geekhack Community > Ergonomics
ErgoDox extended to 88+ (full set of) keys – “Lekhani”
jamadagni:
I was thinking maybe one of the reasons ergonomic keyboard designs like the ErgoDox and derivatives, despite their obvious benefits, are not more popular is that lots of those designs cut down on the number of keys. (Yes I know the Kinesis, TIKE etc don't compromise on the keys, but the Kinesis's rubber F keys are a blot on an otherwise excellent design, and the TIKE's unreliability re stuck keys and customer service is a big no-no... If it were not for these, I would have already bought one of the two...)
Asking people to re-learn their usage patterns will be definitely met with inertia. While certainly it is to their own benefit to unlearn what are actually bad habits resulting from the usage of a staggered-rows keyboard, asking them to sacrifice keys – either give up the digit row and the symbols on them if they want to use F keys a lot, or asking them to use Fn+ combinations for F keys all the time – is too much IMO. Providing them with the well-known set of keys is important.
Of course, almost nobody uses Scroll Lock and Pause/Break, so those can go out (and put on a higher layer such as Fn).
And preferably, if it can be done without increasing the overall footprint, a few more keys with other programmable usages can be included for convenience.
I initially targeted the 88-key ISO layout (to be more applicable worldwide, and for L/R symmetry) and just removed Scroll Lock and Pause/Break and put in "Undo" and "Save" buttons instead, and replaced one GUI (aka Win/Meta/Cmd) key with Fn/Num Lock, so retained the 88-key count.
Some of the changes I first made to the ErgoDox design was:
* More staggering a la the Axios.
* Added the Esc+F+Prt row on top. I keep them adjacent to the digit row to minimize stretching.
* Directional arrow clusters a la TIKE (just trying to be less surprising – I am personally OK with making those 4 keys flat i.e. in a row).
* Radial thumb cluster ("TC") a la other designs. Note that these are only 5 keys and all 1.5u which makes them easier to target IMO. The lower three to be accessed by the thumb and the inner two by the index/middle fingers with a wrist rotation for chording. I dropped the sixth least accessible position.
* Inner column on either hand all 1u-s since otherwise it seems to conflict with the 1.5u-s of the thumb cluster.
* Detachable halves with joint in middle.
* Of course, tiltable and tentable. Default tent of 15° or so.
The resulting layout was:
Now I realize I can add four more keys without increasing the footprint of the board. So:
* I have restored the second GUI key and pushed it to the TC where it is probably more useful for chording.
* I have also split out the Fn/Num key which was retained for simplicity of recognition to more powerful Layer+/− keys. I initially intended for the Fn/Num key to be used by tap/hold behaviour, but possibly not all ErgoDox-like firmwares support that, so this is much better, and power users can put this much better use whereas ordinary users will just retain it for going to the NumLk/Mouse layer and back. This also means that Fn sequences (SysRq, multimedia etc) will have to be handled by one or both of the GUI buttons, which is OK I guess (assuming tap/hold behaviour is not available).
* I also added a Macro key, which would earlier have to have been handled by some obscure Fn combination. Shift+Macro would be sufficient to start online macro recording I suppose (and hitting Macro ends it).
* Finally, the "Lng" key corresponding to USB HID code LANG1 would be useful to switch virtual keyboard layouts (or, always, power users can reconfigure it).More importantly as overall design point modifications:
* Brought the TCs in closer based on the feedback of the nice people here. Even in the first iteration I had a bit of misgiving about this so I went and fixed it.
* Removed the radial symmetry of the TC which is considered "overrated" (and which might cause extra work in PCB design, I dunno).
* Trimmed out the excessive unused space for the board for being lighter and more portable – people will use the available surface or their own palmrests.
* Removed the joiner in the middle. The assembly should be such (with rubber padding or whatever on the bottom) that the halves don't move around all that easily, thereby obviating the necessity of such a joiner (and the development/production costs associated with it).
So here it is:
I initially called this the ErgoMax, but that name seems to be overused by googling for it. I thought of other Ergo* options but got bored with overuse of the "ergo" wrod. I will hence do what I should have done first, give it a simple (internationally-pronounceable) name from my native languages: “lekhani” which means "instrument of writing", commonly used for "pen".
Now I realize I'm a noob amidst people much much more experienced. Just wanted to share my thoughts though and get feedback. I also have totally no knowledge of PCB design etc etc, so this is just the overall layout I'm posting just because I can dream of what I'd like to have! :-) I don't have the knowledge to work on this myself. (So I'm not posting it under the "making stuff together" forum.)
Apparently Zustiur is making something very very similar, and I hope he finds success. Hopefully somebody finds this design interesting enough to work on it. I'm open to design changes as seen above.
If such a design becomes publicly available, I think it would be easier to convince many people to buy it, rather than the ErgoDox which forces too much change that not everyone would be willing to put in. I think people should be met half-way and should not be deprived of the opportunity to save their hands just because they wanted the extra 12 keys (ISO 88 − ErgoDox 76)...
Findecanor:
Dude, there is already a vintage keyboard from Maxi Switch which is called ErgoMax.
I had stumbled into this thread expecting to read about it.
jamadagni:
Oh -- I never googled for that word. Just pulled it out of thin air. I am not trying to market anything. Probably I should change the thread title...
nick2253:
--- Quote from: Findecanor on Sun, 19 July 2015, 07:05:44 ---Dude, there is already a vintage keyboard from Maxi Switch which is called ErgoMax.
I had stumbled into this thread expecting to read about it.
--- End quote ---
IIRC, Maxi never manufactured the Ergo Max. They did have their Ergo Master keyboard.
This thread discusses it: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=12625.5
@jamadagni: Since it took me about 30 mins of Googling to come up with that thread, and your thread came up right away when I searched for "ergomax keyboard", I'd say you're safe to use it. I don't think you'll be creating too much confusion.
I agree with your assessment about the number of keys. It is one of the biggest sticking points I have with ergo keyboards is the lack of proper F keys and whatnot. 88-keys seems to be a good compromise.
Heliobb:
--- Quote from: jamadagni on Sun, 19 July 2015, 06:33:08 ---If such a design becomes publicly available, I think it would be easier to convince many people to buy it, rather than the ErgoDox which forces too much change that not everyone would be willing to put in. I think people should be met half-way and should not be deprived of the opportunity to save their hands just because they wanted the extra 12 keys...
--- End quote ---
The ergodox force to too much change ?
Have you tried to print your layout to test it ?
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