U|<ra1ne 2o22

[fohat.digs]

I can't realistically quote the incoherent gibberish that streams off of the Ergodox, I thought that keyboards were supposed to facilitate improved intelligible typing.

At any rate, it seems that Colonel Putin of the KGB remains very popular with the majority of the Russian population.
It is hard to understand, but apparently his propaganda machine has proven successful again and again.

[tp4tissue]

At any rate, it seems that Colonel puddle of the |<GB remains very popular with the majority of the R| population.
It is hard to understand, but apparently his propag4nda machine has proven successful again and again.

That only proves how effective the 'Murican propoganda machine is on fohat.dig.

No government is for the people,  governments MINE the people.

[iri]

At any rate, it seems that Colonel Putin of the KGB remains very popular with the majority of the Russian population.
It is hard to understand, but apparently his propaganda machine has proven successful again and again.

Which propaganda machine told you this?

[chyros]

as I’ve mentioned earlier, they only care about stealing more money and buying more multimillion mansions in EU

If their assets are in the EU can they not be (threatened to be) seized or destroyed?  You could fit a lot of refugees in a mansion or better the rich people have influence to stop the madness.  Could be very harsh on anyone who's legit and just happened to be born in the wrong place though...

The thing about sanctions is,  money isn't real.   R| is self sufficient, it won't be as EFFICIENT as with globalization, but they've got everything they need should they choose to press this.

No one is giving Puddles an out,  The West and EU made the mistake of gradually goading U| towards n4to,  causing them to choose hardline policies AGAINST R| over time.    This turned out to be a bad plan because had U|  chosen neutrality / compromise,  we wouldn't be in this mess.

So now it's about saving face,  Puddles pretty much has to win through force.  The problem is HE CAN..  it won't be pretty, but he has the means to do it.


The MAIN DANGER to the west, is actually the RETURN of Drumph.

If Puddles win,  it will make B1den look foolish.  This could very much swing votes. 

If Drumph comes back,  R| gets that sweet Double indemnity.   You can see this tactic being carried out clearly in the repooplinazi circuit.  It's all about making B1den look bad.

Maybe I don't understand the current events properly but to me it seems like the West made it implicitly quite clear that they would not retaliate if Russia were to invade Ukraine. I don't think anything that is happening here would come as a surprise to anyone. I don't think everyone calling it WW3 is justified here either (at least yet), and if I were a WW2 veteran, I'd probably frown upon such a statement. Pretty sure none of us here could possibly imagine what true total war entails.

Also I'm not sure whether Ukraine leaning towards or away from NATO is consequential in the end. Russia would never have accepted Ukraine being part of NATO, but at the same time the previous president was strongly pre-Russia from what I've understood and one could just as easily make the point that this was ultimate a death sentence.

Without NATO backing, Ukraine was going to be targeted no matter what. There is no reason for Putin not to. The thing I'm still not 100% on though is what his ultimate reason for ACTUALLY doing it is though - power, prestige, propaganda, money, resources, etc. or a combination of them. That he's got little to lose seems clear, but what he stands to win isn't clear to me yet. Maybe someone from Russia or Ukraine can enlighten me on that.

It’s quite literally a battle between freedom and oppression, between light and dark.

And, unfortunately, now there are the interwebs and the fact that far too many people are gullible to their influence.

Goebbels was able to accomplish the first great propaganda campaign in history with and because of radio.

A very new technology that achieved near-universal adoption over the course of barely more than a decade !

I always thought we should fight this by providing people with better education and teaching of critical thinking

This is absolutely true. Unfortunately, reality interferes with this through Brandolini's law, particularly in the modern day and age.

For pretty much this reason it often takes centuries or even millennia to make social progress, yet mere years to undo it. This is happening in many places in Eastern Europe right now, and is marching at a devastating pace in the UK and especially the US as well.

I guess, in the end, the Right will always lie, and the Left will always be impotent.



EDIT: also, Zelensky has got some serious balls on him.

[tp4tissue]

Why do they put clear packing tape over the captured R| POW's heads ?

[noisyturtle]

Imagine being a Chechen General, and dying for Russia. Hope those Prada boots were warm.

[iri]

at the same time the previous president was strongly pre-Russia from what I've understood and one could just as easily make the point that this was ultimate a death sentence.

What was 'ultimately a death sentence'?

Without NATO backing, Ukraine was going to be targeted no matter what. There is no reason for Putin not to.

Actually no, there is no real reason for Putin to do this.

The thing I'm still not 100% on though is what his ultimate reason for ACTUALLY doing it is though - power, prestige, propaganda, money, resources, etc. or a combination of them. That he's got little to lose seems clear, but what he stands to win isn't clear to me yet. Maybe someone from Russia or Ukraine can enlighten me on that.

Putin's intention is to install a puppet government in Ukraine.

However, the costs of attempting this certainly don't justify the possible benefits. And the benefits will fail to materialise since Russia will eventually lose this war.

[Findecanor]

Putin is ruled by his penis, like any other mob boss. The concept of a free Ukraine makes him feel emasculated.

Trump is an admirer of Putin, because Trump is also ruled by his penis. Because most of Trump's party is following him (which they are only because he is popular), they are inept against Putin, or even outright disruptive. I am horrified at what the Republican party has become.
USA was at its greatest when it was united as a voice for freedom in the world. I hope that Republican voters over there will see what I see, and find a new better way.

[iri]

Sometimes I think it'd be great not to allow children access to the Internet.

[andreiborisov]

at the same time the previous president was strongly pre-Russia from what I've understood and one could just as easily make the point that this was ultimate a death sentence.

What was 'ultimately a death sentence'?

Without NATO backing, Ukraine was going to be targeted no matter what. There is no reason for Putin not to.

Actually no, there is no real reason for Putin to do this.

The thing I'm still not 100% on though is what his ultimate reason for ACTUALLY doing it is though - power, prestige, propaganda, money, resources, etc. or a combination of them. That he's got little to lose seems clear, but what he stands to win isn't clear to me yet. Maybe someone from Russia or Ukraine can enlighten me on that.

Putin's intention is to install a puppet government in Ukraine.

However, the costs of attempting this certainly don't justify the possible benefits. And the benefits will fail to materialise since Russia will eventually lose this war.

Of course there would be a reason, such people want to devour and own everything around them, because they don’t know compassion or love

[fohat.digs]

Actually no, there is no real reason for Putin to do this.

However, the costs of attempting this certainly don't justify the possible benefits. And the benefits will fail to materialise since Russia will eventually lose this war.

From here it seems absurdly risky in every dimension, both to Putin himself and to Russia in general.

Bush Jr seemed to have forgotten the lesson of Vietnam, did Putin forget Afghanistan?
 
He is reportedly the richest man in the world by far, and he will turn 70 this year. Why doesn't he buy an island in Greece and a yacht, and just take it easy?

[tp4tissue]

In high-power statecraft, The moment you're perceived to be _useless_ and/or  _less powerful_  Someone comes around and tries to kill you.    ACTUALLY kill you.

He WISHES he could retire to a yacht and his palace, but that's just not how it works. Holding onto that much power MEANS an indefinite continuous suppression of challengers (usually killing them).   

In the end it's good for no one.

The ONLY Kings who have successfully retired had extremely competent aires, (who don't try to kill the father)..  Again, this also rarely happens.


FOR Puddles,  he's doing exactly the right thing, FOR HIMSELF, From his perspective.

He's been challenged by the public, Na1\/any (who) the back end is probably funded by SOME other party O1igar(h that wishes to depose Puddles.

[fohat.digs]

It seems that recently this action has become much less common.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_and_executed_heads_of_state_and_government

[tp4tissue]

It seems that recently this action has become much less common.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_and_executed_heads_of_state_and_government

The majority of heads of state aren't the actual power.   There's the public story, and there's the behind the scenes.  It's still pretty medieval, plenty of murder and chaos.

[iri]

Actually no, there is no real reason for Putin to do this.

However, the costs of attempting this certainly don't justify the possible benefits. And the benefits will fail to materialise since Russia will eventually lose this war.

From here it seems absurdly risky in every dimension, both to Putin himself and to Russia in general.

I wish there was an actual risk to Putin.

[fohat.digs]

I wish there was an actual risk to Putin.

If a large majority of the population becomes disenchanted with a Russian leader, is there a realistic legal mechanism to remove him?

[iri]

The opinion of the population is not really important here. There is an impeachment procedure, which is quite complicated. It requires:

* an initiative by at least 1/3 of the lower house of Russian Parliament, Gosduma
* the relevant conclusion by a special commision of Gosduma
* vote 'yes to impeachment' by 2/3 of both houses of the Parliament. United Russia, the party that's aligned with Putin, has majority in both houses of the Parliament.
* a confirmation from the Supreme Court that the President has committed a crime
* a conclusion of the Constitutional Court that the process was carried out according to the Constitution

They tried to impeach Yeltsin 3 times, and all the attemps failed. And Yeltsin's Russia wasn't a dictatorship. So I won't hold my breath about Putin.

[Leslieann]

Without NATO backing, Ukraine was going to be targeted no matter what. There is no reason for Putin not to.

Actually no, there is no real reason for Putin to do this.

There is, and the scary part is how much some of it mimics the mistakes that lead to WW2.

While I don't agree entirely with everything here, it gives a pretty good breakdown, basically it comes down to Russia's economy is being impacted/controlled by Ukraine, N.A.T.O. is only one problem among many.

[kajahtaa]

Lil Pu's move is a tragedy but they're trying to reduce Bases on Russian border.

NATO is an American scam to stoke fires and sell weapons into countries that likely can't afford.

US has a long tradition of putting bases around a power then pointing fingers at an Aggressor.

[andreiborisov]

Lil Pu's move is a tragedy but they're trying to reduce Bases on Russian border.

NATO is an American scam to stoke fires and sell weapons into countries that likely can't afford.

US has a long tradition of putting bases around a power then pointing fingers at an Aggressor.

Stop thinking in terms of countries. It’s the people who matters. Everywhere people just want to live a peaceful life.

Democratic government’s are the best way of governance we have right now. It produces more wealth and better society, NATO protects interests of those democracies against dictatorship, which is inefficient form of governance. It’s that simple.

[andreiborisov]

Lil Pu's move is a tragedy but they're trying to reduce Bases on Russian border.

NATO is an American scam to stoke fires and sell weapons into countries that likely can't afford.

US has a long tradition of putting bases around a power then pointing fingers at an Aggressor.

Stop thinking in terms of countries. It’s the people who matters. Everywhere people just want to live a peaceful life.

Democratic government’s are the best way of governance we have right now. It produces more wealth and better society, NATO protects interests of those democracies against dictatorship, which is inefficient form of governance. It’s that simple.

NATO didn’t want to conquer Russia, they couldn’t care less about a poor 3rd world country.

I hope to live till the days when Russia joins NATO itself.

[iri]

I hope to live till the days when Russia joins NATO itself.

Let's look into history a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/17/russia.iantraynor

Putin brandished what he described as a recently declassified 'note' from the Soviet government to western leaders from 1954.

It stated that Moscow was 'holding to its intention of entering negotiations on joining' Nato, formed five years earlier.
(...)
He then revealed that the 1954 response from the West was that 'the unrealistic nature of the proposal does not warrant discussion'.

A mischievous Putin pointed out that he suggested Russian membership of Nato a year ago [in 2000 -- iri] but was rebuffed by Madeleine Albright, then the US Secretary of State.

And while it was stressed that Russia and America could be 'allies', Colin Powell, Albright's successor, made clear that that was 'allies with a small "a"'.

More on this: https://www.deseret.com/2001/7/18/19596959/putin-wants-nato-to-let-russia-join

[chyros]

at the same time the previous president was strongly pre-Russia from what I've understood and one could just as easily make the point that this was ultimate a death sentence.

What was 'ultimately a death sentence'?

I think one could make the case that Poroshenko's pro-Russianism was ultimately just as dangerous to Ukraine's survival as them trying to join NATO would have been.

Without NATO backing, Ukraine was going to be targeted no matter what. There is no reason for Putin not to.

Actually no, there is no real reason for Putin to do this.

Is there a reason for him NOT to, though? Everyone's made it clear they're not going to retaliate anyway.

The thing I'm still not 100% on though is what his ultimate reason for ACTUALLY doing it is though - power, prestige, propaganda, money, resources, etc. or a combination of them. That he's got little to lose seems clear, but what he stands to win isn't clear to me yet. Maybe someone from Russia or Ukraine can enlighten me on that.

Putin's intention is to install a puppet government in Ukraine.

Well that much is obvious but what I meant is, what's in Ukraine that he's got such a boner for? Are there material benefits, strategic ones (they already had a black sea base in the region), political ones, or is it really all just hunger for power?

[fohat.digs]

History has revealed that Khrushchev made overtures to both Eisenhower and Kennedy in efforts to thaw the Cold War, and they both made a mistake in not talking to him.

Do people not listen when Putin is actually saying?

"We do not see it as an enemy," he said. "We do not see a tragedy in its existence, but we also see no need for it."

NATO's expansion into Eastern Europe creates "different levels of security on the continent ... which does not correspond to today's realities and is not caused by any political or military necessity."

He called instead for the creation of a "single security and defense space in Europe," which he said could be achieved either by disbanding NATO, or by Russia joining it, or by the creation of a new body in which Russia could become an equal partner."

But he consistently used NATO as his boogeyman until it became "Ukraine was actually always a part of Russia."

[tp4tissue]

It's a little bit of everything.

There are easier ways to make money.  It may mainly an ideology thing, and a strongman stance to hold onto power in a growingly discontented R|.

[tp4tissue]

Peace talks have begun.


Honestly,  Since puddles already demonstrated that he'll commit. ..

The best thing _for the PEOPLE_ of U| is that their Gov just surrenders.  It may not really matter who rules (from the people's perspective), farmer still gonna be a farmer.

The best thing _for the O1igar(hs of  U|   is they keep fighting, though probably hopeless, then lose on purpose by selling out internal opposition.  Puddles accepts help,  utilizes said Olig in puppet gov. 

The best thing _for Puddles, is doesn't matter,  might makes right..  People in power tell their flock that that isn't true,  even though, it's clearly true. puddles is kind'of'a' di(K


Fingers crossed on successful c00p though.

IF we go n\/ks though..  this is an interesting option.. hard to predict....

[tp4tissue]

Internets, say puddles is poops himself according to "This"  shareholders report he's giving to the o1igar(hs.

Thoughts ?  is he softer than we know.

[fohat.digs]

Holy crap!

He has gotten almost as unhinged as Drumpf.

[tp4tissue]

Internet is really confused about R|'s capabilities saying things like they've got a trash military.

The only reason there's any _semblance_ of resistance at all, is because R|  doesn't WANT to just kill everyone.

R|'s being a di(k, but This has mainly been a gentleman's duel at this point.

If they were played for keeps,  it'd be over in an instant.


It's dangerous to prod R|  for too long/ escalating.

[tp4tissue]

Buzz about siege tactics now.  sigh...

[tp4tissue]

Black people/students living in Ukraine being denied at border crossings into Poland.
Denied bus rides and train  < including some Arabs/Syrians, People of color>??



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-refugees-racism-russia-invasion-b2024175.html

[tp4tissue]

Not gonna lie.. Rubles...  Thoguths ??

Ne1 ?

[tp4tissue]

This guy on twitter says Russia will lose..

But it's hard to tell.  Agreed about the missed-expectation,  but that's a weeks issue,  if this went for months,  they can still mobilize.


Something about military mythos.  IDK.... maybe if you take very pulled back view of coming and goings of dynasties,  but belief is temporary, predicated on a supply of grain and fuel. 

[fohat.digs]

Rubles

The UK will require that foreign property owners to be identified and not be hidden behind shell companies. That is huge, and the US should do much more of the same.

High-end real estate is a preferred method of money laundering. Plus, it gives the bad guys a place to live when the Russian peasants come after them with pitchforks and torches.

[fohat.digs]

Zelensky has got some serious balls on him.

In contrast, a story of Drumpf's bravery, in his own words:

“I was at Mar-a-Lago and we had this incredible ball, the Red Cross Ball, in Palm Beach, Florida. And we had the Marines. And the Marines were there, and it was terrible because all these rich people, they’re there to support the Marines, but they’re really there to get their picture in the Palm Beach Post .... so you have all these really rich people, and a man, about 80 years old—very wealthy man, a lot of people didn’t like him—he fell off the stage.”

“So what happens is, this guy falls off right on his face, hits his head, and I thought he died. And you know what I did? I said, ‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t, you know, he was right in front of me and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him .... he’s bleeding all over the place, I felt terrible. You know, beautiful marble floor, didn’t look like it. It changed color. Became very red. And you have this poor guy, 80 years old, laying on the floor unconscious, and all the rich people are turning away. ‘Oh my God! This is terrible! This is disgusting!’ and you know, they’re turning away. Nobody wants to help the guy. His wife is screaming—she’s sitting right next to him, and she’s screaming.”

[Findecanor]

The UK will require that foreign property owners to be identified and not be hidden behind shell companies. That is huge, and the US should do much more of the same.

Good. The UK used to be like a second home for several of those oligarchs.

[tp4tissue]

It's gonna be Bare Shelves if roobz inflation keeps up.

This is either going to galvanize their economy to self-produce, OR,  c00p..

[Findecanor]

Remember in 2019 when president Drumpf had withheld $400 million in military aid to Ukraine as retaliation after Zelensky had been steadfast in refusing to help find dirt on Joe Biden and his son Hunter?
Neither did I, because it got drowned in all the other manure. But apparently Drumpf was impeached for it, but got off because the procedure was a political vote and not a court case.

Last week, Drumpf praised Putin for the invasion of Ukraine, calling it "smart". When the world started condemning the invasion, Drumpf turned on a dime and started to spin it as being Biden's fault. When asked what he himself would have done differently, he did of course not have an answer.

[fohat.digs]

Remember

Neither did I

Huh? Drumpf's impeachment over his "perfect" phone call to Zelenskyy was huge news for a year.

House of Representatives impeached him but McConnell-controlled Senate failed to convict - which would have removed him from office.
 

[Findecanor]

Huh? Drumpf's impeachment over his "perfect" phone call to Zelenskyy was huge news for a year.

It is good that you don't forget. We who don't live in the US were not subjected to it as much ... and there are only so many terrible things from one person, one thing after another that you can take in before you get jaded.

[fohat.digs]

Pravda Brewery, based in Lviv, Ukraine, has suspended its beer brewing operations and is now making Molotov cocktails for residents to use against invading Russian forces.

The labels on the bottles say “Putin is a ****head.”

[Findecanor]

On TV just now, I watched a Russian woman living in Sweden who was volunteering at a church gathering supplies, such as clothes, water bottles and blankets to be shipped to civilians in the Ukraine.
She told the reporter that she — because she is doing this humanitarian work — would get 20 years in prison if she returned to Russia. What the flying F...

[fohat.digs]

Tyrants never brook dissent.

[andreiborisov]

On TV just now, I watched a Russian woman living in Sweden who was volunteering at a church gathering supplies, such as clothes, water bottles and blankets to be shipped to civilians in the Ukraine.
She told the reporter that she — because she is doing this humanitarian work — would get 20 years in prison if she returned to Russia. What the flying F...

This is true, any help from a Russian citizen (even just a consultation) to Ukrainian people can be considered as treason which get you from 14 to 20 years of prison…

[andreiborisov]

Just to be clear, i'd say 1/3 or 1/4 of all families in Russia have at least some relatives in Ukraine. Putin's propaganda tried to turn Russians against Ukrainians for many years, but the approval rating of the war is still around 8% (according to some study conducted by independent organisation, sorry can't remember which one exactly).

[andreiborisov]

Still, even though I protested this regime many times throughout the years and never worked for any government institution, I still consider myself guilty for what is happening right now. This war is an absolute madness.

[tp4tissue]

Still, even though I protested this regime many times throughout the years and never worked for any government institution, I still consider myself guilty for what is happening right now. This war is an absolute madness.

Who's the runner up for successful c00p to put puddles down ?

[andreiborisov]

Still, even though I protested this regime many times throughout the years and never worked for any government institution, I still consider myself guilty for what is happening right now. This war is an absolute madness.

Who's the runner up for successful c00p to put puddles down ?

I'm afraid, no one, he specifically gathered the most spineless people around himself

[tp4tissue]

I'm afraid, no one, he specifically gathered the most spineless people around himself

[tp4tissue]

R| can't win this without ignoring collateral damage.

It'd be kinda hard to sell it if they do... soooo...  hrrrmmm.....   Big misstep.   If he committed more right away, this would've wrapped up and it'd be done.

Now it's too late...  and he looks foolish....



Asssssuming his secret police is intact, he can stab his way out of some of it.... buhhhh, may only be a matter of time.

He could pull a Houdini, retire somewhere, and puppet R| from behind the scenes.