines in paint to show you the lack of jittering.

The mouse does NOT have its drivers installed (they don't help with anything), nor the programming software (I can easily remap the buttons with something like autohotkey while the coloured toggle doesn't give me any advantages). Testing has been done at the 3rd tracking speed (1800 DPI) on a white sheet of paper (in a good but not perfect condition). No modding or other things.

P.S. The mouse goes in the PC through a belkin 3-meter usb 2.0 cable (because mouse is far away).

Conclusion:
Precision - ~ about 98.5%
Default Polling speed: 879 Hz
Max speed: 2.39 m/s (I had to artificially try to get that speed, I doubt anyone would ever reach it under any gaming circumstances)

(sorry, no smoothness, I don't have experience testing it properly )

P.S.2. If stuff breaks within it, I have 2 years to send it back to warranty or re-solder things myself. Some people were able to keep it for over 3 years, it depends on your luck (some guys got not-so-well-made units). Most of them seem to be ok though, and it's selling as fast as fresh&hot bread

Thank you for your time, Grim Fandango!!! 

EDIT: It's not july for the picture - it's then when I started looking for a mouse and I have managed to find mine some time later

P.S.3. On the box it says ©2014 Mad Catz

Thanks for this. I somehow missed your post before.

[alexofthewest]

I noticed the fk-2 is not on the list, If I am not mistaken it is the exact same mouse as the fk-1 except for a slightly smaller shell and curved lip at the very end for fingertips.

I thought this was an amazingly well written thread on mice, except I wish it addressed ergonomics at least in terms of size. Mouse size for me is as important as the sensor's quality because my very small hands cannot reach the side buttons on MOST mice including the arguably small zowie fk-1.  It is truly a challenge finding a good comprehensive list of mice that meet that criteria.  On returning my fk1. I am debating between the fk-2 and ec2a, hoping those will be ideal.

[Grim Fandango]

I noticed the fk-2 is not on the list, If I am not mistaken it is the exact same mouse as the fk-1 except for a slightly smaller shell and curved lip at the very end for fingertips.

I thought this was an amazingly well written thread on mice, except I wish it addressed ergonomics at least in terms of size. Mouse size for me is as important as the sensor's quality because my very small hands cannot reach the side buttons on MOST mice including the arguably small zowie fk-1.  It is truly a challenge finding a good comprehensive list of mice that meet that criteria.  On returning my fk1. I am debating between the fk-2 and ec2a, hoping those will be ideal.

Thanks for pointing that out. The FK-2 is one of the mice that is on the list to be added, along with a number of other mice that need some looking in to, including the Rival 100. I will get around to it soon.

[Bucake]

glad to see this is still alive! very good reference thread. : )
good stuff Grim!

[sevs]

Any thoughts on the Asus ROG Gladius? I found it on sale here in Norway. My MS Basic Optical 2.0s are good, but they need an upgrade.

Apparently the Gladius uses a S988 sensor, and some people suffer from various problems like coating wearing off, click delay, double clicking and diagonal tracking problems.

It weighs 116g, a little bit too heavy for me I think.

Thank you for a comprehensive list and well-written words on mice and sensors. It is amazing to see peple take their time to write these things.

Also, this is my first post on this fantastic enthusiast-filled forum. I hope to spend some time here.

[exit]

Any thoughts on the Asus ROG Gladius? I found it on sale here in Norway. My MS Basic Optical 2.0s are good, but they need an upgrade.

Apparently the Gladius uses a S988 sensor, and some people suffer from various problems like coating wearing off, click delay, double clicking and diagonal tracking problems.

It weighs 116g, a little bit too heavy for me I think.

Thank you for a comprehensive list and well-written words on mice and sensors. It is amazing to see peple take their time to write these things.

Also, this is my first post on this fantastic enthusiast-filled forum. I hope to spend some time here.

Good mouse if you don't mind the weight. Note that it comes with more than the usual amount of accessories such as extra switches and a carrying pouch.

[ZeroDHero93]

Hi, what you think about the Corsair Gaming Sabre Optical RGB Gaming Mouse With the S3988 Sensor?

Thanks

[thejoker1337]

Why isnt g402 on this list?

[SeanyC]

Why isnt g402 on this list?

Logitech did some experimental things with the sensor in the G402.

At its core, the sensor is a AM010, which is the same sensor in the G100s. This is a good sensor, except that it fails at tracking speeds higher than 2.7 m/s.
Because of this, Logitech added what they call the "Fusion Engine", which uses an accelerometer in addition to the sensor to continue tracking at very high speeds.

So I can't speak for Grim, but I would imagine this mouse is omitted from the list because of the weird "hybrid sensor".

Now, I have this mouse and I played CS with it for about a month, and the accuracy was great in my opinion. However, I rarely go over 2.5 m/s, and as far as I can tell when you are in the lower tracking speeds the mouse only uses the raw AM010. The only reason I stopped using it was because I didn't like the shape. It's a narrow mouse and made my hand cramp during longer sessions.

Here is a good review on the mouse with some details about the sensor: http://www.overclock.net/t/1504917/logitech-g402-hyperion-fury-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino
The reviewer may be slightly bias because he got to test the mouse for logitech, but I think it's a good resource otherwise.

[tp4tissue]

Any "New Mice" on the Horizon..

If not,  I think, I'mma get another g502, gave my last one away..

[SeanyC]

Any "New Mice" on the Horizon..

If not,  I think, I'mma get another g502, gave my last one away..

Two new FinalMouse models are supposed to come out very soon.
SteelSeries just released a Rival 100.
Zowie just refreshed their lineup with some small changes.

Why did you give away your g502? Are you looking for something with a similar shape or no?

[tp4tissue]

Any "New Mice" on the Horizon..

If not,  I think, I'mma get another g502, gave my last one away..

Two new FinalMouse models are supposed to come out very soon.
SteelSeries just released a Rival 100.
Zowie just refreshed their lineup with some small changes.

Why did you give away your g502? Are you looking for something with a similar shape or no?

Well, like when people come over my house, i give them stuff.. Cuz I have a shopping problem and I end up with triples and quadruples of the electronics I actually use....

I've gotten the habit under control for the past 2 years.. but overall.. yea that's why I gave my previous g502 away..   I am still using what I consider the best mouse though my G400 non-anglesnapper @ 800dpi.   

I need to buy a 502 because I got 2 computers now that I regularly draft on ..

[Vittra]

Any "New Mice" on the Horizon..

If not,  I think, I'mma get another g502, gave my last one away..

Two new FinalMouse models are supposed to come out very soon.
SteelSeries just released a Rival 100.
Zowie just refreshed their lineup with some small changes.

Why did you give away your g502? Are you looking for something with a similar shape or no?

Well, like when people come over my house, i give them stuff.. Cuz I have a shopping problem and I end up with triples and quadruples of the electronics I actually use....

I've gotten the habit under control for the past 2 years.. but overall.. yea that's why I gave my previous g502 away..   I am still using what I consider the best mouse though my G400 non-anglesnapper @ 800dpi.   

I need to buy a 502 because I got 2 computers now that I regularly draft on ..

Just to elaborate - Zowie will refresh their entire lineup with Omron switches, but they are also changing the mousewheel back to 16, down from 24.

If you're running 800 cpi, stick with the G400/MX518. Nothing beats it. I only changed away from mine because 800 cpi simply wasn't enough anymore for 2560x1440 after remaining stubborn and struggling with it for way too long. Wanted to keep a good thing going. I still want to go back to one of them right now

[yolorip]

nevermind

[tp4tissue]

If you're running 800 cpi, stick with the G400/MX518. Nothing beats it. I only changed away from mine because 800 cpi simply wasn't enough anymore for 2560x1440 after remaining stubborn and struggling with it for way too long. Wanted to keep a good thing going. I still want to go back to one of them right now

I've been using 2560x1600 since Year 2007..   Started on Mx500 - 510 -518- G400

What do you mean (800cpi) is not enough for that resolution..  the resolution is no where near 800 cpi.

I'm also pretty sure the sensor is only something like a fewhundred pixels across. So when they say 8000 dpi..   it's really just a 100x100 sensor, but they take take thousands of fotos, then splice and compare..

They're also applying alot more smoothing at the higher dpi because of higher quantity of garbage data.  So it's for the most part Less precise, less accurate, despite being more sensitive.

[Vittra]

That depends entirely on if you prefer incredibly precise movements at the expense of lifting the mouse a lot. I used 800 CPI for years at 2560x1440 with many different mice, including the MX518 and G400. Now I use 1600 CPI on the Mionix Castor. If I were playing FPS games primarily, it is possible I would switch back to 800 CPI.

Not all mice use interpolation for high levels of CPI until you get into the absurd numbers like the ones you are referencing - however I don't think any reasonable person would be using the advertised 5000+ levels anyway.

This link provides a fairly lucid explanation as to why someone may venture beyond 800 CPI, in tandem with adjusting IG sensitivity options (based on game):

http://eliteownage.com/mouseguide.html

Ultimately, what a person uses is going to be down to preference.

[sintklaas73]

great post. thanks!

[GL1TCH3D]

http://store.madcatz.com/platforms/pc/Mad-Catz-R-A-T-PRO-X-Ultimate-Gaming-Mouse-for-PC.html


So how is this holding up?

I thought that the firmware made a huge difference in the performance of the mice so how are they handling a mouse that can use 3 different sensors?

Curious to see how it plays out. Wasn't impressed with the input lag of the rat 7 so I doubt that this will be any better.

[The_snowfall]

Hi all!
Since the logitech g402 is stil "in testing phase" i would like to know what alternative do i have for the same price, or cheaper.
I have been looking at some mice and have seen some that could be a good alternative, and i need a little bit of help   

Are any of those a good alternative? SteelSeries Rival 300, Mionix Avior 7000 or ROCCAT SAVU. If not, whats your recommendation?

And one last question, so far how are the opinions about the logitech g402, more positive or more negative?

(I hope to express myself well  , still learning english)

[Hypersphere]

@Grim Fandango: What are your thoughts on the new Ducky "Secret Mouse"? I really like the fact that it is made of PBT and that it does not have those knobbly rubber side-grips that have become ubiquitous on mice these days. I still use my Razer DA Black Edition, but I am starting to look for replacments in case it ever wears out.

[cryptokey]

I'm not sure if this has been previously mentioned, but have you considered including trackballs in this list such as CST and ITAC Mouse-Trak ones?

[Bucake]

@Grim Fandango: What are your thoughts on the new Ducky "Secret Mouse"? I really like the fact that it is made of PBT and that it does not have those knobbly rubber side-grips that have become ubiquitous on mice these days. I still use my Razer DA Black Edition, but I am starting to look for replacments in case it ever wears out.

i'm actually still waiting for some good reviews on this mouse.
all my mice have very worn shells, you can just see the two spots where i click RMB and LMB feels very bad.
same for rubber (coating) on my mice, it just wears down and starts to feel different over time.

from time to time i check the mice section on overclock, but haven't really seen any 'proper' reviews on the Secret.
it does seem like people are unanimous about its solid build quality, so at least that sounds promising :-)

[a_ak57]

from time to time i check the mice section on overclock, but haven't really seen any 'proper' reviews on the Secret.

That's probably due to its weight, the people on OCN who do full reviews are generally the types who don't like heavy mice.

[tp4tissue]

So the Mcat 3 sensor thing is "cool" in theory..

but i really wonder how much their team is able to flesh-out the full potential of each sensor, when they now have to break out into managing 3 different sensors.

I feel like in the end, they're just handing us an average product with reference tuning..

[GL1TCH3D]

So the Mcat 3 sensor thing is "cool" in theory..

but i really wonder how much their team is able to flesh-out the full potential of each sensor, when they now have to break out into managing 3 different sensors.

I feel like in the end, they're just handing us an average product with reference tuning..

This is what I think too.
They're also boasting how their sensors have X amount of acceleration and angle snapping and such... Can't imagine them trying to make it good for gaming.

The Rat7 with the input lag was horrendous.

[SeanyC]

Since the logitech g402 is stil "in testing phase" i would like to know what alternative do i have for the same price, or cheaper.
I have been looking at some mice and have seen some that could be a good alternative, and i need a little bit of help   

Are any of those a good alternative? SteelSeries Rival 300, Mionix Avior 7000 or ROCCAT SAVU. If not, whats your recommendation?

And one last question, so far how are the opinions about the logitech g402, more positive or more negative?

If the shape feels good to you, the g402 is a great mouse in my opinion.
Here is a positive review: http://www.overclock.net/t/1504917/logitech-g402-hyperion-fury-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino

Those alternatives you listed all have good sensors, but different shapes. I would say that out of the mice you are looking at, choose whichever is most comfortable in your hand, as they all seem to have good sensors based on what I've read. The g402 is the only one I've used personally, and I was very happy with the performance.

[fantus]

Hey guys do you know if the Zowie EC2-A huano switches are compatible with the Omron D2FC-F-7N? I like the actuation force of my deathadder, but I want a smaller mouse with a better sensor (1800 dpi deathadder purchased around ~2009). I have an ergodox so i figure if all i need to do is unsolder the huano and solder in the omron it should be easy, also there was a video posted on youtube of a complete dissasembly for the ec2-a

[Bucake]

Hey guys do you know if the Zowie EC2-A huano switches are compatible with the Omron D2FC-F-7N? I like the actuation force of my deathadder, but I want a smaller mouse with a better sensor (1800 dpi deathadder purchased around ~2009).

what's wrong with your 3G DA? unless you don't like the native 1800 step, it should be a great mouse.*
can't help you with your compatibility question i'm afraid. but something tells me it should work fine.
if you can't find help here on geekhack, you could try the mice section on overclock.

*edit: nevermind, i see you want a smaller mouse