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Switches now vs Switches from 7 years ago?
loki993:
Yeah the ergo clears have always intrigued me and I've wanted to try them. I think a tactile switch is what I like mostly, Ive always liked my clears and typed will on them, but they are just too heavy for me. I knew this going in though I thought I could get used it it, just when I got the board I was very new in all of this and only after figured out that it was impossible to swap out the springs without unsoldering the entire board, which I was not prepared to do.
so ideally what I am probably looking for is something maybe the weight of a Brown or a little heavier, with a more pronounced bump.
Rhienfo:
--- Quote from: loki993 on Sat, 24 June 2023, 11:39:14 ---Yeah the ergo clears have always intrigued me and I've wanted to try them. I think a tactile switch is what I like mostly, Ive always liked my clears and typed will on them, but they are just too heavy for me. I knew this going in though I thought I could get used it it, just when I got the board I was very new in all of this and only after figured out that it was impossible to swap out the springs without unsoldering the entire board, which I was not prepared to do.
so ideally what I am probably looking for is something maybe the weight of a Brown or a little heavier, with a more pronounced bump.
--- End quote ---
You should probably look for something that emulates an ergo clear. Stuff like a Penguin Tactile, Durock Medium Tactiles, Outemu Sky and Zealio V1 are all examples of this. You could always just by cherry clears and spring swap them, which would probably be cheaper than the new "ergo clears" that cherry are selling. However (I don't know if the new cherry clears fix this problem but it probably hasn't) there has been problems with the clear stems where they can potentially damage keycaps, so just keep in mind with that.
HungerMechanic:
--- Quote from: loki993 on Sat, 24 June 2023, 11:39:14 ---
so ideally what I am probably looking for is something maybe the weight of a Brown or a little heavier, with a more pronounced bump.
--- End quote ---
"Heavier Brown" is a category that intersects with "light Ergo Clear," but I'll try my best.
[I'm typing on light Ergo Clears right now, BTW.]
There have been some 'heavier Browns' in the past few years. One of the latest is probably the TTC Golden Brown V3. I tried the V2, it felt like a 65 G Brown. The V3 are cheap and fairly consistent, but they need lube for better sound characteristics.
A more interesting 'heavier Brown' is Gateron CAP Brown V2 (or V3?). This is not a Cherry-design. It has a different internal layout. But stem-wise, it is a larger Brown. It uses a powerful 55 G spring, IIRC. So, overall, it's a more crisp and snappy Brown with a more clearly-defined bump. It is also smoother and somewhat pre-lubed.
I put some hand-lubed Gateron CAP Golden Brown V2 into a keyboard for a relative. Even on a cheap keyboard, these sound great with PBT keycaps and a polycarb plate. The Milky CAP Brown V2 had better sound than the Golden CAP Brown V2, but the latter may have caught up by now. These go on sale and should be around 25-35 cents a switch. They are all too snappy for my liking, but it is exactly what some people are looking for.
At around the same intensity, but with a heavier linear spring are the [Gateron] Zealio V1 redux. This was the first factory "Ergo Clear," and one of the first-ever custom switches. You can use it like a smoother, somewhat less-tactile Ergo Clear. Or put in a 60 G 14mm TX spring, lube modestly with 3204, and it is a slightly-larger Brown. Zealio V1 can be relatively expensive, but are on-sale right now.
[Zealio V1 Redux is a switch for customizers: you will need to lube it for better sound, and it is conventional enough in design to use some replacement springs. OTOH Gateron CAP Brown can be used as-is, and is not so amenable to modding. But they do take well to 3204.]
Another switch kind-of straddling the 'heavy Brown' and 'Ergo Clear' is the Huano/Ajazz Banana. Imagine reducing the spring-weight of an MX Brown, but increasing the bump size. That's basically an Ajazz Banana. Like a more extreme CAP Brown with worse stock sound. Comes in these fun 45-piece fruit tins. Smoother than MX Brown, but sounds more plasticy without lube.
Then you have actual Ergo Clears. You are in-luck. They are official now. You can buy actual Cherry "Ergo Clears." The stock spring at 67 G is a bit heavy. So you may wish to replace with 65 G 14mm TX, 63.5 G linear Spirit, 63.5 - 68 G Progressive Spirit, and many other choices. Cherry Ergo Clears are still gritty, but these factory Ergo Clears seem to have a little better factory-lube than usual, and are probably better than Clears from 7 years ago.
Durock Medium Tactile [and its many variants] is kind of like a cruder, slightly-larger, and cheaper Zealio V1. They are fine, do well with all types of lube, and benefit strongly from films. I like to use them with high-profile keycaps, and they are fine on many plate types.
The Penguin is a DMT variant. You can actually create a hybrid Clear/Penguin by using MX Clear / Ergo Clear stems in a Penguin housing. Lube the housing, but only the tactile bump on the Clear stem. You can get away with 60 G springs this way. Instead of the stock 63.5.
BTW Maybe the best factory "Ergo Clear" are the Naevy 1.5 switches. They actually seem to have Clear-like properties, but are built better. Factory lube is decent, they do well with 3204. The 2.0 is out, but I haven't tried them. They may be more tactile.
So there you have it. Those are just some of the main options.
TTC Golden Brown V3 > Cheap heavy Brown, plasticy.
Gateron CAP Brown V2 > Ready-made snappy Brown. Cheap. Can be lubed.
Zealio V1 Redux > Fancy large Brown / Light Ergo Clear. For customization.
Huano / Ajazz Banana > Big-bump Brown with a light spring. Plasticy and loud.
Cherry Ergo Clear > The real thing. Gritty and needs lube. Dramatic effect from spring types.
Durock Medium Tactile > Cheaper Zealio V1, many variants. Use films.
Naevy 1.5 > Smooth light Ergo Clear with decent factory-lube. Use 3204.
There's also a few switches just a bit heavier than an Ergo Clear. The T1 and its million variants are one, as are the SP Star Magic Girl, which are said to be well-built but needing lube. You can also build light Holy Pandas, which are like crunchier Ergo Clears.
There are also some absurdly-cheap Panda-like switches that are worth trying. Like you can get 90 MMD Princess shipped to you for like $17 USD. And these switches would have cost about .65 cents each, based on quality, just a few years ago.
There was a huge sale on AliExpress where many of the switches I just mentioned were on sale. It just ended, but some of them are still on sale. I can point you to the MMD Princess if you want.
There's a new Brown switch coming out called "Chazhu." They lied and said things like 'Vintage Browns,' but it looks to be a snappier Brown. Could be what you are looking for. If any samples arrive with me, I will let you know.
BTW, if you actually liked typing on Clears, but they were too heavy, you could take MX Clears and put in some mid-weight progressive springs. Like 72 G or so. It would be lighter than factory Clears, but still simulate their force curve to an extent. Works well with 3204. You can also use a powerful mid-weight spring that actuates at 60 G and bottoms out around 65, although that might be a bit poppy.
HungerMechanic:
I should also mention:
Gateron Baby Kangaroo [it's snappy but not excessive, definitely larger than a Brown.]
Durock Light Tactile [larger bump than a Brown, comes in luxury "Pewter" and "Cotton-Candy" variants.]
MODE Tomorrow [a mild medium tactile that is very sturdy, decent factory-lube]
TTC Bluish White [a snappy medium-tactile that has maybe a more boxy-shaped tactile leg, more authoritative.]
SP Star Polaris Purple [the 65-67 G SP Star medium-tactiles have been called "better Ergo Clears" by some of the veteran folks around here.]
AKKO POM Browns [these are really smooth Browns with a somewhat more-defined tactile bump]
AKKO Cream Blue V3 Pro [medium-tactiles like a small Holy Panda, but they are decently-lubed from factory + cheap]
KTT Mallo [these are Browns but the bump is well-defined, and you can use a higher spring weight like 68 G.]
HungerMechanic:
BTW,
I just went to my testing board.
Since you are saying that MX Blues are not enough bump for you, I would try the larger-bump tactiles.
Probably a good starting point is the T1. The JWICK T1 V2 are so cheap, you could buy 10 for like nothing, or like 90 for $20 during a sale. Even in stock form, they are pretty good. And will give you an idea of where to go from there.
And still experiment with the Ergo Clears. What to do is buy a "sample pack" of TX springs. So you'll get like 2 60 G, 2 63.5 G, 2 65 G, and so on. Open up some MX Clears and put the springs in. [Works better with 3204 + spring-lube.]
You'll get an idea of which weights work for you. There are cheap and powerful Chinese springs that often work well with Ergo Clears as well. The point is, you can figure out a good weight fairly easily.
So just starting with those 2 options will tell you a lot.
[You can also pick up some 60 G MMD Princess and some Huano Banana samples for pretty cheap.]
There are other snappy tactiles, but these are cheap and effective.
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