Author Topic: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...  (Read 14413 times)

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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 21 May 2016, 23:40:09 »
yes both are rubber but that doesnt mean much. Its the same as mcdonalds hamburgers and this http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3677/9414999017_777b303c3e.jpg in terms of difference.
That link looks like someone took a picture of a mcdonalds billboard and a picture of a subway billboard, and photoshopped it into an inedible freak-of-nature sandwich tower. Not sure what it has to do with keyboards.

As for Topre, it’s pretty much like a regular rubber dome board from the 1980s as far as I’m concerned. I’ll type on it if it’s plugged into the computer I’m using, but it’s hardly an inspiring experience and not worth spending particular effort or money on. YMMV.

Luckily, if you buy a used one you can resell it for about the same price, so at worst you’re out the shipping. Doesn’t hurt to try.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 May 2016, 23:42:12 by jacobolus »

Offline NightCabbage

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 21 May 2016, 23:58:11 »
As for Topre, it’s pretty much like a regular rubber dome board from the 1980s as far as I’m concerned. I’ll type on it if it’s plugged into the computer I’m using, but it’s hardly an inspiring experience and not worth spending particular effort or money on. YMMV.

Ah, see that's what I'm worried about... that I'll spend $200 on a keyboard, and it won't be much better than what I've already got.

Other choice is a Matias Tactile Pro 4... At least that would feel different :P

Offline SenorCit

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:08:45 »
This is actually the exact same thing that annoys me about MX Blues. Haven't had the same issue with buckling springs, MX Browns, or Matias Quiet Click. The latter is really a great switch, more tactile, heavier and quieter than the MX Brown. Too bad my Matias died on me..:(


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Offline Bigpock

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:11:02 »
I wouldn't get any of the 4 boards you mentioned in the OP

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:25:34 »
If you want to test whether you really like tactile ALPS-style switches, you could always buy a D07-135, then either a) upgrade if you like the feel, or b) just move on if you don't.
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Offline Woolybully67

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:39:12 »
Quote
I am quiet tempted to buy one of the Matias boards, though I'm not entirely sure which... The keyboards don't have a lot of features, but I don't really require too many. Mainly I'm annoyed they've changed the standard layout, to remove the right Windows and Context keys, and replace them with a single (useless) Fn key (that only does Play/Next/Prev on Esc/F1/F2). But other than this, they seem pretty good. And I think I'll love the actual switches!

I just joined on here after my first mechanical keyboard purchase which happens to be a Matias Quiet Pro. With regards to your post above, it turns out Matias HAS been listening to the people out there who wanted a more vanilla layout without a Fn key. It's not 100% to your liking but there is now a right context key there, still no right Win key. Maybe you could use autohotkey or something else to remap that. The response I got from support was that they have not gotten around to updating all their marketing materials yet to reflect the change so most pages still show the media keys.

Here's a picture of the most current layout:
137767-0

I bought mine from here: https://jet.com/product/Matias-Quiet-Pro-Keyboard-for-PC-Black-USB-with-3-port-USB-20-hub/6d4a2f2b3e0a4c23b82109f728fa7658. That is an awesome place to purchase the board because first time customers get 15% off (coupon code 15NOW but you can probably find others on google) so you wind up with a steal. My total came out to $119 shipped.

This isn't going to help your decision making much but previously I tried out a few friends' cherry boards and didn't find the experience to be overwhelmingly positive. Plus the keyboards I saw at most of the usual places looked more like they belonged at an EDM concert than on my desk, I just wanted something basic without a thousand LEDs. When I was shopping around it seemed like with cherry boards the more basic you want the higher price you have to pay and I couldn't justify that cost with my experience testing them out.

Like I said this is my first mechanical so I'm by no means an expert and haven't had the pleasure of trying a topre but I can see myself hanging onto this matias for a long, long time. It's a fair bit quieter than the rubber dome it replaced and feels infinitely more satisfying to do work on.

Longer story: I am actually the opposite side of the spectrum, I bought this keyboard BECAUSE it had the media keys. For work I have a ton of VMs, shell sessions, etc open at all times and like to have my music on in the background. I often get calls and need to mute, pause, etc and it's a pain to fumble around to get back to whatever media window I have open at the time so media keys are a must. When I received the keyboard I was really excited and disappointed at the same time. Typing was a dream but I sorely missed the extra function keys.

I initially tried to work around it with autohotkey but there were some weird behaviors it would give when sending the media key functions like sending characters through to the virtual machines I had opened or it just wouldn't work at all. Finally, I contacted Matias support and arranged for an exchange for their older board with the media keys and that just arrived today. It works perfectly and doesn't have any of the strange behaviors that I got with AHK. I absolutely love the way this keyboard feels, having to wait the 10 days for my exchange to arrive while going back to my rubber dome was excruciating.

I may post my thoughts on this board in a separate thread if I ever get the time, but since I love typing on this keyboard I might wind up doing it just to have something to write ;D

Offline NightCabbage

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 23 May 2016, 18:31:13 »
I just joined on here after my first mechanical keyboard purchase which happens to be a Matias Quiet Pro. With regards to your post above, it turns out Matias HAS been listening to the people out there who wanted a more vanilla layout without a Fn key.
Oh, that's cool - I didn't know that :)

I wonder if I could confirm the version before I buy...

Doesn't look like I can use jet.com from Australia.

Yeah, I love autohotkey :D Always keep a script running!

Hmmm another recommendation for the Quiet over the Tactile Clicky version :P

Offline Brannan

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 23 May 2016, 22:42:48 »
The best way for me was to go to meets and just try them there. thats how I picked up my poker 3

Offline NightCabbage

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 23 May 2016, 22:55:52 »
The best way for me was to go to meets and just try them there. thats how I picked up my poker 3
Heh, sadly where I am, I don't think that's going to happen :P

Australia - and furthermore, Tasmania - has a lower population - and thus the amount of keyboard enthusiasts are a lot lower hehe

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 24 May 2016, 12:39:00 »
When you think about it, the Topre is basically a robber dome board right? How could it feel so different from a standard rubber dome board?

As someone who's only just bought a Novatouch (CM Storm with Topre) but spent a week typing on it, a lot: It feels like a rubber dome, but it also feels like a mech board. You could say it's both rubber and mech as opposed to in between, which explains it nicely, I think. Scissors is something between rubber and mech, where the scissor is obviously a very basic representation of a switch, more akin to a stabilizer. Topre, on the other hand, has rubber domes reinforced each with an individual spring contained inside (where spring is what symbolically represents a mech switch in our lovely little subculture) with a real switch on top of them. Hence, basically, there is a rod that pushes a spring, but there's also a rubber dome. Thus, it's both mechanical and rubber-dome. And it feels like two in one, in a way.

I would say the best rubber domes that have ever been produced probably get somewhat close to this — here's the trick: in price also. Those rubbers ain't cheap. But you can still experience a mitigated metal feel that rubber domes just can't have, even if you make them tactile and actuating close to the top and painful to bottom out (which some rubbers are). And durability and consistency is an issue.

I could probably mistake it for a rubber dome in a shop if I didn't know better. If it was introduced as a mech board with no mention of the capacitive/rubber/hybrid thing, I might believe that too.

Another metaphor I can think about is that whereas tactile MX switches or IBM BS switches feel metallic, this is closer to high-quality plastic. The kind of plastic that isn't metal but neither is it particularly cheap or gross in comparison.

… And a whole different keyboard once you remove the spring from the spacebar. Something you can't do so easily with MX browns if they just use a green switch, which means you're stuck with a heavy spacebar.

Bottom line: I want uniform 25g Topre, and I'm probably set.

Offline supamesican

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 24 May 2016, 14:13:28 »
When you think about it, the Topre is basically a robber dome board right? How could it feel so different from a standard rubber dome board?

As someone who's only just bought a Novatouch (CM Storm with Topre) but spent a week typing on it, a lot: It feels like a rubber dome, but it also feels like a mech board. You could say it's both rubber and mech as opposed to in between, which explains it nicely, I think.

There is a reason cm markets the novatouch as "hybrid" switches, its got the quiet and well rubber of a GOOD rubber and the spring of mechanical.

Offline NightCabbage

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 25 May 2016, 19:22:49 »
Hmmm, I'm looking at the 55g Topre Realforce 87U.

A couple of questions...

a) What is the light on the Left Ctrl key for?
b) Is the black text on the black version too hard to read? (I'll be using it in a reasonably lit room)
c) When Num Lock is on, the appropriate keys effectively become numpad keys? ie. hitting "U" will type Numpad 4
d) How do Num Lock and Scroll Lock share the same key?

Offline UnFocused

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 25 May 2016, 19:31:29 »

a) What is the light on the Left Ctrl key for?
b) Is the black text on the black version too hard to read? (I'll be using it in a reasonably lit room)
c) When Num Lock is on, the appropriate keys effectively become numpad keys? ie. hitting "U" will type Numpad 4
d) How do Num Lock and Scroll Lock share the same key?

a) You can swap caps and left ctrl, so that LED is for caps when you've swapped them.

b) It is in a dimly lit room, but I rarely have problems because I touch type. The only times I have problems is when I'm one handed typing and looking for symbols. If you don't think you can deal with the black version, there is a white 55g as well.

c) Yes

d) I've never done it, but I believe shift-num lock enables scroll lock.

Offline NightCabbage

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 26 May 2016, 02:17:57 »
Ah bugger, no uniform 55g 87U in Australia :(

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 26 May 2016, 05:46:13 »
b) Is the black text on the black version too hard to read? (I'll be using it in a reasonably lit room)

Get rid of the problem by accelarating your touch-typing learning curve a bit — you're probably already more than a halfway there, as is the case with people who just simply type a lot. It results in bad technique, such as in my case, but the skill eventually sort of completes its own acqusition on its own, given time. So memorize punctuation keys and you're probably set. I don't think you have to look at alpha keys much or else you probably wouldn't even be talking about Topre


Offline Zoide

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 21 July 2016, 23:16:31 »
Ah bugger, no uniform 55g 87U in Australia :(

What did you end up buying, and how did it turn out?

Offline rowdy

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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline NightCabbage

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Re: Finding it impossible to choose a keyboard...
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 26 July 2016, 00:20:20 »
What did you end up buying, and how did it turn out?

Hey! I ended up buying a Matias Tactile Pro PC. Just got it, so barely had a chance to play yet...

But, so far, from my testing, it seems really good!

Hysteresis is not a problem - yay!
The keys have a nice clicky tactile feel to them.
Also they're not as loud as I was expecting, which is great.

So I'm glad I didn't buy the quiet version, because this one has a more tactile feel, and the noise level seems fine.

I think I made the right choice! :D