Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.

[a_ak57]

Hey guys do you know if the Zowie EC2-A huano switches are compatible with the Omron D2FC-F-7N? I like the actuation force of my deathadder, but I want a smaller mouse with a better sensor (1800 dpi deathadder purchased around ~2009). I have an ergodox so i figure if all i need to do is unsolder the huano and solder in the omron it should be easy, also there was a video posted on youtube of a complete dissasembly for the ec2-a

You can indeed just desolder the huanos and solder in omrons.  Though keep in mind the clicks still won't be quite as light as the DA due to shell design differences.

[Colt]

How long until they have Orion switches. I am considering getting the ec1 a or the fk. I have a weird hybrid grip that is slanted which one would you recommend. Also first post

[tp4tissue]

How long until they have Orion switches. I am considering getting the ec1 a or the fk. I have a weird hybrid grip that is slanted which one would you recommend. Also first post

can't you just buy orion switches and solder them into your current mouse?

[fantus]

You can indeed just desolder the huanos and solder in omrons.  Though keep in mind the clicks still won't be quite as light as the DA due to shell design differences.

Thanks pulled the trigger on it. If I need the Omron's I'll let you know how it goes.

[domsch1988]

hey everyone, very informative read indeed 

My question: I'm searching for a mouse with as many buttons as possible for a mid budget. It should be rather big (i palm grip and have rather big hands, so the Performance MX e.g. is as small as i'd go) and have a decent sensor. I don't game with it, it's for work only. So sensor is not the number one priority. Apart from LMB, RMB and mouse wheel press i'd need a minimum of 5 side buttons (forward, back, and every key modifier). More is better (used for common shortcuts and macros). All Buttons need to be assignable (Apart from LMB, RMB and MMB) to minimum a keyboard key combination (alpha plus minimum 2, better 3 modifiers). If the software provides more options for the buttons, thats a bonus. I can do nearly everything through AHK if i can assign keyboard shortcuts to buttons.

I looked at the G600, which looks decent, but is on the "smaller" side of what works for me. Mad Catz is out for being to slim in every dimension. The Roccat Nyth looks really perfect (could try it live till now), but is uber expensive for a work mouse. The Corsair M95 looks good, but i'm not sure how big it is and how well Corsair peripherals are made.
So what would you recommend to me?

[JonnyPolygon]

Awesome post bro

[SeanyC]

My question: I'm searching for a mouse with as many buttons as possible for a mid budget. It should be rather big (i palm grip and have rather big hands, so the Performance MX e.g. is as small as i'd go) and have a decent sensor. I don't game with it, it's for work only. So sensor is not the number one priority. Apart from LMB, RMB and mouse wheel press i'd need a minimum of 5 side buttons (forward, back, and every key modifier). More is better (used for common shortcuts and macros). All Buttons need to be assignable (Apart from LMB, RMB and MMB) to minimum a keyboard key combination (alpha plus minimum 2, better 3 modifiers). If the software provides more options for the buttons, thats a bonus. I can do nearly everything through AHK if i can assign keyboard shortcuts to buttons.

Razer Naga seems like it would work as it has 12 side buttons. Cheaper than the Nyth if you just get the classic. Sensor isn't perfect, but for office use it should suit your needs

[wockytocky]

hey everyone, very informative read indeed 

My question: I'm searching for a mouse with as many buttons as possible for a mid budget. It should be rather big (i palm grip and have rather big hands, so the Performance MX e.g. is as small as i'd go) and have a decent sensor. I don't game with it, it's for work only. So sensor is not the number one priority. Apart from LMB, RMB and mouse wheel press i'd need a minimum of 5 side buttons (forward, back, and every key modifier). More is better (used for common shortcuts and macros). All Buttons need to be assignable (Apart from LMB, RMB and MMB) to minimum a keyboard key combination (alpha plus minimum 2, better 3 modifiers). If the software provides more options for the buttons, thats a bonus. I can do nearly everything through AHK if i can assign keyboard shortcuts to buttons.

I looked at the G600, which looks decent, but is on the "smaller" side of what works for me. Mad Catz is out for being to slim in every dimension. The Roccat Nyth looks really perfect (could try it live till now), but is uber expensive for a work mouse. The Corsair M95 looks good, but i'm not sure how big it is and how well Corsair peripherals are made.
So what would you recommend to me?

You could look at the Razer Naga, it has plenty of side buttons. The G602 would be another great choice, although it doesn't have quite as many buttons (6 on the side plus an extra 2 on top)

[DarthBories]

Any info on the old Logitech Mx 1000? (Possibly the first laser mouse)  Mine is over 12 years old and still going strong, battery life still lasts days!

[fantus]

PSA There was a new version of the Zowie ec2-a released by Benq (who recently acquired Zowie) which changed the switches from Huano's to something lighter. They have sense been recalled to reverse the change because of unintentional double clicking. http://zowie.benq.com/news/8/zowie-mice-recall-announcement
The recalled mice have a red logo on them, not the white one.

Also, my Zowie ec2-a came in the mail and i just want to say the 1.5-1.8 mm lift of distance is wonders compared to what my Death Adder 3G had.

[GL1TCH3D]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374831,00.asp

Anyone else want a good joke?

[Hypersphere]

@fantus: Yes, thanks. I saw this as well and made a separate post. I really wanted to test the 2016 model of the Zowie EC1-A, but because of this glitch, I have crossed this one off my list.

Now I am testing the Mionix Naos 7000 and Mionix Castor vs my Razer DA Black Edition. I thought I would prefer the Naos 7000, but if feels a bit too slippery when picking up the mouse. The Castor is just a tad too small. Both Mionix mice have scroll wheels that are a bit too loud for my taste. The front side button on the Castor is actually too quiet.

The DA Black is still my favorite -- I am only looking at other mice because the original DA Black is no longer in production. It is still going strong but starting to look scruffy, and when it eventually fails, I want to have a good replacement. I am going to try the current DA despite the fact that I am not a fan of knobbly rubber side grips.

[tp4tissue]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374831,00.asp

Anyone else want a good joke?

Pc Mag has always been n00b stuff ..

Because they're obliged to appease their advertisers.


A computer forum, is really the only place you can say,  Hey razer,  **** you.. your keyboards SUCK..

[demik]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374831,00.asp

Anyone else want a good joke?

Pc Mag has always been n00b stuff ..

Because they're obliged to appease their advertisers.


A computer forum, is really the only place you can say,  Hey razer,  **** you.. your keyboards SUCK..

i think this is the first time i've seen you curse.

and ergo dox is now made by razer? TIL

[tp4tissue]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374831,00.asp

Anyone else want a good joke?

Pc Mag has always been n00b stuff ..

Because they're obliged to appease their advertisers.


A computer forum, is really the only place you can say,  Hey razer,  **** you.. your keyboards SUCK..

i think this is the first time i've seen you curse.

and ergo dox is now made by razer? TIL

Razer is the only brand I h8 ,  right after OCZ...

[azhdar]

so what mouse will give me the more headshots at the 80$ range?

requirment: being able to change dpi profile on the mouse direcly

[tp4tissue]

so what mouse will give me the more headshots at the 80$ range?

requirment: being able to change dpi profile on the mouse direcly

everyone is getting the g502 right now..

[JustDont]

What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?

I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.

[tp4tissue]

What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?

I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.

I'm still not convinced the Zowie prices are justified..


Especially since the only products they got on the list are still 3090 sensors,  even then, there was the input lag issue..

Which says they're not up to snuff to the same degree as more experienced makers..

The 502 is imho the ideal choice atm, because everything else costs more, and doesn't give you anything extra.

[JustDont]

What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?

I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.

I'm still not convinced the Zowie prices are justified..


Especially since the only products they got on the list are still 3090 sensors,  even then, there was the input lag issue..

Which says they're not up to snuff to the same degree as more experienced makers..

The 502 is imho the ideal choice atm, because everything else costs more, and doesn't give you anything extra.

I agree, Zowie mouse are overpriced build quality and features wise. 

The issue I have with g502 is it's weight. Although I use a fairly high sensitivity in csgo @400dpi 2.5sens so weight should not be an issue but I can't risk it.

I laid my hands on the g402 which is only 15g lighter than g502 and it wasn't that far heavy at all compared to my g303 at 87g.

I loooooooooove the g303 mouse clicks and I think I'd love the g502 too but I first want to test it out.

[a_ak57]

What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?

I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.

I'm still not convinced the Zowie prices are justified..


Especially since the only products they got on the list are still 3090 sensors,  even then, there was the input lag issue..

Which says they're not up to snuff to the same degree as more experienced makers..

The 502 is imho the ideal choice atm, because everything else costs more, and doesn't give you anything extra.

Zowie mice have been using the 3310 for a while now.  FK1 debuted with it in the summer of 2014, then they refreshed the FK as the FK2 and then the EC series as the EC1-A and EC2-A a while later and now they have the ZA series that sports it.  They also lowered the click delay somewhat, not as low as Logitech (though nobody really is), but it's as good as most of the other companies now.

[tp4tissue]

What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?

I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.

I'm still not convinced the Zowie prices are justified..


Especially since the only products they got on the list are still 3090 sensors,  even then, there was the input lag issue..

Which says they're not up to snuff to the same degree as more experienced makers..

The 502 is imho the ideal choice atm, because everything else costs more, and doesn't give you anything extra.

Zowie mice have been using the 3310 for a while now.  FK1 debuted with it in the summer of 2014, then they refreshed the FK as the FK2 and then the EC series as the EC1-A and EC2-A a while later and now they have the ZA series that sports it.  They also lowered the click delay somewhat, not as low as Logitech (though nobody really is), but it's as good as most of the other companies now.

This input latency graph sums up nicely why Zowie is too new to the field, and don't really know what they're doing.

[a_ak57]

Like I said, they've improved the latency since the older mice.  IIRC they're generally around 7-8ms slower than a G303 these days which puts them in the category of standard.

[MykB77]

Any info on the old Logitech Mx 1000? (Possibly the first laser mouse)  Mine is over 12 years old and still going strong, battery life still lasts days!

Mine also.  Unreal battery life.  It can be replaced fairly easily though if it goes.

[MykB77]

Anyone using the MX Master?  I had the Performance MX but found the resolution lacking for multi screen engineering.  Love hyperscroll though.

[tp4tissue]

Like I said, they've improved the latency since the older mice.  IIRC they're generally around 7-8ms slower than a G303 these days which puts them in the category of standard.

Well,  I'm not saying their mice are completely unusuable..  15ms - 30 ms is only around 2 frames of input lag.. most games probably don't care. (although uber pro players claim to have sensed-a-disturbance)

but the point i AM trying to illustrate is that their competance in device making is lacking, yet they had the audacity to charge such a high price out the gate..

It makes me angry...

[tp4tissue]

Anyone using the MX Master?  I had the Performance MX but found the resolution lacking for multi screen engineering.  Love hyperscroll though.

Get the G602, it's really the only choice atm,  because logitech knows what they're doing..


However,  the same problem with all wireless mices continue to this day..

Essentially,,   the BEST sensors uses lots of POWER..  (for a mice)..

Therefore,  the best most accurate tracking will NEVER come from a wireless mouse, unless this thing is allowed to kill the battery in like a day..


Honestly, I don't know why they don't make a wireless mouse that is designed from the get-go to swap batteries..   I think it'd be kinda cool to finish a gaming session, and then gotta recharge..  like a "mouse reload" hahahahaha

But I'm sure they group tested it, and people found it annoying over time.. 



STill,,, if you want the best tracking, ,that will inherently be power limited , and therefore MUST be wired..


If you're ok with Decent tracking..  then get the G602..   the 700s is good too, but, the 602 is newer i believe, so it probably includes fixes for the mistakes they've made on the g700.



Forgot to mention, the G602 is limited to 500 hz..  that's not a huge issue.. but again it can affect you if you're one of them uber-pr0-g4m3rz

[MykB77]

Anyone using the MX Master?  I had the Performance MX but found the resolution lacking for multi screen engineering.  Love hyperscroll though.

Get the G602, it's really the only choice atm,  because logitech knows what they're doing..


However,  the same problem with all wireless mices continue to this day..

Essentially,,   the BEST sensors uses lots of POWER..  (for a mice)..

Therefore,  the best most accurate tracking will NEVER come from a wireless mouse, unless this thing is allowed to kill the battery in like a day..


Honestly, I don't know why they don't make a wireless mouse that is designed from the get-go to swap batteries..   I think it'd be kinda cool to finish a gaming session, and then gotta recharge..  like a "mouse reload" hahahahaha

But I'm sure they group tested it, and people found it annoying over time.. 



STill,,, if you want the best tracking, ,that will inherently be power limited , and therefore MUST be wired..


If you're ok with Decent tracking..  then get the G602..   the 700s is good too, but, the 602 is newer i believe, so it probably includes fixes for the mistakes they've made on the g700.



Forgot to mention, the G602 is limited to 500 hz..  that's not a huge issue.. but again it can affect you if you're one of them uber-pr0-g4m3rz

I am currently running the G700s and a RAT 9.   Both with up to 1000hz.  And yes, I can notice a difference between 500hz and 1000hz.  I know it is only 1ms difference but if you are engineering or programming or both down to pixels it is noticeable. 

The sensor in the 602 is new and I haven't tried one yet.  The 700s is laser, the RAT is dual laser and the MX are dark field laser (had the Performance MX before).  All three track amazingly; any issues with the RAT and y axis tracking always turn out to be a speck of almost microscopic dust.

 The Performance MX and MX Revolution  before it had the best shape for a mouse for me.  The new MX Master seems good.

Unfortunately, the shape for the G700s changed promoting more of a claw grip.  Besides that it is amazing if you don't mind charging it every night.

The programmable buttons on the 602 look amazing and I would be setting up custom macros.  The only thing making me hesitate is not having hyperscroll.  I read through big pdf manuals and specifications.

If anyone has used all of these mice, out of the MX Master and 602, which has the better shape and extended comfort?

Heck.  I might just have to get both and try them.

[tp4tissue]

I'm not super sure on this..   but I believe latency goes up on wireless if it was transmitting Movement AND Click motion at the same time..

[Hypersphere]

Still looking for a replacement for the Razer DA Black Edition. I just bought a Razer DA Chroma to test. I like it overall, but it has one annoying issue -- the scroll wheel rattles. The rattle is most noticeable when rolling the wheel toward the top of the mouse (scrolling up).

I've seen several reports of scroll wheel rattle with the Razer DA Chroma, so this seems to be a characteristic of this mouse. My DA Black Edition does not have  this problem.

Does anyone here have recommendations for mice that have sturdy scroll wheels that do not rattle?

BTW, I am also not a fan of the 16.8 million pulsating colors that seem to be a feature on most of the gaming mice these days, but I can live with this as long as it is possible to disable the LEDs easily, especially through settings on the mouse itself rather than through software.

[davkol]

Most wheels are louder, when scrolling up.

Current Roccat mice have probably the best wheel, that I've ever used. But they're still a bit loud, when scrolling up.

[Hypersphere]

Looks like I really was in luck having purchased a DA Black Edition years ago. The scroll wheel is very quiet when scrolling in either direction. There are still DA BEs available on Amazon through some vendors in Japan, but they are over $100.

I have been looking at Roccat mice. Maybe I will give them a try, although they include many bells and whistles that I do not need or want.

[davkol]

Dunno… If you don't buy Tyon/Nyth, there's just some light (can be persistently turned off) and sometimes a braided cable… That's about it.

[CeeSA]

@Hypershere
If you don't mind to open your mouse, buy a Zowie mouse and mod your mouse wheel. By removing some parts, you could make the wheel a free wheel that is very silent.

[Hypersphere]

@CeeSA: Thanks for the tip. This is a nice idea, but I prefer a notched (stepped or ratcheted) wheel rather than a free wheel.

[BigDov]

Anyone using the MX Master?  I had the Performance MX but found the resolution lacking for multi screen engineering.  Love hyperscroll though.

I am, and loving it.... I don't take advantage of the multiple pairings but use the heck out of it on a daily basis. In my opinion, it's a pretty great mouse.

And to address your other question about comfort, yes, it's extremely comfortable. I'm at my desk with it 8-10 hours per day, some times even more, and never get tired of using it. I had a friend over a couple weeks ago, and he loved it because he didn't have to "claw" it - same for me, too, it just fits.

[Sifo]

so... i finally got a g502 since it's the "spiritual successor" to g9x.

Way too heavy and big even without weights, wrist hurt after gaming. Using it at work for casual use and it seems okay for now but bleh.

I'd get a spawn but it only goes up to 3500 dpi

dunno what to get, considering g303 but it looks like it has a weird shape too...

[GL1TCH3D]

so... i finally got a g502 since it's the "spiritual successor" to g9x.

Way too heavy and big even without weights, wrist hurt after gaming. Using it at work for casual use and it seems okay for now but bleh.

I'd get a spawn but it only goes up to 3500 dpi

dunno what to get, considering g303 but it looks like it has a weird shape too...

The shape of the g502 is the biggest downside for me

G9x was a lot smaller and lighter.

And what games are you playing that you need 3.5k dpi o.o

I've been inching my dpi down if anything (3.2k > 1.5k)

[Sifo]

I don't like moving my wrist... if i can play osu on 3.6k i think i'm fine

[a_ak57]

so... i finally got a g502 since it's the "spiritual successor" to g9x.

Way too heavy and big even without weights, wrist hurt after gaming. Using it at work for casual use and it seems okay for now but bleh.

I'd get a spawn but it only goes up to 3500 dpi

dunno what to get, considering g303 but it looks like it has a weird shape too...

Shame you didn't ask here about it first since I would have told you the G502 is not a replacement for the G9x at all (only in terms of being their most high end wired gaming mouse).  G303 does indeed have a weird shape, some people are fine with it, some don't like it but eventually tolerate it and others simply never like it at all (and even experience cramping).  Spawn I personally don't care for a ton because of the ridges on the right, but if you don't mind that (or even like it) then it could be good.  I'd probably say check out the Xornet II instead though since the Spawn has meh firmware (pretty much all of the versions have pros/cons).

Sadly, there really just isn't a good replacement for the G9 (my favorite shape and I've tried numerous mice).  I keep hoping logitech will bring it back with the 3366 sensor but it was probably too niche for them to consider.  These days I use the Zowie ZA13, it's not a super similar shape but it's fairly short, the front is low and the back contacts my palm in a similar way as the G9 so I like it well enough. 

[tp4tissue]

If the weight is that big an issue for you guys..  just open it up and start filing away..

Drill some holes in it even..

[Sifo]

so... i finally got a g502 since it's the "spiritual successor" to g9x.

Way too heavy and big even without weights, wrist hurt after gaming. Using it at work for casual use and it seems okay for now but bleh.

I'd get a spawn but it only goes up to 3500 dpi

dunno what to get, considering g303 but it looks like it has a weird shape too...

Shame you didn't ask here about it first since I would have told you the G502 is not a replacement for the G9x at all (only in terms of being their most high end wired gaming mouse).  G303 does indeed have a weird shape, some people are fine with it, some don't like it but eventually tolerate it and others simply never like it at all (and even experience cramping).  Spawn I personally don't care for a ton because of the ridges on the right, but if you don't mind that (or even like it) then it could be good.  I'd probably say check out the Xornet II instead though since the Spawn has meh firmware (pretty much all of the versions have pros/cons).

Sadly, there really just isn't a good replacement for the G9 (my favorite shape and I've tried numerous mice).  I keep hoping logitech will bring it back with the 3366 sensor but it was probably too niche for them to consider.  These days I use the Zowie ZA13, it's not a super similar shape but it's fairly short, the front is low and the back contacts my palm in a similar way as the G9 so I like it well enough. 

Forgot to mention I use the g9x without the shell as well. probably one of the best mice for finger grip...

[Leiska]

http://store.madcatz.com/platforms/pc/Mad-Catz-R-A-T-PRO-X-Ultimate-Gaming-Mouse-for-PC.html


So how is this holding up?

I thought that the firmware made a huge difference in the performance of the mice so how are they handling a mouse that can use 3 different sensors?

Curious to see how it plays out. Wasn't impressed with the input lag of the rat 7 so I doubt that this will be any better.

I'm more interested in the PRO S, mainly because it's not priced to high heavens but I'm also not particularly interested in the additional features of the X.

So far I've been using the RAT 7 and the sensor quite literally kills me in games as it tends to randomly stop tracking one or both axises whenever it feels like it. That is a bummer especially because I absolutely love the way I managed to make the thing fit my hand. The PRO S comes with a PWM 3310 sensor, which should not have the issues I experience with the 7, but I wonder if it would make more sense to just get something like a G502 with the newer 3366 sensor.

[r1pp3r]

what a good article 
im in dilemma right now for searching which budget mouse are good for fingertip grip for budget around logitech G402
mainly gonna use it for fps gaming like csgo
currently im using logitech g700 but this mouse make my wrist hurt for long gaming session and it's damn heavy for fingertip grip purpose 
does g100s suitable for fingertip grip?
hope someone can help me and sorry for my bad english

[Sifo]

^ I finger grip too and bought g502.  too heavy and big. I have a g303 coming to try!

g9x is the best feel but discontinued and flawed sensor :/

[Eugene45]

Have someone already see this switch ?



And know his spec or an alternative for it ?

Its from the extra button from the Optical Trackball

Well i will edit but it seems that

http://fr.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-lot-original-KAILH-square-silent-mouse-micro-switch-mouse-button-can-replace-a-rectangle-micro/32448003409.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_502_10001_10002_10016_10005_10006_10003_10004,searchweb201560_2,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6448&btsid=ac225d20-bd54-4119-80d9-6f301c2b3f14

Are similar

[FreeCopy]

Just ordered a Ducky Secret. Should be here this weekend. I'll be moving from a Corsair M65 and really hope this does better for me.

[r1pp3r]

^ I finger grip too and bought g502.  too heavy and big. I have a g303 coming to try!

g9x is the best feel but discontinued and flawed sensor :/

i thought we can change the weight of g502 hmm
and what is your palm size from wrist to middle top finger?
mine is 19cm can considered it as a medium hand size so i have to find short-ish mouse to make it comfortable to hold for fingertip grip

[LXXXIX]

^ I finger grip too and bought g502.  too heavy and big. I have a g303 coming to try!

g9x is the best feel but discontinued and flawed sensor :/

I have a G303 I'm using right now. I like it, but damn do I hate braided USBs it is heavy and not very "loose." It makes the mouse feel heavier since there is so much resistance. I like the way it clicks and the mouse-wheel is awesome!

Tell me what you think when you get yours.

[Sifo]

Mines like 17 cm roughly lol. You can adjust weight but even with 0 weights in the g502 it's too heavy and fatigues my wrist after like 20 minutes of gaming. I took off the weight panel just to strip it down to be even lighter and it seems okay now... but I keep it at work for casual use.

I should have 303 on Monday!