Apple's new butterfly keyboard switches

[trauring]

Apple announced that their new MacBook, which is a 2lb crazy-thin notebook even thinner than the MacBook Air, has a new kind of keyboard switch that they invented. They call it a butterfly switch, and say it's 4 times as stable as the scissor switch they were using before, and 40% thinner. The key caps also have a 17% larger surface area. Interesting design.

[hwood34]

400% as stable, 40% thinner, 100% junk scissor switch

[jdcarpe]

Dear Apple,

Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Thanks,
Every Mac user

[HendyZone]

Dear Apple,

Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You've been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Thanks,
Every Mac user

This will be the best MacBook ever

[SpAmRaY]

butterfly must be the current buzzword in hip keyboards, waytools textblade has a patented magnetic 'butterfly' mechanism

[hwood34]

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Where do you think half their revenue comes from

[Eugene]

If the redesign improves on just one scissor-switch flaw, then it's a win for everyone. Now to do some research and see if Apple has licensed the design from someone else or patented it for themselves.

[TopreFan333]

Dear Apple,

Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Thanks,
Every Mac user

I think you mean ".0001% of Mac users" outside the echo chamber of this forum.

[jdcarpe]

Dear Apple,

Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Thanks,
Every Mac user

I think you mean ".05% of Mac users" outside the echo chamber of this forum.

Well, okay. Maybe not the solid top option...

[daerid]

The steel dome is intriguing

[KHAANNN]

Their regular switch design also buzzes like crazy with sound, even the slightest bass makes the macbook keys buzz/irritate
I was only able to solve the issue by isolating the laptop from the desk with felt pads

I hope this one doesn't buzz if it eventually gets into macbook pro's too

[0100010]

Dear Apple,

Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You've been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Thanks,
Every Mac user

This will be the best MacBook ever

[chyros]

Ugh, this looks horrendous. Why do Apple keep making products nowadays that are just shiny and made out of a single block of aluminium rather than something functional, useful and above else, affordable? :/ I'd rather have a giant laptop with an integrated AEKII than any of these tiny switches...

[Altis]

The steel dome is intriguing

I'm very curious.

Metal domes have a tendency to be very snappy -- they are either concave or convex, but not much in between. That could make them feel less like a keyswitch and more like a button on an appliance.

Though with such an incredible shallow depth, I'm not sure how much choice they'll have. At the very least, they put some thought and effort into how the keyboard would feel, rather than let it go to pot like the rest of the Macbooks, it seems.

[Findecanor]

Apple announced that their new MacBook, which is a 2lb crazy-thin notebook even thinner than the MacBook Air, has a new kind of keyboard switch that they invented.

So, Apple has "invented" something again, huh?

Sorry, the "butterfly" stabilising is nothing new. For instance, Optimus Popularis and the Razer Star Wars keyboards have similar mechanisms.
More key surface area to key spacing is not a good thing - it increases the likelihood of pressing the wrong key.

[Altis]

More key surface area to key spacing is not a good thing - it increases the likelihood of pressing the wrong key.

That was my thought as well when I heard it.

Combine the closer keys with the extra stabilizing meaning it's both easier and more likely to press an adjacent key.

I guess we shall see.

[jacobolus]

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Can you elaborate on which part you think is bull****? ADB was basically the best peripheral connector on any PC until USB came along.

The PS/2 connectors used on Wintel PCs were a joke. Totally restart your computer to plug in a new keyboard? Are you ****ing kidding me?

[CPTBadAss]

****ing hell. Twice in three days I saw something that I thought was Marquadt butterfly switches and totally wasn't .

Now that I'm here, I'm intrigued. Gotta throw this on the list to check out along with Romer-G Omrons and Linear Matias.

[jacobolus]

More key surface area to key spacing is not a good thing - it increases the likelihood of pressing the wrong key.

This was my thought too, but I’m guessing they probably subjected the new keyboard to a huge amount of user testing, so maybe they know something we don’t.

[jacobolus]

100% junk scissor switch

As you can see in the picture, there’s no scissoring involved here. It’s 100% junk butterfly, okay?

[jacobolus]

They’re using a different typeface for the legends:



I must say, I’m not impressed with the glyphs for symbols and punctuation, or the alignment of anything, on the new legends. I think they just pulled the same glyphs intended to be used in printed text, rather than customizing them to make sense in the context of keyboard legends, and as a result the stroke widths, glyph sizes, etc. are all over the map. The previous Apple laptop legend designs seem much more careful and consistent. I think these might actually be the least carefully done keycap legends on any Apple keyboard since the M0110. For all that some people here dislike like the Condensed Oblique Univers of the late 80s / early 90s, everything else about the legend design was done with careful attention to detail.

Using smaller outlined glyphs for the various functions like media controls, volume, brightness, etc. makes them all less distinguishable and less legible.

Interesting how they reversed the text alignment on the bottom row. I like the old one marginally better, but it’s not really a big deal.

I can’t imagine there’s any real positive advantage of the larger keytop size and reduced space between keys. The old ones seemed pretty reasonably sized/spaced, but I wouldn’t even mind slightly more space between keys than those, I think.

The bottom row, including the spacebar, seems to not be quite as wide as on the old keyboard. (Personally I think it would benefit by being an extra ~5 millimeters wider. An extra wide spacebar makes quite a nice improvement in typing comfort.

Extra long escape is kind of an interesting change. Might be nice, even though the trade-off is squeezing the F keys.

I’m definitely not a fan of the new left/right arrows. The little gaps in the old version are really helpful for locating the arrow cluster.

Overall a lot of this new design looks like it was rushed out by some interns.

[Findecanor]

Note also that the bottom row is not as high as on the old keyboard. That means that the up/down arrow keys are smaller.

The PS/2 connectors used on Wintel PCs were a joke. Totally restart your computer to plug in a new keyboard? Are you ****ing kidding me?

ADB wasn't without problems either. Woz intended it to be hot-swapped but not every implementation supported it.

[rush340]

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Whaaa...  Are you talking about USB-C? That's the most exciting thing about it!

I can't wait until I can plug a USB cable in upside down or backwards and not worry about having the right USB A, B, Mini, Micro, WTF, etc cable.  Being able to use it for network, video, and power is also amazing.  Adapters will become dirt cheap once non-Apple products start using it.

It is disappointing that it only has one port, but I'm not planning on buying it anyways, just excited about that it's ushering USB-C in.

[Altis]

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Whaaa...  Are you talking about USB-C? That's the most exciting thing about it!

I can't wait until I can plug a USB cable in upside down or backwards and not worry about having the right USB A, B, Mini, Micro, WTF, etc cable.  Being able to use it for network, video, and power is also amazing.  Adapters will become dirt cheap once non-Apple products start using it.

It is disappointing that it only has one port, but I'm not planning on buying it anyways, just excited about that it's ushering USB-C in.

It's very handy for docking. One connector and you have power, USB devices, and monitor. I very much like the idea of that, though I honestly wonder whether I'd bother docking a laptop with a Core M processor (strangely mixed with 8GB of RAM). We shall see what the performance ends up being on this thing.

[derezzed]

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Where do you think half their revenue comes from

For many years, other half of their income came from selling $30 rubber bands to iPhone 4 owners who, according to Steve Jobs, aren't smart enough to know how to hold a phone properly.

It will be interesting to see what sort of patent litigation arises out of Apple and WayTools both having "butterfly" style switches.

[jacobolus]

I can’t wait until every phone, camera, keyboard, drawing tablet, microphone, MIDI instrument, flash storage stick, printer, projector, car/airplane power jack, LED desk lamp, remote control car, etc. uses the same tiny reversible connector. It’s going to be amazing.

[tribade]

I'm interested to see if these switches are any good.  I've been a life-long apple fan so it's hard to imagine my life with a windows laptop but if this keyboard is really that ****ty then it might be the last straw.  Keyboards have become increasingly important to me thank to you *******s 

[tbc]

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Whaaa...  Are you talking about USB-C? That's the most exciting thing about it!

I can't wait until I can plug a USB cable in upside down or backwards and not worry about having the right USB A, B, Mini, Micro, WTF, etc cable.  Being able to use it for network, video, and power is also amazing.  Adapters will become dirt cheap once non-Apple products start using it.

It is disappointing that it only has one port, but I'm not planning on buying it anyways, just excited about that it's ushering USB-C in.

It's very handy for docking. One connector and you have power, USB devices, and monitor. I very much like the idea of that, though I honestly wonder whether I'd bother docking a laptop with a Core M processor (strangely mixed with 8GB of RAM). We shall see what the performance ends up being on this thing.

when you have less performance, having ram actually becomes more important.  it allows you to do more things in parallel, giving you he impression of overall 'fasterness'

also keep in mind that a core M is going to be more powerful than core 2 duos (if i did the numbers in my head correctly).

[Coreda]

They’re using a different typeface for the legends:

Show Image

Wait, no fvcking way. They actually ended up going with the ridiculous fat arrow keys?

Now I think about, it's not so bad practically but aesthetically it's a bit odd.

TBH the main issue with the new design is the single port. Practically thread worthy.

[KRKS]

Totally restart your computer to plug in a new keyboard? Are you ****ing kidding me?

Hotswapping PS/2 works fine on Debian. I even did it just now to check.

[jacobolus]

Hotswapping PS/2 works fine on Debian. I even did it just now to check.

Did you try it in ~1985–1995 on DOS or Windows 3.1, the time-frame and operating systems relevant for comparisons vs. ADB?

[Findecanor]

Hotswapping PS/2 is bad not just because of missing OS support but because it could damage some motherboards.

[bazh]

the fat left/right arrow keys are always the worst on the laptop keyboard, one of the reason I like the old MB's keyboard, and now they **** it up


Anyway I don't put much hope in a keyboard with a travel distance of 1mm, I'd rather have a solid surface to easily put my HHKB on

[mecano]

Dear Apple,

Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Thanks,
Every Mac user

I think you mean "3% of Mac users" outside the echo chamber of this forum.

Well, okay. Maybe not the solid top option...

A keyboard dock that would be cool.
What are they waiting for to put OLED keyboard in these?

I can’t wait until every phone, camera, keyboard, drawing tablet, microphone, MIDI instrument, flash storage stick, printer, projector, car/airplane power jack, LED desk lamp, remote control car, etc. uses the same tiny reversible connector. It’s going to be amazing.

What do you mean? Can this connector carry both DC and data at same time? Can you hook usb devices, thunderbolt or whatever display, hard drives, audio interface all running together without suffering delays? It's ok for an ultra portable fashionable computer that will never see much more than it power brick in it life or a SD card reader twice upon a time but then…
Unified connector in it form factor is a nice idea though.

[Oobly]

Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.

Whaaa...  Are you talking about USB-C? That's the most exciting thing about it!

I can't wait until I can plug a USB cable in upside down or backwards and not worry about having the right USB A, B, Mini, Micro, WTF, etc cable.  Being able to use it for network, video, and power is also amazing.  Adapters will become dirt cheap once non-Apple products start using it.

It is disappointing that it only has one port, but I'm not planning on buying it anyways, just excited about that it's ushering USB-C in.

Um... actually I believe he was referring to all the proprietary Apple connectors / protocols. I can personally attest to the fact that they are a real PITA for anyone developing a peripheral. ADB, 30-pin dock connector, Lightning, etc. are all proprietary and you have to pay to use them if you develop a peripheral for Apple devices. They also integrated FireWire instead of USB when USB started to become popular and only conceded to adding USB ports when it started to become ubiquitous.

I really applaud the use of the USB-C connector, but they're not the first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N1

I wonder if they'll replace the Lightning connector on the iPhones and iPads with USB-C. If they do, it'll be a refreshing dose of reason and common sense for them, but I think they're making too much money from peripheral manufacturers who have to pay them $4 per device that has a Lightning connector.

Anyway, back on topic. I have never felt a steel dome button I like the feel of. They're all a bit like baby food jar lids, "Click-tock", so I doubt this board will feel very good to type on. I suspect it will also not be very kind to fingers. Many phone keyboards (Blackberry, etc) are metal dome.... Of course, being Apple, I'm sure they've made it at least a little better than some of those, but the technology simply does not offer much in the way of tuning the feel.

[vivalarevolución]

Um... actually I believe he was referring to all the proprietary Apple connectors / protocols. I can personally attest to the fact that they are a real PITA for anyone developing a peripheral. ADB, 30-pin dock connector, Lightning, etc. are all proprietary and you have to pay to use them if you develop a peripheral for Apple devices. They also integrated FireWire instead of USB when USB started to become popular and only conceded to adding USB ports when it started to become ubiquitous.

I really applaud the use of the USB-C connector, but they're not the first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N1

I wonder if they'll replace the Lightning connector on the iPhones and iPads with USB-C. If they do, it'll be a refreshing dose of reason and common sense for them, but I thnk they're making too much money from peripheral manufacturers who have to pay them $4 per device that has a Lightning connector.

Changing up the connector is a great way for Apple to make some cash money when they force you to buy new adapters or the peripheral manufacturers that have to pay Apple for each device.

Anyways, it's rubber dome.  Meh.

[Salaryman Ryan]

According to the Verge:

"To make it that thin, Apple had to make some adjustments, starting with the keyboard. It takes a little getting used to, since it doesn't really feel like any standard MacBook keyboard I've used. Although Apple says that it has created an all new butterfly mechanism to make typing feel great, the keys felt fairly stiff to me, with such little travel that I wasn't sure if I was really typing. It's as close to typing on a glass tablet screen as you'll get with physical keys, and you have to rely on autocorrect just as much when you're going really fast. I imagine I could get used to it with just a little bit of time, though."

I still would like to try it myself but based on this first impression, not sure if I'm going to like it.

[Oobly]

...
Anyways, it's rubber dome.  Meh.

Nope, it's metal dome.

[Sencha]

Dear apple please start using Topre switches.

[MajorMajor]

...
Anyways, it's rubber dome.  Meh.

Nope, it's metal dome.

Yep, I'll be interested in trying these out just to see how they feel. I think the key travel will be too short for comfort, and the longevity might be pretty bad.

[jacobolus]

Anyway, back on topic. I have never felt a steel dome button I like the feel of. They're all a bit like baby food jar lids, "Click-tock", so I doubt this board will feel very good to type on. I suspect it will also not be very kind to fingers. Many phone keyboards (Blackberry, etc) are metal dome.... Of course, being Apple, I'm sure they've made it at least a little better than some of those, but the technology simply does not offer much in the way of tuning the feel.

You should try IBM beam spring switches sometime. Not exactly a dome shape, but same basic idea.

[TopreFan333]

Yep, I'll be interested in trying these out just to see how they feel. I think the key travel will be too short for comfort, and the longevity might be pretty bad.

Yeah, one review I read said the travel was really low (which is saying something, compared to the current-generation of switches). I'll have to try it myself, but it sounds kind of awful:

Although Apple says that it has created an all new butterfly mechanism to make typing feel great, the keys felt fairly stiff to me, with such little travel that I wasn't sure if I was really typing. It's as close to typing on a glass tablet screen as you'll get with physical keys, and you have to rely on autocorrect just as much when you're going really fast. I imagine I could get used to it with just a little bit of time, though.

Yuck. I definitely don't get the obsession with thin-ness here. Lightness is nice, but why not trade a few fractions of an inch and a few ounces for some more key travel and maybe putting back in some of the ports they stripped out. *sigh*

[heedpantsnow]

I can't imagine how typing on metal domes for hours on end wouldn't be terrible for your finger joints. Lots of force to start, then very little resistance through the travel, then a really hard bottom.

[vivalarevolución]

Yuck. I definitely don't get the obsession with thin-ness here. Lightness is nice, but why not trade a few fractions of an inch and a few ounces for some more key travel and maybe putting back in some of the ports they stripped out. *sigh*

Most of Apple's consumers probably don't give a damn about the feel of the keyboard, and are more concerned with other factors of the device.  So lightness, thinness, portability are more important than typing feel.

What I don't get is the single port idea.  Could you at least give me two ports so I can charge and use another peripheral at the same time?  I know there are adapters that expand to multiple ports, but those are limited at the moment.

[daerid]

What I don't get is the single port idea.  Could you at least give me two ports so I can charge and use another peripheral at the same time?  I know there are adapters that expand to multiple ports, but those are limited at the moment.

This laptop isn't targeted at people who need more ports. Its target is pure portability. If you need extra ports, pack a usb-c hub or $20 adapter

[jacobolus]

What I don't get is the single port idea.  Could you at least give me two ports so I can charge and use another peripheral at the same time?

Not without making the whole laptop bigger.

[daerid]

There will also probably be dual-purpose USB-C charging hubs that will provide extra ports while charging the laptop as well.

[jacobolus]

Apple is already selling those for $80. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter

[TopreFan333]

Most of Apple's consumers probably don't give a damn about the feel of the keyboard, and are more concerned with other factors of the device.  So lightness, thinness, portability are more important than typing feel.

I'm one of their consumers and I type on my Macbook Air a LOT, and I know a lot of people who do the same. It's not a terrible keyboard, honestly. I'm reserving judgement on the new one until I try it, but if that guy is right it sounds kind of bad.

[Eugene]

USB Type-C connectors are physically inferior to the Lightning connector in at least one major sense. The female receptacle makes use of a fragile tongue. In contrast, the Lightning male connector is itself the tongue.

Also a reminder that Lightning is just a reconfigurable connector and not a serial bus.