Touch typing... can an old dog learn new tricks?

[Netdewt]

I'm not that old, but I've been using computers for nearly 20 years, and now I use them daily to make a living. I never learned how to type properly. I took classes a long time ago, but they never stuck. I do a weird combination of knowing where the keys are from experience and just memorizing how to type certain words. The big downside is that I can only look at the screen 50% of the time and so I always have a lot of errors to fix.

Can it be done? Suggestions?

[stingrae]

I'm not that old, but I've been using computers for nearly 20 years, and now I use them daily to make a living. I never learned how to type properly. I took classes a long time ago, but they never stuck. I do a weird combination of knowing where the keys are from experience and just memorizing how to type certain words. The big downside is that I can only look at the screen 50% of the time and so I always have a lot of errors to fix.

Can it be done? Suggestions?

Sure it can be done!

Choose your layout and work through it slowly and precisely with a typing program like http://www.typefastertypingtutor.com/. At first you will be really slow especially if you are very used to qwerty. I could type without looking but my technique was awful and making my hands tired faster. I decidede to learn colemak and touch typing properly.

24 jan - installed typing tutor
mostly practiced lesson 1 with a bit of 2 and 3. I also played the built in game quite a bit and increased the speed after a bit.
The following dates are very rough:
14 Feb - hit 40 wpm on lesson one and 18 wpm on common words
20 Feb - stopped using qwerty ~ 23 wpm
1 March - hit 30 wpm on common words
11 March - hit 40 wpm on common words

I will say this I spent a lot more time on lesson 1 getting used to tnes perhaps, I only have 90-94% accuracy ~ I use capslock as backspace that alone has made a marked improvement. I have issues hitting some things e.g. (), {} both because its same finger and I think my punctuation and numbers are probably very slow.

At first I felt like it was a pointless battle as I had like gained nothing but being clumsy on the keyboard and couldn't think outside of what I had to type but it is becomming second nature slowly and surely. I don't know how the feck people hit 100wpm though xD.

Hope this helps.

[Squelos]

Wow, 40wpm That is pretty slow indeed.
Im currently at 70/80 wpm on a qwerty, also trying to use bépo (some french programmer variant of dvorak).

Im trying the classic way : got a printed out layout, that i look at to know which key to use.
Im also trying to type correctly, because currently I dont have 1 key, 1 finger, depending on where my hands are, I sometimes uses up to 3 fingers to hit the same key.
And I mostly use my indexes and majors to hit the keys. My right pinky isnt of much use (mostly hitting the mods ...)

[mbc]

wow.. this must the first topic asking for touch typing advise

[Djuzuh]

I had the same problem as you, only with less keyboard experience.

The trick I used to totally relearn the proper way (with all  10 fingers instead of 4) AND learn to touchtype, was to change the layout.

I switched to bépo (cf above), while keeping my azerty keyboard.

I did some training on klavaro the first few weaks, and it was good (only the speed sucked a lot x), but since I never typed that fast in azerty, it's good ).

It took me about 3 weeks to get to a bearable speed (before it's really annoying, but if you don't keep at it you'll never learn), and I'd say in 2 month I had my original speed (70 WPM~~) again.

The only problem is you have to be able to get past the first two weeks, which depending on your work may cause some problems (10 minute for 1 sentance isn't a joke).

[Netdewt]

wow.. this must the first topic asking for touch typing advise

You do know this is a KEYBOARD forum... it doesn't get much more specific than that.

[sth]

You do know this is a KEYBOARD forum... it doesn't get much more specific than that.

[zirb]

I like stingrae's tip here.

But most important is: just do it.
We trust in you!

[davkol]

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[lightsout714]

I really need to stop being lazy and learn as well.

[Netdewt]

Wow, 40wpm That is pretty slow indeed.

Yeah I'm about 40-50wpm without knowing how to type properly.

Are the alternative layouts easy to switch between? I share my computers, and other people would be annoyed.

[Djuzuh]

Heh, other people not being able to use your keyboard was one of the selling points for alternative layouts for me !

But yeah, alt shift => other layout.

[Surly73]

I'm not that old, but I've been using computers for nearly 20 years, and now I use them daily to make a living. I never learned how to type properly. I took classes a long time ago, but they never stuck. I do a weird combination of knowing where the keys are from experience and just memorizing how to type certain words. The big downside is that I can only look at the screen 50% of the time and so I always have a lot of errors to fix.

Can it be done? Suggestions?

I was in a similar situation about 15 years ago.  I was able to touch type, and I used all of my fingers, but not in a way that was technically correct.  Switching to a split keyboard (MS Natural) forced me to relearn some of my incorrect home row habits and things like that.  Depending on just what your "problems" are, something like that will force you to relearn without completely changing your layout to something like Colemak.  

On the other hand, there are still various things I still do "wrong" but I'm not sure how much they really affect my speed or fatigue:
- I believe that I pretty much always hit space with my right thumb
- I generally only use left-side modifiers. Of course the systems that I learned on only had modifiers on the left side (shift excepted perhaps) so that's probably a large part of the reason why
- I don't believe that I use my pinkies as much as I should, but they do get used.

[Netdewt]

From COLEMAK FAQ:

Do I need to buy a new keyboard, move the keys or relabel them?
No, in fact I recommend against it. Just print out the layout image and refer to it when needed during the learning phase.

I really like this idea.

[dimoniy]

Touch typing... can an old dog learn new tricks?

Well... I think you can learn to fetch

[morgofborg]

I'd say one of the most important things, like most things in life, is don't stick with bad habits. That is my biggest problem. Being a lefty, I almost exclusively use the left shift for Capital letters, that alone slows me way down. Plus I type some letters with my left hand that I shouldn't like Y and even the N, lol.

[Roguemaster8]

What I've always been curious about, is once you learn Colemak, can you still maintain your speed in Qwerty?

[Djuzuh]

yes.

Well, probably not 100% if you never practice it.

It just takes 2 or 3 minutes to adjust again to another layout.

[Roguemaster8]

Hmph. That's my real fear, is not being proficient with at least one layout. I can do 60 wpm on Qwerty, but if I move to Colemak who knows when I'll type that fast again.

I'm just sick of typing predominantly with my left hand.

[davkol]

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[Netdewt]

Would it be possible to map a key to switch between layouts with a single button?

[davkol]

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[Djuzuh]

AHK is autohotkey I suppose?

[Netdewt]

I'm on Mac. Maybe this sort of thing would work.

http://m.lifehacker.com/5749811/turn-any-action-into-a-keyboard-shortcut-on-your-mac

[lowkey]

I don't know how the feck people hit 100wpm though xD.

Hope this helps.

For me it was being forced to learn in school.  I went through three compulsory typing classes - one in 5th grade, one in 6th, and one in 8th.  No idea why they placed me into a *third* class, because by then I could already touch type at 100+ wpm, but I wasn't really complaining because it was easy

After 15 years or so of touch typing, 130-140wpm average isn't difficult for me at all.  Just takes practice like anything else.

[jpc]

I learned Colemak layout, touch typing, and the Kinesis keyboard at the same time.

It took several hours of practice over a few days to reach 20wpm, and then a couple weeks of full-time use to reach 60wpm.

Was it worth it? For me it was. I was in pain, and the new typing style is much more comfortable. The Kinesis forces you to use the proper finger for each key, it's a great learning aid. QWERTY now feels super inefficient.

[feckn_eejit]

.

[tp4tissue]

Interesting thread.  I'm 28, and have been typing almost exclusively on nice mechanical keyboards (and ThinkPads...) for my entire computing life.  I was never properly trained to touch-type, and I know there are several things wrong with my technique--the strangest of which is I type Y with my left index finger... yet always right thumb for space, and right pinky for shift--never left shift.  Anywho, somehow I manage 90wpm while slouching on with a laptop in the least ergonomic position in human history, then get up to 115-120wpm sitting at my desk with a Type M or OmniKey.  

The thing that's really blowing my mind as I delve into this forum is the concept that bottoming out is NOT desirable.  I'm known among peers as a keyboard sadist, hammering the keys to within a millimeter of their life all the time... strangely, the only keyboard I've ever killed was a Fujitsu FKB4726 (which I can confirm is hardly a piece of crap but surely not "Peerless" when compared to white alps and buckling springs...) by spilling coke on it... anyway, I've always written it off as having too many Rush covers on bass in my late teens/early 20s (yes, I have recovered...) and therefore having beastly fingers which know no concept of precision.  I tried typing on the OmniKey 101 today without bottoming out and it was nigh-on impossible for me.

What's to be gained by continuing to try to teach myself to stop bottoming out, other than additional appreciation of these fine keyboards I'm surrounded by? (inb4 "might as well have browns if you're just murdering those whites...)

That is probably the biggestkeyboard myth out there. using a light touch is always prefered to reduce keyboarding fatigue, but there is NO reason to force oneself to NOT bottom out "completely 100%" of the time, it provides no speed improvement.

[Netdewt]

Colemak online lesson 1 done.

[Surly73]

The "bottoming out" discussion is dangerous territory.  Personally, I disagree with the assertion that you "should not" bottom out.  This throws people into a self-conscious spiral where they feel they aren't 'leet if they still bottom out.

Typical mechanical boards operate in such a fashion that you don't NEED to bottom out.  This may dramatically improve speed for SOME users and can reduce fatigue for SOME users.  I'll admit that I have yet to switch to using the same switch absolutely everywhere (i.e. MX brown at home, Model M at the office, various laptops thrown into the mix, a Keytronic on a second home PC) but I am not at my fastest without bottoming out on any of these switches.  It just isn't how my body and brain operate.  Some switches are very hard not to bottom out - particularly the most tactile (like Realforce 55g).  Linear MX switches are easier to learn not to bottom out because they are, well, linear.  Anything with a "pop" in the action to provide tactility is pretty much going to break away and bottom out when you're typing at high speed.

I will fully support the notion that when you try a new switch you need to give your body time to adjust and build new muscle memory for that switch.  A 5 minute test drive is not going to give you a true picture of your compatibility with a switch.  I think that something more like a week should be the minimum test drive.  I've personally had acquaintances type "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party" on MX browns and say they don't like it.  Later when they're curious again I'll loan them a board for a week and they can't stop singing it's praises after they stick with it.  I've personally found that the superiority of MX browns is realized less when you're typing on it and more when you try to go back to your old "it came with the computer" RD board.  That's when mechs really hook someone, in my experience.

[stingrae]

I think the comfort of colemak and other alternative layouts is worth more then the reduction in speed.

As for bottoming out, I find I do it less and less even when I do switch to the reds. I find I bottom out more when I am not casually typing (e.g. trying to test speed/work on colemak). I think it doesn't hurt to keep it in the back of your mind as a bad habbit but it isn't something you should focus on until comfortably typing in that layout I think.

I will say this though I am happy with colemak and being able to touch type properly (allbeit at a snails pace), I just wish it was a windows default layout, sure would make life easier, lol I wonder if it's possible to mod a keyboard to type colemak by default no one would want to steal my keyboard ever!

Before colemak my index fingers would get very sore from a technique severly lacking pinky and ring fingers, was even worse when I had a logitech g11 (awful keyboard) but the moment I bought a mechanical keyboard I knew I had to learn or else it was a waste of a purchase for the most part.

[Netdewt]

I don't mean to call myself "old" necessarily. I am 29. I was referring to the fact that I have been using a keyboard incorrectly for quite a long time.

[Djuzuh]

Maybe change your setup completely? Monitor/keyboard tray/terrible font keyboard - etc.

I think this forum is a secret operation of the banks to make more and bigger loans.

[itlnstln]

If you are comfortable and type "fast enough," then I don't really see any need to correct a typing style.  I type correctly on the QWERTY layout, and I don't see any need to switch layouts or make other modifications since I feel that I type fast enough for my needs.  If I were a secretary or something, I might be able to justify it, but I don't type enough "prose" to need 150+ WPM, or whatever.  Switching layouts can be prohibitive, especially these days, where you might have any number of devices with keyboards (real or virtual) with varying degrees of ability for customization.

[WhackCheese]

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[Tony]

Would it be possible to map a key to switch between layouts with a single button?

Yes. You can set a hotkey to toggle between layouts or to go to a specific layout of yours.
To do so, in Windows you go to
Control panel->Regional and Language Options->Languages->Settings->Key Settings

[Netdewt]

Cool, I got it! Set to F1 in the Keyboard Shortcuts menu. Super easy.

[jpc]

I think the comfort of colemak and other alternative layouts is worth more then the reduction in speed.

This.

Same goes for ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis, and also for break-timer software.

[J-P]

I've always typed badly. I never (or very rarely) use my pinkies. I just use 3 fingers per hand and keep both thumbs on the space bar half the time. I type at a regular 60WPM, but copy-type much faster (around 120). It's definitely possible - but you need to get your brain used to not looking at the keys. Run through typing drills of qqqq ppp qqp pppqq // aa;;; a;;; aaaa ; ; aaa ;; aa ; ; aaaa ;; // etc. typing the alphabet forwards and backwards etc.

If you're old at 29 that's sad.

I can remember using model M's the first time around, and I remember my Vic-20 being 'cool'....


Some fun links for typing lessons / tests online, if you haven't found them already are:

• Type Fu
  
• Typing Web (good lessons - you can even get a relatively meaningless certificate!)
  
• Good Typing (nice speed test and again, good lessons)
  
• Type-racer, I think there are more than likely a few geek-hacker's on here...
  

Practice makes perfect