[IC] ePBT 6085 - GB starts April 15th. Pricing added!

[depletedvespene]

It is time for the bar wars.

For historical/aesthetical reasons that refuse to die, the vertical bar (u+007c, | ) is displayed in many sets as the broken bar (U+00a6, ¦ ). In keysets that only support the English (US) national layout this is not much of a problem, but...

As things go, the broken bar symbol IS available in quite a few national layouts, English (UK) in particular. Your set, as it stands now, supports both English (US) over ANSI and English (UK) over ISO... but uses the same legend (¦) to represent the vertical bar (in each \| keycap) and the broken bar (in the UK-specific `¬¦ keycap). I would suggest using the vertical bar to represent... the vertical bar.


Also R3 \| , yadda yadda yadda...



EDIT: also, 4$€.

[nu_types]

Hello all! A few updates:

• I updated the colors to more accurately match the OG Xerox board and had new renders made. These colors should be final.
• A Cyrillic alphas set is in the works.

Furthermore, I'm looking into getting proxies set up as requested by a few users. I've reached out to KBDfans regarding this.

Regarding the addition of a Cyrillic set, I'm interested in knowing what people think of splitting the Latin alphas from the base set and offering a generic modifier set and separate alphas. I originally wanted to offer a solid base kit that would offer enough compatibility for most people, but I'm wondering if that's the right way to go if there are 3 different alpha kits?

[nu_types]

It is time for the bar wars.

For historical/aesthetical reasons that refuse to die, the vertical bar (u+007c, | ) is displayed in many sets as the broken bar (U+00a6, ¦ ). In keysets that only support the English (US) national layout this is not much of a problem, but...

As things go, the broken bar symbol IS available in quite a few national layouts, English (UK) in particular. Your set, as it stands now, supports both English (US) over ANSI and English (UK) over ISO... but uses the same legend (¦) to represent the vertical bar (in each \| keycap) and the broken bar (in the UK-specific `¬¦ keycap). I would suggest using the vertical bar to represent... the vertical bar.


Also R3 \| , yadda yadda yadda...



EDIT: also, 4$€.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm working to get the missing UK ISO '4' key added and the pipe keys update accordingly

[jimboytacos]

I'm all over those novelties. Yes!

[IMZO]

oh its pretty, GLWIC!

[nu_types]

• Added Cyrillic sublegends kit and board renders (thank you Marco).
• Added missing '4$€' key for UK ISO

[directheatedtriode]

Hello all! A few updates:

• I updated the colors to more accurately match the OG Xerox board and had new renders made. These colors should be final.
• A Cyrillic alphas set is in the works.

Furthermore, I'm looking into getting proxies set up as requested by a few users. I've reached out to KBDfans regarding this.

Regarding the addition of a Cyrillic set, I'm interested in knowing what people think of splitting the Latin alphas from the base set and offering a generic modifier set and separate alphas. I originally wanted to offer a solid base kit that would offer enough compatibility for most people, but I'm wondering if that's the right way to go if there are 3 different alpha kits?

Would this include a US proxy? Honestly not a fan of how KBDfans customer service the one time I had to deal with an issue.

[ddrfraser1]

Love it

[Hadi]

Variations on OG colorways are my thing. I'd pick up a kit!

[nu_types]

Hello all! A few updates:

• I updated the colors to more accurately match the OG Xerox board and had new renders made. These colors should be final.
• A Cyrillic alphas set is in the works.

Furthermore, I'm looking into getting proxies set up as requested by a few users. I've reached out to KBDfans regarding this.

Regarding the addition of a Cyrillic set, I'm interested in knowing what people think of splitting the Latin alphas from the base set and offering a generic modifier set and separate alphas. I originally wanted to offer a solid base kit that would offer enough compatibility for most people, but I'm wondering if that's the right way to go if there are 3 different alpha kits?

Would this include a US proxy? Honestly not a fan of how KBDfans customer service the one time I had to deal with an issue.

Sorry to hear that . I am planning on looking for a NA proxy as well... Just waiting on word from KBDfans before I start going down that route.

[RETURNISO]

Colorways like this is just too good, very lovely set!

For the regular alphas would a nordeuk / international kit be possible? Should be ok todo with ePBT, child kits are "cheap"

[directheatedtriode]

Hello all! A few updates:

• I updated the colors to more accurately match the OG Xerox board and had new renders made. These colors should be final.
• A Cyrillic alphas set is in the works.

Furthermore, I'm looking into getting proxies set up as requested by a few users. I've reached out to KBDfans regarding this.

Regarding the addition of a Cyrillic set, I'm interested in knowing what people think of splitting the Latin alphas from the base set and offering a generic modifier set and separate alphas. I originally wanted to offer a solid base kit that would offer enough compatibility for most people, but I'm wondering if that's the right way to go if there are 3 different alpha kits?

Would this include a US proxy? Honestly not a fan of how KBDfans customer service the one time I had to deal with an issue.

Sorry to hear that . I am planning on looking for a NA proxy as well... Just waiting on word from KBDfans before I start going down that route.

Thanks, I love these old school sets in PBT

[Qarmaa]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

[Ulliam]

I like it, allot. The regular base anyway. but it feels like GMK alchemy with extra steps.

[nu_types]

Colorways like this is just too good, very lovely set!

For the regular alphas would a nordeuk / international kit be possible? Should be ok todo with ePBT, child kits are "cheap"

I'll consider this

[nu_types]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

[nu_types]

I like it, allot. The regular base anyway. but it feels like GMK alchemy with extra steps.

Thanks! I looked at GMK Alchemy, and I'm not really seeing the similarities other than being gray and beige?

[Ulliam]

I like it, allot. The regular base anyway. but it feels like GMK alchemy with extra steps.

Thanks! I looked at GMK Alchemy, and I'm not really seeing the similarities other than being gray and beige?

and the dark red.

[nu_types]

I like it, allot. The regular base anyway. but it feels like GMK alchemy with extra steps.

Thanks! I looked at GMK Alchemy, and I'm not really seeing the similarities other than being gray and beige?

and the dark red.

Doesn't GMK Alchemy have brown legends though?

[RETURNISO]

Colorways like this is just too good, very lovely set!

For the regular alphas would a nordeuk / international kit be possible? Should be ok todo with ePBT, child kits are "cheap"

I'll consider this

Thank you!

And no one have mentioned all the windowed keys.. YES Thank you

[konstantin]

I find it a bit out of character that this set includes UK-specific ISO keys rather than the awesome and unique ISO keys that the original Xerox 6085 keyboard came with. I get that the original keyboard is just an inspiration, but I think those ’ ‛ and ” ‟ keys would work really well with this set, and they would offer “neutral/novelty” coverage that could be used for any ISO layout, not just UK. This is further compounded by the fact that ISO-UK keys are used by only about 19% of ISO users and 3% of all users (source; it's actually less than that for full ISO-UK).

With that in mind, I would like to suggest dropping the following keys from the base kit:

• R1 `¬¦ (mod-colored)
• R1 `¬¦ (alpha-colored)
• R1 2"
• R1 3£
• R1 4$€
• R3 '@
• R3 #~
• R4 \|

And instead adding the following (all 1u):

• R3 ’ ‛
• R3 ” ‟
• R4 <> (as seen on other Xerox keyboards, and many other terminal boards from the era)

By doing this, not only do you save a whole bunch of keys, but the set also remains truer to the original inspiration.

On a personal note, I love seeing vintage-inspired sets that include quirky keys from the original keyboards. Some examples are SA 8010 and KAT Extended APL. I'd love to see this set join that list

Edit: fixed link

[vi0till]

Hello all! A few updates:

• I updated the colors to more accurately match the OG Xerox board and had new renders made. These colors should be final.
• A Cyrillic alphas set is in the works.

Furthermore, I'm looking into getting proxies set up as requested by a few users. I've reached out to KBDfans regarding this.

Regarding the addition of a Cyrillic set, I'm interested in knowing what people think of splitting the Latin alphas from the base set and offering a generic modifier set and separate alphas. I originally wanted to offer a solid base kit that would offer enough compatibility for most people, but I'm wondering if that's the right way to go if there are 3 different alpha kits?

Would agree to split mod and offer numerous alpha kit.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[emerge]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

[Ensaum]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

[emerge]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

So do you justify the warped spacebars of ePBT because they can be flattened? Also, if you want PBT, then Infinikey is a better choice from ePBT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[nu_types]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

So do you justify the warped spacebars of ePBT because they can be flattened? Also, if you want PBT, then Infinikey is a better choice from ePBT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Warping is a common issue with PBT and plastics in general. It's just easier to mitigate warping with ABS. That's why almost every vintage keyboard you see with PBT keycaps has an ABS spacebar. Afaik infinikey has warping issues as well. Additionally, I'm not sure if infinikey does anything other than five-sided dyesub, which I think is the wrong way to go for this set. Lastly, I've already sent a sample from my OG set to KBDfans for color matching and I'm about to send another one. At this point, this set is firmly ePBT.

[Ensaum]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

So do you justify the warped spacebars of ePBT because they can be flattened? Also, if you want PBT, then Infinikey is a better choice from ePBT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

No, not at all. Both scenarios suck and I used to buy GMK over pbt for their flat space bars. It's just that now, since both options have the same issue, I can at least fix a pbt set.

[bansheetango]

I can look into doing local vendors, although typically ePBT is run solely through KBDfans.

That would be awesome. Kon Momo and Cool Kids ran recently on CandyKeys.

[directheatedtriode]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

So do you justify the warped spacebars of ePBT because they can be flattened? Also, if you want PBT, then Infinikey is a better choice from ePBT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Not sure I agree about Infinikey being better than ePBT. The Infinikey set I have has the tightest keycaps I have ever seen. Like it takes a long time to remove a single cap off a switch because you have to gently rock it for a long time as straight up pulling them with a keycap puller will not pull them out. I use soldered PCBs only, but the caps are so tight it would probably pull up the whole switch on a hotswap board.

Every company making keycaps has some compromise or another these days. From what I read in another Discord channel GMK has settled on this current issue being within their tolerances and they are not going to be replacing people's spacebars.

What I'm wondering is the hot water fix for ePBT spacebars permanent? Or do they slowed go back to their old shape? I only have an older 9009 set from them and the spacebar is so mildly warped I never bothered attempting anything.

[treeleaf64]

I like the Cyrillic one but I hope it does not warp

[treeleaf64]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

So do you justify the warped spacebars of ePBT because they can be flattened? Also, if you want PBT, then Infinikey is a better choice from ePBT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Not sure I agree about Infinikey being better than ePBT. The Infinikey set I have has the tightest keycaps I have ever seen. Like it takes a long time to remove a single cap off a switch because you have to gently rock it for a long time as straight up pulling them with a keycap puller will not pull them out. I use soldered PCBs only, but the caps are so tight it would probably pull up the whole switch on a hotswap board.

Every company making keycaps has some compromise or another these days. From what I read in another Discord channel GMK has settled on this current issue being within their tolerances and they are not going to be replacing people's spacebars.

What I'm wondering is the hot water fix for ePBT spacebars permanent? Or do they slowed go back to their old shape? I only have an older 9009 set from them and the spacebar is so mildly warped I never bothered attempting anything.

Yes the fix is permanent

It's how the plastic works
Basically what happens is you are "warping" it back into normal shape ~ ~ Since it's a rigid plastic it won't change shape

[trenzafeeds]

This is definitely of interest to me. I like the desk mat as well. 

[Little4Real]

Wish this was CRP

[DasGnome]

The "Keyboard" cap is amazing

[kajahtaa]

Love this. I'm in.

Wish Nomad had preonic pipe

[tempo]

I would love the full kit for the cyrillic that includes all the numbers

[directheatedtriode]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

So do you justify the warped spacebars of ePBT because they can be flattened? Also, if you want PBT, then Infinikey is a better choice from ePBT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Not sure I agree about Infinikey being better than ePBT. The Infinikey set I have has the tightest keycaps I have ever seen. Like it takes a long time to remove a single cap off a switch because you have to gently rock it for a long time as straight up pulling them with a keycap puller will not pull them out. I use soldered PCBs only, but the caps are so tight it would probably pull up the whole switch on a hotswap board.

Every company making keycaps has some compromise or another these days. From what I read in another Discord channel GMK has settled on this current issue being within their tolerances and they are not going to be replacing people's spacebars.

What I'm wondering is the hot water fix for ePBT spacebars permanent? Or do they slowed go back to their old shape? I only have an older 9009 set from them and the spacebar is so mildly warped I never bothered attempting anything.

Yes the fix is permanent

It's how the plastic works
Basically what happens is you are "warping" it back into normal shape ~ ~ Since it's a rigid plastic it won't change shape

Got it, thanks.

nu_types - why no text mod for "shift" and "lock" (even without LED window) in the novelties set? I feel like this would tie in the intended design even more.

[nu_types]

I find it a bit out of character that this set includes UK-specific ISO keys rather than the awesome and unique ISO keys that the original Xerox 6085 keyboard came with. I get that the original keyboard is just an inspiration, but I think those ’ ‛ and ” ‟ keys would work really well with this set, and they would offer “neutral/novelty” coverage that could be used for any ISO layout, not just UK. This is further compounded by the fact that ISO-UK keys are used by only about 19% of ISO users and 3% of all users (source; it's actually less than that for full ISO-UK).

With that in mind, I would like to suggest dropping the following keys from the base kit:

• R1 `¬¦ (mod-colored)
• R1 `¬¦ (alpha-colored)
• R1 2"
• R1 3£
• R1 4$€
• R3 '@
• R3 #~
• R4 \|

And instead adding the following (all 1u):

• R3 ’ ‛
• R3 ” ‟
• R4 <> (as seen on other Xerox keyboards, and many other terminal boards from the era)

By doing this, not only do you save a whole bunch of keys, but the set also remains truer to the original inspiration.

On a personal note, I love seeing vintage-inspired sets that include quirky keys from the original keyboards. Some examples are SA 8010 and KAT Extended APL. I'd love to see this set join that list

Edit: fixed link

Thanks for the information! Right now I'm set on keeping UK ISO as is, moving some of the keys into a NorDeUK kit.

The "Keyboard" cap is amazing

I agree . It's one of my favorite keys from the OG board!

I would love the full kit for the cyrillic that includes all the numbers

Sorry, no plans to add additional keys. I'll be using the existing Cyrillic sublegends that ePBT already has.

Wish this was CRP

Sorry to disappoint. I tried reaching out to Hammer, but I never received a reply. As I've stated before, I'm cautiously optimistic that ePBT will be able to resolve many of the issues people have with their new molds.

Love this. I'm in.

Wish Nomad had preonic pipe

Sorry no plans to add additional keys outside of a NorDeUK set right now.

[nu_types]

Lovely set. Wish it made in GMK. This would lead to dropping sublegend kits but at least we have a decent quality.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree, specifically because the most recent GMK sets have been really bad in terms of quality. My 9009 has really bad flashing and my 7u spacebar is unusable. In the past I would have agreed with you.

I think the same can be said for ePBT sets as well though..

I'll repeat what I said in a previous comment. Warped pbt space bars can easily be heated up and flattened. Afaik, abs can't.

So do you justify the warped spacebars of ePBT because they can be flattened? Also, if you want PBT, then Infinikey is a better choice from ePBT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Not sure I agree about Infinikey being better than ePBT. The Infinikey set I have has the tightest keycaps I have ever seen. Like it takes a long time to remove a single cap off a switch because you have to gently rock it for a long time as straight up pulling them with a keycap puller will not pull them out. I use soldered PCBs only, but the caps are so tight it would probably pull up the whole switch on a hotswap board.

Every company making keycaps has some compromise or another these days. From what I read in another Discord channel GMK has settled on this current issue being within their tolerances and they are not going to be replacing people's spacebars.

What I'm wondering is the hot water fix for ePBT spacebars permanent? Or do they slowed go back to their old shape? I only have an older 9009 set from them and the spacebar is so mildly warped I never bothered attempting anything.

Yes the fix is permanent

It's how the plastic works
Basically what happens is you are "warping" it back into normal shape ~ ~ Since it's a rigid plastic it won't change shape

Got it, thanks.

nu_types - why no text mod for "shift" and "lock" (even without LED window) in the novelties set? I feel like this would tie in the intended design even more.

I get what you mean, however, I personally feel that icons work better. My goal isn't to recreated the original set exactly, but to make a modernized cherry-style version of it. If I were running this as an Alps set, and my primary goal was to make a modernized replica, I would use text only for those keys.

[konstantin]

The Hiragana and Cyrillic kits are currently suffering from a few issues/inconsistencies with their legends.

Hiragana

• The R1 -_ほ key is missing a ー sublegend in the top right (example). This character is a Japanese prolonged sound mark (not a dash), and it is required for correct coverage of standard ANSI-based JP layouts.

• The ¥ sign should be removed from the pipe keys because including it together with kana sublegends is inaccurate.

• The pipe legends in the Hiragana kit should be changed from ¦ to | for consistency with the rest of the set.

• The R4 \¦む¥ key should be changed to <>ろ, and a R3 \|む key should be added for proper coverage of JIS/ISO layouts. See this diagram and the notes at the bottom.

• For further coverage of JIS boards, two more keys can be added: R1 `~ー and R1 半 / 全 (the latter can also be a text novelty; refer to the above diagram for details). I would say that including these keys is optional, but since this is EPBT and extra keys are cheap, why not offer more complete support for Japanese keyboards if you're offering a kit with Japanese characters?

Cyrillic

• The Ё sublegend on the tilde key should be moved to the bottom right so that it's consistent with the other alphas. Here's a reference for the ANSI/Russian layout:
  
  
  
  The explanation is simple: Alpha sublegends (А, Б, В, ... Ё) go in the bottom right corner. Currently, Ё is the only odd one out.

• Similarly, the / sublegend on the pipe keys should be moved to the top right.
  
  Explanation: The pipe key on the Russian layout works as follows: it produces a \ on the base layer (same as US ANSI) and / when shifted. For comparison, the 3 key produces 3 on base (same as US ANSI) and № when shifted. The № sublegend is in the top-right corner because that's how the Russian layout differs from US ANSI. So / should be in the top-right corner as well. Otherwise, it implies that the Russian key is /|, which is incorrect.
  
  Existing GMK and EPBT Russian sets, which is probably what you were looking at when you were putting this kit together, got these two things wrong and just copied Cherry's old (and incorrect) legends. An example of a new set that does it right is PBT Blue Cyrillic. Cherry actually also fixed the Ё in some of their later models, but the incorrect / positioning remained.

• For correct ISO-RU support, the R4 1u \| / key should be moved from R4 to R3. This will then combine with the R4 \| UK key from base to provide correct support for ISO-RU layouts. See above image.

[konstantin]

Thanks for the information! Right now I'm set on keeping UK ISO as is, moving some of the keys into a NorDeUK kit.

Alright In that case please consider adding the R3 ’ ‛ and ” ‟ keys to the novelties kit!

[nu_types]

PBT 1u convex space keys? Even if this doesn't have a colevrak set, I have to join it now.

Actually, this might be a render mistake. I'll need to make sure that ePBT can offer convex 1u.

Small update here: KBDfans confirmed that the 1u convex keys will not be available with the current/new tooling. So these will be standard 1u keys, I hope that's alright with those that were interested in this detail.

[vsrnth]

any chance we'll see a colevrak kit?

[zekth]

Looks great. I've been thinking about joining the PBT gang since gmk can no longer deliver flat space bars

buddy banana bars originated with PBT

I am aware. But at least with pbt I can just heat them up and flatten them.

ePbt is in the process of making new molds to fix this issue.

[marks_]

Great news on the NorDe kit - thank you! 🙏

[kiandelmundo]

Yes this would be so good with crp, hoping epbt will do this kit justice though

[Ensaum]

Looks great. I've been thinking about joining the PBT gang since gmk can no longer deliver flat space bars

buddy banana bars originated with PBT

I am aware. But at least with pbt I can just heat them up and flatten them.

ePbt is in the process of making new molds to fix this issue.

Woop!

[vincenttngo1]

I see hirigana sublegends, I buy.

Looks really good!

[Rayndalf]

two line 'print screen' instead of one line 'prt sc' plz

[Onnimar]

I'm in. Love the kitting. Any chance for a F13 key?

Edit: I second the two line "print screen" as to match the scroll lock and pause break keys.