[IC] Pandora - The 1 Percent 60% - GB Sept 12th! - Group Buy post made

[Koobaczech]

Appreciate you bud! While I don't want to get ahead of myself, the most important thing to me before selling this is making sure its perfect come GB time. Down the road, I will try to make it available to everyone, but things will most likely be limited quantity FCFS (first come first serve) or a series of raffles! :]

[NoxNoxNox]

Seems like a hybrid of 1/60 + e6v2.

Really leans on both of those designs.

Especially the bottom weight and the side lighting

[CYFX]

Oh god, finally!! I can’t wait for this. Hopefully I can get in on GB. I’ve been watching your stories on Instagram and just dreaming of owning this board. Some really great features, I love the USB 2.0 pass through and the placement of the encoder.

[Visionaire]

A few subjective notes:

One of the things that sticks out to me are the bottom case screw holes. They pour over the edge of the case ever so slightly. Not a huge deal but might be worth considering moving them slightly more inward. Or enlarging the bezel(s) bit.

The rotary encoder on the back of the case is an interesting design element. Seems like a bit of an awkward spot to have it but I personally kind of like it. If people elect not to have it will there be a "badge" of sorts to fill the hole in the case?

I know the underside of the winglets are to allow led shine through, but will they have some sort of pc/acrylic cover over the holes? Would make picking up the case more comfortable.

Are there any pictures of the bottom of the Polycarb version? I assume this comes with the same weight as well?

Lastly, is there a Discord to keep up with updates?

I'll be watching this very closely. I love the design. There's some interesting things going on with this board. GLWIC!

Thanks for the comments Kimchi! I will be scrutinizing the final designs closely don't worry! For the encoder, its all go or no go! There's no way to fill that hole cleanly if no encoder sits there, especially since the hole is filleted like a velocity stack (google it). Also, It"s actually super natural to reach for it in the back, just try making the movements yourself you will see! For the winglets, my original Pandora had polycarbonate inserts in the winglets! I noticed they pop in if you pick the board up and poke them, AND they don't diffuse light down how I want them to. So I elected to leave them out in the redesign! Just have to be careful with the board. I will be taking more photos, but yes its the same as the Alu. You can make the weight out of any material you want, that's just what I did for the protos. No discord, there are already so many discords! Just here and IG are best places to follow. Thanks again!!

Very nice design and a unique 10 degree typing angle! And rationale on why the steeper angle?

Ty Craft! I love the angle paired with a wrist wrest, plus the aesthetics of the angled board! Just a personal detail I guess!

Hate to be debbie downer here, but that bottom is a KC No1. The design language of the sides and badge still look like Exclusive's work. People can feel free to buy whatever they want, but this board resembles a knock-off / clone IMO.

It's alright Visionaire, no downing here. I/we all respect your shared opinion as well as the hard work of other designers! I've mentioned them in my inspirations section and love their work!

Everyone else who has left wonderful comments and opinions, thank you for the tireless support and I'm happy to see everyone's faces and names again! I will be posting more content in the days to come!

Thanks for understanding.

I also think this work is close enough to other designer's work that perhaps the requirement here is more than simply stating that you were inspired by them, but also hearing that those folks are ok with your choices. I'm not sure they would be, just as they weren't when you ran your original IC. Your prototypes here are close enough to other people's work that a quick glance easily recognizes those design elements and brings their work to mind. This isn't cool, imo. I'll avoid any 'legal' topics of protections here (for the moment), but I think this goes beyond the level of 'inspiration' from my view.



 

[Koobaczech]

Thanks for understanding.

I also think this work is close enough to other designer's work that perhaps the requirement here is more than simply stating that you were inspired by them, but also hearing that those folks are ok with your choices. I'm not sure they would be, just as they weren't when you ran your original IC. Your prototypes here are close enough to other people's work that a quick glance easily recognizes those design elements and brings their work to mind. This isn't cool, imo. I'll avoid any 'legal' topics of protections here (for the moment), but I think this goes beyond the level of 'inspiration' from my view.

You're welcome! And this interest check is here to flush out any worries and concerns anyone has!

Just look at Pearl. It was based off a Jd45 but improved upon it. There was nothing wrong with that, in fact an amazing board came out of it. Maybe you should worry a little less about what Pandora is, and focus on what it isn't

Oh god, finally!! I can’t wait for this. Hopefully I can get in on GB. I’ve been watching your stories on Instagram and just dreaming of owning this board. Some really great features, I love the USB 2.0 pass through and the placement of the encoder.

Haha<3 Much love!

[Visionaire]

Thanks for understanding.

I also think this work is close enough to other designer's work that perhaps the requirement here is more than simply stating that you were inspired by them, but also hearing that those folks are ok with your choices. I'm not sure they would be, just as they weren't when you ran your original IC. Your prototypes here are close enough to other people's work that a quick glance easily recognizes those design elements and brings their work to mind. This isn't cool, imo. I'll avoid any 'legal' topics of protections here (for the moment), but I think this goes beyond the level of 'inspiration' from my view.

You're welcome! And this interest check is here to flush out any worries and concerns anyone has!

Just look at Pearl. It was based off a Jd45 but improved upon it. There was nothing wrong with that, in fact an amazing board came out of it. Maybe you should worry a little less about what Pandora is, and focus on what it isn't

Oh god, finally!! I can’t wait for this. Hopefully I can get in on GB. I’ve been watching your stories on Instagram and just dreaming of owning this board. Some really great features, I love the USB 2.0 pass through and the placement of the encoder.

Haha<3 Much love!

I think there's a difference when the design element is so obvious that you do a double take. When people can clearly call out what the inspiration source at first glance. Clearly, you see no issue with this and maybe there's others who will buy your product and throw these aside. I won't be one of them.

I think you're a better designer than this and are capable of doing things that are more original.

I've said my piece. Good luck.

[Jetstream]

Hey!! This is looking tasty! Cant wait to see it enter GB! 😁😁😁

[Koobaczech]

I think there's a difference when the design element is so obvious that you do a double take. When people can clearly call out what the inspiration source at first glance. Clearly, you see no issue with this and maybe there's others who will buy your product and throw these aside. I won't be one of them.

I think you're a better designer than this and are capable of doing things that are more original.

I've said my piece. Good luck.

I seriously appreciate your comments Visionaire and understand the issues. I've been around for a while, especially in the design space, and learned that fiddling over what looks like what is just an endless rabbit hole. Things will always look alike. Theres an endless line of HHKB 40s, blocked 65s, Tkls, etc all sharing square weights, blocked keys, whatever. I can look at any board today and say, that looks like xx. If you like Keycult or Exclusive, go ahead and get their boards. Pandora is not deminishing anyones work, and discarding its worth over design language is where I think you and the others differ. Please don't be upset, and as a final comment, while I love originality, I also love the inspirations taken from the other designers. I want those things, you gotta understand that. They are there because they've done an amazing job and I love what they have brought to the table.

[Visionaire]

I think there's a difference when the design element is so obvious that you do a double take. When people can clearly call out what the inspiration source at first glance. Clearly, you see no issue with this and maybe there's others who will buy your product and throw these aside. I won't be one of them.

I think you're a better designer than this and are capable of doing things that are more original.

I've said my piece. Good luck.

I seriously appreciate your comments Visionaire and understand the issues. I've been around for a while, especially in the design space, and learned that fiddling over what looks like what is just an endless rabbit hole. Things will always look alike. Theres an endless line of HHKB 40s, blocked 65s, Tkls, etc all sharing square weights, blocked keys, whatever. I can look at any board today and say, that looks like xx. If you like Keycult or Exclusive, go ahead and get their boards. Pandora is not deminishing anyones work, and discarding its worth over design language is where I think you and the others differ. Please don't be upset, and as a final comment, while I love originality, I also love the inspirations taken from the other designers. I want those things, you gotta understand that. They are there because they've done an amazing job and I love what they have brought to the table.

"Things will always look alike"

We're not talking about two people designing a square or adding a layout. The images above didn't happen by chance. They were purposely incorporated into your work and now are being sold as your design. There is a big difference between the two.

This is what you presented 2 years ago as the bottom of this case



And now, it has the same shape 'inspired' by a brand that build itself while you were on hiatus from this project...

Again, its an interest check and you want feedback: here's mine: Design your own product and don't rip off other people's work. You're capable, and this isn't just some accident. We shouldn't be 'ok' with this just as we shouldn't be ok with Fanoes sold on Taobao. Its a matter of integrity in a small hobby.

[Koobaczech]

I hear you Visionaire! Thanks for your opinions. Apart from your comments, what are your thoughts on the encoder and hub?

[Visionaire]

I hear you Visionaire! Thanks for your opinions. Apart from your comments, what are your thoughts on the encoder and hub?

Hub is a neat creature comfort to have on a keeb. I'd like it.

Knob is in a strange position for me, personally.

[Koobaczech]

The hub was such a nightmare to make x! I've been toying around with 3.0 but its so complicated, and so little room to work with when theres screws running along the edges and metal everywhere haha

[Clay333]

I like it. I will keep an eye on it. Maybe just change the shape of the weight. That would go a long way making it different from the KC no1 while not changing the performance. I could live without the encoder, but it isn't a negative either. I do like the USB pass through please just make sure it is full power for using as a phone charger. Any idea how many you are going to make? Good luck with the GB

[Koobaczech]

Thanks bud! Definitely a forward thinking move! Yes sir. And unsure! Hopefully enough to make everyone happy! Heres a video of the encoder i took for anyone interested in how it works -

[jerrolds]

Board looks amazing - the protos came out so nice - good job!

[Crack85]

Sick

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[Sshimosawa]

+2


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[qriousgabriel]

I see Koob, I jump on board. Wouldn’t want to miss out on this board.

[isaiasr212]

Probably one of the biggest biggest triple biggest fan of this project. Been following this ever since it started. My heart will be broken if I don’t get one . Hoping this is not a raffle.

[KingOfMemes]

Probably one of the biggest biggest triple biggest fan of this project. Been following this ever since it started. My heart will be broken if I don’t get one . Hoping this is not a raffle.

same, hopefully it's fcfs

[CGreat]

Thanks for understanding.

I think there's a difference when the design element is so obvious that you do a double take. When people can clearly call out what the inspiration source at first glance. Clearly, you see no issue with this and maybe there's others who will buy your product and throw these aside. I won't be one of them.

I think you're a better designer than this and are capable of doing things that are more original.

I've said my piece. Good luck.

Yea i agree with Visionaire here. Thank you for saying this. I immediately thought "that's a keycult no 1 bottom". And for that reason, i'm out.

[Lulzthax_]

GL with the IC Mate! Been thoroughly enjoying the culmination of your big brane ideas that are incorporated in this project 

[Diggidy]

I think it's a gorgeous board, and I like a lot of the design features. I can see an element of the KC no1, but I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say it's a direct copy.

The rotary on the back is kind of odd for me, and I don't see it being super convenient to use for turning volume up/down, increasing/decrease brush sizes in things like capture1/PS, etc. Not really any other place to put it on this board though, obviously. I think the design elements of this board would be a lot nicer in a 65% or 75%, where you'd have more space to implement a USB 3.0 passthrough as well as put the rotary on the top. I'm much more partial to 75%/TKL, so that's just my bias though. No doubt there will be a lot of fans of this as is, and go very quick in the current GB market.

Good luck!

[Manticzeus]

Thanks for understanding.

I think there's a difference when the design element is so obvious that you do a double take. When people can clearly call out what the inspiration source at first glance. Clearly, you see no issue with this and maybe there's others who will buy your product and throw these aside. I won't be one of them.

I think you're a better designer than this and are capable of doing things that are more original.

I've said my piece. Good luck.

Yea i agree with Visionaire here. Thank you for saying this. I immediately thought "that's a keycult no 1 bottom". And for that reason, i'm out.

I disagree entirely. You can easily tell the inspiration, sure, but that bottom design is practically the same as his original IC, just with a larger radius on the bends. The bottom creates a similar aesthetic as the No.1 for sure, but the design language of the board hasn't changed much since his previous IC, which was before the No.1 if I am not mistaken. The weight has definite No.1 vibes but it is very obviously not the same. He just took the first letter of his named and used that to create the "split weight" look. The K has been on his plates and was on the inside of the weight in his first IC in the same style. I don't even find these weights to be that similar tbh, as the design serves different purposes.

There are so many boards using badges/nameplates/mid accents that I don't even think it worth bringing up (I thought it was silly in the first IC), these are designs that the entire community has enjoyed and we have seen it repeated on many boards because of that.

If this turns you off from the board, thats ok! Don't get the board, I just wanted to point out that it is not blatant copying or ripping off the designs. IMO this board brings enough to the table that it seperates itself from other boards just by the feature list it comes with while also taking great design queues from successful boards before it. I view this very much the same way I view the chimera65, a mash up of great things from various boards with its own twist on them.

[lan_lach]

I think this board looks great. I would definitely be interested. My only suggestion would be that the encoder was shorter and instead wider.

[Hedgey]

Imagine getting angry about a design inspiration, when it isn't even yours.

Way too many people spend too much time worrying about what others might think.  Yes, it's clear where the inspiration came from, but unless you are Keycult or Exclusive, stop riding their coat tails.  It's not your job unless you own a stake in their business. 

Anyway, the board looks amazing dude.  10 degree angle is intense, but I think I badly want to try that out.

[Psyoshi]

I find this board gorgeous, been following it for awhile in Florida Mech Keys. I can see the hesitation and comparison to the KC weight, which thankfully they acknowledged and said they are cool with. When I first glanced over the IC I didn't read it though, I looked at pictures. I thought this was a gorgeous PC board with chonking weight and RGB, and knew K for Kooba. Didn't even think KC till someone else said it (maybe a bit of confirmation bias formed after hearing that). But this gets into the realm of the world of keycaps currently. At a certain point you can only cut a rectangle so many ways. We are going to have a lot of "This looks like X and Y". It's a nice board and I look forward to seeing how the revisions and tweaks come out.

[ramnes]

Looking good!

[nettik]

Wow it's been a long time since I've seen this board! I'm personally not liking the rotary encoder, it's location is meh. Everything else looks great though! I do hope you'll do FCFS or allow for more runs in the future.

Also, I know this thread is for Pandora, but would you ever consider another run of the Pearl?

[dantambok]

woah that's super cool! and colored poly looks amazing 

[Axariel]

I think that if you want a more peripheral placement for a rotary encoder, I would be more happy with it being on the side of the keyboard. Still think this keyboard looks pretty great though.

And I do see the comparison to the work of a certain other designer, but in the grand scheme of things, there is enough that is different here that I am not going to stress out over the similarity.

[Zaum.Tech]

Beautiful design, and pretty awesome seeing more people getting back to polycarb case designs, with some rgb elements - lots of interesting design choices that can be made there. Good luck with the gb, some great stuff here dude!

[adamjohari]

Looks awesome to me. Come on people, you really telling me that if you saw this board from top to bottom you would confuse it with a KC? I think the op already went out of his way to contact KC and get their blessings even though he didn't really need it.

[audax989]

been a long time coming man. I passed up on the pearl back then. but I won't be missing this one.

[CGreat]

Looks awesome to me. Come on people, you really telling me that if you saw this board from top to bottom you would confuse it with a KC? I think the op already went out of his way to contact KC and get their blessings even though he didn't really need it.

He had not done this until after we commented on the similarities. That being said, i'm glad he did reach out to KC and they gave him their blessing. GLWIC

[Hedgey]

Looks awesome to me. Come on people, you really telling me that if you saw this board from top to bottom you would confuse it with a KC? I think the op already went out of his way to contact KC and get their blessings even though he didn't really need it.

He had not done this until after we commented on the similarities. That being said, i'm glad he did reach out to KC and they gave him their blessing. GLWIC

Who cares?  Why are you invested in that?  Again, I ask why people feel the need to stick their necks out for companies that they have no part of?  It's so strange to me.

[Wilba]

Looks awesome to me. Come on people, you really telling me that if you saw this board from top to bottom you would confuse it with a KC? I think the op already went out of his way to contact KC and get their blessings even though he didn't really need it.

He had not done this until after we commented on the similarities. That being said, i'm glad he did reach out to KC and they gave him their blessing. GLWIC

Who cares?  Why are you invested in that?  Again, I ask why people feel the need to stick their necks out for companies that they have no part of?  It's so strange to me.

They're willing to stick their necks out because designers being plagiarized don't like sticking their necks out by calling out plagiarism.

I don't even like sticking my neck out by pointing that out.

[KingOfMemes]

Looks awesome to me. Come on people, you really telling me that if you saw this board from top to bottom you would confuse it with a KC? I think the op already went out of his way to contact KC and get their blessings even though he didn't really need it.

He had not done this until after we commented on the similarities. That being said, i'm glad he did reach out to KC and they gave him their blessing. GLWIC

Who cares?  Why are you invested in that?  Again, I ask why people feel the need to stick their necks out for companies that they have no part of?  It's so strange to me.

They're willing to stick their necks out because designers being plagiarized don't like sticking their necks out by calling out plagiarism.

I don't even like sticking my neck out by pointing that out.

LOL ya'll should get over that. That's silly that you would rather wait for an army of your followers to call out plagiarism of your work rather than calling it out yourself. It's YOUR work. If someone is jacking it, why not defend yourself?

[tr0yr0x]

Board looks gorgeous! I'll be following this IC.

[Koobaczech]

Thanks for all the positive messages and concerns everyone! Whatever's been said or not said, these boards are incredible and I'm so happy to be daily driving them and have an opportunity to get them out to everyone in the near future. Working diligently on getting prices, proxies and working on minor redesigns to make everyone happy! In the meantime here's a video of the Pink Poly board flexing

[JCraftCables]

Really dope that you even reached out to Keycult and happy to hear that they gave the go ahead! At the end of the day, it is also about sharing the joy of these custom boards to the growing pool of hobbyist! A single brand could never do that on its own!

[Koobaczech]

Keycult told me they were knee deep in Quality Control, and hopped on just to converse with me about the topic. Just speaks for itself about how much fervor they have for well being of the custom mech community. And I don't mean that in the sense of they gave me their blessings or anything along those lines. I mean it in the sense that they have such a large presence and handle that responsibility in the best matter in which they can.

[Visionaire]

Looks awesome to me. Come on people, you really telling me that if you saw this board from top to bottom you would confuse it with a KC? I think the op already went out of his way to contact KC and get their blessings even though he didn't really need it.

He had not done this until after we commented on the similarities. That being said, i'm glad he did reach out to KC and they gave him their blessing. GLWIC

Who cares?  Why are you invested in that?  Again, I ask why people feel the need to stick their necks out for companies that they have no part of?  It's so strange to me.

The same reason you're invested in expressing your concern. It's an open forum for discussion, and if people are concerned about something, they're going to bring it up. I've spoken directly with Koob. He's listened. I don't know if he's going to change anything or not, but I do feel that a community only retains it's strength / identity when people within that community ask questions and challenge things.

This is actually not that uncommon. You see people's feedback all the time in other ICs challenging things like:
- Whether a colorway is unique
- If someone else has already designed something
- If the market needs something
- If the runner is experienced enough to pull something off

When these things are brought up by members of the community, it's done in the interest of sharing their concerns about that particular activity.

Why do you feel the need to try and silence that? Do you feel like Koob can't defend himself? Are you riding his coat tails? See how that works? He's an adult who can handle the discussion. Your entry intot he conversation for the sake of your opinion is no different.

With that being said, back to your normal IC programming.

Feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to talk more about it. Discord: Visionaire#4795

[Koobaczech]

Visionaire's right, no matter what feelings are being thrown around so far. Should have consulted with the other folk sooner. I really don't even know why I didn't, with so much work it probably just slipped my mind as I was in full prototype mode once again. After so many countless hours poured into design, it's hard to not call something yours and write it off as an inspiration. While the previous sentence is not a justification, I do realize threads like these are important in having the fine line be set for us all. Heres a pic too, i forgot to show the laser engraved rose on my encoder knobs

[Eggplant]

I'm sad to see the original design change so dramatically, since that is what originally drew me in, but I'm still very much excited! 

[o3okevin]

How would the knob do inside something like a TX Bag? I could see it interfering with the bag foam, or being a potential point of failure if too much pressure is applied.

[Koobaczech]

Thanks eggplant, maybe I'll send you my original Pandora haha!

How would the knob do inside something like a TX Bag? I could see it interfering with the bag foam, or being a potential point of failure if too much pressure is applied.

Kevin! I've actually messed around with that and there are some things to be said. First off, the encoder is in there really good, bolted on with two M3 screws. It can poke around and not break. Obviously you don't want to do this with the Polycarbonate version as it can be very fragile and rip the screws out (maybe idk), but the Aluminum version is a tank. I doubt it will break. If it does, the part to fix shouldn't be bad. I can always send a new encoder with the pcb it goes on, and you just reconnect it via the cable. The way I designed the knobs, is that they are very tight so you can push/pull them on and off the encoder without the need for a hex screw to tighten it down. So I simply pull it off, store it and pack it. You can also probably pad the back wall with like a sock or foam and fix it all together. Heres a photo in my KBDfans soft-shell case. NOTE, its barely touching as it sits. The width is perfect for this case. The 10u cracks me up every time too, its amazing

[o3okevin]

Thanks eggplant, maybe I'll send you my original Pandora haha!

How would the knob do inside something like a TX Bag? I could see it interfering with the bag foam, or being a potential point of failure if too much pressure is applied.

Kevin! I've actually messed around with that and there are some things to be said. First off, the encoder is in there really good, bolted on with two M3 screws. It can poke around and not break. Obviously you don't want to do this with the Polycarbonate version as it can be very fragile and rip the screws out (maybe idk), but the Aluminum version is a tank. I doubt it will break. If it does, the part to fix shouldn't be bad. I can always send a new encoder with the pcb it goes on, and you just reconnect it via the cable. The way I designed the knobs, is that they are very tight so you can push/pull them on and off the encoder without the need for a hex screw to tighten it down. So I simply pull it off, store it and pack it. You can also probably pad the back wall with like a sock or foam and fix it all together. Heres a photo in my KBDfans soft-shell case. NOTE, its barely touching as it sits. The width is perfect for this case. The 10u cracks me up every time too, its amazing

Show Image

The removable knob is a great touch! Very nice board, looking forward to seeing this happen  :thumb:

[Jaxxstatic]

I'm super happy this is finally happening. I owned a Pearl and loved it. I've been waiting for this, passing up other 60% boards for over a year because since owning that Pearl, I knew that Pandora would be a grail.

But I agree that the bottom of the board is a disappointment. Not that it's not beautiful--it is.
But I have changed designs of my own boards because other people got it out first.
What I mean is: I didn't copy them. But they just happened to come up with a parallel design element and release theirs before I got the chance.
That doesn't make my design derivative, but it does contribute less to the community if I just stick to my guns and put it out as a GB. As a designer, it's a disappointment. Especially when it's something I've been refining for months and months.
But I know I have it in me to just come out with something else. Change it enough to make it worth putting my name on it and not having people immediately think of someone else.

I think that's what Visionaire is getting at--we all know you have it in you to change up the design enough to make us think of Koob instead of Keycult.

[Koobaczech]

What do you guys think? Made the winglets more compact and changed the weight look!