Author Topic: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click  (Read 2136 times)

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Offline arhue

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Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« on: Sun, 10 October 2021, 16:24:14 »
Hello everyone,

New member here. I wanted to ask which of these two options should I buy: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black or Matais Quiet Click. There is little information on Google comparing both of these options.

I am currently using a Cherry MX Brown keyboard(KBC Poker II) that I bought a while back and super happy with it. However, I often have to work late at night and these switches can be super noisy, which is not ideal when you have a roommate.

I want something that is as quiet as possible. Preference is for tactile/clicky switches, but can sacrifice the feedback if the Cherry MX Silents are that much less noisy.

Welcome any/all thoughts about either/both of these switch types.

Thank you.

Offline timw4mail

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 08:49:36 »
If you think browns are noisy, it is likely due more to bottoming-out than the switch itself. You are probably better off doing an o-ring mod to your current board, which will cut down on the bottoming-out noise.
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 09:57:47 »
Silent Red/Black will indeed be quieter than MX Brown because of the dampening.

However, even Cherry MX Silent Red/Black is not as quiet as it could be, and they are obviously not tactile switches as well.

This is where custom keyboards come in handy to someone in your position. With a custom build, you could use a "silent tactile." It would be like MX Brown, but much quieter. A switch like that is the OUTEMU Silent Sky stem inside a Cherry or light tactile housing.

But instead of modifying switches, you can buy silent tactiles, including U4 Boba and Zilent V2. Maybe even Zilent V1 soon. This may sound like gibberish to you at the moment, but if you look up these switches on Youtube, you will see [and hear] typing tests demonstrating their relative quiet. [Boba and Zilents are much more tactile than MX Brown, though].

There are also silent linears that are super-quiet, especially Bobagum, and there's also Silent Alpaca and the whole lineup of Zeal silent linears.

Anyway, put these into a relatively quiet hotswap keyboard like a modded Archon AK87/89 or maybe a modded MK870 and you're good to go. I'm going to see if the smaller 68-key Aurora can be silent-modified. You could buy a cheap kit like a Tofu, and dampen it. The options are there.

I just point this out because I wouldn't want to have to choose between MX Brown [too loud], and Cherry MX Silent Red/Black. There are silent tactiles available, and better silent linears than Cherry's.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 10:00:12 »
Also, I only have limited experience with Matias Quiet Click, but I think it was only quiet relative to the louder [LOUD!] Matias models. I don't think it's seriously dampened, yes it has dampening but it's not as quiet as modern silent MX switches. It's probably comparable in sound-level with MX Brown, in my experience.

I'm sure Matias is great to type on when it works, don't get me wrong. But I don't associate even their "Quiet Click" with silence.

That's why I recommended the MX silent tactiles and linears. I have reservations about MX switches, but you have to admit that they are now leading in offering silent options.

EDIT: In terms of your original question, Cherry MX Silent Red / Black are likely to be noticeably quieter than both Cherry MX Brown, and Matias Quiet Click.

However, they don't offer the best possible typing experience or silencing. But they will work. So you could just buy a Leopold or something with Silent Red and be done with it, and that is probably the best option for you. It's just lacking in some regards compared with going the custom route.
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 October 2021, 10:11:04 by HungerMechanic »

Offline arhue

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 13:48:05 »
If you think browns are noisy, it is likely due more to bottoming-out than the switch itself. You are probably better off doing an o-ring mod to your current board, which will cut down on the bottoming-out noise.

I have tried orings. I don't like them. I would much rather have 2 keyboards, than have orings on my daily driver.

Offline arhue

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 14:00:07 »
Also, I only have limited experience with Matias Quiet Click, but I think it was only quiet relative to the louder [LOUD!] Matias models. I don't think it's seriously dampened, yes it has dampening but it's not as quiet as modern silent MX switches. It's probably comparable in sound-level with MX Brown, in my experience.

I'm sure Matias is great to type on when it works, don't get me wrong. But I don't associate even their "Quiet Click" with silence.

That's why I recommended the MX silent tactiles and linears. I have reservations about MX switches, but you have to admit that they are now leading in offering silent options.

EDIT: In terms of your original question, Cherry MX Silent Red / Black are likely to be noticeably quieter than both Cherry MX Brown, and Matias Quiet Click.

However, they don't offer the best possible typing experience or silencing. But they will work. So you could just buy a Leopold or something with Silent Red and be done with it, and that is probably the best option for you. It's just lacking in some regards compared with going the custom route.

Thank you for the insightful reply. I have tried researching the custom keyboards route but the options seem too out of budget for me. I cleaned my browns last night and it now feels a bit too light. I think I might go the silent Black option, having not tried linears for an extended period of time. But I definitely want to buy a MX Blue to complement my soon to be growing keyboard set.   ;D

Offline Volny

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 18:46:56 »
I think Matias Quiet Click would require you to get a new set of keycaps as the stems are different. So you can probably rule them out for now.

My guess is that you may find the cherry silent blacks too light, since you find the browns too light, and linears typically feel lighter than tactiles regardless of spring weight. (Silent reds will almost certainly be too light.) But if you're fine with linears, then cherry silent blacks will be fine. Though they're not your best option. Cherry has actually been overtaken in quality and/or value by various other companies in recent years, so the cherry blacks will be neither the quietest nor the nicest feeling nor the cheapest. But they'll be fine, and will be significantly quieter than browns (with or without o rings).

If you are up for trying non-cherries, I would advise against Zilents. Of the dozens of switches I've tried, Zilents are the only ones that I actually despise. They feel as rattly as an old train. This is purely subjective opinion though.

All the other ones hungermechanic mentioned would be worthwhile though. If going for linear, silent Alpacas are the quietest (and smoothest) I've personally tried. Though you may want to try Kailh silent browns, since they're made to be similar in feel to cherry browns.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 21:03:19 »

Thank you for the insightful reply. I have tried researching the custom keyboards route but the options seem too out of budget for me. I cleaned my browns last night and it now feels a bit too light. I think I might go the silent Black option, having not tried linears for an extended period of time. But I definitely want to buy a MX Blue to complement my soon to be growing keyboard set.   ;D

Sure. Reds use the same spring as Browns, but feel a little lighter /emptier because of no tactile bump. Silent Reds probably feel a bit heavier than Reds, almost Brown-like, because the Silent Reds will have some shuffling and friction from the dampening. So approx. Brown-level.

MX Blacks are definitely heavier-feeling than Browns, but if you get used to typing on them, they can be a fast switch. Lots of good keyboards with Silent Reds / Blacks like some Varmilos and Leopolds.

Customs are expensive and time-consuming, indeed. Might still want to get a cheap hotswap like a Tester68/KBM68 and see if there are any silent tactiles you like. Then, you can stock up and build them later when you have more money / time. Also, I would consider Silenced Topre, but that is expensive. But it is certainly tactile and office-level quiet.

Offline arhue

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 12 October 2021, 19:16:03 »
I think Matias Quiet Click would require you to get a new set of keycaps as the stems are different. So you can probably rule them out for now.

My guess is that you may find the cherry silent blacks too light, since you find the browns too light, and linears typically feel lighter than tactiles regardless of spring weight. (Silent reds will almost certainly be too light.) But if you're fine with linears, then cherry silent blacks will be fine. Though they're not your best option. Cherry has actually been overtaken in quality and/or value by various other companies in recent years, so the cherry blacks will be neither the quietest nor the nicest feeling nor the cheapest. But they'll be fine, and will be significantly quieter than browns (with or without o rings).

If you are up for trying non-cherries, I would advise against Zilents. Of the dozens of switches I've tried, Zilents are the only ones that I actually despise. They feel as rattly as an old train. This is purely subjective opinion though.

All the other ones hungermechanic mentioned would be worthwhile though. If going for linear, silent Alpacas are the quietest (and smoothest) I've personally tried. Though you may want to try Kailh silent browns, since they're made to be similar in feel to cherry browns.

Thanks. I will look more closely into the other switch options. I wish there were pre-built keyboards with silent tactile switches.

Offline arhue

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 12 October 2021, 19:19:30 »

Thank you for the insightful reply. I have tried researching the custom keyboards route but the options seem too out of budget for me. I cleaned my browns last night and it now feels a bit too light. I think I might go the silent Black option, having not tried linears for an extended period of time. But I definitely want to buy a MX Blue to complement my soon to be growing keyboard set.   ;D

Sure. Reds use the same spring as Browns, but feel a little lighter /emptier because of no tactile bump. Silent Reds probably feel a bit heavier than Reds, almost Brown-like, because the Silent Reds will have some shuffling and friction from the dampening. So approx. Brown-level.

MX Blacks are definitely heavier-feeling than Browns, but if you get used to typing on them, they can be a fast switch. Lots of good keyboards with Silent Reds / Blacks like some Varmilos and Leopolds.

Customs are expensive and time-consuming, indeed. Might still want to get a cheap hotswap like a Tester68/KBM68 and see if there are any silent tactiles you like. Then, you can stock up and build them later when you have more money / time. Also, I would consider Silenced Topre, but that is expensive. But it is certainly tactile and office-level quiet.

Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:



With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 08:39:33 »
Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:

Show Image


With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.

I wish I had seen this earlier. If you're used to MX brown, that's going to be very heavy by comparison and you may find it fatiguing. Many, including myself, find heavy linears to be more fatiguing than relatively similarly-weighted tactiles or clickies as well.

You'll find out real fast whether or not you like typing on linears at all (I don't), but MX blacks may put you off on them entirely without first getting used to heavier switches. If you don't take a liking to them within the first week, unless you want to go on a grand soldering adventure, just return the board and try something else. Situations like this are where switch tester sets are really helpful to sound out where your preferences may even lie.

When people talk about MX browns and Matias in the same post, it makes me think that Matias' quiet linears should be mentioned. If stock MX browns weren't so scratchy, their tactility would be about equivalent in terms of intensity, although Matias quiet linears have a slight tactile event near the bottom of travel, totally uncoordinated with actuation. Some hate this, I think it is wonderful having it so low down. The bump feels totally different though, more of a gradual ramping up of friction with Matias. They're also very smooth out of the box.

"Quiet clicks" are definitely louder than linear silent MX, but not really any different than the typical rubber dome. They're my favorite modern tactiles along with Topre/Niz for overall feel, though I haven't tried any of the fancy boutique MX clones. HungerMechanic is your guy for MX tactiles. He's done one heck of a lot of experimentation with them. I don't like them enough to invest in any more of them.

If you want to try MX blue, skip it and go right to the cheapest board with Outemu blue switches you can find on Amazon. They're better than Cherry in every regard, and a fraction of the cost. Eventually you'll go looking for better clickies than MX as well if you end up liking them, so you may as well keep the total investment low. The same does not apply for other cheap Outemu switches, the rest are all terrible (outside of their more expensive offerings from what I hear). You're better served skipping straight to box pinks (this maybe first since you use relatively light switches currently), jades, or navies and/or Matias clickies, as they're the best mass market clicky switches in production today (as I type this on a Unicomp Mini M).
« Last Edit: Wed, 13 October 2021, 12:11:10 by Maledicted »

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 11:24:41 »

Thanks. I will look more closely into the other switch options. I wish there were pre-built keyboards with silent tactile switches.

You and me both!

Leopold should ideally come stock with something like 62 G U4 Boba switches, they are silent tactiles, and I know something like this would be do-able since I have a Leopold with Zilents in it. Bobas might not be robot-solderable, though, so no factory Bobas.

There are some factory hotswap keyboards that are great with silent tactiles, and should just come with those switches.


Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:

Show Image


With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.

Well, I can't fault you on the board. Ducky makes a pretty solid board, especially compared with the gaming keyboards you typically find in store.

The Horizon colourway is also excellent, a theft of GMK Nautilus. Ducky keycaps are considered among some of the best factory keycaps, nice double-shot PBT. They are especially good with linears IMHO.

I am a bit surprised you went straight for silent blacks, though, as they differ in weight from the switches you are used to.



There's a lot of wisdom in Maledicted's post, and he's entirely right. I can't tell if you will like MX Silent Black or not. It is indeed very heavy. I have read accounts from people who became great typists with MX Black after using Browns and Clears, if you get used to the spring weight it can be a consistent and satisfying switch. Although, like Maledicted, I don't really think it's the ideal switch for most people.

If I may be so bold, you may be repeating some of the mistakes I made early-on. I thought that, since I wasn't satisfied with my first factory mech, an MX Brown Filco Majestouch 2, that I should try a different keyboard.

So I bought a Ducky in MX Red. But I wasn't really satisfied with that either. I tried a Leopold in MX Brown, and it wasn't a significant improvement over the Majestouch.

You probably shouldn't purchase a board just to see what the switches are like. That might have made sense back in 2010. But today, if you are getting into this, you're going to get in somewhat deep. So it's sensible to just buy a switch-tester and/or a cheap hotswap keyboard (that you can sell later), and just consider them expenses for finding the best keyboard.

You use a cheap hotswap to find the right switch - you can put anything in there: MX Blue, MX Red, MX Silent Black, whatever. And much more exotic things. Then, you can get a custom kit or have a factory board [like your Ducky] retrofitted.

I hope that the Ducky board works out and is the best fit for you. It's a great board, usually, and the silent Blacks should be noticeably quieter than MX Brown.

If it doesn't work out, then it may be time to test other switches in hotswap. There's likely a switch out there for you, you just don't know it yet.

Maledicted brought up the Matias silent linears. When researching your question, I saw those pop up on Youtube. I have no experience with them, but they seem interesting. I would prefer those for your use-case over the Matias Quiet Click. The silent linears, by their nature, should be the quietest Matias option, and will still have a little tactility for ergonomic purposes. So it could be ideal. But I've never even seen one, never-mind used one.

If the Ducky board doesn't work out, just return/resell the board. If you imported it, I guess returns could be more difficult. There are services in Canada than can retrofit the board with other switches, but it won't be cheap. But I've done it:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103412.0

In my personal experience with linears, I prefer those that are midweight between MX Red and MX Black. In factory, you can find those in various options from Gateron Yellow to the various Zeal options. Tangerines and Alpacas are often offered in middleweight 67 G category. I personally prefer 63.5 - 65 G linears, which are just a little heavier than MX Browns. Changing springs on switches is easier than you think, if you have access to them.




Offline arhue

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 14:10:19 »
Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:

Show Image


With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.

I wish I had seen this earlier. If you're used to MX brown, that's going to be very heavy by comparison and you may find it fatiguing. Many, including myself, find heavy linears to be more fatiguing than relatively similarly-weighted tactiles or clickies as well.

You'll find out real fast whether or not you like typing on linears at all (I don't), but MX blacks may put you off on them entirely without first getting used to heavier switches. If you don't take a liking to them within the first week, unless you want to go on a grand soldering adventure, just return the board and try something else. Situations like this are where switch tester sets are really helpful to sound out where your preferences may even lie.

When people talk about MX browns and Matias in the same post, it makes me think that Matias' quiet linears should be mentioned. If stock MX browns weren't so scratchy, their tactility would be about equivalent in terms of intensity, although Matias quiet linears have a slight tactile event near the bottom of travel, totally uncoordinated with actuation. Some hate this, I think it is wonderful having it so low down. The bump feels totally different though, more of a gradual ramping up of friction with Matias. They're also very smooth out of the box.

"Quiet clicks" are definitely louder than linear silent MX, but not really any different than the typical rubber dome. They're my favorite modern tactiles along with Topre/Niz for overall feel, though I haven't tried any of the fancy boutique MX clones. HungerMechanic is your guy for MX tactiles. He's done one heck of a lot of experimentation with them. I don't like them enough to invest in any more of them.

If you want to try MX blue, skip it and go right to the cheapest board with Outemu blue switches you can find on Amazon. They're better than Cherry in every regard, and a fraction of the cost. Eventually you'll go looking for better clickies than MX as well if you end up liking them, so you may as well keep the total investment low. The same does not apply for other cheap Outemu switches, the rest are all terrible (outside of their more expensive offerings from what I hear). You're better served skipping straight to box pinks (this maybe first since you use relatively light switches currently), jades, or navies and/or Matias clickies, as they're the best mass market clicky switches in production today (as I type this on a Unicomp Mini M).

I tried watching my typing habits closely and noticed that  there were way too many accidental presses, something that I had not cared to pay attention to earlier. I could definitely do with heavier switches. I did buy a switch tester, which came in just the day before me pulling the trigger. I felt the Blacks felt alright, but it is very hard to know unless you use a keyboard for a lengthier time. As for Mathais, the quiet click was the only option as they don't sell keyboards in anything other than that. There's the V80 but I have heard lots of QC issues and it's hard to find them in stock with the Mathais switches.

The Outemu blue switch idea sounds like a good one. They are fairly cheap on Amazon. I may buy one to try it out.

Offline arhue

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  • Posts: 14
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 14:18:54 »

Thanks. I will look more closely into the other switch options. I wish there were pre-built keyboards with silent tactile switches.

You and me both!

Leopold should ideally come stock with something like 62 G U4 Boba switches, they are silent tactiles, and I know something like this would be do-able since I have a Leopold with Zilents in it. Bobas might not be robot-solderable, though, so no factory Bobas.

There are some factory hotswap keyboards that are great with silent tactiles, and should just come with those switches.


Thank you for your help. I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:

Show Image


With taxes and shipping to Canada it was 138 USD or 179 CAD. I think I overpaid but hopefully it should be worth it.

Well, I can't fault you on the board. Ducky makes a pretty solid board, especially compared with the gaming keyboards you typically find in store.

The Horizon colourway is also excellent, a theft of GMK Nautilus. Ducky keycaps are considered among some of the best factory keycaps, nice double-shot PBT. They are especially good with linears IMHO.

I am a bit surprised you went straight for silent blacks, though, as they differ in weight from the switches you are used to.



There's a lot of wisdom in Maledicted's post, and he's entirely right. I can't tell if you will like MX Silent Black or not. It is indeed very heavy. I have read accounts from people who became great typists with MX Black after using Browns and Clears, if you get used to the spring weight it can be a consistent and satisfying switch. Although, like Maledicted, I don't really think it's the ideal switch for most people.

If I may be so bold, you may be repeating some of the mistakes I made early-on. I thought that, since I wasn't satisfied with my first factory mech, an MX Brown Filco Majestouch 2, that I should try a different keyboard.

So I bought a Ducky in MX Red. But I wasn't really satisfied with that either. I tried a Leopold in MX Brown, and it wasn't a significant improvement over the Majestouch.

You probably shouldn't purchase a board just to see what the switches are like. That might have made sense back in 2010. But today, if you are getting into this, you're going to get in somewhat deep. So it's sensible to just buy a switch-tester and/or a cheap hotswap keyboard (that you can sell later), and just consider them expenses for finding the best keyboard.

You use a cheap hotswap to find the right switch - you can put anything in there: MX Blue, MX Red, MX Silent Black, whatever. And much more exotic things. Then, you can get a custom kit or have a factory board [like your Ducky] retrofitted.

I hope that the Ducky board works out and is the best fit for you. It's a great board, usually, and the silent Blacks should be noticeably quieter than MX Brown.

If it doesn't work out, then it may be time to test other switches in hotswap. There's likely a switch out there for you, you just don't know it yet.

Maledicted brought up the Matias silent linears. When researching your question, I saw those pop up on Youtube. I have no experience with them, but they seem interesting. I would prefer those for your use-case over the Matias Quiet Click. The silent linears, by their nature, should be the quietest Matias option, and will still have a little tactility for ergonomic purposes. So it could be ideal. But I've never even seen one, never-mind used one.

If the Ducky board doesn't work out, just return/resell the board. If you imported it, I guess returns could be more difficult. There are services in Canada than can retrofit the board with other switches, but it won't be cheap. But I've done it:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103412.0

In my personal experience with linears, I prefer those that are midweight between MX Red and MX Black. In factory, you can find those in various options from Gateron Yellow to the various Zeal options. Tangerines and Alpacas are often offered in middleweight 67 G category. I personally prefer 63.5 - 65 G linears, which are just a little heavier than MX Browns. Changing springs on switches is easier than you think, if you have access to them.

With the hotswap keyboards, it's an expensive proposition after considering shipping, taxes, import duty for each component. I can buy two keyboards for the same price. I did buy a switch tester and Blacks felt alright. After cleaning out my Browns(after several years) and watching my typing closely, I noticed I made several accidental presses in every sentence due to the lightness of the switches so I could definitely do with a heavier keyboard. With Mathais, the availability with keyboards is an issue, unless going for the custom route.

Reselling is definitely an option if I don't like the keyboard. They cost way more here than what I paid for them.
« Last Edit: Wed, 13 October 2021, 14:22:00 by arhue »

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 14:52:18 »
OK, sure. I don't mean to sound too negative.

You made a great purchase with the Ducky. They are respected and good, and you didn't even overpay [considering the pandemic situation]. When I bought my Ducky in 2016 it was like 100 CAD + tax and shipping, and that was during a sale.

You hinted that you were typing heavily on your MX Browns, so MX Blacks could be the right switch for you. Our hesitation at your purchase was because we know that MX Black is substantially heavier than MX Brown, and most people prefer something intermediate. But it's probably fine.

Your purchase was probably the fastest and most effective thing you could have done to solve your problem.

Just one nitpick - with regard to the hotswap keyboards, I know that they sometimes go on sale on AliExpress. A 68-key hotswap tester was going for about 40 CAD not too long ago. 40 CAD shipped.

Offline arhue

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 16:47:54 »
OK, sure. I don't mean to sound too negative.

You made a great purchase with the Ducky. They are respected and good, and you didn't even overpay [considering the pandemic situation]. When I bought my Ducky in 2016 it was like 100 CAD + tax and shipping, and that was during a sale.

You hinted that you were typing heavily on your MX Browns, so MX Blacks could be the right switch for you. Our hesitation at your purchase was because we know that MX Black is substantially heavier than MX Brown, and most people prefer something intermediate. But it's probably fine.

Your purchase was probably the fastest and most effective thing you could have done to solve your problem.

Just one nitpick - with regard to the hotswap keyboards, I know that they sometimes go on sale on AliExpress. A 68-key hotswap tester was going for about 40 CAD not too long ago. 40 CAD shipped.

You weren't negative. You and everyone else has been incredibly helpful. I think I'll pick a hotswap tester just in any case if I see it for a good price. I'll lurk on this forum more to find any deals on that front. The keyboard is a pre-order and should ship by 21st of this month. I'll report back on the purchase once it gets here.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 17:47:38 »
Yes, please let us know how it works out. We can advise you from there.

For cheap hotswap, here's an example of what you can get if the timing is right:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003197367339.html?spm=a2g0o.search0304.0.0.44d437a8KyVrPm&algo_pvid=90fa5087-3aa0-4cd4-b3a0-54b8c2495b33&algo_exp_id=90fa5087-3aa0-4cd4-b3a0-54b8c2495b33-0

It was 40 CAD, shipped! I had to pay 37 USD for mine.

If you hang around keyboard Discord or maybe gaming forums, people will bring up cheap hotswap keyboard deals from time-to-time. On Black Friday, GMMK sometimes sells barebones keyboards for cheap. I remember I got the GMMK TKL for $35 + shipping in 2018, which I use for switch testing.


Offline arhue

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 14
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 13 October 2021, 18:01:07 »
Yes, please let us know how it works out. We can advise you from there.

For cheap hotswap, here's an example of what you can get if the timing is right:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003197367339.html?spm=a2g0o.search0304.0.0.44d437a8KyVrPm&algo_pvid=90fa5087-3aa0-4cd4-b3a0-54b8c2495b33&algo_exp_id=90fa5087-3aa0-4cd4-b3a0-54b8c2495b33-0

It was 40 CAD, shipped! I had to pay 37 USD for mine.

If you hang around keyboard Discord or maybe gaming forums, people will bring up cheap hotswap keyboard deals from time-to-time. On Black Friday, GMMK sometimes sells barebones keyboards for cheap. I remember I got the GMMK TKL for $35 + shipping in 2018, which I use for switch testing.

Thanks! I'll keep an eye out. :)

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 14 October 2021, 09:51:32 »
I tried watching my typing habits closely and noticed that  there were way too many accidental presses, something that I had not cared to pay attention to earlier. I could definitely do with heavier switches. I did buy a switch tester, which came in just the day before me pulling the trigger. I felt the Blacks felt alright, but it is very hard to know unless you use a keyboard for a lengthier time. As for Mathais, the quiet click was the only option as they don't sell keyboards in anything other than that. There's the V80 but I have heard lots of QC issues and it's hard to find them in stock with the Mathais switches.

The Outemu blue switch idea sounds like a good one. They are fairly cheap on Amazon. I may buy one to try it out.

I have always had more mistakes on really light switches as well, particularly linears. I haven't typed a whole lot with MX brown, but I don't think they would effectively be any different from MX red for me. They're both too light to even rest your fingers on without accidental actuation. I also make a lot of mistakes (without concerted effort) on really stiff switches if there isn't a good balance between the overall stiffness of the switch and the tactility. With this Mini M, I make more mistakes on it than I do with box navies. With an M (at least in the week or so I have been trying to put in effort to give it a fair shake) or MX black board, I always seem to consciously be trying to make sure that I use enough force to actually actuate the mechanism. The tactile event of box navies is a lot higher in the overall travel than this Mini M, and it puts up sufficient resistance before it breaks so I fly right past the actuation point every time.

I think this means more effort being put into making sure every intended press registers without an equivalent increase in tactility.

It has been some time since I have earnestly tried to type on MX black, and I have acclimatized to stiffer springs, but not having that feedback on a stiffer switch definitely seems to be an issue for me. Depressing a single switch nearly vertically is very different from setting it on a desk in front of you and depressing it as you might when normally typing, and with a linear, you don't know whether or not any actuation is taking place without it in a board.

I think I have found boards with Kailh hot swap sockets on Amazon for very reasonable prices as well, but I'm not sure if that's as convenient in Canada as the U.S. They're very rare in the sea of cheap Outemu hot swap boards, which have very limited compatibility.

Matias sells boards with all 3 switch types, they just don't offer them in every type of board. Their Ergo Pro comes only with the "quiet click" and "quiet linear" switches (in the low force version). Unless anything has changed recently, most other options are available in either "quiet click" or clicky versions. I think they still only sell the clickies in the Mac keyboards for some reason, they told me that it was a lack of demand for clickies from Windows users. The beauty here is that these are very similar to Alps switches. The housings can be opened without desoldering the switch, so you can convert any board to any switch type, or make frankenswitches like dampened clickies, undampened linears or undampened tactiles by swapping leaves and sliders around. I have 3 V80s, one with each switch type. The last time I checked, the linears were still in stock on the KBParadise website. I do believe that I had some limited chatter issues with the one V80 I purchased used ("quiet click"), which was obviously from a much older batch. I haven't put a huge amount of wear on any of them yet though ... since I have so many boards to rotate through and love doing so.

Their switches, which are made by Gaote/Outemu are really, really cheap. If I ever have a mechanical failure, I plan on swapping them. I know that's not an ideal solution for many people. I have collected over a dozen Matias boards though, old and new. Whatever I could find cheap. Only one has exhibited persistent chatter issues, and it is an old fullsize board with the older Forward-manufactured switches. This includes a few I have left in my cars banging around on the floor to use with my Android stereos, one of which a sunroof leaked on.

I have purchased one parts board from Matias very cheaply too. I believe it was only something like $15 before shipping, which was reasonable even from Canada to the U.S. It worked perfectly in my testing, it was just missing some caps and stabilizers.

Everyone buys boards full of switches they end up not liking, even with the most careful planning (without being able to try them extensively in a board first). I think this is pretty common with MX black, but I don't know if a whole lot of people have just used it for a month or two straight to get used to it when that happens either.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 14 October 2021, 12:09:19 »
MX Silent Black is one solution to the OP's problem. We'll see how it works out.l

Another solution is definitely heavy silent tactiles. Specifically U4 Boba and Zilents, as well as the Silenced T1 variants. Or Aliaz with a 65-72 G spring. And others.

Silent Linears - there are intermediate weight silent linears available in Canada. For example, the Durock Daybreak 67 G is basically a 67 G silent Alpaca, you can imagine it as a factory silent between MX Red and MX Black in weight:

https://www.amazon.ca/Switches-Dolphin-Keyswitch-Mechanical-Keyboards/dp/B08HZ5657V?th=1

OP could really benefit from trying silent heavy tactiles at some point down the road, but it doesn't have to happen right now. What I like about the silent heavy tactiles is that the spring weight is not as heavy as MX Black, but the tactility is much stronger than MX Brown. And the tactility is at the top of the keypress. I highly doubt there will be as many accidental keypresses with 67 G Zilent V2 or 68 G U4 Boba, for example. They are near impossible for me to accidentally actuate.

WRT to the earlier posts about clickies, Maledicted is right that OUTEMU Blue keyboards are the best cheap blues. Forget MX Blue. OUTEMU are louder and more satisfying. The reason I bring this up is that the extraordinarily cheap Redragon are available in Canada. They should be around $40-45 CAD. If you want to try blues, this is the way. Cheap enough to just do it for fun.

The premium best clickies are BOX Jade and BOX Navy. Unlike OUTEMU, you typically need to go the custom route for these. It's worth it. And they are the easiest customs to build, since you can put them in anything and not customize the switches, and you'll still get decent results.

Anyway, these are all things the OP can think about over time.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 14 October 2021, 13:47:22 »
I ended up buying this with MX Silent Blacks:
I could definitely do with heavier switches.
Otherwise, if you did like the MX Brown then I would have recommended that you'd try out Gateron Silent Brown switches on a switch tester or a hotswap keyboard.

The switches have silencing like Cherry MX Silent Black, and have full key travel. They also do not cost nearly as much as Zilents.
Although I've heard that they could be a bit inconsistent in their feel and sound profile. (I've only tested them on a switch tester myself and I'm not as sensitive as others are)
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 14 October 2021, 14:14:36 »
I would recommend Silent Brown as an option, but OP wants a heavier switch, and yes, they really are a bit inconsistent.

I actually have something like 110 Gateron Silent Brown, lubed and filmed by someone else. However, I was not impressed. They are not as quiet as Aliaz or U4 Boba, definitely not as quiet as silent linears.

The switch feel isn't great, either. Kind of remind me of a plastic plunger, as does the sound. I would be happy to sell them to someone else, but not for a huge price. More like 40 USD or something.

Aliaz costs more, but is more enjoyable once you replace the spring.

Speaking of switch tester / hotswap keyboard, incredibly, there are still Tester68 in stock:


https://www.keebmonkey.com/collections/recommendations/products/keebmonkey-x-ambit-kb68-budget-keyboard-kit

Probably won't be cheaper ever again in North America. It costs ~37 USD to get one shipped to Canada. Works fine:





Offline Volny

  • Posts: 233
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 14 October 2021, 18:59:41 »
Earlier this year I also suffered from light linears (cherry speed silvers) that were causing me way too many typos. Like you, I realised that I was making mistakes virtually every sentence. When I changed them to strong tactiles my WPM instantly went up 20 points, due to fewer typos.

Though in the process I discovered that keycap profile is also a big factor in typos. OEM profile (the most common profile) has sharp protruding corners which are especially easy to nudge by accident. I've since switched to DSA, which have sloped corners that are much harder to actuate by accident.

Anyway, I was so exasperated by the typofest of cherry speed silvers that I overcompensated with my replacements by selecting quite heavy switches (glorious pandas on alphas, even firmer SP Stars on punctuation, Cherry Black on modifiers). I still like having heavier keys on punctuation, enter, backspace etc. but realised I need something more comfortable for the alphas. I've since moved to a silent tactile (Gazzew U4s). That has been much better though still a bit too stiff for smooth typing, so I'm in the process of choosing a lighter silent tactile (though still tactile enough to discourage typos).

I guess what I'm saying is that it may take you a couple of iterations before you find your sweet spot. Depending how finicky you are of course. If you think you might be finicky, then a hotswap board is a good idea. It will greatly expand your switch options if you don't have a soldering iron, and save you a ton of time even if you do.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 14 October 2021, 21:11:39 »
Hi Volny,

What lighter silent tactile are you considering? I agree that U4 is too stiff for smooth typing.

The Silent Sky stem is better for smooth typing, you just need the right spring weight and housing. Aliaz will work, too, but it actuates low and is barely tactile. The OP might enjoy BOX Silent Brown, as it is a little stiffer than MX Brown.

Offline Riverman

  • Posts: 391
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 15 October 2021, 16:18:32 »

Otherwise, if you did like the MX Brown then I would have recommended that you'd try out Gateron Silent Brown switches on a switch tester or a hotswap keyboard.

The switches have silencing like Cherry MX Silent Black, and have full key travel. They also do not cost nearly as much as Zilents.
Although I've heard that they could be a bit inconsistent in their feel and sound profile. (I've only tested them on a switch tester myself and I'm not as sensitive as others are)
I recently replaced all of the switches in a Das Keyboard 4 with Gateron silent browns.  They're definitely quiet, even more so than Cherry silent blacks, but they are very inconsistent, and extremely light, almost lighter feeling than Cherry browns.  The travel is great, though.  They have more of a full travel feel than Cherry silent blacks.  Out of the batch of 110 Gateron silent browns I got, about a half dozen had virtually no silencing at all, and some others were bad enough when pressed off center that I had to put them on keys that I rarely, if ever, use.  One of the switches was missing the lower rubber bumpers entirely.  Some had bumpers that were thinner than others, so they definitely need to work on their quality control.  Cherry silents, in comparison, are extremely uniform, but not as satisfying to type on.  If the OP wants a heavier switch than MX brown, Gateron silent browns probably aren't the best, but maybe they could be with a spring swap.  They seemed pretty inexpensive for a silent switch.

Offline arhue

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 14
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 15 October 2021, 16:23:34 »


It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 October 2021, 16:26:10 by arhue »

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 15 October 2021, 18:56:46 »
It looks great!

Those Ducky keycaps should last a very long time. And Cherry switches smooth out over time, so the Silent Blacks will become easier and easier to type on.

It should really address the problems that you were experiencing prior.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 15 October 2021, 19:00:42 »

I recently replaced all of the switches in a Das Keyboard 4 with Gateron silent browns.  They're definitely quiet, even more so than Cherry silent blacks, but they are very inconsistent, and extremely light, almost lighter feeling than Cherry browns.  The travel is great, though.  They have more of a full travel feel than Cherry silent blacks.  Out of the batch of 110 Gateron silent browns I got, about a half dozen had virtually no silencing at all, and some others were bad enough when pressed off center that I had to put them on keys that I rarely, if ever, use.  One of the switches was missing the lower rubber bumpers entirely.  Some had bumpers that were thinner than others, so they definitely need to work on their quality control.  Cherry silents, in comparison, are extremely uniform, but not as satisfying to type on.  If the OP wants a heavier switch than MX brown, Gateron silent browns probably aren't the best, but maybe they could be with a spring swap.  They seemed pretty inexpensive for a silent switch.

You're right, they're inconsistent. I can't always rely on Gateron Silent Browns to do what they are supposed to, and in this day and age, that's not acceptable in a silent tactile.

But they do have a lot of travel, characteristic of Gateron. Aliaz is like Gateron Silent Brown, and actuates low. Lower than my preference. I think Aliaz is more consistent than Gateron Silent Brown, it seems to be Silent Brown produced to a higher quality spec.

If my experience with Aliaz is any indication, it's useful to replace the spring with a heavier one. 65-70+ I've even typed on 78 G HHHH linears with some degree of comfort, so maybe something like 72 G Aliaz. That will reduce accidental keypresses, and still retain maybe a sliver of tactility.

I honestly seem to prefer the 3.6mm and lower-travel silent tactiles over Gateron Silent Brown. That extra, extra dampening (that reduces travel) seems to help the silencing.

Offline Volny

  • Posts: 233
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 16 October 2021, 18:21:32 »
Great! Now you don't have to worry about inadvertent key presses every time someone on your street coughs too hard :D. Here's hoping they continue to improve as you get used to them.

Hi Volny,

What lighter silent tactile are you considering? I agree that U4 is too stiff for smooth typing.

The Silent Sky stem is better for smooth typing, you just need the right spring weight and housing. Aliaz will work, too, but it actuates low and is barely tactile. The OP might enjoy BOX Silent Brown, as it is a little stiffer than MX Brown.

After taking your advice from a different thread, I've been trying outemu silent sky (silent forest) stems in different housings, and doing blind tests. I've also done the same with Durock shrimp stems. I tried housings from U4Ts, Dragonfruits, Polias, Durock pianos, Everglide bamboos, TTC bluish whites, and Huano Bananas.

The Shrimps felt too heavily tactile in all of them. The Outemu skies felt best in Bamboo and Banana housings. The Bamboo housings sounded better on top out, but the Banana housings had an even more comfortable cushioned bottom out, and seemed a little more typo-proof. I care about feel more than sound, so Banana housings were the winner. I would have tried bamboo top housings with banana bottom housings, but they're incompatible. I'm still finding my ideal spring. It's a toss up between stock and Sprit 55g 'long', which both feel very good. I think I'm going to like these switches a lot. They feel light and snappy, with excellent finger comfort, very prompt return, and a good moderate tactile event.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 16 October 2021, 19:32:32 »

After taking your advice from a different thread, I've been trying outemu silent sky (silent forest) stems in different housings, and doing blind tests. I've also done the same with Durock shrimp stems. I tried housings from U4Ts, Dragonfruits, Polias, Durock pianos, Everglide bamboos, TTC bluish whites, and Huano Bananas.

Thanks for the detailed info.

I agree that Shrimp stems would feel too tactile. There's only so much you can do with a highly-tactile stem.

Doesn't surprise me that the Skies did well in a Banana housing. That's a plasticy-sounding medium-tactile, and Skies perform well there (same in TTC Gold Brown V2 and MX Clear housings).

Good call on 55 G Spirit. I find that they go well with some rebuilds of MX Brown, OUTEMU stems and housings seem to like it as well. I would like to use 55 G Spirit with my OUTEMU Silent Skies, but in some housings (e.g. Bobas), 55 G is just not enough. I am using 62-65 G springs with my Silent Sky / Golden Brown V2 switches on the heavier modifier keys, 60 G 14mm on the rest.

But with the right housings, stabilizers, and keycaps, you can use 55 G, and I intend to do something similar.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 16 October 2021, 22:36:26 »
The Outemu skies felt best in Bamboo and Banana housings.

Okay, I just did some quick testing with Silent Sky Banana and 55 G regular Spirit.

It definitely works, and yes, it is a more cushioned bottom-out. Possibly moreso than with most other switches. So it may be a good platform for silent tactiles.

55 regular is a little sticky/squishy, so I guess 55 L is better. I only have the regular kind. But it's still snappy enough.

I think I should test with 55 and 57 G TX in various sizes, which I have, and possibly OUTEMU 52 G, which is good with Silent Sky in the right housings.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 19 October 2021, 10:56:51 »
It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.

Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.

I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.

Offline arhue

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 14
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 04:42:04 »
It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.

Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.

I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.

You should! My WPM on Browns was 65-70(with lots of errors). After just a few days of using Cherry MX Blacks Silents, I'm already up to 80-85(usually with 0 errors). Extremely happy with the decision to get this keyboard and thanks to HungerMechanic and others in this thread who helped me make the decision. Typing fatigue has been 0 thus far.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2021, 04:44:30 by arhue »

Offline Volny

  • Posts: 233
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 08:56:30 »
It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.

Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.

I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 12:45:09 »
It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.

Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.

I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.

You should! My WPM on Browns was 65-70(with lots of errors). After just a few days of using Cherry MX Blacks Silents, I'm already up to 80-85(usually with 0 errors). Extremely happy with the decision to get this keyboard and thanks to HungerMechanic and others in this thread who helped me make the decision. Typing fatigue has been 0 thus far.

277616-0

This is my only MX black board with bone stock switches. The rest are all TG3 boards with their weird rubber dome mats overlaying them. It is definitely more comfortable than I remember, but the spacebar is also extremly stiff. I think it has one of those MX linear gray switches. I think I could probably acclimate to it, but it is still stiffer for a linear than I feel comfortable typing accurately with reliably. I also rarely ever use linears for typing anymore, so that may also be a factor. I'll test drive it for at least a week or so and see.

I wonder what you've been doing to make your fingers so strong if not having already been using relatively stiff switches.

It's here!!! Took less than a day after it got shipped from US to get here in Toronto. I did 3 quick runs of 10fastfingers and am already above my speed on my Browns, mostly because I'm not hitting the wrong key all the time. The keys do an excellent job of keeping the noise down. The keys feel a bit heavy and need a bit more force to actuate, but I don't mind them at all. Haven't yet noticed typing fatigue. I think they should feel better better after I get used to them more.

Looks great. Maybe I should give MX black a chance again myself and see if anything has changed now that I routinely type on pretty stiff clickies. I'm surprised you jumped straight from MX brown to black without any discomfort or fatigue.

I don't think any switches should be made as light as MX red and brown at all without enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation.
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.

50-55 did always seem like the sweet spot for linears for me as well. I thought Gateron yellows had a great weighting, but I haven't tried any intermediate weighting MX linears in an actual board. The Varmilo EC Rose sounded appealing to me for a potential gaming switch, since I'm never going to bother with frankenswitches and lubing. Those are also supposed to be 55g. Gaming is also the beginning and end of my interest in linears though, outside of just being as well-rounded as I can be in terms of experience.

Offline arhue

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 14
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 12:52:53 »
>I wonder what you've been doing to make your fingers so strong if not having already been using relatively stiff switches.

I used to powerlift so it's most likely that :D

Just wasn't aware of needing a stiffer keyboard before this

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 13:16:26 »
>I wonder what you've been doing to make your fingers so strong if not having already been using relatively stiff switches.

I used to powerlift so it's most likely that :D

Just wasn't aware of needing a stiffer keyboard before this

Well, that's great. I always figure you're better off with stiffer switches than lighter, if you're comfortable with them. The problem is just that most people are used to relatively light MX switches, and Cherry doesn't really offer anything intermediate. The exception being MX blue, since those have enough of a tactile event that you're not really going to accidentally press them nearly as much as MX red or brown.

If MX black is no problem at all for you, when you go to try clickies, you may be ok jumping straight to box navies. Box jades for sure, which most people seem to prefer in terms of sound. Both are VERY loud and VERY tactile clickies though. If you want to tone down the tactility but not the weight, try box pale blue. Given your preference in linear, I wouldn't take you for a box white or box pink guy, but they're the lighter of their clickies. Whites are even less tactile than MX blue, box pink are most similar to a lighter jade, both in terms of sound and feel. Jades and pinks are relatively low-pitched, most of the rest are high-pitched, like MX blue. Matias switches are stiffer than MX blue as well, and I can't imagine you would have any trouble at all acclimating to them.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2021, 13:25:44 by Maledicted »

Offline arhue

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 14
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 14:05:07 »
>I wonder what you've been doing to make your fingers so strong if not having already been using relatively stiff switches.

I used to powerlift so it's most likely that :D

Just wasn't aware of needing a stiffer keyboard before this

Well, that's great. I always figure you're better off with stiffer switches than lighter, if you're comfortable with them. The problem is just that most people are used to relatively light MX switches, and Cherry doesn't really offer anything intermediate. The exception being MX blue, since those have enough of a tactile event that you're not really going to accidentally press them nearly as much as MX red or brown.

If MX black is no problem at all for you, when you go to try clickies, you may be ok jumping straight to box navies. Box jades for sure, which most people seem to prefer in terms of sound. Both are VERY loud and VERY tactile clickies though. If you want to tone down the tactility but not the weight, try box pale blue. Given your preference in linear, I wouldn't take you for a box white or box pink guy, but they're the lighter of their clickies. Whites are even less tactile than MX blue, box pink are most similar to a lighter jade, both in terms of sound and feel. Jades and pinks are relatively low-pitched, most of the rest are high-pitched, like MX blue. Matias switches are stiffer than MX blue as well, and I can't imagine you would have any trouble at all acclimating to them.

Thank you! That's really interesting info. All of these look like solid options. I'll try to do more research on them.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 984
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 16:29:11 »
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.

Thanks for the details. I will try a Silent Sky Banana with a stock spring, once I get more. The 55 G 15mm Spirit is a bit weak for these, I think. The tactility of the Banana housings is greater than the TTC Gold Brown V2s that I use for Silent Skies.

Offline Volny

  • Posts: 233
Re: Cherry MX Silent Red/Black vs Matais Quiet Click
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 09:22:47 »
I did some more blind tests with some different springs (45,55,65, long 3-stage, stock banana) and in the end the winner was stock banana, with 55 (so-called "long" springs - I think 16mm, which is not nearly as long as the stock banana springs) a close second.

Thanks for the details. I will try a Silent Sky Banana with a stock spring, once I get more. The 55 G 15mm Spirit is a bit weak for these, I think. The tactility of the Banana housings is greater than the TTC Gold Brown V2s that I use for Silent Skies.

It probably also depends on your keycaps. I tried them with 45g springs (not sure what length, either 15mm or 16mm) and they were just fine. They felt good and were responsive enough, though just a little less typo-proof than I'd like. I use signature plastics DSA though. They are nice and thick and solid feeling, but still probably have less mass than a taller keycap like OEM.