[IC] GMK Taiga | GB Starts on the 22nd of July

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

I got 4 of those for 6-7$ each back in the 90s. People tell me I should get those out.

Apparently in between those values is the price of some kits…

[HungHingDaiLo]

I got 4 of those for 6-7$ each back in the 90s. People tell me I should get those out.

Apparently in between those values is the price of some kits…

you lucky son of a gun you.
Play Jund, use Taiga. Oh, also I hope you already ditch all the fetchlands because wotc is reprinting them like ****in crazy.

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

The perk is that I bought MtG cheap because no one cared. The downside is that I am old and that causes more problems than 400$ cardboard.

How did the base end up this cheap w the new molds that needed to be made? I can’t get the answer to this till the prices get revealed…

[andreiborisov]

Spoiler: the price is less than you might have expected

[mr_foggy]

please IC, be a set
thanks

[Shunx]

Looks good. The green tone is somehow inconsistent. Hope you do it in darker green.

[DiGatto]

LMFAO
backspace - killing animal
PrtScr - oven

Backspace - Стереть
PrtScr - Печать Экрана / ПчтЭкр

[andreiborisov]

LMFAO
backspace - killing animal
PrtScr - oven

Backspace - Стереть
PrtScr - Печать Экрана / ПчтЭкр

Hi!

Obviously, there are multiple ways to translate legends. So while we were designing them we had decided to follow some rules:

1. The legends, their abbreviation method should be consistent across all keys instead of being all over the place.
2. Everything should be grammatically correct.
3. As much as possible we should pay homage to historical examples of real Soviet boards.


Regarding your particular concerns:

Backspace/Забой — is the direct translation in this case, it means “забой каретки” which was used on historical boards and came from old typewriters: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backspace

PrtScr/Печ — in Russian language you can’t remove vowels to shorten a word (it’s considered grammatically incorrect), which is why we’ve landed on that particular translation. The same key is also present on historical boards. “Печь” which translates to “Oven”, although similar, has another letter at the end, so we thought that shouldn’t cause confusion.

Hopefully, this clears things up a bit:3

[andreiborisov]

Here is one of the references we’ve looked into:

[genevatypes]

LFG GB is going to be in March, this is one of the only sets I'm down to wait for! Great work.

[maximize]

For those who aren’t on discord: GB is supposed to be in March. Cyrillic base kit only, no Latin base, to ensure Cyrillic hits MOQ. Pricing finalized as: 128USD base, 46USD extensions, 26USD spacebars.

[Qarmaa]

As a native Russian language speaker, I just can't stand localized mods. I think they are only good as homage to old sets. In other cases they just looks bizarre to me. It's shame that only those will be available, it's a nice colorway. GL with GB regardless.

[andreiborisov]

As a native Russian language speaker, I just can't stand localized mods. I think they are only good as homage to old sets. In other cases they just looks bizarre to me. It's shame that only those will be available, it's a nice colorway. GL with GB regardless.

As a matter of fact I felt the same way as you at first, but after staring at the legends for many hours it suddenly looks fine

I think the reason they might look bizarre for Russian native speakers is that all modern boards exclusively use Latin for mods. We just aren't used to seeing them.

However, that is kind of the idea: to make something unique and new yet retro-inspired.

Hopefully, it will feel at home after a couple of days on a board even if the owner is a Russian native speaker.

[GMK83]

I’m sad the Latin mods are gone as well.  Would be nice if there was a kit for them, but I suppose hitting MoQ might be hard

[neon_tom]

RIP Latin base. Another green set I’ll now have to pass on. GLWGB.

[HelloThisIsDog]

I’m another one who would gladly have bought Latin base. Shame it won’t be coming but I understand.

[1017BirckenThot]

Cyrillic base is way more interesting and on theme for this set and its good that Latin base was scrapped in favor of ensuring that Cyrillic hits MOQ. Nice changes Oggi 

[Arithmetics]

so stoked for Cyrillic Base.

[stomaha]

I’m another one who would gladly have bought Latin base. Shame it won’t be coming, but I understand.

[Lil]

Is text+icon latin mods + Cyrillic alphas possible?

[Qarmaa]

As a native Russian language speaker, I just can't stand localized mods. I think they are only good as homage to old sets. In other cases they just looks bizarre to me. It's shame that only those will be available, it's a nice colorway. GL with GB regardless.

As a matter of fact I felt the same way as you at first, but after staring at the legends for many hours it suddenly looks fine

I think the reason they might look bizarre for Russian native speakers is that all modern boards exclusively use Latin for mods. We just aren't used to seeing them.

However, that is kind of the idea: to make something unique and new yet retro-inspired.

Hopefully, it will feel at home after a couple of days on a board even if the owner is a Russian native speaker.

There is only a few keyboards made using Cyrillic modifiers. All of the translation of the mods doesn't fit modern days keyboards in my opinion, they just looks like poor adaptation of GOST which is oudated and looks bizzare nowadays. And combination of icon + text makes it even worse looking. Also the font you choose are different from what Cherry/GMK use (see K/Я/З/У etc.). It all makes it mishmashed.

Same as for Masterpiece: キャプスロック for example do not exist in any modern layouts, not to mention they spell it as キャプ / スロック (Cap /slock). Good example of localized mods would be the ones that Cherry made for German layout or French layout. Yet again, localized mods only good if you making a homage set like Simple Ja or if it's done properly like mentioned before.

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

Is text+icon latin mods + Cyrillic alphas possible?

Given the current numbers for sets in GB, proximity of the request to the GB date vs how long it takes for quotes, and the ability of the designer to update geekhack, imma go with No

[andreiborisov]

As a native Russian language speaker, I just can't stand localized mods. I think they are only good as homage to old sets. In other cases they just looks bizarre to me. It's shame that only those will be available, it's a nice colorway. GL with GB regardless.

As a matter of fact I felt the same way as you at first, but after staring at the legends for many hours it suddenly looks fine

I think the reason they might look bizarre for Russian native speakers is that all modern boards exclusively use Latin for mods. We just aren't used to seeing them.

However, that is kind of the idea: to make something unique and new yet retro-inspired.

Hopefully, it will feel at home after a couple of days on a board even if the owner is a Russian native speaker.

There is only a few keyboards made using Cyrillic modifiers. All of the translation of the mods doesn't fit modern days keyboards in my opinion, they just looks like poor adaptation of GOST which is oudated and looks bizzare nowadays. And combination of icon + text makes it even worse looking. Also the font you choose are different from what Cherry/GMK use (see K/Я/З/У etc.). It all makes it mishmashed.

Same as for Masterpiece: キャプスロック for example do not exist in any modern layouts, not to mention they spell it as キャプ / スロック (Cap /slock). Good example of localized mods would be the ones that Cherry made for German layout or French layout. Yet again, localized mods only good if you making a homage set like Simple Ja or if it's done properly like mentioned before.

The alphas font on the renders is not quite the same as that will be on the actual caps, we’ll use molds that were introduced by GMK Yuri, so there won’t be a font clash.

Yes, this set is meant to be retro-inspired, however, we’ve designed the translations with the hope that the new molds will be used by other designers and sets in the future.

Since like you’ve mentioned there are only a few keyboards that used translated mods, there aren’t any well-established long-standing translations, hence any attempt in translating the mods will be forced to establish those itself.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what makes German and French Cherry layouts being done properly, while this is not?

[Qarmaa]

we’ll use molds that were introduced by GMK Yuri, so there won’t be a font clash.

As well as I'm aware, GMK themselves doesn’t have lower case letters in their possession.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what makes German and French Cherry layouts being done properly, while this is not?

They translate meaning of the keys properly (not literally) and doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. For example "Page Down" in German layout not translated like "Seite auf" but "Bild ↑" instead.

For Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace they use icon mods cause in that languages they don't have official translation for those keys. As well as we are. «Заглавные» for example relates more to first letter of the word, we say «прописные» when we want to tell if word should be all uppercase. Not to mention that in stepped caps variant, it's abbreviated wrong way (should be «заглавн» not «заглав», see §116 of Russian rules).

Another thing to mention that Russian PC layout came from IBM and was an adaptation (very poor I would say because to input the comma you need to hold down Shift) of US layout. People didn't use to translated mods and even most of native speakers doesn't know anything about «забой» and all that stuff, it's all came from typewritters that nobody even remember nowadays. In German and French it's different, they grown using keyboards with their layout. When people type in Russian, they don't say "I need to press «регистр» and then the letter", they say "I need to press «шифт» and then the letter".

Aside from Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace:
1. why does Control have translation while Alt doesnt?
2. «Супер» sounds silly and there is better translation for that
3. What does «Вст» mean ? Вставить or встать? According to rules of abbreviations in Russian language, you have to make abbreviation univocal. Same for «Нач», «Кон», «Функ».
4. «Печ» looks awful as it is and what it suppose to mean in modern layout? It's executes different action, not printing.
5. Why R1 and R4 Page Down says «Кнц» but R2 says «Кон»?
6. «СтВв» and «СтВн» looks very silly as well. There is one word translation that looks better.
7. «Экран» and «Цифр» - what that suppose to mean?
8. There is better translation for Fn if you need that key. Also see 3 if you keeping it.

...And more

You making new molds for different language. They should be done properly, not like this.

[andreiborisov]

we’ll use molds that were introduced by GMK Yuri, so there won’t be a font clash.

As well as I'm aware, GMK themselves have lower case letters in their possession.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what makes German and French Cherry layouts being done properly, while this is not?

They translate meaning of the keys properly (not literally) and doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. For example "Page Down" in German layout not translated like "Seite auf" but "Bild ↑" instead.

For Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace they use icon mods cause in that languages they don't have official translation for those keys. As well as we are. «Заглавные» for example relates more to first letter of the word, we say «прописные» when we want to tell if word should be all uppercase. Not to mention that in stepped caps variant, it's abbreviated wrong way (should be «заглавн» not «заглав», see §116 of Russian rules).

Another thing to mention that Russian PC layout came from IBM and was an adaptation (very poor I would say because to input the comma you need to hold down Shift) of US layout. People didn't use to translated mods and even most of native speakers doesn't know anything about «забой» and all that stuff, it's all came from typewritters that nobody even remember nowadays. In German and French it's different, they grown using keyboards with their layout. When people type in Russian, they don't say "I need to press «регистр» and then the letter", they say "I need to press «шифт» and then the letter".

Aside from Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace:
1. why does Control have translation while Alt doesnt?
2. «Супер» sounds silly and there is better translation for that
3. What does «Вст» mean ? Вставить or встать? According to rules of abbreviations in Russian language, you have to make abbreviation univocal. Same for «Нач», «Кон», «Функ».
4. «Печ» looks awful as it is and what it suppose to mean in modern layout? It's executes different action, not printing.
5. Why R1 and R4 Page Down says «Кнц» but R2 says «Кон»?
6. «СтВв» and «СтВн» looks very silly as well. There is one word translation that looks better.
7. «Экран» and «Цифр» - what that suppose to mean?
8. There is better translation for Fn if you need that key. Also see 3 if you keeping it.

...And more

You making new molds for different language. They should be done properly, not like this.

Brilliant criticism, thank you!

We’re looking into incorporating your suggestions.

[aa212121]

we’ll use molds that were introduced by GMK Yuri, so there won’t be a font clash.

As well as I'm aware, GMK themselves have lower case letters in their possession.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what makes German and French Cherry layouts being done properly, while this is not?

They translate meaning of the keys properly (not literally) and doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. For example "Page Down" in German layout not translated like "Seite auf" but "Bild ↑" instead.

For Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace they use icon mods cause in that languages they don't have official translation for those keys. As well as we are. «Заглавные» for example relates more to first letter of the word, we say «прописные» when we want to tell if word should be all uppercase. Not to mention that in stepped caps variant, it's abbreviated wrong way (should be «заглавн» not «заглав», see §116 of Russian rules).

Another thing to mention that Russian PC layout came from IBM and was an adaptation (very poor I would say because to input the comma you need to hold down Shift) of US layout. People didn't use to translated mods and even most of native speakers doesn't know anything about «забой» and all that stuff, it's all came from typewritters that nobody even remember nowadays. In German and French it's different, they grown using keyboards with their layout. When people type in Russian, they don't say "I need to press «регистр» and then the letter", they say "I need to press «шифт» and then the letter".

Aside from Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace:
1. why does Control have translation while Alt doesnt?
2. «Супер» sounds silly and there is better translation for that
3. What does «Вст» mean ? Вставить or встать? According to rules of abbreviations in Russian language, you have to make abbreviation univocal. Same for «Нач», «Кон», «Функ».
4. «Печ» looks awful as it is and what it suppose to mean in modern layout? It's executes different action, not printing.
5. Why R1 and R4 Page Down says «Кнц» but R2 says «Кон»?
6. «СтВв» and «СтВн» looks very silly as well. There is one word translation that looks better.
7. «Экран» and «Цифр» - what that suppose to mean?
8. There is better translation for Fn if you need that key. Also see 3 if you keeping it.

...And more

You making new molds for different language. They should be done properly, not like this.

Man. This comment put this thread on my watch list.
Really great input(even though i do not understand the chars)!

[hayt]

Ne Taiga avail

[andreiborisov]

we’ll use molds that were introduced by GMK Yuri, so there won’t be a font clash.

As well as I'm aware, GMK themselves doesn’t have lower case letters in their possession.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what makes German and French Cherry layouts being done properly, while this is not?

They translate meaning of the keys properly (not literally) and doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. For example "Page Down" in German layout not translated like "Seite auf" but "Bild ↑" instead.

For Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace they use icon mods cause in that languages they don't have official translation for those keys. As well as we are. «Заглавные» for example relates more to first letter of the word, we say «прописные» when we want to tell if word should be all uppercase. Not to mention that in stepped caps variant, it's abbreviated wrong way (should be «заглавн» not «заглав», see §116 of Russian rules).

Another thing to mention that Russian PC layout came from IBM and was an adaptation (very poor I would say because to input the comma you need to hold down Shift) of US layout. People didn't use to translated mods and even most of native speakers doesn't know anything about «забой» and all that stuff, it's all came from typewritters that nobody even remember nowadays. In German and French it's different, they grown using keyboards with their layout. When people type in Russian, they don't say "I need to press «регистр» and then the letter", they say "I need to press «шифт» and then the letter".

Aside from Shift, Enter, Tab and Backspace:
1. why does Control have translation while Alt doesnt?
2. «Супер» sounds silly and there is better translation for that
3. What does «Вст» mean ? Вставить or встать? According to rules of abbreviations in Russian language, you have to make abbreviation univocal. Same for «Нач», «Кон», «Функ».
4. «Печ» looks awful as it is and what it suppose to mean in modern layout? It's executes different action, not printing.
5. Why R1 and R4 Page Down says «Кнц» but R2 says «Кон»?
6. «СтВв» and «СтВн» looks very silly as well. There is one word translation that looks better.
7. «Экран» and «Цифр» - what that suppose to mean?
8. There is better translation for Fn if you need that key. Also see 3 if you keeping it.

...And more

You making new molds for different language. They should be done properly, not like this.

I have 3 questions:

2. What would be a better translation for «Супер» in your opinion?
6. You mean "Стр" with an arrow?
8. What would be a better translation for «Fn» in your opinion?

[BloremBipsum]

Looks really nice!

[grezeh]

I had only a couple nagging things about mods initially: Алт>>Альт; СтВв>>СтрВ; СтВн>>СтрН. Other things are more-or-less intuitive. Most other criticism is silly imo. This is a keyboard, so the context for mod meaning interpretations are clear. Just do proper Д/Щ/Ц, not crooked like in OG- this is the only thing that drives mad: it was cleared the other day, that it's just an error on renders.

[andreiborisov]

It's very heartwarming that you guys interested in the set and provide brilliant feedback, thanks to you, we were able to improve translations and the set even further!

Here it is (apologise for the junkiness):




Hopefully, everyone is excited for the imminent group buy now!

[NoPunIn10Did]

Too late for this now, but one thing to consider for the future is that for Cyrillic sets, Ukrainian ISO is a viable option in lieu of physical/terminal ISO.  It would add 6 alphas (rather than 2), similar to the difference between terminal US and UK ISO.

[ZavaZ86]

Too late for this now, but one thing to consider for the future is that for Cyrillic sets, Ukrainian ISO is a viable option in lieu of physical/terminal ISO.  It would add 6 alphas (rather than 2), similar to the difference between terminal US and UK ISO.

Why

[konstantin]

It's very heartwarming that you guys interested in the set and provide brilliant feedback, thanks to you, we were able to improve translations and the set even further!

Here it is (apologise for the junkiness):

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Hopefully, everyone is excited for the imminent group buy now!

Please don't forget R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn in the new kits, those keys are important for 65% support.
Looks good otherwise, although you have R1 1u Ctrl, Alt keys in the base kit for no apparent reason; I'm assuming this is a render error.
Also, I think some of those 1u legends, such as Функц, Конец, Стр↲Вверх, might not fit on the keys.
The second R4 1u Ctrl key in the extension kit can be removed since there are practically no modern keyboards/layouts that use 2× 1u Ctrl. Alternatively, I suggest replacing it with a generic R4 1u key (e.g. Супер).

[NoPunIn10Did]

Too late for this now, but one thing to consider for the future is that for Cyrillic sets, Ukrainian ISO is a viable option in lieu of physical/terminal ISO.  It would add 6 alphas (rather than 2), similar to the difference between terminal US and UK ISO.

Why

To take advantage of the opportunity it grants to easily expand locale support? And to offer support for an actual Cyrillic layout that uses ISO.

[andreiborisov]

It's very heartwarming that you guys interested in the set and provide brilliant feedback, thanks to you, we were able to improve translations and the set even further!

Here it is (apologise for the junkiness):

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Hopefully, everyone is excited for the imminent group buy now!

Please don't forget R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn in the new kits, those keys are important for 65% support.
Looks good otherwise, although you have R1 1u Ctrl, Alt keys in the base kit for no apparent reason; I'm assuming this is a render error.
Also, I think some of those 1u legends, such as Функц, Конец, Стр↲Вверх, might not fit on the keys.
The second R4 1u Ctrl key in the extension kit can be removed since there are practically no modern keyboards/layouts that use 2× 1u Ctrl. Alternatively, I suggest replacing it with a generic R4 1u key (e.g. Супер).

No worries, Oggi is working on getting everything up to GMK specs, if something doesn’t fit, we’ll shorten it

[madcap11]

Loving this shade of green.

[konstantin]

«Заглавные» for example relates more to first letter of the word, we say «прописные» when we want to tell if word should be all uppercase.

It's very heartwarming that you guys interested in the set and provide brilliant feedback, thanks to you, we were able to improve translations and the set even further!

Here it is (apologise for the junkiness):

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Hopefully, everyone is excited for the imminent group buy now!

Are you sure that «Прописные» would be a more appropriate legend for Caps Lock than «Заглавные»?

I'm not a native speaker of Russian myself, but I'm aware that прописные can refer to both uppercase and cursive letters (deriving from the meaning of the word пропись). However, some Russian friends I've asked have said that they more directly associate заглавные with uppercase letters, while прописные is reserved for handwritten, cursive letters. So I'm not sure what to think.

Here is a bit of related discussion I found on the RU Wikipedia article for прописная буква. Please advise.

[andreiborisov]

«Заглавные» for example relates more to first letter of the word, we say «прописные» when we want to tell if word should be all uppercase.

It's very heartwarming that you guys interested in the set and provide brilliant feedback, thanks to you, we were able to improve translations and the set even further!

Here it is (apologise for the junkiness):

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Hopefully, everyone is excited for the imminent group buy now!

Are you sure that «Прописные» would be a more appropriate legend for Caps Lock than «Заглавные»?

I'm not a native speaker of Russian myself, but I'm aware that прописные can refer to both uppercase and cursive letters (deriving from the meaning of the word пропись). However, some Russian friends I've asked have said that they more directly associate заглавные with uppercase letters, while прописные is reserved for handwritten, cursive letters. So I'm not sure what to think.

Here is a bit of related discussion I found on the RU Wikipedia article for прописная буква. Please advise.

Show Image

Good question!

Those are synonyms in modern Russian language. Therefore both would be fine on a keyboard.

Ultimately, I’ve decided to change it to “прописные” after Qarmaa brought my attention to it, since it is considered to be preferable (it is the correct linguistic term for it), while “заглавные” is more of an “unofficial” version which is widely used.

Etymology of the word “прописные” goes back to the times before the invention of printing press, when people would need to “прописывать” first letters of a chapter by making it all fancy and big.

“Заглавные” has a similar etymology however. It came from “заглавие” which you can roughly translate as “chapter”.

We shouldn’t be concerned about etymology though. What’s important is the current meaning of the word and “прописные” is considered more of a “official” term hence it’s more appropriate for a keyboard legend in my opinion.

[woodarda]

Total Noob here. Actually just signed up for geekhack because I was moaning to a friend of mine how hard it is to find a cyrillic keyboard (without the latin), aftern which he sent me a link here. Haven't seen any comments here for about 6 weeks; Does this mean that this set is available for sale, or did I miss the chance to purchase?

[NoPunIn10Did]

Total Noob here. Actually just signed up for geekhack because I was moaning to a friend of mine how hard it is to find a cyrillic keyboard (without the latin), aftern which he sent me a link here. Haven't seen any comments here for about 6 weeks; Does this mean that this set is available for sale, or did I miss the chance to purchase?

Welcome to Geekhack! This set is in the interest check (IC) phase. Eventually it should open to preorders in a group buy (GB), but after that it will be in the queue for production (probably 1.5-2 years).

So if you need something soon, and what you want is full Cyrillic Russian alphas without any Latin on them, you’re best off looking for GMK Perestroika on the secondary market (which will be expensive) or potentially something like SA Yuri.

[Photekq]

Has there been any further consideration towards R5?

This is one of the nicest GMK sets I've ever seen, but lack of R5 is a real dealbreaker for me.

[NoPunIn10Did]

Has there been any further consideration towards R5?

This is one of the nicest GMK sets I've ever seen, but lack of R5 is a real dealbreaker for me.

Considering the price increase that comes with R5, I think you'll find that inclusion of R5 ends up being a dealbreaker for far more people.  Especially for a set that's already going to have to pay for a ton of brand new legends.

[The_judge_168]

Inclusion of R5 without R4 option makes it dealbreaker for me. That said is there a date for when GB will be starting?

[Photekq]

Considering the price increase that comes with R5, I think you'll find that inclusion of R5 ends up being a dealbreaker for far more people.  Especially for a set that's already going to have to pay for a ton of brand new legends.

I wasn't trying to suggest any specific implementation, e.g putting it in the base kit, or replacing R4. I agree that'd be pretty daft, especially for this particular set, and I think R4 is absolutely necessary.

I wasn't going to make a personal recommendation, since obviously.. everything is entirely up to the runners. But if I had to, I'd recommend having it as a separate kit, even if it carries a hefty cost because of low quantities; I'd gladly pay a lot extra for R5 in a separate kit, but without it.. I wouldn't have any interest in buying the set at all.

[synthetics]

me dumb

[weekendkeyboard]

I'm In! 

[Porsha]

Now those are some nice shades of green, I'd buy that.

[dededecline]

Any updates on this making it into GB?

[NightFox99]

Up. Would really like to see this set going live.