Author Topic: AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Axios [In Development]  (Read 661076 times)

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Offline MOZ

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #500 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 07:35:05 »
Tis man knows what he's doing

Offline bueller

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #501 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 08:04:02 »
2) HID device (not Arduino compatible) - This bootloader would allow for the keyboard to work at start up, support nkro (hopefully), and would be for users who either have no interest in hacking their firmware, or are advanced enough to go with the straight C.
These would be the same CPU board based on the ATMEGA32u4, just like the Teensy 2.0.

If you're looking for a Teensy alternative I can't recommend the MattairTech boards highly enough. Really good quality and headers for every pin on the ATMega32u4 including USB for an external connector.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #502 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 08:32:33 »
Ew. Why use a broke out controller board when you can have the main controller chip itself smd soldered directly to the pcb? So much nicer.

Because I dun wanna SM solder the controller to the board. The diodes are enought thank you very much :)

I suggested the teensy because it's a popular board that a many people are familiar and comfortable with already. and the 3.0 because it's much more powerful with lots of space and a micro usb connector, which is much more durable than the mini usb.

SMDs are not that bad if you've got a good iron and lots of flux.

There are some excellent tutorials on youtube.
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Offline daerid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #503 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 08:40:16 »
Oh I can solder SMD easily enough. It's just tedious and time consuming.

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #504 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 09:56:51 »
Oh I can solder SMD easily enough. It's just tedious and time consuming.

Hmm...

What method do you use?
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Offline daerid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #505 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 14:24:11 »
I just use a small tip on my iron. I don't have the money for a hot air solution currently :-(

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #506 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 14:59:06 »
I just use a small tip on my iron.

lolwat

So...

You set the part on the the pads, and solder the leads one by one?

Props to you for that kind of patience.
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Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #507 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 19:12:39 »
AcidFire, what do you think of the ATmega128RFA1?

MCU and RF transceiver, all in one!
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Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #508 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 19:57:11 »
You saw Sparkfun's new product post didn't you :P
I've looked at various options for wireless, and I think for the time being I'll be sticking with the bluetooth, as it is the most complete option to appeal to the largest variety of devices. I do like the idea of something like the ATmega128, but getting into antenna design is such a precise science that for now, it really isn't worth it for me.

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #509 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 20:00:53 »
You saw Sparkfun's new product post didn't you :P
I've looked at various options for wireless, and I think for the time being I'll be sticking with the bluetooth, as it is the most complete option to appeal to the largest variety of devices. I do like the idea of something like the ATmega128, but getting into antenna design is such a precise science that for now, it really isn't worth it for me.

Good to know that I'm not the only Sparkfunian around here. I had already known about the 128RFA1, but the post reminded me  ;
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Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #510 on: Sat, 10 August 2013, 03:34:51 »
Got the chance to do a new cut with the counter sunk screws that I picked up. I have to say, I definitely think it's an improvement over the socket head screws.


Offline Glod

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #511 on: Sat, 10 August 2013, 03:38:33 »
looks really good

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #512 on: Sat, 10 August 2013, 07:14:07 »
Got the chance to do a new cut with the counter sunk screws that I picked up. I have to say, I definitely think it's an improvement over the socket head screws.
Show Image

Show Image


That looks pretty cool.

Where are you getting your caps from?
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Offline Glod

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #513 on: Sat, 10 August 2013, 12:07:07 »

Offline Demonmaker

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #514 on: Sat, 10 August 2013, 18:35:49 »
Quite simply beautiful.
Definitely interested in this as a product.

on a side note Kickstarter for canada    http://www.kickstarter.com/canada
Creators in Canada can start building projects now!
(You'll be able to launch your project starting September 9th.)

Offline BlueByLiquid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #515 on: Sat, 10 August 2013, 22:18:47 »
I just use a small tip on my iron.

lolwat

So...

You set the part on the the pads, and solder the leads one by one?

Props to you for that kind of patience.

I use solder paste, put it down on both of the connection points (I do this for like 20 of them because it is faster)  then use electric tweezers to put the diodes down. Then just touch the solder iron to the diode pins. It will almost instantly bead up and make a solid connection. I have a pretty wide soldering iron and it works find.

My heat gun put out too much air for these diodes so I had to come up with this solution. It is ridiculously fast. On the ergodox it took almost no time once I figured this out. 

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #516 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 00:16:18 »
That looks pretty cool.

Where are you getting your caps from?
my guess is http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capsinventory.php + Massdrop set
Actually, with the exception of some blanks I bought from the classifieds, everything has come from SP so far.

I use solder paste, put it down on both of the connection points (I do this for like 20 of them because it is faster)  then use electric tweezers to put the diodes down. Then just touch the solder iron to the diode pins. It will almost instantly bead up and make a solid connection. I have a pretty wide soldering iron and it works find.

My heat gun put out too much air for these diodes so I had to come up with this solution. It is ridiculously fast. On the ergodox it took almost no time once I figured this out. 
Another way to do this is to use an electric skillet, there's lots of guides online as to how to do it.


Quite simply beautiful.
Definitely interested in this as a product.

on a side note Kickstarter for canada    http://www.kickstarter.com/canada
Creators in Canada can start building projects now!
(You'll be able to launch your project starting September 9th.)
I've been signed up since they made the announcement in June. I got an email a couple days ago that the ability to create a project was available, and I've already built the majority of it. Now I just need to get some more photo + video to fill out the story about it and it'll be good to go.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #517 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 00:23:13 »
Another way to do this is to use an electric skillet, there's lots of guides online as to how to do it.

Ok, that's awesome.  I didn't know about that.  I just found this how to on it.  Makes me want to try it.

Offline wesleyh

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #518 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 03:52:17 »
AcidFire, just wondering what you meant by:

"That being said, after the initial launch I'll be looking into trackball/trackpad/trackpoint options for both center mount & the thumbs."

Do you mean after the beta launch, or do you mean this will be an entirely different product? And will people who get v1 be able to upgrade to v2 (with trackball)?



Offline MOZ

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #519 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 04:07:47 »
From what I understand the design is very modular, there is no v1 or v2 at this stage. Once Beta is done and the final design completed, he will work on new "modules" which can be attached later on in previous beta version as well unless there is a drastic change (Which is unlikely).

Offline Demonmaker

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #520 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 06:11:03 »
Quite simply beautiful.
Definitely interested in this as a product.

on a side note Kickstarter for canada    http://www.kickstarter.com/canada
Creators in Canada can start building projects now!
(You'll be able to launch your project starting September 9th.)
I've been signed up since they made the announcement in June. I got an email a couple days ago that the ability to create a project was available, and I've already built the majority of it. Now I just need to get some more photo + video to fill out the story about it and it'll be good to go.

Thats great news, I'll be waiting with anticipation, thank you for the fast update.

Offline listokei

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #521 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 09:35:39 »
Looks great!!!
 Good job!!!!!!

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #522 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 12:26:32 »
AcidFire, just wondering what you meant by:

"That being said, after the initial launch I'll be looking into trackball/trackpad/trackpoint options for both center mount & the thumbs."

Do you mean after the beta launch, or do you mean this will be an entirely different product? And will people who get v1 be able to upgrade to v2 (with trackball)?
From what I understand the design is very modular, there is no v1 or v2 at this stage. Once Beta is done and the final design completed, he will work on new "modules" which can be attached later on in previous beta version as well unless there is a drastic change (Which is unlikely).
mohitgarg nailed it. The design is very modular, for exactly this reason. I hate having to rebuy something completely just to get a new feature, or a part that I need. I blame growing up with Lego for this addiction to getting exactly what I want lol.

Thats great news, I'll be waiting with anticipation, thank you for the fast update.
No problem, and trust me, it's killing me to be patient as posible to get everything right, instead of rushing to get it up.

Looks great!!!
 Good job!!!!!!
Thanks :D

Offline JPG

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #523 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 12:30:19 »
Hey I got 2 questions here:

1. The ergodox and the ergogp seems to both have more keys than really necessary. The question is aimed to all of you using either of these, do you think that many keys are unnecessary or do most of you think they are either usefull or not in the way anyway?

2. I know it would be a challenge somewhat, but anyone thought about integration a small trackball (like less than an inch wide) near or part of the thumb cluster? Adding a trackball directly accessible to the thumb looks awesome in my mind! With it, it would remove all need to move the hands at all!

I don't have an ergodox and I am still not 100% sure to make the move yet, but I am more and more appealed to such a thing so I wanted some input from those using it on a regular basis about these 2 things!

Thx for your comment  :D
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Offline daerid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #524 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 12:51:02 »
I have quite a few unused keys on my ErgoDox, but they're not in the way and I'd rather have them than not.

Just wish media keys worked in windows....

Offline JPG

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #525 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 17:53:57 »
I have quite a few unused keys on my ErgoDox, but they're not in the way and I'd rather have them than not.

Just wish media keys worked in windows....

They don't? My Filco has media keys and they work, there must be a way to send the right signal/command since the keyboard is programmable.
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Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #526 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 18:43:38 »
Hey I got 2 questions here:

1. The ergodox and the ergogp seems to both have more keys than really necessary. The question is aimed to all of you using either of these, do you think that many keys are unnecessary or do most of you think they are either usefull or not in the way anyway?

2. I know it would be a challenge somewhat, but anyone thought about integration a small trackball (like less than an inch wide) near or part of the thumb cluster? Adding a trackball directly accessible to the thumb looks awesome in my mind! With it, it would remove all need to move the hands at all!

I don't have an ergodox and I am still not 100% sure to make the move yet, but I am more and more appealed to such a thing so I wanted some input from those using it on a regular basis about these 2 things!

Thx for your comment  :D

1. Unfortunately, I can only speak to what I have planned, as opposed to experience with it. As a programmer, I see so much extra functionality with the extra keys, especially with the ability to expand when I need more for macros, special functions, etc etc.

2. As I've mentioned a few times already, I agree with this 100% and it'll be one of the first expansions I implement once the core project is ready.

Offline JPG

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #527 on: Sun, 11 August 2013, 19:24:06 »
Hey I got 2 questions here:

1. The ergodox and the ergogp seems to both have more keys than really necessary. The question is aimed to all of you using either of these, do you think that many keys are unnecessary or do most of you think they are either usefull or not in the way anyway?

2. I know it would be a challenge somewhat, but anyone thought about integration a small trackball (like less than an inch wide) near or part of the thumb cluster? Adding a trackball directly accessible to the thumb looks awesome in my mind! With it, it would remove all need to move the hands at all!

I don't have an ergodox and I am still not 100% sure to make the move yet, but I am more and more appealed to such a thing so I wanted some input from those using it on a regular basis about these 2 things!

Thx for your comment  :D

1. Unfortunately, I can only speak to what I have planned, as opposed to experience with it. As a programmer, I see so much extra functionality with the extra keys, especially with the ability to expand when I need more for macros, special functions, etc etc.

2. As I've mentioned a few times already, I agree with this 100% and it'll be one of the first expansions I implement once the core project is ready.

Thx for the info, and sry, haven't read all 18 pages, but nice to hear!

 :thumb:
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Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #528 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:08:19 »
So this is the design change I'm looking at for the thumb, thoughts?

The red is the change to a 45 degree angle, and bringing it closer into the body.

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #529 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:11:51 »
So this is the design change I'm looking at for the thumb, thoughts?
Show Image

The red is the change to a 45 degree angle, and bringing it closer into the body.

I dunno...

I don't think that that would be as comfortable.
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Offline linziyi

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #530 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:31:14 »
If you are referring to the red outlined position, I think most people would have difficulty reaching the bottom keys.....
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Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #531 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:33:49 »
If you are referring to the red outlined position, I think most people would have difficulty reaching the bottom keys.....

I agree.
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Offline Demonmaker

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #532 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:36:26 »
Perhaps both, using a ribbon / cable connecting to the thumb pad part to the main section, have it adjustable instead of set, just a thought.  I'm not tech minded enough to know if thats a viable solution.

Offline daerid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #533 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:51:05 »
I have quite a few unused keys on my ErgoDox, but they're not in the way and I'd rather have them than not.

Just wish media keys worked in windows....

They don't? My Filco has media keys and they work, there must be a way to send the right signal/command since the keyboard is programmable.

Currently, no. Not sure why, haven't delved into the source far enough.

Offline BlueByLiquid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #534 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:55:56 »
I think the red would be better but I have long hands and that puts my thumbs farther down. Likely something in the middle is the best.

Offline Thimplum

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #535 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 16:58:57 »
I have quite a few unused keys on my ErgoDox, but they're not in the way and I'd rather have them than not.

Just wish media keys worked in windows....

They don't? My Filco has media keys and they work, there must be a way to send the right signal/command since the keyboard is programmable.

Currently, no. Not sure why, haven't delved into the source far enough.

I don't get it.

You send 0x80 for volume up, 0x81 for volume down, ect,.
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Offline daerid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #536 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 17:36:00 »
I don't get it.

You send 0x80 for volume up, 0x81 for volume down, ect,.

Neither do I. It's a mystereeeeeeee

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #537 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 17:59:19 »
Well I've heard the feed back, and I'm definitely going to play with it a bit more. I had been looking at an adjustable design, but (for now) I don't think it'll work without making it thicker, which is something I don't want to do.

Offline vatin

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #538 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 21:22:07 »
So this is the design change I'm looking at for the thumb, thoughts?
Show Image

The red is the change to a 45 degree angle, and bringing it closer into the body.

It seemed you need to twist your wrist more to follow the pitch.
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Offline Loligagger

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #539 on: Mon, 12 August 2013, 22:12:46 »
Agreed that the original angle for the thumb cluster seems more natural.

Also, any possibility for the shorthand case (like the first case prototype) as an option for the final board?

Offline anotherjunkie

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #540 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 14:35:39 »
So, I know I'm a day late, but in terms of the design change I have to agree with linziyi -- the change to the red outline seems as though it will make the red keys less reachable. I know that for me they would be  downright painful. It puts the smaller keys in a position that makes that joint probe to roll when you hit them with your thumb.

As for the additional keys, I would much rather have them than not. I love to be able to program macros to override those "extra" keys, whether those macros are OS or program specific. Again, this is largely related to my own needs and my previous inability to stretch to hit key-combos on my own, but so long as the extra keys are out of the way of my normal typing, I see having them included as a bonus feature of the keyboard -- I don't have to take away functionality from existing keys that I DO use to assign my macros, because Ithese extras were included.

Offline BlueByLiquid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #541 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 14:40:32 »
Just my 2 cents is people really need to look at the inset with this design and feel if they like it. It is much different than a flat design and we should probably make a paper mockup so people can see which they like. Which ever option is right I think it will surprise you how different it feels when it is angled and when the keys are inset like the ergoGP does.

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #542 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 14:52:04 »
Just my 2 cents is people really need to look at the inset with this design and feel if they like it. It is much different than a flat design and we should probably make a paper mockup so people can see which they like. Which ever option is right I think it will surprise you how different it feels when it is angled and when the keys are inset like the ergoGP does.

Blue nailed it. The inset definitely alters how your thumb sits, hence why I've been reviewing the design. I'm working on a splinter of that design that is a balance between where it is now, and where the red box was. Unfortunately I had to deal w/ a rogue server admin last night for a group that I play online with and didn't get the chance to laser anything, but I will be doing it all tonight. What I may do is include a couple different options in the beta kit, and see how you guys like them.

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #543 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 15:01:37 »
Also, I forgot to ask, for those of you interested in hacking the hardware side, should I keep the pin headers that break out the LED & switch matrices?

Offline BlueByLiquid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #544 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 15:15:43 »
Also, I forgot to ask, for those of you interested in hacking the hardware side, should I keep the pin headers that break out the LED & switch matrices?

Maybe I'm missing something but why would you remove them?

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #545 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 15:31:13 »
Mainly because they're there from a hackibility side, they aren't required for the normal operation of the board and they require extra routing and what not. I'm not saying they're a bad thing, more just trying to gauge interest.

Offline BlueByLiquid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #546 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 15:39:43 »
I for one really want them as backlighting (and writing custom code for it) was one of the great interests of mine. I didn't know you were thinking about cutting it. :(

We should still be able to add the RGb board later right as it will be a separate board right?

Offline MOZ

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #547 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 16:38:44 »
Keep them.

Offline AcidFire

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #548 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 20:29:35 »
No no no, I'm not removing the backlighting, just the breakout headers that would allow you to use external electronics to read the switches & control the LEDs.

Offline BlueByLiquid

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Re: AcidFire's custom split keyboard - ErgoGP
« Reply #549 on: Tue, 13 August 2013, 20:35:19 »
No no no, I'm not removing the backlighting, just the breakout headers that would allow you to use external electronics to read the switches & control the LEDs.

Ahhh. I figured I was missing something because I didn't think you would remove that. I didn't know you were planning on doing that. It actually might get the Arduino community on board(Which is pretty darn big these days for your KS if you could show that you could easily control the LEDs using an Ardunio. It if isn't lots of work I think it would really open up a bigger market I think. I think the Ardunio community would probably come up with some insaine ideas for what todo with it.

In fact my fully addressable LED kinses contoured board was made entirely with an ardunio (colordunio).