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Keyboards / Re: Is someone here, who quit the hobby and is only lurking now?
« Last post by _rubik on Tue, 07 May 2024, 15:01:49 »
Quote
I don't know if this will change, or matters. Keyboards sit somewhere between tradition art and the luxury items you listed. Kit cars are maybe the closest approximation?

I think the closest parallel would be New Supercars/Hypercars. Even cars like the Porsche 911. It isn't bought by people who want to drive the cars. They are being bought by people who park them in a display garage, trailer them to car shows/events, and then trailer them home. People are specing their cars in such a way that when they sell it, it will be desirable for the next buyer, rather than their dream spec car.

I don't disagree on the "specing for resale comment" but I think comparing keyboards to hypercars is off the mark. Hypercars aren't made by a hobbyist with some CAD experience in their free time. Ferrari doesn't solicit buyer feedback in a discord. You don't need to buy 4 Norbauer boards before you're invited to buy "the premium model". This community is more grassroots than any car manufacture could dream of being. Even on the most premium end of keyboards, there's plenty of community-minded engagement.
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Off Topic / Re: What's Bothering You? (The thread about what is bothering you.)
« Last post by tp4tissue on Tue, 07 May 2024, 14:05:52 »
For some time now, when I attempt to attach a photo to a post, a 505 error returns.


Keep hitting refresh on that page, and click resend, eventually it will go through after a couple of tries.
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For some time now, when I attempt to attach a photo to a post, a 505 error returns.
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There was some discussion over on DT on keyboard wear since these keyboards use paint instead of plastic.  The summary is that the original batch keyboards' paint was more original-style and had similar wear patterns as the IBM originals, while the production of the past couple years and going forward uses only the reformulated higher-durability powdercoating finish.

"Everything is about tradeoffs. If you want an original formulation textured, matte appearance you have to accept the non-automotive quality paint finish. Uncoated paint does wear down after heavy usage (think how easy it is to scuff and chip painted walls), but the improved powdercoating of the most recent production run and the new formulation used with the recent cases should slow down the wear process. The tradeoff is that the new process is more of a mix between the Model M style finish and Model F style, and not exclusively the Model F style, but the durability is higher.

So far I have not received even one report of wear for the most recent formulation of the ultra compact cases (the two piece die cast aluminum cases).

Regarding a comparison to the originals: my guess is a lot of the old 4700 systems and their keyboards were only used for several years in the 80s before they were shelved at the recycler companies after the banks upgraded to more powerful systems as technology rapidly advanced from when these came out in the early 1980s, so much of the wear was expected to be sustained in the first year or first few years that they were actually used (even though I have heard reports from my recycler contacts of some small branches that still used the 4700 system consistently for decades, as of about 10 years ago)!

Having refurbished many of these original IBM keyboards, I have seen that many of them were repainted by third parties because the paint does not withstand usage for long. Also IBM had an option to rent these keyboards - my guess is that after a couple years many of them were replaced and refurbished just for cosmetic reasons, as part of a service contract or rental agreement. Often times the inner assembly and case manufacture dates were years apart (sometimes the reverse was true and the case was older than the inner assembly as they would just replace the inner assembly due to technological failure from what I have seen - many inner assemblies of my 4704 collection were refurbished in 1996)."
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Group Buys and Preorders / Re: [GB] KKB Skidata Neo | GB Live Now!
« Last post by dvorcol on Tue, 07 May 2024, 13:35:13 »
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Group Buys and Preorders / Re: 【GB】Class0413 by MM Studio--GB live
« Last post by teenazas on Tue, 07 May 2024, 12:41:06 »
I AM IN baby!
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Interest Checks / Re: [IC] Spyder TKL
« Last post by tulaine on Tue, 07 May 2024, 11:58:49 »
looks great :thumb:
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Artisan Services / Crookey raffle sale - [Point of Stone R2]
« Last post by crookey on Tue, 07 May 2024, 11:31:14 »
Crookey  [Point of Stone R2] raffle live soon.

Form link - https://forms.gle/96dxdtHMpFQ6UZXR7

Form open ~ closes : 2024/05/08/pm 10:00  (GMT+9 / KST) ~ 05/09/pm 10:00 (GMT+9 / KST)  24 hours

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Keyboards / Re: Is someone here, who quit the hobby and is only lurking now?
« Last post by TomahawkLabs on Tue, 07 May 2024, 11:13:39 »
Quote
I don't know if this will change, or matters. Keyboards sit somewhere between tradition art and the luxury items you listed. Kit cars are maybe the closest approximation?

I think the closest parallel would be New Supercars/Hypercars. Even cars like the Porsche 911. It isn't bought by people who want to drive the cars. They are being bought by people who park them in a display garage, trailer them to car shows/events, and then trailer them home. People are specing their cars in such a way that when they sell it, it will be desirable for the next buyer, rather than their dream spec car.

There are near nobody in existence who can drive these cars like the Bugatti, Koenigsegg, McLaren, etc to their limits. These cars are just as much art as they are motor vehicles. So people buying these cars are more interested in the engineering, unobtanium materials to make the parts of the car, etc they actually using this as a tool that can do amazing things.
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Keyboards / Re: Is someone here, who quit the hobby and is only lurking now?
« Last post by _rubik on Tue, 07 May 2024, 11:03:58 »
Eventually, high end models will emerge (just look at the 6 and 7 figure watches, 5 figure pens, for example), coffee table books will produced, Christy auctions...

There's an interesting element to this though. Watches and pens are made by small families of highly trained craftsmen. Even in the automotive industry, the _variance_ is pretty small. Keyboards can and are made by anyone. Double down that one open source contributor is supplying the files, another manufacturer is fulfilling, and a third (usually untrained) builder is assembling the whole kit.

Funnily enough, the number of "should I assemble this, or keep the parts untouched" threads I've seen is increasing. People realize that building their keyboards actually might reduce their value. Buys will pay top dollar for new-old-stock, especially the high end boards.

I don't know if this will change, or matters. Keyboards sit somewhere between tradition art and the luxury items you listed. Kit cars are maybe the closest approximation?
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