geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Art of Payce on Mon, 25 July 2016, 22:17:19
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I've been on TKL Gateron browns for a year now and while I'm very satisfied with the feel, I'm troubled by incessant key chatter even after a firmware update. I know some chatter is inherent to mechs, but I'd rather have none whatsoever moving forward. I've contacted the manufacturer. In the meantime, I'm looking into a board for work which involves regular data entry and light accounting.
With the Advent of the Topre clones, I want to double check with you all: Are all electro capacitiive switch keyboards 100% chatter (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjGwoLnlJDOAhVJ4IMKHW-OAWYQFggeMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdeskthority.net%2Fwiki%2FChatter&usg=AFQjCNEWWq9F4Cuo_Mf3tPgEIOPlIFcGKA&sig2=S7WHFSa9eoD207v0xtas-w)-free by design or can only Topre make that claim? Right now I'm looking at the Hansung CHF7 OfficeMaster (http://item2.gmarket.co.kr/English/detailview/item.aspx?goodscode=751504427) and the ABKO K965P (http://item2.gmarket.co.kr/English/detailview/item.aspx?goodscode=816527146) so I can have Korean legends. Anyone with any Topre clone experience, e.g. Plum or Kludge, feel free to chime in.
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Well "chatter" is when your switch fails to debounce properly. By definition, it can't happen on a switch that doesn't have any contacts to bounce in the first place.
Of course, there are various ways that different kinds of non-contact switches can go wrong, but none of these would count as chatter.
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Well "chatter" is when your switch fails to debounce properly. By definition, it can't happen on a switch that doesn't have any contacts to bounce in the first place.
Of course, there are various ways that different kinds of non-contact switches can go wrong, but none of these would count as chatter.
Could you clue me into what kind of things can go wrong? I haven't read about any potential issues with Topre or its clones. Only good things.
Also, should I interpret your answer as "Yes, all EC switch keyboards, Topre or otherwise, are chatter-free"? Sorry to press the point, but it's the main reason I'm considering a clone at the moment.
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I have owned 7 or 8 mechanical keyboards, and a few of them have had issues with "chatter." It is quite annoying. Sometimes the updated firmware will help, but in this case it does not seem to have to. In my experience (which is limited) the chatter always seems to happen with the spacebar. I think it has something to do with the length of the key and it not being hit in the center. Firmware updates have been moderately effective. There are also debounce settings in windows which set the length of time in which a keystroke can be repeated, and this can slow down the chatter.
Ultimately I have found if these fail the only fix has been to replace the defective switch, and with a switch that is less prone to chatter. I've had problems with Gateron Browns chattering with the space bar. It's possible that replacing it with another Gateron would have solved the problem, but I chose to replace it with a Cherry Brown, and this 100 percent solved the problem. So you can see there are several options, so do some research and make a decision.
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Thanks for your thoughts, mate. Unfortunately, I didn't get far with my firmware update which only improved backlight options. Definitely getting chatter from the spacebar, but many other alphas too (I have to edit 80% of everything I type due to it). Maybe it's poor QC on the Gaterons? I don't know, but having experienced this level of chatter, I'm leaning heavily towards an EC keyboard to extinguish the problem altogether. Seems like soldering is my destiny though. It was always more effort than I wanted to put into this damn interest...
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Soldering is a good skill to have whether your future involves building amplifiers or fixing abused baby toys :thumb:
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Soldering is a good skill to have whether your future involves building amplifiers or fixing abused baby toys :thumb:
I need to get myself a kit and get started. I'd rather not have to solder switches the first time I have to do it lol.
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Well "chatter" is when your switch fails to debounce properly. By definition, it can't happen on a switch that doesn't have any contacts to bounce in the first place.
Of course, there are various ways that different kinds of non-contact switches can go wrong, but none of these would count as chatter.
Could you clue me into what kind of things can go wrong? I haven't read about any potential issues with Topre or its clones. Only good things.
Also, should I interpret your answer as "Yes, all EC switch keyboards, Topre or otherwise, are chatter-free"? Sorry to press the point, but it's the main reason I'm considering a clone at the moment.
Right, any keyboard without contacts, which includes Topre and its clones, cannot experience chatter.
The clone boards aren't exactly running the World's Cleanest PCBs, which can cause random issues. If you read the comments on the Royal Kludge boards from Massdrop, you'll see that people have experienced issues with stuck keys, missed keystrokes, and even ghosting. Mine suffered some ghosting-- this went away after I gave the PCB a thorough going over to remove crud and residue left over from manufacturing, but I wasn't able to get the dome sheet off without damaging it, leading to more problems down the line.
I should point out that there are a couple of options besides EC switch keyboards if you want to avoid chatter. As I mentioned above, it is logically impossible for any switch without contacts to experience chatter. This includes not only EC switches, but also optical switches (e.g. Flaretech, Light Strike), which are available in a variety of characteristics, and magnetic switches (e.g. oldschool Hall Effect, the fancy version of PadTech's switch), which are usually linear.
Alternatively, if you want a lower-tech solution that doesn't require you to break out the soldering iron all the time, you can look into keyboards that support hot swapping switches-- there are a bunch of different ones available now. That way, if a switch starts to chatter, you can just pull it out and put in a new one.
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I think so, and it makes me look forward to the coming topre clones. if they are close in quality for less I may get a few. Now if only there was a model f clone that used the xt layout...
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I don't think this is overlooked at all...This is part of the reason why they're so reliable and have so few problems...