Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[lucidinertia]

• Anything less than 96% is too small and not very useful
• Multi-device bluetooth switching is required
• Alphas should click.  Numerals should click louder.  Space bar should wake your spouse.  Caps lock, lord forbid, should wake your neighbors

[jamster]

• Anything less than 96% is too small and not very useful
• Multi-device bluetooth switching is required
• Alphas should click.  Numerals should click louder.  Space bar should wake your spouse.  Caps lock, lord forbid, should wake your neighbors

Finally, a post of truly unpopular keyboard opinions 

[jony_m]

• Anything less than 96% is too small and not very useful
• Multi-device bluetooth switching is required
• Alphas should click.  Numerals should click louder.  Space bar should wake your spouse.  Caps lock, lord forbid, should wake your neighbors

Your crimes to humanity have gone unpunished far too long. Who the hell uses caps lock. Stepped Control all the way.

[bkrownd]

"caps lock" is merely a cruel torture device

[Faceman76]

"caps lock" is merely a cruel torture device

It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[TheHawkNY]

The computer keyboard is like the US Government - it worked fine when it was introduced, and now it is woefully ineffective because it hasn't recognized that a lot of things have changed.

If 30 years ago, they had replaced the F1-F12 buttons with three big buttons for "Copy", "Paste", and "Switch" (Alt+Tab), we would have flying cars by now.  (JK the benefits of all of that productivity would have gone to the rich and Bezos would be a trillionaire, but it's nice to imagine a world where both keyboards and the US Government had evolved.)

Setting up personalized keyboard shortcuts and macros somehow has not become an intuitive, easy to use, integrated part of the OS that almost everyone does.  You don't have a set of preconfigured keyboard profiles stored in the cloud that you can use on any computer just by logging in. 

The whole numpad area should be replaced with a column of 4u LED buttons whose text functionality can be set manually by users and developers.  We still don't have a set of buttons that just are shortcuts to the most commonly used functionalities of whatever application you're using.  We could have AI do this!  It wouldn't even be that hard!  Most of my code gets written by Github Copilot now, all I do is hit tab, but god forbid I accidentally open VIM, I have to remember the sequence of characters required to close it?  Remote controls for smart tv's now have voice recognition, and yet the functionality of keyboards hasn't improved at all.

[bkrownd]

It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 

  Legal requirements or something?  Sounds brutal. 

  Which is funny for me to say because though I never type in all caps...I actually prefer to write in all capitals.   

[iri]

How can you prefer to write in all caps? It's so woefully inefficient.

[jamster]

Speaking from experience, when your cursive looks like garbage, then writing in caps looks better. It is, however, very slow.

[fohat.digs]

when your cursive looks like garbage

Badly written cursive is considerably harder to read than badly written capitals.

[bkrownd]

How can you prefer to write in all caps? It's so woefully inefficient.

Inefficient how so?  Feels efficient and effective to me.  The characters are easier to form and more distinct, particularly when using random pencils or cheap ball point pens, and I also greatly prefer the "style" my capitals have.  My father used to also write in caps a lot, so I'm sure I subliminally got it from seeing his writing.   

[ddot]

It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 

  Legal requirements or something?  Sounds brutal. 

The notes on architectural and engineering drawings are still typically done in all caps.  I agree that the caps lock key doesn't need to take up such a prominent place on the keyboard and would be perfectly fine on a layer, but it still has uses for some people.

[hussar_name]

It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 

  Legal requirements or something?  Sounds brutal. 

The notes on architectural and engineering drawings are still typically done in all caps.  I agree that the caps lock key doesn't need to take up such a prominent place on the keyboard and would be perfectly fine on a layer, but it still has uses for some people.

There are autocad shortcuts to make the text uppercase all at once. Furthermore I rarely write in caps... and I do a lot of drawings.

[ddot]

There are autocad shortcuts to make the text uppercase all at once. Furthermore I rarely write in caps... and I do a lot of drawings.

Correct, those commands do exist and I use them from time to time.  Actually if I'm writing a larger block of text, I'm more likely to do it in a text editor, change it to uppercase there and copy it over.  But if I'm just bouncing around, touching a few things up and adding bits here and there, just switching on caps lock is the easiest.

As for why it's done this way, who knows.  Convention?  Archaic tradition that just hasn't changed?  It was the way I was taught when I started and the way our company does them.  Looking at other drawings that I see from other consultants, I'd say the vast majority of them use all caps, at least for short notes.  Maybe less so for page style specifications.

[funkmon]

The computer keyboard is like the US Government - it worked fine when it was introduced, and now it is woefully ineffective because it hasn't recognized that a lot of things have changed.

If 30 years ago, they had replaced the F1-F12 buttons with three big buttons for "Copy", "Paste", and "Switch" (Alt+Tab), we would have flying cars by now.  (JK the benefits of all of that productivity would have gone to the rich and Bezos would be a trillionaire, but it's nice to imagine a world where both keyboards and the US Government had evolved.)

Setting up personalized keyboard shortcuts and macros somehow has not become an intuitive, easy to use, integrated part of the OS that almost everyone does.  You don't have a set of preconfigured keyboard profiles stored in the cloud that you can use on any computer just by logging in. 

The whole numpad area should be replaced with a column of 4u LED buttons whose text functionality can be set manually by users and developers.  We still don't have a set of buttons that just are shortcuts to the most commonly used functionalities of whatever application you're using.  We could have AI do this!  It wouldn't even be that hard!  Most of my code gets written by Github Copilot now, all I do is hit tab, but god forbid I accidentally open VIM, I have to remember the sequence of characters required to close it?  Remote controls for smart tv's now have voice recognition, and yet the functionality of keyboards hasn't improved at all.

I get what you're saying, I really do, but I think that this isn't that efficient for most of us who type on the regular. Most of us are dependent on keys being exactly where we think they are, as we don't look at the keyboard when we're typing. Many hunt-and-peckists may find the changing macros based on use-case more efficient, but not the rest of us since we're not looking. I also like the number pad, and I have a different solution to how to save space with the numbers, which I can go into in another reply.

I think your Function key thing has merit, but the nature of legacy applications, and indeed new ones whose programmers seek efficient schemes to use the keyboard, like something as trivial as the game Out Of The Park Baseball, would need to have stopped programming this in. I use some software that requires function key usage up to F24 actually at work, and I would be content with battlecruisers being used there and smaller keyboards for home usage. Indeed, I have only F5 and F8 currently on my keyboard, and it works great. I think this is an ideal situation.

[NoteMakoti]

Zeal Clickiez really exposed how redundant the MX switch market has gotten lately. We could have just sold top/bottom housings, springs, and stems separately instead of constantly rebranding the same combinations with different names.

[squizzler]

Kailh is the real MVP of the mechanical keyboard community, I don’t think it’s fair to say they “innovated a bit”. 
While the crowd mentality seems to be stuck on revolving around countless recolors, dozens of HP style switch every month, hype and useless aesthetics, Kailh is actually trying to push this community forward, and they do whatever they can on the limited MX form factor.
Hot swap sockets [and v2] (!!), click bar, BOX design, round BOX design, their collabs with NK_ (Creams, BB, Muted Jades), and much more. 

Maybe if we’re not going to ditch the MX form factor, the next step is to go up in switch height?…

BTW, I agree that the MX switch family tree isn’t that different from each other when you look at the 100s of versions of the HP style switch, or countless versions of the linear switches, but you can’t honestly say you don’t feel a difference between a Cherry MX Brown and Boba U4T for example, or BOX Jade vs Cherry MX Blue.
Maybe in comparison to something entirely different such as buckling springs or topre the variations in the MX world seems minuscule, I wouldn’t know I haven’t used anything other than MX type switches, but you can definitely feel a difference when using different weights and tactile mechanisms.

Agree somewhat, whilst am wary giving my money to Chinese products in protest of that country's government policies (and proudly switched - excuse the pun - back to Cherry) they have - to give them their due - progressed beyond clones. I wonder if the firm could ditch the MX-mount in favour of their hollow stem mount used on the KO switch. As well as the technical benefits for backlighting owning their mount offers an opportunity to own the whole design.

It is also regrettable that the Omron B3K design (used as Romer-G in Logitech) didn't get to the point where it supported an aftermarket for caps either, let alone spawned clones. But maybe these new designs did not have the ambition to dislodge MX inspired designs.

Thus my controversial opinion is for a new, and open, switch standard that bins the mounting plate which places a limit on the size of switch modules. These should be replaced with the metal clip contraptions inspired by those used by  Honeywell / Micro-Switch SW series. Switch units are thus liberated to be almost a full key unit (19mm) to a side as per Honeywell and IBM beam springs - although I would specify these must be shorter than the legacy designs for ergonomic reasons. The reduced stack height above the circuit board could be countered by allowing parts of the switch to protrude through as per the Cherry Low Profile switch. The new switch design would of course have a hollow stem for stable cap mounting incorporating a light well to centrally illuminate the legends.

I don't happen to think a spring-clip system of retaining the switches should even be any more expensive than a mounting plate; it's surely no different from the countless other bits of bent metal that make up switches amongst other things.

[nickyteddy]

• Anything less than 96% is too small and not very useful

I totally agree. There aren't enough keys on anything below 1800 to be useful. On that note, I think TKL is BY FAR the worst size a keyboard can be. Not small enough for small keeb enthusiasts and not big enough to be useful. Just the wrong size for everyone.

[Username]

This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.

[HungerMechanic]

Likewise, people have big conversations about the cost of GMK keycaps. It's astonishing it's even a subject, since there are rubber-dome keyboards out there with basically rubber keycaps. Or super-cheap thin mass-produced dye-sub.

We're all talking about the intricacies of sort of 3D printing shaped-plastic [double-shot keycaps], lots of expense and shipping and human labour involved - this shouldn't even exist.

Yes, we all want customized keycaps [and one size doesn't fit all], but this is like a 1960s technology we're still struggling with, when the most efficient manufacturing methods have probably moved on from double-shot plastic.

[hussar_name]

Likewise, people have big conversations about the cost of GMK keycaps. It's astonishing it's even a subject, since there are rubber-dome keyboards out there with basically rubber keycaps. Or super-cheap thin mass-produced dye-sub.

We're all talking about the intricacies of sort of 3D printing shaped-plastic [double-shot keycaps], lots of expense and shipping and human labour involved - this shouldn't even exist.

Yes, we all want customized keycaps [and one size doesn't fit all], but this is like a 1960s technology we're still struggling with, when the most efficient manufacturing methods have probably moved on from double-shot plastic.

Moved on. Ducking retrogrades that think that evolution is focused on the needs of the people. Evolution of technology is based on what the industry needs. Consumers try to modify if voting with their money

[HungerMechanic]

You are absolutely right, of course. All this customization is because of demands at the user-end, the cost-efficiency of modern keyboards is because industry has moved on.

We're using some antiquated methods for custom keyboard construction, because that's what's available to people who are modifying their keyboards.

[funkmon]

This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.

Totally legit man. A lot of people in real life are like that. Have you tried blues?

[butre]

southpaw boards are better for everyone, regardless of handedness.

for people who build spreadsheets it allows use of the mouse or cursor keys in the right hand and numpad in the left.  for people who spend most of their time typing it allows you to more easily center your alpha cluster in front of your monitor.  for gamers it shrinks the distance between your hands.  ironically, lefties are the only group of people where the benefits become a little shaky

[Frugivore]

I think this might ruffle some feathers. Normal (not expanded) 75% is the only good layout. Here's why, if you don't need a Numpad then TKL is useless, It is just a bigger 75%. Function keys are very useful especially for power users and whatnot. And arrow keys are not super imported until you have a use for them then you want to die if you don't have them. Those are the main reasons there are some smaller ones too. like the physical size.

[Faceman76]

Not a fan of TKL either.  The look of a KB with just the number pad lobbed off is a lazy design.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[vutid]

205g0 on stabs wire is stupid

[hussar_name]

southpaw boards are better for everyone, regardless of handedness.

for people who build spreadsheets it allows use of the mouse or cursor keys in the right hand and numpad in the left.  for people who spend most of their time typing it allows you to more easily center your alpha cluster in front of your monitor.  for gamers it shrinks the distance between your hands.  ironically, lefties are the only group of people where the benefits become a little shaky

Reading / writing material is on the left (lefty here). Can't have a numpad there.

[sanakhanum]

Right, those orders really do exist and I use them every now and then. As a matter of fact in the event that I'm composing a bigger square of text, I'm bound to do it in a content tool, change it to capitalized there and duplicate it over. In any case, assuming that I'm simply bobbing near, finishing a couple of things up and adding pieces to a great extent, turning on covers lock is the most straightforward.

Tutuapp 9Apps Showbox

[Maledicted]

This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.

Totally legit man. A lot of people in real life are like that. Have you tried blues?

I think an argument could be made that, as a linear, MX red is too light for the average user. There have been some very nice rubber dome boards, and some very terrible rubber dome boards. Most of the modern ones are terrible, but I have been pleasantly surprised.

There was a random cheap Logitech board I briefly used in a computer lab recently that I would take over any MX switch I have tried.

I think that speaks more for my opinion of the MX design than it does rubber domes.

[treeleaf64]

"caps lock" is merely a cruel torture device

It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

SORRY I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, COULD YOU SPEAK UP A LITTLE BIT?

[Leopard223]

Plate mount stabs are superior to pcb mount stabs, and I never had a plate mount stab or wire pop out even with super tight keycaps.

Also, there's no reason for screw in plate mount stabs to not be invented already.

[Maledicted]

Plate mount stabs are superior to pcb mount stabs, and I never had a plate mount stab or wire pop out even with super tight keycaps.

Also, there's no reason for screw in plate mount stabs to not be invented already.

I don't even like anything other than Costar anyway.

[fohat.digs]

I just live with inferior stabilizers since there is little or nothing else to do.

Personally, I think that dummy switch heads (or, better, switches that could be brought to life if wanted) would be the way to go.

But it would take some work and tuning to get it right.

[sonmezroy]

I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

[SmokrJokr]

- majority of keyboard youtubers just regurgitate each other, offer little to no value to the community, their opinions are regurgitated amongst themselves and are all shills. the fact that some of them have made tutorials on, for example, how to lube switches, and still pay others to lube their switches is not worth respecting
- expensive keyboards does not equal custom keyboards, its just buying really good engineering
- cherry profile and keyboard angles need to be obsolete
- PBT over ABS all day
- someones heavy modded gk61 with aliexpress keycaps and twenty mods looks better to me than someones Mr Suit

[selsik]

I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

So you think they're practical or not? Double negative

1. majority of keyboard youtubers just regurgitate each other, offer little to no value to the community, their opinions are regurgitated amongst themselves and are all shills. the fact that some of them have made tutorials on, for example, how to lube switches, and still pay others to lube their switches is not worth respecting
2. expensive keyboards does not equal custom keyboards, its just buying really good engineering
3. cherry profile and keyboard angles need to be obsolete
4. PBT over ABS all day
5. someones heavy modded gk61 with aliexpress keycaps and twenty mods looks better to me than someones Mr Suit

Agreed on point 1, especially true for keyboard memetubers that focus on clickbait rather than thoughtful reviews. Don't wanna say names, you probably already know who.

Point 2 is self contradicting. A DIY kit, cheap or expensive is as custom as it gets because it includes no stabs, switches, or keycaps; and you get to choose plate material and decide if you install foam or not. For this reason no 2 DIY kits will sound or feel the same. How does this NOT equal a custom keyboard in your eyes?

Point 3 and 5 totally follow the purpose of this thread

Point 4 does not follow the purpose of this thread.

[SmokrJokr]

I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

So you think they're practical or not? Double negative

1. majority of keyboard youtubers just regurgitate each other, offer little to no value to the community, their opinions are regurgitated amongst themselves and are all shills. the fact that some of them have made tutorials on, for example, how to lube switches, and still pay others to lube their switches is not worth respecting
2. expensive keyboards does not equal custom keyboards, its just buying really good engineering
3. cherry profile and keyboard angles need to be obsolete
4. PBT over ABS all day
5. someones heavy modded gk61 with aliexpress keycaps and twenty mods looks better to me than someones Mr Suit

Agreed on point 1, especially true for keyboard memetubers that focus on clickbait rather than thoughtful reviews. Don't wanna say names, you probably already know who.

Point 2 is self contradicting. A DIY kit, cheap or expensive is as custom as it gets because it includes no stabs, switches, or keycaps; and you get to choose plate material and decide if you install foam or not. For this reason no 2 DIY kits will sound or feel the same. How does this NOT equal a custom keyboard in your eyes?

Point 3 and 5 totally follow the purpose of this thread

Point 4 does not follow the purpose of this thread.

Youre right, technically those kits are considered DIY but I cant consider it a custom because the build is almost guaranteed to be in the middle to top tier, provided the person doesnt just end up putting Jades in their board, its guaranteed to sound good. Maybe because ive spent hours fine tuning a board to my liking that I prefer the time someone went through to mod the hell out of their keyboard, as opposed to buying a kit with mods (read as foams) included. Not sure if Im making sense right now.

[Maledicted]

provided the person doesnt just end up putting Jades in their board, its guaranteed to sound good.

Those are fighting words.

[Tastenplatte]

I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

I just like 65% much more, arrow keys are a gamechanger for me.

[Maledicted]

I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

I just like 65% much more, arrow keys are a gamechanger for me.

Yup. I think the ideal form factor/layout is the 68 key boards like the Miya Pro. Everything you need, nothing you don't, and universal cap compatibility. I have a DZ60 I ordered years ago now that I haven't even assembled because I want dedicated arrow keys and haven't found just the right combination of random caps for it. 65-75% is definitely the sweet spot.

[Leopard223]

I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

I just like 65% much more, arrow keys are a gamechanger for me.

With QMK 60% is very usable for people who dependent on arrow keys, the right modifiers become arrows on tap with original function on hold

[ander]

Yup. I think the ideal form factor/layout is the 68 key boards like the Miya Pro. Everything you need, nothing you don't...

(For example)

Okay, so no number pad—but no function keys? How do you control your sound volume or display brightness? And how do you repeat searches (F3)? Do you use a third-party brightness-control utility instead, whose shortcut keys you can choose? And set up a key-combination for Find Next?

I love f-keys. They give you a whole extra row of keys to use with custom shortcuts (which I use for scripts I've coded, extended characters like dashes, "bullets", etc.).

I get the TKL thing—your mouse is closer, okay. But what's so objectionable about f-keys? They take up no horizontal space, and what do you gain by having 1" more space between your keyboard and display?

[c.a.t.]

I agree with you, a lot of youtube video don't consider people needs and budget when making videos... Some (not all) try to impress with really expensive spectacular built, but it dos not serve the community.. That's why I start my channel, it is not spectacular, and I don't have 3 500 000 of views by videos and 28 000 subscribers, but I make video thinking of the needs I have when I'm looking to buy switches, plate, keycaps... That really can help for the community (I think...).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxsWMZAyUwT67nikED3sL_g

Feel free to give me feedbacks! Thanks!

Personnaly, I can't stand PBT keycaps (ecxcept for IBM Model M - F), ABS doubleshot for the win ! haha

[Leopard223]

I agree with you, a lot of youtube video don't consider people needs and budget when making videos... Some (not all) try to impress with really expensive spectacular built, but it dos not serve the community.. That's why I start my channel, it is not spectacular, and I don't have 3 500 000 of views by videos and 28 000 subscribers, but I make video thinking of the needs I have when I'm looking to buy switches, plate, keycaps... That really can help for the community (I think...).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxsWMZAyUwT67nikED3sL_g

Feel free to give me feedbacks! Thanks!

Personnaly, I can't stand PBT keycaps (ecxcept for IBM Model M - F), ABS doubleshot for the win ! haha

If I may, you might want to consider using a more neutral sounding keyboard, the Tofu along with the brass plate gives a very metallic sound signature that takes over the sound of the switches.

I'm familiar with your channel and watched a bit of the sound tests, I own quite a bit of the switches you featured and while the sound difference is very noticable in my set ups, with your Tofu set up keyboard the sound difference is very small, almost sounds the same.
Also the spacebar rattles which takes away a lot from the sound record.

[c.a.t.]

Thank you for your feedback, it is really appreciated!! The reason I used this case/plate is because it is a very mainstream built, so people could hear what switches sound in it! But your right, it certainly not the best board to ear switches… You have a suggestion of case/ plate?
I will change my mic soon, it will help too! For the space bar, omg your are right, it is horrific lol.. but by the time I realized it, I was 8 switches sound tests too far, so I didn’t want to fixe it because I want the comparison possible between each, that was more important for me then the actual sounding of the board.., But it is fixed now, for the next videos!

Thanks again!

[Maledicted]

Yup. I think the ideal form factor/layout is the 68 key boards like the Miya Pro. Everything you need, nothing you don't...

Show Image

(For example)

Okay, so no number pad—but no function keys? How do you control your sound volume or display brightness? And how do you repeat searches (F3)? Do you use a third-party brightness-control utility instead, whose shortcut keys you can choose? And set up a key-combination for Find Next?

I love f-keys. They give you a whole extra row of keys to use with custom shortcuts (which I use for scripts I've coded, extended characters like dashes, "bullets", etc.).

I get the TKL thing—your mouse is closer, okay. But what's so objectionable about f-keys? They take up no horizontal space, and what do you gain by having 1" more space between your keyboard and display?

I usually only use a laptop at work, and only because they finally recycled the old desktops (which I prefer). I would have to map volume controls to the F keys manually otherwise (I don't have many boards that run fancy firmwares to begin with). My volume is usually muted at work either way. If I use a laptop at home, I just use it the way it is most times. I never really change my screen brightness.

I don't search for specific words often. Makes sense for programmers/coders. I haven't done any of that in years.

I don't really even care about the mouse being closer. I use a fullsize keyboard with my desktop at home, since I have a sliding keyboard tray for it. That's my first (known) mechanical, my trusty old Corsair K70. I use the volume slider on that board for volume. Ironically, I use a TG3 "cop keyboard" at home more than anything with my HTPC (Dell SFF I picked up for almost nothing at a recycler). That has f keys and I never use them. Even with that, I rarely change the volume anyway so don't use any hotkeys for it.

The F keys have more purpose for me for making selections in a preboot environment than anything else. Even that I use so infrequently with a mechanical keyboard, they could easily be handled with layering.

Those 68 key boards give me portability and just a tiny bit more work space for spreading out the 2-3+ random laptop computers I might have splayed out on the desk at a given time at work. Ironically, I have never even used one yet. I have one of those cheap Magicforce boards ripped apart to try to handwire SMK switches into though. Then I could carry it around with me easily at work.

[VaporKeebs]

All 60%+ keebs should have a hotswap option.

[AeternusCo]

If you're using a 40%/ergo/ortho/alice layout with dedicated arrows on base layer, you're missing the point.

[CaesarAZealad]

Unpopular opinions? Let me see...
- Clickies are the worst type of switch.
- Cheap Tai Hao Caps are better value than most GMK sets
- Getting into customs is way too difficult for most people, and getting into vintage keyboards is almost indecipherable.
- Garish colors have no place on a keyboard, nor does RGB