Carbon fiber keyboard base - Updated 9/4/15

[heedpantsnow]

The second try turned out much better than the first. The fabric went down in the grooves much better, and the threaded inserts bonded well.


I trimmed the Kevlar with my medical shears, and then I used expanding foam (Great Stuff, from the hardware store) to fill in the grooves. I'll give it a few hours to cure, then trim it down and put on the first layer of carbon.



Thanks for following!

[TBone]

This is so cool 

I'd pay good money for a carbon fiber (even just finish) case. Either in 60% or TKL.

I think they can look really cool, plus are really solid yet light.

[heedpantsnow]

Thanks!

BTW I've seen some really good looking results from the carbon fiber look vinyl. It's not my cup of tea, but if you just want the finish I bet you could spend an evening with the vinyl and a razor knife and come away with a pretty cool case.

[Matt3o]

very nice project. I wanted to do something like that since forever. you build log will be extremely useful.

[Badwrench]

Raising my hand now as a "Beta" tester for one of these.  Just sayin' 

[TBone]

Oh if you were selling I'd buy it to beta test it for sure 

[heedpantsnow]

Ok sorry for lack of updates.

I trimmed the foam and finally laid the first layer of carbon fiber. It's a pretty thick 6 inch wide strip (called "tape", though there's no adhesive). 12k plain weave.



I slit the corners so they would lay down better, and I'm reasonably happy with the results.



I will have to do quite a bit of dremel work on the edges and corners where the material bunched up a bit.



And you can also see some dips in the top where the vacuum compressed the foam too much. I'll have to fill those with some sanding and epoxy before the next and final layer. Live and learn.

The last layer will be this really nice twill weave.  It will be thinner but should follow the corners and edges well.



Thanks for following!

[cribbit]

Hot damn!

What would you say is cost of materials here?

How much lighter is this going to be than standard cases? How strong/fragile is it?

Amazing work! If you get the process down, you should consider starting a group buy, or at least making a nice detailed guide.

[heedpantsnow]

Bill of materials for the first one is probably around $200. It includes a lot of one-off costs like mold-making materials, etc.  Most of the carbon and Kevlar fabric come by the yard, so if you buy 1 yard you might have enough for 3-8 units, depending on whether it's a tape (narrow fabric 6 inches wide) or off a full roll (usually 40 or 50 inch widths).  Brass threaded inserts came by the hundred, even though I only needed five.

If you only consider the cost of the fabric and divide it up from a yard, would probably be $30-50 each. That's peanuts compared to the labor.  I've already easily spent 50-70 hours on this, though a lot of that was in designing and moldmaking stages.

I haven't weighed it yet because I'm not done, but it will be a fraction of the weight of the stock plastic casing and will probably be only slightly less strong (it really doesn't have to be all that strong; who stands on their keyboard?). 

Also strength is such an interesting topic when it comes to carbon fiber since the strength is optimized along the length of the fibers.  For example take a hollow tube. If you want it to resist twisting, then you make it with a lattice of fibers running at 45 degrees to the length of the tube (like one of those Chinese finger catchers when we were kids. Anyone remember those?). If you want it to resist bending, you have it pultruded with straight fibers running the length of the tube (most CF bikes are made like this). If you want it to resist crushing, you make it with the fibers running almost perpendicular to the length, like rings, though it actually is just a really tight spiral since the fibers are continuous. Most tubes are a combination of the above, of course. But that's the real art to CF design.

Sorry so long winded!  Got this to help with the next task:

[cribbit]

Will it resist warping over time?

I wonder what it will end up feeling like to type on. Hopefully all it needs is a good plate to still feel very solid.

But actually though fiberglass + titanium plate for a 5oz keyboard.

[heedpantsnow]

Shouldn't warp at all. The combo of internal ridges, raised sides, and several different materials should head that off.

[CPTBadAss]

Thats almost as sexy as machining porn.

Nah, this thread is as sexy as machining porn. Thanks for posting this build log! It's awesome . I somehow missed this thread up until now!

[heedpantsnow]

Lol thanks. Here's a bit of a teaser:

[heedpantsnow]

Did a ton of sanding over the last several days. Wow. Let me just tell you that when they say that Kevlar has good anti-abrasive properties...they mean it. My dremel sanded through the CF without the slightest hiccup, but when it hit the Kevlar it pretty much just stopped. Had to change to the Diamond wheel to do anything to the Kevlar layer.

Generated a ton of dust, but I think I have it relatively flat and the corners nice and trim.

It should be nice and ready for the final layer of nice twill weave carbon fiber. Probably will do that on Friday.

Here are some pics. Feel free to leave comments or questions.



Oh, forgot to say that I still need to do a leveling coat of epoxy:






Here's a shot of one of the threaded inserts. Feels rock solid.


Thanks!

[cribbit]

Hnnnngg

[JaccoW]

That carbon fibre is a pretty wide weave I must say. I cannot even imagine what that thing must feel like right now. Incredibly light but stiff at the same time probably.

[heedpantsnow]

Yeah I intended that to be the primary strengthening layer. It's 12k plain weave. Soaks up the resin like a sponge (relative to other types). But it looks like crap compared to the upcoming 3k 5oz twill carbon.

[cribbit]

3k 5oz twill carbon.

I google image'd that and immediately came. Mmmmm geometry.

What about fiberglass keycaps? Stem would have to be made of plastic and connected somehow, but still.

[JaccoW]

What about fiberglass keycaps? Stem would have to be made of plastic and connected somehow, but still.

How to Get Fiberglass Out of Fingers - eHow

[heedpantsnow]

What about fiberglass keycaps? Stem would have to be made of plastic and connected somehow, but still.

How to Get Fiberglass Out of Fingers - eHow

Lol. And carbon fiber is even more nasty!

[blackbox]

Looking great! Nice to see the project is going well!

[heedpantsnow]

Looking great! Nice to see the project is going well!

Thank you

[cbot]

You're doing a fantastic job, keep up the good work. Let's see more updates soon! I want to see what the finished project would look like.

[pr0ximity]

Can't believe I didn't see this until now! Really looking forward to the next step!

[tyvar1]

What about fiberglass keycaps? Stem would have to be made of plastic and connected somehow, but still.

How to Get Fiberglass Out of Fingers - eHow

Show Image

are you from sweden? :)

[JaccoW]

What about fiberglass keycaps? Stem would have to be made of plastic and connected somehow, but still.

How to Get Fiberglass Out of Fingers - eHow

Show Image

are you from sweden? :)

Who me? No, I am Dutch. A bit further to the South I'm afraid. ;)

[byker]

Looks really good so far! Excited to see the end result.. 

[tyvar1]

What about fiberglass keycaps? Stem would have to be made of plastic and connected somehow, but still.

How to Get Fiberglass Out of Fingers - eHow

Show Image

are you from sweden? :)

Who me? No, I am Dutch. A bit further to the South I'm afraid. ;)

Aah Okey! That guy from the gif is a YouTube celeb from Sweden :) IjustWantToBeCool

[JaccoW]

Show Image

are you from sweden? :)

Who me? No, I am Dutch. A bit further to the South I'm afraid. ;)

Aah Okey! That guy from the gif is a YouTube celeb from Sweden :) IjustWantToBeCool

Haha I know. I came across him several years ago.
His videos are quite funny.

I can understand parts of it and I grew up with a mixture of American, British and several Scandinavian children's series.
Da Lotte blev usynlig (Lotte stays invisible), Pippi Lĺngstrump (Pippi Longstockings), Ronja Rövardotter (Ronja the Robber/Brigand's daughter) and several others. :)

[tyvar1]

Show Image

are you from sweden? :)

Who me? No, I am Dutch. A bit further to the South I'm afraid. ;)

Aah Okey! That guy from the gif is a YouTube celeb from Sweden :) IjustWantToBeCool

Haha I know. I came across him several years ago.
His videos are quite funny.

I can understand parts of it and I grew up with a mixture of American, British and several Scandinavian children's series.
Da Lotte blev usynlig (Lotte stays invisible), Pippi Lĺngstrump (Pippi Longstockings), Ronja Rövardotter (Ronja the Robber/Brigand's daughter) and several others. :)

Yeah I likes his videos a lot!

Haha that's sounds awesome! I saw those movies when I was a kid to!

[Sent]

Any updates on this?  Love carbon fiber and been a fun build log to keep up with. 

[heedpantsnow]

I have done a few things on it, haven't posted those yet. And actually today bought supplies for the next, and probably final, stage.

Thank you very, very much for the interest and encouragement. Don't worry, it's not dead.

[Sent]

Definitely looking forward to seeing the finished project.  Surprised that this wasn't done sooner, honestly.

[heedpantsnow]

Definitely looking forward to seeing the finished project.  Surprised that this wasn't done sooner, honestly.

You mean surprised it has taken me this long to complete?  Or that someone didn't attempt it sooner? 

[Sent]

The latter. ) 

I know how annoying cf can be.  Used to play around with it a lot back when I was tracking extensively.  It's just such a popular material that I thought someone before you would have attempted this.

[ynrozturk]

Such an awesome project, really can't wait to see the end result.

[heedpantsnow]

Ok. On to the progress.

After the thick CF layer in the last step it was apparent that I needed to level out the base. So I mixed up a batch of epoxy and poured it on, making sure the whole thing was sitting level, and used a piece of peel-ply to add texture so the next layer would have a good surface to adhere to.

Here's how it looked after curing:


I had to do some repair work. Due to this little nub in the original mold the material was pushed too far out and did not form properly around the area for the USB connector. So, I cut this area and remade it using short cut carbon fiber tow mixed with epoxy. That enabled the rear corner to conform to the side of the mold without lifting.

Here's the offending bit:


More coming!

[ynrozturk]

Looks fantastic!

[JackMills]

Off Topic: Thank you JaccoW, I had this image from my youth stuck in my head about a girl that became invisible after pushing her bellybutton. Your post made look up those titles and I saw the scene that I remembered from "Da Lotte blev unsynlig", so thank you.

Haha I know. I came across him several years ago.
His videos are quite funny.

I can understand parts of it and I grew up with a mixture of American, British and several Scandinavian children's series.
Da Lotte blev usynlig (Lotte stays invisible), Pippi Lĺngstrump (Pippi Longstockings), Ronja Rövardotter (Ronja the Robber/Brigand's daughter) and several others.

On Topic: browsing the forum, thinking about carbon plates and finding this carbon case. Looks really nice, I like the idea of using Kevlar for the first layer. Very nice!

Ok. On to the progress.

After the thick CF layer in the last step it was apparent that I needed to level out the base. So I mixed up a batch of epoxy and poured it on, making sure the whole thing was sitting level, and used a piece of peel-ply to add texture so the next layer would have a good surface to adhere to.

Here's how it looked after curing:

More

Show Image

I had to do some repair work. Due to this little nub in the original mold the material was pushed too far out and did not form properly around the area for the USB connector. So, I cut this area and remade it using short cut carbon fiber tow mixed with epoxy. That enabled the rear corner to conform to the side of the mold without lifting.

Here's the offending bit:

More

Show Image

More coming!

[TheOpposition]

What an amazing project! I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[heedpantsnow]

OK so I get to necro my own thread lol.

I'm sorry for the lack of updates.  My project experienced a tragedy and I honestly haven't had the emotional energy to post about it or think about how to move forward.  You'll see what I mean...

So where we left off I had just done the leveling coat of epoxy and used a textured peel-able cover on it so the next layer would stick well (called Peel-ply).

The piece already has more than enough stiffness and strength.  This last layer adds more stiffness and strength, but really the point is to make a nice looking final layer with a nicer weave than the strong-but-a-bit-ugly 12k plain weave pictured above.  So I went with 3k twill weave of the absolute top quality.  This fiber comes from the same manufacturer where companies like McLaren, Koenigsegg, etc. get their CF.

I don't want to use any more than is absolutely necessary, so I very carefully measure out how much I'll need and cut it accordingly.  I contemplated a drop of super glue at the corners to make it easier to handle but in the end it was okay without.


I decided to finish off the piece by first epoxying only the main flat part (bottom) and leaving the sides without epoxy.  Once the bottom is fixed then I will wrap the CF around the edges and epoxy the rest.  The theory was sound, but it was really hard to get it right.

Here is the back in epoxy, under smooth finish vacuum bag (no vacuum bagging here because I want to control the spread of the epoxy):



Corners OK:


And afterward folding the CF over the edges, with a ruler cut to length inside and secured by several high-tech clamps :-) :


This part was really, really hard to coordinate all at one time.  Making sure I got all the carbon fibers, had them straight and saturated with epoxy, then covered with the bagging material, then the ruler, and then also putting on all the clothespins was just too much at one time.  One side turned out really nice, the other side was meh.

Really nice side:


Meh side:

CENSORED

If I ever do any more of these, I won't do it this way. It's just too hard to get it right, and I don't think the edge is much nicer than a cut, routed, and sanded edge.

So after it all cured, now comes the finishing and polishing stage.  Not so great at this, as you will see...I'll post that in the next few days along with the (tragic) ending.

[JaccoW]

So after it all cured, now comes the finishing and polishing stage.  Not so great at this, as you will see...I'll post that in the next few days along with the (tragic) ending.

No Spoilerz plz! 

[heedpantsnow]

Okay. So I am sorry that it is taken me so long to get these updates. I have a couple IR L stuff going on that keeps me from updating this thread as much as I would like.

So… How to finish a piece of carbon fiber. Well first you need to try to get as smooth a surface as possible using the molding. Using plenty of Epoxy, good vacuum bag techniques, and making sure your vacuum is high enough all help.

Mine ended up with a few pinholes, but not too bad.


They are a pain, however, to deal with.  The basic way to finish carbon fiber is to sand the epoxy down flat, put down a light layer of lacquer using 5-10 misting coats (wait 10 mins in between mists), sand again with finer sandpaper, mist again with lacquer, etc. the goal is to get a very fine, flat, uniform buildup of lacquer to look nice but also protect the CF.

There are basically three tricks to this: always spray super thin coats of lacquer, always use water and a sanding block to sand, and always stop sanding if you see any black on your sandpaper (this means you sanded through lacquer and epoxy and are now sanding carbon. Bad, bad, bad!).

So I started at 400 grit, moved up gradually ending at 2000 grit with about 8 layers of lacquer composed of about 30 thin mists.

Here's an important picture.  It shows three areas of the part after sanding early in the process: areas too low that the sandpaper didn't touch, areas sanded, and toward the edges areas sanded too much to the carbon.

After all that, here's what I ended up with:


...more later

[heedpantsnow]

So I didn't mention this earlier but it is really important to keep everything WARM when lacquer coating. Both the part and the lacquer need to be above about 70F. Most of the time this isn't a problem but I was doing all this in the winter. Yes it is Florida but it still gets down in the high 30's and 40's and the spraying had to be done outside.

So throughout the whole process I was keeping the lacquer can in a bowl of hot water and before each spraying I would put the part in the oven for 3-5 minutes to get it nice and warm.

And you might imagine this is where disaster struck. Each time I put the part in the oven I never set the temp... The part was only in there for the first 5 minutes of preheat so it was never really an issue.  Except one time.

I had just put the part in when my son came in, excited about his new level unlocked in Mario Kart 8. I figured, "I have 5 minutes, no problem."  30 minutes later, while he was dominating me on our third race, I smelled smoke. Uh oh. It then hit me: my part was getting cooked at 350 degrees!

Here's the carnage. It's not pretty.


So, yeah, the part was ruined because of a stupid mistake. All is not lost though.

I learned sooo much this time around. The next time will be better, smoother, and hopefully require less finishing.

And my part turned out amazingly light.

Here's the stock plastic case:


Here's the titanium 60% plate:


And here's my case:


All in all I'm pleased with the result. I'm still going to try to sand off the burnt parts and see if I can salvage much of my case. But I've also got some cool ideas for the next iteration!

Thanks for reading!

[ynrozturk]

Thanks for the updates, I was really looking forward to this. Carbon fiber is extremely difficult to work with, so I commend you on this journey. Very tragic ending indeed, but like you said the next round will be a lot better and easier for you I'm sure. And I would LOVE to see that.

[heedpantsnow]

Thanks for the updates, I was really looking forward to this. Carbon fiber is extremely difficult to work with, so I commend you on this journey. Very tragic ending indeed, but like you said the next round will be a lot better and easier for you I'm sure. And I would LOVE to see that.

Thanks dude. I'm recovering from a recent trip now and should start on the next version next week.

[hoz]

i havent read the whole thread so maybe someone mention this already, have you looked into bitumen mats for stiffening up the design?

[JaccoW]

i havent read the whole thread so maybe someone mention this already, have you looked into bitumen mats for stiffening up the design?

Bitumen will work pretty well for dampening the case but they are also quite heavy.

[heedpantsnow]

i havent read the whole thread so maybe someone mention this already, have you looked into bitumen mats for stiffening up the design?

I've not even heard of bitumen mats, thanks for the heads up.

I think the design is sufficiently stiff. It's already at least as strong stock plastic case and I suspect quite a bit more (though I have no way to test this).

JaccoW is right, though. I'm trying to keep weight to a minimum.

[JaccoW]

To give you an idea hoz, each 105 x 105 mm bitumen mat weighs about 40 grams. Seeing as you'll need roughly 2-3 of them to fill an entire board you are looking at an extra 80-120 grams.


But they do work really well though.
I put a few in my FC660M that I used at work.