XP to 7 migration tomorrow - OMG - heart attack or bliss?

[TexasFlood]

Yes if Windows 8 becomes the next Vista and is greatly delayed & has many serious issues upon arrival. One would think Microsoft would has learned that lesson, we will see.

[Lanx]

lol Microsoft has made OS's for so long, i think if they were smart, they'd know "wow's our trackrecord says that windows 8 is gonna suck (and it does, i put it on my HTPC), lets put the B team on windows 8 and put the A team making windows 9, now).

I mean, i'm literally amazed at how good win7 is, 2 years ago i raided 2 ssd's and put my win7 install disc on a thumb drive and installed the os in 10mins, yea libraries are stupid, networking is stupid, homegroup is stupid... just have to live with it. (i've actually found a use for favorites tho).

[TheProfosist]

I dont see why all of think you think that win 8 is going to suck so much if you dont want metro dont use it.

[keyboardlover]

I, for one, can't WAIT to get Windows 8.

I hear Metro is going to be especially good for kids. Very intuitive GUI and lots of good kid apps in the app store. You hear that parents?

[TexasFlood]

I dont see why all of think you think that win 8 is going to suck so much if you dont want metro dont use it.

I've got nothing against it, yet, really. But also have no burning desire for it, yet, really. Hell I just went to Windows 7!

[TheProfosist]

I've got nothing against it, yet, really. But also have no burning desire for it, yet, really. Hell I just went to Windows 7!

well if you have the newer hardware there are going to be a ton of improvements as to how the OS deals with it. I wish they would just puiblish a huge list of all the major things they changed between OSs because to show you all the improvements i would have to dig through a years worth of news.

[Internetlad]

win8 will be awesome on tablets and tepid on desktops. There is nothing earth shattering about it other than metro, and it certainly won't perform worse, as it is made for ****ty tablet components.

Vista SP1 and later on decent specs is not that bad. The problem with Vista was that everybody was slapping it on machines that ran XP fine and it ran like crap.

Acer, Dell, ETC would throw it as a "free upgrade" at the user who didn't know better, running it on a single core celeron 512 MB that would have run XP decently and it was a total hog.

The icing on the cake was the Mac vs PC ads and suddenly vista had this stigma around it.

If you run a clean (not loaded with HP/Dell/Toshiba laptop garbage) install of Vista SP2 on a modern PC, it's very similar to 7.

EDIT: Also, I don't remember win95 being that bad, Then again I was 7 at the time.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes there is a lot of core OS optimization on 8 especially in resource management. I am sure option to disable metro will be in release verison. If there was no way to turn it off they would severely cripple corporate sales. I'm not sold on metro for desktop use. I see what they were trying to do with it, but maybe it will be good after the customizer scene is done with it.

[Internetlad]

I am sure option to disable metro will be in release verison.

And use what? They're giving the start menu the axe.

Metro is the new start menu.

From what i've heard there are "apps" (ugh, stupid) that mimic the start menu, but they are aftermarket third party.

I heard a leaked version of the RC was out on PB, but as the actual RC is out next week i'm just going to wait..

[alaricljs]

If you can skip metro completely and still have all the standard Win7 features, and if they fixed the audio output switching stupidity I might think about it.  The audio thing irritates me enough to switch from Win7 if I'm not losing anything I currently use and don't have to put up with Metro.  

I don't use the start menu anyway, Launchy does me fine there.

[keyboardlover]

You don't need to enable/disable metro. You don't even need to use it EVER in Windows 8.

It's a completely separate operating environment. They just happen to both boot at the same time.

You can basically think of connecting to Metro like connecting to a VM.

[Internetlad]

If you can skip metro completely and still have all the standard Win7 features, and if they fixed the audio output switching stupidity I might think about it.  The audio thing irritates me enough to switch from Win7 if I'm not losing anything I currently use and don't have to put up with Metro.  

I don't use the start menu anyway, Launchy does me fine there.

you'll have to elaborate on the "audio output thing" as i've not heard anybody gripe about that yet.

Either way, it sounds like you want windows 7 all over again. m$ can't win either way. if they made it the way everybody wants it, there would be people moaning about how they didn't change anything.

It's a completely separate operating environment. They just happen to both boot at the same time.

When i was playing with the devo prerelease it booted in to metro and you would choose to go to the desktop from there. Unless you have everything layed out on your desktop how are you going to get to your programs?

Again, I haven't played with it since maybe the first or second week after the Dev pre-release so maybe stuff has changed, but it seemed much more linear than that to me.

As far as i'm concerned, it will be good on tablets, but it doesn't seem suitable, from what i've seen, for your average joe desktop to move from Win7. Too many fancy touch controls and nothing earth shattering that makes me need it.

[alaricljs]

Have 2 sound cards of some form (I have on-board and 1 USB)  change the current default output device.  Tell me how annoying it would be to do that regularly.

I don't want Win7 all over again, but I definitely don't want a tablet paradigm shoved onto the desktop.  I think the point I was trying to make was that if I could get a desktop env that betters what's in Win7 I'd go for it.  

[keyboardlover]

When i was playing with the devo prerelease it booted in to metro and you would choose to go to the desktop from there. Unless you have everything layed out on your desktop how are you going to get to your programs?

Again, I haven't played with it since maybe the first or second week after the Dev pre-release so maybe stuff has changed, but it seemed much more linear than that to me.

If that was the case then, it isn't now. I attended a dev conference at Microsoft a few weeks ago that was all about Windows 8 and it was the complete opposite - it booted into the desktop environment by default. You then could choose whether or not to fire up Metro.

[alaricljs]

Here, install VirtualBox and find out all about Win8.

[Internetlad]

Well, I'll have to play with the RC when it's out, if it isn't already.

EDIT: Reading fail, previous comment had the article.

I'll have to pick this up and check it out sometime in the near future. always good to keep abreast of current situations.

[IvanIvanovich]

I knew they forced metro interface in the CP release for testing purpose. Businesses don't like a bunch of flashy eye candy in the work environment, must always be way to turn it all off via group policies at the least.

[Internetlad]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Windows-Windows-8-Metro-Start-Button-hack,15831.html

Third paragraph

Apparently Microsoft is also removing the ability for businesses to boot to the desktop.

"And those with hopes that Microsoft would allow businesses, at least, to boot directly to the desktop should prepare for disappointment," he added. "That feature not only isn't happening, it's being removed from Windows Server 12 (Windows 8's stable mate) as well."

I know a link to Tomshardware isn't definitive, but it's written by one of their more legitimate writers (IE not kevin parrish)

[IvanIvanovich]

Desktop of the future! :loco:

[TexasFlood]

There are so many rumors right now I'm not sure any conclusions can be drawn.

IIRC starting with Windows server 2008 the core OS hasn't included the GUI so more like unix in that respect. Will M$ abandon the desktop GUI for home & business desktop users? No way I would say.

But all these rumors are free press for Micro$oft and selling magazines, getting web hits for somebody.

The most likely end result is the core OS will have no GUI and you can pick either a desktop pretty close to classic or metro.  The overwhelming majority of desktop users will likely pick the former, tablet users the former, and a lot of servers neither.

[Internetlad]

large buttons to choose what you want to run, no start menu, all programs on/in folders on desktop

hmm, [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 52055[/ATTACH]

seems familiar

All joking aside if they can optimize Win8 well, and keep it stable, people won't have a reason to complain, and will, I daresay, put up with metro.

I personally don't think it will be the huge public blunder Vista was. IMO the reason vista failed was that it was too resource intensive for the average (IE 500 dollar laptop) PC it was being run on. Combine that with 3 security popups to make a new folder (for example) and the fact that XP was stable, I can see how people were understandably put off.

Win8 doesn't really meet the same criteria, it's apparently less resource intensive than it's older brother, they're trimming a lot of the fat. I'm looking forward to seeing how apple so delicately dissects win8 with their inevitable new commercials. If Apple is good at one thing, it's their advertising team. I'm pretty sure they breed them especially to work for apple.

Tim Cook is already getting nitpicky
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9227627/Apple_CEO_Tim_Cooks_knocks_Windows_8_baggage_

[TexasFlood]

Good one, the young'uns might not get it.

[TheProfosist]

Was just going to post about them removing the ability for 3rd pary start menu and not letting you boot to the desktop but someone bebat me to it, the same article even.

[fohat.digs]

It has been nearly a week now, and, all-in-all, I am pretty satisfied. Although it has been dreadfully tedious and as frustrating as these things always are, it has not been any worse than I was expecting.

As I suspected, 90%+ of my remaining frustration is the result of the brain-death of Windows Explorer.

2 components in particular are making me want to scream and pull my hair out.

When I hover over a thumbnail or icon, I need to see the details, file size in particular.

I also need to see the full path of whatever I am looking at, somewhere, preferably at the top.

Although I have been into "Tools" and "View" numerous times, and ticked the settings that seemed to be what I needed to make these things happen, they don't.

Paths never seem to go up more than a level or 2, most of my files look like they top out at "harry" although I know that it is actually "C:\users\harry" so why is it so stubborn about not saying so?

I have 5 hard drives internal and several more loose ones that I hook up externally from time to time, so these things are important to me.

I am still struggling to keep "libraries" from ever seeing or acknowledging that any drive but C: exists. Those things are truly nasty and evil!

How do I get my thumbnails to give up information when I hover over them? In "View" it looks like I specified that, but it never happens.

Thanks!

[alaricljs]

Organize->Folder and Search Options->View tab
check:
display file size info in folder tips
show pop-up description for folder and desktop items

The issue with full paths is that Explorer considers certain 'special' folders to be a ROOT folder.  This includes any root user profile folder (harry for you).  There's really nothing you can do about this.  What makes this more interesting is when you use a domain and roaming profiles.  My user folder resides on the network and c:\users\ is an empty directory.  Within my user folder are folders that reside in my profile and folders that have been relocated to another network share, this fact also is hidden.

[fohat.digs]

Thank you!

I had checked the first one, but not the second.

My brain must be wired differently from the people in Redmond. I am a "visual" person and basically "picture myself" moving around my system as if I were driving my car to destinations via roads.

Having arcane and convoluted methodologies for navigation to "common" places is like taking a helicopter to "hop around" from place to place without touching down in between. That may work well for some people, but it makes me insane.

Why can't they even provide for an option for simple, clean, direct, accurate, unambiguous linear navigation? And if something is not physically on your box, then jump tracks like transferring to another bus line, but make it available in some manner!

Another example is Google Mail/Docs which I am deeply grateful for, but a year or so ago they changed the way all your documents are organized: now they are in reverse chronological order - newest to oldest.

So if I want to find my "Miller" documents, I don't go to the "M" section, I have to try to remember how long ago it might have been when I opened them! Is that bizarre and absurd, or what? Sure, they provide "Search" but why force you to do that? And what if you remember that it starts with "M" but not the exact spelling?

But I digress.

[sth]

Paths never seem to go up more than a level or 2, most of my files look like they top out at "harry" although I know that it is actually "C:\users\harry" so why is it so stubborn about not saying so?

Another fantastic holdover from microsoft's pre-multi-user days...

[Malphas]

The whole multi-user thing was a blip anyway, and not really worth bothering with, everyone in the developed world surely has their own computer(s) by now rather than sharing some beige family desktop. Sharing computers feels as bad as sharing toothbrushes to me. I've never actually used the whole "My Documents" and user specific folder things, but then I have a completely convoluted setup with multiple drives and a Drobo, etc.

[JaccoW]

I often use it for my little netbook while traveling. With both my parents and my sister using it I want to keep things separated.

[TexasFlood]

The whole multi-user thing was a blip anyway, and not really worth bothering with, everyone in the developed world surely has their own computer(s) by now rather than sharing some beige family desktop. Sharing computers feels as bad as sharing toothbrushes to me. I've never actually used the whole "My Documents" and user specific folder things, but then I have a completely convoluted setup with multiple drives and a Drobo, etc.

For our home computer and my mom's home computer, the accounts are there but basically hidden from the users, they just boot into the shared account without being prompted for a password.  I have separate logins to them for administrative purposes and I most often log in over the network.  My mom's PC is slightly hacked to allow me to login via RDP without logging her off. I can get on & off without disrupting her.  Can also shadow her session if needed which can be extremely helpful for an issue that she can't describe in a way I can understand. I can't think of a major OS that isn't multi-user and don't understand calling it a "blip".

[fohat.digs]

Where can I find Power Toys for Windows 7?

I have used them for years, but whenever I google it I get non-Microsoft utilities that I am less interested in.

For right now, I need the picture re-sizer.

thanks


PS - I help out my computer-illiterate friend/boss with Team Viewer and it works like a charm. I highly recommend it for bailing out your friends/family/etc who can't figure out how to open a file, without having to leave your desk.

[retsteel]

I can't think of a major OS that isn't multi-user and don't understand calling it a "blip".

There was a time when Windows was not multi-user... it is a blip in that it is something left over from those times.

[TexasFlood]

Doesn't look like it's been released.  I google and saw some some are included in Windows 7, some non-Microsoft alternatives as well as some ways to get the XP versions working on 7 (like the calculator).  With regard to the picture re-sizer, a clone is all I found.

[TexasFlood]

There was a time when Windows was not multi-user... it is a blip in that it is something left over from those times.

Back when it was basically GUI for MS-DOS yes, but Windows has long since progressed in moving towards Unix, :wink:

[Malphas]

I can't think of a major OS that isn't multi-user and don't understand calling it a "blip".

What about Android? And it's a blip in terms of the way people actually use their computers. Computers are cheap and ubiquitous enough now that everyone I know has their own computer, if not several.  No-one shares a single PC like they did in the 90's.

[sth]

You're confusing multi-user OS with multi-user machine. Multi-user OSes are built around user-based permissions. Microsoft tacked a lot of that on as an afterthought when they introduced multiple user accounts and as a result there are some interface weirdlies like the desktop being the root folder.

[Malphas]

Yes. I'm not confusing anything though, I said "multi-user thing". I just think it's a generally pointless area these days. I'm not actually trying to make any kind of point about it.

[TexasFlood]

Yes. I'm not confusing anything though, I said "multi-user thing". I just think it's a generally pointless area these days. I'm not actually trying to make any kind of point about it.

For home Windows users maybe, in a corporate environment it's integral to both servers and most workstations. As the home products are essentially the same as corporate workstations versions, the features are there if needed but don't have to use them.  Many home Unix/Linux users do leverage this IMHO.

[TexasFlood]

Yes. I'm not confusing anything though, I said "multi-user thing". I just think it's a generally pointless area these days. I'm not actually trying to make any kind of point about it.

For home Windows users maybe, in a corporate environment it's integral to both servers and most workstations. As the home products are essentially the same as corporate workstations versions, the features are there if needed but don't have to use them.  Many home Unix/Linux users do leverage this IMHO, because it's more likely to be used AS a server, a file server, media server, proxy server etc.

[sth]

It matters for home users too. Open up task manager, check 'show processes from all users' and look at all the threads running under other usernames.

[TexasFlood]

Excellent point, even if you're not using additional accounts for users, accounts like, what are the, local, network, system, are valuable from a security perspective if nothing else.