If you think browns are noisy, it is likely due more to bottoming-out than the switch itself. You are probably better off doing an o-ring mod to your current board, which will cut down on the bottoming-out noise.
Also, I only have limited experience with Matias Quiet Click, but I think it was only quiet relative to the louder [LOUD!] Matias models. I don't think it's seriously dampened, yes it has dampening but it's not as quiet as modern silent MX switches. It's probably comparable in sound-level with MX Brown, in my experience.
I'm sure Matias is great to type on when it works, don't get me wrong. But I don't associate even their "Quiet Click" with silence.
That's why I recommended the MX silent tactiles and linears. I have reservations about MX switches, but you have to admit that they are now leading in offering silent options.
EDIT: In terms of your original question, Cherry MX Silent Red / Black are likely to be noticeably quieter than both Cherry MX Brown, and Matias Quiet Click.
However, they don't offer the best possible typing experience or silencing. But they will work. So you could just buy a Leopold or something with Silent Red and be done with it, and that is probably the best option for you. It's just lacking in some regards compared with going the custom route.
Thank you for the insightful reply. I have tried researching the custom keyboards route but the options seem too out of budget for me. I cleaned my browns last night and it now feels a bit too light. I think I might go the silent Black option, having not tried linears for an extended period of time. But I definitely want to buy a MX Blue to complement my soon to be growing keyboard set. ;D
I think Matias Quiet Click would require you to get a new set of keycaps as the stems are different. So you can probably rule them out for now.
My guess is that you may find the cherry silent blacks too light, since you find the browns too light, and linears typically feel lighter than tactiles regardless of spring weight. (Silent reds will almost certainly be too light.) But if you're fine with linears, then cherry silent blacks will be fine. Though they're not your best option. Cherry has actually been overtaken in quality and/or value by various other companies in recent years, so the cherry blacks will be neither the quietest nor the nicest feeling nor the cheapest. But they'll be fine, and will be significantly quieter than browns (with or without o rings).
If you are up for trying non-cherries, I would advise against Zilents. Of the dozens of switches I've tried, Zilents are the only ones that I actually despise. They feel as rattly as an old train. This is purely subjective opinion though.
All the other ones hungermechanic mentioned would be worthwhile though. If going for linear, silent Alpacas are the quietest (and smoothest) I've personally tried. Though you may want to try Kailh silent browns, since they're made to be similar in feel to cherry browns.
Thank you for the insightful reply. I have tried researching the custom keyboards route but the options seem too out of budget for me. I cleaned my browns last night and it now feels a bit too light. I think I might go the silent Black option, having not tried linears for an extended period of time. But I definitely want to buy a MX Blue to complement my soon to be growing keyboard set. ;D
Sure. Reds use the same spring as Browns, but feel a little lighter /emptier because of no tactile bump. Silent Reds probably feel a bit heavier than Reds, almost Brown-like, because the Silent Reds will have some shuffling and friction from the dampening. So approx. Brown-level.
MX Blacks are definitely heavier-feeling than Browns, but if you get used to typing on them, they can be a fast switch. Lots of good keyboards with Silent Reds / Blacks like some Varmilos and Leopolds.
Customs are expensive and time-consuming, indeed. Might still want to get a cheap hotswap like a Tester68/KBM68 and see if there are any silent tactiles you like. Then, you can stock up and build them later when you have more money / time. Also, I would consider Silenced Topre, but that is expensive. But it is certainly tactile and office-level quiet.
Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:Show Image(https://imgur.com/ov7w85U.png)
With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.
Thanks. I will look more closely into the other switch options. I wish there were pre-built keyboards with silent tactile switches.
Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:Show Image(https://imgur.com/ov7w85U.png)
With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.
Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:Show Image(https://imgur.com/ov7w85U.png)
With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.
I wish I had seen this earlier. If you're used to MX brown, that's going to be very heavy by comparison and you may find it fatiguing. Many, including myself, find heavy linears to be more fatiguing than relatively similarly-weighted tactiles or clickies as well.
You'll find out real fast whether or not you like typing on linears at all (I don't), but MX blacks may put you off on them entirely without first getting used to heavier switches. If you don't take a liking to them within the first week, unless you want to go on a grand soldering adventure, just return the board and try something else. Situations like this are where switch tester sets are really helpful to sound out where your preferences may even lie.
When people talk about MX browns and Matias in the same post, it makes me think that Matias' quiet linears should be mentioned. If stock MX browns weren't so scratchy, their tactility would be about equivalent in terms of intensity, although Matias quiet linears have a slight tactile event near the bottom of travel, totally uncoordinated with actuation. Some hate this, I think it is wonderful having it so low down. The bump feels totally different though, more of a gradual ramping up of friction with Matias. They're also very smooth out of the box.
"Quiet clicks" are definitely louder than linear silent MX, but not really any different than the typical rubber dome. They're my favorite modern tactiles along with Topre/Niz for overall feel, though I haven't tried any of the fancy boutique MX clones. HungerMechanic is your guy for MX tactiles. He's done one heck of a lot of experimentation with them. I don't like them enough to invest in any more of them.
If you want to try MX blue, skip it and go right to the cheapest board with Outemu blue switches you can find on Amazon. They're better than Cherry in every regard, and a fraction of the cost. Eventually you'll go looking for better clickies than MX as well if you end up liking them, so you may as well keep the total investment low. The same does not apply for other cheap Outemu switches, the rest are all terrible (outside of their more expensive offerings from what I hear). You're better served skipping straight to box pinks (this maybe first since you use relatively light switches currently), jades, or navies and/or Matias clickies, as they're the best mass market clicky switches in production today (as I type this on a Unicomp Mini M).
Thanks. I will look more closely into the other switch options. I wish there were pre-built keyboards with silent tactile switches.
You and me both!
Leopold should ideally come stock with something like 62 G U4 Boba switches, they are silent tactiles, and I know something like this would be do-able since I have a Leopold with Zilents in it. Bobas might not be robot-solderable, though, so no factory Bobas.
There are some factory hotswap keyboards that are great with silent tactiles, and should just come with those switches.
Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:Show Image(https://imgur.com/ov7w85U.png)
With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.
Well, I can't fault you on the board. Ducky makes a pretty solid board, especially compared with the gaming keyboards you typically find in store.
The Horizon colourway is also excellent, a theft of GMK Nautilus. Ducky keycaps are considered among some of the best factory keycaps, nice double-shot PBT. They are especially good with linears IMHO.
I am a bit surprised you went straight for silent blacks, though, as they differ in weight from the switches you are used to.
There's a lot of wisdom in Maledicted's post, and he's entirely right. I can't tell if you will like MX Silent Black or not. It is indeed very heavy. I have read accounts from people who became great typists with MX Black after using Browns and Clears, if you get used to the spring weight it can be a consistent and satisfying switch. Although, like Maledicted, I don't really think it's the ideal switch for most people.
If I may be so bold, you may be repeating some of the mistakes I made early-on. I thought that, since I wasn't satisfied with my first factory mech, an MX Brown Filco Majestouch 2, that I should try a different keyboard.
So I bought a Ducky in MX Red. But I wasn't really satisfied with that either. I tried a Leopold in MX Brown, and it wasn't a significant improvement over the Majestouch.
You probably shouldn't purchase a board just to see what the switches are like. That might have made sense back in 2010. But today, if you are getting into this, you're going to get in somewhat deep. So it's sensible to just buy a switch-tester and/or a cheap hotswap keyboard (that you can sell later), and just consider them expenses for finding the best keyboard.
You use a cheap hotswap to find the right switch - you can put anything in there: MX Blue, MX Red, MX Silent Black, whatever. And much more exotic things. Then, you can get a custom kit or have a factory board [like your Ducky] retrofitted.
I hope that the Ducky board works out and is the best fit for you. It's a great board, usually, and the silent Blacks should be noticeably quieter than MX Brown.
If it doesn't work out, then it may be time to test other switches in hotswap. There's likely a switch out there for you, you just don't know it yet.
Maledicted brought up the Matias silent linears. When researching your question, I saw those pop up on Youtube. I have no experience with them, but they seem interesting. I would prefer those for your use-case over the Matias Quiet Click. The silent linears, by their nature, should be the quietest Matias option, and will still have a little tactility for ergonomic purposes. So it could be ideal. But I've never even seen one, never-mind used one.
If the Ducky board doesn't work out, just return/resell the board. If you imported it, I guess returns could be more difficult. There are services in Canada than can retrofit the board with other switches, but it won't be cheap. But I've done it:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103412.0
In my personal experience with linears, I prefer those that are midweight between MX Red and MX Black. In factory, you can find those in various options from Gateron Yellow to the various Zeal options. Tangerines and Alpacas are often offered in middleweight 67 G category. I personally prefer 63.5 - 65 G linears, which are just a little heavier than MX Browns. Changing springs on switches is easier than you think, if you have access to them.
OK, sure. I don't mean to sound too negative.
You made a great purchase with the Ducky. They are respected and good, and you didn't even overpay [considering the pandemic situation]. When I bought my Ducky in 2016 it was like 100 CAD + tax and shipping, and that was during a sale.
You hinted that you were typing heavily on your MX Browns, so MX Blacks could be the right switch for you. Our hesitation at your purchase was because we know that MX Black is substantially heavier than MX Brown, and most people prefer something intermediate. But it's probably fine.
Your purchase was probably the fastest and most effective thing you could have done to solve your problem.
Just one nitpick - with regard to the hotswap keyboards, I know that they sometimes go on sale on AliExpress. A 68-key hotswap tester was going for about 40 CAD not too long ago. 40 CAD shipped.
Yes, please let us know how it works out. We can advise you from there.
For cheap hotswap, here's an example of what you can get if the timing is right:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003197367339.html?spm=a2g0o.search0304.0.0.44d437a8KyVrPm&algo_pvid=90fa5087-3aa0-4cd4-b3a0-54b8c2495b33&algo_exp_id=90fa5087-3aa0-4cd4-b3a0-54b8c2495b33-0
It was 40 CAD, shipped! I had to pay 37 USD for mine.
If you hang around keyboard Discord or maybe gaming forums, people will bring up cheap hotswap keyboard deals from time-to-time. On Black Friday, GMMK sometimes sells barebones keyboards for cheap. I remember I got the GMMK TKL for $35 + shipping in 2018, which I use for switch testing.
I tried watching my typing habits closely and noticed that there were way too many accidental presses, something that I had not cared to pay attention to earlier. I could definitely do with heavier switches. I did buy a switch tester, which came in just the day before me pulling the trigger. I felt the Blacks felt alright, but it is very hard to know unless you use a keyboard for a lengthier time. As for Mathais, the quiet click was the only option as they don't sell keyboards in anything other than that. There's the V80 but I have heard lots of QC issues and it's hard to find them in stock with the Mathais switches.
The Outemu blue switch idea sounds like a good one. They are fairly cheap on Amazon. I may buy one to try it out.
I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:
I could definitely do with heavier switches.Otherwise, if you did like the MX Brown then I would have recommended that you'd try out Gateron Silent Brown switches on a switch tester or a hotswap keyboard.
I recently replaced all of the switches in a Das Keyboard 4 with Gateron silent browns. They're definitely quiet, even more so than Cherry silent blacks, but they are very inconsistent, and extremely light, almost lighter feeling than Cherry browns. The travel is great, though. They have more of a full travel feel than Cherry silent blacks. Out of the batch of 110 Gateron silent browns I got, about a half dozen had virtually no silencing at all, and some others were bad enough when pressed off center that I had to put them on keys that I rarely, if ever, use. One of the switches was missing the lower rubber bumpers entirely. Some had bumpers that were thinner than others, so they definitely need to work on their quality control. Cherry silents, in comparison, are extremely uniform, but not as satisfying to type on. If the OP wants a heavier switch than MX brown, Gateron silent browns probably aren't the best, but maybe they could be with a spring swap. They seemed pretty inexpensive for a silent switch.
Otherwise, if you did like the MX Brown then I would have recommended that you'd try out Gateron Silent Brown switches on a switch tester or a hotswap keyboard.
The switches have silencing like Cherry MX Silent Black, and have full key travel. They also do not cost nearly as much as Zilents.
Although I've heard that they could be a bit inconsistent in their feel and sound profile. (I've only tested them on a switch tester myself and I'm not as sensitive as others are)
I recently replaced all of the switches in a Das Keyboard 4 with Gateron silent browns. They're definitely quiet, even more so than Cherry silent blacks, but they are very inconsistent, and extremely light, almost lighter feeling than Cherry browns. The travel is great, though. They have more of a full travel feel than Cherry silent blacks. Out of the batch of 110 Gateron silent browns I got, about a half dozen had virtually no silencing at all, and some others were bad enough when pressed off center that I had to put them on keys that I rarely, if ever, use. One of the switches was missing the lower rubber bumpers entirely. Some had bumpers that were thinner than others, so they definitely need to work on their quality control. Cherry silents, in comparison, are extremely uniform, but not as satisfying to type on. If the OP wants a heavier switch than MX brown, Gateron silent browns probably aren't the best, but maybe they could be with a spring swap. They seemed pretty inexpensive for a silent switch.
Hi Volny,
What lighter silent tactile are you considering? I agree that U4 is too stiff for smooth typing.
The Silent Sky stem is better for smooth typing, you just need the right spring weight and housing. Aliaz will work, too, but it actuates low and is barely tactile. The OP might enjoy BOX Silent Brown, as it is a little stiffer than MX Brown.
After taking your advice from a different thread, I've been trying outemu silent sky (silent forest) stems in different housings, and doing blind tests. I've also done the same with Durock shrimp stems. I tried housings from U4Ts, Dragonfruits, Polias, Durock pianos, Everglide bamboos, TTC bluish whites, and Huano Bananas.
The Outemu skies felt best in Bamboo and Banana housings.
It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.
It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.
Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.
I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.
Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.
I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.
It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.
Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.
I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.
You should! My WPM on Browns was 65-70(with lots of errors). After just a few days of using Cherry MX Blacks Silents, I'm already up to 80-85(usually with 0 errors). Extremely happy with the decision to get this keyboard and thanks to HungerMechanic and others in this thread who helped me make the decision. Typing fatigue has been 0 thus far.
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.
Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.
I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.
>I wonder what you've been doing to make your fingers so strong if not having already been using relatively stiff switches.
I used to powerlift so it's most likely that :D
Just wasn't aware of needing a stiffer keyboard before this
>I wonder what you've been doing to make your fingers so strong if not having already been using relatively stiff switches.
I used to powerlift so it's most likely that :D
Just wasn't aware of needing a stiffer keyboard before this
Well, that's great. I always figure you're better off with stiffer switches than lighter, if you're comfortable with them. The problem is just that most people are used to relatively light MX switches, and Cherry doesn't really offer anything intermediate. The exception being MX blue, since those have enough of a tactile event that you're not really going to accidentally press them nearly as much as MX red or brown.
If MX black is no problem at all for you, when you go to try clickies, you may be ok jumping straight to box navies. Box jades for sure, which most people seem to prefer in terms of sound. Both are VERY loud and VERY tactile clickies though. If you want to tone down the tactility but not the weight, try box pale blue. Given your preference in linear, I wouldn't take you for a box white or box pink guy, but they're the lighter of their clickies. Whites are even less tactile than MX blue, box pink are most similar to a lighter jade, both in terms of sound and feel. Jades and pinks are relatively low-pitched, most of the rest are high-pitched, like MX blue. Matias switches are stiffer than MX blue as well, and I can't imagine you would have any trouble at all acclimating to them.
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.
Thanks for the details. I will try a Silent Sky Banana with a stock spring, once I get more. The 55 G 15mm Spirit is a bit weak for these, I think. The tactility of the Banana housings is greater than the TTC Gold Brown V2s that I use for Silent Skies.