geekhack Community > Keyboards
Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
HungerMechanic:
--- Quote from: pr0ximity on Sat, 30 October 2021, 22:05:11 ---
It gets better with a lighter spring weight :cool:
I think browns really excel with a light spring (below 62g bottom-out) and a light typist. If you're heavy-handed or like heavy springs, I imagine the tactility would barely register.
--- End quote ---
I personally would not have used 72 G springs as this person did, even though they are Progressive springs. The top press might end up feeling like a stock Durock Light Tactile, which uses 67 G springs, probably too heavy for a light Brown.
But I see why he did it, and respect it. 72 G Progressive offers more of a 'curved' progressive trajectory than the lighter Progressive springs, so it will still be relatively light at the top and only concentrate force at the bottom.
68 G Progressive is fine for Ergo Clears, tends to operate well-enough and not much beyond Brown-weight. I am in the process of maybe preparing 63.5 G Progressive Ergo Clears for a plateless build. Those should be some light-typing Ergo Clears.
I agree with the low spring weight for Browns. I like Durock Light Tactile / Pewter at about ~57 G 15mm. Even 60 G 14mm is heavier than I would like those. For Everglide Jades, stock 58.5 G is a great weight for the alphas, although maybe too light for heavier keys. I've been experimenting with Ergo Browns [MX Brown in OUTEMU linear housings] at about 55 G, and they can be great.
Surprisingly, I haven't tried 63.5 Progressive in Browns themselves, although I did in TTC Watermelon Milkshake [heavy Browns]. It almost worked, but I think those TTC switches need about 65 G Progressive, which I don't have access to.
Leopard223:
So.. I'm sorry for reviving this thread but I'm pretty interested in trying MX Browns, I've seen force graphs and comments here that say the Hyperglides are a bit heavier, I'm used to 55g bottom out linears.
I wonder what would people recommend in 2023? should I get the Hyperglides or should I get the "regular" retooled Browns? they're in similar prices.
Maledicted:
Hunger Mechanic will probably know. He tries all of that stuff. PM him if he doesn't see this.
I did actually finally try some retooled browns and I can actually feel tactility when typing at a normal pace on them instead of them just feeling gritty like in my old Rosewill board. I can see why somebody might like the retooled ones. Haven't tried hyperglides.
HungerMechanic:
I'd like to help, but I have only limited experience with these variants.
I tested about 10 Hyperglides when they came out. Feel-wise, they are okay, and go well with GMK keycaps.
However, they sounded very gritty. Also, there have been sporadic reports that Hyperglide housings are kinda messed-up, dimensionally-speaking. They may have interference with Cherry-profile, specifically GMK. However, anytime anyone sits down to investigate this, they can't find the problem. So it may not exist.
The original retooled Browns, when they came out circa 2017, received rave reviews. They were less-scratchy than the older 2012-2016 era pre-tooled Browns. And the tactile bump seemed more well-defined. I personally think that good retooled Browns may be the best modern Browns. I don't have experience with any switches specifically labelled as such, but a relative has a Varmilo custom store TKL from 2018 that has relatively good Browns in it. They feel 'clean' and 'clear,' and the tactile bump is thin but fairly-defined.
In terms of availability and convenience, I would be tempted to get so-called "Butter Browns." They are usually Hyperglides given a half-million or so actuations. Sure, they cost more. But are you likely to find something as good or better in a reasonable amount of time? You can even get a lubed and filmed variant from Loobed Switches, although that is expensive.
Some of the early Hyperglides were good, and came in Ducky One 2 keyboards, if memory serves.
I guess one would have to buy a small bag of Hyperglides or retooled from AliExpress or something, and if they are good, buy more and continue with the work on them.
Personally, I would consider alternatives to Browns.
SP Star Meteor Orange are like some of the better Browns, as they are less scratchy than average, and have an 'icepick' like small but defined bump. They really improve with films and careful 3204. You can even use Cherry top-housings for a more Cherry-like nylon sound. I have a board like this, very good.
KTT Mallo are modeled after MX Brown. But they are KTT manufactured, so almost no scratch. The problem is, an MX Brown bump made from smooth moulds is almost linear. It is very soft. Like a marshmallow. You can get them with stock 55 G springs, which are fine. You have to lube at least the springs and leaf-area to remove extraneous noise. The factory-lube is very good for function, but not sound.
AKKO POM Brown are relatively new, and less is known about them. Some think that they are a little more tactile than MX Brown. I don't like the stock sound, the switches need lubing. They are obviously smoother than MX Browns.
So those are some things to consider. I would get into a position to 'try before you buy' with some samples, and find Browns that suit you. Replacing the Cherry springs with 55 G is a step in the right direction. If you want really poppy MX Browns, you can use 55 G 18mm mStone springs from AliExpress. They really powered the new Ergo Clears when I tried it. They're almost like those 63.5 G ThiccThocc DL springs.
You might want to check around this timestamp in the following thread for discussion of mounting styles:
https://www.keebtalk.com/t/light-tactile-switch-comparision/14773/66?u=hungermechanic
Leopard223:
--- Quote from: HungerMechanic on Fri, 03 March 2023, 10:05:27 ---MoreI'd like to help, but I have only limited experience with these variants.
I tested about 10 Hyperglides when they came out. Feel-wise, they are okay, and go well with GMK keycaps.
However, they sounded very gritty. Also, there have been sporadic reports that Hyperglide housings are kinda messed-up, dimensionally-speaking. They may have interference with Cherry-profile, specifically GMK. However, anytime anyone sits down to investigate this, they can't find the problem. So it may not exist.
The original retooled Browns, when they came out circa 2017, received rave reviews. They were less-scratchy than the older 2012-2016 era pre-tooled Browns. And the tactile bump seemed more well-defined. I personally think that good retooled Browns may be the best modern Browns. I don't have experience with any switches specifically labelled as such, but a relative has a Varmilo custom store TKL from 2018 that has relatively good Browns in it. They feel 'clean' and 'clear,' and the tactile bump is thin but fairly-defined.
In terms of availability and convenience, I would be tempted to get so-called "Butter Browns." They are usually Hyperglides given a half-million or so actuations. Sure, they cost more. But are you likely to find something as good or better in a reasonable amount of time? You can even get a lubed and filmed variant from Loobed Switches, although that is expensive.
Some of the early Hyperglides were good, and came in Ducky One 2 keyboards, if memory serves.
I guess one would have to buy a small bag of Hyperglides or retooled from AliExpress or something, and if they are good, buy more and continue with the work on them.
Personally, I would consider alternatives to Browns.
SP Star Meteor Orange are like some of the better Browns, as they are less scratchy than average, and have an 'icepick' like small but defined bump. They really improve with films and careful 3204. You can even use Cherry top-housings for a more Cherry-like nylon sound. I have a board like this, very good.
KTT Mallo are modeled after MX Brown. But they are KTT manufactured, so almost no scratch. The problem is, an MX Brown bump made from smooth moulds is almost linear. It is very soft. Like a marshmallow. You can get them with stock 55 G springs, which are fine. You have to lube at least the springs and leaf-area to remove extraneous noise. The factory-lube is very good for function, but not sound.
AKKO POM Brown are relatively new, and less is known about them. Some think that they are a little more tactile than MX Brown. I don't like the stock sound, the switches need lubing. They are obviously smoother than MX Browns.
So those are some things to consider. I would get into a position to 'try before you buy' with some samples, and find Browns that suit you. Replacing the Cherry springs with 55 G is a step in the right direction. If you want really poppy MX Browns, you can use 55 G 18mm mStone springs from AliExpress. They really powered the new Ergo Clears when I tried it. They're almost like those 63.5 G ThiccThocc DL springs.
You might want to check around this timestamp in the following thread for discussion of mounting styles:
https://www.keebtalk.com/t/light-tactile-switch-comparision/14773/66?u=hungermechanic
--- End quote ---
I once had a sample of SP Star Meteor Orange, didn't like it too much, though I'm pretty locked on Cherry MX to try the Cherry "experience".
The MX Brown sample I have (which I assume it the "regular" retooled) its pretty nice, compared to the Cherry MX Black and Red samples I have, a bit smoother than them, even when the Brown switch is stock and the linear ones are lubed with 3204.
Getting samples would cost me as much as a pack so I guess I'll try the Hyperglides.
I've read one of your comments mentioning the Hyperglides being heavier, is that significant or is it still light?
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