[IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

Thanks djkib - if you are out of the US it would save some funds if you could do some proxying in your region/country.

An update - I was just able to order 5 used 1391401s for those who prefer to order original used IBM keycaps over Unicomp caps.  The cost will likely be about the same as the Unicomp caps.  Please let me know if you are interested in ordering original used caps with your F77/F62.

[mobbo]

I'm interested in the original caps.

[Elrick]

I'm interested in the original caps.

Same here....... 

[SixtyLife]

I'm ok with bringing my own caps, but just worried that getting the board shipped without caps might damage some of the springs that could get caught no the top lip of the barrel and packing material

anyways, just want to say thank you Ellipse for organizing this. Looking forward to this more than any other GBs right now!

[darkspider]

I prefer the newers. I think some caps I want to order, for instance ISO-sized left shift, cannot be gotten from the original Model Ms.

[Ellipse]

codingCPA - my custom styrofoam packaging is designed so that the springs will not be crushed and the keys will not be pressed in transit.  The boxes will also be double walled, thick cardboard.

Anyone can also ship their cleaned keys to me so the F77/F62s arrive to you fully assembled.

Here is a re-post of the design rendering:

[SixtyLife]

codingCPA - my custom styrofoam packaging is designed so that the springs will not be crushed and the keys will not be pressed in transit.  The boxes will also be double walled, thick cardboard.

Anyone can also ship their cleaned keys to me so the F77/F62s arrive to you fully assembled.

Here is a re-post of the design rendering:
(Attachment Link)

looks like you've taken everything into consideration. really excited to see the final product. thanks again.

[Vizir]

Not sure how the hhkb layout will work with new or old caps, but I'll take the one which works best.

Edit: can you post your shipping address, I have some spares I think would work, but I will not have time before the weekend to check if there's enough for 1 keyboard. Also, I have a spare f controller still sitting around and I doubt I'll have use for it after this. If you have better use for it, it's yours. Or maybe it can be used in this GB. I won't ask any price for it.

[Elrick]

codingCPA - my custom styrofoam packaging is designed so that the springs will not be crushed and the keys will not be pressed in transit.  The boxes will also be double walled, thick cardboard.

Anyone can also ship their cleaned keys to me so the F77/F62s arrive to you fully assembled.

Here is a re-post of the design rendering:
(Attachment Link)

Unbelievable, getting a fully fitted customized package for the MOST significant keyboard built in our times.

This is slowly becoming one of the BEST things to occur here on Geekhack  .

[romevi]

This is just unbelievable, I have to admit. This went from a simple interest check in late June to a fully fledged keyboard reproduction. At first I thought it was just a wish by someone who wants to get more Model Fs into people's hands, but soon realized this guy is f'n serious.

This may be the best product reproduction by a single person, or at least small party. Forget crowd-funding; Ellipse is going to make this whether you order one or not.

[Dodgy]

Did invoices already go out? I'm worried I may have missed that in my email- want to make sure I definitely don't miss out on this one!!! 

[romevi]

Did invoices already go out? I'm worried I may have missed that in my email- want to make sure I definitely don't miss out on this one!!! 

Yeah, dude. People are already starting to get theirs.



Nah, just kidding. The final product hasn't even been shown. Invoices probably won't start going out until next month.   

[Dodgy]

Ha thanks- been out of the loop these days, work is keeping me under a rock. Stomach sank when I read your first paragraph haha.

[ryahirv]

Thanks djkib - if you are out of the US it would save some funds if you could do some proxying in your region/country.

An update - I was just able to order 5 used 1391401s for those who prefer to order original used IBM keycaps over Unicomp caps.  The cost will likely be about the same as the Unicomp caps.  Please let me know if you are interested in ordering original used caps with your F77/F62.

Ok. I changed my tune.

I too prefer original caps

[potatowire]

I'm interested in the original caps.

Same here....... 

Me too...

[Ellipse]

The barrel and flipper molds are finished - here are the very first brand new injection molded production samples of barrels and flippers from the new molds!  Once the cases are made, the F62 and F77 prototypes will be just about finished!



Also I received the 5 1391401 Model M keyboards today to be used for keys for those who prefer original keycaps on their F62/F77.

Anyone who wants one to five Model M 1391401 keyboards without keys/stabilizers/the cable can have them for $30 each plus shipping, or $35 with the SDL to PS/2 cable.  The recycler tested them but I am selling them as uncleaned/untested.

First come, first served with these keyboards. 

[fanpeople]

This is really coming along nicely, I can't wait to see the finished product. 

[SixtyLife]

awesome progress Ellipse. will you be testing out the pcb with the new flippers soon? or are you still waiting on springs? looking forward to your updates!

[Ellipse]

Nope no testing yet. I expect to receive the fully assembled prototypes in a few weeks, then I will fully test them.

[darkspider]

Very excited! These parts look very gorgeous 

[Elrick]

Nope no testing yet. I expect to receive the fully assembled prototypes in a few weeks, then I will fully test them.

Can't wait to finally see it assembled and working.

Making a Model-F from scratch is extremely time consuming because there is much more to creating a functional copy of the old IBMs other than the standard soldering of CherryMX switches.

Just let us all know when you finally have it working, plus when you post all the pics, I suspect every Geekhacker will be throwing money at you for these babies  .

[Melvang]

Is there any chance I can buy some barrels and flippers on their own?

[U47]

Also I received the 5 1391401 Model M keyboards today to be used for keys for those who prefer original keycaps on their F62/F77.

Anyone who wants one to five Model M 1391401 keyboards without keys/stabilizers/the cable can have them for $30 each plus shipping, or $35 with the SDL to PS/2 cable.  The recycler tested them but I am selling them as uncleaned/untested.

First come, first served with these keyboards.

Can I dibs one of the Model Ms? Actually, is it possible to dibs it along with the keys (to go on an F62) or are the keys all spoken for?

[Techno Trousers]

Is there any chance I can buy some barrels and flippers on their own?

He's said yes to this before. I think we'll be able to buy extras of any parts being created for this project, including the custom fit boxes!

[Ellipse]

U47 at this point I am just selling the Model M keyboards without keys or stabilizer inserts.  I have up to 5 available.  One appears to have the extra posts on the top inner barrel frame that can support a Trackpoint, if anyone is interested.

[Air tree]

Interested in one of the model M boards for the caps.

[livingspeedbump]

Really excited to see that sample unit after it arrives. Definitely one of the more ambitious projects I've ever seen around the community.

[Ellipse]

I expect to start production within days of starting to accept orders (mid November?) so there is no delay. First orders in, first to ship.

The xwhatsit Model F USB controller is included/installed. Solenoids require the xwhatsit solenoid driver, currently available from DT member orihalcon. With this driver, the controller will support a solenoid to my knowledge.

And as long as it is a matter of moving springs and caps any layout should be configurable at the factory. Please let me know the requested layout specifics when ordering.

[darkspider]

The xwhatsit Model F USB controller is included/installed. Solenoids require the xwhatsit solenoid driver, currently available from DT member orihalcon. With this driver, the controller will support a solenoid to my knowledge.

Ordering solenoid driver is in option? Or should we contact him directly if we want?

[Melvang]

The xwhatsit Model F USB controller is included/installed. Solenoids require the xwhatsit solenoid driver, currently available from DT member orihalcon. With this driver, the controller will support a solenoid to my knowledge.

Ordering solenoid driver is in option? Or should we contact him directly if we want?

Solenoid driver is only required for using a solenoid.  The solenoid is optional.  It adds more click, and haptic feedback.  The driver board is required to step the 5vdc from USB to 9vdc for a moment to actually cycle the solenoid.  The xwhatsit firmware fully supports it in the GUI.

[Vizir]

So you will we be able to order the solenoid driver from you? And where can we source a solenoid?

[Ellipse]

Nope - the solenoid drivers are not available through me - pls contact orihalcon for those.  No idea where to find solenoids - you can probably find an IBM one from a 3178 or similar keyboard.

[darkspider]

So you will we be able to order the solenoid driver from you? And where can we source a solenoid?

In my knowledge, almost all of keyboards from IBM DisplayWriter and DisplayTerminal have working solenoid.

Ellipse-Thank you for the information. I'll contact him.

[Vizir]

hmm, now to source a solenoid...

is this the correct solenoid? http://www.typewriters.com/1393901.html

or perhaps this? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015

[darkspider]

hmm, now to source a solenoid...

is this the correct solenoid? http://www.typewriters.com/1393901.html

or perhaps this? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015

I once heard that xwhatsit saying sparkfun's is not good for the solenoid driver supplying 9vdc because its resistance is not enough to run it safely. And he also said its throw of 4mm  is too much to run it without delay.

[Vizir]

And this one? http://www.typewriters.com/1339328.html

[Ellipse]

Here's another photo just of the first production Model F barrels from the new mold (see my earlier post for the flippers). 

[alienman82]

Here's another photo just of the first production Model F barrels from the new mold (see my earlier post for the flippers). 

(Attachment Link)

Awesome breh!

[Muffinbottoms]

Here's another photo just of the first production Model F barrels from the new mold (see my earlier post for the flippers). 

(Attachment Link)

It's a good thing this is gonna take some time, gives my wallet to charge up for this big boy

You're a swell guy for undertaking this great mission Ellipse! 

[Air tree]

I can't wait to hear some thoughts on the board once it's all put together in it's full glory.

I thought at the beginning this was just some keyboard nerds pipe dream. 

[Elrick]

I can't wait to hear some thoughts on the board once it's all put together in it's full glory.

I thought at the beginning this was just some keyboard nerds pipe dream. 

For some time wasters it will always be a pipe dream but not in Ellipse's World.

He hasn't got time to waste hence better create something REAL rather than being another lying scumbag, out to rip everyone off with some grand illusion (quite a few have already done that).

[Ellipse]

Thanks all for the kind words!

At this point we can bring further economies of scale and potentially lower pricing only if there are 400+ orders.  We are at just over 150 preorders right now. We would have to get to 400+ for further economies of scale to allow for additional price reductions (making the cases with die cast molds instead of CNC machining them one by one as is currently planned).

With the current total preorders, pricing will definitely stay at $325 (bring your own keys) with the option to order brand new Unicomp or used IBM keys (I will try to get a group discount).

Techno Trousers over on DT made this excellent point and I hope we can have a few volunteers to help:  "Has anyone approached any of the Korean enthusiast boards with this? Those guys seen to always have a lot of disposable income, and I'd think a lot of them would want to get in on something truly unique like this. Shame I don't speak the language."  So far just Firebolt on DT has volunteered. 

[azhdar]

I think that once the GB get started up the asian communities will get informed quickly, and don't forget China it seems to be bringing big amount of orders lately.

Will it be possible to get full touch short shift for this? I haven't read the thread entirely sorry.

[Ellipse]

Yes you can order a 3D printed full touch short shift here (I haven't verified this will work):  http://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFXWFRAK/ibm-model-m-keycap-1-75-non-stepped-v2?optionId=40367441

[rowdy]

Thanks all for the kind words!

At this point we can bring further economies of scale and potentially lower pricing only if there are 400+ orders.  We are at just over 150 preorders right now. We would have to get to 400+ for further economies of scale to allow for additional price reductions (making the cases with die cast molds instead of CNC machining them one by one as is currently planned).

With the current total preorders, pricing will definitely stay at $325 (bring your own keys) with the option to order brand new Unicomp or used IBM keys (I will try to get a group discount).

Techno Trousers over on DT made this excellent point and I hope we can have a few volunteers to help:  "Has anyone approached any of the Korean enthusiast boards with this? Those guys seen to always have a lot of disposable income, and I'd think a lot of them would want to get in on something truly unique like this. Shame I don't speak the language."  So far just Firebolt on DT has volunteered. 

Have you considered the possibility of making batches of these for distribution to various keyboard vendors to sell?

[Ellipse]

Rowdy my intention is for these F77/F62 keyboards to be a "one time only" deal.  Everyone will have a month to order them (after prototypes are fully tested and photographed) and then the window will close.  It has been a ton of work this year for me and for the engineers, professionals, and GH/DT forum members that have helped along the way.  This was certainly not a "one man" project.

I would definitely be open to anyone who wants to buy a number of these, wait a year or more, and then distribute them at cost or at a higher cost for a profit later (their choice).  I'm sure as people start getting their F62s and F77s and posting photos after the order period closes there will be a lot more interest.

I was disappointed to have missed the original great find of the Kishsavers back in 2013/2014 and suggest anyone who's interested in trying one out buy one while they are still available.  Given relatively few of these will be made compared to MX and other mechanical keyboards, I think they should at least hold their value or appreciate well into the future. 

However I am interested in your suggestion to get some distributors involved, though they would need to sell these at a higher price to make a small profit I'm sure.  Economies of scale from those extra units may push prices down if they order 250-300+ units. 

Who are the main mechanical keyboard distributors?  Does anyone have any contacts there?

[pchatterjee]

First of all -- thank you for getting this going and really looking forward to it.  I really think there is a good market for modernized Ms and Fs.

Any possibility of a more modernized keyboard enclosure in aluminum or some other metal at a surcharge?

[aznairjordan]

Rowdy my intention is for these F77/F62 keyboards to be a "one time only" deal.  Everyone will have a month to order them (after prototypes are fully tested and photographed) and then the window will close.  It has been a ton of work this year for me and for the engineers, professionals, and GH/DT forum members that have helped along the way.  This was certainly not a "one man" project.

I would definitely be open to anyone who wants to buy a number of these, wait a year or more, and then distribute them at cost or at a higher cost for a profit later (their choice).  I'm sure as people start getting their F62s and F77s and posting photos after the order period closes there will be a lot more interest.

I was disappointed to have missed the original great find of the Kishsavers back in 2013/2014 and suggest anyone who's interested in trying one out buy one while they are still available.  Given relatively few of these will be made compared to MX and other mechanical keyboards, I think they should at least hold their value or appreciate well into the future. 

However I am interested in your suggestion to get some distributors involved, though they would need to sell these at a higher price to make a small profit I'm sure.  Economies of scale from those extra units may push prices down if they order 250-300+ units. 

Who are the main mechanical keyboard distributors?  Does anyone have any contacts there?

I definitely do not have any contacts but in the US, mechanicalkeyboards.com and elitekeyboards come to mind.

[fanpeople]

my intention is for these F77/F62 keyboards to be a "one time only" deal. 

I hope you plan on keeping all the associated files etc. just in case you one day decide to do another run.

[Elrick]

I definitely do not have any contacts but in the US, mechanicalkeyboards.com and elitekeyboards come to mind.

Stay away from Brian at Elitekeyboards that scumbag would sink your F62/F77 design because it will interfere with his own sales of junk keyboards.

Best go with Mechanical Keyboards because they are really decent compared to that douchebag at EK.  If you want to deal with good, honest people best go with Mechanical Keyboards  .

Plus they frequently provide all sorts of keyboards to true enthusiasts worldwide with NO problems whatsoever, as you can tell I buy exclusively from them.