Author Topic: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions  (Read 38144 times)

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Offline ander

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #250 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 17:40:43 »
Quote from: zslane
Since the springs are tied to the type of case, I wonder which of the two are driving people's choices. Are people getting the case they want and simply accepting the springs that are tied to it, or are they getting the spring resistance they want and settling for the case?

I'd guess the springs are the primary influence. Most of us would have a slight preference for one board material over another—but I think we're fundamentally typers, and how a board feels and responds always (well, almost always) takes precedence over how it looks.

Quote from: fohat.digs
I am holding off for 3 months in anticipation of the tactile model... If that never happens, I may be kicking myself.

So this would be a tactical decision.

Quote from: XMIT
I'm chatting with the manufacturer to see if we can, behind the scenes, just offer more spring weight options. Think of it as having the "alternate weight" springs pre-installed. I don't want to bait and switch orders, but I don't want to make hundreds of people take their boards apart either.

I don't think many of us have trouble figuring out which weight we'd prefer. You're offering what amounts to a choice between MX Red and Black, and most of us are familiar enough with those to know what'd work better for us.

As far as the "bait and switch" (oy, deliberate pun?), I think it's generous enough to offer a set of the other springs for so little, so we can try some to confirm we made the right choice.

Quote from: Niomosy
For a mere $5 more, I get the springs on the off chance I might need or want them.  For that price, I'll take them as I might want to go variable weight and have heavier springs in certain locations.

Brilliant idea. The pinky's considerably weaker than the other fingers, so changing just those keys to 50g could be quite pleasant.

As far as that goes, are any standard switch springs compatible with these? The idea of creating the equivalent of an HE Realforce is pretty appealing.

Quote from: fohat.digs
Too many options for a group as opinionated as keyboard enthusiasts...

Indeed... People who emigrate from developing countries  to the U.S. and Canada are often overwhelmed the first time they walk into a supermarket. Art lovers often require hospitalization when they visit places like Florence and Venice for the first time.

This inspires me to offer the following advisory. When viewing this or the Massdrop page, please:

• Avoid caffeine and other stimulants

• Remain calm

• When necessary, repeat to yourself: "It's just a keyboard, it's just a keyboard..."

Quote from: fohat.digs
Personally, I want light springs and tactile switches. Bamboo would be fine since the screws don't show, but metal would be better. How's that?

You don't find it a tad ironic, wanting to add a bump to the smoothest switch technology ever? Isn't that like buying a Ferrari with an automatic transmission? (I couldn't resist using a metaphor that, exactly contrary to what we're talking about, implied that more effort was better.)

Quote from: zslane
I do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...

What do you base that on? Is it because the switches are so unusually smooth? Or is that a characteristic of these particular springs? If it's true, it may make the choice easier for most of us, as it implies the 50g springs feel considerably lighter too—and I don't think many of us would prefer a board that feels like it's under 40g.

We're featured in Tom's Hardware! http://www.tomshardware.com/news/xmit-hall-effect-keyboard-massdrop,33060.html

Oh man, this is really taking off. I just checked the MD page—over 700 boards reserved now, and it's going up as I watch. It's fun being in on keyboard history.  :?)
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 November 2016, 19:00:58 by ander »
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #251 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 18:41:40 »
That said, I wouldn't go full 70g springs as I already find MX blacks fatiguing on the fingers with prolonged use.

I do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...

And this is where I decided on getting the springs.  If those 50g springs end up feeling much too light, I've got the option of putting in the heavier springs later.  I am curious about how light they'll actually feel.  Perhaps I'll like the lighter springs. 

Offline zslane

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #252 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 19:05:28 »
Quote from: zslane
I do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...

What do you base that on? Is it because the switches are so unusually smooth? Or is that a characteristic of these particular springs? If it's true, it may make the choice easier for most of us, as it implies the 50g springs feel considerably lighter too—and I don't think many of us would prefer a board that feels like it's under 40g.

I'm basing it on statements that XMIT has made both in this forum thread and on the DT thread of the same name. The 50g spring is more like 35g and the 70g spring is more like 50g.

So yes, the 50g spring would be way too light, at least for me, especially since I want to put SA keycaps on, and I feel they would be far too heavy for such a light resistance. I tried putting SA keycaps on a Noppoo board that was around 35g (in my estimation) and I was constantly making typing errors because even the slightest bump of a nearby key would register an erroneous keystroke.

Offline ander

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #253 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 19:52:35 »
Quote from: zslane
I do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...

What do you base that on?...

I'm basing it on statements that XMIT has made both in this forum thread and on the DT thread of the same name...

I've looked through the threads here and there, and can't find any references to that. Any chance you can quote them or point us to them?

I do see this in the specs of the Tom's Hardware article:

Quote
Spring weights:
-50g (approx. 35g actuation)
-70g (approx. 50g actuation)

...though I don't really understand it. Isn't actuation weight the point here? What do the first weights even mean?

Maybe some of XMIT's prototype testers could add their impressions about switch weight, too—that'd be quite helpful.
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 November 2016, 20:14:20 by ander »
Amazing but true: Government policy makers get more of their information from keyboard-forum sigs than anywhere else!

Offline zslane

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #254 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 20:21:14 »
I think the basis for this is Hypersphere's post on the DT thread from 12-Nov:

Quote
@XMIT: Regarding the spring weights in the HE keyboard,

Hall Effect springs:

50 g: 35 g actuation

70 g: 50 g actuation

Cherry mx:

Red: 45 g actuation; ~ 55 g bottom-out

Black: 50 g actuation; ~ 80 g bottom-out

From these numbers, it would appear that the springs in the HE keyboard are fairly light. My interpretation is that if I find Cherry mx Red too light, I would find the HE 50 g springs much too light. It looks like the 70 g spring would give me something a bit heavier than Cherry mx Red but not as heavy as Cherry mx Black. If this interpretation is correct, I should go for the 70 g springs. Am I looking at this correctly?

Offline Erikdayo

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #255 on: Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:10:13 »
Joined the drop with the 61 key 70g. I'm curious about the 50g, but if 70g is closer to Red weight then I'd like to try it first. Plus the bamboo looks a lot nicer.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #256 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 19:27:37 »
Now the waiting game for the drop begins.  Looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

Offline saxophone

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #257 on: Wed, 23 November 2016, 04:16:50 »
How much work is required to replace the springs in the board? Is soldering tools required?

Offline Malachor

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #258 on: Wed, 23 November 2016, 08:39:35 »
How much work is required to replace the springs in the board? Is soldering tools required?
There's a download link to the manual on the massdrop page https://www.massdrop.com/buy/xmit-hall-effect-mechanical-keyboard, under the section on specs. It mentions the steps required.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #259 on: Thu, 24 November 2016, 08:33:32 »
Now the waiting game for the drop begins.  Looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

I'm looking very forward to getting my XMIT board too, kinda nervous about how I'll take to linear switches though. This will actually be the 1st mech with linear switches I have got for myself. When I first got into mech KBs I did give a few different switches a feel test on friend's boards or switch testers & found clicky/tactile or just tactile switches to be more satisfying. So I've stuck with them up till now. But I have never gave linears a fair shot & this seemed like the perfect board to do so with.
Clueboard, 100g lubed Cherry Whites / Gazzew66, 80g lubed MOD-Ms / S60-X RGB, 80g lubed Cherry Blacks (retooled) / Let's Split!, 80g lightly lubed Gateron Greens / Leopold FC660M, 80g lubed MOD-Ls / Tada68, lubed Cherry Tactile Greys / Pok3r, 150g lubed Gateron Clears (Cherry top housing) / MK Disco,  stock Gateron Blacks & 60g KBT browns / XMIT Hall Effect KB, 70g / Logitech DiNovo Edge, Perfectstroke Scissor switches (aka, really nice rubber domes)

Offline ander

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #260 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 00:33:16 »
I'm looking very forward to getting my XMIT board too, kinda nervous about how I'll take to linear switches though. This will actually be [my] 1st mech with linear switches.. I have never gave linears a fair shot & this seemed like the perfect board to do so with.

Indeed, if you're going to go linear, you may as well go really linear.

Your hesitation's understandable. However, I think it's hard for fans of keyboard technology to pass up a chance like this. There's something utterly geeky about switches that require no internal physical contact. It's also a good metaphor for how rarely geeks have physical contact with other people.

That wouldn't apply to Mr. Hall, though, whose smoothness with the ladies was legendary. It may very well have inspired his switch idea.
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 November 2016, 02:49:58 by ander »
Amazing but true: Government policy makers get more of their information from keyboard-forum sigs than anywhere else!

Offline jamster

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #261 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 04:43:25 »
I am holding off for 3 months in anticipation of the tactile model.


Same. Hall effect sounds intriguing, but I will only buy tactile boards. Linear is just weird.
Realforce 87u 55, KUL-ES87 Ergo Clear 65, RC930-87 55, Raptor K1 1800 Zealio 65, 1986 IBM Model M, 198? IBM Model M UK, Northgate Omnikey 101, IBM Thinkpad USB

Offline ander

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #262 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 16:22:23 »
Same. Hall effect sounds intriguing, but I will only buy tactile boards. Linear is just weird.

Of course you could just keep your eyes on the display to confirm you've pressed keys... Or is it more of an esthetic thing? In that respect, the idea of a MK that doesn't clatter does seem anti-thematic, like Steampunk stuff without rivets.
Amazing but true: Government policy makers get more of their information from keyboard-forum sigs than anywhere else!

Offline zslane

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #263 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 16:32:51 »
I certainly don't want a completely silent mech board, but I prefer if it only produces a soft, subtle sound rather than a grating clack. The refined thock-op sound of a "silenced" Topre switch is really nice, for instance.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #264 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 17:48:00 »
.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2016, 17:21:58 by fohat.digs »
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

Offline zslane

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #265 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 19:56:17 »
I'm a "bottom-out typist", by which I mean that I depress every key until I feel it bottoming out. I know that isn't the way to get optimum typing speed, but I type at nearly 90 wps as it is and I really don't need to type any faster than that for anything I do in life. I don't need tactile leaves or audible clicks to tell me I've typed a character, but I do like the feel of a Topre dome giving way as I bottom out. It is just satisfying somehow.

Having said that, I am a linear switch guy for the most part, and HE switches are the ultimate linear switch in my view. I will be bottoming out on those too, so I need them to be quiet (but not silent), and I'll get all the tactile feedback I need when the slider hits bottom.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #266 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 20:45:11 »
Honestly, a quiet linear keyboard is my goal.  I'm not a fan of lots of keyboard noise and don't really care for tactility in my keyboards.

Offline ander

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #267 on: Mon, 28 November 2016, 21:27:00 »
It's funny how differently we can feel about this stuff, isn't it? On the surface, you wouldn't think that clicks or bumps had anything to do with fast, accurate typing. It'd seem like the smoother the switch the better, because it'd be as fast and un-distracting as possible. But like most things involving people, there are lots of less obvious factors. That's what makes all this so interesting.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #268 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 07:55:49 »
.


« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2016, 17:22:20 by fohat.digs »
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

Offline davkol

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #269 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:00:22 »
you wouldn't think that clicks or bumps had anything to do with fast, accurate typing.
I disagree. With tactile feedback, you are notified that you have activated this letter and can immediately move on to the next one.
Maybe if you type, like, 20 wpm.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #270 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 18:00:11 »

you wouldn't think that clicks or bumps had anything to do with fast, accurate typing.


I disagree. With tactile feedback, you are notified that you have activated this letter and can immediately move on to the next one.

A fast typist can avoid the wasted time and motion that occurs after the event has been registered.
Clearly, a person accustomed to his own keyboard will eventually learn how far the press needs to go, but it is trial and error.



Were that the case for everyone, I would expect to be faster on a switch like MX blues.  I am, in fact, slowest on blues and significantly faster on rubber domes, browns, and reds.  Tactility outside of bottoming out means nothing to me other than a disruption in the flow of my typing.  Oddly enough, I'm significantly faster on buckling springs than on MX blues for whatever reason though I still find them a bit disruptive.  Can't say how I am on other tactile switches as I've only tried the above and never really took a typing test on my SGI Granite board mostly due to finding it fatiguing to use even for an hour or two of gaming.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #271 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 20:40:46 »
.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2016, 17:22:41 by fohat.digs »
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #272 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 20:58:38 »

Were that the case for everyone, I would expect to be faster on a switch like MX blues.


MX blues are the worst of the lot because of their incredibly irritating noise. Jailhoused blue or green MX is a good switch because the actuation point is raised quite a bit, but I don't own any Cherry keyboards (unless you count the MX black with O-rings that my teenage son loves).

Although I use buckling springs and often bottom out, my fastest typing is certainly with tactile or clicky Alps because of their high actuation point.


Not sure that simply fixing the noise would help blues.  Even without hearing them, they're the worst of the lot for me.  The tactility of them annoys me as much as the sound.  I find the actuation disruptive to my typing.  Annoying sound is easy to type though.  Annoying tactility and my WPM drops fast.  Haven't tried greens and, given my dislike of browns and tactile switches in general, have very little desire to try them.  Beam springs and capacitive buckling springs are about the only tactile switches I have any curiosity to try, honestly.  Even then, it would be more out of curiosity than anything.

Tried the SGI granite and turns out I'm about as fast with it as with my fastest typing, but I can't sustain it for long before pain sets in.  Not a daily use keyboard for me, though the kids want to use it more.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #273 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 07:19:20 »
.

« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2016, 17:23:02 by fohat.digs »
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #274 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 16:21:17 »
Jailhousing Cherry switches totally changes them. The noise is reduced greatly and made far less annoying, and the tactility is smoothed and raised to occur much higher up in the stroke.

I have tested them but not ever owned one, I was hoping to get one from Gutz last spring but he stiffed me.


My solution is even easier - MX reds.  I've got relatively quiet switches with no tactility which is what I want anyway. 

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #275 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 16:32:09 »
.


« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2016, 17:23:22 by fohat.digs »
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #276 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 17:16:29 »

My solution is even easier - MX reds.  I've got relatively quiet switches with no tactility which is what I want anyway. 

Jailhoused blue and green are totally different from linear switches.



I agree which is why I use MX reds.  I much prefer linear switches to tactile switches. 


Offline saxophone

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #277 on: Fri, 02 December 2016, 02:15:13 »
How much effort is required to change the springs? Is desoldering required in the process?

Offline davkol

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #278 on: Fri, 02 December 2016, 12:06:09 »
How much effort is required to change the springs? Is desoldering required in the process?
It's been answered here or at DT. Soldering isn't required, and the process takes a few hours IIRC.

Offline Data

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #279 on: Thu, 02 February 2017, 08:17:07 »
I assume this GB was affected by the Chinese New Year festivities.  Are we still on track for February?  People are waiting for an official update from Massdrop but I suspect it will be the typical canned response.  Some details would be appreciated.

Offline XMIT

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #280 on: Thu, 02 February 2017, 09:59:58 »
Shipping was on track for before Chinese New Year before the factory found a quality control issue. Now it's still the middle of Chinese New Year. I'm working with Massdrop to get an update to everyone as quickly as possible. I know everyone wants their keyboards!

Offline Data

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #281 on: Thu, 02 February 2017, 10:45:55 »
Shipping was on track for before Chinese New Year before the factory found a quality control issue. Now it's still the middle of Chinese New Year. I'm working with Massdrop to get an update to everyone as quickly as possible. I know everyone wants their keyboards!

Is it bad?  :-[

Offline XMIT

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #282 on: Thu, 02 February 2017, 11:09:02 »
Minor, maybe 1-2 week delay. There will be official communication from Massdrop about this in the next few days.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #283 on: Thu, 02 February 2017, 11:22:24 »
That's not too bad a delay, then.

Offline Data

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #284 on: Thu, 02 February 2017, 12:00:02 »
Yeah, I'd say if that's the worst thing that happens then we're way ahead of most other GBs.  :P

Offline hodgeac

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #285 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 10:28:03 »
Hey XMIT,
Whats the difference between the keyboards in this drop and these on alibaba?
https://acepads.en.alibaba.com/product/60576154546-801916463/Hall_Effect_Mechanical_Keyboards.html
It looks like they're just offering the exact keyboard at half the price.

Offline XMIT

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #286 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 10:38:33 »
Hi hodgeac - I've answered this question several times. To reiterate:

1. Boards ordered through me, with XMIT Keyboards branding, go through an additional QA process and are supported and warranted by me and Massdrop. I can't promise anything about boards not ordered through me with regard to configuration, programmability, choice of stabilizers, etc.

2. By ordering through me you're supporting future development for things like clicky and tactile switches, programmable firmware, and new layouts.

3. That price doesn't include shipping.

Offline hodgeac

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #287 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 10:53:44 »
Thanks. I went ahead and posted your reply into the comments on massdrop. While I'm happy that QA is being done to make sure we're getting keyboards not riddled with issues, I'm not impressed that the key cap fitment issue is being treated as a new problem when it was identified months ago with the first batch of boards. I'm sure you assumed that the manufacturer was going to fix that issue prior to this production run. Well anyway, thanks for your hard work trying to keep them honest. Hopefully we'll get some nice keyboards when this is all done.

Offline dante

  • Posts: 2551
Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #288 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 10:55:17 »
2. By ordering through me you're supporting future development for things like ...

Fully dampened silencing por favor.


Offline XMIT

  • formerly jsoltren
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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #289 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 11:27:52 »
Hi hodgeac - I just read through your comments on Massdrop. I'll respond there as well.

I’m sorry to hear you are not happy with this update but it is the truth. We’re not trying to hide anything from anyone.

The keyboards are mostly done and were scheduled to get on a flight on the 28th, just before the Chinese New Year holiday. The manufacturer caught a quality control issue with key fitment with not enough time before the holiday to fix it, so, they missed the flight.

The holiday is no joke: if you’re not aware, it is the largest human migration on the planet, with nearly a billion people going home for the holidays. The country shuts down! It’s not like this snuck up on us, either. The original estimates were very conservative figuring delays including this holiday and sure enough we’re delayed by it.

I’ll hear back on Monday or Tuesday from the factory once they all return and start things going again.

If I understand the issue correctly, the problem is that one mold for the key switch sliders is slightly undersized and produces inconsistent parts. They thought they had fixed this. They will work to identify and retire the mold, shoot new parts and repair everyone’s keyboards before shipment.

(Personally, I use a little piece of plastic bag material as a shim for any keyboard - these or others - when the sliders are undersized, but, better to have it right from the factory.)

After this, here is what you can expect:

- keyboards get on a plane from China to New Jersey;
- Massdrop’s warehouse in New Jersey breaks down the order and sends packages and tracking numbers;
- you get a package with a keyboard.

Each of these steps take about a week, and, are about the same for any Massdrop order!

hodgeac, I think that some of your expectations are based on the fact that this is a large, well established operation. It’s not. The manufacturer is a small company working hard to ship 1000+ keyboards to my exacting quality control requirements. I’ve been working with them since June of 2016 to work out lots of kinks that are documented in various forum posts.

It is true that the manufacturer will try to sell versions of the board with my proposed improvements on the open market. This is something I cannot really control and is what happens when doing business with China. But please do realize that we’re also actively working on new product.

Please let me reiterate: by buying here - and being part of the group buy - you’re not just buying a keyboard, you’re actively supporting the development of future revisions to the board.

I can appreciate that delays don’t make anyone happy. I’m waiting on various parts and pieces from this order that are delayed just like yours, and, these delays get in the way of new product development. But if I haven’t convinced you by now that we’re doing everything we can, then, I’m not sure I’ll be able to convince you at all.

Regardless, I hope your keyboard arrives in February and that you love it!

XMIT

Offline hodgeac

  • Posts: 3
Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #290 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 11:54:21 »
Thanks XMIT, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond in a level headed way to my pissed off posts. ;D
I know none of these things ever go exactly to plan. It's not easy working with people thousands of miles away with a language barrier. Believe me, I know the New Year is no joke. That's part of why I have a hard time believing we're going to see these keyboards anytime soon. I guess my main issue is that communication from Massdrop in regards to timelines has been iffy at best. I took exception to the wording of the last update starting with "As you may know" (How would we know? We don't get timely updates) and ending every update with "sooner if something comes up", but not following through on that promise. Something came up. It came up sometime before Chinese New Year. We weren't told until it was already 4 days into the New Year (on scheduled update day). That's the main rub for me. Poor communication when it comes to delays. Delays that really shouldn't have happened since these issues were discovered before the GB started.
Anyway, thanks again for your efforts. Like I said before, hopefully this all works out. I would like the keyboard sooner rather than later, but if it's later I want to be better kept up to date on why it's later.

Offline XMIT

  • formerly jsoltren
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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #291 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 12:11:57 »
"As you may know" is something I wrote in. I mentioned on deskthority that the keyboards would be shipping soon. It took a couple of days of back and forth to figure out just how we wanted to word this.

I'll post something next week when I hear back. But I'm also traveling for my day job so please forgive any delays. :thumb:

Offline dante

  • Posts: 2551
Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #292 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 12:20:24 »
This delay is nothing compared to what you find in the Group Buy section.

Basically as soon as they take your money it's radio silence; sometimes for years.

XMIT is the MVP.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #293 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 16:39:57 »

It is true that the manufacturer will try to sell versions of the board with my proposed improvements on the open market.

But please do realize that we’re also actively working on new product.

you’re not just buying a keyboard, you’re actively supporting the development of future revisions to the board.


As far as the possibility of getting a tactile version with lighter springs in my sweaty hands - will there be another group buy/massdrop cycle that will start when this one is fulfilled (presumably with a shorter time frame since the big stuff will not change), or do you think that they will simply start selling them retail?

And the larger question: are XMITs manufactured to higher standards than their retail pieces?

Thanks for your monumental efforts on this!
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

Offline XMIT

  • formerly jsoltren
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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #294 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 16:44:46 »
And the larger question: are XMITs manufactured to higher standards than their retail pieces?

Given that they're taking my quality requirements and turning that into the new standards for their retail pieces, I think the answer is yes. :P

I'll typically be at least one step ahead of whatever else they're offering. I could demand exclusivity but that doesn't seem to benefit anyone but me.

Offline happylacquer

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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #295 on: Fri, 03 February 2017, 23:12:00 »
Can these be bought in the usa not via massdrop?

Offline XMIT

  • formerly jsoltren
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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #296 on: Sat, 04 February 2017, 02:21:01 »
Can these be bought in the usa not via massdrop?

Not at the moment, and not unless I carry inventory or find a distribution partner. Go ask mechanicalkeyboards.com, I already did and never heard back.

Offline XMIT

  • formerly jsoltren
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Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #297 on: Thu, 16 February 2017, 08:02:49 »
Hi friends - I've got some updates. First, the keyboard reworks are proceeding nicely. We're hoping to get all the boards on a plane to the US in the next couple of days. So, let's say that these will ship around the end of the month, considering the aforementioned import and distribution delays.

I asked the factory to send me the very first boards off the production line for last minute verification. They arrived on Monday. I'm happy to say that everything is in order. Some photos are here: https://goo.gl/photos/WdVukVhhnLXdj1xKA .

There were some questions about the firmware programming tool. I've received a beta copy of the tool. It is able to offer key remapping of the main (not Fn) layer at the moment. I'm still working with the manufacturer and their firmware sub-contractor to make improvements to the tool.

One local user noted a fitment issue when flipping the space bar. I believe this is a key cap issue and not a keyboard issue. I'm still working to root cause this issue. I don't fully understand it yet.

Thank you so much for your patience! Hopefully you'll have your boards in hand in the next couple of weeks.

Offline dante

  • Posts: 2551
Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #298 on: Thu, 16 February 2017, 08:37:12 »
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« Last Edit: Thu, 16 February 2017, 12:33:03 by dante »

Offline dwolvin

  • Posts: 21
  • Retired squid in SanDog.
Re: Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions
« Reply #299 on: Thu, 16 February 2017, 18:11:44 »
Thanks for the update!  They look good, are you going to post more picks here or the other thread?