Post by: Pylon on Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:06:20
(https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/main/graphics/bostonKLE.png?raw=true)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250896;image)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=282563;image)
== Update - March 19, 2022: ==
I am no longer planning on running a group buy for this board. The files have been open-sourced on GitHub (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston), with ordering guides for the 3D-printed version (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/main/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D%20printed%20version) and CNC version (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/main/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/CNC%20version). Both versions have been prototyped. However, the files are provided as-is and cannot be guaranteed to be free from mistakes or defects. Order parts at your own risk. The CERN OHL-W license (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/main/cern_ohl_w_v2.txt) permits 3rd-party group buys with no royalties or fees, but requires changes and derivative works to also be open-sourced. I may change the license to the Acheron OHL V1.4 (http://acheronproject.com/AOHL14/) license in the future, which has similar requirements.
RNDKBD currently sells (https://rndkbd.com/products/boston-keyboard-kit) the 3D-printed version as an in-stock item. I am not directly involved in that sale.
== ==
There are two case options - 3D printed with several FR4 pieces, and a CNC version.
General Specifications:
- 121-keys - full-size + 18 programmable keys
- About 2u narrower than a regular full-size
- Traditional 2x3 Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn nav block
- Full-sized numpad with 2u "0" key
- ISO, split-backspace, split numpad 0, numpad = key and split space support (on universal plate)
- Rotary encoder support, above the Esc key
- USB-C
- STM32F072 controller
- QMK and Vial support
- Optional single-color LED backlight support (has not been tested on latest PCBs)
- Single RGBLED to indicate layer status
- Electrical schematic and firmware largely derived from the Austin. Case and PCB are different.
- Optional hotswap ANSI PCBs designed for both the 3D-printed and CNC versions; being prototyped by RNDKBD
3D-printed/FR4 version:
- 4-piece 3D-printed case, with FR4 bottom panel and bumpon holders. Artwork of Boston's maze-like street network on the bottom
- Printable on cheap hobbyist printers - minimum 200 long x 150 wide x 210mm tall mm build area required. Prototypes were printed on an Ender 3.
- Top mount (technically, though an unusual implementation of it)
- FR4 plate only
- 6.5° typing angle
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250900;image)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250894;image)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250904;image)
CNC version:
- 2-piece CNC case (no weight)
- Traditional top mount
- 6.5° typing angle
- C3 Unified USB-C daughterboard
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=282561;image)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=282567;image)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=282573;image)
The layout for this was inspired by the Austin and also by the 7-row Thinkpad keyboard (http://www.notebookreview.com/picture/?f=60846) you find on Thinkpads of the T420 generation and older. The name is somewhat a pun off Austin since the layout is derived from it, and because I grew up (and currently live) near the city Boston, Massachusetts.
This project uses the open-source Acheron library from the Acheron project (http://acheronproject.com/). KiCAD PCB files are available at my Github below. STL files and STEP files of the 3D-printed version are available here below under the CERN OHL-W (which is fairly permissive), and you are free to use the files to make one yourself.
https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston
Many thanks to Gondolindrim for the Acheron project and for feedback on the early PCBs, and to the designers of the Driftmechanics Austin (Driftingbunnies, PheonixStarr and Gondolindrim) from which this was derived. Also thank you to all 129 people that filled out the old IC form - your feedback was definitely appreciated. At this point I've collected more than enough data, so I took down the form.
MouserPounder made a signature graphic if people want to put these in their signatures (this has a picture of the older prototype)
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0][img width=304 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/LYOA5Fp.jpg[/img][/url]Technofrikus designed an alternative 3D-printed case derived from the files of the CNC version, and also designed a case with a 4° typing angle. The files for those are available on Technofrikus' GitHub (https://github.com/Technofrikus/Boston-Case).
(https://github.com/Technofrikus/Boston-Case/blob/main/Photos/DSCF7709%201.jpg?raw=true)
(post revisions)
May 20, 2020 - Initial post
May 20, 2020 - Replaced renders with ones that accurately depict the seam in the middle
May 29, 2020 - Moved F-keys over rightward slightly. Bottom weight is now aluminum instead of brass as the keyboard is pretty heavy to begin with.
June 2, 2020 - Corrected some references to the Austin
June 19, 2020 - Added pictures of prototype (without LEDs or rotary encoder installed)
June 20, 2020 - Added signature link that MousePounder made
July 4, 2020 - Updated signature link
July 12, 2020 - Reorganized feature list, added plate files to Github
August 16, 2020 - Shortened title
September 3, 2020 - Revised post significantly. Removed a lot of outdated info. Added pictures of the 3D-printed version
September 5, 2020 - Fixed required build area to 3D print the case (I overstated the necessary build area). Added some rough tentative pricing for the 3D-printed version. Added IC Form for 3D-printed version.
October 12, 2020 - Added sound test of the 3D-printed version.
January 25, 2021 - Some minor edits, added top pictures of the 3D printed version
February 5, 2021 - Updated the IC in general, removed a lot of out-of-date info. Changed license to CERN OHL-W.
March 27, 2021 - Removed prices
April 11, 2021 - Added FCC disclaimer
March 19, 2022 - Updated everything
May 1, 2022 - Changed some of the images on the original post
Sep 22, 2022 - Removed some outdated info about the metal version from prior revisions (and some stuff I accidentally copy-pasted from the 3D printed section)
Dec 28, 2022 - Added links to Technofrikus' , and RNDKBD's in-stock 3D-printed version
April 26, 2023 - Fixed broken links, noted hotswap PCBs being prototyped, renamed metal version to CNC version, removed outdated note about CNC version unlikely to be open-sourced
June 22, 2023 - noted that RNDKBD is doing a GB in the title
Post by: pears on Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:09:17
Post by: hali on Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:15:42
Post by: norb on Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:17:56
Post by: IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES on Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:51:54
Post by: Butterbeer on Wed, 20 May 2020, 15:12:50
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 20 May 2020, 15:14:31
The layout and electrical schematic are derived from the Austin. The PCB and case are entirely new.
Post by: Slash Emperor on Wed, 20 May 2020, 15:37:37
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: Capsy on Wed, 20 May 2020, 15:54:12
1] The weight will most likely make the back of the keyboard insanely heavy and awkward when picking it up or moving around. I'd suggest a smaller weight or a centered weight to drop in at the back if you still want to keep it as heavy as this design.
2] I'd bring the LED lights closer to each other.
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 20 May 2020, 16:13:00
I'll consider moving the LEDs closer together - right now they are aligned with the three keys above it.
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 20 May 2020, 16:51:20
Post by: Evilocity on Thu, 21 May 2020, 10:14:16
Post by: dani_ on Thu, 21 May 2020, 11:46:28
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 21 May 2020, 11:50:49
Have you considered a 2u vertical key in the function row? Similar to the tall Escape and Delete in the old school Thinkpads?
I thought about doing a 2u vertical Esc key before I put the encoder in (the lone 1u Esc key looked a bit awkward), but no one makes a 2u vertical Esc key (I suppose I could get one dye subbed and that's it), or 2u vertical keys in general that aren't blanks or numpad keys (though Cherry did make a relegendable one that's shown up in a couple of point-of-sale boards)
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 29 May 2020, 18:46:12
- I reached out to three different US vendors to ask to partner with a group buy. Two have declined as they said they already had a lot of keyboard GBs in their queue and would not be able to take on more. The third has not responded for several days.
- If no vendors agree to partner, I would fulfill the GB myself. This would likely result in:
- A fairly low limit on the number of spots in the first round, probably between 10-25. For QC reasons I would have to order extras due to potential QC rejects, so there will probably be an extras/scratch+dent round where I sell off QC rejects at a lower price.
- Since I haven’t run a GB before, and there are obvious trust issues with first-time GBs not run through a vendor, I might end up having to fund and stock R1 myself and just sell the kits myself. This would most likely limit R1 to <10 units.
- Only offering raw-machined aluminum for the case, as I’ve been reading plenty (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100415.1950) of horror stories (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92344.450) about QC issues with anodization (the Norbatouch designer states that (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=102635.0) cosmetic defects can be present on >50% of parts received, and I don’t have the resources to hound suppliers or risk losing money running a GB due to QC issues. If R1 goes well I may try to find a US-based anodization shop and try to offer anodization and colors in R2 (or offer powder-coating or Cerakote or whatever)
- If R1 goes well I would probably do an R2 with more spots, or possibly an unrestricted R2 (ideally with a vendor partner)
- I reworked the CAD somewhat to try to make the case narrower, and moved the F-keys over rightwards to free up more space around the rotary encoder. This also makes the gaps between key groups consistent. I also simplified the bottom piece, and changed it from brass to aluminum as the keyboard probably does not need additional weight, and aluminum is much cheaper. I updated the renders to reflect this.
- Expecting to have a CNC prototype built in about two or three weeks. Sent out updated files today to SuNPe, and should be placing orders for PCBs and case parts shortly
- I designed a couple of 3D-printed designs (including a sandwich case) that I got quoted with US-based 3D-printing and laser-cutting services Xometry and Sendcutsend, but it ends up not being much cheaper than Chinese CNC aluminum above volumes of 25 (though shipping costs from China right now are killer so it might still be worth it). I might attempt designing a sheet metal case and getting it quoted with a local sheet metal shop to see if it ends up being cheaper.
- I compiled a rough BOM, and will probably price this between $400-$500 with an unanodized CNC aluminum case, though pending accurate shipping cost quotes from China.
Also thank you all for responding to the Interest Check form. So far it looks like:
- Most people (43%) have no preference on typing angle, with 6-7° and 7-8° being about equally popular for those that have a preference. I'll shoot for 7° in that case
- Black and dark gray are the most popular colors. Unfortunately, unless I can find a vendor to partner I'm unlikely to offer anodization on R1 so it will probably have to be silver for now.
- 20% of people expressed interest in ISO support. I will design an ISO plate and offer it, though due to lower quantities it will probably cost slightly more.
- Brass, POM, and aluminum are the most popular plate materials. I'm building the prototype with stainless steel (I've only used steel plates to date), but will offer those materials. I do have some concerns with POM and aluminum ending up with scratches and other surface-finish issues when arriving from the laser-cutter, and aluminum tends to have serious burrs after laser-cutting, so I will have to resolve those issues (or offer a disclaimer that plates may come with small scratches)
Post by: Aiwanei on Sat, 30 May 2020, 11:30:24
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 19 June 2020, 18:36:44
- Still working on the vendor situation. Honestly I haven't put a ton of effort into vendor communication, but going to try to find a vendor to run this with. There is one vendor that's interested, but we're on opposite coasts and trying to figure out how to deal with QC inspections. I'm still not sure when I can run the GB as a result, but it can be anywhere as soon as a month from now to much longer than that. I intend to get the prototype working and finalized before starting a GB
- I found a US machine shop to make cases for future prototypes and for an initial GB run
- Raw-machined aluminum is much more prone to scratches than I was hoping, so I may have to do anodization. I need to find a good anodization shop, as QC issues in anodization seem to be a major source of GB issues and delays. A lot of anodization issues also have to do with the underlying aluminum and may be outside the control of the anodization shop.
- Parts for the prototype came in! I assembled these together and posted photos of the assembled prototype (minus the rotary encoder, which I forgot to order in my Mouser order. I'm making some minor mechanical changes as a result of learnings from assembly.) I haven't gotten around to working on the firmware yet so it's not yet a functional keyboard. Some assembly pictures are in the thread in Making Stuff Together (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106239.0)
- I added pictures of the prototype, with an old OG Cherry WoB set and with GMK Neon RGBY Mods
- My goal for the next couple weeks is to work on the firmware and get everything working, and then probably doing another prototype.
Post by: MousePounder on Fri, 19 June 2020, 19:59:56
I answered the IC so I wish you luck in getting this GB sorted. I am going to set aside 1k in the hopes this project comes together and I can buy this and GMK Houhai 后海 !
GMK Houhai 后海 on this keyboard will look sick https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107034.0;all (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107034.0;all)
Post by: MousePounder on Fri, 19 June 2020, 20:23:16
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 19 June 2020, 20:43:18
Post by: MousePounder on Fri, 19 June 2020, 22:29:34
I wanted a link for this project to put next to the keycaps I am going to get.
Code: [Select]
[/url][url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0][img width=168 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/fkFBETF.png?1[/img][/url]
Post by: hottrout on Sat, 20 June 2020, 03:10:53
Post by: UggNot on Sat, 20 June 2020, 10:50:03
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 20 June 2020, 17:21:12
This is SUPER basic but i set up one of those code things for people to put in there signatures.
I wanted a link for this project to put next to the keycaps I am going to get.Code: [Select][/url][url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0][img width=168 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/fkFBETF.png?1[/img][/url]
Thanks so much! My graphics design skills are nonexistent so definitely appreciated. I'll put it up on the main post.
Post by: MousePounder on Sat, 20 June 2020, 18:02:49
I am super stoked about this project. :thumb: ;D
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:59:10
Post by: jawoo on Mon, 22 June 2020, 12:32:45
Post by: VXQN on Tue, 23 June 2020, 04:55:35
Post by: jawoo on Fri, 26 June 2020, 04:49:34
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 26 June 2020, 15:03:31
Would you make a version 2.0 with no numpad for your next project? I would be all over it.
Probably not, as I'm a numpad user. If I get more involved with designing keyboards I could look into doing say, a 65% with additional keys on top, but for personal use I need a numpad.
Would you have color on them in R1? color is a must for me, I am in. Otherwise, I go for R2.
I'm still trying to get R1 sorted out, and it's a maybe on color. The original plan was to have SuNPe machine and anodize them in China, but I've been getting reports that their anodization work hasn't been great in the past. I also looked into just offering a raw as-machined aluminum case without any finishing, but raw aluminum is pretty soft and prone to scratches, and my prototype has gotten pretty scratched up, so I'm not comfortable offering that as it won't hold up. So I'm going to have to find a good anodizer now, probably within the US. From what I've read, clear anodization is generally less prone to QC issues than having colors (since it doesn't require dying) so that's most likely the only finish I'll offer on R1. The other option would be to find a supplier to powder-coat or Cerakote the case for colors.
I'm also trying to work out the vendor situation . Pretty much all vendors I've reached out to except one have either not responded, or had their hands full with other keyboard GBs, and the one that's willing to run it is on the West Coast, and I'm still trying to sort out how QC would work (as I may also have to inspect all arriving parts, which may mean having to do a Boston->West Coast shipment of the parts, which would probably add $30-$40 per keyboard to the cost).
Post by: vhwatgoes on Tue, 07 July 2020, 10:14:04
Post by: megaforce on Thu, 09 July 2020, 00:43:26
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 09 July 2020, 01:41:27
After some thought I'm also adding an RGBLED indicator light next to the escape key to indicate QMK layer status (so people who assign multiple functions to the P-keys can be aware of what function the P-keys are set to). As a result I'm building up another prototype in the few next week and implementing those features in QMK.
Post by: hottrout on Thu, 09 July 2020, 02:48:47
Post by: Starius on Sat, 11 July 2020, 22:45:31
Post by: esc on Sun, 12 July 2020, 08:39:57
The aesthetics don't really speak to me. If this were my design, I would rework the 'foot' to be a wedge, with bottom plane parallel to the desk. I'd add a big chamfer to the front too, like the Cherry G80-3000. I would either eliminate the seam on the sides or embrace it and offer independent anodization of the top and bottom pieces. Personally I'd go for a light grey top with a cream bottom, or perhaps dark grey top and black bottom. Finally, I'd explore a design with the numpad on the left. These are all just my own preferences, of course, so probably worth less than the electrons which brought these characters to your eyes.
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 12 July 2020, 20:00:04
I intentionally didn't go for a typical wedge shape on either the bottom piece or the case overall because wedges are relatively expensive to machine. To machine a wedge well, you either need to do machine it on a 5-axis CNC, or a 3-axis with custom angled fixturing, which for a keyboard of this size is not cheap (and would have resulted in significantly more expensive prototypes). If you have holes going in at only one angle you could do 3D-profiling on a 3-axis (which takes a lots of machine time if you want an okay finish), but as soon as you have holes or pockets coming in at 2 different angles (e.g. a pocket for your bumpons parallel to the desk and a set of holes parallel to the plate to attach the plate) you need to do either the 5-axis or the custom fixturing. Both cost quite a bit more than typical 3-axis CNC machining.
if there's interest in a wedge-shaped case I could design one (possibly without a seam), with the caveat that it would cost more.
The more I think about the seam is potentially problematic alignment wise, but it does allow for stronger and thinner bezels than if I had done a one-piece seamless and then do the bottom piece as a flat plate, as it keeps the wall height/thickness ratios on the bezels lower, which results in stronger walls.
Post by: cirrus82 on Sun, 12 July 2020, 20:26:30
Post by: stoffelduss on Mon, 13 July 2020, 04:02:34
Just having that one slightly bigger key in the mods next to the arrow keys would be a big improvement, imo :)
I ordered a bunch of kits in the last dev/tty run on drop so I'll have enough sensibly labelled keys for the top area of the board ;D
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 18 July 2020, 04:04:34
I'm considering spending a week or two significantly redesigning the keyboard, after thoughts on the last prototype:
1.) The prototype has the controller on a socketed daughterboard separate from the keyboard PCB. The plan for the GB was to deliver the keyboard PCB unpopulated and the controller PCB (with all the SMD parts) populated. The advantages of this are:
- PCBs would be slightly cheaper, as the large main PCB would be unpopulated.
- It makes QCing the controllers easier on my end as I could pop them into a populated keyboard to test them before shipping them out.
- The controller is replaceable. This could mean future upgrades, or being able to replace a dead controller in the future without having to desolder the whole keyboard.
- This requires the user to solder 120+ through-hole 1N4148 diodes, which is pretty tedious (it takes me, an experienced solderer, about an hour to solder and trim all the diodes)
- The 2mm headers required to put the controllers on the daughterboard are not cheap, and not the easiest to solder for beginners as it takes some tricks to solder a 40-pin header on straight and flat.
SMD PCB assembly services are also cheaper than I expected. It might make a lot more sense to have everything onto a single board, like most other custom keyboards, and have SMD diodes that are pre-soldered. It would probably not add that much to the cost, and make soldering the PCB easier for beginners and less tedious even for more experienced users. This would also make the PCB more similar to other custom keyboards out there, which have one-piece PCBs where the user is only expected to solder switches and maybe some LEDs.
2.) Having the seam down the middle of the case results in a stronger and slightly narrower case comparing to one where the seam is hidden below the keyboard, and allows for a much smaller gap between the two pieces, but it adds a couple issues:
- For colors other than silver and black, matching anodization between two different pieces of aluminum is difficult, and it is likely the top and bottom halves would end up as slightly different shades. If I remove the middle seam and just have a cover plate on the bottom, the anodization doesn't have to match as well as the bottom is normally not visible during use.
- There might be very slight (<0.13mm) misalignment between the top half and the bottom half. This is present on the prototype, which was manufactured by SuNPe with their standard tolerances (+/-0.13mm) This isn't very visible, and doesn't cause any functional issues, but can be easily felt if you run your fingernail across the seam, and might be bothersome. I can eliminate this by tightening tolerances, but that would raise the price of the case significantly.
I'm debating spending some time designing a seamless case. The aesthetics would be similar to the current prototype (basic rectangle with rounded corner, and 45° chamfers) minus the seam down the middle.
Ultimately this keyboard is unlikely to cost less than $400 during GB due to its size and likely small run on R1, and I'm not sure how acceptable the above caveats of the current design are on a keyboard of that price. Hence it will probably have to go through another redesign.
Also I did some work on a 3D-printed/laser-cut sandwich case for the same PCB and can probably hit <$180 total cost if I make the middle layer out of several smaller 3D-printed pieces. I'm going to do some more work on that design, but if it goes well I'll post more details of that and maybe a render.
Post by: MousePounder on Sat, 18 July 2020, 09:41:47
Response for point #1
I would be fine with a bit extra cost upfront to make the board easier to assemble.
Response for point #2
I do think seamless would look better in the end if you don't need to worry about color matching the top and bottom parts.
On a personal note, I am for sure the type that would find it bothersome to feel the seem.
I was already on board for this project at 600 so no worries about the pricing from me.
I am fine with waiting if it makes the end product closer to perfect.
Thanks for the update. :thumb:
Post by: nikron on Sat, 18 July 2020, 10:38:23
I think you should consider the seamless design if you aren't willing to raise the tolerances. But generally it sounds like you should be shooting for a higher price in order to make a better board. Given that there's not much competition for a 120%, what's the difference between $400 and $600?
Post by: asmashedpumpkin on Sat, 18 July 2020, 13:35:10
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 20 July 2020, 17:55:48
Hey! I just filled out the form but there's another form of feedback I want to give: I don't like how the bottom row looks with all 1.25u keys on one side and all 1u keys on the other. Instead of 125/125/125/625/100/100/100 I'd prefer something like 125/100/125/625/100/100/125.
Just having that one slightly bigger key in the mods next to the arrow keys would be a big improvement, imo :)
I ordered a bunch of kits in the last dev/tty run on drop so I'll have enough sensibly labelled keys for the top area of the board ;D
Sorry for not responding to this for a while. I'm not sure how much alternative bottom row support I want to provide at this point, especially for less common bottom rows like the one you suggested, as it makes soldering/assembly and firmware trickier. I guess I could slot the PCB and just publish different plate files for different bottom row layouts if people really wanted alternate bottom row support, but it would be a fairly low priority right now. Sorry.
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 22 July 2020, 16:21:47
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=5]
It still has a seam, but I moved it lower and added an overhang, to reduce the temptation of running your fingernail across the seam. In addition, the bottom weight is now optional if you want to run the keyboard at a 0° angle if you so chose:
[attachimg=4]
I also moved the RGBLED layer indicator light to above the right arrow key, to take up the awkward gap in the keys here. I'll be slotting in a diffused plastic lightpipe in here.
Post by: MousePounder on Wed, 22 July 2020, 16:37:45
First, The black bottom and silvertop in the renders looks awesome and I would be fine if that was the only option.
Or I can always do up the bottom in black myself if you end up not being able to do colors at first.
Second, I like the changes to the seam and the added overhang. In my mind that will make it far less of a standout contact point to get annoyed by.
Does this also hide where the two halves meet together? so if the seam is not flawless you wont really see it?
Lastly, The change to use up the space by the arrow keys sounds cool as long as the light is not distracting.
Overall very happy with these new renders and look forward to your future updates on the project.
Thanks for doing this and good luck to you.
Post by: switchnollie on Wed, 22 July 2020, 16:41:30
I would never figure out what to do with all those keys tho :p
Post by: -Jerry- on Wed, 22 July 2020, 17:23:16
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 23 July 2020, 00:41:45
Thanks for the update.
Second, I like the changes to the seam and the added overhang. In my mind that will make it far less of a standout contact point to get annoyed by.
Does this also hide where the two halves meet together? so if the seam is not flawless you wont really see it?
Thanks for the comments! Yes the point of contact between the two halves is hidden by a small lip on the top piece.
Post by: nikron on Thu, 23 July 2020, 17:42:57
Post by: nikron on Fri, 24 July 2020, 11:38:53
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 24 July 2020, 12:00:13
One thing that's a little weird for about this board is the position of the arrow keys. I think the up arrow should line up with the vertical macro keys. Maybe move the arrow cluster down and to the right, below the numpad and the core keys?
That would make the board wider, which I'm trying to avoid doing. I'm still trying to keep this narrower than a full-size while still having 2u numpad "0".
The layout's based off the Austin (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106139.0) layout. It does leave an awkward gap next to the arrow keys, but it's still the narrowest form factor with a 2u "0" key that retains the arrow keys.
Post by: Lord_Rabel on Wed, 12 August 2020, 07:02:36
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 15 August 2020, 11:45:51
- I finished the layout of the new single PCB redesign. I should have physical PCBs here by end of next week for testing.
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bluepylons/Boston/master/graphics/PCB-bottom-V0.4.png)
- The new version added support for split backspace. I removed support for under-key lock LEDs as that made the layout much more complex.
- I just finalized the new aluminum case design (see previous posts for rough renders) and will be sending out for prototypes next week. It looks pretty much the same as the renders I posted a couple of posts ago, though I moved the RGBLED layer status indicator to under the knob underneath a diffuser, and the knob will be underlit by RGBLEDs. I'm going to do a fit-test prototype first, and if that works out I'll get a couple more prototypes made to test out anodization and finishes.
- Before I decided to do the redesign, I arranged to have CoreyMFG machine a prototype of the older version just to check how good his machining is. It turned out great!. Shown with ePBT Royal Alpha and some JTK novelties, and a knob off an old HP rubber dome keyboard (that was one of the first keyboards I've ever used). I've been using this as my daily driver for the last week or so. I have the encoder working in QMK, and the RGB LED functions (I just haven't gotten around to writing the layer-status code yet).
[attachimg=3]
- I've been working on a lower-cost 3D-printed version of the keyboard, using the same PCB, but with a multi-part 3D-printed case and FR4 plate. Still figuring out the name for this, but I've been internally referring it as Boston-LC, for "low-cost" (I've considered naming it after a Boston neighborhood but couldn't think of something that would work or wouldn't be offensive). I think I can run this for <$150 during GB, and I’ll release the 3D-printing files if people want to print their own case - the parts are small enough to print on inexpensive hobbyist FDM 3D-printers like the Creality Ender 3 or Prusa Mk 3 . I'll also be prototyping this over the next couple weeks, and will post some pictures then!
[attachimg=4]
Post by: Lord_Rabel on Sun, 16 August 2020, 02:24:07
However as someone who makes PCBs kinda often, I want to give you the tipp, that your PCB runs kinda look strange. It probably works no problem, but you probably won't see the PCB anyway so it is just perfectionism from my side xD :D
Post by: IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES on Sun, 16 August 2020, 13:39:30
Since the big guy's named after a city call the LC version Worcester?
Great work man
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 16 August 2020, 14:02:50
There's a pretty good chance I'll run the 3D-printed/FR4 version first, as I can iterate and finalize the design a lot faster since I have access to a 3D printer right now for prototyping, and it's more straightforward since I don't have to get anything anodized. The metal version is about 2-3 weeks to get a prototype produced, and I still need to get the surface finishes figured out(how fine/coarse of a bead-blast finish I want, working with an anodization supplier, maybe trying out anodizing over as-machined aluminum with tool marks visible would look like, etc.)
Post by: hiddensong on Mon, 17 August 2020, 14:34:46
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 19 August 2020, 20:49:55
Finally!! I, for one am getting a bit worn out by all the 60% clones. Very few offer anything different. While this isn’t original by a long shot, it is one that sticks out amongst today’s offerings. I love me a battleship and am down for one of the versions. Maybe grab the file and get an acrylic one made? Good luck and I sincerely wish you the best.
The PCB files are on the Github (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston)! Though the main design there hasn't been verified yet, so I would recommend holding off at least a couple of weeks. I also need to seriously reorganize the directories...
Got parts from JLCPCB today for the 3D-printed/FR4 version (the redesigned aluminum version uses the same PCB). Still waiting on some switches to arrive from Novelkeys, and I still need to print out a couple of parts (I just bought an Ender 3 Pro 3D printer and am setting it up), but did a super quick test fit with what I have. I'll be soldering the PCB later this week and getting QMK set up (the matrix has changed from the earlier version).
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
The raw HASL - lead free finish on the plate has a lot of blemishes, so I'm probably going to have solder mask over that, and it wouldn't be that shiny on future boards.
IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES - my one hesitancy with naming the 3D-printed/FR4 version Worcester: I spent a fair amount of time putting a map of Boston graphic on the bottom cover, though I guess I could switch it out for a map of Worcester.
Post by: IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES on Wed, 19 August 2020, 21:55:55
Pawtucket? (It’s a Boston ‘minor league’)?
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 19 August 2020, 23:09:47
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 19 August 2020, 23:44:15
Post by: The.Ryan.Gamer on Sun, 23 August 2020, 05:24:01
Any ideas about pricing?
Post by: psxndc on Sun, 23 August 2020, 18:41:36
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 23 August 2020, 22:13:53
Interesting. I would love to see a build vids before the GB.
Any ideas about pricing?
I don't have quotes on PCB assembly yet (affects both, but will be the bulk of the cost on the 3D-printed/FR4 version), as I'm still verifying the redesigned PCB, and don't have finish/anodizing quotes on the redesigned aluminum version (which isn't prototyped yet). I also haven't decided the GB size yet (though this is my first GB and I will be self-fulfillingl, so expect <50 on first round)
For very rough estimates, expect <$80 for a barebones PCB/FR4/hardware kit (where end-user 3D prints the 3D-printed parts themselves - I will release the STL files), <$150 for a complete 3D-printed/FR4-version kit, and $550 or less on the aluminum version (might be way less, but depends on yields).
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 27 August 2020, 04:14:09
[attach=1]
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 02 September 2020, 23:12:58
- I sent out the machining order for the redesigned aluminum version. Should be here in a couple of weeks.
- I built the first prototype for the 3D-printed/FR4 version. Pics below, with OG WoB and GMK Neon RGBY mods. I later installed GMK Bingsu, which is the last pic. This was 3D-printed with white PLA filament.
- The PCB was completely redesigned, so I'll be doing some testing on the board over the next week to see if any issues turn up. I have QMK up and working, though still haven't written the layer-status indicator light yet. I'm doing 1 more spin on the 3D-printed version to fix some minor things. I just moved and am still unpacking, but I'll be setting up my 3D printer in the basement and printing a couple more cases to see if I can consistently good print quality (there's a couple print quality issues on this particular one, though the white filament hides it really well in pictures). Once all that's done I'll hopefully be ready for a group buy on the 3D-printed/FR4 version.
- I understand the front page still needs to get updated, but I am waiting for the prototype for the redesigned aluminum version to be finished before doing so, as this is what the IC is for, and throwing on the 3D-printed one on the main page at the same time - I don't really want to post the 3D-printed/FR4 version with the older aluminum version as that's not what I'll be running a GB for anymore. I guess I could do renders for the aluminum version til then as an alternative, though I'm not great at doing renders and would rather spend the time tweaking/improving the proto.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
Post by: asmashedpumpkin on Wed, 02 September 2020, 23:31:00
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 03 September 2020, 01:13:43
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 03 September 2020, 11:51:56
Thank you for all the work and for supporting us full-is size types :)
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 04 September 2020, 11:42:07
I haven't had a chance to look at the latest kicad files yet, but I was thinking it might be nice to have a spare I2c and/or SPI port on the board do be able to drive some OLED or LCD displays. I was thinking it might be kind of fun to come up with a custom case that has some displays just above the PF keys to show what they are mapped to, kind of like the Cherry/Reuters 9009. But that would definitely be a very optional feature and would in no way keep me from getting one of these.
Thank you for all the work and for supporting us full-is size types :)
Glad you're interested :) I do agree the battleship and full size (not 1800) space is kind of underserved right now in terms of custom keebs.
Unfortunately I'm using every single pin right now on the 48-pin STM32F072 chip I'm using. Though 64-pin and 100-pin versions of the same chip do exist, but would require a significant redesign of the PCB. That's a cool idea for the future though.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 04 September 2020, 11:46:35
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 04 September 2020, 22:46:20
Though I do suppose an i2C/SPI display could eliminate the need for the lock LEDs and possibly the RGBLED status indicator light, so that could free up 4 pins (though the pins they are currently assigned to do not support SPI or I2C).
However, the NumLock and CapsLock will work as a UART :) And since the resistors are through hole, there are already good places to pick them off for messing about. I don't know a lot about QMK yet, but it seems like having a second controller for the display might be a possibilty. And I stumbled across these neat 2.6" three color (white-red-black) e-ink displays that might look really good in the back.
Thanks for all your hard work on this.
Post by: hvontres on Sat, 05 September 2020, 04:15:09
It looks like it might work, but I think there is room for improvement:
[attach=1]
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sat, 05 September 2020, 13:42:15
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sat, 05 September 2020, 13:43:41
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 05 September 2020, 15:34:44
Never mind, I thought the 3d printed version was top mount but it is actually sandwich ~ ~ : )
It's technically a top mount, though not exactly so - the plate is screwed into the top side of the case. It's just the screws are flipped (screws come in from the top and grab onto threaded holes in the plate to hold the plate to the top of the case, rather than screws coming in from the bottom). This was a necessary compromise from how I'm 3D printing the case. It's not a sandwich case at all from how the plate is mounted.
[attachimg=1]
The aluminum version is a traditional top mount.
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 05 September 2020, 15:36:15
So I played around a little bit tonight, and here is a possible layout using a few of these : https://www.buydisplay.com/serial-spi-1-5-inch-color-oled-display-128x128-graphic-module-ssd1351 (https://www.buydisplay.com/serial-spi-1-5-inch-color-oled-display-128x128-graphic-module-ssd1351)
It looks like it might work, but I think there is room for improvement:
(Attachment Link)
Oh nice. Yeah, feel free to use or modify the PCB design to add those displays if you so desire. It should also be fairly easy to break out those microcontroller pins from the status LED pads.
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 05 September 2020, 20:20:35
Post by: long_qt_pie on Sat, 05 September 2020, 21:32:07
Any possibility for 7u bottom row or 2x [1.5]u right of spacebar?
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 06 September 2020, 22:16:02
In for Fr4/3d
Any possibility for 7u bottom row or 2x [1.5]u right of spacebar?
I'm doing one more PCB spin before GB, so let met see if I can add it into the PCB and plate. Austin does it so it shouldn't be terribly difficult (1.5u-1.5u-7u-1.5u-1.5u is an option on Austin) since the lower 5 rows of this keyboard is basically that of the Austin.
Post by: Poetart on Tue, 15 September 2020, 11:55:05
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 15 September 2020, 14:05:17
- Do people want a Discord server? I could also start posting daily updates to this thread or something.
- Adding 1.5u and split-space to the PCB. This also necessitates some changes to the plate.
- Trying to work out some minor print quality issues on my 3D printer so that I can reliably print good quality cases. I also reached out to my friend who has a Prusa Mk3 3D printer.
- Need to implement some features in QMK, set up QMK configurator, and redo the current QMK matrix/keymap files so they're done properly (the current files work but don't follow proper convention)
- Write up assembly instructions
Right now I'm:
Other stuff on the to-do list:
Prototypes for the aluminum version are still a couple of weeks out.
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 18 September 2020, 14:08:59
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H486e6d8e88a446ce8f981e2dc7d319695.jpg)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001162310002.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.72f8613584HAGL&algo_pvid=ac0d96a4-c197-43b1-a80b-0091d910e5d8&algo_expid=ac0d96a4-c197-43b1-a80b-0091d910e5d8-0&btsid=0bb0623e16004142608567827e74b3&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
(https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001162310002.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.72f8613584HAGL&algo_pvid=ac0d96a4-c197-43b1-a80b-0091d910e5d8&algo_expid=ac0d96a4-c197-43b1-a80b-0091d910e5d8-0&btsid=0bb0623e16004142608567827e74b3&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_)
215 keys, and most importantly, a complete second set of F-keys
Post by: Sslix on Fri, 18 September 2020, 20:35:08
Post by: ChonkNogga on Mon, 21 September 2020, 05:56:03
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 21 September 2020, 12:00:24
This lookin sick. Any chance a brass weight will be available for the FR4 version or has design been finalised already?
Thanks! Regarding the weight - the 3D printed design is reasonably finalized ATM, though being 3D printed it's not hard to make changes. For the brass weight - I suppose you could replace the 1.6mm FR4 panel on the bottom (the one with a map on it) with a laser-cut brass panel, possibly a thicker one (you would need longer M3 screws). I'm not sure if I'll offer it, as a brass weight of that size would probably add at least $50 to the price, but I'll have DXFs of the bottom panel published, if you want to go to Sendcutsend or wherever and have a weight laser-cut.
Post by: Poetart on Wed, 23 September 2020, 16:36:17
Do people want a Discord server? I could also start posting daily updates to this thread or something.
Right now I'm:
- Adding 1.5u and split-space to the PCB. This also necessitates some changes to the plate.
- Trying to work out some minor print quality issues on my 3D printer so that I can reliably print good quality cases. I also reached out to my friend who has a Prusa Mk3 3D printer.
Other stuff on the to-do list:
- Need to implement some features in QMK, set up QMK configurator, and redo the current QMK matrix/keymap files so they're done properly (the current files work but don't follow proper convention)
- Write up assembly instructions
Prototypes for the aluminum version are still a couple of weeks out.
I would love to have a discord setup for this. I want to make sure I don't miss out on this and I don't check the forums too often.
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 23 September 2020, 16:55:18
Do people want a Discord server? I could also start posting daily updates to this thread or something.
Right now I'm:
- Adding 1.5u and split-space to the PCB. This also necessitates some changes to the plate.
- Trying to work out some minor print quality issues on my 3D printer so that I can reliably print good quality cases. I also reached out to my friend who has a Prusa Mk3 3D printer.
Other stuff on the to-do list:
- Need to implement some features in QMK, set up QMK configurator, and redo the current QMK matrix/keymap files so they're done properly (the current files work but don't follow proper convention)
- Write up assembly instructions
Prototypes for the aluminum version are still a couple of weeks out.
I would love to have a discord setup for this. I want to make sure I don't miss out on this and I don't check the forums too often.
I set up e-mail notifications for this thread for that reason.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: mr.squishy on Thu, 24 September 2020, 02:36:01
I think you could still call the fr4/3dp version the Boston, just call it the Boston South End. I like Brookline too.
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 26 September 2020, 10:30:44
- Starting off with some bad news, there is a global shortage right now of the 128KB versions of the microcontroller chip I am using (STM32F072, variants CBT6, CBT7, CBU6, and CBU7), with the chip out of stock everywhere and no restock date yet announced. My options moving forward are:
- Wait potentially months for the 128KB chips to restock. This would delay either the GB or fulfillment.
- Switch to the 64KB version of the STM32F072 (variants C8T6, C8T7, C8U6, and C8U7) for at least the first GB run. This would kill prospects of future VIA support on any board that uses the 64KB version of the chip, as that's not enough flash for VIA's EEPROM emulation (I wasn't planning on adding VIA support at the moment, but it's something that's quite possible in the future). However the 64KB chips are still widely available, QMK will work just fine (the current QMK firmware only takes up about 32KB), and this requires no redesign of the PCB. Future GB rounds may use the 128kb version.
- Redesign around a different microcontroller. This would require a PCB redesign and another 1-2 rounds of prototyping, which I'm not really willing to do right now.
- Aside from the microcontroller shortage, I should be ready for a group buy for the 3D-printed version in a couple of weeks, and I'll announce a GB date when ready. I'm planning to self-fulfill this, and the GB will probably capped at 50 units for complete ones (maybe another 20 for those that want to print their own cases), and done old-school using Paypal and Google Forms.
- I'm still working on getting print quality up to snuff. I've moved some of the seams around and have been tinkering with some other settings on my 3D printer. My friend, who has a Prusa Mk3 3D printer, also said he'd be willing to print cases on his printers
- I should have new PCBs coming in in a week and building a couple more prototypes. This will be to test out the split space layout and the backlight, and hopefully be the final revision before group buy.
- The CNC version is weeks out. Prototypes are being machined.
Other than that:
Post by: hiddensong on Mon, 28 September 2020, 03:42:45
Post by: Realdrian on Tue, 29 September 2020, 18:58:10
I love this design and am super IN for a aluminum kit whatever the cost
Post by: ChonkNogga on Wed, 30 September 2020, 07:31:40
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 30 September 2020, 19:16:23
Regarding adding a map onto the aluminum version - this has been requested by several people, but I'm kind of hesitant to do it and currently don't have plans to. For aluminum I'll have to either laser-engrave or print the map on somehow, which would add a fair amount of cost, and it most likely won't look as good as the FR4 bottom. Alternatively I could make a pocket on the bottom piece to embed an FR4 panel that has the artwork on it, but this would mean the bottom of the keyboard is now FR4 instead of aluminum, and the keyboard would feel a bit cheaper to hold. This is also complicated somewhat by the removable weight on the bottom on the aluminum one, which some people will have on (to set the keyboard to 6.4°) and some people won't have (if they want a 0° typing angle), and I'm not sure if I can get a design that looks good with both the weight on and the weight removed.
I added the map to the 3D-printed version since the bottom FR4 panel is manufactured as a PCB, so I get silkscreen, copper, and solder-mask layers for free, so I figured I might I might as well use those to add artwork. I was originally going to do a laser-cut stainless or brass bottom panel, but FR4 ended up being much cheaper, and being able to do the map for free ended up being a nice perk of doing FR4 too.
Post by: Realdrian on Thu, 08 October 2020, 10:07:46
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 11 October 2020, 02:17:52
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 11 October 2020, 02:24:28
GB will probably be in mid-November as that's when I'm expecting the chips to restock.
Post by: Really_Just_AE on Sun, 11 October 2020, 20:31:59
As usual, apologies for lack of updates - I unfortunately lost power and internet for three days, but am back now. I'm building up a proto of the latest PCB revision, and writing up assembly instructions. I'll make a sound test video soon tomorrow or Monday also.
GB will probably be in mid-November as that's when I'm expecting the chips to restock.
Given this timeline, what do you think the turnaround would be for the 3d printed versions? Something about this keyboard just screams to me to turn it into a Christmas gift for my dad ;D
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 12 October 2020, 00:25:14
Using the onboard microphone on a Nikon D3300:
Using a Shure SM58 mic dangled above the keyboard:
Given this timeline, what do you think the turnaround would be for the 3d printed versions? Something about this keyboard just screams to me to turn it into a Christmas gift for my dad ;D
This depends on the size of the GB and the PCB supplier I go with. It takes me a bit over a day to print everything necessary. Best-case scenario is if I cap it to 25 units, and do the PCBs through JLCPCB (~1 week turn, limited to 30 PCBs), everything goes smoothly (e.g. my 3D printer doesn't break), and hand-solder on the remaining components, the first units would ship out in a week and the GB is fulfilled in a month. This is extremely optimistic, and it's much more likely that it takes 2-3 months, if I go with a full-service PCB supplier (e.g. Elecrow or AllPCB) and do a larger GB. After having talked to other GB runners about their experiences, they recommended doing no more than 30 units for a very first group buy, so R1's probably going to get capped to ~25, with some extras/B-stock to be sold after. I would then try to run R2 as soon as possible afterwards.
Post by: phxrbn on Tue, 13 October 2020, 13:05:47
Post by: dunskivuli on Wed, 14 October 2020, 13:51:49
Post by: EikoMagami on Fri, 16 October 2020, 05:19:52
Post by: lbassett21 on Sun, 18 October 2020, 23:23:02
Post by: dunskivuli on Mon, 26 October 2020, 12:32:46
https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f072c8.html#sample-buy (https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f072c8.html#sample-buy)
Post by: DekuSapling on Wed, 28 October 2020, 13:24:52
@Pylon
Unless I am reading it wrong, it looks like the chips are available again?
https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f072c8.html#sample-buy (https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f072c8.html#sample-buy)
Unfortunately, those are the 64kb variant of the chips, not the 128kb that Pylon is looking to use. The earliest that I could find for the 128kb chips being restocked was 24 Nov 2020 at Mouser. Link to Chips (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F072CBU6TR?qs=s5SkPsIz10%2Fmed9m47hqYw%3D%3D)
Post by: dunskivuli on Wed, 28 October 2020, 13:31:07
@Pylon
Unless I am reading it wrong, it looks like the chips are available again?
https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f072c8.html#sample-buy (https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f072c8.html#sample-buy)
Unfortunately, those are the 64kb variant of the chips, not the 128kb that Pylon is looking to use. The earliest that I could find for the 128kb chips being restocked was 24 Nov 2020 at Mouser. Link to Chips (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F072CBU6TR?qs=s5SkPsIz10%2Fmed9m47hqYw%3D%3D)
Ah you're right, I was digging around a few vendor sites and missed that I ended up on the wrong version on their page. Darn
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 28 October 2020, 23:01:37
- I put together another prototype with the newer revised PCB, which now allows the PCB to accept both QFN and QFP versions of the STM32F072 (though since that redesign the QFN version of the STM32 has also gone out of stock). This also now supports split space, though I still haven't tested that feature out yet.
- I'm sending out 3D-printed prototype kits this week to a couple of people to get their feedback (unfortunately I don't have many PCBs right now due to the microcontroller shortage and do not have additional prototype spots available, so please do not PM me asking for a prototype)
- Draft build instructions are up on Github here (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D-printed%20case%20-%20parts/Draft%20assembly%20instructions%20(incomplete).pdf)
Stuff I still need to do:
- Build a proto with all the alt layouts (split space, ISO, split numpad, etc.). I've done test fits with the plate and they're fine, but should also confirm that it works electrically
- Contact PCB manufacturers (that are not JLCPCB) for quotes on the PCBs, and to see if microcontrollers are available again, especially in China. I noticed this week that Newark and Mouser restocked small amounts of STM32F072CBT6 and STM32F072CBU6, though they're now gone.
- Get QMK configurator working so people don't have to edit text files.
For the aluminum version - the prototype has been pushed back another month, but will have anodization, which should save me from having to get additional surface-finish prototypes in the future (the manufacturer is getting an in-house anodization setup soon, and asked me if I wanted anodization in exchange for a bit longer of a wait as they get that set up)
I started a new job last month and have had less time to devote to this project than before unfortunately, so apologies for the pace things are moving at right now.
Post by: Realdrian on Fri, 30 October 2020, 17:29:15
really looking forward to an aluminum version. :thumb:
Post by: Damogron on Fri, 30 October 2020, 18:37:44
Post by: glowcloud on Fri, 30 October 2020, 20:57:39
Post by: LeoneShamoth on Thu, 05 November 2020, 22:40:48
Post by: hvontres on Sat, 07 November 2020, 14:16:42
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PbpsPC1.jpeg)
Keycaps are Susuwatari with some Row 1 SA keys to fill in the top row. I might put an extra tab key above the numpad later. The kit went together pretty smoothly. The only real issues I ran into were self inflicted. Note to self, if you are putting in under key leds, solder them in AFTER you put in the switches to make alignment easier.
Post by: asmashedpumpkin on Sat, 07 November 2020, 18:55:22
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 07 November 2020, 22:09:44
Getting email notifications for this thread is a rollercoaster. First, the feeling of excited anticipation at the possibility there could be an update on this board. However more often than not, it’s just some person commenting about how they like the board or worse yet, an update on the 3D print version of it. Nothing against that version, but I’m all about a premium aluminum version of this battleship. When I sit in front of this keeb I want to feel like I’m Homer Simpson in front of those power plant panels with all those buttons to press.
Sorry about that. Due to various delays (both with myself and with the manufacturer I'm working with) the aluminum version kept getting pushed back, and I've been focusing on the 3D-printed version for the last couple of months. Should I separate that one out into a separate IC thread?
Post by: Realdrian on Sat, 07 November 2020, 22:56:37
patiently waiting
Post by: asmashedpumpkin on Sat, 07 November 2020, 23:23:57
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 27 November 2020, 00:51:36
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 28 November 2020, 02:22:14
I received a batch of 25 PCBs without microcontrollers (as JLCPCB had no available stock for the past 2 months), and managed to get my hands on about 30 STM32F072CBU6 microcontrollers. I'm going to have to hand solder the microcontrollers to the boards, and have managed to do so successfully on one of the boards as a test. This batch of boards will form the basis for Round 1 for the 3D-printed version, which will unfortunately be on the small side (I'm expecting to be able to offer 15-20 spots, depending on how many working PCBs I get out of this batch). GB will be done old school, through Google Forms and Paypal. Spots will be allocated via a mix of FCFS and raffle. Based on survey results, I'll be offering white, black, dark blue, and purple for the cases. I'll have more details for the GB (including dates), as well as pictures of the colors in a couple of days as I work things out.
I apologize for the small size of R1 - between issues with microcontroller availability and this being my first GB, I don't want to go larger for a first round. If it goes well I'll try to do a larger R2 as soon as possible afterwards. The PCB design is also open-source, and the 3D-printed case files are also available online on the Github repo for this project (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston), and you are free to use those files to build one yourself.
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 04 December 2020, 08:50:52
Post by: keyboardkrill on Sat, 05 December 2020, 03:19:41
Sorry - the update for the GB dates and other details is delayed, as I was in close contact with a coworker who tested positive for COVID, and have to isolate from others I live with for the next 2 weeks (and can't access my workbench except very late at night). I haven't been able to go through the PCBs and solder microcontrollers to them as a result, as the number of spots I can offer depends on how many working PCBs I have on hand.
Oh damn, hope you are doing well.
take care and be safe, bud. and try not to stress too much about gb. your health is more important than keebs. we can wait.
Post by: AKmalamute on Thu, 10 December 2020, 18:59:56
Aluminum is nice, but is there any chance of a "parts kit" run, with just the board and its controllers, then for download, the files for the aluminum? I could get quotes from Lasergist and maybe a local shop for a case in steel. Would cost 3x the aluminum I've no doubt but it sure sounds good.
Plus I can talk myself into getting a parts kit much easier than a whole CNC milled hunk of aluminum.
Post by: B3H3M0T on Fri, 01 January 2021, 22:23:23
1. 3d print
2. Sandwiches Acrylic with laser cutting
Post by: Exluna on Sat, 02 January 2021, 00:42:05
Watching!
Post by: Realdrian on Sun, 03 January 2021, 01:55:44
still dreaming about this board
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 03 January 2021, 17:54:14
Happy New Years! I thankfully did not seem to have caught COVID (I tested negative after 13 days of isolation), but unfortunately have been busy with work and some other stuff.
Updates so far:
- I still have plans to do a small 3D-printed/FR4 R1 (~15-20 units) in the near future. I have the PCBs and FR4 components for these on-hand, though I'm still soldering on USB ports to the PCBs and testing them. Unfortunately, virtually all FR4 components (plates, bottom panels with the map, and the bumpon holders) arrived from JLCPCB with small shiny blemishes on the matte black finish, so R1 will be unfortunately be entirely B-stock. I don't know where these blemishes are from (they aren't removable with water, acetone, or alcohol) - I suspect they're shiny spots caused by panels rubbing against each other during shipping. Sorry about that.
- I'm still soldering parts onto and testing PCBs. I have 11 working PCBs at the moment, and another 9 to finish soldering and test. Trying to finish this over the next week so I can figure out how many spots I can offer.
- No dates yet. Sorry.
- R1 PCBs are green and will have a couple of components soldered by hand by yours truly. All will be tested and flashed with a default firmware before being shipped.
- Other FR4 parts are matte black.
- Current plans for pricing (without shipping)
- $85 barebones (without 3D-printed parts, and you'll have to print them yourself)
- $120 (w/3D-printed parts)
- I still want to do an R2 as soon as possible after R1. Hopefully by then, the MCU availability issues will improve. I will also go through Elecrow instead of JLCPCB for the PCBs and FR4 parts, do PCBs in a more appealing color (most likely white or blue), and be able to offer A-stock and unblemished FR4 parts. Unfortunately, Elecrow is also more expensive so R2 may cost a bit more.
- Unfortunately I've been having a lot more issues with 3D-printing quality recently (possibly due to lower temperatures in my basement due to the winter), and have been spending some time trying to get the print quality back up. If this takes a while to resolve I might do barebones sales first.
- Due to delays in the manufacturer getting their anodization process set up, the prototype for the metal version unfortunately has also been delayed.
Post by: ehagerty on Mon, 04 January 2021, 02:09:37
Post by: mrvco on Wed, 06 January 2021, 11:07:45
Post by: mewse on Wed, 06 January 2021, 16:12:53
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 07 January 2021, 08:30:27
Very cool! Will the 3D printed and Aluminum cases be interchangeable?
They use the same PCB, but the plate and cases are different. So not really unfortunately.
Quote
I was going to ask about print volume required for the case
Right now, you need 200 long x 150 wide x 210mm tall mm . STLs are available on Github here (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D-printed%20case%20-%20parts/STLs).
Appreciate all your interest!
Post by: mattiemisfit on Mon, 11 January 2021, 17:58:42
Post by: CyCo on Tue, 19 January 2021, 19:34:14
Post by: lllchevy350lll on Sat, 23 January 2021, 08:53:37
Post by: Vardys on Mon, 25 January 2021, 17:59:13
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 25 January 2021, 23:05:17
any update on this limited run of b-stock?
Unfortunately I'm running into a lot of issues with my 3D printer as of late, and am still trying to get that resolved. It's a combination of colder winter temperatures (my printer usually lives in my basement) causing print quality issues and a lot of failed prints, and a lot of headaches with the BL-Touch bed leveling sensor I installed in December (which is giving me a lot of bed crashes and resulting print failures). So unfortunately no dates yet unfortunately, as I'm still working on getting that resolved. Sorry for things moving slowly. I do still intend to run a GB with the full 3D printed case in the near future.
Since getting the 3D printing back up to par is taking a while,
The PCBs for the above batch are green as JLCPCB at the time only offered green PCBs for PCBs with components soldered on. The plate and all other FR4 pieces are matte black.
[attachimg=1]
I have working QMK firmware for it with all the features I intended implemented (layers, layer indicator LED, and encoder), but I'm still waiting on the pull request to the QMK repo to get approved (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/pull/11273). QMK Configurator won't work until the pull request gets approved, so you'll have to compile firmware files manually through command line and editing keymap files at this time.
Future boards won't have green PCBs - I got a quote from Elecrow for fully-assembled PCBs with white solder mask and it's quite a bit lower than expected, so I'm planning on running future boards through them.
For the metal version - I'm working things out with an American machine shop and a vendor to run that board. Will have some updates on that soon.
Post by: lllchevy350lll on Tue, 26 January 2021, 12:50:55
any update on this limited run of b-stock?
Unfortunately I'm running into a lot of issues with my 3D printer as of late, and am still trying to get that resolved. It's a combination of colder winter temperatures (my printer usually lives in my basement) causing print quality issues and a lot of failed prints, and a lot of headaches with the BL-Touch bed leveling sensor I installed in December (which is giving me a lot of bed crashes and resulting print failures). So unfortunately no dates yet unfortunately, as I'm still working on getting that resolved. Sorry for things moving slowly. I do still intend to run a GB with the full 3D printed case in the near future.
Since getting the 3D printing back up to par is taking a while, if anyone owns or has access to a 3D printer, are willing to print their own case, and wants to purchase a B-stock barebones kit (PCB, FR4 plate, FR4 panels, feet, screws and other hardware, and rotary encoder, but no knob) for $80 + shipping, please send me a PM. I have around ~20 keebs worth of PCBs, plates, FR4 panels, and hardware. STL files and a STEP assembly file are available on Github here (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D-printed%20case%20-%20parts), with some instructions on printing in the manual here here (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D-printed%20case%20-%20parts/Draft%20instructions%20(barebones%20kit).pdf). The microcontroller, USB-C port, and a couple of small parts on the PCB have been hand-soldered due to JLCPCB's limitations. Each PCB is fully tested. I also don't have any knobs on-hand at the moment, but it's fairly easily to find STL files of knobs online to 3D print, or you can buy a nice metal knob such as these guitar knobs (https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/knobs/dome-knob.html) or this knurled aluminum one (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/kilo-international/OEDNI-75-2-7/5970341?s=N4IgTCBcDa5gbAWgCwEYAcBWRA5AIiALoC%2BQA).
The PCBs for the above batch are green as JLCPCB at the time only offered green PCBs for PCBs with components soldered on. The plate and all other FR4 pieces are matte black.
(Attachment Link)
I have working QMK firmware for it with all the features I intended implemented (layers, layer indicator LED, and encoder), but I'm still waiting on the pull request to the QMK repo to get approved (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/pull/11273). QMK Configurator won't work until the pull request gets approved, so you'll have to compile firmware files manually through command line and editing keymap files at this time.
Future boards won't have green PCBs - I got a quote from Elecrow for fully-assembled PCBs with white solder mask and it's quite a bit lower than expected, so I'm planning on running future boards through them.
For the metal version - I'm working things out with an American machine shop and a vendor to run that board. Will have some updates on that soon.
3d printed design is good though, if i outsourced the printing? and the fr4 panel included is the one pictured with the map on it?
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 26 January 2021, 15:35:21
The FR4 panel included is the one with the map on it.
Post by: Crabby on Tue, 26 January 2021, 21:51:44
Post by: eibbun on Tue, 26 January 2021, 22:03:51
Post by: TeacherGeek on Wed, 27 January 2021, 02:00:11
Post by: Katacalysm on Mon, 01 February 2021, 12:20:04
Also this is probably a dumb question (i'm new to custom keyboard stuff) but I assume single colour backlight support means that they couldn't be configured to act as the lock status LEDs?
Post by: hvontres on Mon, 01 February 2021, 12:25:02
Post by: Inner-Ear on Wed, 24 February 2021, 20:38:59
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 24 February 2021, 22:31:29
How do we get notified when the GB starts?
For the 3D-printed version - I'll post in this thread with some notice. If you want have access to a 3D-printer and want a B-stock barebones kit (PCB, plate, bottom panels, hardware) for the 3D-printed (see post above (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.msg3006394#msg3006394)) PM me as I still have quite a few of those.
It probably won't be at least for another couple of weeks, as unfortunately I've been very busy with work as of late and it probably won't let up for a couple more weeks. I did spend a couple hours tinkering with my Ender 3 3D printer, and unfortunately it does not home the Z-axis consistently anymore and has repeatedly either crashed into the bed or printed far too high above the bed, with no rhyme or reason to it. I need to reflash the firmware and/or possibly replace the bed leveling sensor on it (or just go back to manual bed leveling), but haven't gotten around to doing so. Sorry about that. Once the printer is back up and working reliably I can announce a GB date.
For the metal version - there's been some significant progress with the US shop and vendor I'm working with, and there will be an announcement (and proto pics) in the near future, but nothing I can share yet.
Post by: Dyto69 on Thu, 25 February 2021, 08:04:04
Post by: CitizenCypher on Thu, 25 February 2021, 15:15:43
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 25 February 2021, 16:20:15
Love the look of this board, and am eagerly anticipating have almost enough keys.
The ultimate question is...how many dollars per key?
Post by: CitizenCypher on Thu, 25 February 2021, 16:40:32
Love the look of this board, and am eagerly anticipating have almost enough keys.
The ultimate question is...how many dollars per key?
I mean, I'm already paying ~$1 per keycap, and probably $.50-$.75 a switch, so I've got keep my budget reasonable. For a full alu case, I'd be happy with ~$4 a socket.
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 25 February 2021, 17:27:54
I mean, I'm already paying ~$1 per keycap, and probably $.50-$.75 a switch, so I've got keep my budget reasonable. For a full alu case, I'd be happy with ~$4 a socket.
$4 a socket is WAY beyond my budget. :eek:
Post by: Realdrian on Thu, 25 February 2021, 21:06:23
How do we get notified when the GB starts?
For the 3D-printed version - I'll post in this thread with some notice. If you want have access to a 3D-printer and want a B-stock barebones kit (PCB, plate, bottom panels, hardware) for the 3D-printed (see post above (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.msg3006394#msg3006394)) PM me as I still have quite a few of those.
It probably won't be at least for another couple of weeks, as unfortunately I've been very busy with work as of late and it probably won't let up for a couple more weeks. I did spend a couple hours tinkering with my Ender 3 3D printer, and unfortunately it does not home the Z-axis consistently anymore and has repeatedly either crashed into the bed or printed far too high above the bed, with no rhyme or reason to it. I need to reflash the firmware and/or possibly replace the bed leveling sensor on it (or just go back to manual bed leveling), but haven't gotten around to doing so. Sorry about that. Once the printer is back up and working reliably I can announce a GB date.
For the metal version - there's been some significant progress with the US shop and vendor I'm working with, and there will be an announcement (and proto pics) in the near future, but nothing I can share yet.
Awesome to hear about the metal version!! I cant wait
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Sat, 06 March 2021, 16:18:51
Regardless, I'm really impressed with the design and I can't wait to start using mine :-)
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 07 March 2021, 16:08:19
Post by: long_qt_pie on Thu, 11 March 2021, 22:28:15
(https://imgur.com/a/0DnRTRg)
Post by: Virex on Fri, 12 March 2021, 00:12:32
Finally got to building mine, fun board to build!Show Image(https://imgur.com/a/0DnRTRg)
Looking Good, watching this space for more updates! You have my support!
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 12 March 2021, 00:26:33
Finally got to building mine, fun board to build!Nice, love the space cadet keycaps :)Show Image(https://imgur.com/a/0DnRTRg)
Post by: orb on Tue, 16 March 2021, 16:09:24
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 17 March 2021, 19:05:43
Finally got to building mine, fun board to build!Show Image(https://imgur.com/a/0DnRTRg)
Nice! Looks awesome!
Will there be split l-shift support? If so, this is definitely something I'd want to pick up!
The current PCB and plate support the UK-style 1.25u left shift and extra > < key, if that's what you're referring to.
Post by: LeoneShamoth on Wed, 17 March 2021, 20:00:34
Post by: NathanielGoodtimes on Wed, 17 March 2021, 20:29:37
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Thu, 18 March 2021, 14:52:29
Yeah, that'll definitely be an option. Sorry to hear the loss of 3D printer access.
Glad to hear it. Yeah my local library has a 3d printer but it's been out of commission recently waiting for some sort of repairs. I was able to get it printed elsewhere though so I'm going to build mine tomorrow - stay tuned! For me this design really has it all, 2u numpad '0', full 2x3 nav cluster, split spacebar and backspace, and all those programmable keys! I'm most excited for the split space though, I find it incredibly useful but it just doesn't seem very popular.
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Sun, 21 March 2021, 02:54:58
Thanks again Pylon!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210321/3b283d8eaf8c3dbb2a78b9df9d4db9c1.jpg)
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Post by: Starius on Mon, 29 March 2021, 09:55:33
Post by: Gaul on Wed, 07 April 2021, 09:11:32
Post by: LeoneShamoth on Thu, 08 April 2021, 21:27:55
Post by: VoodooBear on Fri, 09 April 2021, 14:23:08
Post by: warbosschoppa on Fri, 09 April 2021, 20:30:14
Post by: derpturtle on Fri, 09 April 2021, 22:55:22
Post by: Volny on Wed, 14 April 2021, 07:18:19
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 14 April 2021, 10:14:28
Definitely interested in this. I'm a heavy macro user, and already implement many macros using F13-F24 keys. They don't actually exist on my board, but I get my Stream Decks and programs like Autohotkey to perform various virtual gymnastics and talk to each other by simulating and/or listening for those keys to trigger different things. I started doing this when I ran out of 'real' hotkeys to use :D Having an extra row of F keys would be just great (whether to map to real F13-F24 keys to make my life easier, or to use in addition to them). I really like the efficient layout too.
I set mine up to have there layers for the upper F-keys. I use the three extra keys above the lock keys to switch between them and the RGB led as the layer indicator. For now I have them as F13-24 , cntrl+F13-24 and alt+F13-24
So far I have only used a couple of them, but I figure I'll find more uses as time goes on.
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Thu, 15 April 2021, 17:53:18
Love having the split space on a larger board, although I exclusively use my left thumb for space and would prefer the larger spacekey on the left. I'd love to hear what other split-space users think. I'm guessing allowing for both orientations would create a swiss-cheese PCB.
The sound of the 3-D case board is soooo nice, kinda reminds me of vintage keyboards with those giant plastic enclosures. I put Boba U4ts in mine and it's one of the best-sounding boards I have IMO, it really makes these switches sound great.
Another user mentioned the front of the case seeming a bit tall. I was about to respectfully disagree, but I just compared to the...uh....4 other keyboards within arms' reach (!) and it is indeed a bit taller than any of those. This board definitely has an imposing presence on my desk, although in day-to-day use it doesn't feel particularly tall to me. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Post by: spikedsynapse on Thu, 15 April 2021, 18:06:24
Post by: Inner-Ear on Thu, 15 April 2021, 20:21:35
(https://i.imgur.com/4Tu9arh.jpg)
Post by: StreetMeat on Thu, 15 April 2021, 22:20:12
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 21 April 2021, 23:25:24
How does one go about obtaining one of these beautiful monstrosities?? :D
I've been selling B-stock PCBs, plates, and hardware kits - the people you see in this thread who are posting have 3D printed their own cases. Unfortunately haven't done a formal GB for either the 3D-printed or the metal versions yet. I'm still working on both of them. I apologize for how long this is taking (it's approaching a year since I posted the IC).
I do owe all of you a longer update, which and I'll have something more detailed probably this weekend. I've been spending the past month trying to figure out FCC regulations around selling keyboard kits, and figuring out whether I need to run this keyboard through EMI/RFI compliance testing (which would entail significant cost and likely entail some changes to the project, including probably another redesign and some changes to the supported features and options). So far the regulations, FCC guidance, and past FCC rulings appear to be contradictory, and it's probably fine if I'm selling/running a GB for kits of the current design without testing if they require a substantial amount of assembly, but I'm still trying to figure out what I should do regarding this moving forward, as it might still be best if I get the board through FCC testing. These regulations also have broad implications upon the broader custom keyboard hobby. Again I'll do a more detailed post in a couple of days explaining these regulations and what I'm thinking about moving forward.
Post by: lush_bunny on Thu, 22 April 2021, 05:58:00
Nice work JucheCatgirlTS, Inner-Ear, and LeoneShamoth! Also really appreciate the build video you did LeoneShamoth!How does one go about obtaining one of these beautiful monstrosities?? :D
I've been selling B-stock PCBs, plates, and hardware kits - the people you see in this thread who are posting have 3D printed their own cases. Unfortunately haven't done a formal GB for either the 3D-printed or the metal versions yet. I'm still working on both of them. I apologize for how long this is taking (it's approaching a year since I posted the IC).
I do owe all of you a longer update, which and I'll have something more detailed probably this weekend. I've been spending the past month trying to figure out FCC regulations around selling keyboard kits, and figuring out whether I need to run this keyboard through EMI/RFI compliance testing (which would entail significant cost and likely entail some changes to the project, including probably another redesign and some changes to the supported features and options). So far the regulations, FCC guidance, and past FCC rulings appear to be contradictory, and it's probably fine if I'm selling/running a GB for kits of the current design without testing if they require a substantial amount of assembly, but I'm still trying to figure out what I should do regarding this moving forward, as it might still be best if I get the board through FCC testing. These regulations also have broad implications upon the broader custom keyboard hobby. Again I'll do a more detailed post in a couple of days explaining these regulations and what I'm thinking about moving forward.
I always thought that GB has been run and done! My interest has been re-piqued. Good luck with the regulations there.
Post by: Volny on Thu, 22 April 2021, 07:09:17
Post by: NathanielGoodtimes on Thu, 22 April 2021, 08:50:22
Post by: geauxflying on Wed, 28 April 2021, 21:12:00
Post by: jkongers on Wed, 28 April 2021, 21:16:55
Post by: Volny on Wed, 28 April 2021, 23:33:29
The KLE pic is inaccurate when it comes to the gap between the top 2 rows and bottom 5 rows. The KLE shows the gap as being 0.5u, while the prototype pics show it as being 0.75u (I measured in Photoshop). Given there's an extra top row to reach, could the gap be shortened to be more like the KLE? Or even shorter? (On the Corsair K100 I'm using at the moment, the gap seems to be ~0.2u)
Does the detailed Boston city map engraving add to the production cost? If so, can it be made optional? It looks pretty cool, and would be awesome for people who have an emotional attachment to that city, but that's bound to be a minority, and it's also visually busy. No matter what, this beautiful behemoth will cost an arm and a leg, so I'd rather pay for features I'll actually benefit from (or even just for an increased profit margin for you) than for an engraving that will just lie forgotten collecting grime on the underside.
The screws on the front - they're pretty ugly. And I can imagine thumbs occasionally bumping into them as they rest or slide across the keyboard. Could they at least be made flush with the case surface?
What color will the plate for the plastic version be? There's a lot of reflection coming off it in some of the prototype pics, suggesting it's metal or perhaps white. Any chance there'll be a dark/black option?
What does "single-color LED backlight support" mean exactly? Does it mean that every key can have an LED, but their brightness/on/off state can't be controlled independently? Or does it mean that there'll be some LEDs dotted around the PCB independent of the keys, providing a general glow? If it's the former, then will color be changeable in some way (as a single 121-key group, not per-key) or will the color be set in stone by the physical color of the installed LEDs?
Thanks
Post by: geauxflying on Thu, 29 April 2021, 12:35:07
I like that the case isn't anodized. It would be easy/inexpensive to get it coated locally and makes for a nice customization option for people.
My guess is that if you want to start selling kits, you could get cases, plates, and PCBs, foam, etc, put it on a website, people will buy it. I'd lean towards adding any and all options, QMK, VIA, USB, RGB, ABC, etc. - this looks like a board that people would want to use every day, not just add to their collection.
I agree with the previous comment that the Boston graphic likely doesn't add to many people's interest in this board as few people have any connection to Boston - 0.2% of Americans live there. It wouldn't stop me from buying it though. I would prefer a barebones kit, even to do my own anodizing seems like a fun customization option. Most cities have places that will anodize for people who don't want to DIY. You could also offer anodizing for a fee and probably make a very good margin on it (DIY anodizing isn't for everyone, most people don't have buckets of acid laying around, and you can get it done in batches much more economically, and make money on it...
Anyway, I want in the GB... I PM'd... will PM my contact info since I don't login here very often.
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 30 April 2021, 11:06:54
The KLE pic is inaccurate when it comes to the gap between the top 2 rows and bottom 5 rows. The KLE shows the gap as being 0.5u, while the prototype pics show it as being 0.75u (I measured in Photoshop). Given there's an extra top row to reach, could the gap be shortened to be more like the KLE? Or even shorter? (On the Corsair K100 I'm using at the moment, the gap seems to be ~0.2u)
It's a 0.5u gap on the 3D-printed version and on the newer metal version. The metal version pictures are of an older prototype with a larger gap. The KLE is also meant purely for displaying compatible layouts and is not meant to be representative of the gaps between clusters, though it happens to be accurate for that as of now.
Quote
Does the detailed Boston city map engraving add to the production cost? If so, can it be made optional? It looks pretty cool, and would be awesome for people who have an emotional attachment to that city, but that's bound to be a minority, and it's also visually busy. No matter what, this beautiful behemoth will cost an arm and a leg, so I'd rather pay for features I'll actually benefit from (or even just for an increased profit margin for you) than for an engraving that will just lie forgotten collecting grime on the underside.
The map does not add any cost on the 3D-printed version as it's made as a PCB. Solder mask, copper, and silkscreen are free on PCBs. I don't intend on offering a bottom panel without the map on that version. The metal version will not have the map, as I'll have to either silkscreen print it, engrave it, or laser etch it, which adds cost and results in another item to QC.
Quote
The screws on the front - they're pretty ugly. And I can imagine thumbs occasionally bumping into them as they rest or slide across the keyboard. Could they at least be made flush with the case surface?
I've thought about switching to countersunk screws, but I have concerns over how well countersinks will 3D print in the current orientation I print it in. I've also thought about switching from top mount to bottom mount to try to move the screws to the bottom, which is a possibility. If I have to do a redesign to get this FCC certified I will probably implement this.
Quote
What color will the plate for the plastic version be? There's a lot of reflection coming off it in some of the prototype pics, suggesting it's metal or perhaps white. Any chance there'll be a dark/black option?
It is matte black solder mask as of now. The early prototypes were done with silver (bare HASL-Leadfree), but the finish was kind of poor so I switched to black solder mask.
Quote
What does "single-color LED backlight support" mean exactly? Does it mean that every key can have an LED, but their brightness/on/off state can't be controlled independently? Or does it mean that there'll be some LEDs dotted around the PCB independent of the keys, providing a general glow? If it's the former, then will color be changeable in some way (as a single 121-key group, not per-key) or will the color be set in stone by the physical color of the installed LEDs?
The entire backlight is controlled as an entire block. You cannot turn individual keys on/off. Color is determined by the LED you solder in.
I like that the case isn't anodized. It would be easy/inexpensive to get it coated locally and makes for a nice customization option for people.
I plan on offering the metal version anodized, though raw aluminum may be offered as an option. The prototypes aren't anodized since I didn't want to pay for anodization on the prototype (I also personally like raw aluminum).
Also, I still owe an update on the FCC situation. It's taking me a while to write - apologies for the delays there.
Post by: lllchevy350lll on Mon, 03 May 2021, 09:53:07
Post by: Muad_Keeb on Mon, 03 May 2021, 10:08:20
Post by: lllchevy350lll on Mon, 03 May 2021, 10:51:15
Oh my! I didn't realize there were plates available. I've got a large-format 3D printer and a dream, how does one get in on a beta?
ask pylon if he has any more barebones kits
Post by: pepo2181 on Tue, 04 May 2021, 07:08:28
Put JTK Toxic to use...
sorry for the potato picture
(https://i.postimg.cc/8CrydF51/PXL-20210504-115933741-2.jpg)
Post by: Muad_Keeb on Tue, 04 May 2021, 07:52:59
So I've got one of the B-stock PCB kits but unfortunately I no longer have access to a 3D printer capable of printing the case for this bad boy. Since ordering a one-off from Shapeways is crazy expensive, will there be any option for ordering just a case during the GB, either metal or printed? I'm eager to build it out and start using it but I'm rather stuck at the moment until I can find a printer or until the GB starts.
Regardless, I'm really impressed with the design and I can't wait to start using mine :-)
Not sure if you got this done yet, but I'm happy to print and ship you one at cost.
Post by: xavierlh on Tue, 04 May 2021, 09:36:35
Post by: lush_bunny on Tue, 04 May 2021, 10:15:00
will this ever run again?
It hasn't even officially started yet.
Post by: mr.squishy on Tue, 04 May 2021, 23:05:12
~snip~
Where did you get that encoder knob? It would go perfectly with mine.
Post by: pepo2181 on Wed, 05 May 2021, 07:02:52
~snip~
Where did you get that encoder knob? It would go perfectly with mine.
It is a guitar knob from Xentric guitars, https://xentricguitars.com/products/guitar-accessories/ (https://xentricguitars.com/products/guitar-accessories/)
But that one in particular, I bought it from Xentric Guitars store at Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Xentric-Guitars-Ignite-Fluorescent-Guitar/dp/B08D6YLYR6/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&qid=1620215922&sr=8-11&srs=19543419011&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Xentric-Guitars-Ignite-Fluorescent-Guitar/dp/B08D6YLYR6/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&qid=1620215922&sr=8-11&srs=19543419011&th=1)
Post by: mr.squishy on Fri, 07 May 2021, 20:44:42
~snip~That is beyond rad! Thank you!
Post by: LaserCrafter on Fri, 07 May 2021, 22:22:36
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 10 May 2021, 22:38:06
Also admittedly I have been distracted a fair amount in the past month making and publishing force curves for switches, though I also believe that's been a more pressing need for the community as a whole, but I am going to pivot back to this project this week after I finish my taxes.
Post by: Alejo1707 on Fri, 14 May 2021, 11:41:12
Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk
Post by: 1MachineElf on Sun, 16 May 2021, 12:07:25
I love the map of Boston on the back FR4 plate - this seems to be THE end-game keyboard for playing Fallout 4.
Your assembly guide is impressively (!!!) detailed: https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D-printed%20case%20-%20parts/Draft%20instructions%20(barebones%20kit).pdf
Just today I learned about this keyboard from the DSS Late Harvest renders posted by NoPunIn10Did on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboardsUK/comments/n4ovcr/gb_dss_late_harvest_ukiso_in_base_kit_est/
Post by: thicthock on Sun, 16 May 2021, 15:25:12
Post by: eibbun on Thu, 20 May 2021, 22:02:01
Post by: Kuki on Tue, 25 May 2021, 02:51:38
I'm not really a fan of those "dinky" <80% boards, so this really is a welcome change!
Should go nicely with the KAT Space Dust i just preordered ;D
Post by: Hamptonn on Tue, 25 May 2021, 06:34:49
Post by: Vardys on Sat, 05 June 2021, 00:24:11
Post by: Volny on Sat, 05 June 2021, 03:33:40
Post by: illegal_emigrant on Sat, 05 June 2021, 16:59:43
Post by: Neely_12 on Sat, 05 June 2021, 20:44:57
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 10 June 2021, 15:14:57
Post by: asmashedpumpkin on Thu, 10 June 2021, 20:01:21
Post by: Realdrian on Fri, 11 June 2021, 01:09:13
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Thu, 17 June 2021, 13:00:23
EDIT: I'm an idiot and posted the wrong link yesterday. It's fixed now. Sorry folks!
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 18 June 2021, 00:36:07
I am aware that this IC thread is over 13 months old at this point and that this project is taking quite a bit of time to reach a proper GB. I am sorry for the lack of updates the past couple months. To be honest, this started off as a project while I was unemployed at the beginning of the COVID19 pandemic to make the keyboard I really wanted to use, and so the progress in the first couple months and making the prototypes was quite fast as I had a lot of time to devote to this project. However, I found a full-time job last fall, spent much of April and May doing force curve measurements of switches (https://github.com/bluepylons/Open-Switch-Curve-Meter/tree/main/Force%20curves), and with vaccines now widely available in the US and many things reopening here, I have had significantly less spare time to devote to this project. I am sorry that this is taking so long. That being said:
3D printed version:
- I am no longer planning on personally running and fulfilling a GB for the 3D printed version using my personal 3D printer and out of my basement as I originally planned to do. My life circumstances have changed where I don’t have the time/resources/desire anymore to personally manufacture and fulfill a GB as I was originally planning. I am sorry about this change of plans as I know many of you were holding out for this board and potentially skipped other GBs.
- I am talking to some vendors about potentially running a GB or in-stock sale for the 3D-printed version, but this will probably be several months out. I’ve pitched it to a couple of vendors in the past, with little success, but am talking to a couple right now. Hopefully I can announce something further down the line. If you are a vendor interested in running the 3D-printed version of this keeb, please let me know!
- The 3D printed version is fully open-source (files are here (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston) on Github), and on the CERN OHL-W license. Vendors, individuals, and others are free to run GBs or otherwise order parts and sell kits for the 3D printed version without my permission and without owing me royalties or fees of any type. The only major obligation imposed by the license is that if you modify or change the files/design in any way, that you need to open-source those modifications or changes. I am considering changing this to a less restrictive license such as CERN OHL-P, MIT, or BSD in the future, but am weighing that against the general interest in seeing derivative works remaining open-source. For now I am keeping the CERN OHL-W license.
- I reorganized the Github repo so its folder structure should make a lot more sense now. I also added a fastener bill of materials.
- I will put together better documentation and write an ordering guide so people can get PCBs, plates, and bottom panels, ordered from PCB manufacturers directly.
- I’m working on a version of the PCB (V0.6J) that can be fully assembled at JLCPCB so you don’t have to hand solder any surface mount parts on the PCB. I will also write an ordering guide for the JLCPCB version walking you through the ordering process for ordering the PCBs, plates, and bottom panels.
- I don't want to make any promises for when I can finish the above, but will try to get it done by the end of July.
- Note that most PCB manufacturers have an MOQ of 5.
- Long term I may do a redesign of the 3D printed version and add a daughterboard and switch to bottom mount to remove the visible screw heads (a common complaint), but this redesign is pretty low priority for me, and may not happen for quite some time.
Metal version:
- This is still alive, but has been moving slowly.
- This was unfortunately not the highest priority for the US machine shop I partnered with, and I still have not received a prototype for the design I announced last August (though one was machined and is currently in the hands of the machine shop, and I sent them a PCB and plate to put a full board together).
- Since it’s been almost a year since I redesigned the metal version, and I’ve learned a fair amount of keyboards, I decided to redesign this with a C3 daughterboard and with the slope built in. I’m still in the midst of finishing everything (the daughterboard routing and the PCB changes for the daughterboard still have to be done), but here are some quick screenshots of the work in progress:
(I apologize that these are not proper renders - I am no longer using Fusion 360, and I
do not know how to use Blender. Also, these do not have fasteners, bump-ons, etc. currently modeled)
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
- I am still working with said US machine shop, and they’re still going to be the ones selling the boards in the US. I may find vendors for sales outside the US.
Other serious complications for the project:
- As everyone is probably aware there is still a severe semiconductor shortage, and microcontrollers for keyboards are affected. The STM32F072 microcontroller I’m using is still very difficult to get these days, and the shortage does not look like it’ll improve in the near future.
- In general, digital devices operating over 9KHz (such as keyboards) can emit radio waves and cause interference, and there are legal limits to these unintended radio frequency emissions. Most custom keyboards are in somewhat legally questionable territory due to not doing radio interference compliance testing that is generally required of electronics by various regulatory bodies like the FCC and EU, to prove that emissions are under legal limits. This testing process is known as "Equipment Authorization" in the US. These tests are why pre-built keyboards, and other electronics such as phones, TVs, etc. have FCC and CE markings on them. Whether kits are required to be tested and authorized is a gray area, but if the manufacturer doesn’t test, the responsibility to test generally falls upon the user.
- Compliance testing and authorization generally costs upwards of $2,000 at a testing lab, and is often charged per attempt. The tests require special, expensive equipment (such as calibrated antennas, anechoic chambers, and spectrum analyzers), and so DIY testing is not a viable option.
- There are a few boards that have done FCC/CE EMI/RFI compliance testing and authorization, such as the NK65, CapsUnlocked boards, Planck, other Drop boards, and a couple of others, but:
- Most have been sold pre-assembled (with switches and caps - e.g. the NK65 Milkshake or Randomfrankp editions), so they are legally required to get tested with no exceptions.
- All of these are hotswap boards, and it is likely that the FCC considers the installation of parts without soldering to be too simple to qualify as a “kit” (see the Sparkfun article below)
- In the US, whether sellers/manufacturers of unassembled keyboard kits are required to do testing and get authorization is legally a gray area, and FCC guidance is contradictory. EMCfastpass has an article arguing that testing and authorization is required (https://emcfastpass.com/fcc-rules-kits-subassemblies/). Sparkfun argues that it is unclear in a 2012 article (https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/398), and currently sells kits without testing and authorization. Official (but non-binding) FCC guidance says kits should be tested before being sold (https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=20992&switch=P), while this FCC Order and Consent Decree (https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2012/DA-12-574A1.html) says that kits generally do not need to be tested by the manufacturer or seller.
- In the US, if the seller/manufacturer does not do testing, FCC regulations (under 47 CFR § 15.23 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.23)) require the person assembling the keyboard kit (i.e. you, the buyer) to do the EMI/RFI compliance testing. Obviously, given the huge costs, no one is doing this, despite the legal mandate.
- 47 CFR § 15.23 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.23) exempts from testing and authorization home-build keyboards that are built for personal use, not assembled for a kit, not sold or offered for sale, and built in quantities of 5 or less. This board would not fall under that exemption unless you build it from scratch using the files published on Github, rather than from any purchased kit.
- I’m still weighing whether to run the metal version of Boston through FCC testing and equipment authorization. It significantly affects the economics of the group buy, is unclear if it’s actually legally required on my end, and would likely lead to a price hike, but it would be ideal and remove some general legal issues for the end user. Given the metal case acting as a Faraday cage, it is very likely to pass on the first attempt.
- I am not familiar with radio interference laws and regulations outside of the US, but they are likely similar.
Post by: ktkintner on Fri, 18 June 2021, 01:12:24
Post by: Volny on Fri, 18 June 2021, 07:02:09
Post by: shutuphamish on Sat, 19 June 2021, 04:44:28
Post by: Doblki on Sun, 20 June 2021, 07:04:17
Post by: clik_clak on Sun, 20 June 2021, 07:35:51
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 20 June 2021, 15:11:24
Legalities aside, what are the practical consequences (if any) for a regular home user of the kind of radio interference you mention? Like, could they interfere with phone reception/wifi, or cause buzzing in audio speakers, or anything like that? Or is it basically an irrelevance, aside from the legal considerations?
To be honest I don't have much knowledge about radio frequency interference, but I believe all of those are possible. Keyboards do not use much power though (usually well under 2W, unless you have backlight or underglow) and I believe are unlikely to cause serious issues, but it's quite possible you exceed legal limits. The first Ultimate Hacking Keyboard prototype failed its EMI/RFI tests (https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/2017/01/20/the-first-sample-batch-and-emc-test). Of course you don't know unless you test, which is why testing is often legally required, but the tests are expensive, and most designers are unaware of EMI/RFI regulations.
For past boards - I know the CapsUnlocked 65 and the Drop Planck had to go through FCC and CE testing which delayed those respective group buys. The NK65 also went through testing (I emailed Novelkeys about it), but they don't display FCC markings on its case as they were planning on displaying it in software.
It is highly unlikely that the FCC will take enforcement action for not testing the board you built, but if the FCC clarifies that kit manufacturers do have to test (a reasonable position as it is unlikely end users will ever do testing, and these legal limits and requirements exist for a reason), failure for GB designers/runners to do testing may result in fines and mandatory recalls. This may significantly affect the customs scene in the future, and either lead to standardized PCBs and cases being sold separately by different entities (to legally qualify as "subassemblies" exempt from testing, rather than "kits", as discussed in the Sparkfun (https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/398) and EMC Fast Pass (https://emcfastpass.com/fcc-rules-kits-subassemblies/) articles), or GB runners pay for testing and authorization and raise prices. This would also push towards larger group buys (since testing is a fixed cost that can be spread out over many units) and make small group buys uneconomical.
Post by: Technofrikus on Tue, 22 June 2021, 01:33:04
...for my skidata relegendables
Wow. I didn't know these existed. They look fabulous! Quite the set price though.
Regarding the testing: if the rules change so that a kit (without switches and keys) is required to make these test i would think then other regulations regarding product security would also apply. I do this regulation stuff for a cargobike in Germany and there are many more regulations besides the radio tests so a CE sign can be put on the product. Not sure how that works in the US though. Hopefully this will not be necessary or legally enforced.
Post by: whizzard on Fri, 25 June 2021, 22:01:02
As far as complications mentioned.... not my place to say, really, but I wouldn't sweat the legal stuff so much as this is a hobby kit you are putting together. In my non-legal opinion, the spirit of those laws is for the likes of the NK65, Planck, and other "mass-produced" boards. If every single GB DIY keyboard had to go through all that testing, nothing would ever get released, and the hobby would be worse off for it. And if that is something that is holding up such a nice kit, that would be a shame. This is your project, and you need to figure out what you are comfortable with. I just don't want you getting lost in the weeds with all that stuff when at the end of the day you are making prototype kits. If you wanted to sell tens of thousands of fully put together products, that is different. That is just my two cents, and is not "legal advice". Those laws are intended to protect everyday consumers, but shouldn't stifle creative efforts and small-scale production in the specialist hobby groups.
Again, this is beautiful, and it is getting harder and harder to find monster-size keyboards in this community lately where everything is about getting smaller, and we are spoiled for choice in the 60-65% category. I don't even see many 75% anymore. I have a keyset just for a 120% or larger collecting dust for over a year just waiting for a GB like this.
Anyhow, good luck, and if there is a mailing list for the project that I didn't see in the post, let me know. I would like updates, even if they are slow coming. Awesome work! Oh yea, and I don't know what file type your models are in but I do know my way around Blender, and if I can help let me know.
Post by: IneffableCrab on Sat, 03 July 2021, 14:15:23
Again, this is beautiful, and it is getting harder and harder to find monster-size keyboards in this community lately where everything is about getting smaller, and we are spoiled for choice in the 60-65% category. I don't even see many 75% anymore. I have a keyset just for a 120% or larger collecting dust for over a year just waiting for a GB like this.For real. It's cartoonishly hard to find larger boards; I too have a 120% keyset that has been collecting dust in my closet for a little over a year now. :/
Post by: bkrownd on Sat, 03 July 2021, 15:10:22
250% or bust! :cool:
Post by: geauxflying on Sun, 04 July 2021, 13:05:31
A few comments about the build:
1) very impressed with how solid this is. It’s 3D printed, and it feels as nice as any other keyboard I have ever had, maybe best typing experience ever with the FR4 plate.
2) I had none of the issues with leveling that some other folks mentioned, I paid someone $75 to 3D print the case for me.
3) The instructions are excellent.
4) I think the “B stock” issue was that the plate for the numpad enter didn’t have a relief cut for the stabilizer. I just used a dremel and a small burr to cut a little rounded notch out.
5) I didn’t solder in hot swap sockets. My Kailh box pinks don’t fit well in mill max sockets and the PCB doesn’t support Kailh sockets (nbd).
6) The FR4 plate feels amazing to type on. I’ve never had an FR4 board before, I like it.
I may want to try building a custom case for it, maybe bamboo or something, but I really like the way it sounds in the 3d printed case.
The keycaps I used are a combination of KAT BoW and a B-stock kit of KAT milkshake (the milkshake kit was pretty bad, I couldn’t use a lot of it unfortunately). The
The 4th picture shows little stabilizer pads from UpgradeKeyboards.com. They are was easier than band-aid mods, and for $12 they send you enough pads to do LOTS of keyboards.
I really hope that the Aluminum version happens, this is a brilliant board. I think I will name it Botafogo (“fireboat”) after the Portuguese galleon of the same name!
Post by: geauxflying on Mon, 05 July 2021, 16:44:38
Post by: Realdrian on Mon, 05 July 2021, 18:06:39
Here’s a clip to give people the sound of this keyboard with my Kailh Box Pink switches. I really love the sound and the feel with the FR4 plate.
That's awesome, thank you. I love everything about this board. Hope the metal one is coming along :D
Post by: geauxflying on Wed, 07 July 2021, 10:41:49
A few comments
1) the rotary encoder doesn't work right now... (This is my first experience with QMK, and I'm learning that it is relative garbage, and I'm not a programmer so it's just taking me time to figure it out). I'm working on it, it's fun to learn about.
2) It's very similar to the default with the exception that I'm using a split space bar the MO (fn) key in the middle refers to layer 2. The only things on layer 2 right now are a num lock on the traditional num lock key, and a backspace where the right space bar is.
3) I changed the three keys between the numpad and the main keyboard to home/end/delete. I quickly found that I use them too much in normal typing not to have them close by.
4) Probably only need the "sleep" key at F13. No point to a wake key at F14 (hitting a key wakes the PC).
5) Things I might want to add:
- I still need to figure out macros... print screen should access Win + Shift + S, for example.
- Still need to figure out how to map special characters... §, £, ©, Σ
- Still want to figure out how to launch programs with a keystroke. A macro would work but there may be a more elegant way to do it. I'd like to make the Calc key open CalcTape, for example, instead of the windows calculator. CalcTape is far superior.
- I probably should map a map a reset button, maybe on Layer 2, but the button on the back of the keyboard is easily accessible.
- I might want to try the thing with shift keys that inserts parentheses when tapped. I don't need shift keys now though with the split space bar, so thinking about what else to map there.
- Would be nice to have a key to cycle through the say 3 most recent stamp tools in Acrobat DC (I'm guessing that this will be difficult to code).
As I figure out how to do these things, I can share bin files if anyone wants them. The board is beautiful to type on, sounds good, feels good, I just need to learn how to be a programmer to use QMK (although, I understand that there may be VIAL support coming soon).
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 07 July 2021, 23:52:44
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/847128084280508426/862547189799452712/unknown.png)
Note that Vial is currently in beta, and there may be bugs. Use at your own risk. The Vial firmware for Boston has also only been tested on the standard layout, and although alt layouts (ISO, WKL, etc.) are supported they have not been tested and may have issues. Please contact me regarding any issues or bugs.
The Vial firmware is available on Github here (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/Firmware%20-%20Vial). To use Vial, you will need to flash the boston_vial.bin file (using QMK Toolbox, dfu-util, or another utility). After you download and open Vial, Vial should recognize the keyboard, and let you remap keys. Note that you have to actually implement your changes in Vial you have to go to Security > Unlock, and hold down the security combo (Esc and Enter). This is a security feature to prevent unauthorized secret modification of your keyboard firmware.
Vial has a Discord server (https://discord.gg/6Ybrtvj6Ae) if you want to follow up on the project.
No other updates at this time.
Post by: geauxflying on Thu, 08 July 2021, 00:25:24
Post by: Volny on Sun, 11 July 2021, 07:15:37
I get that the plastic version won't have the optimal aesthetics and may not have the C3 daughterboard and such, but in terms of the key layout and the programmability potential, will it be functionally the same as the metal one, or may the metal one have superior features/dependability or something like that? Also, if most PCB manufacturers require a minimum order of 5, and you no longer want to faff around with doing a 3D-printed groupbuy, would you perhaps be willing to run a groupbuy just for the PCBs alone?
* you actually wrote "end of July", though I long ago learned that such statements must always be converted using the magic formula a=eℼ (where e=estimated time & a=actual time) ;) Don't take it personally, I apply that formula to everyone, including myself, and it almost always proves accurate (or overly optimistic).
Post by: whizzard on Sun, 25 July 2021, 20:19:07
Post by: Volny on Sun, 25 July 2021, 23:38:29
It knows to give the arrow keys some physical separation, but without the excessive wasted space of a regular full size, and without banishing the entire nav cluster to an inconvenient top corner like a traditional 1800.
And unlike all the hipster 60% boards it's smart enough to know that there's little practical benefit to conserving vertical real estate, so fully utilises that 2nd F-row while concentrating on conserving precious horizontal real estate instead.
The Boston layout simply makes more design sense than just about any other keyboard on the market IMO, at least for anyone who needs to do more than type a few emails. It should be the defacto standard rather than a niche outlier.
Post by: whizzard on Wed, 28 July 2021, 22:56:24
Totally. Also, aside from the quantity of keys in question, the Boston simply has the smartest layout of any keyboard I've seen.
It knows to give the arrow keys some physical separation, but without the excessive wasted space of a regular full size, and without banishing the entire nav cluster to an inconvenient top corner like a traditional 1800.
And unlike all the hipster 60% boards it's smart enough to know that there's little practical benefit to conserving vertical real estate, so fully utilises that 2nd F-row while concentrating on conserving precious horizontal real estate instead.
The Boston layout simply makes more design sense than just about any other keyboard on the market IMO, at least for anyone who needs to do more than type a few emails. It should be the defacto standard rather than a niche outlier.
Couldn't agree with your post more. I can't see a thing wrong with this layout. The directionals position and the three keys between the numpad and main keys are a great idea as well. They make a great spot for a delete key and macros. I can think of so many things that you could do with this board, and the extra F row could be a great re-legendable or artisan display row.
You can tell that the layout was not an afterthought and was definitely a focus of the design. I think the number of units this would sell would be very surprising as many of us would like a keyboard like this. Just staying positive and hoping for the best for this project and the designer.
Post by: wowaweewa on Thu, 29 July 2021, 07:50:45
Post by: Joojeh on Fri, 30 July 2021, 11:05:22
Post by: achingfingers on Mon, 02 August 2021, 06:14:52
Post by: Jaygles on Tue, 03 August 2021, 07:51:04
Post by: geauxflying on Wed, 04 August 2021, 20:39:21
Post by: sevennationarmy on Wed, 04 August 2021, 21:58:23
Post by: shuijiao on Thu, 05 August 2021, 00:29:19
Post by: Volny on Sat, 14 August 2021, 03:40:13
(https://bit.ly/3xL1pP0)
Post by: geauxflying on Sat, 14 August 2021, 23:34:15
Yeah, I don't have any emotional connection to Boston, but even I think the map design is really cool, and will make an already awesome keyboard even more special. Though I wonder if it would be even better with some thinner line weights in areas. Like if the red area in the pic below had line weights more similar to those the green areas. I get that the red area is obviously a downtown area and has wider streets in real life. But at this scale, with such a high contrast between line and background, the detail seems to get a bit overwhelmed. Still cool though!Show Image(https://bit.ly/3xL1pP0)
I like it as is... the reflective nature of it is striking with the bold lines. It's an art piece, more striking in person. Not intended to be a navigational aid.
I'm anxious to know if there will be any updates. Looking forward to the metal version if it happens, and curious if the 3d printed version will be run again. I know Pylon has been busy, but I hope this project stays alive - the 3D printed boards that I have are the nicest boards I have by a wide margin. Good work.
Post by: geauxflying on Sat, 14 August 2021, 23:57:36
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 17 August 2021, 00:32:59
Where things are at:
- 3D-printed version - a barebones kit has been sent off to a vendor, which they received. They haven't built it yet (they've been very busy) but hope to hear back from them soon about their thoughts and whether they'd want to run it. No other updates.
- Metal version redesign - currently focusing most of my available time getting this done. I'm a little stuck here visual design wise on how to get the angled bottom to be visually cohesive with the top - I'm a little unhappy with the visual cohesiveness and consistency between the various fillets, chamfered edges, and unchamfered edges on the bottom and side cutouts right now. I'm going to try modeling some other ideas later this week to see how they look, but might just end up going with the current design.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
I also thought about whether to add a USB 2.0 hub to the metal version (I have a daughterboard-with-hub design in mind, and tested out the circuit on a separate project). Leaning against it as I figure that this would be of limited utility on a keyboard this large, where accessing the back for USB ports would probably be pretty inconvenient. A 2.0 hub would also add at least a week of design time, and a 3.0 hub much more (3.0 USB-C connectors are a huge pain to route traces for). I'll most likely be using the C3 daughterboard then, despite my dislike for M2 screws (too small and easy-to-strip) that required to mount it. - PCB - layout is done on V0.6 and V0.6D, but still need to make the manufacturing files and do final checks. Still working on V0.6J (JLCPCB version). Apologies for missing the end-of-July target. Will get these prototyped once done.
- Firmware - I updated the Vial firmware (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/Firmware%20-%20Vial) to support Vial 0.4 features a while back (which added Tap Dance and QMK combos, and increased the number of layers available, ). No issues so far using it. Will update again if future releases of Vial add new features.
Post by: Technofrikus on Thu, 19 August 2021, 10:14:45
Looking forward to the alu version! Here is some input from me, in case you are interested: I would prefer the overhang of the top part to be either bigger or smaller. If it is bigger it looks more like it is floating. If it is smaller (not there) it looks like one big piece (like the 3d printed version). If it is there I would pull it down in the front so the front is only the overhang, without the lower part visible.
Regarding chamfers: why not chamfer "everything"? Not the overhang, but the angled bottom? This would be used to pick the board up, so a hard edge would not be that pleasant.
You are probably settled on the layout, but my small complaint about it is the white space on the right of the arrow keys. It not symmetric and looks not pleasant to me. Like a little accident. Maybe move the three keys a little to the right, add a fourth on the bottom and fill the gap this way? Not sure this would work. Or take a slice of the rect1800. They pushed the three keys to the numpad on the right. This works great as well.
Post by: IneffableCrab on Mon, 23 August 2021, 18:50:41
I'm a complete philistine when it comes to industrial design, but the bottom edge didn't really bother me in those renders.
- Metal version redesign - currently focusing most of my available time getting this done. I'm a little stuck here visual design wise on how to get the angled bottom to be visually cohesive with the top - I'm a little unhappy with the visual cohesiveness and consistency between the various fillets, chamfered edges, and unchamfered edges on the bottom and side cutouts right now. I'm going to try modeling some other ideas later this week to see how they look, but might just end up going with the current design.
It's also very reflective of the chaotic mess that is Boston's street layout. Trust me, I commute there every day.Yeah, I don't have any emotional connection to Boston, but even I think the map design is really cool, and will make an already awesome keyboard even more special. Though I wonder if it would be even better with some thinner line weights in areas. Like if the red area in the pic below had line weights more similar to those the green areas. I get that the red area is obviously a downtown area and has wider streets in real life. But at this scale, with such a high contrast between line and background, the detail seems to get a bit overwhelmed. Still cool though!Show Image(https://bit.ly/3xL1pP0)
I like it as is... the reflective nature of it is striking with the bold lines. It's an art piece, more striking in person. Not intended to be a navigational aid.(...)
But yeah, I do kinda agree that the line weight could be a little thinner in that area.
Post by: whizzard on Fri, 27 August 2021, 19:50:13
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 29 August 2021, 00:14:36
Looking forward to the alu version! Here is some input from me, in case you are interested: I would prefer the overhang of the top part to be either bigger or smaller. If it is bigger it looks more like it is floating. If it is smaller (not there) it looks like one big piece (like the 3d printed version). If it is there I would pull it down in the front so the front is only the overhang, without the lower part visible.
I tried changing the overhang to a seam and I actually liked how it looked. Definitely appreciate your suggestion! I will probably incorporate this into the final design.
This is how the metal version is looking right now - I played around with different side/bottom profiles and ended up liking this one. I'm still working on getting the design done (need to make the new plate, figure out the daughterboard mounting, slightly revise how the RGB LED indicator attaches, and make production drawings).
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/681193228078416006/879507745290731550/unknown.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/681193228078416006/879507794234064926/unknown.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/847128084280508426/878669381419286558/unknown.png)
Unfortunately I'm no longer on Fusion 360 (I don't want to deal with a subscription), Atom3D doesn't do renders, and my Blender rendering skills are nonexistent, so no renders yet - proto photos are much more likely than renders at this point.
You are probably settled on the layout, but my small complaint about it is the white space on the right of the arrow keys. It not symmetric and looks not pleasant to me. Like a little accident. Maybe move the three keys a little to the right, add a fourth on the bottom and fill the gap this way? Not sure this would work. Or take a slice of the rect1800. They pushed the three keys to the numpad on the right. This works great as well.
I've thought a lot about this, and unfortunately - there really isn't a good way to resolve this, keep the 2u numpad 0 key, keep arrow key separation, and have a good looking bezel.
Making it wider to add a 4th key to fill the gap results in uneven bezels elsewhere, and also makes the keyboard wider:
[attachimg=1]
The best solution layout-wise is actually to do something similar to the Evolv 75% (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=104531.0) and use a 1.5u Shift key to maintain even bezels while adding a 4th key to fill in the gap. Unfortunately, very, very few keysets offer a 1.5u Shift, and most people are going to have to drop a 1.5u Ctrl or Alt key in that position, which results in inaccurate legends, which will bother many people more than current awkward gap.
[attachimg=2]
You can do something similar with 2u left shift (similar to what 60%'s with arrow keys do, such as the GK64XS). More sets include 2u left shift than 1.5u Shift, but it's still not included in many sets. This also shifts the key stagger over 0.25u, and this makes ISO support awkward, so it's not a great solution either.
[attachimg=3]
I've also thought about putting something else in the gap, like a badge, but I'm personally just not a fan of badges (I dislike branding on the front of things like phones and keyboards), and I wouldn't really know what symbol to put on there (I can't think of any small, Boston-related symbols that isn't a copyrighted sports team logo). I've also thought about putting the RGB layer indicator there, but it's far away from the 2nd F-row where that light is supposed to indicate, and visually I think it's more useful higher up next to the second F-row. The Austin (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=102542.0) puts its lock lights there, but I don't want to just straight up copy that, and I also like the traditional 3 lock LEDs below the F-row.
In the end the gap doesn't bother me that much personally on the proto I've been typing on, and I'm really not a fan of the alternatives.
Re: the map on the bottom of the 3D printed version - those photos are a bit blown out as I photographed them outside. This is what it looks like in dimmer lighting:
[attachimg=4]
Most PCB fabs have a file-size limit for the manufacturing files they accept (e.g. JLCPCB has a 10MB file limit), and including extremely fine lines significantly increases the file size and export times unfortunately (the current files took ~14 hours to export from KiCAD). I can take another look at this though when I have time.
Post by: Volny on Sun, 29 August 2021, 08:46:07
Post by: geauxflying on Sun, 29 August 2021, 22:32:56
1. The space by the arrow keys is a total non-issue.
2. I’m not sure what the purpose of the LED by the rotary encoder is. It looks nice and doesn’t bother me, and that might be its only function (which would be fine).
3. More onboard memory could be good, and maybe a USB pass through. Not absolutely necessary though.
4. It could be a little bit lower in the front (probably not an issue for the metal case).
Overall the best keyboard I have used.
Post by: sabomov on Wed, 01 September 2021, 04:54:52
Post by: Inner-Ear on Fri, 10 September 2021, 15:36:11
Now if we could only get an ALPS version (hey, one can dream ;))
Post by: Jaygles on Fri, 01 October 2021, 20:59:30
Post by: vishydesigns on Fri, 01 October 2021, 21:14:11
Post by: Technofrikus on Sat, 02 October 2021, 04:34:14
I tried changing the overhang to a seam and I actually liked how it looked. Definitely appreciate your suggestion! I will probably incorporate this into the final design.
This is how the metal version is looking right now - I played around with different side/bottom profiles and ended up liking this one.
Wow, looks really good! Very glad my input was of value :)
And thanks for the detailed explanation regarding the small gap in the layout. The 1.5u shiftkey version would look perfect. But the kitting problem is a real one. So your solution is probably the best :) I agree with the badge, dont like them.
And great that you offer split spacebar! Love me a split :)
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 15 October 2021, 23:20:18
- I finished the new PCB revision for the 3D-printed version. I also put together an initial draft of the ordering guide (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D%20printed%20version) if you want to order parts for yourself. This has not been prototyped yet so order at your own risk. I plan to prototype the PCBs once I have the PCBs for the aluminum version done (the aluminum version now uses a daughterboard), hopefully later this month.
- The vendor I am in talks with is getting around to building a 3D-printed Boston this week (this was heavily delayed). No other updates for a vendor running the 3D-printed version, but hopefully will have something soon to announce on this front.
- Still working on the PCB for the aluminum version. The case is mostly done (and I have some quotes for the case). Trying to order this soon.
Post by: Volny on Sat, 23 October 2021, 02:37:01
This won't include the 3D-printed case, but only the PCB and its related items (plate, bottom map panel, bumpon holders). I'll probably order everything as lead-free, and black, except for the PCBs themselves which I'll probably order as green (to make it easier to see traces). I'll get the PCB pre-assembled with diodes and all that, but it won't have the microprocessor, as these are still out of stock at JLPCB. You'll have to order one yourself from somewhere like Aliexpress, like I did, and drag-solder it onto the PCB yourself.
I haven't ordered anything yet, and I make no promises about when or whether I will. But just letting you guys know in case someone doesn't want to order 5 and doesn't mind waiting a bit. If/when I do make an order, then I'll post again here with confirmation and more precise info.
Post by: Volny on Tue, 02 November 2021, 22:58:15
One person backed out so there's still 1 left. PM me if you want it.
All gone now.
I'll keep in touch with those 3 people via PM in the coming days/weeks, and I'll post here once I've received the PCBs from JLPCB to let you all know how it went. I can confirm that the ordering process itself was quite painless, thanks to Pylon's comprehensive guide.
OK, I've ordered 5 PCBs myself. I'll keep 2,
To be clear from the outset: I'm not a shop - I'm just a guy. I bought the keyboard for myself at the minimum quantity of 5, and want to offload the surplus to cover some of my costs (I'm not selling them at a profit but at cost, give or take a buck or two for rounding, including the cost of initial postage from JLPCB to me). I'm an honest guy, but I'm still just a guy. Once the PCBs arrive to me, I'll send them on to you asap, but don't expect frequent status updates, lightning-quick response times to PMs, or technical advice (I'm new at most of this stuff myself). I also won't accept any returns if something's not working. Pylon's ordering guide states that these have not been prototyped yet, and to buy at the purchaser's own risk - that risk applies to you just as it does to me!
Details below:
What is included: All FR4 parts only:
-PCB - the PCB will be assembled by the factory with SMT parts except the microcontroller and a fuse, which will both be missing (see below)
-Plate
-bottom (ie. city map) panel
-2x bumpon holders
....All the above are in Black lead-free HASL-RoHS finish.
What you'll need to source on your own:
-3D printed case
-All desired non-FR4 parts, as listed in Pylon's ordering guide (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/3D%20printed%20version), like screws, reset switch, rotary encoder, lock LEDs, etc.
-128kb STM32F072CB-series microcontroller. These are still out of stock at JLPCB so you'll need to buy one individually from somewhere like aliexpress (that's what I did) and drag-solder it to the PCB yourself. See Pylon's guide for compatible microcontrollers.
When:
-I've ordered these today, and JLCB estimates that they'll arrive to me in Australia within 10 days. If I post with economy post to USA/Europe, it will supposedly take another 2-3 weeks. So hope for them in early December, but it's 2021, so expect delays.
Cost per PCB (incl. plate, bottom panel, bumpons):
to Australia: $75AUD incl. economy shipping
to US: $72USD incl. economy shipping
to Europe: 65EUR incl. economy shipping
to UK: 55 pounds incl. economy shipping
...for other countries and/or faster (and more expensive) shipping, PM me.
Payment method:
If you want one, and I still have one that's unclaimed, PM me. I'll then give you my paypal email. Once I've received payment (and once the PCBs arrive from JLPCB) I'll post it.
Finally, a massive thankyou to Pylon for putting in all this work so that we can get our hands on this wonderful keyboard :) :) :)
Post by: windlabs on Thu, 04 November 2021, 02:56:39
Post by: Totoro on Thu, 04 November 2021, 03:35:46
This is an interest check for a compact 120% keyboard I'm working on, with a layout inspired by the Driftmechanics Austin (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=102542.0). This is the first custom keyboard I've designed, though I have a mechanical engineering background and have done other electronics projects before.Show Image(https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/master/graphics/bostonKLE.png?raw=true)
The original post is a bit outdated - please see this update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.msg3059822#msg3059822). I will update the original page when I have time.
There will be two case options - a CNC aluminum one, and a 3D-printed/FR4 one.
General Specifications:
- 121-keys - full-size + 18 programmable keys
- About 2u narrower than a regular full-size
- Traditional 2x3 Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn nav block
- Full-sized numpad with 2u "0" key
- ISO, split-backspace, split 0, and numpad = key support (on universal plate)
- Rotary encoder support, above the Esc key
- USB-C
- STM32F072 controller
- QMK and Vial support (Vial is currently in beta)
- Optional single-color LED backlight support
- Single RGBLED to indicate layer status
- Electrical schematic and firmware largely derived from the Austin. Case and PCB are different.
3D-printed/FR4 version:
- 4-piece 3D-printed case, with FR4 bottom panel. STL and STEP files are available on the Github here if you want to print it yourself - you need a minimum 200 long x 150 wide x 210mm tall mm build area, which is achievable by many budget printers (e.g. Ender 3). Prototypes were printed on an Ender 3.
- Colors depend on what color PLA/PLA+ filament I can have access to , but will probably be offering a variety of colors
- Top mount (technically, though an unusual implementation of it)
- FR4 plate only
- 6.5° typing angle
Sound test of the 3D-printed/FR4 version (with Cherry MX Clears,spring ends lubed with Permatex dielectric grease, rails lubed with u/hbheroinbob's Loob-3g, and filmed with Deskey films. Stabilizers are C3Equalz. GMK Bingsu installed)
IC Form specifically for the 3D-printed version only (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeIJ2jjQXNM53C7ovwoUKfZ9U1PVOrajU6r16sreuFScfQhMQ/viewform?usp=sf_link)
FCC 47 CFR § 2.803(c)(2)(iii) disclaimer:QuoteThis device has not been authorized in the United States as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased in the United States, until authorization is obtained.
Prototype pics of the 3D-printed/FR4 version (with OG Cherry WoB and GMK Neon RGBY mods)
(Attachment Link)Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250894;image)Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250896;image)Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250898;image)Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250900;image)Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250902;image)
(the one on the left is an older aluminum prototype)Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106501.0;attach=250904;image)
CNC aluminum version
The design for the aluminum version is being reworked again - please see this update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.msg3059822#msg3059822). I will update the specs below once that design is done, but the older specs are below:
- 3-piece CNC aluminum case, with
bottom brass weight(edit: due to the size of the keyboard it's more than heavy enough with everything made out of aluminum, so a brass bottom is unlikely at this point)- Top-mount
- Knob will be underlit with an RGBLED, to indicate layer status (or whatever other purpose you want to use it for)
- Tentatively intending to offer clear (silver) and black anodization, which were the two most requested colors. Dark gray was the third most requested color on the old IC form, and might also be offered.
- Brass plate. This was by far the most popular requested plate material. I'll publish plate DXF files if people want to make plates using other materials.
- 6.4° typing angle. 0° with the bottom weight removed (there will be bumpon cutouts for 0° if so desired.
Thanks everyone for filling out the IC Form on the aluminum version. I've gotten more than enough feedback on that one, so I took down the IC Form for the aluminum version.
I apologize for not having keycaps or fasteners, and for the generally rushed nature of the renders below. I'm not great with renders, and I've been very busy lately and would prefer to spend time either working on the design or the prototypes. I'll update these with prototype pics once it's built.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
With black mid and bottom pieces:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Pictures of the older aluminum case (this was an older design that put the controller on a separate PCB. This particular proto is also missing its RGB indicator light and its rotary encoder). I will not be running this:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The layout for this was inspired by the Austin and also by the 7-row Thinkpad keyboard (http://www.notebookreview.com/picture/?f=60846) you find on Thinkpads of the T420 generation and older. The name is somewhat a pun off Austin since the layout is derived from it, and because I grew up (and currently live) near the city Boston, Massachusetts.
This project uses the open-source Acheron library from the Acheron project (http://acheronproject.com/). KiCAD PCB files are available at my Github below. STL files and STEP files of the 3D-printed version are available here below under the CERN OHL-W (which is fairly permissive), and you are free to use the files to make one yourself. Unfortunately, due to arrangements I'm working out with my manufacturer and vendor, it is unlikely that the metal case will be open-sourced as originally planned.
https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston
Unfortunately,
Many thanks to Gondolindrim for the Acheron project and for feedback on the early PCBs, and to the designers of the Driftmechanics Austin (Driftingbunnies, PheonixStarr and Gondolindrim) from which this was derived. Also thank you to all 129 people that filled out the old IC form - your feedback was definitely appreciated. At this point I've collected more than enough data, so I took down the form.
MouserPounder made a signature graphic if people want to put these in their signatures (this has a picture of the older prototype)Code: [Select][url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0][img width=304 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/LYOA5Fp.jpg[/img][/url]
(post revisions)
May 20, 2020 - Initial post
May 20, 2020 - Replaced renders with ones that accurately depict the seam in the middle
May 29, 2020 - Moved F-keys over rightward slightly. Bottom weight is now aluminum instead of brass as the keyboard is pretty heavy to begin with.
June 2, 2020 - Corrected some references to the Austin
June 19, 2020 - Added pictures of prototype (without LEDs or rotary encoder installed)
June 20, 2020 - Added signature link that MousePounder made
July 4, 2020 - Updated signature link
July 12, 2020 - Reorganized feature list, added plate files to Github
August 16, 2020 - Shortened title
September 3, 2020 - Revised post significantly. Removed a lot of outdated info. Added pictures of the 3D-printed version
September 5, 2020 - Fixed required build area to 3D print the case (I overstated the necessary build area). Added some rough tentative pricing for the 3D-printed version. Added IC Form for 3D-printed version.
October 12, 2020 - Added sound test of the 3D-printed version.
January 25, 2021 - Some minor edits, added top pictures of the 3D printed version
February 5, 2021 - Updated the IC in general, removed a lot of out-of-date info. Changed license to CERN OHL-W.
March 27, 2021 - Removed prices
April 11, 2021 - Added FCC disclaimer
gooood
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 11 November 2021, 21:20:48
Various updates:
- On V0.6J - on the original guide, chip U702 (the linear regulator that converts 5V to 3.3V for the STM32 chip) was specified as AMS1117-3.3. Unfortunately, my friend pointed out that the ESR on the output capacitors may be too low for the voltage regulator's output to be stable (the datasheet says to use a tantalum capacitor, which has much higher ESR than the ceramic capacitors I used). This might still work fine (Austin makes a similar mistake and works ok, and I also built a prototype Boston with a similar mistake, and that board is being used to type this post). However, if you run into issues, I would recommend swapping U702 out for TI's TLV1117LV33DCYR, TLV1117LV33DCYT, or Diode Inc's AP7361C-33ER-13, which are stable with the low-ESR ceramic capacitors used on the design. The ordering guide and the BOM files have been updated and now specifies TI's TLV1117LV33DCYR for U702. Sorry about this.
- I received a prototype case from SuNPe, in raw unfinished aluminum. I still haven't sent out the PCB or plate order though as I'm wrapping up a few things on the design, so I'm still at least 2 weeks out on those parts. I unfortunately have various issues with the quality of this prototype (the top is about 0.5mm longer than the bottom despite matching in CAD, and although raw aluminum is quite soft and easily scratched, the number of scratches overall is pretty concerning in terms of how they might be handling the cases, which would not be acceptable in a group buy). I was hoping to offer a raw aluminum option, but seeing how scuffed it is that is unlikely without some major waivers/disclaimers.
- As mentioned, still wrapping up design on the metal version's PCB, plate, and daughterboard. The daughterboard is compatible with the C3 Universal Daughterboard (same footprint, pinouts, etc.), though I'm making some minor tweaks to try to get better EMI performance (in case I need to run this through FCC or CE emissions testing).
- No updates from the vendor on a GB for the 3DP version unfortunately
Pics of the case:
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
I'll be ordering a second prototype with a standard matte bead-blasted finish with anodization after I build this one up and get some time on it. I'm debating trying to laser etch the map of Boston on the back of the metal one - this would be really nice, but I'm pretty worried about whether it'll come out well, and it would add cost and be another item to QC. I've seen some pretty good quality laser marks on other items I own (e.g. my Motu M2 audio interface's items are all lasered, and the quality is excellent), but am not sure how to replicate it.
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 11 November 2021, 21:25:49
[attachimg=1]
Post by: beigeandbrown on Thu, 11 November 2021, 21:42:57
Post by: NP3 on Thu, 11 November 2021, 23:38:02
Post by: Jaygles on Fri, 12 November 2021, 07:48:05
Would the feet be easily replaceable?
Post by: Realdrian on Fri, 12 November 2021, 12:58:54
I would honestly like a raw machined finish
Same here! it looks so nice! I wouldn't mind any scuffs. Wow I love it
Post by: Volny on Sun, 14 November 2021, 17:34:39
I've also ordered some replacement voltage regulators, as mentioned in Pylon's above post, so will throw one in to the PCBs I send.
Still one left!
Post by: whizzard on Sun, 14 November 2021, 21:03:18
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 16 November 2021, 23:26:12
I also really like raw machined aluminum in general. It might end up as an option if I can have the manufacturer handle it better, and likely with a disclaimer that you will accept the risk of your case arriving with scratches. I also could look into anodizing over raw aluminum, though it won't end up as shiny with anodizing over it.
Would the feet be easily replaceable?
They're standard adhesive rubber feet.
Also as a shoutout - GMK Relegendables+ (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=115312.0) is currently in group buy, and is an excellent option for filling out the 18 extra macro keys on Boston, as they're all R1 profile and work great on the second F-row. I have relegendable keys on many of the photos of the prototypes shown, and the ones the GB are for identical caps. (I got my current set of black relegendables off an old Cherry G80-8200HUAUS-2 board).
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 17 November 2021, 04:23:15
Good point on the relegendables. I've been intending to use all that real estate for novelties and artisans, nevertheless it would be good to have some relegendables on hand.
Post by: scapegoat4 on Wed, 24 November 2021, 03:51:04
Post by: jivex5k on Mon, 29 November 2021, 04:36:39
Post by: lllchevy350lll on Mon, 29 November 2021, 09:48:16
Also, as mentioned above, what is the light for next to the rotary encoder?
Post by: neru on Mon, 29 November 2021, 10:26:20
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 29 November 2021, 22:32:44
any update on a metal case version? i really like the 3d printed version, but a nice premium aluminum case would only make this better.
Sorry I still need to send out the PCB order for the metal version PCBs and FR4 plates. I keep catching small details on the PCB and plate that were missed that needed correction, which was what I spent last week doing, and am going to run final checks this week (hopefully nothing else turns up).
Also, as mentioned above, what is the light for next to the rotary encoder?
It's an RGBLED - it's currently a layer indicator (which is implemented in the default firmware but required some custom QMK code) in case people want to run the macro keys on different layers and have an indicator of what layer they're set to, but other than that I have not used it for anything else.
May I ask how much did you pay for prototyping the CNC alu case, I am interested in this board, let me know the price since I would love to make the alu case. Though if it is out of my budget, I could still do the 3d printed one. ;D ;D
The proto case was run through SuNPe and cost me about $470 after shipping and fees. There's some minor quality issues (e.g. use of ball end mill passes for the 45° chamfers, and some tolerancing issues) that I need to resolve, and I would like an anodized prototype at some point, so I will be getting a second proto after I assemble and use the first one.
Post by: neru on Tue, 30 November 2021, 06:05:35
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 30 November 2021, 07:14:13
Post by: hussar_name on Tue, 30 November 2021, 08:27:35
Currently there is no option to purchase a full layout keyboard with qmk, except maybe from GON.
Thanks for considering this.
Post by: lllchevy350lll on Tue, 30 November 2021, 22:42:38
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 02 December 2021, 09:43:31
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 02 December 2021, 09:49:01
Hello pylon, would you consider also adding a 100% standard layout version, if this project goes on?
Pretty unlikely as I'm busy with a couple of other projects right now.
Have you checked out the Dino104? There's also the Austin, though that's not a traditional full size. There's also QMK-compatible controller replacements (e.g. Black Petal) for some Filco and Rosewill full-sized boards. There's also open-source replacement PCBs for the G80-3000, and there's also the NKBM-ST110r2.1 replacement PCB for Filcos and Rosewills (though that requires working with text-only QMK)
Post by: hussar_name on Thu, 02 December 2021, 10:27:34
Hello pylon, would you consider also adding a 100% standard layout version, if this project goes on?
Pretty unlikely as I'm busy with a couple of other projects right now.
Have you checked out the Dino104? There's also the Austin, though that's not a traditional full size. There's also QMK-compatible controller replacements (e.g. Black Petal) for some Filco and Rosewill full-sized boards. There's also open-source replacement PCBs for the G80-3000, and there's also the NKBM-ST110r2.1 replacement PCB for Filcos and Rosewills (though that requires working with text-only QMK)
Post by: Technofrikus on Thu, 02 December 2021, 10:31:32
Unfortunately the PCBs and prototype will likely be delayed as I fractured my right arm in a bike crash. I'm going to see how well I can solder with my left hand, but it may be delayed several weeks until things heal up.Damn! That sucks
get well soon!
Post by: hussar_name on Thu, 02 December 2021, 10:51:08
Post by: Volny on Thu, 09 December 2021, 06:45:12
My main criticism of the design, and it's a fairly minor criticism, is that I wish that the gap between the top 2 rows and the rest was 0.25u instead of 0.5u. Many 100% keyboards use a 0.25u gap here, so an extra-wide 0.5u gap seems a pity on a keyboard that already contains an extra back row that must be reached. Actually, this turned out to be much less of a problem than I feared it would be, although I have long fingers so others may feel the gap more.
The placement of the 3 indicator LEDs seems a strange design decision to me. When I saw that one of them was directly above numlock and one was directly below scrolllock, I naturally assumed that those 2 LEDs would correspond to those keys, with the 3rd (leftmost, hence closest to the alpha keys...) LED corresponding to capslock. Yet the way they're setup in the default firmware (and physically marked on the PCB) is different: the LED next to numlock is for scrolllock, the LED below scrolllock is for capslock, and the leftmost LED is for numlock. This feels unintuitive to me. It's not a big deal though, as you can swap them around in QMK if it bothers you. I personally don't even use those LEDs, as I don't use the scrolllock function, I've eradicated all numlock functionality from my system (I got sick of certain programs always switching numlock without my permission so replaced it with a customised numlock-like layer in QMK that those programs can no longer touch), and I've programmed QMK to display the capslock status on the RGB light anyway. That RGB light is great. It's in a good spot where it's conveniently visible but unobtrusive. Apart from capslock, I also use it to show when certain layers are active or when a dynamic macro is being recorded.
Once everything added up, buying the parts at JLCPCB ended up more expensive than I initially expected. But the process of ordering the parts itself was painless, largely due to Pylon's excellent instructions. Pylon's thoughtfulness comes through in other areas, too, such as the helpful markings on the PCB. For example, little arrows guide you to where to put switches/stabs for the myriad variations (eg. 1.5u ctrl vs 1.25 ctrl, or 6.25u spacebar vs 7u spacebar), which makes the installation process less error-prone.
JLCPCB is/was sold out of the MCU, so I had to buy the MCU separately on Aliexpress and drag-solder it in myself. To others who are new to drag-soldering MCUs like I was, my advice is to make sure you have good magnification! I wrecked my first MCU because I thought I could adequately see what I was doing, but I was wrong. On my first attempt, I used a desk-clamp magnifier that's more than enough for soldering switches, diodes etc. But the MCU is so tiny that it was still pretty hard to line up the pins correctly and spot soldering errors. After reworking the soldering job too many times, I ended up bending the pins all over the place and eventually snapping one off. So I had to order another MCU, and this time I also bought a better magnifier. Nothing fancy - just this $30 one (https://www.jaycar.com.au/led-headband-magnifier/p/QM3511). It only provides slightly more magnification than what I already had, but that slight increase made all the difference. Lining up the second MCU was a breeze, and I immediately realised how limited my visibility had been the first time. When you can properly see what you're doing, drag-soldering is pretty easy, with the flux doing most of the work for you. Remember to use a very light touch lest you bend the pins.
I'm finding the layout to be great. As I mentioned, I'm using 1.25u keys for the nav cluster trio, which I've mapped to HOME, END, and DEL. Not only do the 1.25u keys fit very well aesthetically in this area, but the increased size makes them very comfortable to hit with your pinky. I use DEL a lot, and using a 1.25u version feels like this is how big it should always have been. The little 0.25u gap around the arrow keys is excellent too. I was initially sceptical whether such a small gap would isolate the arrow keys sufficiently (compared to a 100% style keyboard where the arrows live in their own separate spot), but I'm finding the 0.25u gap to be perfectly adequate. My fingers gravitate to and locate the arrows effortlessly, even though my muscle memory has never experienced this exact layout before.
Thanks again Pylon for this awesome workhorse of a keyboard, and I hope your arm heals quickly!
Post by: highdocc on Thu, 09 December 2021, 07:08:05
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 10 December 2021, 05:19:20
Thanks Volny for taking the plunge! Let me know how it goes!
Various updates:More
- I received a prototype case from SuNPe, in raw unfinished aluminum. I still haven't sent out the PCB or plate order though as I'm wrapping up a few things on the design, so I'm still at least 2 weeks out on those parts. I unfortunately have various issues with the quality of this prototype (the top is about 0.5mm longer than the bottom despite matching in CAD, and although raw aluminum is quite soft and easily scratched, the number of scratches overall is pretty concerning in terms of how they might be handling the cases, which would not be acceptable in a group buy). I was hoping to offer a raw aluminum option, but seeing how scuffed it is that is unlikely without some major waivers/disclaimers.
- As mentioned, still wrapping up design on the metal version's PCB, plate, and daughterboard. The daughterboard is compatible with the C3 Universal Daughterboard (same footprint, pinouts, etc.), though I'm making some minor tweaks to try to get better EMI performance (in case I need to run this through FCC or CE emissions testing).
Pics of the case:
(Attachment Link)
I'll be ordering a second prototype with a standard matte bead-blasted finish with anodization after I build this one up and get some time on it. I'm debating trying to laser etch the map of Boston on the back of the metal one - this would be really nice, but I'm pretty worried about whether it'll come out well, and it would add cost and be another item to QC. I've seen some pretty good quality laser marks on other items I own (e.g. my Motu M2 audio interface's items are all lasered, and the quality is excellent), but am not sure how to replicate it.
Is this prototype different from the original open-sourced design? Or has the open-sourced design also be updated?
Post by: Crabby on Fri, 10 December 2021, 14:19:07
Post by: yukitoki on Tue, 21 December 2021, 17:23:13
Post by: lllchevy350lll on Wed, 22 December 2021, 12:34:38
Unfortunately the PCBs and prototype will likely be delayed as I fractured my right arm in a bike crash. I'm going to see how well I can solder with my left hand, but it may be delayed several weeks until things heal up.
Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon! Happy holidays and happy new year from all us Boston lovers!
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 25 December 2021, 14:49:58
Some minor updates:
* The PCB design for the metal version is done. I'm doing some unrelated work on my force curve meter's PCB, and will send the PCB prototype order out once that's done. Soldering the MCU might be tricky with the current state of my right arm, but I'll give it a shot.
* The vendor that is interested in running the 3D printed version is currently unfortunately inundated with work right now, and I won't have an update from them until mid-late January
* Volny discovered an error in the QMK files where the 1u + and 1u = buttons were reversed. This will only affect you if you aren't using 2u numpad +. I'm planning on taking a look at and fixing this later this weekend.
Post by: iamtragic on Sun, 26 December 2021, 21:40:56
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Fri, 31 December 2021, 22:27:58
Post by: schrobie on Sun, 02 January 2022, 11:12:52
Post by: Micktrinus on Sun, 09 January 2022, 13:48:35
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 15 January 2022, 16:38:12
I really like the new metal case design, can't wait! I have a couple nice aluminum TKLs now but the Boston is still my everyday board at my home PC. I just swapped the U4Ts out for Cherry MX Blacks, here's a quick video to ring in the new year:
Oh nice! Thanks for doing the sound test. I like the various flag color schemes you got going.
Wow, this thing is big. Has the price been hinted at anywhere? I love that you released the 3d printer files!
Unfortunately for the metal one it's probably going to be on the higher end as it's a huge board. Probably at least $400, but I don't have final numbers yet - I still need to choose a final manufacturers and get more quotes for this. SuNPe for the proto was relatively cheap, but I'm somewhat concerned about the quality from them given how scratched the proto was and from other reports about them (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106462.msg2907829#msg2907829). I have quotes from Dadesin, but their quote was pretty high (almost $200 higher than SuNPe in quantity 30), and with the current 25% tariffs it would be quite tough to do this for under $600 with them. However, their quality is pretty good (and a lot of keyboard GBs are run through them).
I should have better numbers once I test the prototype and get more up-to-date quotes, and work things out with the vendor.
Post by: whizzard on Wed, 19 January 2022, 00:23:05
Post by: copper4eva on Sun, 23 January 2022, 09:08:12
Post by: Epsilon Plus on Wed, 26 January 2022, 16:47:08
Post by: nickyteddy on Mon, 31 January 2022, 05:32:10
Post by: rice97 on Sun, 13 February 2022, 01:09:56
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 13 February 2022, 20:45:47
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
I maybe do a sound test later this week. The switches were lubed a bit inconsistently though so I may do more work on it, but it's enough to evaluate the proto.
Moving forward, I need to:
- Get a second case proto with a sandblasted, anodized case. I also plan on fixing some minor issues on the 2nd proto (the front bumpon pocket is a little too small for instance). This may be with a different manufacturer (I used SuNPe for the proto).
- Figure out FCC/CE EMI testing and get some quotes with some testing labs. I wrote up about EMI testing laws and regulations (and the likely dubious legal status of most custom mechanical keyboards) on Keebtalk (https://www.keebtalk.com/t/your-custom-keyboard-is-probably-illegal-a-long-post-on-radio-interference-testing-regulations-and-keyboards/16104). I would like to comply with those laws and regulations and actually do the interference testing. This adds time, complexity, and quite a bit of cost, and imposes a bunch of constraints (e.g. I might have to sell this with a fixed layout plate to avoid testing every layout configuration, which would add a lot of testing costs, and have open-source universal plate files published online that people would have to get cut themselves if they want to). This may also cause issues with international availability - the US, EU, and Canada have separate EMI testing regulations and require different tests to legally sell keebs in their jurisdictions, and it likely won't make financial sense to get approval with every jurisdiction (e.g. I received a $3000 quote for CE testing for Europe, and I'm not particularly confident I can make that $3000 back in EU sales). It may end up being US restricted if I only pay for FCC testing (which is still likely $2000+), and you'll have to find a 3rd-party proxy/forwarder or something if you're trying to get this from abroad (e.g. I can't legally sell directly in Europe without CE testing). If these constraints are too problematic (or if the testing ends up simply being too expensive), I am considering just open-sourcing the files metal version and writing up an ordering guide just like the 3D printed version, which would probably preclude a group buy or other sale.
- Compile a final bill of materials, and figure out pricing.
- Work things out with a vendor (there's been some tentative talks with a vendor but nothing's concrete yet).
- There's a chance I run this in-stock, though this is still TBD.
Post by: CoyoteMegalo on Mon, 14 February 2022, 01:09:47
Moving forward, I need to:
- Get a second case proto with a sandblasted, anodized case. I also plan on fixing some minor issues on the 2nd proto (the front bumpon pocket is a little too small for instance). This may be with a different manufacturer (I used SuNPe for the proto).
- Figure out FCC/CE EMI testing and get some quotes with some testing labs. I wrote up about EMI testing laws and regulations (and the likely dubious legal status of most custom mechanical keyboards) on Keebtalk (https://www.keebtalk.com/t/your-custom-keyboard-is-probably-illegal-a-long-post-on-radio-interference-testing-regulations-and-keyboards/16104). I would like to comply with those laws and regulations and actually do the interference testing. This adds time, complexity, and quite a bit of cost, and imposes a bunch of constraints (e.g. I might have to sell this with a fixed layout plate to avoid testing every layout configuration, which would add a lot of testing costs, and have open-source universal plate files published online that people would have to get cut themselves if they want to). This may also cause issues with international availability - the US, EU, and Canada have separate EMI testing regulations and require different tests to legally sell keebs in their jurisdictions, and it likely won't make financial sense to get approval with every jurisdiction (e.g. I received a $3000 quote for CE testing for Europe, and I'm not particularly confident I can make that $3000 back in EU sales). It may end up being US restricted if I only pay for FCC testing (which is still likely $2000+), and you'll have to find a 3rd-party proxy/forwarder or something if you're trying to get this from abroad (e.g. I can't legally sell directly in Europe without CE testing). If these constraints are too problematic (or if the testing ends up simply being too expensive), I am considering just open-sourcing the files metal version and writing up an ordering guide just like the 3D printed version, which would probably preclude a group buy or other sale.
- Compile a final bill of materials, and figure out pricing.
- Work things out with a vendor (there's been some tentative talks with a vendor but nothing's concrete yet).
- There's a chance I run this in-stock, though this is still TBD.
Hey, thanks a lot for news!
So, you will not sell this badboy in EU? Maybe via an european proxy?
This CE testing is very expensive and I understand you'll follow the rules ;)
Post by: geauxflying on Tue, 15 February 2022, 09:49:30
I have a question about ordering - it looks like the MCU is what determines how much memory is available for things like macros. I'm running out of memory for macros on my board, so I'm curious if there's a compatible MCU with substantially more memory than the ones listed? A couple of the compatible MCUs say 128x8 Kbytes, I'm not actually sure if this is an indication that it will be 1,024 kb or not because the datasheets just say "64 to 128 Kbytes of Flash memory, 16 Kbytes of SRAM with HW parity". For example, look at this MCU, it says 128x8 on the main page, but the product datasheet says "64-128" so I'm not sure what I'd be getting: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/STM32F072CBT7/5308070.
Post by: Vardys on Tue, 15 February 2022, 12:47:24
Post by: Jaygles on Sat, 19 February 2022, 11:53:42
Even unfinished, love that metal board! Created this account for this project, looking forward to what come of it. Take as long as you need!
Same here. Can't wait to see the anodized version
Post by: KeeBnnuy on Sat, 19 February 2022, 20:24:46
Post by: Dreadnou(h)gt on Mon, 21 February 2022, 14:00:11
Post by: IneffableCrab on Tue, 01 March 2022, 17:08:53
Post by: runnez on Tue, 08 March 2022, 06:13:56
Hey everyone - the proto is built and working. Some dusty photos:Ah damn it's a major shame if you cannot sell it in EU I own a Austin and use it as my main board I would love a bigger version
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I maybe do a sound test later this week. The switches were lubed a bit inconsistently though so I may do more work on it, but it's enough to evaluate the proto.
Moving forward, I need to:
- Get a second case proto with a sandblasted, anodized case. I also plan on fixing some minor issues on the 2nd proto (the front bumpon pocket is a little too small for instance). This may be with a different manufacturer (I used SuNPe for the proto).
- Figure out FCC/CE EMI testing and get some quotes with some testing labs. I wrote up about EMI testing laws and regulations (and the likely dubious legal status of most custom mechanical keyboards) on Keebtalk (https://www.keebtalk.com/t/your-custom-keyboard-is-probably-illegal-a-long-post-on-radio-interference-testing-regulations-and-keyboards/16104). I would like to comply with those laws and regulations and actually do the interference testing. This adds time, complexity, and quite a bit of cost, and imposes a bunch of constraints (e.g. I might have to sell this with a fixed layout plate to avoid testing every layout configuration, which would add a lot of testing costs, and have open-source universal plate files published online that people would have to get cut themselves if they want to). This may also cause issues with international availability - the US, EU, and Canada have separate EMI testing regulations and require different tests to legally sell keebs in their jurisdictions, and it likely won't make financial sense to get approval with every jurisdiction (e.g. I received a $3000 quote for CE testing for Europe, and I'm not particularly confident I can make that $3000 back in EU sales). It may end up being US restricted if I only pay for FCC testing (which is still likely $2000+), and you'll have to find a 3rd-party proxy/forwarder or something if you're trying to get this from abroad (e.g. I can't legally sell directly in Europe without CE testing). If these constraints are too problematic (or if the testing ends up simply being too expensive), I am considering just open-sourcing the files metal version and writing up an ordering guide just like the 3D printed version, which would probably preclude a group buy or other sale.
- Compile a final bill of materials, and figure out pricing.
- Work things out with a vendor (there's been some tentative talks with a vendor but nothing's concrete yet).
- There's a chance I run this in-stock, though this is still TBD.
Sent from my ASUS_I005DA using Tapatalk
Post by: Robert.Lussier5 on Tue, 08 March 2022, 07:06:46
Post by: TheNeonKnight on Wed, 09 March 2022, 16:46:43
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 18 March 2022, 02:11:01
[attachimg=1]
124 ligtht blue box switches ( this one is my home board, so clicky is not a problem)
Both of my boards:
[attachimg=2]
The top one is my original build - Hako true switches and MT3 Suswatari, green backlight meant for the office (the blue F-keys and blanks are row one SA keys)
The bottom is my new home buld - Box light blue with MT3 /dev/TTT, amber backlight. The extra F-keys are from the extras kit.
Both feature my custom QMK buld that always asserts num lock, so I can re-use the key.
Edit: I had some issues with the keyboard resetting while plugged into a switch if I turn the yellow backlight up to high. Running from the PC is fine. I just checked, and with a 100 Ohm resistor, the green 1.8mm leds draw about 7.3 mA while the yellow draw about 11.3mA. So over 124 leds, that gives a draw of about 900 mA for green instead of 1400 mA for Yellow. So if you are on the fence between the two colors, I would go with green.
Post by: hvontres on Sat, 19 March 2022, 00:18:24
[attachimg=1]
Front side. Excuse my mess of a bench (It's a little better now)
[attachimg=2]
Cool view down the backside.
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 19 March 2022, 14:43:18
https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/tree/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/Metal%20version
I still need to write up assembly instructions (I will need to disassemble my proto and rebuild it to do so), but it should be fairly straightforward to build (as it's a traditional top mount keyboard). The only complications are around the daughterboard holder and pressing-in and soldering the M2 PEM nuts for that.
For the 3D-printed version, RNDKBD has run a GB (due late March), and will run future ones. I am not directly involved in this group buy, though I have been talking with Andy quite a bit and answering questions and such.
https://rndkbd.com/collections/keyboard-kits-cases/products/boston-keyboard-kit?variant=42579256541418
Post by: Jaygles on Sun, 20 March 2022, 22:45:39
Post by: thienhaor on Sun, 20 March 2022, 23:08:49
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 21 March 2022, 08:36:24
Thank you for all your hard work, sad that the GB didn't make it but the keyboard still lives on! Is there any chance that we can support you as a designer other than GB? Seriously the whole Github link is a gold mine and you even plan to do a full assembly video too! Big UPS
Thanks! At the moment no, but I appreciate the sentiment, and if you do decide to build a Boston please post photos of it as I enjoy seeing what people do with the files. I'm also still working on a force curve meter kit (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=115453.0), though there's lots and lots of software work that still needs to be done.
Also it'll probably be a written assembly guide, not a video - I'm not good at making videos so an assembly video is unlikely (I actually attempted to do a fairly janky build stream when I received the proto but was having a lot of problems with Twitch).
Post by: hvontres on Sun, 27 March 2022, 00:52:06
[attachimg=1]
I am just getting back into KiCad and started playing with the Acheron libs today. I figure there is two possible routes we could go with something like this:
1) design a whole new PCB, probably best to do the daughterboard version and modify the 3d printed case to mount the daughter board
2) look at splitting the PCB into three sections (the 65% center seciton, numpad and dual F-keys). This would allow us to only have one set of boards and rearrange them to suit. At this point, it is just an idea floating in my head and I would probably need to sit down and do some scale layouts to see how feasible this second idea really is.
Post by: lush_bunny on Mon, 28 March 2022, 00:14:53
Pylon, thank you again for a most awesome input device :) I was wondering if there is any interest in a southpaw version (we could call it southie :) ) I did a quick mockup in KLE:
(Attachment Link)
I am just getting back into KiCad and started playing with the Acheron libs today. I figure there is two possible routes we could go with something like this:
1) design a whole new PCB, probably best to do the daughterboard version and modify the 3d printed case to mount the daughter board
2) look at splitting the PCB into three sections (the 65% center seciton, numpad and dual F-keys). This would allow us to only have one set of boards and rearrange them to suit. At this point, it is just an idea floating in my head and I would probably need to sit down and do some scale layouts to see how feasible this second idea really is.
Southpaw would be nice. Color me interested. Though I'm not sure if this is the right place to bring this up. Maybe ping Pylon in Discord?
Post by: whizzard on Sat, 02 April 2022, 18:41:35
Open-sourcing all this planning and hard work is a gift to the keyboard world. I would have loved to buy this kit, but getting one custom machined on my own is a route I have yet to go in my keyboard building. Many thanks for all you have done so far and to everyone who has found and followed this awesome project.
Can't wait to see where this can go in the future with those of us who are interested in creating a Boston of our own. And to the over 100 percent size keyboard fans among us, keep it up!
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 11 May 2022, 08:47:30
itsFirewire did a long build stream on Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1480626736) last night for the 3D-printed GB RNDKBD ran recently (https://rndkbd.com/collections/keyboard-kits-cases/products/boston-keyboard-kit). RNDKBD will tentatively be doing a round two around late-May or early-June. Note I'm not formally running or involved in RNDKBD's group buy (it's based off the open source files) but have been communicating with Andy @ RNDKBD quite a bit.
I'm doing another PCB revision (V0.7J) for the 3D printed version to add some holes to the PCB so that the screws that hold the key separators to the plate can be accessed from the back once the PCB is soldered. Right now those screws are inaccessible once the PCB is in place, so the key separators can't be adjusted after switches are soldered onto the PCB (which makes aligning them before soldering critical). I'm also looking into a way to ground the plate and screws on the top side (they currently are not grounded, though you can solder a wire between the PCB and plate if you wish to ground them). Both of these changes requires moving several components, and will require another round of prototyping. I'm not sure if this revision will be ready and prototyped in time for RNDKBD's R2.
I have a friend who's trying to build a 3D-printed one with countersunk (flush) screws on the top instead of button head. If it works well I'll update the files to make that an option, as it would be less obtrusive than the current button head screws.
The assembly guide for the metal version (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/Metal%20version/Assembly-guide.md) is slowly coming along, but I still need to add pictures (I'm rebuilding my current prototype and desoldering is going slowly, but I'll be able to photograph it when it's getting rebuilt).
The Vial firmware (https://github.com/bluepylons/Boston/blob/master/Boston%20-%20Current%20design/boston_vial.bin) has been updated to use Vial V0.5.
Post by: lush_bunny on Wed, 11 May 2022, 09:05:59
Post by: atl22033 on Tue, 24 May 2022, 08:35:08
Post by: Pylon on Fri, 27 May 2022, 02:08:02
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 28 May 2022, 03:33:46
I just received protos for V0.7J and everything appears to be working fine so far (shorting the keys with a pair of tweezers), though I haven't built up a full keyboard (with switches and all) for that new PCB yet as I'm waiting on switches and stabs for a new build.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/847113872661413939/979963706463105084/PXL_20220528_042526714.NIGHT.jpg)
Post by: Dreadnou(h)gt on Wed, 01 June 2022, 16:18:15
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913298667681775636/981638504574484540/20220601_211910.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913298667681775636/981638505023299704/20220601_211958.jpg)
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 02 June 2022, 07:47:56
Reminder that RNDKBD's Round 2 (https://rndkbd.com/) for the 3D-printed version will start tomorrow (June 3rd) at 9AM Mountain Time.
Post by: vicechief on Mon, 20 June 2022, 13:45:04
Eventually, I'm going to make my own.
Also VIAL is a revelation.
Cheers.
[attach=1]
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 24 June 2022, 02:24:15
Post by: Dreadnou(h)gt on Tue, 16 August 2022, 09:19:02
Post by: ReDsNoTDeAd on Mon, 19 September 2022, 04:14:02
Now that the group buy rush is over, I plan on carrying the 3D-printed Boston (with 0.7J PCBs) as an in-stock item in my store. Expect about a week lead time as these are printed to order. Big thanks to Pylon for all his hard work + open sourcing this project.
https://rndkbd.com/products/boston-keyboard-kit
Post by: MMJ1999 on Mon, 26 September 2022, 20:10:21
Post by: RPFNYC on Sun, 23 October 2022, 04:10:12
Hi All,
Now that the group buy rush is over, I plan on carrying the 3D-printed Boston (with 0.7J PCBs) as an in-stock item in my store. Expect about a week lead time as these are printed to order. Big thanks to Pylon for all his hard work + open sourcing this project.
https://rndkbd.com/products/boston-keyboard-kit
Can the keyboard be ordered with rgb lighting and hot swap connectors on the pcb board ?
I would like this order this keyboard but I am trying to find out if it comes with all the things I like most about keyboards besides the layout (which I love).
Does the keyboard come fully assembled when ordering from your store ?
I don't want to solder, I'm horrible at it. I don't mind regular hand assembly tho.
thanks
Post by: Technofrikus on Wed, 28 December 2022, 09:05:49
You need a printer that can print a 405mm object.
Details and files available here:
https://github.com/Technofrikus/Boston-Case
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Wed, 28 December 2022, 12:17:58
Post by: Epsilon Plus on Sun, 23 April 2023, 17:41:38
This is probably a niche enough board that doing an actual GB for a metal version of it would probably fail to meet a reasonable minimum, right?
Post by: bkrownd on Sun, 23 April 2023, 20:38:04
that looks excellent technofrikus
Post by: iamtragic on Sun, 23 April 2023, 23:37:16
Worthwhile checking in here and seeing if the GB ever happened / if it's yet to happen.
Post by: ReDsNoTDeAd on Wed, 21 June 2023, 23:32:46
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/10z5ivm/ic_rndkbd_metal_boston_120_keyboard/
Worthwhile checking in here and seeing if the GB ever happened / if it's yet to happen.
(https://i.imgur.com/f4h93Ke.png)
https://rndkbd.com/collections/boston-120-group-buy/products/gb-boston-120-compact-keyboard-kit
Oh it's happening. Opens tomorrow (June 22) at 2 PM EST
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 22 June 2023, 02:26:53
Ooof, over the last year I got back into mechanical clocks and mechanical (haha) guitars. The funding has gone elsewhere. Now I don't think I can fund such an endgame board anymore.
Post by: sanger_r on Thu, 22 June 2023, 09:28:14
Post by: ReDsNoTDeAd on Fri, 23 June 2023, 14:27:51
Any chance we can just buy the case or is it kits only?
Reach out to me at andy@rndkbd.com and I can make that happen.
Post by: ReDsNoTDeAd on Fri, 30 June 2023, 15:32:53
Post by: svenge on Fri, 28 July 2023, 09:34:26
Last day for the Alu Boston: https://rndkbd.com/products/gb-boston-120-compact-keyboard-kit
Oops I missed this one. That's okay... I just started working on building my 3d printed version. Starting with a nice paint job :)
To whoever bought into the alu version (and hek, the 3d print too), please share pics of your builds, I think this is one of the most beautiful boards out there.
Post by: svenge on Fri, 08 September 2023, 17:47:17
It's really hard to capture the colorshift paint in a single image. It looks so cool in the right light.
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