ABS, Rebranded Filco?

[itlnstln]

That's a great idea.  Perhaps we can get some Filco-like boards at much more reasonable prices.  I wonder if the black switches in this 'board are like the Dell AT-101Ws or if they are more like the white switches I have in my Northgate 'board.

[itlnstln]

BTW, looking at the pics on the previous page, the switches do not appear to have "Alps" printed on them, so I wonder if they are "Alps-compatible" switches.

[lowpoly]

The Alps switches on my Alps-made board don't have a name on them either.

[xsphat]

The Alps switches on my Alps-made board don't have a name on them either.

I have suspected that was the case for a while now. The switches on my Northgate were stamped Alps and other than the name, they looked identical to the unbranded switches in my MK96, and the switches in both feel so close that I have always believed them to be Alps made. The slight difference in feel and sound is most likely because one is 20 years and the other was bought NIB.

[itlnstln]

That's probably the case.  Besides us, who takes apart their keyboards to see who made the switches?  Alps probably removed the name-stamping part of the process as a cost-cutting measure at some point.

[alexlzl]

I did a close look at the switch, there is just a "5" on the upper left corner, a "K" on the upper right corner. There is nothing else printed.

BTW, looking at the pics on the previous page, the switches do not appear to have "Alps" printed on them, so I wonder if they are "Alps-compatible" switches.

[alexlzl]

if it's got alps switches then it's the filco zero, maybe we should make noise at this ABS place to bring over the other ones...

Totally a wonderful idea. I will start to request for Filco TenKeyLess from them. :-) I want a ergo/split mechanical keyboard without numpad so bad!

I just went to taobao.com, the largest online auction site in China. Surprisingly there are so many mechanical keyboards there (a search returned more than 400 items). Many are Filco, Plum, Cherry and an interesting one called Aron 109 made in Korea.

Wondering how come in US there is almost none mechanical keyboard market? Perhaps a good time to plan a trip to China.

[itlnstln]

Where's Chloe, the Google Champ, with an obscure web page showing what this switch is?

[lowpoly]

I did a close look at the switch, there is just a "5" on the upper left corner, a "K" on the upper right corner. There is nothing else printed.

Those numbers could be the only clues to determine wether a switch is a clone or not. That should be added to the switch reference. The Alps original/clone/Strongman issue appears every two weeks and we still don't know the answers. We have to solve this or we will be talking cluelessly about the same issue in years to come.

Alps probably removed the name-stamping part of the process as a cost-cutting measure at some point.

The board I mentioned is from ca. 1990.

[itlnstln]

Quote:
Alps probably removed the name-stamping part of the process as a cost-cutting measure at some point.  

The board I mentioned is from ca. 1990.

Scratch that...

[Chloe]

I suspect these switches are made by Strong Man (Sheng-chun) now. I posted an article that seemed to be saying as much. They don't have them to buy on any of the ALPS sites.

[wellington1869]

I suspect these switches are made by Strong Man (Sheng-chun) now. I posted an article that seemed to be saying as much. They don't have them to buy on any of the ALPS sites.

Chloe, does "sheng chun" actually mean "strong man"?

[alpslover]

alps doesn't always put their stamp on the top surface of the switch.  sometimes it's on one of the other sides, or even on the bottom which you can't see unless you remove the switch.  some older alps switches don't have the all caps 'ALPS' marking, rather it had their old logo which is a circle with 'Alps' written in cursive inside it, and the logo tends to be very small.

the color of the stems doesn't necessarily guarantee anything, either.  my alps glidepoint keyboard has white alps switches which you'd think would mean they're click tactile, but they're not.  they're soft tactile (they feel a lot like the black alps on dell keyboards, but without the roughness) with rubber dampers.

i'd buy one of these abs's to see how they feel compared to the alps keyboards i have, but newegg is out of stock.

[xsphat]

Totally a wonderful idea. I will start to request for Filco TenKeyLess from them. :-)

If they would make that in Alps, I would buy one quick as I bought this Topre 86 — the same day it comes out — and I wouldn't care if it had black or white switches.

[Chloe]

Chloe, does "sheng chun" actually mean "strong man"?

I don't know, it could be Google translation. Sometimes it is Chen-shung. On the Strong Man website it says 笙春企業股份有限公司 which means Chun Sheng Enterprise Co., Ltd.

The SMK-85 have Strong Man "ALPS Compatible" switches. Here's the article that mentions the discontinued ALPS:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://blog.dengzhe.com/article.asp?id=252

[xsphat]

The SMK-85 have Strong Man "ALPS Compatible" switches. Here's the article that mentions the discontinued ALPS:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://blog.dengzhe.com/article.asp?id=252

Not all of them, here's a pic of my old SMK85:

[Chloe]

Do you know when yours was made? The article said ALPS stopped making the keyboard switches ten years ago. My guess is the SMK-85 began with black ALPS, then switched to Strong Man when supplies ran out. It sounds like they had problems making these switches to begin with as some of them didn't click and some stuck.

[itlnstln]

I think it's been mentioned somewhere in the forum that that the SMK-85 switched to Strongmans some time ago, but the older versions had Alps.  Currently, the ones being made have Strongman switches.

[pex]

It also says on the box that the keyboard supports "simultaneous 6-key press".

If you would be so kind, do some testing for us.

Give it a 12-inch rule test.  Use a ruler to press the bottom Z-line, and the ~-line when plugged into a usb port.  Also, try some 6-key combos.

Then, hopefully you have a USB-to-PS/2 adapter lying around.  Use the adapter and give it the ruler.

40 dollars new could be the cheapest n-key rollover keyboard I've ever heard of, even if it isn't a standard retailers price.

[alexlzl]

Just did the testing, I think at most it can take 5-key at the same time at the Z-line (I got CVXZ, or M<>?, assuming SHIFT is also included). However, it gives nothing when I tried the ruler on the ~-line.

The keyboard comes with USB connector only, I don't have a PC with PS/2 connector currently.

By the way, I am testing on a Macbook Air, guess it shouldn't matter.

[xsphat]

By the way, I am testing on a Macbook Air, guess it shouldn't matter.

Is it the new or the old one? And is it your daily driver/only computer?

[alexlzl]

The Macbook Air is the old model (bought back in August 2008). It is my secondary machine (carrying between work and home), my primary machine is a Dell XPS running Ubuntu. I don't think it has a PS/2 connector either, should I try on it too?

[xsphat]

I don't think it has a PS/2 connector either, should I try on it too?

In that case, no. The USB connection will give the smae results.

[zwmalone]

In that case, no. The USB connection will give the smae results.

It looks like you're having some rollover issues.

[xsphat]

[bhtooefr]

Uh oh, time to get another keyboard.

[zwmalone]

Newegg finally has these in stock again for $70.

[wellington1869]

if these have black alps, why not get the $10 shipped NIB at101w instead?

[itlnstln]

Well, the Abs is prettier, but, true the Dell is cheaper.  That, and the Dells have real Alps.  I am sure the Abs has 3-party Alps-compatible switches.

[itlnstln]

I may get one of these if the Compaq 'board doesn't work out.  Other than the Abs logo, it is identical to the Filco, and it has my favorite version of Alps.  Also, it has a braided cable with a gold-plated connector for the epic win!

[itlnstln]

Not to spam the thread, but I bet you could take that weak-a*s Abs logo off with some Acetone.

[zwmalone]

if these have black alps, why not get the $10 shipped NIB at101w instead?

-Warranty
-BRAND NEW
-USB Connector (don't have to use an adapter)
-smaller footprint
-better styling
-pretty much the same as a more expensive Filco
-braided cable

if you subscribe to the NewEgg newsletter they occasionally give coupon codes lowering the cost even further.

[itlnstln]

-Warranty
-BRAND NEW
-USB Connector (don't have to use an adapter)
-smaller footprint
-better styling
-pretty much the same as a more expensive Filco
-braided cable

if you subscribe to the NewEgg newsletter they occasionally give coupon codes lowering the cost even further.

But other than all that, yeah, just save the $60 and go with the Dell.

I might pick one of these up if I end up deciding that black Alps are my favorites.

[wellington1869]

another reason to get this board would be to swap out the alps black springs and click leafs with ones from an old alps white board. Then you'd basically have the filco with white alps for 60 bucks.

[zwmalone]

That would save about $100 over buying a Filco Zero.  Exact same build quality with some extra perks and actual warranty and support that is US based.

[sandy55]

another reason to get this board would be to swap out the alps black springs and click leafs with ones from an old alps white board. Then you'd basically have the filco with white alps for 60 bucks.

As far as I can see ( through information and pictures posted to this forum ), ABS board comes with simplified I while Filco Zero comes with XM switches which belongs to Simplified II in my classification.
switch base of Simplified I plus real alps spring and click leaf won't make XM.

I'm bit puzzled with this variation of Zero if it uses real ALPS black/tactile or simplified I/click.

In my opinion, the best way to upgrade fake/simplified alps board is swapping whole modules to genuine alps.
example 1
example 2

[wellington1869]

"simplified I" looks pretty complicated, lol.
Simplified II is what the mk96 had.
Simplified II in turn comes with two types of click leaves ("narrow" and "broad") which are incompatible with each other (double slot vs single slot in the upper housing module). So for instance the mk96 had narrow leaves, the dell at101w has broad leaves. They cant be interchanged.
Its all very confusing.  

In my opinion, the best way to upgrade fake/simplified alps board is swapping whole modules to genuine alps

if by 'swapping' you mean soldering, thats probably not for me

[sandy55]

"simplified I" looks pretty complicated, lol.

not so complicated. the others ( except IIss ) are much complicated.

Simplified II is what the mk96 had.
Simplified II in turn comes with two types of click leaves ("narrow" and "broad") which are incompatible with each other (double slot vs single slot in the upper housing module). So for instance the mk96 had narrow leaves, the dell at101w has broad leaves. They cant be interchanged.
Its all very confusing.

Simplified  II and IIss both use same narrow click leaf. Difference between II and IIss is the form of contact plate which locates beside a stem.  

Base block of II and IV are almost same at a glance.  main difference is that II comes with small click leaf while IV comes with broad click leaf  like genuine alps.

You might misunderstood my page because of faulty auto translation

All and all, these are useless info for daily usage of keyboards. but you have any thought of changing internal parts of alps-ish switches, then you need to know.  

By swapping internal parts among simplified/fake switches, you may get some improvement but you can't get no satisfaction.

[wellington1869]

but you can't get no satisfaction.

story of my life

[xsphat]

story of my life

Sucks to be you!

[wellington1869]

Sucks to be you!

I try and I try and I try and I try.

[lowpoly]

example 1
example 2

Nice mods!

[FKSSR]

Hello all!

I just bought an ABS M1, and I'm really liking it.  However, I want some of the keys to be white (certain ones that I won't list right now).

I'm honestly very new to uncovering the secrets of keyboards, so I was wondering if anyone here can help direct me to where I may be able to find white replacement keys for the ABS?

Thank you!


EDIT: itlnstln helped me out with this.  I bought a Macally MK-96 to swap out keys from.  Thanks itlnstln!!!

[outofideas]

I received one of these from Newegg today, unfortunately it's going back.
Primary reason being that it does not have 6 key rollover.  If I hold down S and X, and then try to press A or D, the third key is completely ignored.  I tested the rollover on 2 windows boxes, and 1 linux box, all with the same results.

Other thoughts:

I was expecting it to be at least a little clicky, but it's nearly silent, it feels nice to type on though.

It definately does not work with a PS/2 converter, I tried 2.  

It felt pretty solidly constructed, and had some heft to it, I doubt it would be sliding around on the desk too much.

It has a fancy cable, but it's a little short.  2-3 feet longer would've been better.


I may try a white alps Filco next.  I'd prefer a 104, but the tenkeyless seem to be more readily available.  Or maybe a black alps Filco, I didn't find the lack of click nearly as annoying as I'd have thought it would be.

[itlnstln]

I may try a white alps Filco next.  I'd prefer a 104, but the tenkeyless seem to be more readily available.  Or maybe a black alps Filco, I didn't find the lack of click nearly as annoying as I'd have thought it would be.

Make sure you get a Filco that specifies N-Key rollover.  Keep in mind, the same OEM makes both the Filco and the ABS (they pretty much identical).

[outofideas]

Make sure you get a Filco that specifies N-Key rollover.

I'm most likely going to try a FKBN104M/EB.   I haven't had a chance to use brown cherries, but I figure if I don't appreciate them, then I can probably resell it to someone.  If it existed I'd go for a FKBN104Z/EB since I'm slightly more sure I'll like fake Alps.  Also I'd prefer a white/tan keyboard, but boards with N key rollover, and a US layoutseem to only come in black/dark brown from Filco.

Back to the M1.  Has anyone here used an M1 that is capable of reporting QWEASD, or ASDZXC, or similar combinations?  I'm loathe to pay a restocking fee if I don't have to.  And other than the lack of 6-key rollover I do like the M1, so I'm wondering if it's worth doing a swap instead of a return.

[rio]

seem to only come in black/dark brown from Filco.

Sorry to go OT a bit, but where have you seen a brown Filco? I've wanted a dark brown keyboard for a long time. Thanks!

[outofideas]

Sorry to go OT a bit, but where have you seen a brown Filco? I've wanted a dark brown keyboard for a long time. Thanks!

I was just referring to the black one(s), due to the texturing they can appear a little bit dark brownish depending on the light.