HHKB2 Pro

[ashort]

Actually touched one last night and typed on it for a short while.

It's nice, and it may be the best that's out there, but it's not $260+ better than the Cherry keyboard I tote everyday.  I'm not sure i could type on the HHKB2 Pro without bottoming the keys out 100% of the time.  And not bottoming out is part of the point.  Maybe with time, but that's a gamble with $300.

I can see why everyone who has one, loves it.  I can't see spending the jack.

[xsphat]

Submit ashort, resistance is futile.

[xsphat]

And what is really so bad about bottoming out? I never understood that and most of the people I know who type on good keyboards bottom out with nearly every stroke.

[iMav]

The primary issue with bottoming out HARD is the eventual trauma it does to your hands/wrists/etc.  ashort knows this first hand.

I lightly bottom out about half the time on HHKB Pro (with the other half of my keystrokes not bottoming out).  That may vary depending on how aggressive I'm typing.  But the point is, as soon as I feel the tactile feedback that the key has been actuated (subtle, but still existent on the HHKB Pro's), I cease to accelerate downward and start letting up...allowing even a bottoming out to be mild in comparison to slamming your fingers down on a crappy keyboard with no tactile feedback.

So, it's really not a matter of whether you bottom out...as long as the tactile response is good enough to allows you to "land gently".  

[iMav]

BTW ashort . . .

I really mean it when I say that the HHKB Pro grows on you.  The fact that you had such a positive reaction from using it just briefly means that you would likely leave your wife for one in 6 months time.

So, it is a good thing to not allow yourself to buy one.  It would be a home wrecker.  

[Waves77]

I really mean it when I say that the HHKB Pro grows on you.

iMav, have you spent a lot of time on brown cherries? I ask because you compare them to being closest to the HHKB in another thread and that's was my initial reaction to the browns. "Nice I guess, but I don't know what the fuzz is all about".

It took me at least a week to really start appreciating them, and now that I've owned the Filco for about 2 months (give or take) I couldn't live without it. I had promised myself the Pro 2 for when I finished this project (about 1 month away from being done), but am now considering getting a second Filco

[iMav]

iMav, have you spent a lot of time on brown cherries?

I spent some time on the browns and think they are really nice.  I wouldn't complain at all if there was a brown cherry equipped keyboard available with the HHKB key layout.

It is the layout of the HHKB's that is its true brilliance.

[Waves77]

I spent some time on the browns and think they are really nice.  I wouldn't complain at all if there was a brown cherry equipped keyboard available with the HHKB key layout.

It is the layout of the HHKB's that is its true brilliance.

I have a lite 2. The key feel sucks, but yeah, I can see how people would love this layout.

Purely on key feel, is there either one that you would prefer over the other?

I actually prefer a numpad usually. I find it more effective for entering larger numbers (especially in batches) and it doesn't really affect my desk to have a slighty larger board...

[iMav]

Purely on key feel, is there either one that you would prefer over the other?

I love the buckling springs, tactile Cherry switches (blue or brown), and the HHKB Pro.  It is layout that has me spoiled on the HHKB.  

If I liked a numpad like you, then it would be a no-brainer.  I'd buy new from Unicomp and stock up!

[xsphat]

I'm not to the point of leaving my wife for a keyboard ... but I guess the Pro 2 could grow on you, though I liked it right away. I find it weird going from the Pro 2 at work to the BS at home — I need to buy a second PS/2 adapter so I can use the firmer Lite 1 so the switch is less traumatic.

And I find I don't bottom out nearly as much on BS and the Pro 2 as I do on Alps whites, but none of them hurt my hands.

About the browns, they grew on me in the opposite direction, but I haven't been a fan of Cherry switches. At first I thought they were great, god's gift, but I could never get any accuracy out of the keyboard. I'd always have double letters or three of the wrong letters or jsut dropped characters and that added quite a bit of time to my editing process. That's what killed it for me. On my current rotation, I am as accurate on one as the next and that consistency is what I require. It's as important to me as the feel of the keys.

And I am liking this M mini a lot because it's really accurate and reasonably quick.

[Ulysses31]

So xsphat, do you mean that the Cherry switches were "bouncing" and causing repeated key-press signals to be generated?  I saw a Youtube video of another Filco owner who demonstrated this problem but it really surprises me that such devices wouldn't be equipped with de-bouncing circuitry that would reject the extra oscillating repeated contact of switch terminals.

[Waves77]

At first I thought they were great, god's gift, but I could never get any accuracy out of the keyboard.

I have to agree on that one (see my review here). The browns especially seem to be less accurate.

I can live with it for now though, although if the HHKB has a similar feel to the browns and is a lot more accurate than I'm sold: you guys have peer pressured me into getting one soon

[Waves77]

So xsphat, do you mean that the Cherry switches were "bouncing" and causing repeated key-press signals to be generated?  I saw a Youtube video of another Filco owner who demonstrated this problem but it really surprises me that such devices wouldn't be equipped with de-bouncing circuitry that would reject the extra oscillating repeated contact of switch terminals.

It's not really bouncing (sounds like that guy had a defective board maybe). The feedback, both tactile and auditory on these keys is a lot softer than on BS, Alps or blue cherries, which makes it less accurate than other keyswitches. It's easier to make typos or skip a key by not pressing down far enough, as they can be quite light.

[xsphat]

I don't know what it was, but it didn't seem to be a malfunction with the keyboard. I was VERY impressed with the build quality of the Filco. I think it's more like me and the Cherry switches don't get along for whatever reason. I can type on the blacks but I wouldn't want to, and the MLs feel pretty good but whats the point of having reduced size keys when the keyboard is still bigger than an HHKB? The blues made my hands hurt which could have been at the fault of the M10 I owned for like a week, and the browns were so light I would try for a "g" and get "ftyhbvg" instead.