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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: Darth WTF on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:42:21

Title: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:42:21

Hello everyone, this is the public IC for a 66% keyboard for ISO AEK II keycaps.

For a long time the PBT dyesub caps of the AEK II have been a staple for people looking for a nice alps set with good modern compatibility. Unfortunately this isn't the case in ISO-land, as Apple, true to their "think different" motto went with some questionable choices on the ISO variant. The AEK II ISO caps come with .25 wider leftside mods and .25 slimmer rightside mods with the alphas shifting accordingly. Up to now not a single custom board has supported this unconventional design decision.

This changed last year when westfoxtrot of Cablecar Designs created the Cyclops, a clever 66% pcb for Apple's ISO layout for which I ended up designing a case. It initially ran as small private GB (you might have seen one of the specimen being built by Jae on Topclack), however thanks to the fine people of mykeyboard.eu the board will have a public round.

Presenting the Borsdorf, named after Germany's oldest Apple cultivar.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431112542882889741/617038871309582356/DSCF1868_edited.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YaQDzzw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NPne3sK.jpg)
(Boards from the public round will not have the Founders Edition engraving)

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431112542882889741/617038871372496909/DSCF1872_edited.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431112542882889741/617038867891224581/DSCF1873_edited.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ewRfItZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aBjMp3z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b9QTEpB.jpg)
(Apple Sticker not included)

Specs:

anodized aluminium Case made in Belgium by Salvun, tailored to AEKII ISO keycaps
5° typing angle
8-point top mount with plastic washers
QMK compatible STM32-based PCB by Cablecardesigns and Cutie Club, with USB-C, optional inswitch capslock indicator and split rshift support (this requires a custom plate, files will be available)
Carbon Fiber Plate
Layout:
(https://i.imgur.com/WjQMqRg.png)

Colors:

https://forms.gle/4VQGHZ4cvGV8fBYPA

FAQ:

ne ANSI avail? Soft no. You'd need a different plate (which I can gladly provide), a second 2.25 shift key (which I cannot provide, Gabbcaps might however) and a different PCB.
Why not? For one there's already wonderfully designed AEKII ANSI customs (for example Ai03's Lunar and Lunar II) made by wonderful people on which's toes I'd hate to step. Also the whole project was meant to cater to the kooky weird ISO people who want to use nice Alps PBT dyesubs.
Will this work for MX? Hard no, the PCB will sit lower, things will NOT fit. Also it'll look goofy, trust me.
Will cyclops PCBs with mini-USB fit this case? Unfortunately no, the second iteration is explicitly designed for USB-C.
This is cool does anyone make AEK profile artisan caps? You're in luck, Gabbzan of Gabcaps does just that and has done so already.
How much will this cost? Unfortunately the pricepoint is not yet final, there are still some minor things to work out before I can be confident in that regard.
I have a question that's not listed here. You can reach everyone involved with the project on mykeyboard's discord at https://discord.gg/m6nggAv (https://discord.gg/m6nggAv), the channel is in the "Keyboard Projects" category

Thanks to

Max/Westfoxtrot: The idea, the layout, the PCB and so much more
Sierra and MiniNinja for their splendid work on the PCB revisions
Salvun, not only for the machining but also for his great manufacturing input
Egla and Kwerdenker for their excellent photos you can see in this IC
and many many more

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: would? on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:43:45

Im not usually into the 660 layout but this is NEAT!!

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: ilikerustoo on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:48:44

I love it and I want it

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: toastyAU on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:50:20

this is insanely cool. i love 660 and i love aek. way too excited to see more.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Mcnos on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:56:14

I love this case design.

ISO though.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Puree on Sun, 03 November 2019, 17:05:56

The board catched my interested since i saw the raw one at the cologne meetup...

Happy to see the IC for this case, interested for sure ;)

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Sun, 03 November 2019, 17:50:31

Build stream of one of my founders edition boards. Second one coming in a couple of weeks with Salmon alps for anyone interested!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: ttom on Sun, 03 November 2019, 17:56:38

i think this is really cool, definitely gonna keep my eye on this and watch jae's build in the meantime

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 03 November 2019, 19:45:05

wow this board sucks

pls man I just wanna use my NOS orange alps and AZERTY set I've had waiting for a year

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: senter on Sun, 03 November 2019, 19:50:24

This is the most beautiful ALPS board I've ever seen.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: mydens on Sun, 03 November 2019, 20:00:36

So the board will only work with those keycaps?

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Mon, 04 November 2019, 02:36:23

Quote from: mydens on Sun, 03 November 2019, 20:00:36

So the board will only work with those keycaps?

Yes, or regional variants. The Apple AEKII caps are not standard sizes on the left hand modified column nor the right hand either. As such this board will only work with ISO AEKII caps; although there are a multitude of languages that support this; UK, German, Greek etc; depending on what you need.

It won’t work with other alps caps; in fact the board and PCB was designed to make use of these caps in a 660 layout.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 04 November 2019, 10:10:49

This will support typical M0118 caps? If so I'm 100% in.

Also, any chance of an alu plate instead of carbon fiber?

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Mon, 04 November 2019, 17:39:45

Quote

This will support typical M0118 caps? If so I'm 100% in.

Also, any chance of an alu plate instead of carbon fiber?

Sadly the M0118 uses yet another layout, a vastly different one when you get into the nitty gritty of it. This board supports only the AEKII ISO Keycaps.
Aluminium plates are not planned for production on our end (it'd complicate things as well as driving up the price) however all the required plate files will be publically available, I used a laserboost aluminium plate in my prototype as well initially and it worked without flaw.
With that said I and many others did prefer CF which prompted the decision to go CF only on the GB.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: ihalatch on Mon, 04 November 2019, 18:14:08

I'm very interested in getting one.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: senter on Mon, 04 November 2019, 18:56:21

I'm interested in getting an ANSI version if it's available in the GB. The 2.25u shift is not a big problem.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Tue, 05 November 2019, 11:03:48

The main ANSI roadblock so far is the PCB and my ideals, I might consider for the future but as of now it's not planned.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: tex_live_utility on Tue, 05 November 2019, 12:17:19

Quote from: Darth WTF on Mon, 04 November 2019, 17:39:45

Quote
This will support typical M0118 caps? If so I'm 100% in.

Also, any chance of an alu plate instead of carbon fiber?

Sadly the M0118 uses yet another layout, a vastly different one when you get into the nitty gritty of it. This board supports only the AEKII ISO Keycaps.
Aluminium plates are not planned for production on our end (it'd complicate things as well as driving up the price) however all the required plate files will be publically available, I used a laserboost aluminium plate in my prototype as well initially and it worked without flaw.
With that said I and many others did prefer CF which prompted the decision to go CF only on the GB.

OK thanks for clarifying. So this only supports ISO variants of the M3501, correct?

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Tue, 05 November 2019, 16:52:20

correct

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 05 November 2019, 18:12:58

Quote from: tex_live_utility on Mon, 04 November 2019, 10:10:49

This will support typical M0118 caps? If so I'm 100% in.

Check out the ASK55 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101024.0) for that!

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: kakan on Fri, 08 November 2019, 15:52:08

Got to many AEK II? Guess it's time to find them a new home.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: jordanpoch98 on Tue, 26 November 2019, 11:11:19

I would be in! please make a pcb only option :P

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: vegs on Wed, 27 November 2019, 06:50:26

This might be what gets me into alps

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: TeacherGeek on Sat, 30 November 2019, 05:42:12

Seems good. Would want ansi though

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: MachineTeaching on Sat, 30 November 2019, 12:38:16

Definitely interested! Wanted to hack up and turn one of my AEKs into a 65% board since basically forever!

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Fri, 13 December 2019, 09:21:21

Quote from: jordanpoch98 on Tue, 26 November 2019, 11:11:19

I would be in! please make a pcb only option :P

The Mini-USB version of the PCB is open source already, you can find it here: https://github.com/westfoxtrot/cyclops_pcb

*edit The second revision with USB-C will be available during GB as well, I completely forgot to mention

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: jH0Ni on Fri, 03 January 2020, 03:03:39

Definitely interested. What kind of mounting system does it use?

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Sat, 04 January 2020, 08:31:27

Quote from: jH0Ni on Fri, 03 January 2020, 03:03:39

Definitely interested. What kind of mounting system does it use?

8 point top-mount with nylon washers

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: skmn on Wed, 15 January 2020, 06:10:29

Looks good, hopefully this reaches GB stage. Would love to try diving in the alps world.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: jH0Ni on Mon, 02 March 2020, 08:33:01

Any news on this?

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Thu, 19 March 2020, 11:18:27

Quote from: jH0Ni on Mon, 02 March 2020, 08:33:01

Any news on this?

Yeah GB should be starting soon, next week or so.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Carcha on Tue, 24 March 2020, 09:51:17

Just to pitch in, I'm also very much looking forward to this!

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: hkiri on Sat, 28 March 2020, 06:11:43

Quote from: Darth WTF on Thu, 19 March 2020, 11:18:27

Quote from: jH0Ni on Mon, 02 March 2020, 08:33:01
Any news on this?

Yeah GB should be starting soon, next week or so.

🤔

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Kallus on Thu, 02 April 2020, 15:51:55

Sorry if im necro'ing but is this GB still happening or is it delayed because of the corona situation?

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Thu, 09 April 2020, 11:22:23

Absolutely not necroing, I've been a bit negligent of the GH thread admittedly.

We had a bit of a holdup with the CF supplier and getting quotes from them. GB should kick off on mykeyboard.eu on Monday. Sorry for the delays.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Kallus on Thu, 09 April 2020, 11:28:18

Oh boy am i excited for this

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: jordanpoch98 on Mon, 13 April 2020, 11:50:17

Quite sad that I won't be able to order this in America! Good luck on GB though!

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: huey on Mon, 13 April 2020, 11:56:36

Quote from: jordanpoch98 on Mon, 13 April 2020, 11:50:17

Quite sad that I won't be able to order this in America! Good luck on GB though!

Order and message mykeeb, they will ship internationally. It's going to be spendy though.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 13 April 2020, 14:35:45

Ne non-Euro proxy avail :'(

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Dolas on Mon, 13 April 2020, 15:34:29

+1 for US proxy

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: BigBabyJesus on Mon, 13 April 2020, 15:59:17

:thumb:

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Darth WTF on Tue, 14 April 2020, 12:09:32

So yeah, the GB is live on mykeyboard already, I'm STOKED, the GB thread however is still stuck in approval limbo. As for the US people, as mentioned above, contact NecromanX directly.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: LetoDaleko on Tue, 14 April 2020, 16:14:25

Looks great, very curious to see more.

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: sendpie on Wed, 15 April 2020, 20:08:22

literally stoked if there was an ansi one in the near future

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: NorrittMTG on Sat, 18 April 2020, 08:36:24

really excited about this and just joined GB via MyKeyboard.EU.

I have a couple of questions:
Am i better off using the stabs from the M3501 or grabbing some Matais hook and loops?
Secondly, seeing as it's QMK i could use the locking switch from the M3501 for caps lock right?

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: Cods on Sat, 25 April 2020, 18:02:23

Interested!

Edit: Oh. Perhaps I should have read the thread more thoroughly. €300. I’m playing out of my league!

Title: Re: [IC] Borsdorf - 66% AEKII ISO
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Sun, 26 April 2020, 17:37:03

Quote from: Darth WTF on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:42:21

FAQ:
ne ANSI avail? Soft no. You'd need a different plate (which I can gladly provide), a second 2.25 shift key (which I cannot provide, Gabbcaps might however) and a different PCB.

Been looking for an ANSI AEK ~65% board for a bit. You mention that you could provide an ANSI plate. Are you talking about a digital file that we would have someone cut a plate for us? Secondly, you mention that we'd need a different PCB. This isn't something that you'd be providing, right? (Where would we obtain such a PCB for an ANSI build?)

Quote from: Darth WTF on Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:42:21

Why not? For one there's already wonderfully designed AEKII ANSI customs (for example Ai03's Lunar and Lunar II) made by wonderful people on which's toes I'd hate to step. Also the whole project was meant to cater to the kooky weird ISO people who want to use nice Alps PBT dyesubs.

Much love/respect to ai03's Lunar, but that was only ~50 units, and he's said he has no future plans for another 65% Lunar. Moreover, the Lunar II is definitive 60%. SO, I can't imagine I'm the only one who would like an ANSI 65% AEK. Might it be worth for you to offer it?