Thanks for replying! :thumb: One small thing on which board to buy, I really want the original feeling, so I planned to buy the Classic white 101 key model, but the new model M sounds great as well. Is there any difference between classic and new model M besides weight, because I really want the white colorscheme(which gives more retro feeling) but their website seems to have no white model for new model M.
I am typing on my brand-new (manufactured 4/21/2020) Unicomp Spacesaver M Mac layout keyboard and it is an undeniable joy. I'm new enough to the enthusiast ranks to not completely understand the quest for the so-called "endgame" keyboard, but I suspect barring the DIY kits you can get out there, this is about as close as I can get. And I have the absolutely gorgeous Matias Tactile Pro and went ahead and bit on the trendy Azio MK Mac board. Both are great boards, although the Kaihl brown switches in the Azio are not tactile (don't let the marketing fool you).
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I have to admit that, after watching many Youtube videos on the Unicomp keyboards, I was a bit worried about the build quality. One notable Youtube reviewer reviewed one he has that was built in 2009, and while overall his review was positive he was twisting his keyboard around like a wet rag, which indicated a slip in build quality and gave me pause. The keyboard was audibly creaking and it sounded like he was torturing a small animal. I'm happy to report that my keyboard is solid and sturdy and does not twist or complain painfully.
Other reviewers, even commenting on boards built as recently as 2017 (which is as recent as I found), were complaining about the quality next to the 1985 originals. Sure, but those keyboards went for three times as much (more, counting for inflation over the decades) back then, so don't let that scare you. No one may complain about the quality of a modern keyboard next to a vintage-1985 board unless you buy a $350 keyboard. Everything else is just whining. The keyboard I have is amazing, given what I paid for it. Spend $250 on a gamer Corsair board and compare that to one of those vintage boards. The old IBM build quality will still blow it away. It's just not a fair comparison.
There are a couple of things about the Mac model, though, that one should note:I do have to say that if the unboxing experience--and what the hell is that on Youtube beyond pornography?--is not well represented. Unicomp cares nothing about packaging appearance, probably because a) it began its life as an OEM manufacturer, and b) who needs stupid marketing when you're selling the keyboard upon whose layout all others since the 80s are based? So save the brown cardboard box in which it's shipped, because you may need to move or protect this keyboard and honestly this is an industrial product that is worth the care upon which you lavish upon it.
- The media keycap legends are not as well-designed as they could be. The icons are too large and out of proportion with the legends below them and could stand to be reduced a tad. That's a nitpick.
- The keycap color seems like it would better go with a beige board rather than the black chassis in which they are set. It was jarring at first, but I freaking love it. This is how it's pictured on their web site, but the photo is of such low quality it's easy to overlook the color on the keys. But, even alongside my Matias all-white and that gorgeous Azio backlit number I have for working in the dark, the Unicomp is the most distinctive and beautiful among the lot. If aesthetics are your thing, then the Unicomp will be as well, in spite of the media legends on F7 through F12.
Finally, in terms of the typing experience, if you've never typed on the buckling-spring mechanism this board employs, you're in for a treat, particularly if you're used to the kinds of cheap keyboards that typically come with most computers, and even the kinds of key switches the most popular mechanical-keyboards use (I am speaking of Cherry and their ilk). And as a Mac user, this keyboard wipes the damn floor with Apple's Magic Keyboard, whose minuscule key travel and flat, chicklet-style keycaps make it absolutely impossible for me to type without error after error.
I thought I loved that Apple keyboard, but if you use Slack as much as I do to manage a staff remotely (these days), you find yourself typing all day long and beginning to hate it. It's the reverse with the Unicomp. I know this sounds idiotic, but every keystroke feels like a revelation, and I sometimes have to pause, sit back, and be in the moment with the unique key feel of this board (we have a room, thank you). It's like nothing else, and it's worth everyone trying at least once if you haven't. And let me just say that if you research the IBM/Lexmark/Unicomp keyboards long enough, you start to detect a bit of a religious cult that has sprung up surrounding them, along the lines many people accuse Mac enthusiasts. It's all so silly, so let the children beat each other up over their religious convictions; we have found a manufactured product that has the potential to make our lives demonstrably better, every day. Yay Industrial Revolution!
Many Youtube reviews, in an effort to be fair, come off as being equivocal. But don't let any of it confuse you: this board is worth it, even though they raised the price ten dollars recently to $95 US. Good on them. Make money and stay in business, Unicomp, I'm rooting you. You have my hundred semolians, with thanks for being there after all these years, as I made my way back across the sea of crappy (mostly Apple) keyboards.
Okay, I ALSO have a white Matias Tactile Pro in the Mac layout. I've been going back and forth on which one I prefer, and I think usually it's the Matias, but it's a toss up. What do you think?
I feel like if I had to recommend a mechanical keyboard to someone for typing, I would go for the Matias for the feel, sound, high tactility, detachable cable, space, and 3 (!) USB passthroughs. I would recommend the Unicomp if either price was an issue, or he was into vintage stuff, or if the USB passthroughs and saving space didn't matter to him. I'm not sure. It's a real toss up for me.
I really want the white color scheme (which gives more retro feeling)
I really want the white color scheme (which gives more retro feeling)
The classic retro color scheme is pearl and pebble. White came in around the same time as black, and was never as popular.
I would just like to add
- great keyboards however if there is a issue
well
They do not like to answer questions with any sort of detail
lack overall professionalism and cant be bothered with you.
... Still, the Unicomp has a key feel that's really second to none. It's like this tactile, buttery feel that honestly gives me pause.
... Still, the Unicomp has a key feel that's really second to none. It's like this tactile, buttery feel that honestly gives me pause.
Unicomp membrane buckling springs feel smoother than the descendants of the Alps gods? I haven't felt a Unicomp, or Matias, but I wouldn't describe any of my IBM Model Ms as particularly smooth, and every Alps switch that's in good condition that I have felt is like glass.
How the mighty have fallen.
My experience with Unicomp customer support has only been positive, but that was only over them accidentally not including one of my two Geekhack keys.
I consider the Matias switches to be a better keyfeel, and significantly smoother. But, a brand new Unicomp does have a smoothness to it that my Model Ms actually don't have. It feels like, uhhh...refrigerated butter. I've got a NOS M122 that just got delivered and I'll open it up soon and tell you if it feels the same.
next time you see one of those for $30 on ebay, PM me
next time you see one of those for $30 on ebay, PM me
Yes, $30 is what they charge for a set of caps alone.
Okay, so here we go. As previously stated, my Unicomp Model M does feel a bit smoother than my old Model Ms, but just to be sure, I wanted to try a NOS board to see if I was going crazy. I was not.
I have a NOS IBM UK 1999 Terminal keyboard I popped open for this comparison, and I will say I do prefer the Unicomp to it, even new.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EluzgX7h.jpg)
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Here's a new terminal keyboard branded IBM from the 2000s. Probably made by Unicomp, considering made in the USA. Don't recognize the part number. Looks new, but could simply have been serviced or replaced.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-TWO-IBM-MODEL-M-KEYBOARDS-GOOD-FOR-PARTS/223999623295?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649
Either way, yeah one of the reasons I picked up the terminal is that I wanted to have one of the last Model Ms ever produced by IBM. Fairly excited about it.
It had arrived! So far, I really like it, despite it being pretty loud :)
But one little problem, so my W key doesn't work all the time, so I tried to re-attach it several times, but no different(sometimes it won't even click :/) and suggestion of how to fix this?
Update: after stretching out spring on W key, it works just fine :eek:
I think the Matias is one of the best keyboards out there. However the dream would be to use the keyboard the matias is trying to emulate - the Apple Extended keyboard II.Okay, I ALSO have a white Matias Tactile Pro in the Mac layout. I've been going back and forth on which one I prefer, and I think usually it's the Matias, but it's a toss up. What do you think?
I feel like if I had to recommend a mechanical keyboard to someone for typing, I would go for the Matias for the feel, sound, high tactility, detachable cable, space, and 3 (!) USB passthroughs. I would recommend the Unicomp if either price was an issue, or he was into vintage stuff, or if the USB passthroughs and saving space didn't matter to him. I'm not sure. It's a real toss up for me.
I feel like it's a win either way. I adore my Matias. It's loud and annoys my boss over Slack, which is a huge win in my opinion. Not that I'm passive-aggressive or anything.
The USB passthrough is a pretty nice feature of the Matias boards. I only have use for it when I'm using what we called "sneaker-net" in the old days, passing data from my Mac via USB flash drive to this secure government laptop they make me use (not allowed to connect to my own network). That Matias keyboard is built very well. And it's a real joy to use.
But I have to say it just doesn't feel like the Unicomp. The Matias uses modified simplified Alps-like switches, and while their own switches are better than the ones they were using when they were outsourcing the keys about ten years ago (I had a Matias from those days and it pinged like crazy and annoyed the hell out of my children), they don't have that wonderful thunk the Apple boards did back in the day. It may be the keycaps, which are pretty thin, it may be the chassis, which I heard somewhere is like NFL-helmet-equivalent plastic or something, I can't say. But I had an old Apple Extended back in the day, and it's not the same experience. Not that it isn't a good experience, mind you. Just not the same.
But right now I'm in a honeymoon phase with the Unicomp, so I'm not objective. For that I'll need more time.
And I just pulled out the Matias and do not count this board out! They have the FKey legends right and one of the things about the Matias that is also a big plus, at least for Mac users, is the legends on the alpha keycaps illustrate the key combinations for special characters. The keys aren't weighted to quite the degree the Unicomp keys are, so typing can feel slightly less fatiguing on the Matias. Still, the Unicomp has a key feel that's really second to none. It's like this tactile, buttery feel that honestly gives me pause. I wasn't kidding before.
So I guess what I'm saying here is that if you have $250 lying around, get both. If I had to choose, though, I honestly could not. Not right now.
whether the feel is identical to an actual Model M
Thou speaketh the truth Sire.
whether the feel is identical to an actual Model M
I feel compelled to raise my voice to dispute this misinformation every time it pops up, like Whack-A-Mole.
A Unicomp ABSOLUTELY IS an "actual" Model M in every conceivable way.
It is made IN THE SAME FACTORY, ON THE SAME MACHINERY, that has been making Model M keyboards since the 1980s.
There is, in much the same way your Cherry MX blues feel different than my Cherry MX blues.
That's the difference. They're essentially identical in typing feel.
You've got to remember that these guys are speaking with some rose coloured glasses, or in the case of Chyros, I believe a self-admitted focus on retro stuff. You can also ask him who his favourite modern keyboard makers are, and I bet he'd say Unicomp is one of them.
As I've stated previously here, the quality is fine, and the only parts that are a bit off are the slightly wobblier keys, which would be normal on an MX board, but used to be a little less wobbly, and the thicker backplate, which barely has any effect on the feel, but only the perception of quality. The fundamentals are identical.
As you can see above, I got an IBM made M122 New Old Stock (from the 90s) and tested how I felt. I prefer the Unicomp. If you're not convinced by this thread and indeed those videos, where people explicitly say that they're great keyboards, you were never going to buy one anyway.
Not as far as I know, but I haven't been following Unicomp's troubles in new boards, because I had always figured I wouldn't bother ever buying one, because, as we know, the keyboards in the 80s before planned obsolescence tended to be better.
I feel a perceived quality difference between My 86 square badge model, my '93 terminal board, and the Lexmark (which was a 95), but if you blindfolded me and all I was doing was typing, I would probably not be able to pick them out. Well, the older ones are a bit more high pitched, but I just discovered that. So prior to like a week ago, I wouldn't have been able to pick one out. I perceive no quality difference between gen 1 and 2 other than the worse badge.
Mal, I'll send you one of my new POS boards if you want to try it. They feel about the same, and sound louder. I promise. I do feel like the switches might be like 2 grams heavier on the unicomp though, but that might just be because the springs are new.
I just have to be patient on Ebay. Thank you though. I'll find a Unicomp for peanuts and grab it this time instead of waffling. Switch weight is actually what originally turned me away from the Model M, it was too stiff for me at the time. I'm not particularly a fan of membrane buckling spring to begin with. Your saying that your Unicomp feels smoother than the IBMs has piqued my interest though.Good idea or just get yourself a sweet AEK with a good adapter, unless you're really looking for that buckling spring magic.
I just have to be patient on Ebay. Thank you though. I'll find a Unicomp for peanuts and grab it this time instead of waffling. Switch weight is actually what originally turned me away from the Model M, it was too stiff for me at the time. I'm not particularly a fan of membrane buckling spring to begin with. Your saying that your Unicomp feels smoother than the IBMs has piqued my interest though.Good idea or just get yourself a sweet AEK with a good adapter, unless you're really looking for that buckling spring magic.
I just had a look on ebay.. someone had posted "Rare Model M, clicky keyboard".. I laughed when I saw that. Because in all the pictures it was clearly a Unicomp; which certainly isn't rare.
I would certainly get a Unicomp model M.. Currently the prices of a good one on ebay are well above my budget. I would be getting it for my brother though. Not for myself.
but that might just be because the springs are new.
but that might just be because the springs are new.
Remember that Unicomp switched from the old thick black rubber mats ("blankets" in Unicomp parlance) to the thin white latex ones, and that does make a distinct difference.
For $10, I recommend them for a Model M refurbishment project, if it is important to you.
Vintage Model Ms have thick black rubber mats.
Unicomp sells very thin white latex mats that make the action more crisp.
... Still, the Unicomp has a key feel that's really second to none. It's like this tactile, buttery feel that honestly gives me pause.
Unicomp membrane buckling springs feel smoother than the descendants of the Alps gods? I haven't felt a Unicomp, or Matias, but I wouldn't describe any of my IBM Model Ms as particularly smooth, and every Alps switch that's in good condition that I have felt is like glass.
How the mighty have fallen.
My experience with Unicomp customer support has only been positive, but that was only over them accidentally not including one of my two Geekhack keys.
I consider the Matias switches to be a better keyfeel, and significantly smoother. But, a brand new Unicomp does have a smoothness to it that my Model Ms actually don't have. It feels like, uhhh...refrigerated butter. I've got a NOS M122 that just got delivered and I'll open it up soon and tell you if it feels the same.
Also, Unicomp customer service has been fantastic to me. I don't consider their customer support an issue, and MJMusicGuy is the only person from whom I've heard it, and I think that one might be partially on him. No offense.
... Still, the Unicomp has a key feel that's really second to none. It's like this tactile, buttery feel that honestly gives me pause.
Unicomp membrane buckling springs feel smoother than the descendants of the Alps gods? I haven't felt a Unicomp, or Matias, but I wouldn't describe any of my IBM Model Ms as particularly smooth, and every Alps switch that's in good condition that I have felt is like glass.
How the mighty have fallen.
My experience with Unicomp customer support has only been positive, but that was only over them accidentally not including one of my two Geekhack keys.
I consider the Matias switches to be a better keyfeel, and significantly smoother. But, a brand new Unicomp does have a smoothness to it that my Model Ms actually don't have. It feels like, uhhh...refrigerated butter. I've got a NOS M122 that just got delivered and I'll open it up soon and tell you if it feels the same.
Also, Unicomp customer service has been fantastic to me. I don't consider their customer support an issue, and MJMusicGuy is the only person from whom I've heard it, and I think that one might be partially on him. No offense.
I will say, I have an old silver badge industrial grey Model M from 1985 that feels smoother and better than any Model M I've ever tried.
... Still, the Unicomp has a key feel that's really second to none. It's like this tactile, buttery feel that honestly gives me pause.
Unicomp membrane buckling springs feel smoother than the descendants of the Alps gods? I haven't felt a Unicomp, or Matias, but I wouldn't describe any of my IBM Model Ms as particularly smooth, and every Alps switch that's in good condition that I have felt is like glass.
How the mighty have fallen.
My experience with Unicomp customer support has only been positive, but that was only over them accidentally not including one of my two Geekhack keys.
I consider the Matias switches to be a better keyfeel, and significantly smoother. But, a brand new Unicomp does have a smoothness to it that my Model Ms actually don't have. It feels like, uhhh...refrigerated butter. I've got a NOS M122 that just got delivered and I'll open it up soon and tell you if it feels the same.
Also, Unicomp customer service has been fantastic to me. I don't consider their customer support an issue, and MJMusicGuy is the only person from whom I've heard it, and I think that one might be partially on him. No offense.
I will say, I have an old silver badge industrial grey Model M from 1985 that feels smoother and better than any Model M I've ever tried.
My earliest is probably something like an 86, silver badge, lacking the lock lights as it was meant for XT systems. I would have to check. I don't recall it feeling any smoother than the others, though I don't think I even own any from the 90s.
Have you got a relatively recent Unicomp for comparison?
Quote from: MaledictedI will say, I have an old silver badge industrial grey Model M from 1985 that feels smoother and better than any Model M I've ever tried.
My earliest is probably something like an 86, silver badge, lacking the lock lights as it was meant for XT systems. I would have to check. I don't recall it feeling any smoother than the others, though I don't think I even own any from the 90s.
Have you got a relatively recent Unicomp for comparison?
I do. I bought one last year. Typing side by side, the '85 feels buttery smooth, sharper and has a nice an crisp click. The unicomp feels slightly scratchy, and a little bit more rattly/looser.
I will say, I have an old silver badge industrial grey Model M from 1985 that feels smoother and better than any Model M I've ever tried.
My earliest is probably something like an 86, silver badge, lacking the lock lights as it was meant for XT systems. I would have to check. I don't recall it feeling any smoother than the others, though I don't think I even own any from the 90s.
Have you got a relatively recent Unicomp for comparison?
Quote from: MaledictedQuote from: ddrfraser1I will say, I have an old silver badge industrial grey Model M from 1985 that feels smoother and better than any Model M I've ever tried.
My earliest is probably something like an 86, silver badge, lacking the lock lights as it was meant for XT systems. I would have to check. I don't recall it feeling any smoother than the others, though I don't think I even own any from the 90s.
Have you got a relatively recent Unicomp for comparison?
I do. I bought one last year. Typing side by side, the '85 feels buttery smooth, sharper and has a nice an crisp click. The unicomp feels slightly scratchy, and a little bit more rattly/looser.
Maybe wear is a factor in all of this? I imagine an industrial model would be the most likely to have seen some heavy use. What about other IBM Model Ms you may have?
I have a round badge from '86 and a square badge 122 from '87. They both feel pretty crisp but slightly scratchy compared to the '85. The 122 is slightly scratchier than the oval badge but not as bad as the Unicomp (bad is relative here). I think it could be due to dust and grime. I rescued it from a recycle center in Nashville and it looked like it had been used in an autoshop for 30 years. I did wash everything the best I could. Who knows.
Hey there Model M conoisseurs. I just purchased an IBM Model M from Ebay.
Is this a proper Model M with buckling springs.. Because I have heard that during the last years of Model M production, they did away with the buckling springs for all rubber domes. I would like to make sure that I get a proper buckling spring keyboard.
Yep. You’ve got a winner. You can always double check by looking up that number in the deskthority wiki.Awesome.. :thumb:
My experience is that Model Ms (including M2s) with rubber domes have part numbers starting with "7"Good to know. Thanks for the info.
Hey there Model M conoisseurs. I just purchased an IBM Model M from Ebay.
Is this a proper Model M with buckling springs.. Because I have heard that during the last years of Model M production, they did away with the buckling springs for all rubber domes. I would like to make sure that I get a proper buckling spring keyboard.
Is this a proper Model M with buckling springs.. Because I have heard that during the last years of Model M production, they did away with the buckling springs for all rubber domes.
Came here after watching this video.
Unicomp keyboards are great. They really are.+1
Initially had a some problems with the keys not clicking correctly. Once I'd pulled off some of the keycaps and reseated the springs it typed fine.I just bought an Ultra Classic, dated on 4/27/2020. For the unpacked keyboard, one key didn't work quite well, removing the key and putting it in place correctly solved everything. I think, the design of buckling springs is sensitive to shaking, vibrations. It is possible that something is shifting somewhere in the keyboard during transportation.
Just picked up a Mac Unicomp keyboard from The Keyboard Company. Initially had a some problems with the keys not clicking correctly. Once I'd pulled off some of the keycaps and reseated the springs it typed fine.
The build quality is pretty good, certainly solid. None of the flex I've seen in some older Unicomp video reviews. Also the keycaps are all printed fine as well. My only real criticism is the really terrible, wobbly little plastic feet - but I don't tend to use them anyway.
Tbh BS are too heavy for me to type comfortably for very long due to RSI issues, but it'll be a fun keyboard to pull out once in a while when I need to get some writing done.
I think, the design of buckling springs is sensitive to shaking, vibrations. It is possible that something is shifting somewhere in the keyboard during transportation.
Membrane buckling spring is too stiff for a lot of people. I went back to Cherry MX blues when I first felt it. I didn't particularly like the feel any better either at the time. Capacitive buckling spring (Model Fs) should be light enough for just about anybody.
Membrane buckling spring is too stiff for a lot of people. I went back to Cherry MX blues when I first felt it. I didn't particularly like the feel any better either at the time. Capacitive buckling spring (Model Fs) should be light enough for just about anybody.
Tbh even Cherry Blues are too heavy for me for hours at a time. I usually type on Gateron Reds if I have serious typing to done. I figured the BS would be too heavy, but when my hands are rested it's fine for bashing out a few emails or forum posts on, and more fun than the reds. The Unicomp was kind of the top end price-wise for an 'occasional' keyboard, I doubt I'd take the risk on a Model F.
Membrane buckling spring is too stiff for a lot of people. I went back to Cherry MX blues when I first felt it. I didn't particularly like the feel any better either at the time. Capacitive buckling spring (Model Fs) should be light enough for just about anybody.
Tbh even Cherry Blues are too heavy for me for hours at a time. I usually type on Gateron Reds if I have serious typing to done. I figured the BS would be too heavy, but when my hands are rested it's fine for bashing out a few emails or forum posts on, and more fun than the reds. The Unicomp was kind of the top end price-wise for an 'occasional' keyboard, I doubt I'd take the risk on a Model F.
I just compared MX blues to capacitive buckling spring, and I do believe that capacitive buckling spring, at least on my new production F77 is actually lighter overall than MX blue. The tactility is, at least, definitely less pronounced. I do believe that my new F77 is a tad lighter than my originals though as well. I suppose you may just have to find one out in the wild to try, if you ever end up going to a meetup.
Membrane buckling spring is too stiff for a lot of people. I went back to Cherry MX blues when I first felt it. I didn't particularly like the feel any better either at the time. Capacitive buckling spring (Model Fs) should be light enough for just about anybody.
Tbh even Cherry Blues are too heavy for me for hours at a time. I usually type on Gateron Reds if I have serious typing to done. I figured the BS would be too heavy, but when my hands are rested it's fine for bashing out a few emails or forum posts on, and more fun than the reds. The Unicomp was kind of the top end price-wise for an 'occasional' keyboard, I doubt I'd take the risk on a Model F.
I just compared MX blues to capacitive buckling spring, and I do believe that capacitive buckling spring, at least on my new production F77 is actually lighter overall than MX blue. The tactility is, at least, definitely less pronounced. I do believe that my new F77 is a tad lighter than my originals though as well. I suppose you may just have to find one out in the wild to try, if you ever end up going to a meetup.
That's really interesting, I'll have to give them a try some time, I probably wouldn't just chance for the prices Model Fs tend to go to. A meetup would be good, whenever such things get going again.
Yes. The model F typing experience is lighter than the M. I nabbed an AT for $180. It’s a more workable layout.
This makes me wonder though, is it possible to put light springs into bs keyboards? Or are they finely tuned to just work with stock springs? I do know that some people have modded Ms to use F springs and visa versa.
Well Like it or not. It is the closest you would get to a brand new IBM. So I do not see what the complaints even are? I would rejoice in the fact that it even exists. I think they did it proud overall. It is not like they completely bastardized the thing AFAIK. Indeed my real Model F compared to it is much nicer but please try to give it a break. This is 2020. The fact even made in USA is a miracle in and of itself IMO.I don't know how Unicomp sells the keyboards for as little as it does, given that workers have to make a living and live in Lexington, Kentucky. Probably not the highest cost of living down there, I mean, compared to, say Brooklyn, but higher than China, for now. It's simply remarkable.
Well Like it or not. It is the closest you would get to a brand new IBM. So I do not see what the complaints even are? I would rejoice in the fact that it even exists. I think they did it proud overall. It is not like they completely bastardized the thing AFAIK. Indeed my real Model F compared to it is much nicer but please try to give it a break. This is 2020. The fact even made in USA is a miracle in and of itself IMO.I don't know how Unicomp sells the keyboards for as little as it does, given that workers have to make a living and live in Lexington, Kentucky. Probably not the highest cost of living down there, I mean, compared to, say Brooklyn, but higher than China, for now. It's simply remarkable.
Yeah but, like, Logitech is selling much worse keyboards made in China, with every single component made in China, for double the price even though the cost of living is much lower. Do you think Unicomp makes more keyboards than Logitech's $150+ keyboards? Maybe, but I'm not sure. I don't know enough about it to say anything confidently.