Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[bearwithtea]

The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

[selsik]

The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you

[PlayBox]

The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you

thats's why i bought redragon k552 to mod it, change switches and keycaps

[VaporKeebs]

The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you

Oh you forgot how they shame anyone who has something nice even if it was cheap and the reddit itself is run by a huge man-baby.

[VaporKeebs]

Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

[bkrownd]

Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion

[VaporKeebs]

Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion

Look at any keeb group and its a pretty unpopular opinion.

[tp4tissue]

Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion

Look at any keeb group and its a pretty unpopular opinion.

Flipped spacebars are better if your wrist are low, if your wrists are high, then you go unflipped.

The surface merely matches the attack angle of the thumb, it's not a mystery.

Irrelevant though, because Split + Tented is superior in every way.

[bkrownd]

Flipped spacebars are better if your wrist are low, if your wrists are high, then you go unflipped.

If your wrists are "low" your setup is an ergonomics fail.

[tp4tissue]

Flipped spacebars are better if your wrist are low, if your wrists are high, then you go unflipped.

If your wrists are "low" your setup is an ergonomics fail.

not always, it depends on seating height.  there's NO optimal, it's a fluid zone.  I've tried everything from bed mounted computer table to standing desk.    You need a bit of everything for different situations.

[bkrownd]

Keyboard is supposed to be at basically elbow-level or a little lower if your arms are relaxed at your side.  If your wrists are "low" your keyboard is too high.

[fortissim2]

Instead of using 7 1.25u keys and a 6.25u spacebar, we should just use 12 1.25u keys. It would be funny

[bkrownd]

  I've never understood why the spacebar remained so huge, while other keycaps are still marooned out on the corners of the keyboard.  (backspace/delete in particular)  My thumbs rest in the same spots and could easily tap 1.25-2.00 u keycaps instead of a 6.25u river barge.  Would be cool to optimize the "spacebar" size/position and have delete/backspace relocated in some of that space around the middle of that bottom row.

[mohawk1367]

I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself. 

[iri]

I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns

How unpopular

[PlayBox]

I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself. 

not rally a unpopular opinion

[jamster]

I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself. 

Gotta be two of the most popular opinions on this entire site.

[Bigtailcat]

Most of the knobs on the keyboard are not practical, except for which is near the spacebar, like a rollerbar.

[hvontres]

  I've never understood why the spacebar remained so huge, while other keycaps are still marooned out on the corners of the keyboard.  (backspace/delete in particular)  My thumbs rest in the same spots and could easily tap 1.25-2.00 u keycaps instead of a 6.25u river barge.  Would be cool to optimize the "spacebar" size/position and have delete/backspace relocated in some of that space around the middle of that bottom row.

If you thought that 6.25U was too much for a space bar, check out this 10U badboy on a Wyse 160 Keyboard (genuine cherry ):


Why yes, it rattles like hell

[hvontres]

Most of the knobs on the keyboard are not practical, except for which is near the spacebar, like a rollerbar.

I have found that having one in the top left corner works really well:

I actually have layers set up to make it do different jobs:
layer1: volume
layer2: fast scroll (5x scrollwheel clicks per click)
layer3: horizontal scroll

[Bigtailcat]

Most of the knobs on the keyboard are not practical, except for which is near the spacebar, like a rollerbar.

I have found that having one in the top left corner works really well:

Show Image

I actually have layers set up to make it do different jobs:
layer1: volume
layer2: fast scroll (5x scrollwheel clicks per click)
layer3: horizontal scroll

:thumb: Multi-layer knob， that's pretty cool! The knob in the top left corner reminds me of Logitech Craft.

[jamster]

Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

What's going on here- is there some massive divergence of opinion between Reddit (or some other enthusiast site) and GH?

I would offer these opinions instead:

TLK is great, until you do any half serious Excel work, and then TKL just sucks ass. I can't even imagine using Excel with a board that was sub-TKL, without proper nav clusters.

Southpaw full sized boards- meh. The effort to relearn decades of muscle memory is a pain.

If you're going to be a keyboard enthusiast, then presumably typing is an important part of your life. Type properly- punctuate, capitalise, use paragraphs. And learn how to touch type.

[fohat.digs]

until you do any half serious Excel work

without proper nav clusters.

The effort to relearn decades of muscle memory is a pain.

presumably typing is an important part of your life. Type properly- punctuate, capitalise, use paragraphs. And learn how to touch type.

Right on !

[mohawk1367]

I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself. 

Gotta be two of the most popular opinions on this entire site.

Not in the deeper end of the community. It's a common opinion for beginners who haven't tried either of those things but I see a lot of enthusiasts who love both MX Browns and GMK.

[mohawk1367]

Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

They look stupid for sure in my opinion. I hit space with my index finger so it makes typing feel much worse but if I force myself to use my thumb it definitely does feel more natural to have it flipped. I don't think aesthetics were taken into consideration when this technique was thought up, I've only heard people saying it feels and sounds better.

[mohawk1367]

my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no

Buckling spring isn't expensive at all. You can find old Model Ms for like $40 or less on Craigslist or EBay. If you don't wanna go through the struggle of cleaning and restoring you can still get a factory fresh Model M from Unicomp for under $120 (if you live in the US at least. Not sure how Unicomp's shipping is to other countries).

[mohawk1367]

i despise the PE foam mod, it ruins the uniqueness in switches and boards and makes every single board sound like marbles.
It can sound good but you ideally don't want 15 boards all sounding the same with hundreds of dollars of price difference

Not really an unpopular opinion.

[CaesarAZealad]

Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

What's going on here- is there some massive divergence of opinion between Reddit (or some other enthusiast site) and GH?

You want an unpopular opinion? The artisan space is culty and reminds me of NFT bros.

[TheWonderBubble]

Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

Windows blockers are one of the dumbest things the keyboard community has come up with. Not only are they hideous aesthetically as they ruin the lines of boards and introduce awkwardly flat gaps causing an unnatural and wide gap in the keys, but they're just pointless. Not only is the windows key often useful, but even if you don't use it for that it can be remapped to any number of other options. Even if for some reason you REALLY hate having a windows key, spare macro, etc, you could just remap it to nothing. There's no reason to turn a perfectly good board into something less useful and more ugly.

[MIGHTY CHICKEN]

Windows blockers are one of the dumbest things the keyboard community has come up with

The keyboard community didn't really invent the WKL blocker, it's a pretty prominent feature on many older boards such as the 89u, old g80s,at101s and the model M. The community just picked up on its aesthetics. I'd also guess it makes support for vintage dshots nicer, especially on older boards and the trend just continued.

[HungerMechanic]

The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you

Unfortunately, you are largely right. Hotswap-only is especially annoying, as it puts into question the longevity of the board.

Too many gasket mounts, as well. Don't get me wrong - my Aurora is great with silent switches.

But for a tactile build, I'd want top mount and a polycarb plate. Why can't they bring a KBD67 Lite in the VA68 layout?

Or even a top-mount Aurora.

[mohawk1367]

Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion

Look at any keeb group and its a pretty unpopular opinion.

Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

Windows blockers are one of the dumbest things the keyboard community has come up with. Not only are they hideous aesthetically as they ruin the lines of boards and introduce awkwardly flat gaps causing an unnatural and wide gap in the keys, but they're just pointless. Not only is the windows key often useful, but even if you don't use it for that it can be remapped to any number of other options. Even if for some reason you REALLY hate having a windows key, spare macro, etc, you could just remap it to nothing. There's no reason to turn a perfectly good board into something less useful and more ugly.

I agree, but I love how they look most of the time. Sadly I use the Windows key way too much to give it up for a few aesthetics points.

[norm]

People who have big boards should be locked up in an asylum. Taking your hand off the keyboard to grab the mouse is already bad enough......but taking your hands off the home row for anything else?
Insane. ;]

[fohat.digs]

Taking your hand off the keyboard to grab the mouse

With mice on both sides you always have at least one keyboard hand free.

[jamster]

I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself. 

Gotta be two of the most popular opinions on this entire site.

Not in the deeper end of the community. It's a common opinion for beginners who haven't tried either of those things but I see a lot of enthusiasts who love both MX Browns and GMK.

I'd think that practically everyone has tried MX Browns, they're kind of the default switch besides MX Blues.

I'd also think that people with longer term experience have moved well past obsessing over a specific cap manufacturer, especially if they've also moved beyond being limited to Cherry MX compatibility. Indifference is probably more accurate a term.

[ArchDill]

I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself. 

Yeah, most of us would agree with this.

[Pretendo]

  I've never understood why the spacebar remained so huge, while other keycaps are still marooned out on the corners of the keyboard.  (backspace/delete in particular)  My thumbs rest in the same spots and could easily tap 1.25-2.00 u keycaps instead of a 6.25u river barge.  Would be cool to optimize the "spacebar" size/position and have delete/backspace relocated in some of that space around the middle of that bottom row.

It's a historic holdover from the typewriter days, just like key stagger. It's still around for the same reason your cellphone makes dial tone noises when you hit the numbers; people expect it.

Typewriters needed to have a long space bar because it was originally integral to the carriage advance design, and that's how they had to do it. Keys were staggered to make room for for the linkages to the hammers. Early computer makers tried to do away with these designs occasionally, but IBM didn't, and since all keyboards are still essentially copying IBM's layout to this very day, here we are.

[Pretendo]

I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

[mohawk1367]

I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?

[Pretendo]

I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?

Good point.  It's unfair to say all (or even most) Model F's are big and bulky. The problem is that almost all of these boards have sacrifices to the layout.

If you need a modern layout (which I did) the only way to get close is to lightly modify an F122. That's what I own, and it's a beast.  I might be able to make due with an F104, which is roughly the width of a full sized Model M at least, but good luck finding one.

[mohawk1367]

I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?

Good point.  It's unfair to say all (or even most) Model F's are big and bulky. The problem is that almost all of these boards have sacrifices to the layout.

If you need a modern layout (which I did) the only way to get close is to lightly modify an F122. That's what I own, and it's a beast.  I might be able to make due with an F104, which is roughly the width of a full sized Model M at least, but good luck finding one.

Have you tried a New Model F? They have their cons compared to the real deal but they have modern layouts + more options for sizes and designs, like the Modern Case Ultra Compact F 62

[caughtquick]

Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.

[fortissim2]

Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.

I also feel like every switch in the market nowadays has an actuation force of either 62.5gf or 63.5gf, or some wacky number. There's literally no variety other than the switch material and the colour combinations. It kinda sucks for me because I can't stand anything above 50gf.

[mohawk1367]

Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.

ive seen some people acknowledge that there are similar switches, but they want zakus because the white on white looks good. idk if thats the case for everyone but i know there are some people who like them because of that

[Pretendo]

I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?

Good point.  It's unfair to say all (or even most) Model F's are big and bulky. The problem is that almost all of these boards have sacrifices to the layout.

If you need a modern layout (which I did) the only way to get close is to lightly modify an F122. That's what I own, and it's a beast.  I might be able to make due with an F104, which is roughly the width of a full sized Model M at least, but good luck finding one.

Have you tried a New Model F? They have their cons compared to the real deal but they have modern layouts + more options for sizes and designs, like the Modern Case Ultra Compact F 62

No, not yet. I did buy flipper/spring assemblies from the project very early on to get an idea of the key feel though.

They're very tempting, but I need the function keys intact. I'm an IBM iSeries developer by trade, which means I need F1-F12 allot, plus shift + F1-12 to access F13-24... or in the case of the F122, they're actually on the keyboard! HAving to Fn + shift + Fkey all they time would get old fast.

This leaves me with tenkeyless enhanced layouts at a bare minimum. A Model F with the exact size and layout of a Corsair K63 is the dream for me.

[Pretendo]

Is it unpopular to say that I despise it when people tear apart old computers/typewriters just for their keyswitches?

If it's a keyboard from an old terminal that literally cannot be used for anything anymore, the machine is damaged beyond repair, or you need other parts to save a better machine and the keys would otherwise be wasted... that's one thing. But if you're taking perfectly working old computers/typewriters and ripping them apart to make a keyboard, that's sacrilegious. It ruins a perfectly good hobby for other enthusiasts, just so you can have a slightly better feeling keyboard, as if there weren't a world of switch options out there. It's beyond selfish.

Apple IIcs are uncommon enough. Let them be.

[NoteMakoti]

Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.

Gonna be an autist here and live up to my avi by pointing out that Shin Matsunaga and his white Zaku never actually show up in the anime.

[fohat.digs]

the keys would otherwise be wasted

I understand this sentiment, and partially agree with it.

On the other hand the number of people who are interested in keeping and using 30+ year old computer systems is quite small, while there are literally millions (billions?) of people who use modern computers every day. I feel certain that the number of people in the subset who want good keyboards to use in the modern world is orders of magnitude greater than the number of people who actually want to use primitive computers.

[Pretendo]

the keys would otherwise be wasted

I understand this sentiment, and partially agree with it.

On the other hand the number of people who are interested in keeping and using 30+ year old computer systems is quite small, while there are literally millions (billions?) of people who use modern computers every day. I feel certain that the number of people in the subset who want good keyboards to use in the modern world is orders of magnitude greater than the number of people who actually want to use primitive computers.

I think you're right that the subset of people who want a good keyboard is higher than classic computer collectors, but the subset of people who want a good keyboard and are willing to hack one out of an old computer and figure out how to get it to work with their modern computer is smaller than classic computer collectors. But at the same time, and especially for rare systems, that subset is enough to drive the prices on those computers to the moon and make them unattainable for those that want to preserve them.

I personally keep around one old computer, an Atari 800, because it's an excellent games machine for its time and it's fun to see what software was around for a machine released in 1979 (thankfully it has abysmal Stackpole switches that nobody would ever want... though its keycaps are very high quality.) Other people like to collect old computers for their games, as sort of "museum" pieces to relive their youth, or just curiosity pieces to see how far computers have come. If the popularity of channels like LGR and The 8-Bit Guy are anything to go off of, there's a decent market there.

Which makes it feel bad to think about somebody wanting to preserve a piece of the past getting shut out of the computer they want because most of them have been cannibalized for for their keyboards.

I'd draw the line at things like terminals because a)you can't really use them as intended anymore, b)even when they were used, it wasn't for anything fun and c)just saving the keyboards from them (and maybe some parts for other old PCs like their CRTs) is probably more than would've been saved otherwise. For example, I salvaged my F122 from a 3180 terminal where the rest of the unit was in pretty rough shape, and to be fair I tried to sell the rest of the terminal for about two months and there were no takers. The Model F would've been trash if I didn't snag it, instead of just a CRT with an incredible amount of burn in.

Likewise for any old computer that was on the brink of being e-waste otherwise. Better to downcycle than throw away.

[jamster]

Is it unpopular to say that I despise it when people tear apart old computers/typewriters just for their keyswitches?

If it's a keyboard from an old terminal that literally cannot be used for anything anymore, the machine is damaged beyond repair, or you need other parts to save a better machine and the keys would otherwise be wasted... that's one thing. But if you're taking perfectly working old computers/typewriters and ripping them apart to make a keyboard, that's sacrilegious. It ruins a perfectly good hobby for other enthusiasts, just so you can have a slightly better feeling keyboard, as if there weren't a world of switch options out there. It's beyond selfish.

Apple IIcs are uncommon enough. Let them be.

I have no issue with old computers being ripped apart, and I grew up with old computers.

The only old computers I've seen again and been impressed by were in a museum- PDP-11, IBM mainframe. I have a soft spot for old Amigas. Otherwise, I think that old computers are best preserved in emulators. From memory, the keyboards from 80s personal computers were pretty bad- do people really salvage parts from them? Edit: I guess the keycaps could be good, no idea what they might be compatible with though.

I do congratulate you on a genuinely unpopular opinion though, and getting this thread back on track