Joining the Kinesis club...

[CyberDave]

Had a chance to try a coworker's Kinesis keyboard yesterday. Didn't take me long to decide I wanted one of my own, and I immediately bought one I saw on eBay (it's the older PS2/ADB model). Still waiting for a shipment notification/tracking number, though.

I do have a question for those of you who have one already...I hear Kinesis sells all kinds of upgrades for these things. I'm going to shoot them an email once I get the board and have the serial number, but in the meantime...do you know what sorts of upgrades are available? Specifically, would I be able to order a native USB controller for it if I wanted to (I plan to just use an adapter for starters, but native USB might be nice to have later on).

[Wildcard]

I have seen a post before of someone updating the Kinesis to cherry mx switches.

I've always wanted to try a Kinesis, but it seems like a big purchase to just "try out".

I wish some of my co-workers shared my affinity for input devices. Sigh...

[Input Nirvana]

Kinesis Contoured boards all come with Cherry MX switches, brown or red.

Link the eBay auction and I'll tell you what I can about that model. USB options...we'll talk about after the exact model is confirmed.

Welcome to the family!

[Encryptor]

I have seen a post before of someone updating the Kinesis to cherry mx switches.

I've always wanted to try a Kinesis, but it seems like a big purchase to just "try out".

I wish some of my co-workers shared my affinity for input devices. Sigh...

Me too - I'm afraid I'll get one and then realize that I've been typing incorrectly my whole life by reaching for characters with the wrong hand.

[CyberDave]

Me too - I'm afraid I'll get one and then realize that I've been typing incorrectly my whole life by reaching for characters with the wrong hand.

I expect to find out I've been doing some things wrong all this time myself. But, talking to the guy whose board I demo'd, he told me about how he forced himself to learn Dvorak when he first got a Kinesis, and after some practice he goes back and forth between Qwerty on flat keyboards and Dvorak on his Kinesis without much issue. So, I think I might give Dvorak a try and see how that goes.

[Wildcard]

Kinesis Contoured boards all come with Cherry MX switches, brown or red.

Nevermind, I must have seen someone change out the switches in a used one then. I need to find that post...

[CyberDave]

Kinesis Contoured boards all come with Cherry MX switches, brown or red.

Link the eBay auction and I'll tell you what I can about that model. USB options...we'll talk about after the exact model is confirmed.

Welcome to the family!

I'm almost afraid to link it, because I think I got a good deal on one and I'm afraid you're going to tell me I didn't

But here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170764616687

Appreciate the advice

[Wildcard]

Found it http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7486

[CyberDave]

Hey, I just realized Kinesis is based in Bothell, WA...not too far up the road from me. Neat.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm almost afraid to link it, because I think I got a good deal on one and I'm afraid you're going to tell me I didn't

But here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170764616687

Appreciate the advice

It doesn't really matter how good/bad of a deal you may have gotten, it's relative. Did you get what you want? At a price that is acceptable? In the condition you expect? I promise you, someone paid less for better, and someone else paid more for less. You are guaranteed to be in the middle somewhere

Found it http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7486

Go to Kinesis's website, they make and sell various products, some are not made by them, so the super-awesome Contoured line is not the only "Kinesis" item. http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/

[Input Nirvana]

Model 130 PM Professional MPC.....

Ok, you don't have 'sticky keys' that started the model after this one. You do have 2 memory chips which allows the maximum amount of memory for macros. It is Mac/PC switchable. Are you Mac or PC?

I have the same unit for sale for about the same amount, actually with shipping would be about $20 more. I'll also offer it without 1 of the memory chips (since most people have no use for it) at a $30 discount. So I guess you got a better deal than buying mine. Feel good now?

As for the USB, you can get a Y-mouse by Pi Engineering. It holds some key programming. I have several of these, but they are very pricey. But a straight up USB adapter should be fine, no?

Anything else?

EDIT---The only Kinesis changes would be to get red switches instead of the browns it comes with, that will cost about $100. You can put O-rings on the key caps (NICE!) that's about $5-$20 depending on which ones. You can get qwerty/dvorak dual legend key caps for about $45 or so.

You can get rid of the yellow by taking the keyboard apart and putting the plastic in oxy-clean in the sun for a few hours. There is a monster thread here where a few of us did that.

You can take it to the beach and have all the girls oooh and aaaah over it

[CyberDave]

It doesn't really matter how good/bad of a deal you may have gotten, it's relative. Did you get what you want? At a price that is acceptable? In the condition you expect? I promise you, someone paid less for better, and someone else paid more for less. You are guaranteed to be in the middle somewhere

I was only half-serious about that part

If anything, I was afraid I might have jumped the gun a little too quickly on that keyboard and ended up with something inferior because I hadn't done enough research about the various models of these keyboards (but I have that reaction all the time anyway).

I've certainly been on the "paid less for better" side of the equation plenty of times myself (the proceeds from some of my recent deals are going towards this keyboard).

[Input Nirvana]

No doubt, jumping the gun without the research can be detrimental, of course sometimes you need to follow your gut and just move on something though. Timing, especially on a relatively rare item. It's fun to be on the buy-low, sell-high side and get some rewards...I've done it, but after some real-time analysis have figured out it almost always takes more time (overall) than the dollar gains justify, not to mention risk. But that depends on the situations as well. If you have no other opportunity to earn scratch, then have at it

I hope you like the board, you'll need a couple weeks for acclimation. If you don't, there are usually people here looking to buy. Check my sig for some extreme project items I've been doing on a couple Kinesis units.

[CyberDave]

Model 130 PM Professional MPC.....

Ok, you don't have 'sticky keys' that started the model after this one. You do have 2 memory chips which allows the maximum amount of memory for macros. It is Mac/PC switchable. Are you Mac or PC?

I have the same unit for sale for about the same amount, actually with shipping would be about $20 more. I'll also offer it without 1 of the memory chips (since most people have no use for it) at a $30 discount. So I guess you got a better deal than buying mine. Feel good now?

As for the USB, you can get a Y-mouse by Pi Engineering. It holds some key programming. I have several of these, but they are very pricey. But a straight up USB adapter should be fine, no?

Anything else?

EDIT---The only Kinesis changes would be to get red switches instead of the browns it comes with, that will cost about $100. You can put O-rings on the key caps (NICE!) that's about $5-$20 depending on which ones. You can get qwerty/dvorak dual legend key caps for about $45 or so.

You can get rid of the yellow by taking the keyboard apart and putting the plastic in oxy-clean in the sun for a few hours. There is a monster thread here where a few of us did that.

You can take it to the beach and have all the girls oooh and aaaah over it

Thanks very much for the detailed info.

I'm mostly a Mac guy, but I do work on PCs some of the time. No more legacy Macs at the moment...I have adapters for both PS/2 and ADB to USB, anyway, so it's not a big deal.

That Y-mouse looks neat, but also overkill, at least for now.

I think I'll be OK with the brown switches, but to be honest the only Cherry switches I've really typed on are the blues (I did press the keys on a Kinesis with browns for a few minutes, and they seemed nice, but I have no idea how they compare to the reds). Maybe one day I'll get a chance to type on some reds and decide I want them, but for now I think the browns will do. Still, it's nice to know that they offer those as replacements.

I'm familiar with the retr0bright process (I've restored a couple of Apple Extended Keyboards, and I've got a pile of double-shot Wyse keycaps to restore over the next couple weeks), so no issues there (other than general lack of sun in Seattle this time of year, but I have a UV lamp for this already).

The qwerty/dvorak keys...those are available from Kinesis, right (I won't have to scrounge eBay or the classifieds to find them)? I think those might be the only upgrade I need early on.

Now I'm even more excited for this thing to get here....I think it's going to be great as-is. I'm trying to resist the temptation to go poke the seller for a shipping status update (and give him tomorrow to get it out)

[CyberDave]

No doubt, jumping the gun without the research can be detrimental, of course sometimes you need to follow your gut and just move on something though. Timing, especially on a relatively rare item. It's fun to be on the buy-low, sell-high side and get some rewards...I've done it, but after some real-time analysis have figured out it almost always takes more time (overall) than the dollar gains justify, not to mention risk. But that depends on the situations as well. If you have no other opportunity to earn scratch, then have at it

I hope you like the board, you'll need a couple weeks for acclimation. If you don't, there are usually people here looking to buy. Check my sig for some extreme project items I've been doing on a couple Kinesis units.

After I bought the board, I spent a few hours reading through your split mod (instead of working)...pretty impressive. I probably won't ever go that far, but I might switch out the F-keys for real switches at some point. Maybe an AIKON USB controller upgrade at some point, too, just so I don't need to mess with an adapter (unless I can convince Kensis to sell me just the latest version of the main controller PCB).

[Lanx]

i did an ergo-white mod on my kinesis, i enjoy the increased tactility over browns. play around with other switches if you want, you can order single switches from mouser.com or harvest them from another cherry board, and if you think you really like cherry reds, you can always just order the red keywells from kinesis, i'm sure sordna or input-n have lots of links somewhere on how to do that. who knows maybe in the end you'll just buy a new kinesis usb cuz you like it so much.

[boli]

I've always wanted to try a Kinesis

Me too - I'm afraid I'll get one and then realize that I've been typing incorrectly my whole life by reaching for characters with the wrong hand

Dunno if they ship to Middle Earth but they do have a 60 day money back guarantee, so if you're in the US you can give it an extensive trial without too much cost (insured return shipping only). International shipping is way more expensive but I think the same rule applies.

Most likely though you'll love it and order a second one.

[Input Nirvana]

Dunno if they ship to Middle Earth.
Most likely though you'll love it and order a second one.

Boli....you are funny

Interesting thought...how many of us with a Kinesis, only have ONE Kinesis? Hmmm....nobody comes to mind at the moment....

[boli]

Well you sort of need one at work and one at home at least, no? I kept my first at work and brought it home over the weekend, but once I knew I liked it I ordered a second one.

[Input Nirvana]

I have adapters for both PS/2 and ADB to USB, anyway, so it's not a big deal.

The qwerty/dvorak keys...those are available from Kinesis, right (I won't have to scrounge eBay or the classifieds to find them)? I think those might be the only upgrade I need early on.

The ADB-USB adapters are crazy expensive I've noticed. I've never used one.

I have 2 sets of qwerty/dvorak key caps, they are white....maybe we'll talk about that later? . Yes Kinesis sells them. I'm going to guess you are a touch-typist, and if you're not, you soon will be with the Kinesis....so maybe you don't need to invest in the dual legend key caps at all. You could get BLANKS!

[CyberDave]

Boli....you are funny

Interesting thought...how many of us with a Kinesis, only have ONE Kinesis? Hmmm....nobody comes to mind at the moment....

One thing that sold me on the Kinesis was yesterday when I sent out a mass email at work asking if anyone had one I could demo for a few minutes. I got back several replies from people who were more than happy to do that. Several of them told me how they had spares (one guy even offered to loan me his spare for a week or two to try), and one more told me that if I got the keyboard and didn't like it, he might be interested in buying it as a spare himself. Plus they all told me how much the love theirs after they got used to it, how it really helped or saved their wrists, and haven't looked back. Either the Kinesis keyboards have a secret embedded mind control device, or they really are that great.

[Input Nirvana]

Well you sort of need one at work and one at home at least, no? I kept my first at work and brought it home over the weekend, but once I knew I liked it I ordered a second one.

Ahhh, that's probably one main reason everybody has more than one. It doesn't apply to me since I don't maintain an office at this time, so I wasn't thinking that way.

Personally, when I have to be on a flat board, I hate it, do as little as possible, and do a crappy job typing. Then again, I was ALWAYS a ****ty typist until I got a Kinesis. Always. I use my Kinesis boards exclusively and I use Colemak layout, so I have a few things against me when I'm somewhere else typing.

Either the Kinesis keyboards have a secret embedded mind control device, or they really are that great.

That would explain why a pretty damn normal guy like me gets so nutszoid over these keyboards.

Hey, did you like the art I include throughout in the Split Kinesis Mod article?

[boli]

Either the Kinesis keyboards have a secret embedded mind control device, or they really are that great.

That would explain why a pretty damn normal guy like me gets so nutsoid over these keyboards.

Can't resist posting Everyday Normal Guy

[Input Nirvana]

Either the Kinesis keyboards have a secret embedded mind control device, or they really are that great.

That would explain why a pretty damn normal guy like me gets so nutsoid over these keyboards.

Hey, did you like the art I include throughout in the Split Kinesis Mod article?

[boli]

Either the Kinesis keyboards have a secret embedded mind control device, or they really are that great.

When I opened mine up to replace the key wells I found this:

That would explain why a pretty damn normal guy like me gets so nutsoid over these keyboards.

Can't resist posting Everyday Normal Guy

[CyberDave]

The ADB-USB adapters are crazy expensive I've noticed. I've never used one.

I have 2 sets of qwerty/dvorak key caps, they are white....maybe we'll talk about that later? . Yes Kinesis sells them. I'm going to guess you are a touch-typist, and if you're not, you soon will be with the Kinesis....so maybe you don't need to invest in the dual legend key caps at all. You could get BLANKS!

GeekHack to the rescue! http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:14290

I modded one of those into an Apple Extended Keyboard II (with the Alps key switches) for my brother as a Christmas gift. A few days later he was posting on Facebook about how wonderful mechanical keyboards are and how he needs one for the office, and a spare at home, and he had no idea how he had managed to put up with his slim Apple keyboard for so long

We'll see how it goes with the Dvorak learning. I may or may not need them. I like to think of myself as a pretty good touch-typist, but last week I was using a Das Keyboard with blank caps, and struggled with hunting and pecking for entering in some passwords, and hitting the right keys in the number row...I did better after I swapped in some regular key caps. I wonder if I'll have that same type of issue with the Kinesis...I'm guessing probably not, since it's a whole different ballgame.

[CyberDave]

That would explain why a pretty damn normal guy like me gets so nutsoid over these keyboards.

Hey, did you like the art I include throughout in the Split Kinesis Mod article?

yes, the art was lovely.

[bbbbqq]

Hijacking this thread for a quick question:

Is there an easy way to re-map a few keys ? I know I can use mapkeyboard or something, but any way built into the board ? Namely, swapping space and backspace, and setting caps as ctrl

[CyberDave]

When I opened mine up to replace the key wells I found this:

Show Image

You know, I think if I ever open up my Kinesis, I'm going to put a sticker of Hypnotoad on the inside, as a little bonus for the next owner (if I ever upgrade) or for myself (when I open it up again two years later after forgetting that it's there).

[CyberDave]

Hijacking this thread for a quick question:

Is there an easy way to re-map a few keys ? I know I can use mapkeyboard or something, but any way built into the board ? Namely, swapping space and backspace, and setting caps as ctrl

Maybe http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/tech_support/remapping.htm ?

[boli]

You know, I think if I ever open up my Kinesis, I'm going to put a sticker of Hypnotoad on the inside, as a little bonus for the next owner (if I ever upgrade) or for myself (when I open it up again two years later after forgetting that it's there).

We'll see how it goes with the Dvorak learning.

Have you considered Colemak? Apologies if you have, I'll shut up now. Otherwise you might want to check out Colemak or Dvorak.

Is there an easy way to re-map a few keys ? I know I can use mapkeyboard or something, but any way built into the board ? Namely, swapping space and backspace, and setting caps as ctrl

Of course, that's one of the strengths of the Kinesis! Link incoming in a sec. Edit: Nevermind CyberDave got it.

[Input Nirvana]

Can't resist posting Everyday Normal Guy

"You want some of this, biatch?"  

Harsh Boli, harsh.

[CyberDave]

Have you considered Colemak? Apologies if you have, I'll shut up now. Otherwise you might want to check out Colemak or Dvorak.

Actually, no I hadn't. I've seen it mentioned around here a lot, but I never actually looked to see what it was all about. Thanks to that link, I just did, and now I'm intrigued by the idea. I think I might have to move some keycaps around and try it out this weekend.

[boli]

"You want some of this, biatch?"  

Harsh Boli, harsh.

What? It's a fun song, it just came to mind because of the wording you chose. I didn't mean to imply anything.

Actually, no I hadn't. I've seen it mentioned around here a lot, but I never actually looked to see what it was all about. Thanks to that link, I just did, and now I'm intrigued by the idea. I think I might have to move some keycaps around and try it out this weekend.

Have fun. I guess a weekend is enough to notice how much you can write with just the 10 keys on the home row, but since you probably can't learn the layout that quickly it might be easier to convert text to QWERTY and type the converted text. At this time you will not be familiar with those finger movements at all, that's what you'll get once you built up muscle memory.

Here's an example text:

Code: [Select]

Hl fhksk, h;w'd lf t;ljt? (Hi there, how's it going?)

[Architect]

Thanks very much for the detailed info.

I'm mostly a Mac guy, but I do work on PCs some of the time. No more legacy Macs at the moment...I have adapters for both PS/2 and ADB to USB, anyway, so it's not a big deal.

Keep an eye out for quirky behavior with the Kinesis and the Mac. I've used a Kinesis on PC and UNIX for decades with no problem, but they're quirky on modern macs. A lot of the problem is probably Apple, they were always Firewire and never really got USB right I think. There was a huge USB bug (that caused me endless pain) that finally got fixed in Lion. At any rate the Kinesis still seems to have little problems with the mac, requiring frequent re-plugs. Kinesis blames it on Apple, your milage may vary.

[Icarium]

Okay just unpacked mine can't type for **** so far. Find myself looking at the keys like years ago. What is really weird is that my muscle memory seems to want to type dvorak on this even though I barely know it and have not used it in over a week. How did you guys position the wrist rests?

The last two sentences are unrelated btw.

[boli]

There was a huge USB bug (that caused me endless pain) that finally got fixed in Lion. At any rate the Kinesis still seems to have little problems with the mac, requiring frequent re-plugs.

Hmm, I don't have any problems on my Macs, but I'm using Lion. I don't remember having any problems before either.

Find myself looking at the keys like years ago. [snip] How did you guys position the wrist rests?

Bottom left and right corner (see pic here), is there any other way?

As for loooking at the keys, attaching a pic of the layout (see this post) to your display works well in my experience.

[Architect]

Hmm, I don't have any problems on my Macs, but I'm using Lion. I don't remember having any problems before either.

I like big systems with lots of peripherals hanging off it. One is a Mac Pro, three Cinema Displays (2x24, 1x27) with XKeys, Keyboards, graphics tablets ... if you stick with the mainstream (a laptop with Apple keyboard/mouse) they work great. Stray from the fold a 'little' ...

[Icarium]

BTW what did you guys remap alt+tab for windowsswitching to? I find it entirely unusable in the standard configuration.

[erw]

Dunno if they ship to Middle Earth

:-D

BTW what did you guys remap alt+tab for windowsswitching to? I find it entirely unusable in the standard configuration.

I didn't remap it, but I moved Alt to the left. My four modifiers from left to right are Alt, AltGr, Super, Ctrl, and then I turned my Caps Lock into a Ctrl as well.

[fossala]

I didn't remap it either. The only thing I did was remap capslock to mod4 (windows).

[boli]

I like big systems with lots of peripherals hanging off it. One is a Mac Pro, three Cinema Displays (2x24, 1x27) with XKeys, Keyboards, graphics tablets ... if you stick with the mainstream (a laptop with Apple keyboard/mouse) they work great. Stray from the fold a 'little' ...

Hmm, the only input devices I use are the Kinesis and a mouse (preferably with 7+ functions) or two; then there are a 27" (landscape) and 24" (portrait) display, the other stuff is storage (3x eSATA, 1x FW800). Hopefully they'll release a Mac Pro with Thunderbolt soon so I can get rid of them...

BTW what did you guys remap alt+tab for windowsswitching to? I find it entirely unusable in the standard configuration.

You'll find my layout in every other post or so (see above), as you see I haven't changed the Alt/Option position (did change a lot else though). I guess your thumbs aren't used to doing so much just yet, that's part of the learning curve. I still don't really like the centermost bottom keys on the thumb clusters, the rest are fine.

[Lanx]

same apple bs lol, can't implement a microsoft invention (usb).

[fossala]

same apple bs lol, can't implement a microsoft invention (usb).

group of seven companies began development on USB in 1994: Compaq, DEC, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC and Nortel.

Not really a microsoft invention.

[boli]

same apple bs lol, can't implement a microsoft invention (usb).

That's funny, because in 1998 Apple's iMacs were some of the first computers to solely use USB for peripherals, the previously used ADB was no longer available (much to the dismay of owners of ADB devices, such as the nice clicky Apple Extended keyboard)

Before going to uni to study computer science I worked in an shop that sold Apple computers, from 1998 to 1999, which is why I remember.

[Input Nirvana]

IIn the last 5 years or so I hang/have hung the usual alternating 3-6 things with the USB ports on Mac and the Kinesis and never had an issue that I was aware of because of it. A few funky daisy chains too. It is an interesting thought of what that may have been.

Apple was very quick to dump their ADB for USB.

Dang Boli, I have Joe's song in my head...I particularly like his little gangsta buddy in the wife-beater, he is trying just way too hard. lol

It definitely takes a few days to get used to the Kinesis, then a couple weeks to smooth into typing love letters to your 3 girlfriends.

[fossala]

It definitely takes a few days to get used to the Kinesis, then a couple weeks to smooth into typing love letters to your 3 girlfriends.

I got used to the board within hours. Had full speed back within 2 days.

[boli]

Basic typing (letter keys) is a matter of hours. For me it was the other stuff that took some time, namely the thumb clusters. And now I can't do without.

@IN:

[Input Nirvana]

I'm not a professional typist, I'm a professional gigalo. I just type to make my appointments with the ladies

[sordna]

I have seen a post before of someone updating the Kinesis to cherry mx switches.

I've always wanted to try a Kinesis, but it seems like a big purchase to just "try out".

I wish some of my co-workers shared my affinity for input devices. Sigh...

If you want to try a Kinesis, sign up in my "Try & Forward" thread, click my sig for details.