[GB] Sentraq TK78 Keyboard Kit (Closing/Troubleshooting)

[alexjd99]

So I have not done anything to my board, but when I plug it in to any of my computers, it is not recognized, and no matter how many times I plug it back in or however long i hold down my reset button, I get the same error.

Is my PCB kill? I haven't done anything to it at all, so this seems a little strange that it would be doing this

[UsualSuspectXXX]

I can't seem to get my PCB into reset mode. I've tried clicking the button and holding it but it isn't registered by dfu or the teensy loader. Am I doing something wrong?

I'm going to assume that it's functioning as a keyboard, it's probably a driver issue. Try installing skully's qmk firmware loader, it comes with the appropriate drivers and it works really well for flashing any hex

Thanks dooders. I'll give that a try.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

After installing the driver I was able to load the firmware =/ I feel dumb

New problem. I build the default TK78 firmware from here but no keys register. Is this firmware out of date and should I be using something else?

[SmithTheNinja]

Can't get it to do anything besides make this pop-up...


It shows up in device manager for a second or two at a time between throwing that error and looks like this


I can't manage to get windows to shut up long enough to get any other real info though :/

Same deal on two separate Windows 10 PCs, and Ubuntu doesn't see it at all with dfu-util or lsusb

Any advice?  I have a pretty strong feeling that I'm the weak link on this one.

[skullydazed]

I can't manage to get windows to shut up long enough to get any other real info though :/

Same deal on two separate Windows 10 PCs, and Ubuntu doesn't see it at all with dfu-util or lsusb

Any advice?  I have a pretty strong feeling that I'm the weak link on this one.

When it wants to search windows update for a driver you have to cancel. If the automated install didn't work you'll need to install the drivers manually, you can find them in the C:\Program Files\QMK Firmware Flasher folder.

On your Ubuntu machine you should be using dfu-programmer. dfu-util is for a different MCU.

[SmithTheNinja]

I can't manage to get windows to shut up long enough to get any other real info though :/

Same deal on two separate Windows 10 PCs, and Ubuntu doesn't see it at all with dfu-util or lsusb

Any advice?  I have a pretty strong feeling that I'm the weak link on this one.

When it wants to search windows update for a driver you have to cancel. If the automated install didn't work you'll need to install the drivers manually, you can find them in the C:\Program Files\QMK Firmware Flasher folder.

On your Ubuntu machine you should be using dfu-programmer. dfu-util is for a different MCU.

Thanks for the quick reply.  I'm starting to think I might be suffering from serious ID10T issues, but I still can't get the board to do anything productive.

I can't get windows to stop disconnecting and reconnecting it long enough to do anything with drivers consistently and the few times I do get into the drivers before it disconnects and reconnects it just says nah we picked the best one like this:




And on the Ubuntu I have dfu-programmer and dfu-util but I can't find the board as a target for dfu-programmer and was hoping dfu-util -list would help me find it, but no luck, so no love for the flashing that way :/

Edit:
And I may be way off base here, but shouldn't it come with the default firmware already flashed? So it should just be a plug in receive enough of a keyboard to test the switches and then hit the reset button to reprogram it to my desired layout?  I might be an idiot but I don't recall my Infinity 60% taking anywhere near this much fighting to get it to do anything at all.

[skullydazed]

Edit:
And I may be way off base here, but shouldn't it come with the default firmware already flashed? So it should just be a plug in receive enough of a keyboard to test the switches and then hit the reset button to reprogram it to my desired layout?  I might be an idiot but I don't recall my Infinity 60% taking anywhere near this much fighting to get it to do anything at all.

Yes. It should operate as a keyboard even without flashing. You're getting resets even in normal operating mode? That's unusual and shouldn't be happening.

[kawasaki161]

I've now got a semi-solution for having numlock switch the numpad to the function layer version like on the QF TK, but it's really not clean at all since I just used a function that switches to another layer with that layout.

I would really be interested in knowing if it is possible to make the status of Numlock switch layers, or at least have a function that switches Numlock as well as switches to the other layer. On the latter one I know that it is possible to make one keypress press a combo, but I don't know if some way of sensing which state of Numlock the system is in is possible, I also don't know if using a function that refers to another function would cause problems.

[SmithTheNinja]

Yes. It should operate as a keyboard even without flashing. You're getting resets even in normal operating mode? That's unusual and shouldn't be happening.

Well fudgey nutkins. I am getting the resets regardless of pushing reset and as soon as I plug the board in.  Does that mean the board made a dead? 

[skullydazed]

Yes. It should operate as a keyboard even without flashing. You're getting resets even in normal operating mode? That's unusual and shouldn't be happening.

Well fudgey nutkins. I am getting the resets regardless of pushing reset and as soon as I plug the board in.  Does that mean the board made a dead? 

PM incoming.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Skully, is this still the appropriate TK78 firmware? I see that in the base directory you say "This repository is obsolete!" with a link to QMK, but you do not have a QMK directory for the TK78.

Where is the firmware for this board supposed to be pulled from? The reason that I ask is I built and flashed the above firmware to no avail.

[kawasaki161]

Skully, is this still the appropriate TK78 firmware? I see that in the base directory you say "This repository is obsolete!" with a link to QMK, but you do not have a QMK directory for the TK78.

Where is the firmware for this board supposed to be pulled from? The reason that I ask is I built and flashed the above firmware to no avail.

It worked for me though, I'll upload my current .hex first thing when I wake up. If it works for you, you did something wrong when compiling it, when it doesn't you either have a problem flashing or the PCB is different than the prototype the firmware was made for and definitely works with.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Skully, is this still the appropriate TK78 firmware? I see that in the base directory you say "This repository is obsolete!" with a link to QMK, but you do not have a QMK directory for the TK78.

Where is the firmware for this board supposed to be pulled from? The reason that I ask is I built and flashed the above firmware to no avail.

It worked for me though, I'll upload my current .hex first thing when I wake up. If it works for you, you did something wrong when compiling it, when it doesn't you either have a problem flashing or the PCB is different than the prototype the firmware was made for and definitely works with.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

I don't think I built it wrong because I've had no issues building TMK and QMK for the planck I hand wired a few months back.

Also, I am a dev but C and C++ is not exactly my forte. So it's definitely possible I did something wrong. I flashed with skully's DFU ladder. And it said it flashed fine.

[deductivemonkee]

I got something to do this weekend! 

Show Image

... ignore the Fugus =P

I will not ignore the fugus.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

I got something to do this weekend! 

Show Image

... ignore the Fugus =P

I will not ignore the fugus.

=D

[deductivemonkee]

I got something to do this weekend! 

Show Image

... ignore the Fugus =P

I will not ignore the fugus.

=D

Send me the first one :)

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[UsualSuspectXXX]

I got something to do this weekend! 

Show Image

... ignore the Fugus =P

I will not ignore the fugus.

=D

Send me the first one :)

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Nevaaaa

[deductivemonkee]

I got something to do this weekend! 

Show Image

... ignore the Fugus =P

I will not ignore the fugus.

=D

Send me the first one :)

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Nevaaaa

Send me the fourth one :D

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[alexjd99]

If anyone is offering any assembly services/would be willing to assemble and flash mine for me, PM me so we can work out some sort of deal.

I've been trying for days to flash it, but I'm too inexperienced with this (the other boards I've programmed have been much easier/had less problems), and I haven't even been able to test the PCB to see if the keys register. I'm also going to be way too busy to work on building it soon, so I'm looking to pay someone to just do it for me.

I have all the parts, so all I would need is to flash they keyboard and assemble it (the main one is flashing it though, but I'd assume you would want to assemble it to make sure all is working properly).

I've tried working with TMK in the past, and did have some troubles, although I was eventually able to figure it out. The group buys for those boards however had much more detailed instructions, but this is just beyond me like I said. I've looked at all instructions and no matter what I do, it just won't work out for me. So yeah, please PM me and hopefully we can work something out

[skullydazed]

Skully, is this still the appropriate TK78 firmware? I see that in the base directory you say "This repository is obsolete!" with a link to QMK, but you do not have a QMK directory for the TK78.

Where is the firmware for this board supposed to be pulled from? The reason that I ask is I built and flashed the above firmware to no avail.

Yes, I haven't had a chance to port this over to QMK yet like I have for most of my other keyboards. The monarch is in the same boat, actually.

[kawasaki161]

It worked for me though, I'll upload my current .hex first thing when I wake up. If it works for you, you did something wrong when compiling it, when it doesn't you either have a problem flashing or the PCB is different than the prototype the firmware was made for and definitely works with.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

I don't think I built it wrong because I've had no issues building TMK and QMK for the planck I hand wired a few months back.

Also, I am a dev but C and C++ is not exactly my forte. So it's definitely possible I did something wrong. I flashed with skully's DFU ladder. And it said it flashed fine.

Here is my .hex
Here is my keymap (Just so you know what should and shouldn't happen)
I flashed using QMK firmware flasher.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

It worked for me though, I'll upload my current .hex first thing when I wake up. If it works for you, you did something wrong when compiling it, when it doesn't you either have a problem flashing or the PCB is different than the prototype the firmware was made for and definitely works with.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

I don't think I built it wrong because I've had no issues building TMK and QMK for the planck I hand wired a few months back.

Also, I am a dev but C and C++ is not exactly my forte. So it's definitely possible I did something wrong. I flashed with skully's DFU ladder. And it said it flashed fine.

Here is my .hex
Here is my keymap (Just so you know what should and shouldn't happen)
I flashed using QMK firmware flasher.

Thanks. I'll give this a try a little later today.

Skully, is this still the appropriate TK78 firmware? I see that in the base directory you say "This repository is obsolete!" with a link to QMK, but you do not have a QMK directory for the TK78.

Where is the firmware for this board supposed to be pulled from? The reason that I ask is I built and flashed the above firmware to no avail.

Yes, I haven't had a chance to port this over to QMK yet like I have for most of my other keyboards. The monarch is in the same boat, actually.

Ahh okay. When I get this up and running with TMK I might port it over to QMK.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

kawasaki161, thanks again for uploading your hex file.

After flashing with skully's dfu-programmer and reconnecting they PCB, it is not recognized. I get the below message from Windows.



Any suggestions?

Edit:
I had manually installed the driver from the dfu-programmer zip but when I go into Device Manager it says that drivers are up to date but can not recognize the usb device.

[kawasaki161]

That... shouldn't happen, at least it doesn't for me (but I guess you already figured that out by now)

Which OS are you running on and do you have the option to try a different PC?
Maybe something wonky happened with the Atmel drivers.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

That... shouldn't happen, at least it doesn't for me (but I guess you already figured that out by now)

Which OS are you running on and do you have the option to try a different PC?
Maybe something wonky happened with the Atmel drivers.

I'm on Windows 8. And yes, I tried on another machine (also Win8 though). I guess it's possible that something happened with the driver, but I don't see any way to uninstall the driver and reload it.
When I got it, it wasn't recognized at all (by the dfu loader) until I manually installed the driver.

[kawasaki161]

That... shouldn't happen, at least it doesn't for me (but I guess you already figured that out by now)

Which OS are you running on and do you have the option to try a different PC?
Maybe something wonky happened with the Atmel drivers.

I'm on Windows 8. And yes, I tried on another machine (also Win8 though). I guess it's possible that something happened with the driver, but I don't see any way to uninstall the driver and reload it.
When I got it, it wasn't recognized at all (by the dfu loader) until I manually installed the driver.

Hmm, I'm kinda at a loss here since I never had any problems.

What exactly happened until now and what did you try already, from before you connected the board the first time until now?

[UsualSuspectXXX]

That... shouldn't happen, at least it doesn't for me (but I guess you already figured that out by now)

Which OS are you running on and do you have the option to try a different PC?
Maybe something wonky happened with the Atmel drivers.

I'm on Windows 8. And yes, I tried on another machine (also Win8 though). I guess it's possible that something happened with the driver, but I don't see any way to uninstall the driver and reload it.
When I got it, it wasn't recognized at all (by the dfu loader) until I manually installed the driver.

Hmm, I'm kinda at a loss here since I never had any problems.

What exactly happened until now and what did you try already, from before you connected the board the first time until now?

So the first thing that I tried was plugging it in and trying to cross a connection. Since nothing happened. I built the TMK firmware but the board wasn't recognized by the cli dfu loader, installed skully's dfu loader but still not recognized. So I opened Device Manager and installed the driver that came with the dfu programmer. Now that it was recognized by the dfu programmer I tried flashing the default firmware that I built; nothing. Flashed the hex file that you sent me; nothing. It continues to be not recognized by windows, but shows that drivers are up to date compared to the version that I have (since that's the one that I installed).

I hope that all makes sense.

[kawasaki161]

I hope that all makes sense.

The stuff happening does not make sense, your explanation does though.

What does it show up as in the device manager?
I just remembered I had something similar with a bad cable once, but you probably tried that already.

I'll connect mine to a few different PC's that have never had anything similar attached later. Maybe something interesting happens.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

The stuff happening does not make sense, your explanation does though.

What does it show up as in the device manager?
I just remembered I had something similar with a bad cable once, but you probably tried that already.

I'll connect mine to a few different PC's that have never had anything similar attached later. Maybe something interesting happens.

Yup. Tried a few difference cables. Namely the one that came with it.

It shows up as "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)".

I see that device manager says that it has a Microsoft driver installed. When I click uninstall, all it does is disconnect the device from the machine.

[SmithTheNinja]

Yup. Tried a few difference cables. Namely the one that came with it.

It shows up as "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)".

I see that device manager says that it has a Microsoft driver installed. When I click uninstall, all it does is disconnect the device from the machine.

UsualSuspectXXX that sounds almost exactly the same as what was going on with mine, except windows 10 appears to like to disconnect it after showing that error message, and vaguely similar to what alexjd99 was describing too.

Does yours act like a keyboard when you first plug it in and only does the device descriptor request failed when you hit the reset button, or is it going straight to device descriptor request failed from the start?

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Yup. Tried a few difference cables. Namely the one that came with it.

It shows up as "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)".

I see that device manager says that it has a Microsoft driver installed. When I click uninstall, all it does is disconnect the device from the machine.

UsualSuspectXXX that sounds almost exactly the same as what was going on with mine, except windows 10 appears to like to disconnect it after showing that error message, and vaguely similar to what alexjd99 was describing too.

Does yours act like a keyboard when you first plug it in and only does the device descriptor request failed when you hit the reset button, or is it going straight to device descriptor request failed from the start?

Yes it does sound like the same issue. It has never acted like a keyboard, despite drivers and flashing firmware. It goes straight to the device descriptor request error every time.

[scramm]

That's exactly what happened with the sentraq 60% I ordered on massdrop.  They ended up taking it back 😥

[UsualSuspectXXX]

That's exactly what happened with the sentraq 60% I ordered on massdrop.  They ended up taking it back 😥

='[

[kawasaki161]

Finally done! Sadly 5mm purple Acrylic is impossible to find, so black had to do

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Finally done! Sadly 5mm purple Acrylic is impossible to find, so black had to do

Congrats! It looks great. Really wish I  could get my PCB running.

[kawasaki161]

Really wish I  could get my PCB running.

Reading this makes me really sad as it does not only affect the participants but also all guys running this GB. I know they do their best, but to outsiders it just seems very different. A lot went wrong that was not directly caused by those running this GB.
Other than the PCB's not working after being assembled the cases also were mismade (I don't know if all of them were affected and completely forgot showing to this thread what exactly is wrong with mine, I'm gonna do it now).

It is supposed to be like that (look at the angled standoffs)


This is what mine looks like. It is especially bad because the standoffs on the right are not on the same horizontal-line as the middle and left ones, causing a different angle and bending the PCB. I only realized because in my PCB the lower middle screw hole is missing, so I could see the PCB being bent up in the middle. I fixed it with foam washers on all screws, both sides of the PCB and one metal washer on both the right standoffs.


Again the prototype (look at the first post) did have the angled standoffs and worked fine according to dooders, just like the the prototype PCB I've got here (except the one missing hole ofc).

I hope everyone with problems already contacted dooders already, if not I'd suggest you do.

Let's all hope to break the curse soon and make this GB go out with a bang (and everyone happy at the end)!

[alexjd99]

So it sounds like we're all having the same problem, because I've been trying and no matter what I do, it won't let me even install the correct drivers (this may be on my end too). Even when I press the reset button, nothing is happening here.

If the rest of you are having the same problem, it's definitely something going on with the PCBs

[UsualSuspectXXX]

So it sounds like we're all having the same problem, because I've been trying and no matter what I do, it won't let me even install the correct drivers (this may be on my end too). Even when I press the reset button, nothing is happening here.

If the rest of you are having the same problem, it's definitely something going on with the PCBs

Definitely a related problem. I don't have the constant reconnecting problem so I was able to get the driver installed. Still didn't make a difference though.

[alexjd99]

So it sounds like we're all having the same problem, because I've been trying and no matter what I do, it won't let me even install the correct drivers (this may be on my end too). Even when I press the reset button, nothing is happening here.

If the rest of you are having the same problem, it's definitely something going on with the PCBs

Definitely a related problem. I don't have the constant reconnecting problem so I was able to get the driver installed. Still didn't make a difference though.

Skully, IIRC you were at the last SoCal meetup, I'm fairly certain I'm going to this upcoming one. Will you be there? If you are going to be there, I'll be sure to bring my board so that you can maybe take a look and see if you can figure out the problem we're having.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Just sent dooders a PM. Maybe he'll be able to chime in with a solution.

[SmithTheNinja]

Reading this makes me really sad as it does not only affect the participants but also all guys running this GB. I know they do their best, but to outsiders it just seems very different. A lot went wrong that was not directly caused by those running this GB.

Well put kawasaki.  I know Dooders and Skully have been busting their tails on this GB. I really hope this doesn't reflect poorly on them. I know I for one will happily do a groupbuy with them again in the future, hopefully with a little better luck next time, China permitting

[doodersbrother]

Hey guys,

I'm narrowing down potential fab houses to make the replacement PCB's. I'll let you guys know as soon as they start to get made. For the people who already received PCB's but don't work, yours will be replaced as well. Thanks so much for your guys' patience, I know it's taking a while..

[scramm]

Thanks dooders. Can't wait!

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Thanks for the update dooders. I don't mind the wait, just really excited to get this board built.

[kawasaki161]

So, I just soldered in my Sip sockets to put in my LED's. For some reason the Numlock and Capslock LED's don't light up (checked polarity multiple times and tried with Num/Capslock an and off), maybe it's something about the firmware, maybe not idk. i hope someone knows a fix, if not I'll just bridge them to the LED's next to them.

Also, if you are still able to change the PCB design before producing the new ones you might want to try placing the diode for the left Control key slightly further away from the mounting hole (just like half a mm would be enough I guess). I partially knocked my diode off every time I had to disassemble and reassemble the board (3-4 times in a row now), so I had to reflow the solder points quite often now, which is not the end of the world, but could be avoided.

Edit: Also, the LED's don't turn off when I turn off my PC.

[alexjd99]

Thanks for the update! I've been really excited for the board, so it's worth the wait! Thanks for getting this taken care of

[skullydazed]

So, I just soldered in my Sip sockets to put in my LED's. For some reason the Numlock and Capslock LED's don't light up (checked polarity multiple times and tried with Num/Capslock an and off), maybe it's something about the firmware, maybe not idk. i hope someone knows a fix, if not I'll just bridge them to the LED's next to them.

Also, if you are still able to change the PCB design before producing the new ones you might want to try placing the diode for the left Control key slightly further away from the mounting hole (just like half a mm would be enough I guess). I partially knocked my diode off every time I had to disassemble and reassemble the board (3-4 times in a row now), so I had to reflow the solder points quite often now, which is not the end of the world, but could be avoided.

Edit: Also, the LED's don't turn off when I turn off my PC.

By default Capslock and Numlock are controlled by the state of those keys. If you want them to be on with the rest of the backlight it's a pretty simple change to the firmware. Just remove them from the led.c file and modify the backlight.c to add lines for LED5 and LED6.

[kawasaki161]

By default Capslock and Numlock are controlled by the state of those keys.

That's the thing that is bugging me... they are not, at least it does not work for me.

[tj_gee]

Is anyone else having issues with the screws and the PCB?

I had to send mine back to the guy who did the assembly because my "." on the keypad area wouldn't work. Turns out it was a from the screw holes. The PCB doesn't have a non-connected ring of metal around the holes. Assembly guy said, "The screws have dug into the PCB a small amount, but I can see metal exposed and I think they're causing a short on that bottom row." The board starting sending weird key combos when assembled, but disassembled it works fine. The screws fit irregularly tight in the PCB holes and it's a pain to remove them to disassemble.

Any suggestions on what to do about this?

The assembler suggested these:

• Coat the exposed PCB bits with some kind of protective coating (I'm pretty sure clear nail polish works very well for this, but I have a cousin who's an electrical engineer and can get his insight on the best product for the job.)
• Attempt to source plastic screws that wouldn't conduct
• Use some kind of paper washer between the pcb & screws (I remember old motherboard screws had little red washers made of cardboard/paper/whatever that were non conductive)
• Find longer metal screws and use metal washers between the screw head and the plate to secure the plate to the case without really touching the pcb

[mogo]

Find longer metal screws and use metal washers between the screw head and the plate to secure the plate to the case without really touching the pcb

You mean plastic/paper washers? Wouldn't a metal washer just short the circuit again?