Author Topic: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Axios [In Development]  (Read 661608 times)

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Offline daerid

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #800 on: Thu, 05 September 2013, 23:50:26 »
Another +1 for keeping the 1.5 keys, on both the inside and the outside. I don't think I'd really like a completely homogeneous keyboard. Plus, I use one of the vertical 1.5x keys for enter, and having a 1x enter key just feels wrong

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #801 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 00:16:43 »
For now, I'm going to work with the idea of 1.5x outside, with the verticals replaced by 3 keys, but this is still subject to some testing.

On a seperate note, while evaluating package options for control ICs to reduce package size, I've figured out a few things that helps negate what was an increase in cost when I decided to change the controllers.

1) The LED controller I had selected, the PCA9685, is a 12-bit PWM controller. This is extreme overkill, especially with backlighting control of a single color. As for the onboard indicator LEDs, this is again a bit much, and so they will be replaced with a PCA9634 & PCA9635 instead. These chips offer the same functionality as the PCA9685, minus the bit depth, at a lower price. The PCA9634 is also smaller, and will be used for the thumb clusters. This will help me keep the price targets I'm aiming for.
2) The PCA9635s will also find a home in the RGB backlighting project, helping to keep the price lower than expected. There is still some development needed, to help finalize the price.
3) Unlike the PCA9685, the PCA9635 doesn't require FET drivers, again lowering the price without needing the FETs or their pullup resistors.
4) The I/O expander I'm planning to use for the keypads is the PCA9555A. As mentioned previously, I can use up to 8 devices on the same address. I had some concerns that when adding devices like external pads, LCDs, etc. that it would prevent the addition of things like foot switches. Going over the datasheet for the PCA9554A, which is an 8-bit version of the PCA9555A, the device's prefixed address is different. What this means is that there is a possibility of greater expansion past the original 8 devices, depending on what you're doing.

TL;DR Version
Lots of good R&D stuff that means the $120 beta cost & $200 retail are much more feasible.

Offline Demonmaker

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #802 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 07:16:46 »
TL;DR Version
Lots of good R&D stuff that means the $120 beta cost & $200 retail are much more feasible.

Smashing  ;D

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #803 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 08:04:09 »
That's awesome.

Will the beta testers get any access to the firmware source? I'd love to try my hand at messing around with that.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline kps

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #804 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 10:47:15 »
For now, I'm going to work with the idea of 1.5x outside, with the verticals replaced by 3 keys, but this is still subject to some testing
Though I'd prefer 1u, I do think 1.5u is preferable to 1.25u.

Would it be practical (i.e. not cost more, not be too much effort) to give the PCB extra pads in the 1u locations (similar to what Phantom has)? If you're using Eagle I think this would be most easily done with an alternate package of the switch device (and I'd be happy to create the package if it would help). Actually, that would probably satisfy the people who want 1.5u in the middle, too.

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #805 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 10:55:43 »
For now, I'm going to work with the idea of 1.5x outside, with the verticals replaced by 3 keys, but this is still subject to some testing
Though I'd prefer 1u, I do think 1.5u is preferable to 1.25u.

Would it be practical (i.e. not cost more, not be too much effort) to give the PCB extra pads in the 1u locations (similar to what Phantom has)? If you're using Eagle I think this would be most easily done with an alternate package of the switch device (and I'd be happy to create the package if it would help). Actually, that would probably satisfy the people who want 1.5u in the middle, too.

I've already looked at this, and it doesn't work with the LEDs, their placement causes problems with doing a shift-able mount. Also, as it was already pointed out, the 1.5u keys help to make the kit compatible with the ergodox kits that are out there.
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 September 2013, 10:58:19 by AcidFire »

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #806 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 23:57:31 »
I've been doing a fair bit of coding & testing the last couple of days with what I had planned to use for a controller, and after a fair bit of research today to address the concerns I had, I've decided on the following:

1) I'm switching to an ARM based controller, specifically the NXP LPC11U37FBD48/401, a Cortex M0 ARM processor running at 50mhz with 128kb flash, 10kb ram, and two SPI controllers. The main attraction is an I2C controller capable of taking advantage of the Fm+ that all the expanders & LED cpntrollers support, more than doubling the 400kbit of the ATMEGA32u4, supporting up to 1mbit. Additionally, this controller has the USB profiles for HID, MSD & CDC built in, and a fairly straight forward method of implimenting a composite USB device. This eliminates one of the major headaches I was expecting to fight with the bootloader on the ATMEGA32u4. There are countless other reasons this move benefits the project that I won't go into, except...

2) With more RAM and the ability have the device mount as a storage device, Profiles & Macros will be stored on a MicroSD card that will be included as part of the base kit. The result is two fold, you'll be able to edit profiles & macros with just a text editor, and you should also be able to take the configuration software with you as well. I don't know if it'll be fast enough to make it worth taking other files, but thats also a possibility.

3) I've selected the bluetooth radio, the Nordic nRF8001, which is a LE bluetooth 4 controller. I still have some numbers to work out, but it should be possible to bring down what was the original estimate for the kit.

Everything will still be coded in C, and the firmware will be made available once the beta test is ready to go.

Offline nazarie

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #807 on: Sat, 07 September 2013, 00:42:29 »
Ok, THAT was a marathon read.  All 27 pages and I was sad there weren't more. :)

I'm totally in love with this project.  If you need some firmware help, feel free to PM me.  I'm a programmer at my day job and I've programmed for Cortex M3 chips for my quadcopter hobby/obsession.

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #808 on: Sat, 07 September 2013, 00:52:29 »
Ok, THAT was a marathon read.  All 27 pages and I was sad there weren't more. :)

I'm totally in love with this project.  If you need some firmware help, feel free to PM me.  I'm a programmer at my day job and I've programmed for Cortex M3 chips for my quadcopter hobby/obsession.
I will definitely take you up on that :D I'll be designing a test board over the weekend for the M0 and hopefully before the end of the month the first complete firmware will be in testing.

Offline fydo

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #809 on: Sat, 07 September 2013, 10:44:41 »
Totally interested! Also super cool that you live so close to me.

If you're going to be loading profiles & macros from a file system, I think it would be a great opportunity to create a web-based layout and macro editor. Loading and exporting text files should be easy enough. I don't have a ton of spare time, but that is something I'd like to contribute.
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Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #810 on: Mon, 09 September 2013, 01:52:13 »
Totally interested! Also super cool that you live so close to me.

If you're going to be loading profiles & macros from a file system, I think it would be a great opportunity to create a web-based layout and macro editor. Loading and exporting text files should be easy enough. I don't have a ton of spare time, but that is something I'd like to contribute.

Funny enough, I'm a web dev and this didn't even occur to me right away lol. But I've since got most of what the site's functionality should be mapped out, should be fun to put together while I'm waiting for the parts for the beta kits to come in when the time comes.

As I previously mentioned, I've been working on a new CPU board:

While the new board is longer, it's also thinner and it also integrates the MicroSD reader. It also tightens up the connector spacing, using smaller 2mm connectors and better spacing.
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 September 2013, 02:00:00 by AcidFire »

Offline spspencer

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #811 on: Mon, 09 September 2013, 17:16:32 »

2) With more RAM and the ability have the device mount as a storage device, Profiles & Macros will be stored on a MicroSD card that will be included as part of the base kit. The result is two fold, you'll be able to edit profiles & macros with just a text editor, and you should also be able to take the configuration software with you as well. I don't know if it'll be fast enough to make it worth taking other files, but thats also a possibility.


I really like this idea, but have a few quick questions/comments/concerns about this combo-ing.

1. Concern: How will this look to the system? Will it still look like a HID (Keyboard) or will it look like an USB hybrid storage device? I know the military and some corporations do not allow ppl to plug in usb thumb drives for security reasons. Will this combo lock these users out? I personally don't care because I'm no longer in the military and hook up whatever I want to whatever I want. I'm just pointing it out for consideration for those who may be restricted.

1b. Comment: Hak5 has the USB Rubber ducky; it uses micro SD but it still looks like a standard Keyboard to the system. Maybe the your keyboard can use some of the same technology to get around restrictions?

1c. Comment: What about installing something like a keylogger on the keyboard? I'm not talking about installing anything that will affect any machine for nefarious reasons; I mean a way for the keyboard to keep track of what you (the owner) typed. I know there have been times when I've lost text before, it would be useful to have a copy right on my keyboard. Another use-case: Taking notes with no computer! Just pull out the battery powered keyboard, and start typing. Later, when at home, open up the file and tidy it up. That would really be some zen writing! No keycap legends, No screen, just brain-to-fingers distraction free writing.

2. Comment: I think it would be cool to be able to read/write files to the microSD in the keyboard, maybe even store some portable apps. Love my portable apps.

3. Question: Are you planning on having the microSD externally accessible, or will it be tucked out of the way in the case, i.e. install it when building then forget about it?

One last thing, Awesome Project!

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #812 on: Mon, 09 September 2013, 18:13:17 »

2) With more RAM and the ability have the device mount as a storage device, Profiles & Macros will be stored on a MicroSD card that will be included as part of the base kit. The result is two fold, you'll be able to edit profiles & macros with just a text editor, and you should also be able to take the configuration software with you as well. I don't know if it'll be fast enough to make it worth taking other files, but thats also a possibility.


I really like this idea, but have a few quick questions/comments/concerns about this combo-ing.

1. Concern: How will this look to the system? Will it still look like a HID (Keyboard) or will it look like an USB hybrid storage device? I know the military and some corporations do not allow ppl to plug in usb thumb drives for security reasons. Will this combo lock these users out? I personally don't care because I'm no longer in the military and hook up whatever I want to whatever I want. I'm just pointing it out for consideration for those who may be restricted.

1b. Comment: Hak5 has the USB Rubber ducky; it uses micro SD but it still looks like a standard Keyboard to the system. Maybe the your keyboard can use some of the same technology to get around restrictions?

1c. Comment: What about installing something like a keylogger on the keyboard? I'm not talking about installing anything that will affect any machine for nefarious reasons; I mean a way for the keyboard to keep track of what you (the owner) typed. I know there have been times when I've lost text before, it would be useful to have a copy right on my keyboard. Another use-case: Taking notes with no computer! Just pull out the battery powered keyboard, and start typing. Later, when at home, open up the file and tidy it up. That would really be some zen writing! No keycap legends, No screen, just brain-to-fingers distraction free writing.

2. Comment: I think it would be cool to be able to read/write files to the microSD in the keyboard, maybe even store some portable apps. Love my portable apps.

3. Question: Are you planning on having the microSD externally accessible, or will it be tucked out of the way in the case, i.e. install it when building then forget about it?

One last thing, Awesome Project!
1: As far as I understand it should show as two devices, but in all honesty I can't say entirely for sure until I've tried. I'll look at a couple of different ways to get around this issue for people, maybe even just holding down a key while plugging it in to keep it from mounting the flash portion.

1b: It looks like the ducky isn't sneaking the SD in, but rather delivering scripts based on keyboard shortcuts & scripts stored on the flash drive. This is basically the same technique as I previously mentioned, where the SD is still available to the controller, just not the PC it's plugged into.

1c: While this is entirely possible, it is not something I want to officially support for privacy & security reasons. That being said, I'm sure it's something that can be put together rather easily and would be interesting to watch someone just type to themselves without a screen.

2. I agree, and it's something I'll be investigating. I've got more than a few portable apps I use now and it would be rather useful to be able to store them onboard.

3. Currently the plan is to build it into the case, as it isn't something that should need to be changed often. That being said, it'll still be accessible, with the card facing you when you open the device.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #813 on: Mon, 09 September 2013, 21:14:37 »
Totally interested! Also super cool that you live so close to me.

If you're going to be loading profiles & macros from a file system, I think it would be a great opportunity to create a web-based layout and macro editor. Loading and exporting text files should be easy enough. I don't have a ton of spare time, but that is something I'd like to contribute.

Funny enough, I'm a web dev and this didn't even occur to me right away lol. But I've since got most of what the site's functionality should be mapped out, should be fun to put together while I'm waiting for the parts for the beta kits to come in when the time comes.

As I previously mentioned, I've been working on a new CPU board:
Show Image

While the new board is longer, it's also thinner and it also integrates the MicroSD reader. It also tightens up the connector spacing, using smaller 2mm connectors and better spacing.
Don't get me wrong - I don't wanna burst your bubble ...
Why don't you use one single atmega32u4 module??? You don't need to reinvent the wheel ...
There is a lot of "arduino micro" clones out there (ebay, 9 bucks)

To make the uC to see your SD card you will need the uC code in order to be able to read fat, fat32 (dunno which one, don't remember)
But I do remember that it is HUGE! (16k for a uc with 32k is half of it's capacity - so it's huge)
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 September 2013, 21:24:11 by agodinhost »
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Offline tups

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #814 on: Tue, 10 September 2013, 11:20:37 »
I read through this thread a couple of days ago. Looks awesome! AcidFire, do you still want beta testers?

1: As far as I understand it should show as two devices, but in all honesty I can't say entirely for sure until I've tried. I'll look at a couple of different ways to get around this issue for people, maybe even just holding down a key while plugging it in to keep it from mounting the flash portion.
I would suggest the opposite: only showing the flash drive when a specific key (or even any key) is held down while connecting. (This is what the Twiddler does, for what worth that comment is.)

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #815 on: Tue, 10 September 2013, 11:29:33 »
Totally interested! Also super cool that you live so close to me.

If you're going to be loading profiles & macros from a file system, I think it would be a great opportunity to create a web-based layout and macro editor. Loading and exporting text files should be easy enough. I don't have a ton of spare time, but that is something I'd like to contribute.

Funny enough, I'm a web dev and this didn't even occur to me right away lol. But I've since got most of what the site's functionality should be mapped out, should be fun to put together while I'm waiting for the parts for the beta kits to come in when the time comes.

As I previously mentioned, I've been working on a new CPU board:
Show Image

While the new board is longer, it's also thinner and it also integrates the MicroSD reader. It also tightens up the connector spacing, using smaller 2mm connectors and better spacing.
Don't get me wrong - I don't wanna burst your bubble ...
Why don't you use one single atmega32u4 module??? You don't need to reinvent the wheel ...
There is a lot of "arduino micro" clones out there (ebay, 9 bucks)

To make the uC to see your SD card you will need the uC code in order to be able to read fat, fat32 (dunno which one, don't remember)
But I do remember that it is HUGE! (16k for a uc with 32k is half of it's capacity - so it's huge)
I finished the initial pricing for the new controller last night. Even with the addition of a voltage regulator & microSD slot, it still comes in cheaper than a "$9.00 arduino micro", and thats at 1 lot quantity. At higher lots it becomes even cheaper, because the ARM has lower lot quantities than the Arduino.

And your right, the file system can take up a fair amount of space, so why wouldn't I choose a cheaper microcontroller with 4 times (atmega32u4: 32kb, ARM: 128kb) the storage space, at a cheaper price no less?

Offline kps

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #816 on: Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:55:28 »
I would suggest the opposite: only showing the flash drive when a specific key (or even any key) is held down while connecting.
That assumes there is a key attached to hold down at the time you're programming the controller.

I agree with your point though; I'd prefer not to have a keyboard present a file system by default.

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #817 on: Tue, 10 September 2013, 13:22:16 »
I would suggest the opposite: only showing the flash drive when a specific key (or even any key) is held down while connecting.
That assumes there is a key attached to hold down at the time you're programming the controller.

I agree with your point though; I'd prefer not to have a keyboard present a file system by default.

It's a fair point. What I'll test is whether a key can be used to toggle visibility of the file system, so essentially press a key and it mounts, press the key again and it dismounts.

Offline AndyCapets

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #818 on: Tue, 10 September 2013, 14:41:43 »
The acrylic is looking so clean and well made, good job mate!
I don't I like broccoli.

Offline tups

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #819 on: Wed, 11 September 2013, 11:22:37 »
Hmm, this could be of interest if you want to use a higher-level language (Mozilla's Rust) on bare-metal ARM: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-July/004841.html

Still somewhat in flux though.

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #820 on: Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:50:59 »
The acrylic is looking so clean and well made, good job mate!
Thank you :) I'm currently working on a new revision of the design that should hide all the screws, it just takes a bit more work to manufacture.

Hmm, this could be of interest if you want to use a higher-level language (Mozilla's Rust) on bare-metal ARM: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-July/004841.html

Still somewhat in flux though.
Thanks for the link. I've been looking at a couple different options including mbed, however from what I've seen I should have some luck porting over the existing code from the atmega to the ARM. I've found a couple of good guides for it and have started in on it while I wait for my development board to come in.

Offline reh

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #821 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:26:17 »
Hallo, i am new here, because i want to register for the beta test, but it doesnt work :-(

Here are my thoughts i want to write you in the beta form:
Please, can you make a pdf to printout the keyboard design (maybe with a stripe in the right width between the thumb pad and the other to fold it to the correct hight difference) so one can test if its comfortable for the hands?

You mentioned a mouse stick - a must have idea (the one of my ergo-touch keyboard is useless now because the old driver not works anymore - its to insensitive without it).
You wrote, they are not to buy without entire keyboards attached. Remembering i had seen such sticks on lookin for a new driver, i done some search and found some, but no idea about the prices.
http://www.fujitsu.com/emea/services/components/input/mice/tmpl_parts_fid-828-100-20.html
http://www.hellotrade.com/parex-electronics-computer/gyro-stick.html
http://www.interlinkelectronics.com/products.php
I used wikipedia to find search words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick#Naming_and_brands

I once had a maltron but i dont really liked it. I had no idea about cherry switches (black) and how to work with it, so i found the key travel too much. And I dont always type - on surfing/researching/programming i need a lot of shortcuts, which was awkward on the 3D shape. Further i use the neo layout, which puts the shortcuts in unusual places, what makes the entire thing more worse.
I hope i like the nexus better, but wouly like to have the proposed pdf.
Urgently need some one key macros for cut copy, paste, maybe things like strg+shift too. And the neo modifiers for layer 3 and 4 (5/6 are combinations).

I remember anywhere in the thread (yes, i read all pages) anything about shift/capslock - in neo pressing both shift or layer keys simultaneous acts like caps-lock. Very nice, but you need two mods for each layer (i prefer this anyway).

It not really belongs to this thread, but i mention it since i searched very long for such a program (win):
If you use more then one mouse you need different settings (one left, one right - cant understand why there is no way to have prefs for each mouse separate in Win). The logitech driver let me switch the buttons, but there was several other issues with it. Finally i found this little tool which does exactly what i want: http://www.eithermouse.com/
Not only adjusts the mouse buttons but can also adapt the cursor speed.

Offline Nico_h

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #822 on: Fri, 13 September 2013, 17:30:42 »
This looks impressive! Congratulation on the impressive work done so far! I can't wait to join the kickstarter! (I think I would go for cherry clear switches).

As I understand it, you have an easy supply of acrylic, which is why you use this material and its constraints in your design.

I am unfamiliar with the material, but I am wondering if it would be possible to have the thumb pads inclined from the main plane, by having them rest diagonally across a layer thickness? Maybe using a larger hole in the layers above and bellow the big spacer to hold the thumb pcb in these holes?

Looking at the palm rest between the digits and thumb boards:

Is there a way to have layers not have a vertical edge during fabrication, like a knife, chamfered or rounded edge?

Otherwise, would it be possible for the end-user to file/sand away the angles without damaging / breaking the layer?

Also, if you're going to make transparent cases available, I'd be interested in getting the PCB in blue or purple.

Any chance of an update on your schedule?

Keep up the good work and best of luck!

Offline yakitysax

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #823 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:40:46 »
AcidFire, amazing job with the keyboard.  I can't wait to get my hands on one as it looks like it improves on even the ErgoDox, which I consider the most intelligently designed keyboard for ergonomics on the planet atm, so that is no easy feat.  I am incredibly impressed with how quickly you iterate on the designs.  I am curious as to what your workflow looks like and what tools you are using go achieve such an amazingly quick turnaround time.  Can you talk about that some? Thanks, you rock!

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #824 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 09:20:14 »
AcidFire, amazing job with the keyboard.  I can't wait to get my hands on one as it looks like it improves on even the ErgoDox, which I consider the most intelligently designed keyboard for ergonomics on the planet atm, so that is no easy feat.  I am incredibly impressed with how quickly you iterate on the designs.  I am curious as to what your workflow looks like and what tools you are using go achieve such an amazingly quick turnaround time.  Can you talk about that some? Thanks, you rock!

He uses Adobe Illustrator and a laser cutter. What else do you need? :)
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #825 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 10:19:43 »
Hallo, i am new here, because i want to register for the beta test, but it doesnt work :-(

Here are my thoughts i want to write you in the beta form:
Please, can you make a pdf to printout the keyboard design (maybe with a stripe in the right width between the thumb pad and the other to fold it to the correct hight difference) so one can test if its comfortable for the hands?

You mentioned a mouse stick - a must have idea (the one of my ergo-touch keyboard is useless now because the old driver not works anymore - its to insensitive without it).
You wrote, they are not to buy without entire keyboards attached. Remembering i had seen such sticks on lookin for a new driver, i done some search and found some, but no idea about the prices.
http://www.fujitsu.com/emea/services/components/input/mice/tmpl_parts_fid-828-100-20.html
http://www.hellotrade.com/parex-electronics-computer/gyro-stick.html
http://www.interlinkelectronics.com/products.php
I used wikipedia to find search words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick#Naming_and_brands

I once had a maltron but i dont really liked it. I had no idea about cherry switches (black) and how to work with it, so i found the key travel too much. And I dont always type - on surfing/researching/programming i need a lot of shortcuts, which was awkward on the 3D shape. Further i use the neo layout, which puts the shortcuts in unusual places, what makes the entire thing more worse.
I hope i like the nexus better, but wouly like to have the proposed pdf.
Urgently need some one key macros for cut copy, paste, maybe things like strg+shift too. And the neo modifiers for layer 3 and 4 (5/6 are combinations).

I remember anywhere in the thread (yes, i read all pages) anything about shift/capslock - in neo pressing both shift or layer keys simultaneous acts like caps-lock. Very nice, but you need two mods for each layer (i prefer this anyway).

It not really belongs to this thread, but i mention it since i searched very long for such a program (win):
If you use more then one mouse you need different settings (one left, one right - cant understand why there is no way to have prefs for each mouse separate in Win). The logitech driver let me switch the buttons, but there was several other issues with it. Finally i found this little tool which does exactly what i want: http://www.eithermouse.com/
Not only adjusts the mouse buttons but can also adapt the cursor speed.
Thanks for the links to the pointing sticks. I've actually come accross most of those already, the problem is the price. What sources I could find for those, were either expensive, or had a high MOQ, or both. Because I'm sticking with the guideline that Open Source projects should follow a 2.6x markup, and a pointing device costing me $15.00 to ad to a project, not including supporting electronics or development cost, ends up being a $39.00 add on. That being said, I haven't given up on the idea and will keep looking for a source for the parts at a more affordable price.

Software wise, I will take a look at what you linked for the mice, it's definitely a good point about how windows allows you to set functionality. Definitely something to consider for the drivers as well.

This looks impressive! Congratulation on the impressive work done so far! I can't wait to join the kickstarter! (I think I would go for cherry clear switches).

As I understand it, you have an easy supply of acrylic, which is why you use this material and its constraints in your design.

I am unfamiliar with the material, but I am wondering if it would be possible to have the thumb pads inclined from the main plane, by having them rest diagonally across a layer thickness? Maybe using a larger hole in the layers above and bellow the big spacer to hold the thumb pcb in these holes?

Looking at the palm rest between the digits and thumb boards:

Is there a way to have layers not have a vertical edge during fabrication, like a knife, chamfered or rounded edge?

Otherwise, would it be possible for the end-user to file/sand away the angles without damaging / breaking the layer?

Also, if you're going to make transparent cases available, I'd be interested in getting the PCB in blue or purple.

Any chance of an update on your schedule?

Keep up the good work and best of luck!

I have a couple of options to explore with angling the thumb cluster. I could heat & bend the acrylic, but mass production would make this a bit of a nightmare. There's the possibility of doing the thumb as a completely separate piece that could rest on a stand designed to be angled from the main unit, but that means extra cables and I'm not sure how messy it will end up being. However, this is much easier to design for mass production, so its something I'll look at a bit more. I have a few more ideas I'm trying to find some time to explore a bit more in depth.

I've been looking at different ways to chamfer the edges, the biggest problem with working with the acrylic is finishing the edge, particularly getting the flame polished glass like finish. Easy in singles, not so much en masse, however the edge hasn't actually been as potentially uncomfortable as I was expecting. If I end up doing aluminum or injection molded parts (or both) this won't be nearly as much of an issue.

I'm not sure what color I'd get the PCBs done, but I'm leaning towards black w/ a white silkscreen. Other colors may be a possibility down the road, and of course the files will be released open source so you'd be able to have the PCBs made in the color of your choice, the only difference is that you'd have to do all the SMD assembly yourself.

AcidFire, amazing job with the keyboard.  I can't wait to get my hands on one as it looks like it improves on even the ErgoDox, which I consider the most intelligently designed keyboard for ergonomics on the planet atm, so that is no easy feat.  I am incredibly impressed with how quickly you iterate on the designs.  I am curious as to what your workflow looks like and what tools you are using go achieve such an amazingly quick turnaround time.  Can you talk about that some? Thanks, you rock!

As Thinplum mentioned, I do all my designs in Illustrator, which are then cut on a 60w Epliog Helix. I don't use anything for a 3D CAD package, I do all the solid geometry in my head, which admittedly doesn't always work quite the way I want. As for the PCBs, everything is done in Altium Designer, which has a bit of a steeper learning curve but I find far more flexible to use than Eagle. I've been testing a couple of different PCB protyping houses to figure out the best ratio between cost & quality, as well as delivery time.

Offline arcsign

  • Posts: 2
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #826 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 12:50:47 »
Hiya. I'm sort of new here, and found your thread recently while looking for an ergonomic keyboard; wrists have been giving me a bit of trouble and it seems like a good idea to head things off at the pass...

So, first of all, awesome work (extremely awesome). Favorites are:

- the keystation version with the extra buttons (or space for a trackball, perhaps) in the middle... but I'm constrained to finding something relatively portable
- the V-shaped 70% version... which is just gorgeous, but I think I would like to keep the split halves for tenting and adjustability reasons
- the version wrapped around the laptop, which very well could be the best thing ever.

A couple of questions/suggestions (for split versions mostly, but they sort of apply to anything):

1) If I understand correctly, you are planning on offering LEDs under each key for backlighting/etc. Will it be possible to have the keys change color so that all keys on a particular layer are lit the same color? As in: For layer 0, all keys are backlit white. For layer 1, keys that are unchanged from layer 0 (or unassigned) remain white, layer 1 mappings are changed to red. Layer 2 keys might be blue, but holdovers from layer 0 or unassigned will again remain white, etc.

Granted, the idea is not to be looking at the keyboard, but the monitor does not fill one's entire field of view, and the glow from the keyboard can serve as a cue (especially while learning) for what layer we are on and what features we have access to... this becomes more important when considering options for dynamic changes to the layout based on context information fed back from the computer... I would love to experiment with the keyboard as a sort of I/O device.


2) Is there any chance you could add a scroll wheel to each half (either near the index finger or the thumb, not sure which would be better)? I'd like to use a pair of scroll wheels (in combination with remapping scroll wheel functions based on currently selected layer, and a nearby LED for each wheel) to replace a subset of actions that are usually handled by the mouse and/or the arrow keys. These actions seem to fall into a few categories, roughly delimited as follows:

The first is area/pane selection. A lot of what the mouse ends up doing is clicking within some bound region of the screen; this can be file panes like in an ftp client, subsections of application interfaces, etc. I can see this as a type of action that could be replaced with the cursor controlled by either a scroll wheel (or two, one each for quick jogs in x, y), or a numpad-like arrangement of keys on a separate layer, with sections of the numpad corresponding to screen regions; hitting a key jumps the cursor to the desired region... faster than tab, and then minor adjustments can be made by moving the cursor with the scroll wheel.

The second is within-pane navigation. In some applications the arrows keys or pgup/pgdn/home/end are pretty good for getting around, but in others, they lack both the speed and precision of a scroll wheel. Moving the cursor around with the arrows keys is acceptable sometimes, but kind of a pain most of the time; especially if you are using the cursor or highlighted section of text as a bookmark while referencing something else. This could be set as another scroll wheel layer.

The third is text selection. Like many of you, I spend a lot of time in text editors. Some actions, like shift+home/end or shift+arrows are great for grabbing lines or blocks of text, but they leave something to be desired when navigating and selecting from single lines; too much tapping, and/or waiting for key repeats. Mapping scroll wheels to arrows, and/or shift+arrows on an alternate layer gives a much faster way of moving through text.

The fourth, and last one for the moment, is selecting fields within a document or page. Tab and shift tab are nice, but again, that ends up being a lot of tapping... bind them to scroll, and get around faster...

I think the addition of scroll wheels would eliminate some of the use cases that tend to force a switch to the mouse and break up the mostly-keyboard workflow that I (and probably others) are looking for. They are probably less expensive than trackballs, pointing sticks, or touchpads (and definitely less frustration-inducing than the third option), so they might be worth looking in to...


3) Are you planning to offer tent stands, (ideally with the degree markings that were on the single-unit adjustable angle/tent board) with the split version?

(Random suggestion, though kind of useless to me on account of "too big to travel with:" mount each half inside a partial sphere, then put that into a partial box (three faces, xy, yz, xz) with a spherical mounting, then you have a very adjustable glove thing... doesn't really have a huge advantage over more reasonable ways of adjusting the boards, but it would probably look neat...)

Anyway, keep up the amazing work and best regards!

(I've already signed up for the beta.)

Offline Thimplum

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1101
  • Master of all Ponies
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #827 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 12:59:25 »
Hiya. I'm sort of new here, and found your thread recently while looking for an ergonomic keyboard; wrists have been giving me a bit of trouble and it seems like a good idea to head things off at the pass...

So, first of all, awesome work (extremely awesome). Favorites are:

- the keystation version with the extra buttons (or space for a trackball, perhaps) in the middle... but I'm constrained to finding something relatively portable
- the V-shaped 70% version... which is just gorgeous, but I think I would like to keep the split halves for tenting and adjustability reasons
- the version wrapped around the laptop, which very well could be the best thing ever.

A couple of questions/suggestions (for split versions mostly, but they sort of apply to anything):

1) If I understand correctly, you are planning on offering LEDs under each key for backlighting/etc. Will it be possible to have the keys change color so that all keys on a particular layer are lit the same color? As in: For layer 0, all keys are backlit white. For layer 1, keys that are unchanged from layer 0 (or unassigned) remain white, layer 1 mappings are changed to red. Layer 2 keys might be blue, but holdovers from layer 0 or unassigned will again remain white, etc.

Granted, the idea is not to be looking at the keyboard, but the monitor does not fill one's entire field of view, and the glow from the keyboard can serve as a cue (especially while learning) for what layer we are on and what features we have access to... this becomes more important when considering options for dynamic changes to the layout based on context information fed back from the computer... I would love to experiment with the keyboard as a sort of I/O device.


2) Is there any chance you could add a scroll wheel to each half (either near the index finger or the thumb, not sure which would be better)? I'd like to use a pair of scroll wheels (in combination with remapping scroll wheel functions based on currently selected layer, and a nearby LED for each wheel) to replace a subset of actions that are usually handled by the mouse and/or the arrow keys. These actions seem to fall into a few categories, roughly delimited as follows:

The first is area/pane selection. A lot of what the mouse ends up doing is clicking within some bound region of the screen; this can be file panes like in an ftp client, subsections of application interfaces, etc. I can see this as a type of action that could be replaced with the cursor controlled by either a scroll wheel (or two, one each for quick jogs in x, y), or a numpad-like arrangement of keys on a separate layer, with sections of the numpad corresponding to screen regions; hitting a key jumps the cursor to the desired region... faster than tab, and then minor adjustments can be made by moving the cursor with the scroll wheel.

The second is within-pane navigation. In some applications the arrows keys or pgup/pgdn/home/end are pretty good for getting around, but in others, they lack both the speed and precision of a scroll wheel. Moving the cursor around with the arrows keys is acceptable sometimes, but kind of a pain most of the time; especially if you are using the cursor or highlighted section of text as a bookmark while referencing something else. This could be set as another scroll wheel layer.

The third is text selection. Like many of you, I spend a lot of time in text editors. Some actions, like shift+home/end or shift+arrows are great for grabbing lines or blocks of text, but they leave something to be desired when navigating and selecting from single lines; too much tapping, and/or waiting for key repeats. Mapping scroll wheels to arrows, and/or shift+arrows on an alternate layer gives a much faster way of moving through text.

The fourth, and last one for the moment, is selecting fields within a document or page. Tab and shift tab are nice, but again, that ends up being a lot of tapping... bind them to scroll, and get around faster...

I think the addition of scroll wheels would eliminate some of the use cases that tend to force a switch to the mouse and break up the mostly-keyboard workflow that I (and probably others) are looking for. They are probably less expensive than trackballs, pointing sticks, or touchpads (and definitely less frustration-inducing than the third option), so they might be worth looking in to...


3) Are you planning to offer tent stands, (ideally with the degree markings that were on the single-unit adjustable angle/tent board) with the split version?

(Random suggestion, though kind of useless to me on account of "too big to travel with:" mount each half inside a partial sphere, then put that into a partial box (three faces, xy, yz, xz) with a spherical mounting, then you have a very adjustable glove thing... doesn't really have a huge advantage over more reasonable ways of adjusting the boards, but it would probably look neat...)

Anyway, keep up the amazing work and best regards!

(I've already signed up for the beta.)
1) AcidFire has hinted that he's working on an RGB LED controller to accomplish this, but for the beta units, it will probably just be one color.

2) That's a really good idea. I don't know if AcidFire is planning on doing this, though.

3) The adjustable version of the keystation had degree markings, and it's designed in such a way that It can accept the two split boards, if that's what you meant.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline arcsign

  • Posts: 2
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #828 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 13:42:49 »
1) Ah, okay. That's what I thought, but I just wanted to check.

3) The keystation had them for rotation, and maybe tent, but I meant more for adjustable tent on each half without a structure linking them.

Offline Piotr Dobrogost

  • Posts: 37
Re: AcidFire's custom keyboard aka The Grand Piano
« Reply #829 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 14:32:29 »
You probably don't want completely (or near completely transparent/clear keycaps). The LEDs will not diffuse and it looks fairly poor.

I'm not going to use any key leds and would love to have clear caps.

Offline xman

  • Posts: 44
  • Location: New Jersey, USA
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #830 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 21:44:10 »
I have a couple of options to explore with angling the thumb cluster. I could heat & bend the acrylic, but mass production would make this a bit of a nightmare. There's the possibility of doing the thumb as a completely separate piece that could rest on a stand designed to be angled from the main unit, but that means extra cables and I'm not sure how messy it will end up being. However, this is much easier to design for mass production, so its something I'll look at a bit more.

That's a really good idea!
The thumb cluster as a separate piece seems like it might allow the most user-configurability,
which would be the best option for people with hand pain.




Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 767
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #831 on: Tue, 17 September 2013, 02:04:09 »
Totally interested! Also super cool that you live so close to me.

If you're going to be loading profiles & macros from a file system, I think it would be a great opportunity to create a web-based layout and macro editor. Loading and exporting text files should be easy enough. I don't have a ton of spare time, but that is something I'd like to contribute.

Funny enough, I'm a web dev and this didn't even occur to me right away lol. But I've since got most of what the site's functionality should be mapped out, should be fun to put together while I'm waiting for the parts for the beta kits to come in when the time comes.

As I previously mentioned, I've been working on a new CPU board:
Show Image

While the new board is longer, it's also thinner and it also integrates the MicroSD reader. It also tightens up the connector spacing, using smaller 2mm connectors and better spacing.
Don't get me wrong - I don't wanna burst your bubble ...
Why don't you use one single atmega32u4 module??? You don't need to reinvent the wheel ...
There is a lot of "arduino micro" clones out there (ebay, 9 bucks)

To make the uC to see your SD card you will need the uC code in order to be able to read fat, fat32 (dunno which one, don't remember)
But I do remember that it is HUGE! (16k for a uc with 32k is half of it's capacity - so it's huge)
I finished the initial pricing for the new controller last night. Even with the addition of a voltage regulator & microSD slot, it still comes in cheaper than a "$9.00 arduino micro", and thats at 1 lot quantity. At higher lots it becomes even cheaper, because the ARM has lower lot quantities than the Arduino.

And your right, the file system can take up a fair amount of space, so why wouldn't I choose a cheaper microcontroller with 4 times (atmega32u4: 32kb, ARM: 128kb) the storage space, at a cheaper price no less?
cheaper than 9 bucks? seems an awesome deal man - don't know how you did this magic but if is cheaper for 1 it will be cheaper for more boards.
Have you tried any other "development" board? Sometime ago I saw a few arduino clones using arm9 or 11. I'll try to get a look into it just to show you some alternatives (for later, whom knows?)
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline Piotr Dobrogost

  • Posts: 37
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #832 on: Tue, 17 September 2013, 14:24:44 »
I'd like to start by saying it's a fantastic project - I'm happy AcidFire started this and puts so much effort into it. Thank you very much!!!

I'm very curious to hear what you think about idea of extra, thin keys stuck in-between normal keys which I described here - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48615.0 Granted you like this idea, how difficult would it be to incorporate such keys in the Nexus? In one of the earlier posts you asked what we think of getting rid of side buttons; these micro keys could replace side keys increasing ergonomy of the keyboard at the same time. Also, as nice as center keys may seem to work, in practice I find them equally awkward to reach as other "normal" keys placed far from home positions. Trying different keyboards I came to the conclusion that a good key is the one which is nearby home positions and thus reducing the number of keys goes a long way towards increasing keyboard's ergonomy.

Would love to see Nexus using the idea of micro keys...
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 September 2013, 14:27:43 by Piotr Dobrogost »

Offline Thimplum

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1101
  • Master of all Ponies
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #833 on: Tue, 17 September 2013, 15:35:17 »
I'd like to start by saying it's a fantastic project - I'm happy AcidFire started this and puts so much effort into it. Thank you very much!!!

I'm very curious to hear what you think about idea of extra, thin keys stuck in-between normal keys which I described here - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48615.0 Granted you like this idea, how difficult would it be to incorporate such keys in the Nexus? In one of the earlier posts you asked what we think of getting rid of side buttons; these micro keys could replace side keys increasing ergonomy of the keyboard at the same time. Also, as nice as center keys may seem to work, in practice I find them equally awkward to reach as other "normal" keys placed far from home positions. Trying different keyboards I came to the conclusion that a good key is the one which is nearby home positions and thus reducing the number of keys goes a long way towards increasing keyboard's ergonomy.

Would love to see Nexus using the idea of micro keys...

honestly, I'm not a big fan of small keys like that.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline Piotr Dobrogost

  • Posts: 37
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #834 on: Tue, 17 September 2013, 16:17:55 »
honestly, I'm not a big fan of small keys like that.

What are your objections exactly?

Offline Thimplum

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1101
  • Master of all Ponies
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #835 on: Tue, 17 September 2013, 16:24:22 »
honestly, I'm not a big fan of small keys like that.

What are your objections exactly?

I just plain can't hit 'em. Especially the shift keys. My fingers are too fat LOL.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline Piotr Dobrogost

  • Posts: 37
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #836 on: Tue, 17 September 2013, 16:42:28 »
I just plain can't hit 'em. Especially the shift keys. My fingers are too fat LOL.

Do you refer to specific product using this solution? I'm asking because I'm not aware of any but would like to try it out if you know one. I think the easy of use depends on how it's done. I could image these micro keys being 1-2mm taller than normal ones; this way it wouldn't make it harder to reach for other normal keys and at the same time it should make it fairly easy to firmly actuate them.

Offline Piotr Dobrogost

  • Posts: 37
Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #837 on: Thu, 19 September 2013, 15:05:15 »
It's hard to tell, but my wrist is pretty much totally straight.

I observed interesting thing. After I've been typing for some time on angled keyboard (Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000) my hands prefer angled position (with regard to forearms) even with straight keyboard thus allowing my wrists to be straight. Maybe there's something similar going on here?

Offline hoggy

  • * Ergonomics Moderator
  • Posts: 1502
  • Location: Isle of Man
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #838 on: Thu, 19 September 2013, 15:15:37 »
I noticed the same thing a few years ago, it's still the case, but not quite as prounced as it was. Sadly, it cuts down the space available for all that biological stuff that makes your hands useful...
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline eviltobz

  • Posts: 95
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #839 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 08:28:56 »
I just found this thread the other day, have blasted through it, and feel that I should add my voice to those expressing their admiration of how awesome it seems to be shaping up to be. I'm certainly interested in the possibility of buying in on the beta. I've done some hacking on my Ergodox firmware, so may have something to add on that front.

If we buy the beta kits, will it then be easy enough for us to get the fancy bling backlighting stuff to add when that is ready?

Offline Thimplum

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1101
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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #840 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 08:39:49 »
I just plain can't hit 'em. Especially the shift keys. My fingers are too fat LOL.

Do you refer to specific product using this solution? I'm asking because I'm not aware of any but would like to try it out if you know one. I think the easy of use depends on how it's done. I could image these micro keys being 1-2mm taller than normal ones; this way it wouldn't make it harder to reach for other normal keys and at the same time it should make it fairly easy to firmly actuate them.

ooooh! I didn't mean micro keys like what you mean. I meant like some split boards that use itty-bitty shift keys.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline AcidFire

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 399
  • Location: Calgary AB
    • Axios - The Open Source Modular Ergonomic Keyboard
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #841 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 12:10:01 »
I just found this thread the other day, have blasted through it, and feel that I should add my voice to those expressing their admiration of how awesome it seems to be shaping up to be. I'm certainly interested in the possibility of buying in on the beta. I've done some hacking on my Ergodox firmware, so may have something to add on that front.

If we buy the beta kits, will it then be easy enough for us to get the fancy bling backlighting stuff to add when that is ready?

Yup, the beta kits will be basically pre production kits, meaning all the connectors for the bling backlighting stuff will be there so you can add it to the beta set just like a regular production kit.

I'd like to start by saying it's a fantastic project - I'm happy AcidFire started this and puts so much effort into it. Thank you very much!!!

I'm very curious to hear what you think about idea of extra, thin keys stuck in-between normal keys which I described here - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48615.0 Granted you like this idea, how difficult would it be to incorporate such keys in the Nexus? In one of the earlier posts you asked what we think of getting rid of side buttons; these micro keys could replace side keys increasing ergonomy of the keyboard at the same time. Also, as nice as center keys may seem to work, in practice I find them equally awkward to reach as other "normal" keys placed far from home positions. Trying different keyboards I came to the conclusion that a good key is the one which is nearby home positions and thus reducing the number of keys goes a long way towards increasing keyboard's ergonomy.

Would love to see Nexus using the idea of micro keys...
I'd like to see a visual example as I'm having a hard time picturing it. I wasn't looking to get rid of the side buttons, but to reduce their size to the standard 1u keys.

Hiya. I'm sort of new here, and found your thread recently while looking for an ergonomic keyboard; wrists have been giving me a bit of trouble and it seems like a good idea to head things off at the pass...

So, first of all, awesome work (extremely awesome). Favorites are:

- the keystation version with the extra buttons (or space for a trackball, perhaps) in the middle... but I'm constrained to finding something relatively portable
- the V-shaped 70% version... which is just gorgeous, but I think I would like to keep the split halves for tenting and adjustability reasons
- the version wrapped around the laptop, which very well could be the best thing ever.

A couple of questions/suggestions (for split versions mostly, but they sort of apply to anything):

1) If I understand correctly, you are planning on offering LEDs under each key for backlighting/etc. Will it be possible to have the keys change color so that all keys on a particular layer are lit the same color? As in: For layer 0, all keys are backlit white. For layer 1, keys that are unchanged from layer 0 (or unassigned) remain white, layer 1 mappings are changed to red. Layer 2 keys might be blue, but holdovers from layer 0 or unassigned will again remain white, etc.

Granted, the idea is not to be looking at the keyboard, but the monitor does not fill one's entire field of view, and the glow from the keyboard can serve as a cue (especially while learning) for what layer we are on and what features we have access to... this becomes more important when considering options for dynamic changes to the layout based on context information fed back from the computer... I would love to experiment with the keyboard as a sort of I/O device.


2) Is there any chance you could add a scroll wheel to each half (either near the index finger or the thumb, not sure which would be better)? I'd like to use a pair of scroll wheels (in combination with remapping scroll wheel functions based on currently selected layer, and a nearby LED for each wheel) to replace a subset of actions that are usually handled by the mouse and/or the arrow keys. These actions seem to fall into a few categories, roughly delimited as follows:

The first is area/pane selection. A lot of what the mouse ends up doing is clicking within some bound region of the screen; this can be file panes like in an ftp client, subsections of application interfaces, etc. I can see this as a type of action that could be replaced with the cursor controlled by either a scroll wheel (or two, one each for quick jogs in x, y), or a numpad-like arrangement of keys on a separate layer, with sections of the numpad corresponding to screen regions; hitting a key jumps the cursor to the desired region... faster than tab, and then minor adjustments can be made by moving the cursor with the scroll wheel.

The second is within-pane navigation. In some applications the arrows keys or pgup/pgdn/home/end are pretty good for getting around, but in others, they lack both the speed and precision of a scroll wheel. Moving the cursor around with the arrows keys is acceptable sometimes, but kind of a pain most of the time; especially if you are using the cursor or highlighted section of text as a bookmark while referencing something else. This could be set as another scroll wheel layer.

The third is text selection. Like many of you, I spend a lot of time in text editors. Some actions, like shift+home/end or shift+arrows are great for grabbing lines or blocks of text, but they leave something to be desired when navigating and selecting from single lines; too much tapping, and/or waiting for key repeats. Mapping scroll wheels to arrows, and/or shift+arrows on an alternate layer gives a much faster way of moving through text.

The fourth, and last one for the moment, is selecting fields within a document or page. Tab and shift tab are nice, but again, that ends up being a lot of tapping... bind them to scroll, and get around faster...

I think the addition of scroll wheels would eliminate some of the use cases that tend to force a switch to the mouse and break up the mostly-keyboard workflow that I (and probably others) are looking for. They are probably less expensive than trackballs, pointing sticks, or touchpads (and definitely less frustration-inducing than the third option), so they might be worth looking in to...


3) Are you planning to offer tent stands, (ideally with the degree markings that were on the single-unit adjustable angle/tent board) with the split version?

(Random suggestion, though kind of useless to me on account of "too big to travel with:" mount each half inside a partial sphere, then put that into a partial box (three faces, xy, yz, xz) with a spherical mounting, then you have a very adjustable glove thing... doesn't really have a huge advantage over more reasonable ways of adjusting the boards, but it would probably look neat...)

Anyway, keep up the amazing work and best regards!

(I've already signed up for the beta.)

1) This will be one of the standard LED modes, where the only ones that light up are the active on the layer. As for the multi color issue, the current boards only have the ability to display one color, however there may be a way to get two colors into each key, which I will be investigating before I do the next spin of the boards. Full RGB control will be available through a somewhat expensive add on (RGB LED's ain't cheap!) that will allow you to set a huge variety of colors & effects for each layer. I'm still working on making it cheaper, but right now it isn't a priority either. Once the beta kits go out I'll be putting more time into the Bluetooth & RGB add-ons.

2) It may be possible, but I won't be investigating it at this point, simply because it's additional R&D to make it both work in software & to impliment it in hardware. A good scroll wheel is surprisingly difficult to get going functionally, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility at this point. Thats the beauty of this modular set up, it's something that be added down the road for those who want it.

3) TBH it doesn't really make sense to offer it with the split set up since they can just be turned, and don't really require the markings. Because of the way the materials need to be set up mechanically, the height of the tenting is adjusted by different sets of fins. If I get to do some injection molding, I have a few ideas for an adjustable height set up, as well as travel friendly versions of the tenting stands.

The spherical set up sounds interesting, it's something I'll have to play with when the first revision has been completed and is out in the wild.


Speaking of development, I've been relatively quiet this week with updates because I've received all my electronics including my ARM development boards and I've been deep into development mode getting it all working together. I've already been able to get it to recognize as a composite device with HID & MSD, or as a straight HID device which my bios had no issues picking up. I'm currently modifying the existing libraries for the control chips for the arduino to get them to work on the platform, hopefully before the end of the weekend I should have some demo videos done of the new controllers at work.

Offline Demonmaker

  • Posts: 17
  • Location: isle of man
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #842 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 14:17:58 »
Speaking of development, I've been relatively quiet this week with updates because I've received all my electronics including my ARM development boards and I've been deep into development mode getting it all working together. I've already been able to get it to recognize as a composite device with HID & MSD, or as a straight HID device which my bios had no issues picking up. I'm currently modifying the existing libraries for the control chips for the arduino to get them to work on the platform, hopefully before the end of the weekend I should have some demo videos done of the new controllers at work.

Fantastic, cant wait.
Hows the kickstarter side coming along.

Offline AcidFire

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 399
  • Location: Calgary AB
    • Axios - The Open Source Modular Ergonomic Keyboard
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #843 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 14:47:28 »
The campaign is just about ready, I've outlined the first set of rewards, I'm just waiting to get the beta kits done and get input back before I put it online. Unfortunately delays for getting things like PCBs are slowly pushing back my deadlines, but I'm still pushing to try and get the kickstarter running by the end of October. It's all going to come down to how quickly I can get everything developed for it, not being able to work on it full time is definitely hurting my timetables.

Offline hoggy

  • * Ergonomics Moderator
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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #844 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 16:17:24 »
The campaign is just about ready, I've outlined the first set of rewards, I'm just waiting to get the beta kits done and get input back before I put it online. Unfortunately delays for getting things like PCBs are slowly pushing back my deadlines, but I'm still pushing to try and get the kickstarter running by the end of October. It's all going to come down to how quickly I can get everything developed for it, not being able to work on it full time is definitely hurting my timetables.

Don't worry about the timetable.  If you're waiting for stuff, that just means you've got time to iron your cape.

GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6288
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Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #845 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 14:09:05 »
Agreed. real keyboarders are willing to wait years if necessary.

Offline insilica

  • Posts: 259
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  • Keyboard Geeza
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #846 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 14:16:33 »
I hope PayPal doesn't throw a spanner in the works  :rolleyes:
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Offline linziyi

  • Posts: 386
  • The one with many questions
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #847 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 14:22:42 »
I can't use paypal :(. It would be ideal if we are able to give the payment using credit/debit cards.
Ducky DK9008G2 Pro

"Much to learn you still have" --Yoda


Offline Nico_h

  • Posts: 8
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #848 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 15:09:06 »
Kickstarter (US) edition use credit cards via amazon (at least it did last year). Paypal is too painful to use for me too.

Offline Nico_h

  • Posts: 8
Re: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Nexus [In Development]
« Reply #849 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 15:17:01 »
I though real keyboarder made their own keyboards? Like AcidFire, Dox, the guy with the 3d printed keyboards(suka on deskthority) the guy with the 40% keyboard, the guy behind the key64 ;-) there are so many inspiring keyboard makers on this forum I almost want to make my own.