So how much work would you estimate it'd be to make a full-sized GMK set compatible with Matias housings given all the inside/outside filing required? Wondering if it'd just be better to track down some complicated alps and use your housings (never owned any alps switches so I'll be buying some either way).
Awesome! Now to decide on how many I want to get and whether or not I should get top housings.
I'm def in. Awesome job in the updates and prototyping. I'm sure it'll go smoothly. Atleast I hope ;D
I am pretty damn pumped for this. Like many, the question is if I will join, but how many of each item I'm going to get.
Edit: Oh I do have a question. Are the sliders going to be yellow?
Awesome! Now to decide on how many I want to get and whether or not I should get top housings.
Yeah that is going to be some hard thinking. Just go ahead and order 1,000 of each, you never know what boards you may get in the future. :))
Haha, I wish. I was originally planning on just enough for one board but I'm considering enough for at least two. Will you be keeping us updated on order quantities? I don't need the top housings but, if it gets low enough, I might purchase them.
Haha, I wish. I was originally planning on just enough for one board but I'm considering enough for at least two. Will you be keeping us updated on order quantities? I don't need the top housings but, if it gets low enough, I might purchase them.
Yes I will update quite often so people know more about what is going on. I feel that is only right seeing as it affects the buyers heavily for pricing. The one thing I am worried about is the top housings...I hope there is enough interest to get them cheaper.
Cherry profile R3 works well as long as we use your modified top housings/file our original SKCM housings?
Have you gotten prototypes? Or is this just a render and wishful thinking right now?
Have you gotten prototypes? Or is this just a render and wishful thinking right now?
I have gone through 4 prototypes so far, so no wishful thinking at all.
If this is successful, would you consider having more runs of this?
I'm so excited about this. We all need to spread the word to hit MOQ. Tell everyone!
I made a reddit post to help gain some people since I didn't see a thread on /r/mk.
@BlindAssassin111 I know I didn't ask for permission so if you want me to take it down just let me know.
Seeing that so much of the cost of the top housings is in getting the tooling made, it would seem silly to do it as a smaller run. I'm worried that the group buy's short duration and a potential lack of publicity will make it difficult to reach the higher MOQs. Perhaps there's a chance that there are vendors willing to invest in stocking a portion.
Seeing that so much of the cost of the top housings is in getting the tooling made, it would seem silly to do it as a smaller run. I'm worried that the group buy's short duration and a potential lack of publicity will make it difficult to reach the higher MOQs. Perhaps there's a chance that there are vendors willing to invest in stocking a portion.
I have something in the works for the sliders, but unfortunately the top housings were not picked up, I am going to see if TopClack can mention this and help get the word out there as I really want the price to drip on them, but I need people and it is hard to reach the audience I need for this.
QuoteI have something in the works for the sliders, but unfortunately the top housings were not picked up, I am going to see if TopClack can mention this and help get the word out there as I really want the price to drip on them, but I need people and it is hard to reach the audience I need for this.
I'm sure bond a doubt they will mention it next livestream!
I made a reddit post to help gain some people since I didn't see a thread on /r/mk.
@BlindAssassin111 I know I didn't ask for permission so if you want me to take it down just let me know.
You are good, I have no problem with people posting about it on other platforms. I don't use reddit, I made an account for this but I am just not a reddit person, so I don't go over there ever.
Cool! I'll be your reddit guy while this GB runs ;)
QuoteCool! I'll be your reddit guy while this GB runs ;)
I'm not sure if this is allowed per reddit rules but I think you can make a GB post on /mm for this.
I'll mention it in my next video on my AEK64. I don't have as much pull as Top Clack, but it might help a little.
Pretty stocked for this!! I have to decide if I get some tops as well as sliders. @BlindAssassin, would you offer "cancellations" if price doesn't meet a reasonable amount? Or maybe you could keep track of "virtual orders" so we can see what would the pricing be if we all join for tops as well.
Also, I do agree with the other people saying trying to get some vendors involved, specially big asian names like kbdzone and such, they may want to take a big order to stock them.
Pretty stocked for this!! I have to decide if I get some tops as well as sliders. @BlindAssassin, would you offer "cancellations" if price doesn't meet a reasonable amount? Or maybe you could keep track of "virtual orders" so we can see what would the pricing be if we all join for tops as well.
Also, I do agree with the other people saying trying to get some vendors involved, specially big asian names like kbdzone and such, they may want to take a big order to stock them.
For the top housings, I will consider it, but I have to see what orders look like. If they are super low then I will just cancel all orders for the housings, but if we have reached say 8000, and a bunch of people drop out, it could basically end the chances of them being made even for those that wanted them and were okay with the price. I can't do a massdrop commit at price thing as there is no final/lowest price and everyone would say a different cost is "reasonable".
So basically if you join be prepared to pay the highest price, I may allow cancellations below 8000 ordered, but not 100% sure on that yet.
Can someone translate this for me?
How many sets of Stab Inserts do you want? Each set comes with 14 inserts, $5 - $8 per set. *
If ordering multiples of the same quantity for stab inserts, How many?
So if I say 10 and 10 I get a 100 sets?
Why not just have more options in the first question? Splitting it in two questions makes sense for the sliders and housings th yesough.
Can someone translate this for me?
How many sets of Stab Inserts do you want? Each set comes with 14 inserts, $5 - $8 per set. *
If ordering multiples of the same quantity for stab inserts, How many?
So if I say 10 and 10 I get a 100 sets?
Why not just have more options in the first question? Splitting it in two questions makes sense for the sliders and housings though.
In for 140 sliders and 70 housings this run through. I hope you don't mind, I sent Quakemz from the topclack stream a quick message to check out this page so he can hopefully cover it in the next stream.
Great renders!
Hey buddy, gl with this GB!
At 1800 sliders in 2 hours, pretty darn good for the relative lack of exposure this has had compared to longer-stewing ICs.
I dunno, I think 2 months for a project like this is rather quick; you really only see an IC that short when it's for something like running a variant of some keycap set rather than creating an adapter. I mean hell it took years for topre-to-mx adapters to get anywhere and we still don't have great ones or even anything to use for spacebar stabilizers.
Great project, I just put in my order! I'm wondering whether there is a way to see the values I filled out in the form, i.e. a link to my entry that I can bookmark for reference?
Great project, I just put in my order! I'm wondering whether there is a way to see the values I filled out in the form, i.e. a link to my entry that I can bookmark for reference?
In for 140 sliders and 70 housings this run through. I hope you don't mind, I sent Quakemz from the topclack stream a quick message to check out this page so he can hopefully cover it in the next stream.
Great renders!
lol, I also emailed them so hopefully with you also contacting them, it will increase the chances of a response/mention. Thank you for the consideration and order.
Just in case he didn't answer you, I just got a PM back, he says it's in the news doc :)
Hey you mention an issue with cherry/gmk profiles in the topic, but I can't find anywhere that says what the issue is?
Under what circumstances would I not want to order the housings? If I was going to mod my existing housings? Just trying to figure out if I should order the same number of sliders to housings.
Ordered 130 sliders and 70 housings. Will order 70 more housing if price comes down! Will the original housing work for SA or OEM profile without modification?
Ordered 130 sliders and 70 housings. Will order 70 more housing if price comes down! Will the original housing work for SA or OEM profile without modification?
In for 200 sliders and 70 tops! If price goes lower for tops, I'll put another order for some more :thumb:
Placed an order for 140 sliders. If the housings reach the 80 cent mark, I'll consider joining. Don't really need them but at that price point, I'd be down for some in case.
Update:
We are about to pass the 30 hour mark, and we have reached 4100 sliders, 2775 top housings and 38 sets of stab inserts. We are just over a 3rd of the way for the sliders and if the ratio is kept for the top housings to sliders, we should be able to hit the 8000 mark. And if those buying top housings buy an extra 29 on average, we can easily hit the 10,000 mark. So the $0.80 mark is achievable if everything keeps going at the same rate!
Looking at the price drops of the top housings, if we hit 8000 then we can afford to purchase 10,000 since they are the same cost?
Update:
We are about to pass the 30 hour mark, and we have reached 4100 sliders, 2775 top housings and 38 sets of stab inserts. We are just over a 3rd of the way for the sliders and if the ratio is kept for the top housings to sliders, we should be able to hit the 8000 mark. And if those buying top housings buy an extra 29 on average, we can easily hit the 10,000 mark. So the $0.80 mark is achievable if everything keeps going at the same rate!
Looking at the price drops of the top housings, if we hit 8000 then we can afford to purchase 10,000 since they are the same cost?
Yeah, I'd noticed that too. Same thing happens at 12,000/14,000.
There are some really weird situations with the pricing because it's so heavily skewed towards funding for the initial tooling. Let's say there are 60 people who want 100 housings - they'd each pay $120. If you instead persuade each person to spend $140, everyone ends up with 234 instead (and obviously more people on the fence would join in, etc). That's why I think this isn't a great way to finance it, and that we'd be better off with some sort of initial upfront investment.
I don't think y'all are looking at it the correct way. If I were to let people pay $0.80 at 8000 quantity, that means I lose $0.20 for each one of those. If it the total is $8000 for the housings, I need that whole amount, selling 8000 at $0.80 would bring in $6400 meaning I lose the remaining $1600, So I would be paying people to have my product. I artificially lowered the price point for 10,000 to help people save money, I actually lose money by selling 10,000 compared to 8,000, as the actual manufacturing cost doesn't drop nearly as much as my selling price does.
If you go look at my Omnikey PCB GB, you will see people mentioning I can sell at the higher price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity(Sell 12 at $47 and buy 15 for $38). I can't sell at the lower price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity, because then I lose a **** ton of money. (Sell 8,000 at $0.80 and buy 10,000 for $0.80)
I don't think y'all are looking at it the correct way. If I were to let people pay $0.80 at 8000 quantity, that means I lose $0.20 for each one of those. If it the total is $8000 for the housings, I need that whole amount, selling 8000 at $0.80 would bring in $6400 meaning I lose the remaining $1600, So I would be paying people to have my product. I artificially lowered the price point for 10,000 to help people save money, I actually lose money by selling 10,000 compared to 8,000, as the actual manufacturing cost doesn't drop nearly as much as my selling price does.
If you go look at my Omnikey PCB GB, you will see people mentioning I can sell at the higher price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity(Sell 12 at $47 and buy 15 for $38). I can't sell at the lower price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity, because then I lose a **** ton of money. (Sell 8,000 at $0.80 and buy 10,000 for $0.80)
Check the numbers again. It would be $0.80 at 10,000 quantity (which is $8000, same as $1.00 at 8,000 - that's why $8,000 is a breakpoint). Load up excel and plot number of sliders vs total cost and it becomes pretty obvious.
OK, sorry if it was condescending. What I meant in the earlier post is that I think it becomes a bad approach to ask people how many sliders they want when the price is unknown to such an extent. But I guess if you hit 8,000 then you can always just sell the extra 2,000 separately or something. (Because there is no reason to have 8,000 manufactured instead of 10,000).
I think what I'm having trouble with is that if we can give you $8000 to buy 8000 sliders, but we can also give you $8000 to buy 10000 sliders, what prevents just ordering the 10k instead of 8k if we're giving you $8000 either way? The two drop points equal the same amount of money given to you, which is different than how $7200 gets us 6k sliders then the next step is $8k for 8k sliders, but with 8/10 it's $8k then $8k. Basically say there was 100 people who each ordered 80 sliders, aren't they giving you the same amount of money if they all decided to get 100 sliders instead?
Well I don't know about that, but I mean at the very least you should order the 10k if we hit $8000 since you can just sell them afterward as a reward for running the buy. But otherwise yeah, it's a pretty difficult approach without Massdrop's "commit" function since even 20k would be reachable if there was an option to say "well I'd give you $50 for 100 sliders if enough other people agreed to that." It's a catch 22 really, I think big numbers are actually possible but it requires people actually having faith that others will take the leap of faith too so you're not stuck paying $1.20 per slider (and I'm included in that >_>).
But I suppose that's getting off-topic and lamenting us individuals not having the power of massdrop.
You're all looking at this wrong.
If we reach 8000 MOQ at $1.00 per, BlindAssassin111 is given $8000 of our money to order with. On the other hand, if we reach 10000 MOQ at $0.80 per, he is still given $8000 of our money to order with. Nothing wrong with that, he makes no extra profit or less profit from selling 10000 over 8000.
However, this is the scenario you are thinking of:
Reach 8000 MOQ, raised $8000.
Instead of waiting to reach 10000 MOQ, go ahead and use the $8000 to order 10000.
Sell these 10000 at $0.80 each instead of $1.00 each.
By this point, we have affirmed that 8000*1.00 = 8000 and 10000*0.80 = 8000.
However, let's say this GB has only generated enough interest for 8000 housings and lets say he goes ahead and orders 10000 housings.
He will now sell 8000, as this is the only amount of interest generated, but at the 10000 price.
8000*0.80 = 6400. And now he has 2000 housings left which total up 1600 if sold at 0.80.
Remember that we only generated enough interest for 8000, though. This means he is left with 2000 that will not sell. At least, not right away.
BlindAssassin111 is a person, not a vendor. He is not able to afford to let go of $1600 in the hopes that he will eventually make it back over time of selling the remaining 2000.
I hope this clears some of this up.
Tanvir that makes sense, I guess I'm just operating under the assumption that it wouldn't really be too difficult to sell that extra 2000 since I believe there is more interest than what will actually be shown, it's just that people aren't willing to risk paying $1.20 per slider instead of $0.80 so they don't place any order. Heck I'd even say that if he were to order the extra $2k, he should charge a bit more as a "retail" price for the in-stock sliders since that's how others GBs operate. >_>
You're all looking at this wrong.
If we reach 8000 MOQ at $1.00 per, BlindAssassin111 is given $8000 of our money to order with. On the other hand, if we reach 10000 MOQ at $0.80 per, he is still given $8000 of our money to order with. Nothing wrong with that, he makes no extra profit or less profit from selling 10000 over 8000.
However, this is the scenario you are thinking of:
Reach 8000 MOQ, raised $8000.
Instead of waiting to reach 10000 MOQ, go ahead and use the $8000 to order 10000.
Sell these 10000 at $0.80 each instead of $1.00 each.
By this point, we have affirmed that 8000*1.00 = 8000 and 10000*0.80 = 8000.
However, let's say this GB has only generated enough interest for 8000 housings and lets say he goes ahead and orders 10000 housings.
He will now sell 8000, as this is the only amount of interest generated, but at the 10000 price.
8000*0.80 = 6400. And now he has 2000 housings left which total up 1600 if sold at 0.80.
Remember that we only generated enough interest for 8000, though. This means he is left with 2000 that will not sell. At least, not right away.
BlindAssassin111 is a person, not a vendor. He is not able to afford to let go of $1600 in the hopes that he will eventually make it back over time of selling the remaining 2000.
I hope this clears some of this up.
The stabs are 3D printed - the Sliders too? Can you show the prototypes? I'm curious how they are made cause I was looking into MX stem modding :D Thanks!
Sliders and top housings will be injection molded. I can't really show the prototypes as they are translucent and my camera isn't able to focus on them at all because of this.
You're all looking at this wrong.
If we reach 8000 MOQ at $1.00 per, BlindAssassin111 is given $8000 of our money to order with. On the other hand, if we reach 10000 MOQ at $0.80 per, he is still given $8000 of our money to order with. Nothing wrong with that, he makes no extra profit or less profit from selling 10000 over 8000.
However, this is the scenario you are thinking of:
Reach 8000 MOQ, raised $8000.
Instead of waiting to reach 10000 MOQ, go ahead and use the $8000 to order 10000.
Sell these 10000 at $0.80 each instead of $1.00 each.
By this point, we have affirmed that 8000*1.00 = 8000 and 10000*0.80 = 8000.
However, let's say this GB has only generated enough interest for 8000 housings and lets say he goes ahead and orders 10000 housings.
He will now sell 8000, as this is the only amount of interest generated, but at the 10000 price.
8000*0.80 = 6400. And now he has 2000 housings left which total up 1600 if sold at 0.80.
Remember that we only generated enough interest for 8000, though. This means he is left with 2000 that will not sell. At least, not right away.
BlindAssassin111 is a person, not a vendor. He is not able to afford to let go of $1600 in the hopes that he will eventually make it back over time of selling the remaining 2000.
I hope this clears some of this up.
I don't get this. You are "changing" the price of the housings in the last step thus having 2000 "extra" sliders.
If we give him $8000 and he can order 10k housings instead of 8k we should receive more housings for our share of those $8k.
If he does not run into loses ordering 10k housings at $8k, we should receive more housings for our same money, because that's exactly what's happening with the order to the factory.
Maybe I'm lacking some information and the money to make 10k housings is not the same and then he'd need to pay some of the sliders out of his pocket, but if the factory quoted 10k housings and 8k housings at the same price, we should get 10k housings for the price of 8k and receive proportionally more housings for the same money.
Realize this point, at least. The manufacturer would not quote 8000 and 10000 at the same price point. If they did, that would be plain stupid on their part. Why would anyone order the lower amount if both costed the same?
Sometimes you will get way more bang for your buck with ordering more. For example, I wanted to try ordering some Kwark PCBs from JLCPCB. I don't remember exact prices but at 5 moq, I pay maybe $30, $6 each. At 10 moq I paid $45, $4.5 each. I'm paying less per unit but the manufacturer is still getting more of my money. The prices aren't exact but the ratios are similar to what I remember.
Now, with BlindAssassin111's OP, some are assuming that is the manufacturer quoted prices. There's just no way because of what I explained earlier. You may get heavy per unit price drops but you'll still be paying more overall. What you're seeing happen between the 8000 and 10000 moq mark is the OP taking a loss in profit for the benefit of the consumers. He wants us to have better prices with little consideration to the profit he himself is making. That is why the price of 8000 and 10000 units are the "same."
Top housings:
- QTY 6,000: $1.20
- QTY 8,000: $1.00
- QTY 10,000: $0.80
- QTY 12,000: $0.70
- QTY 16,000: $0.60
- QTY 20,000: $0.50
Realize this point, at least. The manufacturer would not quote 8000 and 10000 at the same price point. If they did, that would be plain stupid on their part. Why would anyone order the lower amount if both costed the same?
Sometimes you will get way more bang for your buck with ordering more. For example, I wanted to try ordering some Kwark PCBs from JLCPCB. I don't remember exact prices but at 5 moq, I pay maybe $30, $6 each. At 10 moq I paid $45, $4.5 each. I'm paying less per unit but the manufacturer is still getting more of my money. The prices aren't exact but the ratios are similar to what I remember.
Now, with BlindAssassin111's OP, some are assuming that is the manufacturer quoted prices. There's just no way because of what I explained earlier. You may get heavy per unit price drops but you'll still be paying more overall. What you're seeing happen between the 8000 and 10000 moq mark is the OP taking a loss in profit for the benefit of the consumers. He wants us to have better prices with little consideration to the profit he himself is making. That is why the price of 8000 and 10000 units are the "same."
Your examples all apply to per unit production like when you make your own case or PCB - with plastic injection you pay for the molds first then the per "piece" production is a tiny fraction of that cost - the parts are very tiny hence I assume its not more than $1-1.5k per mold - that's $3k together for housing and stem - assumption would be each mold makes maybe 9/16/25/36 at the same time or even more. lets say it's just 16 at the same time, that's 625 injection runs each for 10,000 each. each single piece might end up costing anywhere between 0.5 and 10 cents. lets say worst is 10 cents each. so to finance 10,000 pieces each you need $2,000 for the production cost and $3k for the molds which is combined $5,000 - now we need to ship those, they're tiny so I would assume less than a max of $200 via DHL if the company is in China - that's $5.2k - he probably is in the US so he can skip the import taxes and sales import tax as private person - now when he sells them he also does not have to add a sales tax as company unless he sells it to someone in his own state. We want to make sure he can eat some food and make more stuff for which he needs prototyping money so we double the price and round it to $10,400 sales price for 10,000 each housing and stem. that's $0.52 per piece.
I can see where the high price comes from, because the molds need to be paid off. the downside here is that this isn't scalable - I don't even think there are that many alps guys around to get the lowest MOQ filled (I didnt check where it is atm). So yeah, it comes down to financing the molds. In a perfect world he would be able to sell a few thousand every week and the price would be 5 cents a stem... but that won't happen with such a extremely small group of people that would be interested in it. I would get some but I just can't justify it at that price :/
EDIT:Top housings:
- QTY 6,000: $1.20
- QTY 8,000: $1.00
- QTY 10,000: $0.80
- QTY 12,000: $0.70
- QTY 16,000: $0.60
- QTY 20,000: $0.50
I guess I added either too much margin or you forgot shipping cost :D close though :P
You're right. I'm no expert in this subject, I was just giving a somewhat comparable scenario. I agree the prices aren't the best but it's a necessary evil in this niche hobby within an already somewhat niche hobby(alps within MK's), especially given tooling costs. Best case scenario would have been to have some vendors pick up a ton but idk how likely that is. Hopefully, TopClack gives this a shoutout and we see a large increase in orders.
I would like to say that BlindAssassin111 did give us the price of tooling and he said it was around $6000. I don't know if this is each or total for the two.
As neat as this is, there are a couple things for it to be usable for me, personally (I'll keep my eye out for another round):
- Are the sliders the same as ALPS thickness so that the leaves exert the same return force? I did a page search and didn't see this mentioned. The slider looks thicker, and I don't need my browns to be any stiffer.
- How tight are the slider/top tolerances? Browns are very tight, while later types and Matias allow too much wobble in the caps for my taste.
- Slots for ALPS dampened/Matias quiet bumpers. Slots could be added and just left open for folks who like clacking.
Thanks.
Just wanted to clarify - this is an 11,000 MOQ for just the stems, then another 6/8/10k for the top housings? I am hoping this goes through because I want to give ALPS a fair shake.
Hey, forgive me if this has been asked before but will Cherry stabilizers work with these? Just making sure as I'm gonna need to know if I need have a special plate made.
Hey, forgive me if this has been asked before but will Cherry stabilizers work with these? Just making sure as I'm gonna need to know if I need have a special plate made.
Cherry stabs will work the exact same as if the switch where an MX style switch. Only thing that was different is if you wanted to use alps stabs on the cherry caps, which is why I made the inserts.
Really excited about this, but just one question: any chance for a round two? I'd love this, but I just can't afford it right now.
Really excited about this, but just one question: any chance for a round two? I'd love this, but I just can't afford it right now.
Any chance you could team up with a distributor to buy out any needed moq? Maybe NovelKeys or KBDfans?
Any chance you could team up with a distributor to buy out any needed moq? Maybe NovelKeys or KBDfans?
Maybe... ;)
Since we're now making updated parts for classic Alps SKC switches, any plans on making SKCM Brown/Neon Green tactile leaves?
Since we're now making updated parts for classic Alps SKC switches, any plans on making SKCM Brown/Neon Green tactile leaves?
Might have something in the works... ;)
****, you might as well just have a GB for newly made complicated alps in MX pcb mounts...
Is is even possible to make that happen?
Guess I'll join... Don't even have Alps yet.that's the spirit!
Reminder:
Orders will close on 3/26 at midnight central time, make sure to have your orders in before then!!!
If I want to add to my order, should I PM you or resubmit and you'll just delete the old submission?
If I want to add to my order, should I PM you or resubmit and you'll just delete the old submission?
You can choose to resubmit or let me edit it, but either way PM me so I know when you resubmit, or so I know what you want to change to.
Since we're nearly within 1000 more sliders to hit MOQ, I'll go in for another 115 sliders and housings if we don't make it. Don't want to make any changes yet, but if it'll help get us over the bump I'll double down.
Update:
We are almost at 10k sliders!!! We are on the home stretch, and I hope we can the the last ~1000 without an issue.
As for the top housings we are above the MOQ of 6k, now if everyone were to order an extra 70 on average, we could actually get 10k. I am trying to see if I can get a vendor to order some top housings in order to help bring cost down, but I don't know how many may be ordered. If you wish to order more to help towards a lower cost, PM about changing your order and I can edit it for you, Please do not resubmit in order to do this as it would actually be harder to work through as I have to manually go through and delete all old responses.
And remember orders close on Monday at midnight central time, so make sure to have yours in before that as I will be closing the form at midnight.
Thank you all for the orders!!!
Haha, almost submitted another order before I decided I should read the updated posts first. I sent you a PM.
Changed my order to:
70 sliders * 4 orders = 280 sliders
70 housings * 4 orders = 280 housings
8 stab inserts
Hope we're able to bring on the savings :)
Haha, almost submitted another order before I decided I should read the updated posts first. I sent you a PM.
Changed my order to:
70 sliders * 4 orders = 280 sliders
70 housings * 4 orders = 280 housings
8 stab inserts
Hope we're able to bring on the savings :)
You were the one exception to the resubmit, as I was expecting yours, it is just harder to keep track of when people resubmit without me noticing or being told. It was just the better all around alternative. Thank you for ordering more!!! I will work to get the prices down as well, so I will be working on that in the background.
Reminder:
We are now in the last ~48 hours of the GB orders, and only have 635 left before we hit MOQ. So if you are on the fence, it is either now or never!
Someone posted a reminder on /r/mechanicalkeyboards yesterday so I wouldn't do another reminder there until the last day. However, it's been 10 days since the last update on /r/mechmarket, which was by you. I'd post it myself, but unlike /r/mk, I think it has to be someone involved in the GB for /r/mm. I recommend reposting your old post in /r/mm when you get the chance.
Someone posted a reminder on /r/mechanicalkeyboards yesterday so I wouldn't do another reminder there until the last day. However, it's been 10 days since the last update on /r/mechmarket, which was by you. I'd post it myself, but unlike /r/mk, I think it has to be someone involved in the GB for /r/mm. I recommend reposting your old post in /r/mm when you get the chance.
On /r/mk do a make a whole new post? I am too unfamiliar with reddit to know how post bumping, or equivalent, is actually achieved.
Whole new post, yep. On /r/mechmarket actually. I would hold off on /r/mechanicalkeyboards until Monday morning since someone posted a reminder 13 hours ago.
Here's mechmarket:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/
Here's your old post. You can just copy paste it into the new post and change the title to something like "48 hours left - Nexus Alps Sliders, Housings, Stab Inserts"
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/84f3hw/gb_nexus_alps_sliders_nexus_alps_top_housings_and/
Whole new post, yep. On /r/mechmarket actually. I would hold off on /r/mechanicalkeyboards until Monday morning since someone posted a reminder 13 hours ago.
Here's mechmarket:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/
Here's your old post. You can just copy paste it into the new post and change the title to something like "48 hours left - Nexus Alps Sliders, Housings, Stab Inserts"
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/84f3hw/gb_nexus_alps_sliders_nexus_alps_top_housings_and/
...I meant to put /r/mm, oh well at least I understand now lol. Thank you!!
Update:
We hit MOQ!!! Thank you all for making this happen, I knew 11k would be a hard goal to hit, but that was the only way I could get the price point I wanted on them.
As for top housings we are only 590 away from a price drop down to $1 each, and if I can work a deal with a vendor for even 2k, we are down to $0.80. The more orders I get for them the more I can save y'all money.
We still have ~36 hours left to order so we can easily hit the next housing price drop.
Update:
We hit MOQ!!! Thank you all for making this happen, I knew 11k would be a hard goal to hit, but that was the only way I could get the price point I wanted on them.
As for top housings we are only 590 away from a price drop down to $1 each, and if I can work a deal with a vendor for even 2k, we are down to $0.80. The more orders I get for them the more I can save y'all money.
We still have ~36 hours left to order so we can easily hit the next housing price drop.
Congrats!
If you do manage to get a vendor involved with the switch tops, would you accept additional orders after this? It might be worth waiting a day for market reequilibration if there is a significant price drop. Then again, I'm probably back to overthinking things and should just learn to accept the group buy economics as they are.
Congrats!
If you do manage to get a vendor involved with the switch tops, would you accept additional orders after this? It might be worth waiting a day for market reequilibration if there is a significant price drop. Then again, I'm probably back to overthinking things and should just learn to accept the group buy economics as they are.
I agree. If the price goes down more on the top housings I’ll order a bunch more.
We are almost at 8k top housings, just 190 away from a price drop!!!
What about users like me who have made several orders? I assume those will be aggregated so that one invoice is sent, and one package when it's time to ship.
Let's get to 10000 people!
Let's get to 10000 people!
We are so close as well, This is doable if we get a last second rush of people, or if people want to order more. Pricing will be 33% of the original price, so you can either save money, or spend the same for more housings(obviously the better choice :)) )
Lol, yeah! I know some were willing to order more if we reached the first break, hopefully they see that we did. Another price break would bring my total down from 434 to 378, which would be very much welcome. Is the potential vendor deal still being worked on?
Lol, yeah! I know some were willing to order more if we reached the first break, hopefully they see that we did. Another price break would bring my total down from 434 to 378, which would be very much welcome. Is the potential vendor deal still being worked on?
Yes, but I wont know anything until later tonight as they had something come up earlier.
Update:
We are now at 13,455 sliders and an amazing 10,100 top housings. We are officially at $0.80 per top housing, next price drop is another 2k away, if we manage to hit that I don't know what to say...I amazed how quickly this has grown in the last couple days, we have nearly doubled orders.
How well do these work with Blue Alps? Would love to be able to use them with modern keycaps but I'm afraid that it would ruin what makes the switches so nice.
How well do these work with Blue Alps? Would love to be able to use them with modern keycaps but I'm afraid that it would ruin what makes the switches so nice.
I wonder how many are just going to wait until these are run again at a much lower pricing due to not having to cover the cost of the molds
Hopefully I wont regret not getting more :-X
Reminder: You have just over 2 hours left to order, please make sure to have it in by then, there will be no extension past midnight. Form will close at midnight.
Thank you all for your orders!!
GB has concluded, Thank you all for your orders!!!
We finished at an amazing 15,515 sliders, 11310 housings, and 181 stab insert sets!!!
I am amazed at how much this blew past my expectations, when I started this project I was going to be happy to get just 2k on order, as I didn't expect it to be popular. I am so happy I was wrong, and I made a product that was able to bring in so many people.
Tomorrow I will start to send out invoices and I hope to have them all out by the end of Thursday, which will be a tough time as I have 120 to send out... I will set the payment deadline to 4/5 to give everyone at least a week to pay. If you have any last questions or when you receive you invoice and there is an issue, Please let me know ASAP so I can correct it.
Also I have been working on making the stab inserts better as I have gained more Alps board recently and noticed that each spacebar size (6.25U, 6.5U and 7U) each have a different offset from cherry caps of the same unit size. This means I will be including 3 different sets of inserts for each size of spacebar, so you will actually receive 20 inserts instead of the original 16. So in total there are 4 different offsets, which has been a pain to make sure would work as expected. Final price will be $8 because of this change as it costs a bit more to make the extra types.
I think that is everything that needs to be said, If you have any questions please feel free to ask them!!
Congrats on the successful GB! Happy to have been a part of it :)
Congrats on the successful GB! Happy to have been a part of it :)
Thank you!!! I really appreciate how active you have been and it has helped tremendously, sucks we couldn't make the next price drop to help save you that extra bit of money though. :P
Paid. Interested to see how these work out.
Paid. Interested to see how these work out.
Thank you!! I am as well, can't wait to have the final product in my hand after so many hours spent designing and testing.
Update:
All but 2 invoices have been sent out, if you haven't received one please check you messages as I don't have an address for you, so I can't figure shipping out.
Of those sent out only 68 remain unpaid, so just over half have been paid so far, some within minutes, which was awesome. Just remember you have until midnight 4/5 to pay.
Paid! Very excited for these. Thanks for the note ;)
Paid. Address was correct. Cheers!
Paid. Where are you shipping from?
Paid. Where are you shipping from?
His mind. Didn't you read his profile location?
Sorry but I just wanted to check, is $23 shipping to the UK for 70 sliders correct?!
Sorry but I just wanted to check, is $23 shipping to the UK for 70 sliders correct?!
Yes, That is correct. Shipping is done be weight but 1lb is the minimum weight for pricing. So almost all orders fall under the 1lb minimum, which is about 1300 sliders.
But that is way lower than every other shipping method I was able to find, most wanted 2 to 4 times that. And the shipping is 1-3 days, which is faster than the others as well.
Sorry but I just wanted to check, is $23 shipping to the UK for 70 sliders correct?!
Yes, That is correct. Shipping is done be weight but 1lb is the minimum weight for pricing. So almost all orders fall under the 1lb minimum, which is about 1300 sliders.
But that is way lower than every other shipping method I was able to find, most wanted 2 to 4 times that. And the shipping is 1-3 days, which is faster than the others as well.
I gotcha, no worries. I'm pretty sure I've found a cheaper method up for anything up to 8oz, just I've definitely paid less than 23 for similar stuff before. Have a look and let me know what you think =]...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0qjGy57.png)
Sorry but I just wanted to check, is $23 shipping to the UK for 70 sliders correct?!
Yes, That is correct. Shipping is done be weight but 1lb is the minimum weight for pricing. So almost all orders fall under the 1lb minimum, which is about 1300 sliders.
But that is way lower than every other shipping method I was able to find, most wanted 2 to 4 times that. And the shipping is 1-3 days, which is faster than the others as well.
I gotcha, no worries. I'm pretty sure I've found a cheaper method up for anything up to 8oz, just I've definitely paid less than 23 for similar stuff before. Have a look and let me know what you think =]...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0qjGy57.png)
USPS actually dropped First class international for non-documents earlier this year, so they basically removed the cheapest option out there.
If this was 2017, I would have been able to ship cheaper but times have changed for the worse in regards to international shipping.
Yes but isn't that for first class mail international? The one I'm on about is first class package international?Hmm never knew USPS had both first class mail and first class package, irritating that they differ in name so little. It would change how I ship everyone packages though, even the ones in the US, as I am buying packaging in bulk, I have to use the same stuff for everyone otherwise it gets much more expensive.
EDIT: (Sorry I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just pretty sure I'm right =S):rolleyes: Uhuh, SUURE you aren't being argumentative. You are not allowed to be right damnit!!! ;D
Yes but isn't that for first class mail international? The one I'm on about is first class package international?Hmm never knew USPS had both first class mail and first class package, irritating that they differ in name so little. It would change how I ship everyone packages though, even the ones in the US, as I am buying packaging in bulk, I have to use the same stuff for everyone otherwise it gets much more expensive.EDIT: (Sorry I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just pretty sure I'm right =S):rolleyes: Uhuh, SUURE you aren't being argumentative. You are not allowed to be right damnit!!! ;D
Plus I am technically right that USPS even wanted more though, next option is ~$35, never saw the option for the first class package service though, so truce?. And shipping time is anywhere from 7-21 days, so much slower.
Yes but isn't that for first class mail international? The one I'm on about is first class package international?Hmm never knew USPS had both first class mail and first class package, irritating that they differ in name so little. It would change how I ship everyone packages though, even the ones in the US, as I am buying packaging in bulk, I have to use the same stuff for everyone otherwise it gets much more expensive.EDIT: (Sorry I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just pretty sure I'm right =S):rolleyes: Uhuh, SUURE you aren't being argumentative. You are not allowed to be right damnit!!! ;D
Plus I am technically right that USPS even wanted more though, next option is ~$35, never saw the option for the first class package service though, so truce?. And shipping time is anywhere from 7-21 days, so much slower.
Haha no worries, yeh I agree it's not very clear =S. Ah ok, having the same for everyone makes sense. Only $10 more so hardly life and death, I'll pay my invoice now :thumb:
Update:
17 people still need to pay their invoices, if you are one of them, please make sure to pay it by midnight.
Update:
17 people still need to pay their invoices, if you are one of them, please make sure to pay it by midnight.
I think PayPal might have a remind feature to send them another email about the invoice.
C'mon people, don't bail on paying after having joined the GB.
Update:
17 people still need to pay their invoices, if you are one of them, please make sure to pay it by midnight.
I think PayPal might have a remind feature to send them another email about the invoice.
C'mon people, don't bail on paying after having joined the GB.
I have been using that feature, if these people don't pay, then quantity drops quite a bit...and that is bad news. Some people just straight up ignored emails about messed up addresses so...Order count has dropped quite a bit from the end of orders to now. Will have to update tomorrow to see where we stand.
Ah, that sucks, I hope they pay it off today. Never understood why people join then bail. At least say you can no longer join through a PM while it's open.
I missed the first order date, but I'm definitely in if you open the orders againAh, that sucks, I hope they pay it off today. Never understood why people join then bail. At least say you can no longer join through a PM while it's open.
...and if all don't pay, I will actually have to open orders again to make up the lost quantity as I will lose enough to drop below the last price drop quantity or even further.
So tomorrow will be a fun day...
I missed the first order date, but I'm definitely in if you open the orders again
:(
If it comes to that, hopefully there are enough people who missed the GB but still want in. I remember at least one some posts above.
Out of curiosity, are the people who've failed to pay ones who ordered housings?
Paid it right before the end of the deadline :D
Just got my first Alps board so I just paid XD
Maybe the shock of the shipping cost threw them off.
Maybe the shock of the shipping cost threw them off.
Maybe the shock of the shipping cost threw them off.
If you end a group by end it on a Friday. People get paid on Fridays. 🤔 I'm sure I'm not the only one who was waiting to get paid.
If you end a group by end it on a Friday. People get paid on Fridays. 🤔 I'm sure I'm not the only one who was waiting to get paid.
Yeah, pretty sure this was probably the case for quite a few people (and really, ending on a thursday? always end on a saturday, sunday, or monday, to give people time to get their paycheck in the bank). I know I do it all the time, wait until the payday ate the very end of the run.
Why not just leave the buy open for a little while longer and extend the payment window for those who haven't paid yet? it gives the people who were waiting on payday a chance to actually pay, and gives the buy time to bring in some replacements for the people who haven't paid yet (and possibly bring the overall price down a little more).
Honestly, if I have to pay an extra $0.20 a housing, I'm fine with that if it means that the housings move forward, I have very little desire to mod og housings.
Maybe the shock of the shipping cost threw them off.
Not gonna lie, even $10 CONUS for shipping what will probably be ~6oz of stuff (70 housings and sliders) was definitely off-putting for me. I paid for my order early on, but if that is the price for CONUS shipping I wouldn't want to know what it'd be like for international.
Well I didn't know about the GB until the last few hours when he extended the date, so no I didn't have time to save up. Plus many people only get paid every two weeks, not weekly. Additionally, beginning of the month means rent/mortgage payments are coming which takes a good chunk of a paycheck. Don't be so quick to judge others without understanding the situation.Seriously I joined on the last day. That's not really much time to pay an over 200$ invoice, although obviously that's my personal problem. Bills > plastic so I paid as soon as I could. 👍
By the way, PayPal functions as a "business account" and you can purchase first class online through PayPal.
If you took this quantity of money to a personal PayPal account, it is highly likely it is going to be frozen very soon.
For easy access to PayPal shipping, use this link: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_ship-now
Since you invoiced everyone, it should give you the option to ship if you go back to the invoice which should autofill information as well.
You can turn your personal PayPal account into a business one. I would recommend looking into that.If you took this quantity of money to a personal PayPal account, it is highly likely it is going to be frozen very soon.Yeah I contacted them about that possibility as I have heard of it happening, their response was "Well, we reserve the right to do so at any time", so can't do anything to prevent that sadly. Haven't had issues so far.
At first I thought I was one of the deadbeats who didn't pay, but then I remembered I filled out the form but didn't submit it because I didn't get an invoice... If you're officially re-opening the group buy, I'd love to be a part of it! Are you reusing the old order form or wait for a new one to open?
If we already paid, do we need to do anything at this point?
Thank you for putting up with all of this BlindAssassin111, I know running group buys can be a PITA. I'll keep an eye on this second round and invest some more if necessary.
Is it still possible to back out at this point? Even though I just received a full refund.
As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
Update:
Currently at: (all fully paid for)
sliders - 13,650
housings - 9,415
stab sets - 155
So we are getting closer to the 10k price drop which means the GB can actually finish successfully, with just under 600 housings.
Orders close 4/13 at midnight and invoices are due on receipt to avoid the bailing issue, and they don't get counted until paid, so I don't get my hopes up again.
Update:
Currently at: (all fully paid for)
sliders - 13,650
housings - 9,415
stab sets - 155
So we are getting closer to the 10k price drop which means the GB can actually finish successfully, with just under 600 housings.
Orders close 4/13 at midnight and invoices are due on receipt to avoid the bailing issue, and they don't get counted until paid, so I don't get my hopes up again.
Update:
So currently at:
Sliders - 13,955
Housings - 9,600
Stab sets - 156
Getting closer slowly, but still not close enough. Please keep sharing this so those that missed it the first time, can join and help make MOQ.
Orders close on 4/13 at midnight central time and payment is due on receipt of the invoice.
Update:
We are getting closer to the order deadline, 4/13 at midnight central time.
Currently we are still 305 housings from being able to fulfil the project. I can't personally invest in those housings as I am already buying quite a bit for myself and that would be a bad decision on my part.
Please spread the word, every little bit helps, and we are so close, so showing this to the right person could save the project, but I can't be everywhere at once looking for ways to advertise without being a **** about it.
As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
I would recommend some type of dry lube to get the best fe"el possible from them, otherwise they will feel fine, just not nearly as smooth.
As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
Require? No.
Should you? Up to you but keep in mind that these are still Alps switches that turn awful with dust buildup so use dry lube.
Update:
We are currently at:
sliders - 14,430
housings - 9,860
stab sets - 163
We are on the verge of hitting MOQ, I have 1 order pending payment for 70 housings so we would only be 70 away if that is paid. Hopefully we can get that last little bit by tomorrow night.
Update:
We are currently at:
sliders - 14,430
housings - 9,860
stab sets - 163
We are on the verge of hitting MOQ, I have 1 order pending payment for 70 housings so we would only be 70 away if that is paid. Hopefully we can get that last little bit by tomorrow night.
Update:
We are currently at:
sliders - 14,430
housings - 9,860
stab sets - 163
We are on the verge of hitting MOQ, I have 1 order pending payment for 70 housings so we would only be 70 away if that is paid. Hopefully we can get that last little bit by tomorrow night.
As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
I would recommend some type of dry lube to get the best fe"el possible from them, otherwise they will feel fine, just not nearly as smooth.As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
Require? No.
Should you? Up to you but keep in mind that these are still Alps switches that turn awful with dust buildup so use dry lube.
Any specific dry lube recommendations, from your or other's experience with ALPS-style switches?
(I'm aware of Tribosys 3204 and Krytox 106, though they're both grease, not dry -- so I'm wondering about dust sticking to it. Also, may be used with Mattias Quiet Clicky / tactile switches, if that makes any difference.)
I should probably actually get housings too. I'll let you know tomorrow whether I'll be in for housings or not.
I'd like to help out with the housings but then I'd feel compelled to get orange alps to go with them, and that would be way more expensive than my current plan of just modding Matias QCs.
So...once Evan pays, we will have hit MOQ.
Thank you all for helping bring this back from the low of near failure back to being a reality again.
Went ahead and closed orders as it is easier to deal with 10k exactly than an odd quantity for orders and I was only opening orders to allow us to achieve MOQ again. Talking to the company to get the order process started and hopefully get the ball rolling before the weekend.
Went ahead and closed orders as it is easier to deal with 10k exactly than an odd quantity for orders and I was only opening orders to allow us to achieve MOQ again. Talking to the company to get the order process started and hopefully get the ball rolling before the weekend.
Well in that case, how noticeable is the rubbing from the housing? I didn't see the part about it in the OP until just today.
Went ahead and closed orders as it is easier to deal with 10k exactly than an odd quantity for orders and I was only opening orders to allow us to achieve MOQ again. Talking to the company to get the order process started and hopefully get the ball rolling before the weekend.
Well in that case, how noticeable is the rubbing from the housing? I didn't see the part about it in the OP until just today.
Rubbing? As in the cap stem to the top housing? If so, the cap stem outer diameter is almost the exact size as the opening in the top housings, so if the switch isn't pressed down perfectly straight and centered, it won't move at all.
You are able to still order, as you have already technically placed an order, I was just closing off new orders. If someone is wanting to order slightly less to allow you to order part of their quantity that is an option. Tanvir175, if you want to save a bit, you can give some of yours to Blaise170. I want to try and keep it around 10k to make it easier.
Went ahead and closed orders as it is easier to deal with 10k exactly than an odd quantity for orders and I was only opening orders to allow us to achieve MOQ again. Talking to the company to get the order process started and hopefully get the ball rolling before the weekend.
Update:
We are currently at:
sliders - 14,430
housings - 9,860
stab sets - 163
We are on the verge of hitting MOQ, I have 1 order pending payment for 70 housings so we would only be 70 away if that is paid. Hopefully we can get that last little bit by tomorrow night.
Awesome!As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
I would recommend some type of dry lube to get the best fe"el possible from them, otherwise they will feel fine, just not nearly as smooth.As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
Require? No.
Should you? Up to you but keep in mind that these are still Alps switches that turn awful with dust buildup so use dry lube.
Any specific dry lube recommendations, from your or other's experience with ALPS-style switches?
(I'm aware of Tribosys 3204 and Krytox 106, though they're both grease, not dry -- so I'm wondering about dust sticking to it. Also, may be used with Mattias Quiet Clicky / tactile switches, if that makes any difference.)
I did my first switch lube two days ago, so I'll start by saying I'm not the most experienced luber. Lubed some Alps Orange with RO59. It's not a dry lube but I've been told that letting it dry and cure overnight is safe. I lubed the sides of the stems and the top housing rails, placed them all neatly on a napkin and covered them with another napkin, and then let them dry overnight. I finished the build yesterday and these are some smoooooooth switches. Can't say how much smoother because I'm not very experienced with Alps, although, I do have an Orange Alps AEK I can compare with later.
As for dry lube, recently I was recommended teflon lube. One person specified Teflon finish line bike lube.I should probably actually get housings too. I'll let you know tomorrow whether I'll be in for housings or not.
Do it :D Excellent way to rejuvenate your worn out switches!
So...once Evan pays, we will have hit MOQ.
Thank you all for helping bring this back from the low of near failure back to being a reality again.
Update:
We are currently at:
sliders - 14,430
housings - 9,860
stab sets - 163
We are on the verge of hitting MOQ, I have 1 order pending payment for 70 housings so we would only be 70 away if that is paid. Hopefully we can get that last little bit by tomorrow night.
Awesome!As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
I would recommend some type of dry lube to get the best fe"el possible from them, otherwise they will feel fine, just not nearly as smooth.As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
Require? No.
Should you? Up to you but keep in mind that these are still Alps switches that turn awful with dust buildup so use dry lube.
Any specific dry lube recommendations, from your or other's experience with ALPS-style switches?
(I'm aware of Tribosys 3204 and Krytox 106, though they're both grease, not dry -- so I'm wondering about dust sticking to it. Also, may be used with Mattias Quiet Clicky / tactile switches, if that makes any difference.)
I did my first switch lube two days ago, so I'll start by saying I'm not the most experienced luber. Lubed some Alps Orange with RO59. It's not a dry lube but I've been told that letting it dry and cure overnight is safe. I lubed the sides of the stems and the top housing rails, placed them all neatly on a napkin and covered them with another napkin, and then let them dry overnight. I finished the build yesterday and these are some smoooooooth switches. Can't say how much smoother because I'm not very experienced with Alps, although, I do have an Orange Alps AEK I can compare with later.
As for dry lube, recently I was recommended teflon lube. One person specified Teflon finish line bike lube.I should probably actually get housings too. I'll let you know tomorrow whether I'll be in for housings or not.
Do it :D Excellent way to rejuvenate your worn out switches!
I would say be careful with a dry lube that is Teflon based. I tried using PB blaster Dry Lube with Teflon on some Cherry brown stems way back & it just turned into a huge mess. The lube dried to white powder that got everywhere on the inside of the switch after being installed & pressed a few times. After putting a few back together & seeing how much of a mess it was making. I just ended up washing them off & ordering Krytox. Never tried a dry lube again, although the SuperLube RO59 does interest me.
Update:
We are currently at:
sliders - 14,430
housings - 9,860
stab sets - 163
We are on the verge of hitting MOQ, I have 1 order pending payment for 70 housings so we would only be 70 away if that is paid. Hopefully we can get that last little bit by tomorrow night.
Awesome!As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
I would recommend some type of dry lube to get the best fe"el possible from them, otherwise they will feel fine, just not nearly as smooth.As bummed as I am that the GB ran into trouble I'm glad you opened it up again because I missed this the first time around. Will these sliders require some dry lube prior to installation?
Require? No.
Should you? Up to you but keep in mind that these are still Alps switches that turn awful with dust buildup so use dry lube.
Any specific dry lube recommendations, from your or other's experience with ALPS-style switches?
(I'm aware of Tribosys 3204 and Krytox 106, though they're both grease, not dry -- so I'm wondering about dust sticking to it. Also, may be used with Mattias Quiet Clicky / tactile switches, if that makes any difference.)
I did my first switch lube two days ago, so I'll start by saying I'm not the most experienced luber. Lubed some Alps Orange with RO59. It's not a dry lube but I've been told that letting it dry and cure overnight is safe. I lubed the sides of the stems and the top housing rails, placed them all neatly on a napkin and covered them with another napkin, and then let them dry overnight. I finished the build yesterday and these are some smoooooooth switches. Can't say how much smoother because I'm not very experienced with Alps, although, I do have an Orange Alps AEK I can compare with later.
As for dry lube, recently I was recommended teflon lube. One person specified Teflon finish line bike lube.I should probably actually get housings too. I'll let you know tomorrow whether I'll be in for housings or not.
Do it :D Excellent way to rejuvenate your worn out switches!
I would say be careful with a dry lube that is Teflon based. I tried using PB blaster Dry Lube with Teflon on some Cherry brown stems way back & it just turned into a huge mess. The lube dried to white powder that got everywhere on the inside of the switch after being installed & pressed a few times. After putting a few back together & seeing how much of a mess it was making. I just ended up washing them off & ordering Krytox. Never tried a dry lube again, although the SuperLube RO59 does interest me.
That dry teflon Finish Line bike lube is typically the recommended lube for Alps sliders as it's supposed to be closest to the original lubricant used in Alps.
You are able to still order, as you have already technically placed an order, I was just closing off new orders. If someone is wanting to order slightly less to allow you to order part of their quantity that is an option. Tanvir175, if you want to save a bit, you can give some of yours to Blaise170. I want to try and keep it around 10k to make it easier.
Very glad to hear this reached MOQ again. I'm looking forward to those sliders and housings.
My built Pearl is waiting for GMK Yuri to go with orange alps and I cannot be more excited.
For those talking about dry-lube, use either superlube or finish line. I used finish line because it was easily available here and the results are awesome. The technique described by tanvir (lube the rails and sides only, let it cure overnight before assembly) is what works better. I wouldn't reccomend lubing the sides of the stem that touch the contact leaf, because it will affect tactility, but to each their own.
What you will have to keep in mind is to be as consistent as possible, because finish line dries fast and when you start to apply it mid-dry it won't feel the same. I had to re-lube lots of switches spending countless hours, so do not fear of using too much, make sure you apply the same quantity and in liquid state, not dry.
Thanks Blindassassin for your work and for bringing this to life, and good job everyone who helped reach MOQ.
The Brown Alps I managed to get are in near pristine condition so I'm actually afraid of opening them and lubing them for fear of messing them up.
The Brown Alps I managed to get are in near pristine condition so I'm actually afraid of opening them and lubing them for fear of messing them up.
Don't be afraid to open them, they are better than other alps and the tactile leaf is fairly hard to mess up unless you smash it really hard. I have accidentally compressed the leaf with quite a bit of force and nothing changed, and when you think about it you are bending it with every press, and they don't want it to fail due to fatigue, so it can be pushed quite a bit further than you think before damage.
Wish I had some browns to play with...only have 1 and I love the way it feels.
Huge Update:
Just paid the invoice for the molds to be made, so we have officially begun the manufacturing process. I will post updates every time I get one or just to keep everyone up to date on what is happening.
Huge Update:
Just paid the invoice for the molds to be made, so we have officially begun the manufacturing process. I will post updates every time I get one or just to keep everyone up to date on what is happening.
Huge Update:
Just paid the invoice for the molds to be made, so we have officially begun the manufacturing process. I will post updates every time I get one or just to keep everyone up to date on what is happening.
Congrats on getting it over the line!Huge Update:
Just paid the invoice for the molds to be made, so we have officially begun the manufacturing process. I will post updates every time I get one or just to keep everyone up to date on what is happening.
Awesome! I can't wait for these to show up! So glad this is finally happening!
Very glad to hear this reached MOQ again. I'm looking forward to those sliders and housings.
My built Pearl is waiting for GMK Yuri to go with orange alps and I cannot be more excited.
For those talking about dry-lube, use either superlube or finish line. I used finish line because it was easily available here and the results are awesome. The technique described by tanvir (lube the rails and sides only, let it cure overnight before assembly) is what works better. I wouldn't reccomend lubing the sides of the stem that touch the contact leaf, because it will affect tactility, but to each their own.
What you will have to keep in mind is to be as consistent as possible, because finish line dries fast and when you start to apply it mid-dry it won't feel the same. I had to re-lube lots of switches spending countless hours, so do not fear of using too much, make sure you apply the same quantity and in liquid state, not dry.
Thanks Blindassassin for your work and for bringing this to life, and good job everyone who helped reach MOQ.
Good to know I did it right :D
Actually, someone on /r/mechmarket sold an unbuilt Pink Pearl for GB price + shipping because their wife didn't want it. I've been beating myself up over not getting it so jumped on that and after a little conversation, the transaction was made. I'm super excited to receive it and plan to use Brown Alps with these Nexus sliders and housings along with GMK Laser Gaijin + Blocknet/Mitowaves + Spacebars.
The Brown Alps I managed to get are in near pristine condition so I'm actually afraid of opening them and lubing them for fear of messing them up.
Is this what you use, btw? https://www.amazon.com/Finish-Line-Teflon-Bicycle-Chain/dp/B00M77CIXQ
Also do you use the spray or squeeze? And how easily is it to remove the lube; do I just ultrasonic clean it or should I do it by hand?
Sorry for all the questions, haha. There's just so much to learn.
Huge Update:
Just paid the invoice for the molds to be made, so we have officially begun the manufacturing process. I will post updates every time I get one or just to keep everyone up to date on what is happening.
Good job about getting that Pearl. Keep in mind that ALPS switches will not hold on the plate on the split positions. Also, test your caps before soldering because I ran into spacing issues in those positions. It seems I soldered the switches a bit crooked (since they have one side on the plate and the other one "flying" so if you push them hard to solder them they will end up crooked). Also, try the switches on the brass plate before soldering them all, mine are a tad too tactile because I touched the leaves while testing in the PC plate.
Do not worry about lubing them. Just try some and compare them in the same plate. Put some caps on them and try them on different positions. If you lube them "wrong" you only need to wash them, ultrasonic bath will clean it completely, but a regular cleaning will do so as well.
I picked up the squeeze 2 ounce bottle, and I would pour some in a different container (a bottle cap) and apply it with a very thin brush (number 3 I think). Be careful with the fumes, it evaporates quickly and could get you dizzy. Also, try to always apply it while liquid. I think my consistency problems come from that, because I was lazy and didn't want to pour every two or three switches so I poured a lot and applied it semi-cured. That being said, when I checked them after curing to assemble them I couldn't see any difference (and that's why I used them like that instead of re-lubing).
Hit me up with a PM if you ever need help with that :)
The stab inserts work really well, and are much more durable than I thought! So that's some good news, too!
They still hit the plate before the switch completely bottoms out (on an alps DCS spacebar), but I think that also has more to do with SP's stem heights than anything. Also, the center stem doesn't have a "stopper", so I think it's possible to insert the alps stem too far into the switch.
It's WAY better than Costar inserts, though!
And yeah, I have a Sentraq alps build coming up!
White plastic case, teal universal plate, Hasu PCB, and Alpine Winter ;)
I'm still trying to decide on switches... I already have an orange, blue, and green board... I have a bunch of cream damped, but those are so... common. haha
I'm thinking pine whites, to keep the frigid theme...
I'm ready for those sliders and housings :D
(Attachment Link)
It's a low profile case for the Tada68 from KBDFans. The plate is a custom one from lasergist.
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It could just be my setup, and the fact that I'm using a DCS alps key (MX stab stems, alps center stem), instead of a straight MX key.
I will be trying to do an investigation into what's going on. It's definitely something to do with the key itself, though. The inserts aren't really any thicker than OG alps inserts.
I just discovered this GB. You mean I missed it by under 2 weeks? Are you going to do another one? I'd like to order 2x TKL sets. Can you still add them in perhaps?
I just discovered this GB. You mean I missed it by under 2 weeks? Are you going to do another one? I'd like to order 2x TKL sets. Can you still add them in perhaps?
Thanks man I appreciate that. I will. Haven't hung around here since maybe.... geez 2006? Just pulled a couple of old alps orange and alps blue keyboards out of the basement today and started thinking, hmm....
I just discovered this GB. You mean I missed it by under 2 weeks? Are you going to do another one? I'd like to order 2x TKL sets. Can you still add them in perhaps?
Sorry there is no room for more orders atm. There will be future rounds but that will be a couple months out.
I have two Blue Alps boards stashed away... Not sure if I'm going to sell them or eventually desolder them though.
I have two Blue Alps boards stashed away... Not sure if I'm going to sell them or eventually desolder them though.
Sell em to me
How many people in this thread bought extras? I'm going to need 70 + a stab set, it would be amazing if one of you kind people could hook me up after the run is finished.
Will there be a chanced to buy an extras on the stabilizer inserts?
Will there be a chanced to buy an extras on the stabilizer inserts?
I habe ordered two sets which I don't need. I can sell them to you if you want.
Will there be a chanced to buy an extras on the stabilizer inserts?
I habe ordered two sets which I don't need. I can sell them to you if you want.
I'm a bit confused when you say 2 do you mean 2 pairs? Or do you mean enough inserts for 2 normal boards?
...
I'm a bit confused when you say 2 do you mean 2 pairs? Or do you mean enough inserts for 2 normal boards?
One set contains 2 inserts for each spacebar size (6.25U, 6.5U and 7U) and 14 inserts (7x2) for the other modifiers.
So in total 20 inserts.
just friendly asking, do we have any update about the project? :)
Just out of curiosity, what is different between the ideal top housing and the ones that are actually being made?
Update:
Just got notice that the first articles(initial test samples) will be here at the end of the month for the sliders and the housings a week later due to the more complex machining.
just friendly asking, do we have any update about the project? :)
Molds are about to start, had a bunch of back and forth trying to make sure the design would be able to be made how I want.
Sliders are good, had to get them to mold in a different way to best match the switch.
Top housings have been much more work as the way I want them to be made is not economically feasible(would cost another $6k to do so). So I had to do some work to get the design to work with the current method, which isn't ideal, but they will perform as intended, and maybe one day down the road I can update the molds if demand calls for it, but I would have to make $12k in profit for that to ever happen, and I don't expect that to happen anytime in the future, but would be happy to be proven wrong lol.
I was going to wait to make the update for when the machining of the molds actually started, but that has taken much longer than expected. Sorry that there has been such a large delay, but it was definitely not expected on my end.
So hopefully machining starts Monday, as I haven't received the final DFM report from the manufacturer going over their design analysis of the parts, which tells me if they are on the same page, and how the whole setup is expected to function. Even have some mockups of what the insides of the mold will look, and they look pretty sweet, will share when I get the email.
Once the molds start I will have a better understanding of the exact time frame, but for now expect the same estimate from before but with a delay to the start of it all.
Update:
Just got notice that the first articles(initial test samples) will be here at the end of the month for the sliders and the housings a week later due to the more complex machining.
does that mean you will have "prototypes" of the sliders and housings?
does that mean you will have "prototypes" of the sliders and housings?
I will have the first ever parts made from the molds, they will not be 100% accurate as they do the first articles before polishing the mold to the final finish, so they will be rougher than the actual products. But I will have actual parts to play with (16 of each I think as the molds make that many so I think it would have to be that many for the first test).
So once I approve those parts, the GB parts can go into production.
Updated schedule(estimated dates):
6/1 - Slider FA arrival
6/12 - Housing FA arrival(ship out a bit over a week after the sliders)
6/13 - Testing and measuring to verify parts
6/14 - If parts are good, approve and order, otherwise there will be another delay to correct any issues.
7/9 - parts ship to me, not sure how fast they will be as it depends on the size of the packages to determine if they can use DHL or we wait 3-4 weeks for them to travel via boat from china
So parts will hopefully be in your hands by the end of July, if not early August.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing the timeline with us. Out of curiosity, which types of Alps will you be testing these parts with? I'm most interested in how they feel/sound in white Alps as that's what I'm planning on modding with these.
Well, seems I started getting together my Alps build just a few weeks too late to join this GB. :-(
How many people in this thread bought extras? I'm going to need 70 + a stab set, it would be amazing if one of you kind people could hook me up after the run is finished.
Update:
The first parts were made, but were out of spec, so there is a delay until 6/12.
Update:
The first parts were made, but were out of spec, so there is a delay until 6/12.
Did you ever receive the prototypes? Is that date to start the production? or to check the new parts?
I'm just curious (and a bit hyped as well) :p
Update:
Got the update from the manufacturer, the samples for the sliders should be shipping out now and the housings hopefully soon.
There will be more information soon, good and bad news though...
Update:
Got the update from the manufacturer, the samples for the sliders should be shipping out now and the housings hopefully soon.
There will be more information soon, good and bad news though...
:( why bad?
Update:
Got the update from the manufacturer, the samples for the sliders should be shipping out now and the housings hopefully soon.
There will be more information soon, good and bad news though...
:( why bad?
SoonTM :)
Update:Nice to see some progress, thanks!
The first samples will be here monday, my rep is on vacation so it took a bit longer to get them shipped out.
Still going to wait for the parts before I dive into the news I mentioned prior.
That sucks to hear :( If molds need to be remade, does that mean extra cost or just a delay?
Update:
Samples have arrived! The color of the sliders looks really awesome in person and that is great news as I wasn't sure how well it would translate from CAD render to real life. I assembled a few on my TKC1800 with alps, and they are super smooth.
And the bad news I was eluding to earlier is the slider samples...I received a FAI report, which goes over every measurement for each sample to check if they are within the tolerances given. That is where the main issue lies, I gave them a spec of ±0.05mm, which was always stated on the drawings and even in email. But somehow on the report the tolerance was changed to ±0.10mm, double the tolerance I wanted. Which brings about issues with some dimensions being to small and others too large. Almost every dimension, when checked against the correct tolerance, was very out of spec, meaning every slider sample is basically impossible to tell performance from. They wobble like crazy because the MX mount is too small, out of spec, half of the wobble is just from that, otherwise they should wobble the same as alps do.
Other bad news, the ejector pin impressions seem to catch on the switch plate leaf spring, which sucks because I mentioned it to them a while back, and had the mold design changed to fix that issue. But I will take the blame for that because I just never followed up with that to make sure it wasn't going to be an issue after the change, after the above tolerance issue happened, I wish I would have.
What does this mean? I am not 100% sure yet, because the first issue may mean new molds need to be made as any dimension too large can't be fixed as there is no way to add material back onto the mold. The second issue may be able to be fixed easily, it may not, but if new molds are made, this could be fixed at the same time to never cause an issue. I am waiting on a reply with the FAI report for the top housing, as well as an answer to this question. I just didn't want to leave everyone out of the loop even if I was partially to blame for an issue.
TL;DR: Samples look nice and are smooth. Manu didn't read drawings, doubled tolerance, almost all dimensions are way too small or large. Ejector pin impressions catch on the switch plate leaf, sucks, caught first time, didn't the second. May need new molds, not sure yet. Waiting on a reply from manu to figure this out. Sorry...
Any pics of the sample colors?
Try just taking a picture outside during the day. How about the 3d printed parts? Any news on those? When is the next update expected?
Update:
Samples have arrived! The color of the sliders looks really awesome in person and that is great news as I wasn't sure how well it would translate from CAD render to real life. I assembled a few on my TKC1800 with alps, and they are super smooth.
And the bad news I was eluding to earlier is the slider samples...I received a FAI report, which goes over every measurement for each sample to check if they are within the tolerances given. That is where the main issue lies, I gave them a spec of ±0.05mm, which was always stated on the drawings and even in email. But somehow on the report the tolerance was changed to ±0.10mm, double the tolerance I wanted. Which brings about issues with some dimensions being to small and others too large. Almost every dimension, when checked against the correct tolerance, was very out of spec, meaning every slider sample is basically impossible to tell performance from. They wobble like crazy because the MX mount is too small, out of spec, half of the wobble is just from that, otherwise they should wobble the same as alps do.
Other bad news, the ejector pin impressions seem to catch on the switch plate leaf spring, which sucks because I mentioned it to them a while back, and had the mold design changed to fix that issue. But I will take the blame for that because I just never followed up with that to make sure it wasn't going to be an issue after the change, after the above tolerance issue happened, I wish I would have.
What does this mean? I am not 100% sure yet, because the first issue may mean new molds need to be made as any dimension too large can't be fixed as there is no way to add material back onto the mold. The second issue may be able to be fixed easily, it may not, but if new molds are made, this could be fixed at the same time to never cause an issue. I am waiting on a reply with the FAI report for the top housing, as well as an answer to this question. I just didn't want to leave everyone out of the loop even if I was partially to blame for an issue.
TL;DR: Samples look nice and are smooth. Manu didn't read drawings, doubled tolerance, almost all dimensions are way too small or large. Ejector pin impressions catch on the switch plate leaf, sucks, caught first time, didn't the second. May need new molds, not sure yet. Waiting on a reply from manu to figure this out. Sorry...
Can you show us some pics?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd greatly prefer waiting longer for a proper product than receiving an incomplete product on time. Keep hitting us with updates even if the information seems insignificant so we don't get left out along the way. I'd also like to see videos of the prototype progress like you previously did in IC so we can all actually see progress as well, if possible.
Thanks for making the video and keeping us up to date on the progress.
It hadn't occurred to me that the LED cutouts would get in the way on SKCL tops. That's a little unfortunate.
Thanks for the vid. Can you send us pics of the actual parts?
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Thanks for the update. So if I understand correctly, there's a bump on the slider to prevent the keycap from crushing the click leaf, but a side effect of the bump is that it creates a secondary click on the upstroke? Is this something that's possible to improve/fix or is it just how it is? A necessary evil type thing? Also, is there any noticeable difference in this behavior with a true clicky switch, e.g. white/blue vs. a click-modded one?
i don't understand why there would need to be a change in the stem for the cap, considering the tolerances were out on the samples you got given anyway unless you got new samples that were made within tolerance? As for the bump when using the leaf it seems an awful lot of money to spend when these sliders/housings have already been very expensive already. I mean would the end product function without the changes?
i don't understand why there would need to be a change in the stem for the cap, considering the tolerances were out on the samples you got given anyway unless you got new samples that were made within tolerance? As for the bump when using the leaf it seems an awful lot of money to spend when these sliders/housings have already been very expensive already. I mean would the end product function without the changes?
As for the bump, my thought (more so since I originally planned on using these with white Alps) is that it would be ideal to have a final product that has as little possible detriment to the original switch sound/feel BUT only if you knew of a surefire solution beforehand. Since that's not the case, I can't really justify spending hundreds on something that may or may not work. Ultimately it's disappointing because I for one am not sure if I'd be willing to have the double click on my switches - some of my Alps (blue as well) exhibit a weird secondary click on the upstroke and it drives me crazy. But then again, maybe if/when I try it in person it won't be nearly as bad as I'm making it out to be.
EDIT: Would it be possible to re-open the group buy in order to raise additional funds? I know a lot of people missed out on this and it seems like Alps are getting more and more popular by the day. I for one would probably buy a second set for another Alps board if so.
As for the bump, my thought (more so since I originally planned on using these with white Alps) is that it would be ideal to have a final product that has as little possible detriment to the original switch sound/feel BUT only if you knew of a surefire solution beforehand. Since that's not the case, I can't really justify spending hundreds on something that may or may not work. Ultimately it's disappointing because I for one am not sure if I'd be willing to have the double click on my switches - some of my Alps (blue as well) exhibit a weird secondary click on the upstroke and it drives me crazy. But then again, maybe if/when I try it in person it won't be nearly as bad as I'm making it out to be.
EDIT: Would it be possible to re-open the group buy in order to raise additional funds? I know a lot of people missed out on this and it seems like Alps are getting more and more popular by the day. I for one would probably buy a second set for another Alps board if so.
I have a feeling if I extend the bump to the bottom of the slider the whole leaf surface would hit against the slider as it does in the original switches, which would hopefully distribute the forces more evenly and get rid of that noise, but as mentioned in my last post, I can't guarantee that it will actually fix the problem and there is no easy way to test that theory.
I thought about opening order to raise money, but I would have to double the sales in order to make the needed changes so I don't pay out of pocket for the product to be sold. Which is not really feasible, at least I don't see how I can get another 100ish orders quickly enough.
You could always pull a 7bit and start R2 to pay for R1's completion ;) jk don't do that
so given how not all keycaps have exactly the same tolorances for stems is it not better to have stems that you may need to put tape on to get a snug fit rather then spending extra widening the stem by the 0.03mm and then having a situation like cherry clears where the keycaps or switch gets damaged by pulling them off?
I'm also willing to help out on funding another prototype if need be--would love for this to turn out nice! Hang in there :thumb:
How much are we talking in terms of money for another prototype? I can help out again if needed. I’m sure others could help out too.
I'm also willing to help out on funding another prototype if need be--would love for this to turn out nice! Hang in there :thumb:How much are we talking in terms of money for another prototype? I can help out again if needed. I’m sure others could help out too.
Last I was told it would cost near the same as the mold, but a smidge less. So maybe $5k... :'(
The thing is I know that is a 100% solution, but I kinda have to find a cheaper one unless I somehow become Jeff Bezos overnight...
More expensive round 1.5? I missed round 1 and would be totally fine paying some more than others to get these.
There's no harm in doing an IC. I think I probably mentioned earlier that there's a lot more interest in Alps now than I've ever seen before.
Have you posted about this project on reddit or DT? I feel like DT would get a lot of interest as they're more into vintage stuff from what I understand.
Possibly with some of the stuff coming out now that naturally pair with ALPS, like the Modern M0110, you'll see more interest. I actually picked my set up second hand from someone who bought extra, as I also missed the original GB.
Yeah there's also at least two case GBs that I know of that are going to be Alps compatible - UEK and a 65% which I think is called Lunar? Maybe you could reach out to those organizers and get some sort of collab type thing where they plug Nexus?
If I keep the same pricing, I make way more money due to the molds having been paid for. But I would need either 9k housings sold, 12k sliders sold or some combination of the two in order to raise that money...So basically double the sales. That is the one thing that makes that a hard sell, I don't think I can sell that many so quickly again....
Would it be worth trying again to persuade a vendor to get involved? I know I’ve said this before, and it’s probably wishful thinking, but a deal covering the initial investment with high margin long term sales from the completed moulds in return seems like it would be mutually beneficial. I know you’re working with thekey.company on a project, could they give some advice on the matter?
What about asking folks what kind of switches they are using? If they work fine with tactile and linear, and that's what folks have, seems like there isn't a problem here.
What about offering free R2 upgrades for clicky folks?
EDIT: Basically, I'm curious just how many folks are affected. Personally, I was going to use them on Amber's, but I like Browns too. :P
EDIT 2: I'd do this: Fix the top housings (since that's in budget, right?), and ship the sliders as is. I'd put an "I'm sorry" note in with sliders, explaining the clicky switches "may not be to your liking", then offering a full refund in that case. Any returns could be sold as "leftovers / extras" to other folks, who missed out. Those would be final sales, at a discount.
I really think the amount of folks who will hate these enough to return them is few, and you are potentially making a bigger deal out of this than is necessary. (But I appreciate the honesty, and appreciate your passion in getting it right.)
Its a group buy, so caveat emptor, and it's an R&D project which got close, but needs another pass.
Change priority:
1) Stem fitment - 100% affected
2) Stem wobble - 100% affected (technically it adds wobble to pines, but after fix it will be perfect fitment)
3) Top housing cavity - ~67% affected
4) Clicky switch fix - ?% affected (but guessing less than 50%)
I am going to get official quotes for all changes and go from there so I can more accurately gauge what I need money wise to get this project back on track. And from there I will have to figure out in what ways I am going to have to raise this. Getting the quotes will take most of the week probably so I will update once I get that information.
Fixing the top housings is not in budget at all, that would cost ~$5k, I can barely afford to do the stem and wobble fixes, given my estimation of the wobble and clicky fix costs.
OK, so, correct me if I'm wrong : top housings are more or less completely wrong? 2/3 cause issues with the spring / click leaf, because they are the wrong size, right?
And summarizing the other aspect is that, effectively, there is no way to fix this in manufacturing without effectivly paying for redoing it, right?
Can you specify where exactly the issue is in the top housings? Like in a stupid ms paint drawing. I wonder if we can like add some scotch tape somewhere to fix the tolerance issues?
I see three outcomes for the top housings:
1) Somehow we find a venture capital group, or run a donate drive, to fix our mistake for us. This takes possibly years, and is tacitly abandoning them. (The housing GB barely made MOQ, I seriously doubt you can sell that amount again, IMHO.)
2) Ship non-functional top housings. Say "sorry", call it a day.
3) Use the one thing we do have in spades, time, to find a hack to fix them ourselves. Apply this fix yourself to all orders, or let nice, trustworthy users help you.
So what are the options for those of us who bought these for use on clicky switches? My only use for these is on clicky Matias switches.
Update:Just wanted to say thanks heaps for your efforts and for keeping us informed (and good luck with the new housing quote!)
I changed the slider to include a new style click leaf protector, this should hopefully eliminate the double click as the leaf will contact a larger area just like it originally did, and I actually reduced the size of the protector to allow a bit more movement from the leaf to try and change the sound that much less.
(Attachment Link)
Update:
I changed the slider to include a new style click leaf protector, this should hopefully eliminate the double click as the leaf will contact a larger area just like it originally did, and I actually reduced the size of the protector to allow a bit more movement from the leaf to try and change the sound that much less.
(Attachment Link)
Dump question as im not as familiar with Alps internals as many are here. Would this new mold have an effect for tactile Alps (Orange, Brown, Salmon)?
Dump question as im not as familiar with Alps internals as many are here. Would this new mold have an effect for tactile Alps (Orange, Brown, Salmon)?
Not dumb, I am just to familiar with how they work and forget to mention things that are obvious to me after doing all of this work.
Tactile switches are not effected by this bump, the leafs have a cutout in the middle of the part that contacts the slider, needed to clear the spring and this bump rides in that cutout as well, so it would change anything.
Dump question as im not as familiar with Alps internals as many are here. Would this new mold have an effect for tactile Alps (Orange, Brown, Salmon)?
Not dumb, I am just to familiar with how they work and forget to mention things that are obvious to me after doing all of this work.
Tactile switches are not effected by this bump, the leafs have a cutout in the middle of the part that contacts the slider, needed to clear the spring and this bump rides in that cutout as well, so it wouldn't change anything.
Dump question as im not as familiar with Alps internals as many are here. Would this new mold have an effect for tactile Alps (Orange, Brown, Salmon)?
Not dumb, I am just to familiar with how they work and forget to mention things that are obvious to me after doing all of this work.
Tactile switches are not effected by this bump, the leafs have a cutout in the middle of the part that contacts the slider, needed to clear the spring and this bump rides in that cutout as well, so it wouldn't change anything.
So this may legitimately be a dumb question, but have you ever experienced a double click (click on the upstroke) with un-modified clicky Alps? Because I've had a few instances with both white and blue Alps where after taking them apart and putting them back together, something gets slightly misaligned or jammed and it creates a double click. I've been wondering if somehow it's a similar issue with the Nexus sliders (and if so, have a similar solution).
hey BlindAssassin, how are thing coming along? Did the machining for the adjusted molds start? do you have some news? :)
Since the slider was redesigned, should you really proceed to a new final production mold or do a test first to make sure the redesign really works correctly? I also do not understand why the manufacturer will not correct the tolerance level to match what was originally agreed. They were the one's than changed it to an incorrect value. If you redesign the mold, then the entire cost is on the person redesigning. I am not trying to be critical here, just making observations. I am really surprised the manu could screw up the tolerance and not make good on it. Especially considering the only value American manufacturing has is to get the job done right, since we know it won't be cheap. If an injection mold leaves a rough spot on the slider, I can file it... it's not that big of a deal since I will be filing the top housings anyway. Hopefully things will work out.
I'm sure it's already been answered at some point, but are there expected to be extra available?
I'm sure it's already been answered at some point, but are there expected to be extra available?
Yes, these will be available after the GB orders are fulfilled.
Update:
I am still working on getting the money to fix the molds in the background, so nothing major has happened and I haven't stopped the project. Hopefully will have something in a couple weeks depending on how things go.
Also I have debated about possibly changing the color of the sliders and housings. Changing the Sliders is just a thought, nothing set in stone just a thought. But for the housings, I am most likely going to do it as they are a dark gray right now and I think I would rather make them more of a black to match the bottom housings better or to better match the pine housings which are a darker gray than what mine are. Thoughts are welcome, don't have good pictures of the housing color but the pantone color is PQ-19-4008TCX, and I am looking at changing to PQ-19-3911TCX.
Also working on fixing my car which hasn't been able to drive for over 3 months, so I am busy working on that as well...life is fun.
Update:
I have been contemplating a color change for the slider and I think I have decided on the new color.
(Attachment Link)
PANTONE PQ-2368C
And the top housing will be changed to PANTONE PQ-Black6C.
The parts will look like this when together.(Had to adjust Gamma quite a bit to get the black to render dark enough but without loosing quality, so it will be darker still)
(Attachment Link)
As for funds, still working in the background but it is slow...
Update:
I have been contemplating a color change for the slider and I think I have decided on the new color.
(Attachment Link)
PANTONE PQ-2368C
And the top housing will be changed to PANTONE PQ-Black6C.
The parts will look like this when together.(Had to adjust Gamma quite a bit to get the black to render dark enough but without loosing quality, so it will be darker still)
(Attachment Link)
As for funds, still working in the background but it is slow...
Hello
Thinking about grabbing a Preonic with ALPs plate.
What are the chances of a R2 or extras?
Thank you :)
Thanks Bud and good luck with everything :).Hello
Thinking about grabbing a Preonic with ALPs plate.
What are the chances of a R2 or extras?
Thank you :)
Chances are good. More info. will be announced when I actually have the GB orders fulfilled.
Still working on getting the money btw, haven't given up. Hopefully I will have it in the next week or two.
Update:
Who likes good news? No one? :( Well I guess the following doesn't matter...Jk :P
So I now have the money to pay for the mold fixes, and I am awaiting the invoice from the manufacturer so that I can pay them and get the changes started right away. I also updated the colors as stated before because I wanted a different look and never fully loved the marigold color, it was just something different at the time and I went with it.
The changes will take ~14 days from payment and then after that I will get new samples, at which point I hope they are perfect and production can be paid for right away. Production should take about 22 days from what I was quoted(quote says 18 for sliders but I expect it may be a tad longer)
So get the hype train up and running because we are back in business!!!
Update:
Who likes good news? No one? :( Well I guess the following doesn't matter...Jk :P
So I now have the money to pay for the mold fixes, and I am awaiting the invoice from the manufacturer so that I can pay them and get the changes started right away. I also updated the colors as stated before because I wanted a different look and never fully loved the marigold color, it was just something different at the time and I went with it.
The changes will take ~14 days from payment and then after that I will get new samples, at which point I hope they are perfect and production can be paid for right away. Production should take about 22 days from what I was quoted(quote says 18 for sliders but I expect it may be a tad longer)
So get the hype train up and running because we are back in business!!!
Update:
Who likes good news? No one? :( Well I guess the following doesn't matter...Jk :P
So I now have the money to pay for the mold fixes, and I am awaiting the invoice from the manufacturer so that I can pay them and get the changes started right away. I also updated the colors as stated before because I wanted a different look and never fully loved the marigold color, it was just something different at the time and I went with it.
The changes will take ~14 days from payment and then after that I will get new samples, at which point I hope they are perfect and production can be paid for right away. Production should take about 22 days from what I was quoted(quote says 18 for sliders but I expect it may be a tad longer)
So get the hype train up and running because we are back in business!!!
Update:
Who likes good news? No one? :( Well I guess the following doesn't matter...Jk :P
So I now have the money to pay for the mold fixes, and I am awaiting the invoice from the manufacturer so that I can pay them and get the changes started right away. I also updated the colors as stated before because I wanted a different look and never fully loved the marigold color, it was just something different at the time and I went with it.
The changes will take ~14 days from payment and then after that I will get new samples, at which point I hope they are perfect and production can be paid for right away. Production should take about 22 days from what I was quoted(quote says 18 for sliders but I expect it may be a tad longer)
So get the hype train up and running because we are back in business!!!
Update:
Who likes good news? No one? :( Well I guess the following doesn't matter...Jk :P
So I now have the money to pay for the mold fixes, and I am awaiting the invoice from the manufacturer so that I can pay them and get the changes started right away. I also updated the colors as stated before because I wanted a different look and never fully loved the marigold color, it was just something different at the time and I went with it.
The changes will take ~14 days from payment and then after that I will get new samples, at which point I hope they are perfect and production can be paid for right away. Production should take about 22 days from what I was quoted(quote says 18 for sliders but I expect it may be a tad longer)
So get the hype train up and running because we are back in business!!!
Update:
Invoice has been paid, so the machining process will begin any day now!
Update:
Invoice has been paid, so the machining process will begin any day now!
Very glad to hear that, thanks again for all your effort and the updates!
Will you let us know a timeline when you have one? Are you now waiting for prototypes again or complete production is being done already?
Thanks!!
@BlindAssassin111: Thanks for this. I re-read the description, which answered my question.
Update:
I now have all of the stab inserts in my possession! Sadly the spacebar inserts are taller, and will need to be filed down so as to not hit the plate before bottom out, but the 2U ones were able to be fixed before that whole fiasco, and have no issues at all. In the future the spacebar inserts will be different but for this GB they will be a bit off sadly. I tested them on salmon alps with a MIX profile backspace key(MIX is the only cap that actually fits into stock alps housings without issue) and they feel amazing and work perfectly.
Still waiting to hear about the updated molds/samples, should hear back this week as this is the week of the 14 business days quoted for the fix process. The slider color will be a bit different than the color mentioned before because the factory didn't have that specific sample on hand, as it only comes in the $8k sample kit, and they weren't about to buy it just for me, which is fine. So when they get in I will take pictures and hope the color comes across nicely.
Glad to hear that the stabs have arrived! Can we see some pics? I understand that we will need to file them down a bit so they sit properly?
I'm eager for those pics man, hope this time everything's allright and production can start!
Thanks!
Assuming no more major delays, you think we'll get the final product before the end of the year?
Update:
Okay so the first round of samples(T0) were made last night and they needed to tweak 2 dimensions so there will be another round(T1) of samples before they are shipped to me. So hopefully next week they will get here.
Also just found out that the factory will be on holiday from 10/1-10/6 so that delays the production by a week so early November looks to be the shipping time frame now.
Update:
Samples should ship either tonight or tomorrow depending on how the samples match the specs. So hopefully I get them this week...I am sorry for the delay but they are not the fastest at getting things done, apparently 14 days means closer to 21.
Update:
Samples should ship either tonight or tomorrow depending on how the samples match the specs. So hopefully I get them this week...I am sorry for the delay but they are not the fastest at getting things done, apparently 14 days means closer to 21.
Update:
Samples should ship either tonight or tomorrow depending on how the samples match the specs. So hopefully I get them this week...I am sorry for the delay but they are not the fastest at getting things done, apparently 14 days means closer to 21.
Thanks again for the updates! No need to worry aobut them taking too long. Let's hope they get quick to you :D
Are you sure that the wobble can be decreased further? Because Alps have some wobble on them and I am concerned that at a point the slider get stuck
How much can I reduce it? I don't know actually, it may be the limit already for how much I can remove but it isn't nearly as stable as I envisioned originally, they wobble like cherry switches.
How much can I reduce it? I don't know actually, it may be the limit already for how much I can remove but it isn't nearly as stable as I envisioned originally, they wobble like cherry switches.
Do you think that extending the edges of the slider bottoms up around the stem (in the style of Kailh's box switches) would have helped with stability? Not that it's really helpful to consider alternative designs with hindsight.
Second update for today:
Just checked clicky switches and they sound good...that is all.
Purple housings look cool!
What's the status of the stab inserts?
I purchased extra sliders and housings to help the group buy go through. Hit me up when they ship and I'll sell you some at price.
Sad I havnt join the GB because at that time i can't afford both stem and housing.
Now I'm in love with my Orange Alps but I can't use my beloved GMK Oblivion.
Anyone have extra left can offer me :D
Sad I havnt join the GB because at that time i can't afford both stem and housing.
Now I'm in love with my Orange Alps but I can't use my beloved GMK Oblivion.
Anyone have extra left can offer me :D
Similar to waldorf, I also ordered a bunch to help get this to higher MOQ's. Contact me when this ships and we can work something out.
Have you measured the stems on the slider samples with calipers to see how closely they match the expected dimensions? In light of the recent issues with Kailh Box switches, that's probably worth checking. Is there a measured drawing showing the specified dimensions and tolerances for the sliders?
Have you measured the stems on the slider samples with calipers to see how closely they match the expected dimensions? In light of the recent issues with Kailh Box switches, that's probably worth checking. Is there a measured drawing showing the specified dimensions and tolerances for the sliders?
The manufacturer measures them and sends me the info, they use much more accurate measurement equipment than calipers(which aren't that accurate in most use cases), so I know what the dimensions are per cavity in the mold.
And I have to supply a drawing including the tolerances for the manufacturer anyways, but don't want to share it publicly. All of them are either 1.28mm or 1.29mm and that decision was made long before the issue with the box switches came to light, I was trying to undershoot the BOX spec because I didn't want the stem to be that large and stretch caps, thankfully I went lower because of what transpired.
I will check GMK soon as I only have PBT MX caps atm.
EDIT:
Just tested with a GMK blank I had it a bag.
Does it stretch the cap? Sadly, yes it does, there are visible stress marks on the cap.
Does it make them loose on cherry mx switches? No, the cap is still tight on a mx red switch even after putting the cap on the nexus slider ~30 times. It is not nearly as tight, but it doesn't fall off or move on its own accord and still takes a bit of effort to remove.
It does suck but since the whole box switch issue happened along side this, it was impossible to predict or correct for. I decided 1.3mm +- 0.02mm way before the post for cracking was made, and even after the "fixed" switches showed up the mold was already machined or being machined and there was really no way to change.
Should you be worried? Honestly I don't think so, as even a normal cherry mx red fits snuggly still. In the future I will make an effort to change this, but seeing as I already had to reach out to get the money to make the last changes, there is no money left to do so now as I make nothing off of this GB.
TL;DR: Yes it stretched, but smaller stems still fit well, not enough stretch to worry.
Could we manually sand them down, or is that simply not effective, and not precise enough for a consistent key feel? For later group buys would you get corrected molds, and if so would they have to be completely remade?
Could we manually sand them down, or is that simply not effective, and not precise enough for a consistent key feel? For later group buys would you get corrected molds, and if so would they have to be completely remade?
You could try sanding or scraping with a razor, not sure which would be more effective. The bumps need maybe 0.02-0.03mm shaved total, so barely anything.
The mold would just be modified, they don't have to start over, but it will likely cost ~$1.5k.
So some SA caps from SP for instance are not getting stretched by the stem?
Update:
Okay so I got samples last night for the corrected slider(they didn't even tell me they sent them, so it was a surprise to me).
Sliders are much better now but the stem issue is obviously still there because that is on me not them, had I known about the kailh keycap issues before I would have be able to do something.
As for the housings for some reason GMK cap stems catch on the opening but this was never present in previous samples which is odd because I actually made the hole larger for the remake...So for now you will have to slightly file the circle opening a smidge(0.05mm may be enough on each side) It sucks but at this point I don't know how it happened even after bringing it up to them they showed me the measurement and it is indeed correct.
So I will be going ahead and ordering as is, I know it sucks but these two small amounts of material are the only thing stopping this from being what I had imagined, in the future when I have capital to actually fix the issues I will, but I am losing money at the moment so I can't afford to do so.
Update:
Okay so I got samples last night for the corrected slider(they didn't even tell me they sent them, so it was a surprise to me).
Sliders are much better now but the stem issue is obviously still there because that is on me not them, had I known about the kailh keycap issues before I would have be able to do something.
As for the housings for some reason GMK cap stems catch on the opening but this was never present in previous samples which is odd because I actually made the hole larger for the remake...So for now you will have to slightly file the circle opening a smidge(0.05mm may be enough on each side) It sucks but at this point I don't know how it happened even after bringing it up to them they showed me the measurement and it is indeed correct.
So I will be going ahead and ordering as is, I know it sucks but these two small amounts of material are the only thing stopping this from being what I had imagined, in the future when I have capital to actually fix the issues I will, but I am losing money at the moment so I can't afford to do so.
Do you mind posting a demo video showing how to uniformly file the extra material off? It seems like we would have to risk damaging a cap(under filing) or stem(over filing). Perhaps it would be a better idea to just send R1 participants replacement parts once this turns a profit. I have my doubts removing a precision/uniform amount of material is going to be easy.
Is it catching on the housing or the switch plate itself?
Do you mind posting a demo video showing how to uniformly file the extra material off? It seems like we would have to risk damaging a cap(under filing) or stem(over filing). Perhaps it would be a better idea to just send R1 participants replacement parts once this turns a profit. I have my doubts removing a precision/uniform amount of material is going to be easy.
The stem isn't that sensitive to material removal, I just cut them off entirely using a box cutter(without trying to be careful about damaging the stem, just not cutting myself) and the cap still held on pretty well and I doubt the cap could come loose over time even then. The 0.02mm is what would be removed to get it to the spec I wish I had used instead of the current one, V2 will go back to the cherry style ribs because those are known to work without issue and it is a much safer bet(already made the CAD changes)
As for the housing I think the issue may stem(no pun intended...) from the fact the cap was stretched a bit causing it to hit for the first time ever. The way to fix this is with a small jewelers file(round or D shaped) and slightly file the circular opening. I would make a video if I actually had a camera that could focus on the parts, but I only have a galaxy S5 that can't do macro shots at all...
(Attachment Link)
EDIT: Just tested and the cap still catches on the switchplate side of the switch, the side without the click leaf protector). Not sure why though seeing as the protector bump doesn't actually touch the top housing at all and the top housing opening is mirrored...I will have to make it slightly larger(again) on V2.
I'm surprised no one is raging that R1 backers are getting the shaft, especially when there is a fix. Personally i dont care that he is losing money.
R2 will reap the rewards of early backers? That's some.......!
I'm surprised no one is raging that R1 backers are getting the shaft, especially when there is a fix. Personally i dont care that he is losing money.
R2 will reap the rewards of early backers? That's some.......!
Lesson learned. If a group buys get near the 180 day PP protection period then I'm going to request a new invoice to extend protection from this type of situation. I will probably try to sell mine for ~10 percent under GB pricing and not join R2. Zeal needed 4 rounds to work the bugs out of his switches and I suspect Nexus R2 will need further tweaking to get right. I do feel bad for the people that ordered hundreds+ worth of extra parts to get this GB going. I understand Blindassassin "lost money" on the molds, however, it's totally unreasonable to expect to pay nothing when investing in something like this. Like all business ventures, the profits come after the investment.
I'm surprised no one is raging that R1 backers are getting the shaft, especially when there is a fix. Personally i dont care that he is losing money.
R2 will reap the rewards of early backers? That's some.......!
....next week on CNBC American Greed, desparate man diverts group buy funds to fix his car.
I'm surprised no one is raging that R1 backers are getting the shaft, especially when there is a fix. Personally i dont care that he is losing money.
R2 will reap the rewards of early backers? That's some.......!
Lesson learned. If a group buys get near the 180 day PP protection period then I'm going to request a new invoice to extend protection from this type of situation. I will probably try to sell mine for ~10 percent under GB pricing and not join R2. Zeal needed 4 rounds to work the bugs out of his switches and I suspect Nexus R2 will need further tweaking to get right. I do feel bad for the people that ordered hundreds+ worth of extra parts to get this GB going. I understand Blindassassin "lost money" on the molds, however, it's totally unreasonable to expect to pay nothing when investing in something like this. Like all business ventures, the profits come after the investment.I'm surprised no one is raging that R1 backers are getting the shaft, especially when there is a fix. Personally i dont care that he is losing money.
R2 will reap the rewards of early backers? That's some.......!
I mean, in order for me to fix the molds I would have to have money...when I said I am loosing money it wasn't a front or bull****, I literally have no money, as in my bank account will be $0 after shipping. I lost all profit from the GB, spent all my savings to repair my car and then actually had to borrow more money to keep the GB going, it isn't like I am over here trying to **** people over, I got the short end of the stick as well.
I understand where you're coming from, however, it would be perfectly reasonable to open a R1.5 to raise funds like you did when people left this GB the first time. It would have taken a little longer to get things fixed but IMO you would have earned more favor and trust in the community going forward. I realize this is probably water over the dam at this point as you've already submitted the order. I just hope other GB runners don't look at this and think shipping defective parts for R1 is now an acceptable way to get something off the ground.
I understand where you're coming from, however, it would be perfectly reasonable to open a R1.5 to raise funds like you did when people left this GB the first time. It would have taken a little longer to get things fixed but IMO you would have earned more favor and trust in the community going forward. I realize this is probably water over the dam at this point as you've already submitted the order. I just hope other GB runners don't look at this and think shipping defective parts for R1 is now an acceptable way to get something off the ground.
He needs $1.5k profit on those orders to make it work, on a product that isn't yet delivered, for a relatively minor issue, IMO. IIRC, housings were almost cut, because getting to just the MOQ practically required donations from many users (see above users selling).
Worst case, he wouldn't raise enough, and that would only delay the project, and we'd be right back where we started. Easier to ship a minor defect, and then see if there is even enough interest for R2 housings.
I understand where you're coming from, however, it would be perfectly reasonable to open a R1.5 to raise funds like you did when people left this GB the first time. It would have taken a little longer to get things fixed but IMO you would have earned more favor and trust in the community going forward. I realize this is probably water over the dam at this point as you've already submitted the order. I just hope other GB runners don't look at this and think shipping defective parts for R1 is now an acceptable way to get something off the ground.
He needs $1.5k profit on those orders to make it work, on a product that isn't yet delivered, for a relatively minor issue, IMO. IIRC, housings were almost cut, because getting to just the MOQ practically required donations from many users (see above users selling).
Worst case, he wouldn't raise enough, and that would only delay the project, and we'd be right back where we started. Easier to ship a minor defect, and then see if there is even enough interest for R2 housings.
Not sure what the profit margins are but lets say they are at 50%. He would only need ~25-30 more orders for the lowest 70x slider, top housing, stab kit to make it work. I think it would have been worth trying to avoid shipping defective parts. Considering the hype he built up with the renders and the low/moderate price point, I think an R1.5 would have been a better option.
The low/moderate price point.
I understand where you're coming from, however, it would be perfectly reasonable to open a R1.5 to raise funds like you did when people left this GB the first time. It would have taken a little longer to get things fixed but IMO you would have earned more favor and trust in the community going forward. I realize this is probably water over the dam at this point as you've already submitted the order. I just hope other GB runners don't look at this and think shipping defective parts for R1 is now an acceptable way to get something off the ground.
He needs $1.5k profit on those orders to make it work, on a product that isn't yet delivered, for a relatively minor issue, IMO. IIRC, housings were almost cut, because getting to just the MOQ practically required donations from many users (see above users selling).
Worst case, he wouldn't raise enough, and that would only delay the project, and we'd be right back where we started. Easier to ship a minor defect, and then see if there is even enough interest for R2 housings.
Not sure what the profit margins are but lets say they are at 50%. He would only need ~25-30 more orders for the lowest 70x slider, top housing, stab kit to make it work. I think it would have been worth trying to avoid shipping defective parts. Considering the hype he built up with the renders and the low/moderate price point, I think an R1.5 would have been a better option.
50% Profit is extremely high for something like this and irregardless you're also basically advising him to on top of already haven given up all of his profits once on a buy to sacrifice 100% of his profits again. Do you think the time he's spent working on this, working with factory, figuring out the problems etc is worth nothing? Yes this project is not going to deliver exactly 100% perfect product. However that does not mean that he has done no work that gives you value? Unfortunately due to the small scale nature of keyboard endeavors these sort of things happen. It doesn't give us a right as customers to expect he sacrifice even more of his time/effort for us for no gain.
At least that's my perspective. I didn't join in on the buy originally so will gladly buy enough sliders/housings for a TKL/60% from anyone who would like to cash out of this. The work blindassassins done to create something completely new I think is commendable. Even if it didn't come out perfect.
I haven’t really seen enough interest for a R1.5 of a project that barely met R1 MOQs. I’m not sure where you think that interest is going to come from. Who do you think is going to throw down money on another round when the initial round hasn’t even delivered?
I think before you can even think about any more rounds a product needs to be delivered and show that the concept and product work. You need that to generate some more interest and hype for future rounds.
Shipping out a slightly imperfect product and immediately revising for R2 will attract more people than asking more people to invest in this without having seen anything come from the first round.
Topre is magnitudes more popular than Alps and yet Topre-to-MX sliders are still not up to snuff because nobody wanted to keep spending for a dry market.
The GB runner not having any money to resolve these issues just shows bad planning right from the start, failing to account for additional costs to fix any issues that may arise. That and perhaps also a lack of adequate experience with alps switches at the initial start of this GB.
While this project was well intentioned, there is really no excuse for this current state other than inexperience and bad planning/research. Part of this could have been avoided if the GB runner had taken the feedback and advice from community members into consideration at the start, especially with regards to pricing, instead of trying to be "ethical" and not price more for profits and for a cash buffer just in case.
Inexperience in manufacturing techniques and what is required of the manufacturer to create and modify moulds, also contributed to a lot of the troubles as the GB runner failed to consider an appropriate prototyping plan based on what could be easily modified later and what could not.
So I guess let this be a warning to GB runners who are thinking of running their own thing, to at least do proper research on your end in all aspects from pricing to manufacturing, before starting a GB. It's never just as easy as doing some CAD drawings, getting a quote from a manufacturer, raising cash, and hoping it turns out well on the first try.
On one hand I do appreciate the regular updates. But I have to admit that I am disappointed that at the end of the day, we R1 supporters still would not get what we paid for.
At least for me, the big reason why I supported the housings was due to the promised convenience of not needing to file the openings for my keycaps to fit. But now, for some unknown reason, that main draw for the housings is now gone.
Despite paying more for these housings, all of us would still need to file the openings for our keycaps to work. And this is despite several rounds of prototypes and samples.
I understand that if one is already taking time to disassemble the switches to lube and transplant the tactile leafs and all, it does not add a lot more time to file the housings properly. But at the end of the day, if I knew that I would still need to file my housings down, then I would definitely think twice before placing my order for these housings.
As far as the stems go, well if I'm already filing my housings then what's a bit more time filing the stems right?
All of us R1 supporters took a leap of faith in supporting this venture despite the GB runner's clear inexperience and this is the end result. I won't cancel my order, but I can understand why others might be feeling so frustrated with how this GB is being handled.
The GB runner not having any money to resolve these issues just shows bad planning right from the start, failing to account for additional costs to fix any issues that may arise. That and perhaps also a lack of adequate experience with alps switches at the initial start of this GB.
While this project was well intentioned, there is really no excuse for this current state other than inexperience and bad planning/research. Part of this could have been avoided if the GB runner had taken the feedback and advice from community members into consideration at the start, especially with regards to pricing, instead of trying to be "ethical" and not price more for profits and for a cash buffer just in case.
Inexperience in manufacturing techniques and what is required of the manufacturer to create and modify moulds, also contributed to a lot of the troubles as the GB runner failed to consider an appropriate prototyping plan based on what could be easily modified later and what could not.
So I guess let this be a warning to GB runners who are thinking of running their own thing, to at least do proper research on your end in all aspects from pricing to manufacturing, before starting a GB. It's never just as easy as doing some CAD drawings, getting a quote from a manufacturer, raising cash, and hoping it turns out well on the first try.
And let this be a warning and reminder to the rest, that there is never a guarantee in these GBs, especially when the GB runner is so inexperienced and new. So think hard whether you want to take a risk in a product that may be amazing if it succeeds, or just a bag of disappointment if it fails.
Hey blindassassin I have a question.
When you've been testing these prototypes have you always been using the same keycap material? Or even using keycaps at all when testing them?
I noticed that the binding issue is similar to one that happens with Holy Chickies (a mod switch where you put Halo True/Clear stems in Cherry Retooled blue housing) which is an issue I only have when I use abs caps not pbt. I noticed rereading the thread you used PBT originally perhaps that's why you never discovered the binding issue.
Hey blindassassin I have a question.
When you've been testing these prototypes have you always been using the same keycap material? Or even using keycaps at all when testing them?
I noticed that the binding issue is similar to one that happens with Holy Chickies (a mod switch where you put Halo True/Clear stems in Cherry Retooled blue housing) which is an issue I only have when I use abs caps not pbt. I noticed rereading the thread you used PBT originally perhaps that's why you never discovered the binding issue.
Back during the original prototype phase I borrowed caps of all profiles(from sncbraxsc2) to test with and GMK is the only offender for the catching issue as they have the widest cap stem of all. I have tested with PBT and ABS but most recently I have only tested with the few GMK blanks I have as they cause the most issue from prior testing.
Interesting maybe it's not material choice but manufacturer that has different bottom tolerances. Didn't know that I was also having issues with GMK caps (that's the only abs I had to try)
I have a bunch of different "profile" cherry caps from various vintage machines, and some of them have SUPER thin stem walls, and would fit in a stock alps housing no problem.
Some others have the opposite problem.
Certain artisans will definitely require a more custom housing as well.
The good thing is, most people who are interested in a buy like this generally pay attention to disclaimers like that.
Please don't stab me in the chest for asking this, but...
What's the deal with these sliders? Can somebody provide me TL;DR explanation why are some people complaining? There's just way too much content in this thread, and I wasn't following it from the beginning.
But yeah, if the price is right, I'm definitely interested.
Please don't stab me in the chest for asking this, but...
What's the deal with these sliders? Can somebody provide me TL;DR explanation why are some people complaining? There's just way too much content in this thread, and I wasn't following it from the beginning.
But yeah, if the price is right, I'm definitely interested.
How much wider hole on the housing needes to be compared to the original housing for a GMK cap to slide in?
I'm worried additional open space could let more dust inside a switch already famous for being prone to particles of dust. That is, unless, keycap stem is already partly inside a housing even when switch is in a resting position (making a snug fit all the time). I don't know how does it all look like when a non-alps keycap is on, can't visualize it without seeing it.
But okay, even if a little bit dust comes in, I guess it's a worthy tradeoff for being able to use something that actually doesn't look like sh&t, as all ALPS keysets do.
Also, how's the smoothness? Are sliders made of POM? Any noticable difference next to the original?
So in theory, since you haven't tested these sliders with SA caps from SP, they could potentially have no issues at all? No stretching of the stem and no clearance issues?
They are very, very smooth. The molds are a nice high polish so the parts are much smoother than normal switches are(especially cherry). The sliders and housings are both POM.
Is it possible to "shave" the stem using a simple razor blade? Have you maybe tried it?
Also, what about that new BOX stem shaver tool? I guess it should work here too.
In one of the previous posts I said that I did, wasn't trying to be careful shaving with a razor and it worked.
Alright then, shouldn't be too difficult, I've been working with a razor before. There was blood everywhere though LOL, I'll be somewhat more careful this time.
BTW, I don't know if anybody asked you this before, but do you have any plans to offer the silent type of stems for R2? I'd be definitely interested into that.
Update:
Parts are done and should be shipping to me very soon, maybe today or in the next couple days. Happened must faster than expected and wasn't ready for the cost they quoted for shipping($465) so that wasn't a fun invoice to pay. For international orders, the shipping carrier may be different, but I will update later as I am not 100% sure at this moment, if it is cheaper I will refund the extra money paid.
Schedule:
~3-7 days - Parts arrive
1 day - Check volume needed for packaging(can't easily calculate packing volume for the parts so I need to physically test to figure out the best packaging)
1-6 days - Order packaging
~14 days - Pack and ship(due to the number of orders and me being just one person, this will take quite a while as I have to hand count everything)
I hope to have everything shipped out this month.
Thank you all for dealing with the ups and downs of this GB, It has been hell trying to keep it going for so much longer than I had planned/wanted(took a year to finish this project from initial design to shipping). Plus having all of the issues with the mold and manufacturer along with not being able to financially support this beyond the profit and the help of others, didn't make this an easy product to complete.
Many do not truly understand that this wasn't as easy as just half-assedly modeling the slider and paying someone to make it without any effort in-between. I spent months designing this, a couple more doing prototypes and testing with keycaps(Thanks to both pixelpusher and sncbraxsc2), as well as having to build a new computer part way through the design phase when my motherboard went out(2nd time on that old 3rd gen i7). Talking the manufacturer was another hurdle because the reps aren't engineers and sometimes don't get what I was saying, sometimes it wasn't their fault, others it really was and this lead to so much stress trying to deal with the fact they were basically screwing me for months and months. Then when I had to make the mold changes having to basically say goodbye to all of my 2018 income(even had to spend all income from other GBs to help fix this project), it was a very hard decision that I had no choice to make, and some don't give a **** about that, and that is stupid because in order for this to complete I have to be living...
To all those who supported me thank you so much, it helped keep me positive and not wanting to kill people lol.
To all the haters, thank the supporters for me not killing you, you were close, trust me.
FUTURE ORDERS:
If you wish to get your hands on R1 of these sliders and housings, head over to TheKey.Company and buy as many as your wallet is willing to give before it moves out on you. :P Also if you want a V2 to ever happen, he needs to sell the R1's first, so buy them all quick!!
I also want to thank Justin from TKC as he was awesome enough to help me financially complete this and fix the first issues, without him this project would be in a much worse state.
- quote -
TheKey already sold it? I just see this update there is nothing on the website.
TheKey already sold it? I just see this update there is nothing on the website.
I would like to know also as I missed the gb.
Don't forget the members who purchased extra to help the GB hit MOQ... A few have already come forward with offers to sell at price + shipping.TheKey already sold it? I just see this update there is nothing on the website.
I would like to know also as I missed the gb.
No, they will go on sale once he actual gets them, plus he is busy shipping terminal R2 right this moment so it may be a few weeks.
Any news on the stab inserts?
Thank you!
I got a confirmation from the maker (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97974.msg2676418#msg2676418) of Stemshaver tool that it will work on Nexus sliders too.
Excellent news. Time to get like 5 stemshavers.
Update:
The sliders and housings have arrived!!! Now I just have to figure out packaging, sliders take up no room, but housings on the other hand...
By the way, try to weight the stems and housings and see if you can count them by weight, I know for a fact that it works with cherry switches since they are 1 gram all so 100 grams is 100 switches. Will make it faster to prepare the orders.
Hi for GMK keycap it only have a problem with R3 row right?
...
Anyone here from Asia want to sell the extras pls reply me, thank you.
Hi for GMK keycap it only have a problem with R3 row right?
...
Anyone here from Asia want to sell the extras pls reply me, thank you.
For the original alps housings, GMK R3 is the only issue as far as full travel(still have to file to fit).
Question:
Would anyone be interested in buying any of the purple sample housings I have? They are the same as the final production version, just in purple(the same purple as the sliders). Only 16 exist and cost would be $1 and would be put in with your order before it ships out(still waiting for all packing material).
If anyone is interested PM me(must have been in the GB), I may do it raffle style or FCFS not sure yet...depends on if anyone actually wants them. I am doing this because otherwise they would sit in a box or be thrown away because they honestly have no use for me...
Update:
Got all of the packing materials in today, and started packing some orders(only 15 so far) Have to fold every single box, and count every slider/housing/stab by hand so this is going to take a while...I won't be shipping any of them out until all are packed as I don't want to have to do multiple trips to the post office to send these out.
Goal is to have them shipped out either before thanksgiving or the following week, depends on how fast I can actually sort and pack these.
Edit: Forgot to add, the purple housings are gone.
Take your time, no need to rush. I'm still trying to figure out any other method for you to count them... Maybe by volume? I would have bought a scale just to not count them by hand hahah
This is just an idea but... what do you think about making POM bottom housing too for R2?
I mean, you already have POM slider, POM upper housing, and now all that's left for a buttery smooth all-POM switch is this...
It probably wouldn't sell all that well though. But I'd buy it. ;D
The stem doesn't make contact with the bottom housing, so it wouldn't really make a difference.
At that point you might as well be recreating the switches from scratch, though, which would actually be an interesting idea.
Plus the leaf, and contact plate, and spring.This is just an idea but... what do you think about making POM bottom housing too for R2?
I mean, you already have POM slider, POM upper housing, and now all that's left for a buttery smooth all-POM switch is this...
It probably wouldn't sell all that well though. But I'd buy it. ;D
The stem doesn't make contact with the bottom housing, so it wouldn't really make a difference.
At that point you might as well be recreating the switches from scratch, though, which would actually be an interesting idea.
The stem doesn't make contact with the bottom housing, so it wouldn't really make a difference.
At that point you might as well be recreating the switches from scratch, though, which would actually be an interesting idea.
Yep, bottom housings would be pointless unless I remade alps switches in their entirety...which is something I have though about, but don't have the capital to invest for that yet. Maybe one day I will make full switches but it is something that me and TKC would have to go in on together because it would require a lot of work and money.
I would love to see you guys recreating alps properly and with lots of user input, it would definitely drive alps prices low, increase the number of interesting switches to try and get more people to like alps as well, so more boards and more keysets, specially considering that with your sliders keysets would be compatible with MX as well.
One can dream... but seriously if you ever do it I'm in for the first rounds.
The stem doesn't make contact with the bottom housing, so it wouldn't really make a difference.
At that point you might as well be recreating the switches from scratch, though, which would actually be an interesting idea.
Yep, bottom housings would be pointless unless I remade alps switches in their entirety...which is something I have though about, but don't have the capital to invest for that yet. Maybe one day I will make full switches but it is something that me and TKC would have to go in on together because it would require a lot of work and money.
I would love to see you guys recreating alps properly and with lots of user input, it would definitely drive alps prices low, increase the number of interesting switches to try and get more people to like alps as well, so more boards and more keysets, specially considering that with your sliders keysets would be compatible with MX as well.
One can dream... but seriously if you ever do it I'm in for the first rounds.
Because mx has more popularity, and many mx sets barely meet moq anyways.The stem doesn't make contact with the bottom housing, so it wouldn't really make a difference.
At that point you might as well be recreating the switches from scratch, though, which would actually be an interesting idea.
Yep, bottom housings would be pointless unless I remade alps switches in their entirety...which is something I have though about, but don't have the capital to invest for that yet. Maybe one day I will make full switches but it is something that me and TKC would have to go in on together because it would require a lot of work and money.
I would love to see you guys recreating alps properly and with lots of user input, it would definitely drive alps prices low, increase the number of interesting switches to try and get more people to like alps as well, so more boards and more keysets, specially considering that with your sliders keysets would be compatible with MX as well.
One can dream... but seriously if you ever do it I'm in for the first rounds.
The thing I don't understand here is why more people don't just make caps with an alps option. I get that there is less market than for mx, but if people like alps enough that recreating the entire switch is a viable option, it seems like offering keycaps in mx and alps would be more viable. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
After you get all the orders shipped I think it would be helpful if a list of some sort was made that listed the Keycaps / makers that work perfect without modification to the housings, and the sets that require modification of some sort to work correctly. Also if problems arise with certain types of alps switches and this round of the sliders and housings that info could be included as well.All of that information is in the IC and GB threads.
After you get all the orders shipped I think it would be helpful if a list of some sort was made that listed the Keycaps / makers that work perfect without modification to the housings, and the sets that require modification of some sort to work correctly. Also if problems arise with certain types of alps switches and this round of the sliders and housings that info could be included as well.All of that information is in the IC and GB threads.
GMK R3 caps need to have the housings shaved (or use the Nexus top housings) or they interfere.
Sliders work with all complicated Alps switches, and should work with Matias.
Stems were modeled after Box switch stems, so will have some similar issues, mostly with GMK sets. the stems need to be shaved (there is a tool that is coming out that will help to make shaving easier and faster).
There's your list. It's really not complicated.
Not sure if this was covered, do the stab inserts also need to corrected? Meaning are they modeled after box switches?
This project as a whole is a great start already and from what I can see was very popular despite the niche. Maybe trying to make custom leafs would be a good next project? Could make some custom alps one piece at a timeI would love to see you guys recreating alps properly and with lots of user input, it would definitely drive alps prices low, increase the number of interesting switches to try and get more people to like alps as well, so more boards and more keysets, specially considering that with your sliders keysets would be compatible with MX as well.
One can dream... but seriously if you ever do it I'm in for the first rounds.
Maybe one day, but no guarantees. I have thought about it and I am willing to put in the effort, just not sure if the market would accept it as well as we would need it to(look at the iRocks attempt that failed).
Update:
All orders have been packed, which is earlier than expected thankfully ;D.
So I will slowly begin the shipping label process(just buying/printing for now) and then once I have all of them ready I will ship out everything in one go so I don't have to do multiple trips to drop off so many packages.
The goal is to ship everything next week once I have everything setup, but not sure if anything will prevent that from happening.
Officially don't want to ever count anything by hand again...it was not fun having to count ~15k sliders , ~10k housings and ~170 stab kits.
Update:https://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Shipping-Labels-Printers-BL-G8511-100/dp/B001PF1BSE/ref=asc_df_B001PF1BSE/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198109750555&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11547050316016334664&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031149&hvtargid=pla-352125204398&psc=1
Haven't done the shipping labels yet as I have been having issues getting it setup properly and I have been thinking of getting a label printer but one that prints 4"x6" labels is not cheap enough and printing it on a normal printer is not economical either and way more time/material consuming. Anyone have a suggestion on a good label printer that I can get quickly? It must print 4"x6" labels as international can't be printed on the 2.4"x7.5" labels. If there are no good suggestions I will have to find another way to do this because I really don't want to use a normal printer...that would be another couple days and a lot of wasted paper, tape and time.
Update:
All orders have been packed, which is earlier than expected thankfully ;D.
So I will slowly begin the shipping label process(just buying/printing for now) and then once I have all of them ready I will ship out everything in one go so I don't have to do multiple trips to drop off so many packages.
The goal is to ship everything next week once I have everything setup, but not sure if anything will prevent that from happening.
Officially don't want to ever count anything by hand again...it was not fun having to count ~15k sliders , ~10k housings and ~170 stab kits.
Update:
Haven't done the shipping labels yet as I have been having issues getting it setup properly and I have been thinking of getting a label printer but one that prints 4"x6" labels is not cheap enough and printing it on a normal printer is not economical either and way more time/material consuming. Anyone have a suggestion on a good label printer that I can get quickly? It must print 4"x6" labels as international can't be printed on the 2.4"x7.5" labels. If there are no good suggestions I will have to find another way to do this because I really don't want to use a normal printer...that would be another couple days and a lot of wasted paper, tape and time.
Update:
Okay so labels will be paid for and printed tomorrow, then sent to me(had someone with a label printer help) all but 2 orders are going out once I get the labels in. The 2 not going out have been emailed already(at the paypal email address shown on the invoice) due to incomplete addresses and/or random issues within the address.
Sorry for the prolonged shipping period...
Also all international orders are shipping via USPS as DHL is no longer an option and all other couriers are way to expensive and would have required extra payment...
Update:
I will be getting a stemshaver prototype soon for testing on the nexus sliders so I will be posting about that once I get data on how well it works. Hopefully it fixes the issue easily so that it is an easier way to make the stems fit as they should(without stretching).
Still waiting on the labels to arrive, so it may not be till the weekend that I ship them out.
Update:
I will be getting a stemshaver prototype soon for testing on the nexus sliders so I will be posting about that once I get data on how well it works. Hopefully it fixes the issue easily so that it is an easier way to make the stems fit as they should(without stretching).
Still waiting on the labels to arrive, so it may not be till the weekend that I ship them out.
theres also a stem shaving projecthat is gaining traction
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97974.msg2675391#msg2675391
Update:
I will be getting a stemshaver prototype soon for testing on the nexus sliders so I will be posting about that once I get data on how well it works. Hopefully it fixes the issue easily so that it is an easier way to make the stems fit as they should(without stretching).
Still waiting on the labels to arrive, so it may not be till the weekend that I ship them out.
theres also a stem shaving projecthat is gaining traction
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97974.msg2675391#msg2675391
That is the one I am getting actually, I should have mentioned it was from that IC but didn't...
Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/234802192014508033/519298589122625556/image0.png)
:eek:
Update:Still waiting on the shipping labels, the post office is running really slowly for some reason on some packages but others are delivering much faster. Not sure when they will arrive as they were supposed to be here already but are sitting at the post office along with some other switches of mine.
Sorry for the unexpected delay, hopefully it is resolved quickly.
LABELS ARE HERE!!!
I will ship out all packages and then add the tracking info to everyone invoices as it is faster to do them separately. So everyones(minus the one person who still hasn't replied to my email) package should be going out tomorrow, and I will update the tracking tomorrow and thursday if needed.
(minus the one person who still hasn't replied to my email)Would that happen to be me? Because I never received any email...
Would that happen to be me? Because I never received any email...
Update:
All orders have been shipped, except for the previously mentioned one...If you invoice is number 0095 please check your email.
Thank you all for your patience, especially because this took many months longer than planned due to so many unexpected road blocks.
If you wish to get extras TheKey.Company will be selling them in the next couple weeks(follow him on instagram or via his newsletters for the announcement). The faster these sell out the faster a V2 can be made as we need to see a demand for that to happen.
Thanks, BlindAssassin11 for your hard work.
Do we have any updates regarding stem-shaving? I require this information for I only use Cherry profile at the moment.
Thanks, BlindAssassin11 for your hard work.
Do we have any updates regarding stem-shaving? I require this information for I only use Cherry profile at the moment.
No updates yet, still waiting for the stem shave prototype to arrive so I can test and make sure it works for us.
Should we be expecting a shipping notification sometime today?
I'm definitely in need of some extras!
Are there any extras?
Will there be another GB in the future if there are no extras?
Should we be expecting a shipping notification sometime today?
You should yes, I was out for a while but will be adding the last tracking numbers right now(0100 and on). I don't know if paypal auto sends emails or not, so check back in 2 hours just in case it doesn't.
So since it seems like I'm the first I'll give my thoughts. After some minimal testing I quickly decided that I won't be using these. Just as a disclaimer, I don't mean to be too negative or in any way minimize/downplay the insane amount of work that went into this, and this isn't an attack on OP. But as we all know R1 had a lot of speedbumps and sacrifices were made to get the product out the door. I'm hopeful that R2, if it ever happens, will be a more refined product.
I tested these on a board with lubed pine white Alps. I don't think these switches are in the best shape, definitely far from NOS, but I did my best to get them sounding/feeling as good as possible, so I'd rate them an optimistic 7/10. Even so, the Nexus sliders were a marked downgrade. I may be more sensitive to sound/feel than most people, and for all I know the majority will enjoy these. Also, they may be great on non-clicky Alps, but I don't know. First and foremost, the sound changes drastically. The best way to describe it is the switches sound much more hollow. The click is much quieter, and there's also a slight double click (once again on the upstroke). I know OP mentioned this being an issue with the first iteration, but I'm not certain if it ever got fixed. It's hard to say if it's the sliders/housings at fault because double clicking is just a thing that happens to old Alps, and I have no idea what causes it. That said, when I put back the original Alps parts, the double click went away.
Tactility also went down a bit, but not to a point where the switches felt mushy. Wobble seemed about the same, maybe a tiny bit worse. The biggest issue feel-wise was binding on off center key presses. Again, just my experience, but I knew that if I typed on a full board of these I'd be in agony because I hit the edges of keys all the time. With normal Alps this is very rarely noticeable, but on these it was a different story.
One major plus to these is they are smooth as butter. It actually made taking them back apart almost impossible using the chopstick/skewer method because the wood would just slide against the housing and refuse to grip it in any way. No lube required with these at all, IMO.
Last, I tested using the same caps (Alps-mount DSA Granite vs MX-mount). The MX caps seemed quite difficult to put on, and didn't look like they went on all the way. As such, caps on Nexus stems sat about a half millimeter (or less) higher than the Alps caps. I know there were issues with cap stretching mentioned, but I don't remember if SP PBT caps were tested. Either way, I didn't notice any stretching from my minimal testing.
Anyway, that's about it. Hope this helps anyone else who's curious.
EDIT: I should probably add that all this should be taken with a huge YMMV - it's purely my observation of feel/sound vs stock Alps. The convenience of being able to use MX caps with Alps can't be overstated here. Do they still feel better than Cherry switches? Absolutely. Just not quite there as far as my personal standards go.
Should we be expecting a shipping notification sometime today?
You should yes, I was out for a while but will be adding the last tracking numbers right now(0100 and on). I don't know if paypal auto sends emails or not, so check back in 2 hours just in case it doesn't.
I don't have a notification. Order 0075.
Again, just my experience, but I knew that if I typed on a full board of these I'd be in agony because I hit the edges of keys all the time. With normal Alps this is very rarely noticeable, but on these it was a different story.How exactly can a binding switch be considered smooth?
One major plus to these is they are smooth as butter.
Again, just my experience, but I knew that if I typed on a full board of these I'd be in agony because I hit the edges of keys all the time. With normal Alps this is very rarely noticeable, but on these it was a different story.How exactly can a binding switch be considered smooth?
One major plus to these is they are smooth as butter.
@jrfhoutx
Thank you for your review, I honestly think these are best in tactile alps switches as the improved smoothness makes them feel really good(best in brown alps). And yes the fitment in original housings is amazing, I plan on fixing this in the future in order to make my housings slightly tighter.
Ok so I had a chance to check these out a little more.
Disclaimer: I did not build a full board of these, the only full Alps board I have is a M0116, and I’m not putting any of my MX caps on these until I get a stem shaver. I also did not shave any of the housings to fit the cap stems since I’m still waiting for the stem shaver.
So I used Orange Alps as my base because they’re my favorite Alps switches and I had a bunch of them cleaned and disassembled.
I put together one switch using an original top and Nexus Slider, one with a Nexus slider and Nexus top, and one with a Nexus slider and a sample Nexus top.
The two switches with the Nexus top housings were very similar to each other. I really like the purple housing, and think they would’ve looked cool with a black stem (like the samples were) but I understand why they’re not. They have a similar amount of wobble to original Alps sliders. They feel like Alps switches, but smoother. I don’t know if it’s because the original sliders are worn from use or what, but it’s like the difference between vintage Cherry blacks and pre-retooled Cherry blacks (I haven’t used any of the retooled Cherry blacks, so I can’t compare to those), or like the difference between any MX and a Zeal (as far as smoothness is concerned). Since I’m only using tactile and not clicky Alps, I cant say anything about a double click. I like these and I’d be happy using them.
The switch with the original Alps housing and the Nexus slider is awesome. It’s smoother, it’s tighter, has less wobble, the springs feel a little stiffer, and the tactility is a little crisper. Now, the original housings need a lot of work to be compatible with GMK caps, and if I didn’t want to do all the work, the Nexus housings are worth every penny for the convenience. But, for the crazy among us who would be willing to put in the work, I think it might be worth the effort.
As always with customizing switches, don’t take my word for it. Build a few with each of the two top housings and decide for yourself.
Now, on to the stab adapters.
I don’t know that I’ll ever actually use these since I plan to do custom builds and use MX stabs as opposed to retrofitting vintage Alps boards (seriously, the only vintage boards I own and plan to own are M0116’s, and there’s no way I’m ever finding an MX spacebar that size). But the print quality on these is pretty good. The layer height is minuscule and pretty darn smooth. You may want to sand, or file, or whatever, the insides of the hooks where the wires ride just to make sure you don’t feel anything, you may feel that with a little lube you don’t need to. The stabs clip off their print trees pretty cleanly with a pair of edge cutters (which everyone should have anyway). Again, I don’t know that I’ll ever use these, but I’m glad I have them just in case, and they’re a good quality print. The only place I’ve ever had better prints from is Shapeways. Hopefully in future rounds these will get their own injection mold and match the quality of the sliders, but for now, I think they’ll work just fine.
Overall, I’m pretty happy with the product I’ve received, all things considered. I know these took longer than everyone expected, and that they’re not perfect, but these are a solid V1 and only need a few minor improvements. I know everyone had really high hopes for these, and there’s been a little disappointment along the way, but imo even with their flaws these are still a game changer for the Alps lovers in the community.
Ok so I had a chance to check these out a little more.
Disclaimer: I did not build a full board of these, the only full Alps board I have is a M0116, and I’m not putting any of my MX caps on these until I get a stem shaver. I also did not shave any of the housings to fit the cap stems since I’m still waiting for the stem shaver.
So I used Orange Alps as my base because they’re my favorite Alps switches and I had a bunch of them cleaned and disassembled.
I put together one switch using an original top and Nexus Slider, one with a Nexus slider and Nexus top, and one with a Nexus slider and a sample Nexus top.
The two switches with the Nexus top housings were very similar to each other. I really like the purple housing, and think they would’ve looked cool with a black stem (like the samples were) but I understand why they’re not. They have a similar amount of wobble to original Alps sliders. They feel like Alps switches, but smoother. I don’t know if it’s because the original sliders are worn from use or what, but it’s like the difference between vintage Cherry blacks and pre-retooled Cherry blacks (I haven’t used any of the retooled Cherry blacks, so I can’t compare to those), or like the difference between any MX and a Zeal (as far as smoothness is concerned). Since I’m only using tactile and not clicky Alps, I cant say anything about a double click. I like these and I’d be happy using them.
The switch with the original Alps housing and the Nexus slider is awesome. It’s smoother, it’s tighter, has less wobble, the springs feel a little stiffer, and the tactility is a little crisper. Now, the original housings need a lot of work to be compatible with GMK caps, and if I didn’t want to do all the work, the Nexus housings are worth every penny for the convenience. But, for the crazy among us who would be willing to put in the work, I think it might be worth the effort.
As always with customizing switches, don’t take my word for it. Build a few with each of the two top housings and decide for yourself.
Now, on to the stab adapters.
I don’t know that I’ll ever actually use these since I plan to do custom builds and use MX stabs as opposed to retrofitting vintage Alps boards (seriously, the only vintage boards I own and plan to own are M0116’s, and there’s no way I’m ever finding an MX spacebar that size). But the print quality on these is pretty good. The layer height is minuscule and pretty darn smooth. You may want to sand, or file, or whatever, the insides of the hooks where the wires ride just to make sure you don’t feel anything, you may feel that with a little lube you don’t need to. The stabs clip off their print trees pretty cleanly with a pair of edge cutters (which everyone should have anyway). Again, I don’t know that I’ll ever use these, but I’m glad I have them just in case, and they’re a good quality print. The only place I’ve ever had better prints from is Shapeways. Hopefully in future rounds these will get their own injection mold and match the quality of the sliders, but for now, I think they’ll work just fine.
Overall, I’m pretty happy with the product I’ve received, all things considered. I know these took longer than everyone expected, and that they’re not perfect, but these are a solid V1 and only need a few minor improvements. I know everyone had really high hopes for these, and there’s been a little disappointment along the way, but imo even with their flaws these are still a game changer for the Alps lovers in the community.
Are you able to upload a sound comparison video of the nexus-modded white alp switch vs unmodded by any chance?
Hey everyone. I havent been terribly active in this thread, Ive left it in the capable hands of u/blindassassin111
During the GB I invested to help get the molds made. I have approx 5500 sliders and 2000 housings available at TKC
Product Page (https://thekey.company/collections/in-stock/products/nexus-alps-to-mx-conversion-kits)
Sample kits ship for $3 CONUS. Limited stock. Switch openers also available. Orders will ship mid week next week.
Hey everyone. I havent been terribly active in this thread, Ive left it in the capable hands of u/blindassassin111
During the GB I invested to help get the molds made. I have approx 5500 sliders and 2000 housings available at TKC
Product Page (https://thekey.company/collections/in-stock/products/nexus-alps-to-mx-conversion-kits)
Sample kits ship for $3 CONUS. Limited stock. Switch openers also available. Orders will ship mid week next week.
Slider already sold out?
Hey everyone. I havent been terribly active in this thread, Ive left it in the capable hands of u/blindassassin111
During the GB I invested to help get the molds made. I have approx 5500 sliders and 2000 housings available at TKC
Product Page (https://thekey.company/collections/in-stock/products/nexus-alps-to-mx-conversion-kits)
Sample kits ship for $3 CONUS. Limited stock. Switch openers also available. Orders will ship mid week next week.
Slider already sold out?
You have to select 70, 90, or 110 from the drop down menu. The "1" is for the switch openers and sample packs. It is a bit confusing
BlindAssassin, the housing and sliders are BOTH made out of POM right?I'm probably going to wet lube the sliders if that's the case
I think that will explain why I'm feeling binding on off-center keypresses, where the slider starts to grind against the housing much more...
IIRC this is also an 'issue' with the new NovelKeys Cream switch.
BlindAssassin, the housing and sliders are BOTH made out of POM right?
I think that will explain why I'm feeling binding on off-center keypresses, where the slider starts to grind against the housing much more...
IIRC this is also an 'issue' with the new NovelKeys Cream switch.
I got the shipping info, however the package seems to be stuck in Taxes.
All my product arrived on the 10th, excellent work OP! Can't wait to make builds with these!
Can you throw up a diagram for those of use that will be shaving these by hand? what/where should we shave and by how much? thanks.
Can you throw up a diagram for those of use that will be shaving these by hand? what/where should we shave and by how much? thanks.
Here you go. The red line is the minimum(basically shave half off of each one) and you can go up to the green line(which can mean the entire bump) if you accidentally shave too much off or get lazy.
(Attachment Link)
If you want to measure each one out you can, but don't worry too much about going too far, just make sure to remove ~0.05mm total as that will get you where you want to be, tight but not stressing caps.
Can you throw up a diagram for those of use that will be shaving these by hand? what/where should we shave and by how much? thanks.
Here you go. The red line is the minimum(basically shave half off of each one) and you can go up to the green line(which can mean the entire bump) if you accidentally shave too much off or get lazy.
(Attachment Link)
If you want to measure each one out you can, but don't worry too much about going too far, just make sure to remove ~0.05mm total as that will get you where you want to be, tight but not stressing caps.
Just to be clear all 4 of bumps need to be shaved? vs just 2 on one side?
Did anyone else get the sliders for the retooled Matias switches only to find that they don't fit in the housings?
Do you have any prefer tool to shave them off?
He means the stem doesn't fit in the Matias top housing. It appears, at least to me, that the Matias slider is specced very slightly differently to those of traditional alps, and that the Matias top housing is very slightly tighter as a result.Did anyone else get the sliders for the retooled Matias switches only to find that they don't fit in the housings?
I bought them for use in Matias switches; you have to file the opening in the top of the switch housing. This came up during the IC and prototyping, and is again explained in the original post in this thread. You might want to take another look at the first post in this thread. I don't know if he ever got around to posting that video demonstrating the modification (I'm still waiting for the board I'm going to use these on).
He means the stem doesn't fit in the Matias top housing. It appears, at least to me, that the Matias slider is specced very slightly differently to those of traditional alps, and that the Matias top housing is very slightly tighter as a result.Did anyone else get the sliders for the retooled Matias switches only to find that they don't fit in the housings?
I bought them for use in Matias switches; you have to file the opening in the top of the switch housing. This came up during the IC and prototyping, and is again explained in the original post in this thread. You might want to take another look at the first post in this thread. I don't know if he ever got around to posting that video demonstrating the modification (I'm still waiting for the board I'm going to use these on).Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/gx7S8fE.jpg)
It's probably fine combined with the top housing, but I only bought sliders, so rip me unless somebody has some(60) to spare.
Yes, I understand what he said. The sliders in this group buy don't fit Matias housings without modification. You need to file the opening in the Matias top housing to provide enough clearance for the sliders to fit. Using the top housings in this group buy is not an option if using Matias switches, because the top housings in this group buy are not compatible with Matias switches (only SKCL/SKCM Alps). Take another look at the first post in this thread, particularly the paragraph that starts with "Are the alps housings directly compatible with MX caps?"Which opening are you talking about? If you're talking about the opening for the keycap stem then that's not what we were talking about.
Which opening are you talking about? If you're talking about the opening for the keycap stem then that's not what we were talking about.
The problem I (and I assume USRapt0r) am having is that the whole slider is wider than the channel in the switch housing for it to ride in. I mean I guess this can be filed, but that's some serious ****-tier switch modding if so, and the first post doesn't make that clear at all.
The Nexus sliders I measure at a maximum width of 11 mm. The Matias quiet click sliders are about 10.6 mm, and the width of the track in the upper housing is 10.9 mm.
If anybody could check the numbers they get for confirmed retooled Matias switches, I'd appreciate it.
Hmm, my matias housings measure 11mm to 11.1mm(measured both sides of 5 random switches that weren't from the group I tested prototypes with), and I know they are retooled because they are from the first batch that was overlubed from factory after the tooling change.I just tried with various top housing letters. Same story as previous with A, H, B, P, S, J. No difference. I guess these markings don't mean a whole lot, and that my batch is from a different production. Just to make sure, you're measuring the thinnest part of the inside of the track right? If that's indeed 11-11.1 then I can see that working smoothly.
Maybe they did change or there are some "under-sized"(within matias' spec) cavities in their mold and I got a batch of the larger cavities? Hard to imagine the latter as they most likely don't organize switches based on cavity for assembly unless they have a fairly large tolerance that would necessitate such a task. The top housings I measured are cavities A, C, F, I, and O (marked on the top of the housing), all of which easily fit the slider and have no issue.
I just tried with various top housing letters. Same story as previous with A, H, B, P, S, J. No difference. I guess these markings don't mean a whole lot, and that my batch is from a different production. Just to make sure, you're measuring the thinnest part of the inside of the track right? If that's indeed 11-11.1 then I can see that working smoothly.
May I ask where you got yours, and what sort of Matias switches they were? I think I'll just have to get another batch, since there's no way I'm getting these working.
| Cavity | Samples | Contact side | Leaf side |
| A | 9 | 11.04mm | 11.11mm |
| B | 2 | 11.04mm | 11.08mm |
| J | 4 | 11.04mm | 11.08mm |
| S | 3 | 11.02mm | 11.08mm |
| K | 7 | 11.07mm | 11.10mm |
| M | 6 | 11.06mm | 11.11mm |
Is there any chance of a further revision of these? I'm interested in them, but it seems some minor issues are still unresolved.
Has anyone here used them with SKCM oranges?
I still haven’t built a full board with them (mostly, because of the stem issue and not wanting to damage my GMK sets, but I have a stem shaving tool on hand now, so that’s no longer going to be an issue), but hopefully that will be changing as soon as the new Alps compatible CA66 Bluetooth PCBs and plates ship...
Is there any chance of a further revision of these? I'm interested in them, but it seems some minor issues are still unresolved.
Has anyone here used them with SKCM oranges?
So I finally started to do a build with my Nexus sliders. I had been sitting on them for a while not sure what to do with them so probably none of this is really new...
Due to the issues with clicky Alps I decided to use these with some orange Alps I harvested from an AEK. And when I was building the loose switches you know what, they actually felt really good. In some ways they actually felt better with the new top housing and slider than they did before, but then they weren't exactly new switches starting out. But I was feeling pretty about the whole thing and proceeded to make a board's worth of loose switches...
Then I put keycaps on them. Yikes.
The binding is horrible. This is with GMK caps so maybe other kinds are better, but I consider these completely unusable at this point. Whole build is on hold now as I try to figure out what the heck to do with these things because I sure as heck don't want to type on these switches as they are...
Edit:
So I tried some SP SA caps in them instead of the GMK caps and the difference is night and day. They feel fine with the SA caps. But I really don't understand why because when I compare the actual stems of the two sets of caps I can't hardly see any differences. I guess the GMK stems might be a tiny bit wider, maybe that's all it takes.
Bottom line: Do not plan on using GMK caps with Nexus sliders, at least not without some top housing modifications.
So after playing around with SA caps some more (with the Nexus top housings) I can say that while the binding isn't as bad as it was with GMK caps, there are still issues. And it's enough to make me want to ditch that plan too. Honestly I think the problem is simply that the opening is a bit too small so the stem of the keycap is getting caught on the housing on off-center key presses.
Filing down the original housings sounds quite tedious. Has anyone tried using a dremel or something for that? Would that work?
What about Matias switches? I might be more willing to experiment with those than with real Alps.
I'll try thisSo after playing around with SA caps some more (with the Nexus top housings) I can say that while the binding isn't as bad as it was with GMK caps, there are still issues. And it's enough to make me want to ditch that plan too. Honestly I think the problem is simply that the opening is a bit too small so the stem of the keycap is getting caught on the housing on off-center key presses.
Filing down the original housings sounds quite tedious. Has anyone tried using a dremel or something for that? Would that work?
What about Matias switches? I might be more willing to experiment with those than with real Alps.
The opening was smaller than it needed to be, but the odd part I still can't figure out is that all samples were free of this problem yet the production parts had this issue. I tested with GMK without issue time and time again...
To fix the issue all you need is to get a 6mm round file (or a 6mm rod with sand paper glued to the outside) and pass through the top housing and file the opening a smidge. I know it is tedious but that is the only real way to do it.
Sorry y'all are having issues, wish it hadn't gone like this but **** happens...I have modified files done to a degree so maybe one day I will do a v2 that fixes all of the problems, but that day me quite a ways out or never come as I don't want to jump back into the stress any time soon.
Is there any chance of a further revision of these?
I want to do a V2 at some point
Hi mate, any chance you're getting around to doing a V2 of your sliders sometime soon? I think this is a bang on idea, and I'm just waiting for something like this to show up again. It had some troubles in the first version but don't be deterred, nobody gets it right the first time! :D
Anyways thanks for what you did in this project already. It's amazing to see people do cool stuff like that :thumb:
Hi mate, any chance you're getting around to doing a V2 of your sliders sometime soon? I think this is a bang on idea, and I'm just waiting for something like this to show up again. It had some troubles in the first version but don't be deterred, nobody gets it right the first time! :D
Anyways thanks for what you did in this project already. It's amazing to see people do cool stuff like that :thumb:
The plan was to run a v2 this year but that plan fell through unfortunately. Not sure if i will be able to do a v2 anytime soon as I have other projects I want to get out that I didn't get a chance to do this year either.
The plan was to run a v2 this year but that plan fell through unfortunately. Not sure if i will be able to do a v2 anytime soon as I have other projects I want to get out that I didn't get a chance to do this year either.
The plan was to run a v2 this year but that plan fell through unfortunately. Not sure if i will be able to do a v2 anytime soon as I have other projects I want to get out that I didn't get a chance to do this year either.
V2???? How does the v2 compare to the v1?
Would join a GB immediately
Quick question to those of you who are familiar with the end product: I'm trying to find a way to get make the 2U space on an MIT-layout Planck stabilized. Unfortunately, 2U Alps keycaps of any kind are very hard to find. The Planck has plate cutouts for Cherry stabs, and finding a 2U with an Alps stem but Cherry stabs is kinda a unicorn. I have some from Alpine Winter, but the profile and colourway are not idea.
I'd rather just use an MX cap for the space. I could even get a convex one, and in OEM profile.
Is this slider/housing a good fit to make this happen? I'm using SKCM oranges atm, but could conceivably build another with SKCM creams.
If this is a good idea, does anyone have a few I they'd be willing to part with (maybe 4 or 5 for future spacebars). I'm generally not doing bad with Alps caps—lots of NeXT and SGI sets which are good quality.
TIA.
Any update on v2 ?
Any update on v2 ?
Look at the post directly above yours.
Very interested in V2 if that ever happens. Or in purchasing v1 if anyone is offloading theirs.
Very interested in V2 if that ever happens. Or in purchasing v1 if anyone is offloading theirs.