[IC] GMK >Terminal_ NOW LIVE

[pon10]

How is the international kit doing? Will it be bumped if it almost reaches MOQ?

I think the GB is gonna go for a month, so i guess this is pretty early to now whats gonna happen with it.. i am in for a international kit too..

We will pick up the slack for the essentials kit but we need to sell at least 125 of them. We're not even close.

Base has almost hit MOQ.

What happened to the guy that said he'd buy 5 just to make it drop?


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125.. Damn.. you properly have under 15 international kit in at the moment i guess but hope is high! its good its a long GB so the international peeps have time to wake up from winter depression )

[m1kehonch0]

If we hit 250 MOQ, are there any price drop?

No. The pricing is based on the highest tier MOQ so the price will remain the same. We feel confident the set will sell big numbers so doing it this way makes the process easier and give everyone the best price out of the gate.


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[Mr_BeastQuake]

We will pick up the slack for the essentials kit but we need to sell at least 125 of them. We're not even close.

Base has almost hit MOQ.

What happened to the guy that said he'd buy 5 just to make it drop?


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The want to be studious business people is admirable. However, sometimes it's best to ignore people. Very excited for the set btw

[m1kehonch0]

How is the international kit doing? Will it be bumped if it almost reaches MOQ?

I think the GB is gonna go for a month, so i guess this is pretty early to now whats gonna happen with it.. i am in for a international kit too..

We will pick up the slack for the essentials kit but we need to sell at least 125 of them. We're not even close.

Base has almost hit MOQ.

What happened to the guy that said he'd buy 5 just to make it drop?


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125.. Damn.. you properly have under 15 international kit in at the moment i guess but hope is high! its good its a long GB so the international peeps have time to wake up from winter depression )

Pretty good guess!

We have done a lot to accommodate people in the international community but based on some of the comments, some are hard to please! I hope for the sake of the international community that the set hits MOQ. If it doesn't, it may discourage others from doing the same.



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[pomk]

I'd buy some 2-3 sets, but I cannot justify a 282 USD keyset that has some wrong legends in it. I would tolerate missing tertiary legends on some keys, but having wrong ones is too much for my minor OCD.
The international kit pictured before the GB began was a lot better in this aspect. I was also hoping that the VAT debacle could somehow be handled for this GB. Right now it raises the price for me by 60-80 USD.

What is your issue with the legends? Did you voice your opinion early on in the IC?

Vat debacle? There is no way around it, end users have to pay Vat. If you know of a [legal] way to circumvent paying Vat drop me a PM.


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I did not voice my opinion as the pictures of the international kit in the IC phase were spot on.

I understood that Leandren was hoping to do proxying or that we could have been able to catch the GMK shipment before it left for the states. This was not possible because GMK is willing to send only to the business who is paying for the order.

[wodan]

... I was also hoping that the VAT debacle could somehow be handled for this GB. Right now it raises the price for me by 60-80 USD.

You are calling your countries sales tax a "VAT debacle" that can "somehow be handled" ?

What you are saying:

"Why don't you do something illegal to help me avoid my countries taxes"

Stop asking/demanding GB runners to help you avoid taxes! You are asking/pushing people to break laws in their own country and/or help you break laws in your country.

How can it be held against a GB organizer when they are not providing any of this?

You are paying VAT on tons of things every day without making such a scene because you never see the net price. When buying stuff abroad you suddenly see the net price and realize "OMG I HAZ TO PAY VATZ" ... a little simple minded.

[pomk]

... I was also hoping that the VAT debacle could somehow be handled for this GB. Right now it raises the price for me by 60-80 USD.

You are calling your countries sales tax a "VAT debacle" that can "somehow be handled" ?

What you are saying:

"Why don't you do something illegal to help me avoid my countries taxes"

Stop asking/demanding GB runners to help you avoid taxes! You are asking/pushing people to break laws in their own country and/or help you break laws in your country.

How can it be held against a GB organizer when they are not providing any of this?

You are paying VAT on tons of things every day without making such a scene because you never see the net price. When buying stuff abroad you suddenly see the net price and realize "OMG I HAZ TO PAY VATZ" ... a little simple minded.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I was under the impression that the prices on TKC are VAT inclusive and I will have to pay them twice. Once in the states and once in Finland as part of the importing procedures. As GMK is in ETA, it could be possible to pay VAT only once and it was my understanding that it was something that was considered at some point in this GB with the help of Leandren.

I'm not trying to demand anything, I'm just sad to see the final price and how the international set was stripped of keys that I would have liked to see on my keyboard. 

Sorry for derailing the thread.

[m1kehonch0]

To clear this up: You, as a buyer, would pay VAT once the way it is being sold.

Had we used LeandreN as a proxy we would have had to pay it twice, negating the savings on shipping.


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[pomk]

To clear this up: You, as a buyer, would pay VAT once the way it is being sold.

Had we used LeandreN as a proxy we would have had to pay it twice, negating the savings on shipping.


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Sorry for continuing the discussion, but I'd be very interested to hear in detail where, at what stages and with what rates the VATs would have/are being paid now and how it would have been with Leandren proxying. Just to better understand the situation and to limit my ignorance. 

I'm apparently not familiar enough with tax/vat things outside of Europe.

[m1kehonch0]

To clear this up: You, as a buyer, would pay VAT once the way it is being sold.

Had we used LeandreN as a proxy we would have had to pay it twice, negating the savings on shipping.


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Sorry for continuing the discussion, but I'd be very interested to hear in detail where, at what stages and with what rates the VATs would have/are being paid now and how it would have been with Leandren proxying. Just to better understand the situation and to limit my ignorance. 

I'm apparently not familiar enough with tax/vat things outside of Europe.

No worries man. I had to get a book at the library to understand it myself.

VAT was never going to be circumvented in any way. Doing a proxy would have saved a little money on shipping. That's was why we considered it.

Hope this helps.


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[Data]

Pretty good guess!

We have done a lot to accommodate people in the international community but based on some of the comments, some are hard to please! I hope for the sake of the international community that the set hits MOQ. If it doesn't, it may discourage others from doing the same.



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The kit is very reasonably priced.  But honestly, I'll be super surprised if it meets that MOQ.  This happens way too often.  Euros want nice caps for their numerous ISO layouts but they don't show up on group buy day. 

PROVE ME WRONG, EUROGUYS!

[elfick]

I'm in the US, (sadly) only speak English, and don't use ISO and I'm in for for an international kit. Partly to help out the international peeps and partly because I'm working on a custom build and I can use 4 of the keys from the international kit. I figure that's still less than the $10/key that SP charges for individuals. Here's hoping it drops.... I still think we had a better chance of hitting MOQ for a Colevrak kit though. 

[m1kehonch0]

I'm in the US, (sadly) only speak English, and don't use ISO and I'm in for for an international kit. Partly to help out the international peeps and partly because I'm working on a custom build and I can use 4 of the keys from the international kit. I figure that's still less than the $10/key that SP charges for individuals. Here's hoping it drops.... I still think we had a better chance of hitting MOQ for a Colevrak kit though. 

Thank you for the support! We hope to see it drop, too!

Sorry for no Colevrak. Maybe next time!


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[pon10]

Pretty good guess!

We have done a lot to accommodate people in the international community but based on some of the comments, some are hard to please! I hope for the sake of the international community that the set hits MOQ. If it doesn't, it may discourage others from doing the same.



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The kit is very reasonably priced.  But honestly, I'll be super surprised if it meets that MOQ.  This happens way too often.  Euros want nice caps for their numerous ISO layouts but they don't show up on group buy day. 

PROVE ME WRONG, EUROGUYS!

WE WILL! i am on goodspeed with INT'L. XDA - Milestone with INT'L. (didn't have a MOQ do ) and this beautiful set with INT'L. keep the INT'L. kits coming! Europe is slowly waking up!

[Data]

Pretty good guess!

We have done a lot to accommodate people in the international community but based on some of the comments, some are hard to please! I hope for the sake of the international community that the set hits MOQ. If it doesn't, it may discourage others from doing the same.



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The kit is very reasonably priced.  But honestly, I'll be super surprised if it meets that MOQ.  This happens way too often.  Euros want nice caps for their numerous ISO layouts but they don't show up on group buy day. 

PROVE ME WRONG, EUROGUYS!

WE WILL! i am on goodspeed with INT'L. XDA - Milestone with INT'L. (didn't have a MOQ do ) and this beautiful set with INT'L. keep the INT'L. kits coming! Europe is slowly waking up!

[TheKeyCompany]

Pretty good guess!

We have done a lot to accommodate people in the international community but based on some of the comments, some are hard to please! I hope for the sake of the international community that the set hits MOQ. If it doesn't, it may discourage others from doing the same.



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The kit is very reasonably priced.  But honestly, I'll be super surprised if it meets that MOQ.  This happens way too often.  Euros want nice caps for their numerous ISO layouts but they don't show up on group buy day. 

PROVE ME WRONG, EUROGUYS!

WE WILL! i am on goodspeed with INT'L. XDA - Milestone with INT'L. (didn't have a MOQ do ) and this beautiful set with INT'L. keep the INT'L. kits coming! Europe is slowly waking up!

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[qn0x]

Please don't complain about Europeans not getting enough kits, buying a set as a European gets really expensive if you want to cover something other than ISO-UK. Getting the base kit and paying for US shipping sets you at about 200$. Add 30$ for the international kit, another 10-20$ for international shipping and, in my case, 19% taxes. That leaves you at ~290-300$. In the big picture it's still A LOT more for the 5-6 keys you need. No wonder those won't hit MOQ.

I still ordered the base kit, the international kit and a cable (my wallet is already crying in the corner) because I really really love that set. So...

[pon10]

We will make it happen!!! 




For the Danes stopping by THIS IS HOW NICE IT WILL LOOK!!

Just tried a clip an paste to see for the danish layout, I have no problem losing a few symbols to get my Æ Å Ø  an dot & comma is in the right place. When i have to do proper gramma

the hardest to loose is ( " ) , but i know where it is.. so it actually just makes the set look more clean

[Waateva]

Please don't complain about Europeans not getting enough kits, buying a set as a European gets really expensive if you want to cover something other than ISO-UK. Getting the base kit and paying for US shipping sets you at about 200$. Add 30$ for the international kit, another 10-20$ for international shipping and, in my case, 19% taxes. That leaves you at ~290-300$. In the big picture it's still A LOT more for the 5-6 keys you need. No wonder those won't hit MOQ.

I still ordered the base kit, the international kit and a cable (my wallet is already crying in the corner) because I really really love that set. So...

Show Image

What other option is there though?  If EU members want to have their various layouts covered that's fine, but usually the only way to have the multiple different layouts covered is to include an Intl kit, because including those keys in a base kit where 95% or more of the people ordering aren't going to use it makes even less sense. 

I understand your sentiment and can understand why EU members don't want to pay for them, but if you want kits that are less popular, the cost is going to be high just like shipping, VAT, and other things.  And think of it this way, you pay more than US members for keyboard stuff but US members pay way more for healthcare related things :)

[qn0x]

Please don't complain about Europeans not getting enough kits, buying a set as a European gets really expensive if you want to cover something other than ISO-UK. Getting the base kit and paying for US shipping sets you at about 200$. Add 30$ for the international kit, another 10-20$ for international shipping and, in my case, 19% taxes. That leaves you at ~290-300$. In the big picture it's still A LOT more for the 5-6 keys you need. No wonder those won't hit MOQ.

I still ordered the base kit, the international kit and a cable (my wallet is already crying in the corner) because I really really love that set. So...

Show Image

What other option is there though?  If EU members want to have their various layouts covered that's fine, but usually the only way to have the multiple different layouts covered is to include an Intl kit, because including those keys in a base kit where 95% or more of the people ordering aren't going to use it makes even less sense. 

I understand your sentiment and can understand why EU members don't want to pay for them, but if you want kits that are less popular, the cost is going to be high just like shipping, VAT, and other things.  And think of it this way, you pay more than US members for keyboard stuff but US members pay way more for healthcare related things :)

Yeah, it really sucks that there's so many different layouts but I'll happily spend the money if I think it's worth it :)
Still, I was thinking about getting an ANSI board and using AHK to get my ß,ö,ä and. Maybe it's worth a shot.

[tedk]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

[Mr_BeastQuake]

i know, this isnt 100% comparable

Then probably not worth comparing, ey?

[Waateva]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

Dolch and Stormtrooper both have 137 caps per set, while Terminal has 169.  Stormtrooper was specifically noted to be a low-cost GMk set, while Dolch and Terminal come within $0.04 of each other on a per-cap basis, so like you said they probably aren't 100% comparable

[tedk]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

Dolch and Stormtrooper both have 137 caps per set, while Terminal has 169.  Stormtrooper was specifically noted to be a low-cost GMk set, while Dolch and Terminal come within $0.04 of each other on a per-cap basis, so like you said they probably aren't 100% comparable

I rely on your cap counts:

Terminal: $159 / 169 caps = avg of $0.94 per cap.
Dolch: $117.40 (110€) / 139 caps = $0.84 per cap.
Stormtrooper: $100 / 139 caps = $0.72 per cap.


Both dolch and stormtrooper have standard legends, no additional molds required. Terminal has custom molds, i dont know the price they charge per mold.
The difference is 22 cent per cap, or $37.18. As said, this math on averages - and always GMK quality.

[TheKeyCompany]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

Dolch and Stormtrooper both have 137 caps per set, while Terminal has 169.  Stormtrooper was specifically noted to be a low-cost GMk set, while Dolch and Terminal come within $0.04 of each other on a per-cap basis, so like you said they probably aren't 100% comparable

I also wanted to remind people that there are 9 custom legends in the base kit. We really fought to get the best pricing for everyone, which is why we chose to price it at max MOQ. It's a gamble and we may not hit the top tier MOQ-wise, but we wanted to make the price reasonable while not losing our shirts. Believe me, if we could make it cheaper we would have. Kitting out the compatibility kits may please some people, but I hope it means the world to those who would not have the option to cover their boards had they been a separate kit missing MOQ.

We also wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their support, feedback, criticism, and just in general. Keep'em coming. It means a lot, really.

[Loft]

I think the custom molds for this set look great! They don't feel like traditional novelties to me, they blend in perfectly with the theme. Worth the price to me, and hopefully to the others on the buy.

In for a Base set, a cable, and two spacebar kits!

[Waateva]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

Dolch and Stormtrooper both have 137 caps per set, while Terminal has 169.  Stormtrooper was specifically noted to be a low-cost GMk set, while Dolch and Terminal come within $0.04 of each other on a per-cap basis, so like you said they probably aren't 100% comparable

I rely on your cap counts:

Terminal: $159 / 169 caps = avg of $0.94 per cap.
Dolch: $117.40 (110€) / 139 caps = $0.84 per cap.
Stormtrooper: $100 / 139 caps = $0.72 per cap.


Both dolch and stormtrooper have standard legends, no additional molds required. Terminal has custom molds, i dont know the price they charge per mold.
The difference is 22 cent per cap, or $37.18. As said, this math on averages - and always GMK quality.

Sorry about the Dolch price, didn't see that the shipping was included in the price so that skews price slightly, however, with custom molds I assume that cost is going to make up the difference.  Also, not all GMK pricing comes out equal and there is always some variance on the per-cap cost.  For example, I have included some recent sets, how many caps they included, their price and their per-cap pricing and they vary quite a bit overall:

GMK Monkey - 116 caps/$125/$1.07 per cap
GMK Skidata - 136 caps/$145/$1.06 per cap
GMK Hyperfuse - 124 caps/$115/$0.93 per cap
GMK 9009 - 140 caps/$140/$1.00 per cap
GMK Cyan - 118 caps/$122/$1.03 per cap

These are just a few I pulled up quickly, and compared to Terminal the pricing is on par or actually more expensive.

[pomk]

These are just a few I pulled up quickly, and compared to Terminal the pricing is on par or actually more expensive.

For GMK dolch the price is a lot lower, as it includes ETA VAT & shipping. For a German buying Terminal base set it will be around 218 EUR before it is on his doorstep. Almost double to Dolch. For someone in the states, I imagine they will cost around the same.

edit: note that dolch was a zero profit GB, which makes the comparison invalid.

[duynguyenle]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

The German Dolch set was specifically ran as a no-profit keyset, same with Stormtrooper (Manifex actually is probably in the red on that set, as shipping was more than he expected), so there is no comparison here. Also, both of those sets have fewer total cap count than this set, with no custom legends.

I'm not saying this set is not expensive (it is!), but in terms of value for money, you're not any worse off than the average GMK group buys

[tedk]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

The German Dolch set was specifically ran as a no-profit keyset, same with Stormtrooper (Manifex actually is probably in the red on that set, as shipping was more than he expected), so there is no comparison here. Also, both of those sets have fewer total cap count than this set, with no custom legends.

I'm not saying this set is not expensive (it is!), but in terms of value for money, you're not any worse off than the average GMK group buys

you realize we're talking about the sets not including shipping? or are you referencing shipping from germany->US?
Still, we are talking about average keycap price, so the absolute amount is irrelevant.

FYI: dolch and stormtrooper are nearly the same, but there is 12ct (*139) difference between the caps!

[duynguyenle]

FYI, $159 is a steep price. The ISO/ANSI-DE dolch GB is priced 117€ including shipping ( https://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1601148 ), the GMK stormtrooper GB ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0 ) is $100 plus shipping. i know, this isnt 100% comparable, but it gives you a hint how much the set really costs. If you do some price adjusting, im in!

The German Dolch set was specifically ran as a no-profit keyset, same with Stormtrooper (Manifex actually is probably in the red on that set, as shipping was more than he expected), so there is no comparison here. Also, both of those sets have fewer total cap count than this set, with no custom legends.

I'm not saying this set is not expensive (it is!), but in terms of value for money, you're not any worse off than the average GMK group buys

you realize we're talking about the sets not including shipping? or are you referencing shipping from germany->US?
Still, we are talking about average keycap price, so the absolute amount is irrelevant.

FYI: dolch and stormtrooper are nearly the same, but there is 12ct (*139) difference between the caps!

No, as in from the time of IC to the GB, currency fluctuations meant that Manifex lost money on the keysets at his $100 price point, and had to pull in a lot of his personal funds to make up for it, international shipping costing more than expected does not help either.

In any case, getting logistics, payments and coordination sorted for something like this is not free. Especially if it's a vendor. You can complain all you want about the price, but this is on par with most vendor-ran GMK sets recently. If you would like to organise your own low cost GMK buy, I'll chip in to support your efforts. As is, I don't really think it's an appropriate comparison to draw between community-ran no-profit sets vs vendor-backed sets.

[jchan94]

Good luck with this. Super hyped to see where it goes and what it gets put on.

[TheKeyCompany]

Now live in the GB forum

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86810.0