I'm REALLY trying to like Topre...

[Polymer]

Not only do you have to face the snide criticisms of non-Topre fans, you also have to face the jibes of the Topre traditionalists who dump all over Topre's latest products (like the RealForce RGB).

I don't mind the RF RGB..I just don't like how the switches sound (although modded they seem to sound fine) and it is only available in Full...

Now, factory silenced with slightly longer stems in TKL...is a buy..and I don't care about the RGB portion..

[bmilcs]

I love how my post turned into an all out brawl lol.

[zslane]

Not only do you have to face the snide criticisms of non-Topre fans, you also have to face the jibes of the Topre traditionalists who dump all over Topre's latest products (like the RealForce RGB).

I don't mind the RF RGB..I just don't like how the switches sound (although modded they seem to sound fine) and it is only available in Full...

Now, factory silenced with slightly longer stems in TKL...is a buy..and I don't care about the RGB portion..

What drew me to the RF RGB was its 108-key format and its MX-compatible stems. There is no other Topre-made keyboard in the world with those two features. I don't use the backlighting or the variable actuation feature, and couldn't care less about either. It's the size and stem mount that matter to me. TKL is a useless layout for me, otherwise I would have invested heavily in NovaTouch boards. However, I do use a 60% board with my iPad and I would love a 60% version of the RF RGB. But when was the last time Topre made a 60% keyboard?

And I completely agree about the silencing bit. I would have preferred if the RF RGB had come factory silenced, but it didn't and so I had to do the silencing mod myself. It was a royal PITA, but it was pretty easy and totally worth it (to me). An unsilenced RF RGB is unusable to me because of the upstroke noise. A silenced RF RGB, on the other hand, is my end-game board.

[Rob27shred]

The more I use my RealForce, the less I like it. It was nice at first, but more and more I get the feeling they're just rubber domes. And not even the nicest rubber domes I know :/ .

Tp4 completely agrees.. Topre is weeb hype, 100%..  Topre IS rubber dome.. there's no differentiation whatsoever..

The force curve between each cup will be quite dissimilar relative to springs which are highly uniform.


Is topre a bad keyboard, NO,  should it be valued at more than $100 , Heck NO..

Quite honestly this is exactly why I have yet to give Topre a try^ The price of admission is just way too high & I realistically can not see it being that superior to a MX board. I mean I still want to give Topre a try but the limited & light weighting options, limited key cap compatibility, & mixed opinion on it have me pretty leery to even pay $100 to give Topre a shot TBH.

[zslane]

Quite honestly this is exactly why I have yet to give Topre a try^ The price of admission is just way too high & I realistically can not see it being that superior to a MX board. I mean I still want to give Topre a try but the limited & light weighting options, limited key cap compatibility, & mixed opinion on it have me pretty leery to even pay $100 to give Topre a shot TBH.

1. If the retail price is too high, then you might have better luck buying used. Otherwise, it'll remain forever out of reach and you'll never truly know whether or not you like it more than MX.
2. There is only 45g, 55g, and "variable" (a combination of the two). If you absolutely must have something heavier, Topre is probably not for you.
3. Keycap compatibility is solved with the RealForce RGB. However, see comment #1.
4. Opinions are highly subjective and of dubious value. Ultimately the only opinion that counts is your own.

[Rob27shred]

Quite honestly this is exactly why I have yet to give Topre a try^ The price of admission is just way too high & I realistically can not see it being that superior to a MX board. I mean I still want to give Topre a try but the limited & light weighting options, limited key cap compatibility, & mixed opinion on it have me pretty leery to even pay $100 to give Topre a shot TBH.

1. If the retail price is too high, then you might have better luck buying used. Otherwise, it'll remain forever out of reach and you'll never truly know whether or not you like it more than MX.
2. There is only 45g, 55g, and "variable" (a combination of the two). If you absolutely must have something heavier, Topre is probably not for you.
3. Keycap compatibility is solved with the RealForce RGB. However, see comment #1.
4. Opinions are highly subjective and of dubious value. Ultimately the only opinion that counts is your own.

You do make a very good point with 1, I have been keeping my eyes out on here & /r/mechmarket hoping to find the magic combo of price & timing on a decent 2nd hand Topre board. The weighting is the biggest issue I have but I think the 55g variant would be enough for me. I definitely prefer heavier switches (I'm typing this reply on 80g blacks ) but can be just fine with lighter ones too. I've thought about getting a Type Heaven to test drive Topre since they are more affordable boards but have have been told they lack the true Topre feel you get from a RF or HHKB. What do you Topre guys think about the Type Heavens? I do realize it's not gonna be as stout as a RF but does it really feel that different as to be not worth buying. I have noticed that the Type Heavens are very rarely mentioned when Topre is brought up.

[Joey Quinn]

You do make a very good point with 1, I have been keeping my eyes out on here & /r/mechmarket hoping to find the magic combo of price & timing on a decent 2nd hand Topre board. The weighting is the biggest issue I have but I think the 55g variant would be enough for me. I definitely prefer heavier switches (I'm typing this reply on 80g blacks ) but can be just fine with lighter ones too. I've thought about getting a Type Heaven to test drive Topre since they are more affordable boards but have have been told they lack the true Topre feel you get from a RF or HHKB. What do you Topre guys think about the Type Heavens? I do realize it's not gonna be as stout as a RF but does it really feel that different as to be not worth buying. I have noticed that the Type Heavens are very rarely mentioned when Topre is brought up.

I switch back and forth between a 55g HHKB and 78g lubed gat clears in my GON so 55g may be the way to go if you get a topre board.

I think Type Heavens are generally looked at as lesser quality than RFs and HHKBs but I've never tried one so I'm not sure how they compare.

[dgneo]

topre sucks so stop trying

hi mike!

[mike52787]

topre sucks so stop trying

hi mike!

hey pal (no hard feelings :B)

[Polymer]

You do make a very good point with 1, I have been keeping my eyes out on here & /r/mechmarket hoping to find the magic combo of price & timing on a decent 2nd hand Topre board. The weighting is the biggest issue I have but I think the 55g variant would be enough for me. I definitely prefer heavier switches (I'm typing this reply on 80g blacks ) but can be just fine with lighter ones too. I've thought about getting a Type Heaven to test drive Topre since they are more affordable boards but have have been told they lack the true Topre feel you get from a RF or HHKB. What do you Topre guys think about the Type Heavens? I do realize it's not gonna be as stout as a RF but does it really feel that different as to be not worth buying. I have noticed that the Type Heavens are very rarely mentioned when Topre is brought up.

55g isn't that light as all of the force is upfront vs getting some momentum from MX switches that ramp up in weight but start off requiring less force to move them...

What you given up going to a Type Heaven is not worth it IMO...one of the great things with RF (Not the RGB) is the great keycaps...Just buy a regular RF, try it (really try it) for a couple of months..go back and forth between it and your other keyboards but really give it a chance.  If you don't like it, you can just sell it and maybe lose 20-30 dollars.  Really that's nothing given it has been used by you and you won't have to wonder if you're missing out...

[orpheo]

Investing in a HHKB if you don't like the Topre RF?
To me it sounds really funny, kind of like :" I didn't like Paris the last time I visited, maybe I will like it next vacation if I fly first class instead of business class !"

[DRAZAH]

Investing in a HHKB if you don't like the Topre RF?
To me it sounds really funny, kind of like :" I didn't like Paris the last time I visited, maybe I will like it next vacation if I fly first class instead of business class !"

I have an HHKB Pro 2 and an RF 87U 55g, they are virtually not comparable other than the fact they are both "Topre" boards. They both feel and sound completely different so it's not that far-fetched. I would say its more like "I tried the beaches on the Gulf, now I am going to see what the beaches are like in SoCal".

[Prince Valiant]

I love how my post turned into an all out brawl lol.

There's not much else to do once dropping Topre or trying modifications/specific boards have been suggested  .

[bmilcs]

I love how my post turned into an all out brawl lol.

There's not much else to do once dropping Topre or trying modifications/specific boards have been suggested  .

^ ^

I didn't realize it was such a volatile subject.

[dante]

Investing in a HHKB if you don't like the Topre RF?
To me it sounds really funny, kind of like :" I didn't like Paris the last time I visited, maybe I will like it next vacation if I fly first class instead of business class !"

I'm primarily a rubber dome user.  Contrary to the myths perpetuated by the MK brotherhood different rubberdome boards can feel very unique and have different levels of quality.

It's not inconceivable that one Topre board feels less crappy than another depending on personal preferences.

[bmilcs]

i just finished the dental banding with medium 3.5 oz 3/16' dental bands. i am surprised how much it affected the stroke... the distance is staggeringly shorter than before. i definitely think the lube helped but the dental bands are far too much. i'm going to have to remove them ugh. also, i don't know why but this is the third time i've taken a topre apart and the third time i've had issues with the left shift bar only.

what's the trick to realigning the left shift bar

[Polymer]

i just finished the dental banding with medium 3.5 oz 3/16' dental bands. i am surprised how much it affected the stroke... the distance is staggeringly shorter than before. i definitely think the lube helped but the dental bands are far too much. i'm going to have to remove them ugh. also, i don't know why but this is the third time i've taken a topre apart and the third time i've had issues with the left shift bar only.

what's the trick to realigning the left shift bar

You need them to be really thin..that's probably not going to do it....

Have you thought about trying a variable? 

[drewafx]

.

[zslane]

i just finished the dental banding with medium 3.5 oz 3/16' dental bands. i am surprised how much it affected the stroke... the distance is staggeringly shorter than before. i definitely think the lube helped but the dental bands are far too much. i'm going to have to remove them ugh. also, i don't know why but this is the third time i've taken a topre apart and the third time i've had issues with the left shift bar only.

what's the trick to realigning the left shift bar

Yeah, I could tell just from looking at photos of the 3.5oz bands that they would be way too thick. I am going to try 2.5oz but they may also be too thick. I suspect that what we really need are 1.5oz bands, but I don't know if such things even exist (as dental bands, I mean). The bands that come with the Chinese Topre knock-offs are like 1.5oz, by my estimates.

[digi]

"hey guys, I like the color purple"

"NO! THE COLOR PURPLE SUCKS, YOU SHOULD BE LIKING THE COLOR GREEN"

"ok guys, I like the color green"

[tp4tissue]

"hey guys, I like the color purple"

"NO! THE COLOR PURPLE SUCKS, YOU SHOULD BE LIKING THE COLOR GREEN"

"ok guys, I like the color green"

Ergodox is a tp4's favorite color.. it's way better than either purple or green or both.

[digi]

"hey guys, I like the color purple"

"NO! THE COLOR PURPLE SUCKS, YOU SHOULD BE LIKING THE COLOR GREEN"

"ok guys, I like the color green"

Ergodox is a tp4's favorite color.. it's way better than either purple or green or both.

[Joey Quinn]

"hey guys, I like the color purple"

"NO! THE COLOR PURPLE SUCKS, YOU SHOULD BE LIKING THE COLOR GREEN"

"ok guys, I like the color green"

This needs to become the standard answer to the electro capacitive vs mechanical switch argument.

[zslane]

"hey guys, I like the color purple"

"NO! THE COLOR PURPLE SUCKS, YOU SHOULD BE LIKING THE COLOR GREEN"

"ok guys, I like the color green"

Drazi nod with approval.

[bmilcs]

"hey guys, I like the color purple"

"NO! THE COLOR PURPLE SUCKS, YOU SHOULD BE LIKING THE COLOR GREEN"

"ok guys, I like the color green"

Ergodox is a tp4's favorite color.. it's way better than either purple or green or both.

Lol dude. Wanna see my literally unused Ergodox? I put Gat Blues in it and I don't know why; I should probably just resolder and give it another shot.



I forgot. I think you can remove the switch tops w/o desoldering right? I could make them lubed zealios

[tp4tissue]

Lol dude. Wanna see my literally unused Ergodox? I put Gat Blues in it and I don't know why; I should probably just resolder and give it another shot.


I forgot. I think you can remove the switch tops w/o desoldering right? I could make them lubed zealios

So... ur selling these to fund this new drug habit of yours ?

[bmilcs]

Lol dude. Wanna see my literally unused Ergodox? I put Gat Blues in it and I don't know why; I should probably just resolder and give it another shot.


I forgot. I think you can remove the switch tops w/o desoldering right? I could make them lubed zealios

So... ur selling these to fund this new drug habit of yours ?

No mas drogas por favor.

What switches are you using on your Ergodox? Also, got any spare DCS keycaps ? :-D

I think the one thing that turned me off the Ergodox was the annoying task of reprogramming it. There's fantastic software for teh Planck, that makes macro's and the like very, very easy. The Infinity Ergodox? Not so much.

[dantan]

But I'm finding the 45g & 55g Realforce 87U's to be harsh and cause me RSI after extended use. I don't know if it's the lack of sweet, sweet GMK keycaps or my beloved 62g thoroughly lubed ergoclears... but both 87u's are causing me issues. I think I attribute it to the PBT & plate-mounted switches, so I don't want to write Topre off just yet!

What do you suggest I do? Do I give in to the dreaded 60% HHKB and give that a go for a while? I am a firm believer in modification, and that may be why my KUL ES-87 has stood the test of time as boards pass in and out of my collection.

I am concerned mostly with the layout of the HHKB and the steep-ish angle of the case. I use F-keys constantly, as well as ctrl + shift + arrows and ctrl  + end, ctrl +pagedown, etc. Does anyone else here use this functionality constantly on their HHKB? I dread not loving and being less efficient with the topre life.

Thoughts?

Isn't the solution simple? Plum makes 35g that are nearly the same in feel as Topre. And much cheaper too! And programmable with PBT keycaps! Seriously, I think Topre's days are numbered.

[zslane]

If the Plum 35g feels anything like my Noppoo 35g then I can say without hesitation that it does not feel anything at all like a genuine Topre board. And the build quality is nothing like the build quality of a RealForce (or even a NovaTouch). Topre's dominance in the high-end electrocapacitive keyboard market is quite safe, I think.

[tp4tissue]

Lol dude. Wanna see my literally unused Ergodox? I put Gat Blues in it and I don't know why; I should probably just resolder and give it another shot.


I forgot. I think you can remove the switch tops w/o desoldering right? I could make them lubed zealios

So... ur selling these to fund this new drug habit of yours ?

No mas drogas por favor.

What switches are you using on your Ergodox? Also, got any spare DCS keycaps ? :-D

I think the one thing that turned me off the Ergodox was the annoying task of reprogramming it. There's fantastic software for teh Planck, that makes macro's and the like very, very easy. The Infinity Ergodox? Not so much.

I use the ergodox to type so.. haven't ran into any problemed usage scenarios on my end, because what I do is mostly text related.

[dante]

It's also worth mentioning every programmer worth their salt in Japan (that i know of) uses a topre

At least according to a few of my Japanese programmer friends

Japanese people preferring a Japanese product?   

[tp4tissue]

It's also worth mentioning every programmer worth their salt in Japan (that i know of) uses a topre

At least according to a few of my Japanese programmer friends

Japanese people preferring a Japanese product?   

Everything made and SOLD in domestic japan TO its domestic market is of higher industrial standards than anywhere else in the world. Hence higher costs..


However,   DO those higher standards produce any product which meaningfully improves the use cases consumers use them for..

HECK NO...  it's a keyboard , year 2017,    that's like going into the 1950s and marketing your forks as the ultimate fork,   True or not, it just doesn't matter.



Best example.. Russian piano conservatories..

They got the absolute BEST competition players anywhere in the world.. ANYWHERE.  these folks are perfect piano playing machines.. absolutely perfect..

But, the majority of their conservatories are spotted with some of the most broke down and crappiest pianos around..

Thats because the quality of the piano has little to no influence on the PLAYING of the piano..


Just as a keyboard has so very little influence on how people type/program/game

[zslane]

Just as a keyboard has so very little influence on how people type/program/game

I'm not sure what is meant by "how people type", but different keyboards definitely make the typing experience different for me. Even if there is little difference in average wpm or accuracy, the pleasure I get from using one keyboard versus another is an important factor in the overall experience. But I have found that my wpm and accuracy do change depending on the switch/keycap combination, and there are very good biomechanical reasons for this. So I would have to disagree quite strongly that a keyboard as very little influence on "how I type".

[tp4tissue]

Just as a keyboard has so very little influence on how people type/program/game

I'm not sure what is meant by "how people type", but different keyboards definitely make the typing experience different for me. Even if there is little difference in average wpm or accuracy, the pleasure I get from using one keyboard versus another is an important factor in the overall experience. But I have found that my wpm and accuracy do change depending on the switch/keycap combination, and there are very good biomechanical reasons for this. So I would have to disagree quite strongly that a keyboard as very little influence on "how I type".

Well, you're wrong..

The measurements and perspective of your claim is only relevant to NON-objective evaluations of any keyboard..


For example.. the newest samsung phone is faster, way faster,   but the majority of humans just use these to browse for and chat up females on facebook..

What has all the technological improvements of the newest phone really done..


The issue here is Threshold..  Once the design and speed reaches a certain level,  the bottle neck is USAGE,  the human user.


You can not meaningfully improve your life with a mechanically improved keyboard.


YOU CAN JUDGE the keyboard as being better, and it would be TRUE,   but that distinction has no hold on what you can accomplish in USAGE. Whatever you can DO with the keyboard is not bound by the keyboard's quality, above the $5 membrane dome boards.



Your experience, the feel, the sound, the mechanical tolerance.. all woefully insignificant relative to the time you've consumed evaluating these inconsequential properties...

[zslane]

Your experience, the feel, the sound, the mechanical tolerance.. all woefully insignificant relative to the time you've consumed evaluating these inconsequential properties...

I'm afraid you can only make that determination for yourself, not others, and certainly not for me.

Your statement is a broad refutation of all hobbies, which I find odd coming from someone spending so much time adding so many bytes to a forum dedicated to one.

[tp4tissue]

Your experience, the feel, the sound, the mechanical tolerance.. all woefully insignificant relative to the time you've consumed evaluating these inconsequential properties...

I'm afraid you can only make that determination for yourself, not others, and certainly not for me.

Your statement is a broad refutation of all hobbies, which I find odd coming from someone spending so much time adding so many bytes to a forum dedicated to one.

I do not refute the futility of my personal existence and actions..  hahahahhaa

But your claim that any mechanically different or superior keyboard has any influence on its utility to YOU is plain wrong.


Can a keyboard be Better,  YES

Are you the User better off with the better keyboard,  NO

[bmilcs]

I like when my keyboard goes clickity clack.

[digi]

Your experience, the feel, the sound, the mechanical tolerance.. all woefully insignificant relative to the time you've consumed evaluating these inconsequential properties...

I'm afraid you can only make that determination for yourself, not others, and certainly not for me.

Your statement is a broad refutation of all hobbies, which I find odd coming from someone spending so much time adding so many bytes to a forum dedicated to one.

I do not refute the futility of my personal existence and actions..  hahahahhaa

But your claim that any mechanically different or superior keyboard has any influence on its utility to YOU is plain wrong.


Can a keyboard be Better,  YES

Are you the User better off with the better keyboard,  NO

Since I bought cherry silvers my APM increased by 272

[drewafx]

.

[digi]

TP let me know if you need me to break it down with a math equation, I got your back..

[dantan]

If the Plum 35g feels anything like my Noppoo 35g then I can say without hesitation that it does not feel anything at all like a genuine Topre board. And the build quality is nothing like the build quality of a RealForce (or even a NovaTouch). Topre's dominance in the high-end electrocapacitive keyboard market is quite safe, I think.

I have tried all of them and honestly don't find them any different.

I've also got a friend who sold his Topre for a Royal Kludge preferring the changeable keycaps and the backlighting.

The folks who like Topre, are like wine lovers to me. Some people can appreciate wine a lot, and tell the difference between Chateau le'Expensive and Chateau de la Cheapo even if they are merely on opposite banks of the Garonne.

Some people can't tell the difference between wine and grape juice. I suspect quite a lot of people can't tell the difference between Topre, Noppoo, RK, Novatouch and Plum.

[digi]

If the Plum 35g feels anything like my Noppoo 35g then I can say without hesitation that it does not feel anything at all like a genuine Topre board. And the build quality is nothing like the build quality of a RealForce (or even a NovaTouch). Topre's dominance in the high-end electrocapacitive keyboard market is quite safe, I think.

I have tried all of them and honestly don't find them any different.

I've also got a friend who sold his Topre for a Royal Kludge preferring the changeable keycaps and the backlighting.

The folks who like Topre, are like wine lovers to me. Some people can appreciate wine a lot, and tell the difference between Chateau le'Expensive and Chateau de la Cheapo even if they are merely on opposite banks of the Garonne.

Some people can't tell the difference between wine and grape juice. I suspect quite a lot of people can't tell the difference between Topre, Noppoo, RK, Novatouch and Plum.

I like Boons Farm..

[zslane]

I have tried all of them and honestly don't find them any different.

I assure you that you would feel a difference between the switches in my boards. If not, then you can't tell the difference between tactile and linear switches period. My Noppoo EC108Pro feel like it has linear switches. My RealForce boards and my NovaTouch feel like they have tactile switches. That alone makes them very different, and makes the Chinese knock-off that I own feel nothing at all like the real Topres that I own.

[lzrdwzrd]

I've tried the real-force 87u 45 and 55, owned the hhkb p2 for a while, and now settled on a Leopold FC660c/eg

To me the Realforce 45 wasn't anything special, however the 55 was really nice but almost a little to heavy for my liking. (and I use cherry blacks for gaming )

The HHKB p2 was f'n amazing to type on and listen to. The layout was also really great and I got used to it fast. Then, I tried to use my laptop and I was all mixed up

So I traded the hhkb in for the newer Leo with dye sub caps and I love it. It feels somewhere in between the HHKB and the 87u 55g.


Loving topre for typing, but still using my 6gV2 for gaming. I find the tactile bumps a little distracting in FPS

[kmba]

You do make a very good point with 1, I have been keeping my eyes out on here & /r/mechmarket hoping to find the magic combo of price & timing on a decent 2nd hand Topre board. The weighting is the biggest issue I have but I think the 55g variant would be enough for me. I definitely prefer heavier switches (I'm typing this reply on 80g blacks ) but can be just fine with lighter ones too. I've thought about getting a Type Heaven to test drive Topre since they are more affordable boards but have have been told they lack the true Topre feel you get from a RF or HHKB. What do you Topre guys think about the Type Heavens? I do realize it's not gonna be as stout as a RF but does it really feel that different as to be not worth buying. I have noticed that the Type Heavens are very rarely mentioned when Topre is brought up.

You can't really compare the weight of topre switches to mx switches because feeling is more important than numbers.  Typing on an FC660C right now which has 45g domes (however, Leopold's domes are heavier than other 45g, more like 50g).  I have stock gateron blacks and stock gateron greens right here too, both of which have a peak force much higher than 50g, yet both of them feel lighter (the blacks significantly so) due to the force curve.

[dante]

I have tried all of them and honestly don't find them any different.

I assure you that you would feel a difference between the switches in my boards. If not, then you can't tell the difference between tactile and linear switches period. My Noppoo EC108Pro feel like it has linear switches. My RealForce boards and my NovaTouch feel like they have tactile switches. That alone makes them very different, and makes the Chinese knock-off that I own feel nothing at all like the real Topres that I own.

My sub $20 Dell rubberdome is more tactile than your beloved Realforce; It also doesn't need 4mm of travel to get the job done.

What is with the repeated "Chinese knock-off"?  It makes you sound like a Topre employee.

[ArchDill]

Not sure what all this other stuff is but Topre for me was love at first type. Just have a 45g HHKB and have a RF 87u 55g on order. Will most likely dome swap it.

[zslane]

My sub $20 Dell rubberdome is more tactile than your beloved Realforce; It also doesn't need 4mm of travel to get the job done.

That's terrific. But to be honest, being "more tactile" than a Topre, or having a shorter activation point isn't really high on my list of must-have qualities in a keyboard. But if they were then I too might be using a sub $20 Dell. 

What is with the repeated "Chinese knock-off"?

I put boards like the Noppoo EC108Pro (and its Royal Kludge-branded equivalent) in that category. My understanding is that they are from China. When I dissected mined, what I saw was a clear attempt to copy Topre design but without Topre build quality. This is a board that markets itself as equivalent to Topre but which neither feels nor sounds like one. One need not be a Topre employee (or even a Topre fan) to observe this as I have; one merely needs working eyes, ears, and fingers.

[dantan]

Listening to

I have tried all of them and honestly don't find them any different.

I assure you that you would feel a difference between the switches in my boards. If not, then you can't tell the difference between tactile and linear switches period. My Noppoo EC108Pro feel like it has linear switches. My RealForce boards and my NovaTouch feel like they have tactile switches. That alone makes them very different, and makes the Chinese knock-off that I own feel nothing at all like the real Topres that I own.

My sub $20 Dell rubberdome is more tactile than your beloved Realforce; It also doesn't need 4mm of travel to get the job done.

What is with the repeated "Chinese knock-off"?  It makes you sound like a Topre employee.

My sub $20 Dell rubberdome is more tactile than your beloved Realforce; It also doesn't need 4mm of travel to get the job done.

That's terrific. But to be honest, being "more tactile" than a Topre, or having a shorter activation point isn't really high on my list of must-have qualities in a keyboard. But if they were then I too might be using a sub $20 Dell. 

What is with the repeated "Chinese knock-off"?

I put boards like the Noppoo EC108Pro (and its Royal Kludge-branded equivalent) in that category. My understanding is that they are from China. When I dissected mined, what I saw was a clear attempt to copy Topre design but without Topre build quality. This is a board that markets itself as equivalent to Topre but which neither feels nor sounds like one. One need not be a Topre employee (or even a Topre fan) to observe this as I have; one merely needs working eyes, ears, and fingers.

Not everyone's brain and body works the same way. I can hear a CRT TV, I can hear a mosquito, and I have perfect pitch. In college I could sense the vibrations from people playing music 10 or more rooms away. But not everyone has similar hearing. If I can tell a very low G from a very high E flat and you can't, does that mean you have no ears?


Tactile to me is like Buckling Spring and Cherry Blues and Cherry Clears. Big Bump or Big Feedback in response to switch activation. Your standard light switches are tactile.

By that Big Bump standard, no Topre is tactile.

All Topres and the 'knock offs' fall kind of in the range of Big Bump Tactile vs Fully Smooth Linear.

35g 'knock off' is practically linear. 55g 'real thing' is nowhere as tactile as a random Model M.

[dantan]

But I'm finding the 45g & 55g Realforce 87U's to be harsh and cause me RSI after extended use. I don't know if it's the lack of sweet, sweet GMK keycaps or my beloved 62g thoroughly lubed ergoclears... but both 87u's are causing me issues. I think I attribute it to the PBT & plate-mounted switches, so I don't want to write Topre off just yet!

What do you suggest I do? Do I give in to the dreaded 60% HHKB and give that a go for a while? I am a firm believer in modification, and that may be why my KUL ES-87 has stood the test of time as boards pass in and out of my collection.

I am concerned mostly with the layout of the HHKB and the steep-ish angle of the case. I use F-keys constantly, as well as ctrl + shift + arrows and ctrl  + end, ctrl +pagedown, etc. Does anyone else here use this functionality constantly on their HHKB? I dread not loving and being less efficient with the topre life.

Thoughts?

I would suggest you try out other switch types. Topre lovers will tell you they love Topre, but as you can see, there's a lot of people who don't appreciate Topre and they are the large majority and I quite doubt if we are all idiots.