geekhack
geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: ShakeR on Tue, 19 June 2012, 10:31:10
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ALPS switches have become convoluted with so many different versions. Two 'ALPS' switches of the exact same color may have completely different characteristics based on the origin, manufacturer, and Type / Generation.
The idea of this thread is to compile a list of all 'ALPS' style switches (types) and clarify what is what. Also, assign specific 'ALPS' switches to the corresponding keyboards. Please add to the list as much as you can.
Type Names / AKAs:
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Type I (Fukka)
Type II (XM)
Type III (?)
Type IV (?)
Color & Type - Design - Force - Known Models
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Green Type II (XM) - Tactile & Clicky - 45g - DK1087XM, DK1008XM
Black Type II (XM) - Linear - 45g - DK1087XM, DK1008XM
Other Noteworthy ALPS Info
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DataComp's ("DC ALPS") - 4 colors - everything identical to Cherry MX black, blue, brown, and reds in terms of color and tactile / clicky. Not 100% if force is identical to Cherry MX. Also not sure what 'type' these are considered.
Tai-Hao's ("APC ALPS") - several colors. Dark Blue is the most common @ 55g (clicky / tactile unknown) I'm getting more info from TH on these now.
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Now here's the thing – we have a wiki here, and Deskthority has a wiki. (Deskthority uses "Type I" to refer to the complicated switch, and I just found a recent Ripster post suggesting Type II = Fukka, but generally the consensus is that Type X means simplified, with Type I = Fukka, Type II = XM, Type III = (was in the old wiki) and Type IV is a mixture of Types I and II -- I have photos of the internals of one if Ripster's photos are all gone. XM greens allegedly come in two varieties, linear and clicky, though I don't know for sure that either the Ducky or TP3 switches are Type II and not Type IV, as they're identical from the outside – you have to open them up to be sure which it is, as with any ALPS switch really.
Does it make sense to run two duplicate wikis? To me that seems a bit daft.
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just redo it, alps has always be confusing, cuz it was a horrible wiki built upon a horrible wiki, remake it, rename it
sort it by color if that works better
make new types if that is better
instead of type 1,2,3,4 which means absolutely nothing, make them
type s for simplified
type c for complex
type m for mixed
type g for ghetto
i was never able to clearly understand alps cuz the wiki's were horribad, convoluted and just didn't make sense.
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What happened to the ALPS Wiki?
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As far as I know, all of the old GH wikis got nuked during the reboot.
Edit:
For the new folks: Geekhack got seriously h4xx0r3d not that long ago and GH switch everything over from the crappy vBulletin software to SMF.
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Lanx: Types I–IV are all simplified switches. Matias is about to introduce a fifth type of simplified switch, that I want to call Type V.
My only unease with the Type numbers is that they probably don't represent the sequence in which they were put into production – for all I know, Type I is derived from Type IV. To determine that, we would probably need a collossal list of keyboards with years of manufacture – I have a Type IV for example, brand, serial, but no year of manufacture; ditto my blue complicated ALPS board. (My TP3 doesn't even have a serial number, which is bad.)
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As far as I know, all of the old GH wikis got nuked during the reboot.
Edit:
For the new folks: Geekhack got seriously h4xx0r3d not that long ago and GH switch everything over from the crappy vBulletin software to SMF.
Thanks. This new forum software will take some getting used to.
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As far as I know, all of the old GH wikis got nuked during the reboot.
Edit:
For the new folks: Geekhack got seriously h4xx0r3d not that long ago and GH switch everything over from the crappy vBulletin software to SMF.
Some of the old wiki articles were backed up. For example, the "start" machanical keyboards one was saved. I completely re-wrote it anyway, and you can see it on our wiki now. I've put a little work into completely remaking the MX switch wiki as well.
I'm going to move this to the wiki workshop subforum, so people can draw on anything posted here to write a good ALPS wiki article.
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Needs work.
Why not just copy Ripster's old one over. You're going to have a hard time finding a better one. I learned a LOT from it.
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I don't agree with whoever it was that wanted to change the type nomenclature. The one we have now is fully established among most keyboard folk, even if we don't remember what all the types were. I do know some stuff about alps I can offer here:
Complicated:
Whites- clicky and tactile
Blues- clicky and tactile
Pinks- I think these are clicky and less tactile than whites and blues, but I'm not sure.
Blacks-Tactile
Yellow- I don't recall
Orange- I don't recall
Cream- Dampened and tactile
Green- Linear
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Orange is tactile, as is pink so far as I understand it.
Green is both linear (complicated) and clicky (two different XM versions).
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Just ditch the "type" numbers. They were introduced with the old Geekhack Wiki, were they not? Do they have much meaning outside this board anyway? Are they used by keyboard builders? I don't think so.
Just call them Alps CM, Fuhua (Fukka), XM, APC, DataComp and Matias.
I do agree that the Alps CM (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM) page on the Deskthority Wiki may need to be rewritten.
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Which manufacturers do Types III and IV correspond to?
Does "CM" cover ALPS-made simplified switches? The simplified switches were originally designed and manufactured by ALPS themselves, so the type numbers are arguably better, especially since we've already been attributing switches to XM and Fuhua that were actually made by ALPS themselves. I thought Strongman (who may or may not be SMK) made ALPS switches as well – isn't that what one of the Tactile Pro keyboards had?
Type I to IV refers to the mechanism regardless of who actually made the switch, and complicated refers to the original CM design with the switchplate.
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If it helps, I think I still have copies of the wiki articles I wrote way back. Let me know if they will be useful. I haven't been around for a long time. Nice to see this community has grown so much!
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If it helps, I think I still have copies of the wiki articles I wrote way back. Let me know if they will be useful. I haven't been around for a long time. Nice to see this community has grown so much!
Switch Kitten?!
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Other Noteworthy ALPS Info
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DataComp's ("DC ALPS") - 4 colors - everything identical to Cherry MX black, blue, brown, and reds in terms of color and tactile / clicky. Not 100% if force is identical to Cherry MX. Also not sure what 'type' these are considered.
Tai-Hao's ("APC ALPS") - several colors. Dark Blue is the most common @ 55g (clicky / tactile unknown) I'm getting more info from TH on these now.
Interesting. I've been corresponding with Felly Du at Taiwan Tai-Hao — apparently I didn't notice this part of your post at the time (or you added it later). I'm trying to get him to quote me for sending me one of each switch. He sent me some photos instead, but of a switch that I was not aware existed (lime green). And it's the WHN (non-click) switches I'm more curious about — Felly says they're tactile, but I'm suspicious about this. And if they really are tactile, I want to see what leaf they're using. I've never seen a copper tactile leaf, but then, APC switches used to have full-size leaves.
I've never heard of DataComp "DC ALPS". Got any links?
I guess there's a whole market of keyboards in Asia that uses all these switches, that we never see. APC make eight different switches, most of which never end up in Western products.
In other news: "XM" is Xiang Min's KSB series of switches. Type I and Type II codes are now abolished for being meaningless. Type III and Type IV still exist as they represent specific switches. Type IV *may* be an unbranded APC; I realised that it has a unique click leaf with sharp, angled corners that I've never seen anywhere else, but that doesn't rule out APC, and Taiwan Tai-Hao give 1984 or 1985 as the introduction date for the APC range; they no longer have any info on their Aruz range.
Type III is the blue one from the Focus FK-2001 with Windows keys. Focus's sales mailbox hit quota, so I've not been able to ask them yet for details of their old keyboards. Type III has an APC-style contact mechanism, but outwardly resembles an Alps/Fuhua.