geekhack

geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: FRANCO on Thu, 18 June 2020, 11:54:44

Title: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: FRANCO on Thu, 18 June 2020, 11:54:44


Important Update (11/2): Due to life getting in the way (nothing bad though!), I will be closing this IC. Fredington will be picking this up soon though!

Hi Everyone!
Fredington and I teamed up again to bring you DCS Alps Pingmaster!

Like many in this hobby, I discovered Alps switches and ended up loving them. But unfortunately, there isn’t that much choice for Alps lovers when it comes to keycaps. It seems like the only choices are Tai Hoa sets (but dolch is always out of stock), the sets from those two GBs from back in the 2010’s, or a yellowed vintage set. And good luck finding a set with a 1u Zero keycap for the numpad. Honestly, as a fan of Alps switches, I kind of just want a new keycap set haha

A few key things about this set:

If you are interested in this set, please fill out this form here (https://forms.gle/B9E2JH6hvWCPzdSz9)! There also may be a question regarding future sets ;)


Kits:

Base Kit
(https://i.imgur.com/sIP3j34.png)
After even more deliberation, we felt it was best to make the set more faithful to the Pingmaster, but incorporating both text and icon modifiers into the base kit, using inspiration from both theChinese and Japanese variants
The legends have also been changed to more accurately reflect the Pingmaster legends. Specifically, we moved the English legends from the top left, to the bottom left


JIS
(https://i.imgur.com/8FF6SuK.png)
Offers full JIS layout compatibility; accents included

Numpad
(https://i.imgur.com/PTkjo8t.png)
We initially wanted the base kit to include everything, but due to the legends, it got a bit pricey. So we split out the Numpad to make it a bit more affordable.


Split Spacebars
(https://i.imgur.com/VQUMZ9w.png)
We added a Split Spacebar kit for more compatibility with various layouts. Please note which spacebars are marked as ABS



Other Considerations:

Standard SP Color Codes:


Special Acknowledgements:
(https://i.imgur.com/0xdleLi.png)

To-do’s:

Changelog
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Ulliam on Thu, 18 June 2020, 11:57:28
You had me at DCS but hit damn. Amazing looking set sign me up for 5
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: xIHA on Thu, 18 June 2020, 11:58:24
Yes!~ More alps keysets please!!!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Thu, 18 June 2020, 11:58:35
Cool! I love this set, but I wish it was SA PBT or MT3. Also, BAE! WHAT?!   :eek: :D  :thumb:

Renders please
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: d.caminero on Thu, 18 June 2020, 12:05:51
Very interested in this, already filled the form.
BTW, you should change the first question of the form, since it will only let you choose one option, you should use checkboxes.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Capsy on Thu, 18 June 2020, 12:07:46
DCS PBT. Sign me up.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: qriousgabriel on Thu, 18 June 2020, 12:13:14
You run it and I’ll join, that simple.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: mrkevint on Thu, 18 June 2020, 12:14:31
I'm definitely interested. I filled out the form.

I have a Blue Alps TKL that is begging for these key caps haha. SimpleJA is one of my favourite sets.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Shadohhh on Thu, 18 June 2020, 12:51:54
Filled out the form. Hopefully this makes it past IC. I haven't seen SP dye subs quality in awhile. Hopefully it's still decent.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: gnhuy91 on Thu, 18 June 2020, 13:05:26
yas!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Gert Fischer on Thu, 18 June 2020, 13:30:50
renders when?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Fredington on Thu, 18 June 2020, 13:57:24
renders when?

The problem with renders of DCS is that nobody actually has bothered to make DCS models, so they end up using cherry models, which is not exactly the same thing and could be potentially misleading. Not saying that renders are off the table completely, but just wanted to set expectations.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Beni986 on Thu, 18 June 2020, 13:58:16
Definitely interested in this :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 18 June 2020, 14:13:40
Good ****.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: FRANCO on Thu, 18 June 2020, 15:17:57
Very interested in this, already filled the form.
BTW, you should change the first question of the form, since it will only let you choose one option, you should use checkboxes.

Thank you for pointing out! Changed it a bit after you posted =)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: J3ff_Leopard on Thu, 18 June 2020, 15:30:52
Absolutely yes. I have 3 Alps builds planned for the future so any custom caps with wider compatibility would be great. Love seeing this and I'll keep an eye on the thread.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: ilikerustoo on Thu, 18 June 2020, 16:10:36
Interested for sure
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: bibobim on Thu, 18 June 2020, 16:32:30
Ah yes. PBT and dye-sub caps for my lovely alps
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Zeelobby on Thu, 18 June 2020, 16:58:25
Always need more Alps caps.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: stickerliu on Thu, 18 June 2020, 20:49:41
need more alps caps too!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Mcnos on Thu, 18 June 2020, 21:25:12
hi, yes
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Pluto19 on Fri, 19 June 2020, 01:28:59
I would love to see the inclusion of the ISO keys in the Base kit instead of the Numpad kit.
Also ~ would love to see the removal of one row 4 1.25u shift as you have one in both the Base kit as well as the Numpad kit.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: Lil on Fri, 19 June 2020, 06:09:34
Any chance of Alice spacebars being added to one of the kits? I want to do an alps build of my PhysiX at some point
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: FZ on Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:43:00
Happy to see this and I think the colorway was a good choice. I echo the thoughts of others regarding DCS as the profile for it. Personally I'd like to see this with the KAT sculpt. Actually, ideally, I'd like to see an Alps set with the Apple IIc profile but I think that is a bit of a niche request currently.

Good luck with it. I will definitely be looking forward to the group buy for this.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: kakan on Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:45:55
I'm very interested, good luck with running it.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: TheInverseKey on Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:24:29
Very interested, which stabs are you going to use for this set?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: dallman5 on Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:40:19
Nice looking set! Any change for an icon mod option? Some pingmasters did have icon mods after all  ;D
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: zrrion on Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:47:04
Very interested, which stabs are you going to use for this set?

this and what stabilizer does the BAE use? I'm contractually obligated to join any gb with a BAE but only if it uses a reasonable stabilizer. If it uses alps stabilizers and a rod or dummy switch for the top of the BAE then it would actually be compatible with the things I want to put it on.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: segami on Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:22:19
I'm in.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: nu_types on Fri, 19 June 2020, 13:34:41
Definitely interested! These caps actually remind me more of the Japanese IBM P70 keycaps or the IBM JX keycaps (but with katakana instead of hiragana) than the pingmaster... but that makes me like the caps even more.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: FRANCO on Fri, 19 June 2020, 15:45:01
Very interested, which stabs are you going to use for this set?

this and what stabilizer does the BAE use? I'm contractually obligated to join any gb with a BAE but only if it uses a reasonable stabilizer. If it uses alps stabilizers and a rod or dummy switch for the top of the BAE then it would actually be compatible with the things I want to put it on.

The BAE should use MX stabilizers as I don't believe SP has the tooling necessary for Alps/Matias stabilizers
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: Poblopuablo on Tue, 23 June 2020, 09:34:16
Will this be compatible with lunar aek? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96112.0
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: Fredington on Tue, 23 June 2020, 09:37:26
Will this be compatible with lunar aek? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96112.0

Yes.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: Full on Tue, 23 June 2020, 11:14:54
I am 100% in on this!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: AuDiTH on Tue, 23 June 2020, 11:50:35
Looks great, would be down for a set :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: TheInverseKey on Tue, 23 June 2020, 19:10:55
Very interested, which stabs are you going to use for this set?

this and what stabilizer does the BAE use? I'm contractually obligated to join any gb with a BAE but only if it uses a reasonable stabilizer. If it uses alps stabilizers and a rod or dummy switch for the top of the BAE then it would actually be compatible with the things I want to put it on.

The BAE should use MX stabilizers as I don't believe SP has the tooling necessary for Alps/Matias stabilizers


This is quite sad to hear as only Alphas are really going to be usable with most Alps Customs.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 23 June 2020, 21:58:01
will this keyset have a center stem capslock for kingsaver compat
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: dallman5 on Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:00:38
will this keyset have a center stem capslock for kingsaver compat

Why though? Kingsaver would require all new right side mods too since they’re 0.25u longer than the standard.

Also curious to know what kind of stabilizers this will be using as I’m not very familiar with SP’s PBT alps caps.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: nu_types on Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:55:06
will this keyset have a center stem capslock for kingsaver compat

Why though? Kingsaver would require all new right side mods too since they’re 0.25u longer than the standard.

Also curious to know what kind of stabilizers this will be using as I’m not very familiar with SP’s PBT alps caps.

It will use MX stabs. It's been stated that SP does not have the moulds for Alps stabs.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: garbo on Wed, 24 June 2020, 09:36:54
will this keyset have a center stem capslock for kingsaver compat

Why though? Kingsaver would require all new right side mods too since they’re 0.25u longer than the standard.


I figured that was a joke on the question about Lunar support, since using a set like this on either of them would be sort of missing the point of the case designs.

(The Wang caps lock stem is just the same as any other non-stepped Alps one anyway. DCS doesn't have the stab mounts but it doesn't really matter)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: it99 on Wed, 24 June 2020, 16:25:35
oh my god this is so beautiful i need this for my blue alps tkl, was gonna sla print some mx to alps adapters but i think i would much rather get this set. it would be amazing in SA or MT3 to be that much more like the pingmaster's caps (quite high profile iirc) but I'd imagine that the tooling necessary for that would cost quite a bit. any ideas of when you'd be considering running this?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: syke on Thu, 25 June 2020, 05:35:31
nice
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/19: Small Update - Spacebar will be in ABS)
Post by: Yahhuy212 on Thu, 25 June 2020, 09:21:33
Any chance for special F row keys for AEK II ?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster
Post by: FRANCO on Thu, 25 June 2020, 14:47:07
Very interested, which stabs are you going to use for this set?

this and what stabilizer does the BAE use? I'm contractually obligated to join any gb with a BAE but only if it uses a reasonable stabilizer. If it uses alps stabilizers and a rod or dummy switch for the top of the BAE then it would actually be compatible with the things I want to put it on.

The BAE should use MX stabilizers as I don't believe SP has the tooling necessary for Alps/Matias stabilizers


This is quite sad to hear as only Alphas are really going to be usable with most Alps Customs.

I feel you! I actually have been researching this and there are Alps to MX stab adapters. I'll try to find a link
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: mode on Thu, 25 June 2020, 15:20:10
100% in

any chance of some more iso keys though? People who want ISO are going to pay for it if it costs a bit more and has more coverage.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: lucid211 on Thu, 25 June 2020, 17:06:50
 :D :D :D :D hi yes!!!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: Little4Real on Thu, 25 June 2020, 19:44:03
Easily buying two sets (including numpad, icons, and spacebars)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: mode on Fri, 26 June 2020, 03:56:51
Also, why not have alphas in the icon kit? or even have seperate alphas, If you want alphas then you've gotta have two sets of mods, and it'd be better to have two full usable sets.

Gotta say, I think it doesn't make sense to split iso unless you add considerably more keys to the set, such a small ISO kit may as well be rolled into the main one. Again, please make ISO icon mods possible, add an icon small shift!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: platypusduck on Fri, 26 June 2020, 08:19:57
I filled in the IC form, but I forgot to mention the following errors:

– All Enter legends seem to be spelling out "ESOTA–" instead of "ENTA–". It should be エター, not エター. The difference is subtle, but it's noticeable.

– Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alt should be アルト, not アールト.

I'm all for new Alps keysets, but I'm going to be honest, all these silly direct translations of modifiers are getting out of hand. Trendiness aside, if good Japanese legends are what you're after, I think it kinda makes more sense to use ai03's translations (https://kb.ai03.me/projects/simple-ja.html), wouldn't it?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: mode on Fri, 26 June 2020, 16:02:53
Also, why not have alphas in the icon kit? or even have seperate alphas, If you want the icons then you've gotta have two sets of mods, and it'd be better to have two full usable sets.

Gotta say, I think it doesn't make sense to split iso unless you add considerably more keys to the set, such a small ISO kit may as well be rolled into the main one. Again, please make ISO icon mods possible, add an icon small shift!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: bobgr8 on Fri, 26 June 2020, 16:23:27
Recent GMK ABS spacebars are also warped, so be careful!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: dallman5 on Fri, 26 June 2020, 16:27:40
Glad to see icon mods in the mix! Like others said, it might be nice to have alphas be separate from mods (i.e. alphas + jp mods + icon mods as separate kits). I know for SP SA and MX DCS kits this is common because of how their pricing works out but I’m less familiar with their DCS PBT Alps pricing structure.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: FRANCO on Fri, 26 June 2020, 17:15:17
Also, why not have alphas in the icon kit? or even have seperate alphas, If you want alphas then you've gotta have two sets of mods, and it'd be better to have two full usable sets.

Gotta say, I think it doesn't make sense to split iso unless you add considerably more keys to the set, such a small ISO kit may as well be rolled into the main one. Again, please make ISO icon mods possible, add an icon small shift!

Glad to see icon mods in the mix! Like others said, it might be nice to have alphas be separate from mods (i.e. alphas + jp mods + icon mods as separate kits). I know for SP SA and MX DCS kits this is common because of how their pricing works out but I’m less familiar with their DCS PBT Alps pricing structure.

I filled in the IC form, but I forgot to mention the following errors:

– All Enter legends seem to be spelling out "ESOTA–" instead of "ENTA–". It should be エター, not エター. The difference is subtle, but it's noticeable.

– Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alt should be アルト, not アールト.

I'm all for new Alps keysets, but I'm going to be honest, all these silly direct translations of modifiers are getting out of hand. Trendiness aside, if good Japanese legends are what you're after, I think it kinda makes more sense to use ai03's translations (https://kb.ai03.me/projects/simple-ja.html), wouldn't it?

Glad to see icon mods in the mix! Like others said, it might be nice to have alphas be separate from mods (i.e. alphas + jp mods + icon mods as separate kits). I know for SP SA and MX DCS kits this is common because of how their pricing works out but I’m less familiar with their DCS PBT Alps pricing structure.

We did consider breaking out alphas into its own kit with JP mods and Icon mods as separate kits. But after Fredington and I thought through it, we felt that perhaps we should have been a bit more faithful to the Pingmaster legends from the outset.

We understand that the Katakana mods weren't faithful to the Pingmaster, but it was strictly a design choice as we both liked the Katakana mods (still do), but definitely understand that the decision to go with katakana mods was basically taken from a sample size of two.

So in the next update, we will be staying as faithful as possible to the Pingmaster and doing a mixture of icon and Japanese text modifiers (i.e. we may not have a separate modifier kit). Also, in keeping with the approach of staying as faithful as possible, we will also be revising the Alpha legends themselves to be more in line with the Pingmaster's. Instead of having the Alphas top left, the Pingmaster actually has its alpha legends on the bottom left.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: keyboardkrill on Sat, 27 June 2020, 13:24:27
When you run this, I will join.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: platypusduck on Sun, 28 June 2020, 13:49:05
We understand that the Katakana mods weren't faithful to the Pingmaster, but it was strictly a design choice as we both liked the Katakana mods (still do), but definitely understand that the decision to go with katakana mods was basically taken from a sample size of two.

So in the next update, we will be staying as faithful as possible to the Pingmaster and doing a mixture of icon and Japanese text modifiers (i.e. we may not have a separate modifier kit). Also, in keeping with the approach of staying as faithful as possible, we will also be revising the Alpha legends themselves to be more in line with the Pingmaster's. Instead of having the Alphas top left, the Pingmaster actually has its alpha legends on the bottom left.

A respectable decision. The best that we can do is support your efforts to make this set as good as possible. :)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: it99 on Wed, 01 July 2020, 16:43:22
I respect your decisions to be as close to the original source as possible, but I honestly like the legends right now. I feel like it will look odd for alphas to be in the bottom left on non hi-profile keys, and tbh I like the original legends you have made in Japanese, making a mix between the two to fit the icon legends of the pingmaster isn't the move in my opinion. It is your set, and you guys have the right to make the final decisions, but I just wanted to give my two cents as someone who decided to miss out on other sets for this who is kinda regretting it because they like how the design was originally and not with some of the proposed changes. I don't want to be rude at all and I completely respect your decisions, but again, just wanted to give my two cents. I mean, if you somehow got this done in SA or MT3, i'd be fine with the legends fitting the pingmaster more closely, but tbh if you are gonna do it in DCS I like it how you have made it so far.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: mode on Thu, 02 July 2020, 12:48:45
SP doesn't offer SA with alps stems, and I highly doubt whoever it is that manufactures MT3 would offer alps stems.

DCS, DSA and XDA and TaiHao OEM are the only profiles manufactured anymore that I'm aware of. XDA being the only thick offering.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: mcmaxmcmc on Sat, 04 July 2020, 06:51:37
I can't help but be ticked off by the upper left Latin legends.

I know you guys said that the Pingmaster was just an inspiration for this keyset, but I can't help but think that's just a facade to a normal JP Alps set.  I do notice the front lettering on the V, B and N keys which I do appreciate, but I would like at least a poll or something regarding where the Latin legends should be, as the originals have them on the bottom left corner.  It might look even nicer.  (Check out the Katakana-variant IBM 5556 Multistation keyboard
More
(http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/4773313/pcb1.jpg)
-- that's what I'd imagine it to be similar to, though perhaps that may just be a far-fetched dream.)

Other people have said that they liked the legends being on the top left instead of the original bottom left, and I'm fine with it myself, but it just isn't very faithful to the original.

As for the modifiers, the JP Pingmaster has Kanji text for the mods but the Chinese variant does have some Icon mods for the Shift and Caps Lock key, which this set doesn't look familiar to.  What this looks familiar to is just the bog standard GMK icon mods, which leads me further into the facade theory.  I do see the Nav cluster though, and I do appreciate the difference there.  I'm not sure if that's for the better or worse, though, but I do appreciate the work.

And as for the errors, that has already been explained by another fellow:
More
I filled in the IC form, but I forgot to mention the following errors:

– All Enter legends seem to be spelling out "ESOTA–" instead of "ENTA–". It should be エター, not エター. The difference is subtle, but it's noticeable.

– Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alt should be アルト, not アールト.

I'm all for new Alps keysets, but I'm going to be honest, all these silly direct translations of modifiers are getting out of hand. Trendiness aside, if good Japanese legends are what you're after, I think it kinda makes more sense to use ai03's translations (https://kb.ai03.me/projects/simple-ja.html), wouldn't it?


Along with the caps having MX stabilizers, it is a very hard bite for me, unfortunately.  It's going to all depend on the pricing, which I frankly don't have much of a high hope for.  I most likely will not be getting this set, but I won't stop others from getting it or liking it.  I do welcome change, though, so perhaps this opinion of mine will be obsolete in the near future.

I really, really do appreciate you guys for bringing this IC upfront and am very glad that many people are interested, but as of right now this set ticks me off the wrong way.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: konstantin on Sat, 04 July 2020, 12:25:20
Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

(https://i.imgur.com/emrOef5.png)

However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout (https://imgur.com/0QqoSc7) of the original Pingmaster (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=91568.0;attach=178315;image); and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

(https://i.imgur.com/LbrR4Yt.png)

The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: konstantin on Sat, 04 July 2020, 12:39:41
On a related note, I also recommend changing the alpha keys in the ISO kit as follows:
This will not only match the above standard ANSI JP layout, but will also allow your set to cover JIS keyboards. If you also add the following two keys to the ISO kit, your set will have complete JIS alpha coverage, matching that of the original Pingmaster:
See GMK Mecha-01's base kit (https://mitormk.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/mecha-01_base.png) for an example of these keys.

ISO
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/DHLsjt2.png)

Split out ISO into its own kit and included accents


Edit: Here is a KLE mockup of what I mean (additional Enter keys omitted):

(https://i.imgur.com/eRjyqPm.png)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: FRANCO on Sat, 04 July 2020, 16:39:36
Based on feedback, we separated the Alphas from the modifiers to give people a choice between Icon and Katakana mods

Also, we unfortunately had to remove the BAE =/
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: mcmaxmcmc on Sat, 04 July 2020, 18:01:35
Man, I'm loving this set now.  Those alphas are looking good!

I also notice some corrections have been done to the JP Legends as well, which I do appreciate.  I still want the Katakana legends to be correct to the Windows standard though, as konstantin has pointed out
More
Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/emrOef5.png)


However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout (https://imgur.com/1BwQIfe) of the original Pingmaster (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=91568.0;attach=178315;image); and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/LbrR4Yt.png)


The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).
, just so it can be usable to the rare chance somebody actually uses the legends -- but I'm fine with whatever.

Also, for the numpad Enter key with the vertical legend, I believe the dash at the end of エンター is vertical because it's written vertically.  I could be wrong though, but I'm somewhat sure that this is the case.

Very nice! Loving these changes.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: remdell on Sat, 04 July 2020, 18:12:40
Wow! I'm glad others in the IC agreed on the alpha adjustment. This set looks so good with the latin alphas bottom left-aligned and the japanese sublegends at the bottom right. It's very faithful to the original.
While we get no more big ass enter, I appreciate the mod options given for this alps set.

One thing I would like to see added to the vintage set would be the outlined fat arrows on that were middle-aligned on the og pingmaster's shift keys, as well as the lock icon (middle-aligned) on the capslock key.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: dallman5 on Sat, 04 July 2020, 19:53:01
These kits look great, thanks for being so receptive!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: joecoolbob on Sat, 04 July 2020, 21:03:08
Honestly, I'm not a fan of the Numpad enter key. I understand that you wanted to use 'エンター' vertically, but the last dash should be vertical, not horizontal.

Also, I might be wrong but the 'ン' in the Numpad enter is incorrect. Looking at your other legends you have 'エンター' correct, but the Numpad enter is 'エソター'.

edit: Same for the alpha set too. There is two 'ソ' keys instead of one 'ソ' and one 'ン'. Specifically the 'Y' and 'C' key. Japanese is such a weird language. If you need help lmk. I can help.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: FRANCO on Sat, 04 July 2020, 21:16:26
Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/emrOef5.png)


However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout (https://imgur.com/1BwQIfe) of the original Pingmaster (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=91568.0;attach=178315;image); and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/LbrR4Yt.png)


The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).

Man, I'm loving this set now.  Those alphas are looking good!

I also notice some corrections have been done to the JP Legends as well, which I do appreciate.  I still want the Katakana legends to be correct to the Windows standard though, as konstantin has pointed out
More
Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/emrOef5.png)


However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout (https://imgur.com/1BwQIfe) of the original Pingmaster (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=91568.0;attach=178315;image); and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/LbrR4Yt.png)


The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).
, just so it can be usable to the rare chance somebody actually uses the legends -- but I'm fine with whatever.

Also, for the numpad Enter key with the vertical legend, I believe the dash at the end of エンター is vertical because it's written vertically.  I could be wrong though, but I'm somewhat sure that this is the case.

Very nice! Loving these changes.

On a related note, I also recommend changing the alpha keys in the ISO kit as follows:
  • R3 \|ヘ¥\|ム
  • R4 <>  <>ロ
This will not only match the above standard ANSI JP layout, but will also allow your set to cover JIS keyboards. If you also add the following two keys to the ISO kit, your set will have complete JIS alpha coverage, matching that of the original Pingmaster:
  • add R1 1u `~ー (alpha-colored)
  • add R1 1u 半角 / 全角 or 半/全 (mod-colored)
See GMK Mecha-01's base kit (https://mitormk.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/mecha-01_base.png) for an example of these keys.

ISO
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/DHLsjt2.png)

Split out ISO into its own kit and included accents


Edit: Here is a KLE mockup of what I mean (additional Enter keys omitted):

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/eRjyqPm.png)


Man, I'm loving this set now.  Those alphas are looking good!

I also notice some corrections have been done to the JP Legends as well, which I do appreciate.  I still want the Katakana legends to be correct to the Windows standard though, as konstantin has pointed out
More
Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/emrOef5.png)


However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout (https://imgur.com/1BwQIfe) of the original Pingmaster (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=91568.0;attach=178315;image); and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/LbrR4Yt.png)


The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).
, just so it can be usable to the rare chance somebody actually uses the legends -- but I'm fine with whatever.

Also, for the numpad Enter key with the vertical legend, I believe the dash at the end of エンター is vertical because it's written vertically.  I could be wrong though, but I'm somewhat sure that this is the case.

Very nice! Loving these changes.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of the Numpad enter key. I understand that you wanted to use 'エンター' vertically, but the last dash should be vertical, not horizontal.

Also, I might be wrong but the 'ン' in the Numpad enter is incorrect. Looking at your other legends you have 'エンター' correct, but the Numpad enter is 'エソター'.

edit: Same for the alpha set too. There is two 'ソ' keys instead of one 'ソ' and one 'ン'. Specifically the 'Y' and 'C' key. Japanese is such a weird language. If you need help lmk. I can help.

Seriously appreciate all of your feedback here! The Japanese legends definitely aren't perfect, so we're going to be tweaking them a bit more and take your feedback heavily into consideration when doing so
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: FRANCO on Sat, 04 July 2020, 21:42:35
Ooof...I also just realized that I completely forgot to put a section to collect emails...just added!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 06 July 2020, 10:38:16
I created a guide for katakana sublegends which you may find useful:

(https://i.imgur.com/3gS74GT.png)
(KLE link) (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/af2fbe03793ad24dc9c06bbbccd1d914)

I recommend including all of the keys except for the red ones. The legends here are Cherry-style, but you can adapt them to match your set. Take note of the sizing and positioning of the various sublegends.

The mod-colored key labeled Any can be the 半角 / 全角 key I mentioned above, or a text novelty like IBM.


Edit: updated link
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/4 Update! Completely Revamped kits!)
Post by: newtype_ on Thu, 09 July 2020, 11:45:40
Will absolutely buy a set for my brown alps build. Great work.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (6/25 Update! New Kits! Added Icon Modifiers!)
Post by: Fredington on Mon, 13 July 2020, 08:09:19
Check out the Katakana-variant IBM 5556 Multistation keyboard
More
Show Image
(http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/4773313/pcb1.jpg)
-- that's what I'd imagine it to be similar to

Thanks for posting that Multistation. It'll help build out the mods for the overhaul we are planning ;)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: FRANCO on Tue, 28 July 2020, 10:46:42
Updated the kits back into one base kit that includes both alphas and modifiers as we decided to combine both text and icon mods from the Japanese and Chinese variants of the Pingmaster

We think this is more faithful to the name, and honestly should have been this way from the beginning.  And we understand if people are disappointed, but we hope you like the changes as much as we do
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 28 July 2020, 10:51:38
...
Split Spacebars
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/VQUMZ9w.png)

We added a Split Spacebar kit for more compatibility with various layouts. Please note which spacebars are marked as ABS

...

Can you confirm with Signature Plastics that the spacebar kit has convex spacebar keys instead of just blank keys?
Perhaps I'm not so updated, I haven't heard that SP has the required curved convex spacebar molds or has done any such production in the past.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: FRANCO on Tue, 28 July 2020, 11:37:28
Can you confirm with Signature Plastics that the spacebar kit has convex spacebar keys instead of just blank keys?
Perhaps I'm not so updated, I haven't heard that SP has the required curved convex spacebar molds or has done any such production in the past.

Good call out! I'll check it out and follow up once I hear back
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Tue, 28 July 2020, 11:45:49
Not sure I love all the changes, (BAE!  :-[ :confused: ) But doesn't matter. I'm pretty much in no matter what  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: bibobim on Tue, 28 July 2020, 11:52:06
Since the kit has been finalized, do you have any estimated price for the base kit? I personally like the alpha and mods on the base kit on the current verion.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: FRANCO on Tue, 28 July 2020, 13:08:42
Since the kit has been finalized, do you have any estimated price for the base kit? I personally like the alpha and mods on the base kit on the current verion.

We haven't set up vendors yet, so we currently don't have pricing to share. Will be sure to provide an update once we do!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: kajahtaa on Tue, 28 July 2020, 13:33:57
Japanese Pingmaster had 1.25 Return?

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: mode on Tue, 28 July 2020, 15:29:59
Are you going for homing scoops or bars? If scoops, can you get assurances that they won't forget to do them like they did for alps throwback?

I am pro scoops.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: gnho on Sat, 08 August 2020, 00:26:52
Any update?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: Little4Real on Sat, 08 August 2020, 01:33:54
Hope this keyset is ran soon-ish!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: Friendship on Tue, 18 August 2020, 16:44:40
Amassing my alps components now and would love to sport this set on the build. i made an account just to put my name in the hat and stoke the flames of creation.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: it99 on Mon, 07 September 2020, 06:53:43
Dang I really wanted the set back with v1.1 (alphas and 2 mod kits) but now idk, I might go for Hineys Alps BoW keycaps set. But I respect the changes you made for authenticity ig. Imo even if it's not authentic it's fine since you should make a keyset you truly enjoy - if it has jp mods, so be it, since that might be what you prefer or something you find more pleasing than the original source material. Just my 2 cents tho and I still respect your changes so far. Just would kindly ask if you'd consider bringing it back to v1.1 haha
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: DetectiveNio on Fri, 11 September 2020, 22:42:56
Any updates? Love dcs Yuri but this is some endgame set :P
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: i luv chuletas on Tue, 15 September 2020, 19:37:03
Any updates on this? Def. interesting in picking up at least two base kits!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: Little4Real on Tue, 15 September 2020, 20:39:00
Dang I really wanted the set back with v1.1 (alphas and 2 mod kits) but now idk, I might go for Hineys Alps BoW keycaps set. But I respect the changes you made for authenticity ig. Imo even if it's not authentic it's fine since you should make a keyset you truly enjoy - if it has jp mods, so be it, since that might be what you prefer or something you find more pleasing than the original source material. Just my 2 cents tho and I still respect your changes so far. Just would kindly ask if you'd consider bringing it back to v1.1 haha

Sounds like you'd prefer the Cherry-style dyesubs, opposed to staying true to the Pingmaster.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: PigeonsLikeBread on Fri, 25 September 2020, 19:34:47
Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 25 September 2020, 19:52:09
Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

nope, they are the same thickness.  Thin but pretty :)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: directheatedtriode on Fri, 25 September 2020, 20:18:51
Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

If your concern was regard to sound DCS Alps sound really good.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: keyboardkrill on Sun, 27 September 2020, 02:06:03
Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

If your concern was regard to sound DCS Alps sound really good.

I got DCS Yuri, and although I love it, I do worry about the the thinness of the keycap stem. There is a vod of Mr. Keebs accidently snapping off a DCS stem when he was just trying to remove a keycap. Still interested in this set, I just need to be REALLY careful when taking off caps. Might even buy an extra set jic.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: mode on Sun, 27 September 2020, 06:51:25
Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

If your concern was regard to sound DCS Alps sound really good.

I got DCS Yuri, and although I love it, I do worry about the the thinness of the keycap stem. There is a vod of Mr. Keebs accidently snapping off a DCS stem when he was just trying to remove a keycap. Still interested in this set, I just need to be REALLY careful when taking off caps. Might even buy an extra set jic.

TBH, i've snapped thick PBT alps stems by accident, I've always been careful with my Yuri set, but it's not that tight a fit in my blue and orange alps. DSA lightcycle was bad as it was both a really tight fit (apparently, I didn't own the set) and doubleshot, which is inherently weaker than singleshot, and DSA alps doesn't have any stem supports like DCS does.

I don't think there are any alps sets which won't snap if one side of your puller slips, as long as you're careful of that you should be fine.

Surprised at people saying DCS sounds good, it doesn't sound bad, but it's thin abs, alps still generally sound good, but they're not and never will be thocky caps.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: Little4Real on Sun, 27 September 2020, 13:39:47
Surprised at people saying DCS sounds good, it doesn't sound bad, but it's thin abs, alps still generally sound good, but they're not and never will be thocky caps.

It'll actually be PBT, like DCS Alps Throwback. DCS PBT is a little "thockier" than the ABS variant.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: mode on Sun, 27 September 2020, 15:38:52
Surprised at people saying DCS sounds good, it doesn't sound bad, but it's thin abs, alps still generally sound good, but they're not and never will be thocky caps.

It'll actually be PBT, like DCS Alps Throwback. DCS PBT is a little "thockier" than the ABS variant.

I know, was just referring to the characteristics of Yuri, as I have that set, I didn't get alps throwback.

I wouldn't describe pbt as inherently more thocky though, just a different timbre. I certainly do prefer it.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (7/28 Update! Completely Revamped kits! Again!)
Post by: Friendship on Thu, 29 October 2020, 08:44:47
any update on this set? :)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: DetectiveNio on Tue, 03 November 2020, 13:45:32
Aw man :( hope this set gets picked up soon. Sourcing alps caps is a pain
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: i luv chuletas on Wed, 04 November 2020, 08:57:45
Damn, was seriously looking forward to this.
Hopefully it comes back up sooner rather than later, there's real demand for an ALPS pbt dcs keycap set  :'(
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: gnho on Wed, 18 November 2020, 09:40:45
I have been following this set and SA 8010. I hope both will run soon!!

Is there a discord server where I can get the update?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: ephemeral25 on Sat, 28 November 2020, 10:43:41
Definitely interested, Base kit is a little kitty please add ISO and numpad in it to reduice costs.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: konstantin on Sat, 28 November 2020, 10:54:32
Definitely interested, Base kit is a little kitty please add ISO and numpad in it to reduice costs.

There are no pricing overheads to splitting kits with SP, and therefore there are no cost reductions nor other benefits to putting ISO and numpad in the base kit.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: mode on Sat, 28 November 2020, 16:51:45
Definitely interested, Base kit is a little kitty please add ISO and numpad in it to reduice costs.

There are no pricing overheads to splitting kits with SP, and therefore there are no cost reductions nor other benefits to putting ISO and numpad in the base kit.

The iso kit never gets made when it’s separate though, yet I for one would not buy any set without one. there are still benefits for just having one complete set and moq.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)
Post by: Zephyraeon on Fri, 02 April 2021, 17:43:10
Have there been any updates on this? I couldn't find the supposed new thread which I assumed would be up by now. Really looking forward to Pingmaster - hope it still happens

EDIT: Posted this question only a couple days early! New IC thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112117.0